#tlok discourse

[hikaaa-bi]

ranking TLOK relationships bc i'm bored.

mako x asami (masami?? idk what the ship name is): bad but not horrible. they were a very generic vanilla couple who immediately broke up because of korra. they had no chemistry whatsoever and mako cheating on asami got rid of any potential that was there.

makorra: ugh. i don't like this ship. despite all of mako's flaws, i think korra was the toxic one in this relationship. she constantly kept blowing up at mako when he was just trying to help and support her. she takes out all her frustrations on him, barges into his office and destroys it bc he was doing his job. smh mako deserved better. (i know he was kind of an asshole too but at least he got called out for it; also I'm not a korra hater, i just don't like her in s2)

bopal: i hate bolin okay. he's not interesting, he's not funny and his sexual harrasment towards ginger is played for laughs. i can't ship this character with anyone because he keeps making mistakes and never gets called out for it. besides, even if he wasn't such an ass, bopal was a boring ship anyway. it had no substance to it, it's just "boy meets girl and they fall in love". opal isn't a very interesting character by herself either.

zhurrick: i regret to admit that i found this ship cute at first. but looking back, varrick treated zhu li like shit and never gets a proper redemption. he just delivers a half-assed apology and proposes to her, and she says yes. yay, problem solved! zhu li deserves better.

eska x bolin: walking red flag. this was another case of the show using a serious issue as a joke. eska is actively abusive and possessive towards bolin and it's just treated as "haha crazy girlfriend". bolin gets reprimanded for not breaking up with her sooner? as much as i dislike bolin, this isn't right either. men being abused is a very real thing, and should be taken seriously. it's not funny and it's not pathetic.

jinora x kai: it's alright. not bad, though we don't get to see enough of them. but from what we see, they seem to care about each other and work well as a couple.

korrasami: lots of potential but it was underwhelming. i get that it was restricted, so i can't blame the writers here. they did do a good job of writing a believable friendship between korra and asami, so it's not much of a stretch to imagine them dating.

[justanotherthrowaway1950]

The Red Lotus and Azula Would Be Enemies

Note: When I say Red Lotus in this post, I am referring to Zaheer’s four man team unless otherwise noted.

Azula and the Red Lotus are arguably the Gaang and Krew’s most iconic villains, beloved for challenging their respective Team Avatar not just physically, but mentally as well with their tactics and mind games.

That and, as of the time of this post, they are the ones who have come closest to killing their era’s Avatar, with Azula actually succeeding in (temporarily) killing Aang.

So it is no surprise that fans often theorize what would happen if they ever teamed up, either in a what-if situation with all five of them in their primes, or an elderly Azula teaming with the Red Lotus after the events of TLOK or in a AU, and for good reason.

Imagine P’Li and Azula applying pressure using their unprecedented control over combustionbending and lightningbending respectively.

Imagine all the combos Ming Hua and Azula could pull off with their deadly and precise bending.

Imagine Ghazan and Azula slowly but surely overwhelming opponents with their mastery over their rare sub-element bending arts of lavabending and smokebending respectively.

(Yes, this post assumes that the smoke that Azula and the Fire Warriors produced while masquerading as the Kemurikage in Smoke and Shadow was generated through smokebending.)

(Moreover, that smokebending is a rare sub-element of firebending considering no else before or after the events of Smoke and Shadow have been shown to (purposefully) generate smoke, let alone with the control that Azula and the Fire Warriors display.)

And imagine all the dastardly plots and mind games Zaheer and Azula would concoct as they meticulously plot to take down their shared foe(s).

However, there is one massive problem that would prevent the Red Lotus and Azula from ever teaming up: the fact that they would be moral enemies.

This is because the Red Lotus are anarchists who kill monarchs and loathe the concept of states, let authoritarianism. Meanwhile, Azula is a genocidal, colonizing, authoritarian monarch who believes in the divine right to rule.

(Yes, Azula is genocidal since, regardless of who you think actually came up with the plan to genocide the Earth Kingdom, the fact that Azula was eager to join Ozai in his failed offensive, and was upset only because he told her she couldn’t join, is proof that is she more than ok with genocide.) 

Therefore, if Azula and the Red Lotus were to ever meet each other, they wouldn’t join forces, but instead would try to kill each other, viewing the other as the embodiment of everything they fight against.

Hell! Considering how diametrically opposed they are to each other, they might even join whatever version of Team Avatar is present to take out their opponent.

“Ok, you bring up a good point about how their diametrically opposed ideologies would make them natural enemies. But you don’t think they don’t have enough pragmatism to temporarily join forces and take out their shared opponent(s) before turning on each other?”

Azula does considering she was able to work with Long Feng and the Gaang to overthrow the Earth Kingdom and find Ursa respectively, provided she isn’t actively psychotic of course, but not the Red Lotus.

This is because the Red Lotus not only spent over a decade in their tortious prison cells and didn’t rat out anyone involved with the broader Red Lotus organization, but also didn’t rat out Unalaq, who betrayed them and the broader Red Lotus organization.

So no, the Red Lotus and Azula would not be able to overcome their deeply-held ideological differences to form a pragmatic partnership.

“But wouldn’t they be able to realize that they are natural allies, even for a temporary amount of time, considering they both want to end the Avatar cycle and commit mass murder?”

Ugh, as much as it disgusts me to type this out, Azula and the Red Lotus want to end the Avatar cycle and commit mass murder for different, totally incompatible reasons.

Azula wants to genocide any group of people who refuse to recognize the Fire Nation’s (supposed) innate superiority and submit to their rule, and therefore wants to end the Avatar cycle, or at least kill the current Avatar, because the Avatar is the only being capable of stopping the Fire Nation from imposing its will on the world.

Meanwhile, even assuming the Red Lotus is aware of Vaatu’s desire to eliminate humanity, they want to release Vaatu and reopen the spirit portals, regardless of how many casualties occur, because they think it will give people true freedom, and thus lead to a better world.

Accordingly, they seek to end the Avatar cycle because the Avatar, by their nature as the Avatar of the Spirit of Light and Peace, would be diametrically opposed to their plan and never stop fighting them, even if they successfully release Vaatu and reopen the spirit portals.

Or in other words, Azula and the Red Lotus’ reasons for trying to end the Avatar cycle and attempting to commit mass murder are tied to their diametrically opposed worldviews.

“But Azula from Smoke and Shadow onward creates chaos with her schemes of hers. So maybe her and the Red Lotus aren’t as diametrically opposed as you make them out to be.”

Even if the means of achieving her goals are chaotic due to her lacking mental health, everything Azula has done post-Sozin’s Comet is consistent with her being a genocidal, authoritarian monarch who believes in the divine right to rule.

For it is explicitly said multiple times in the comics and extended lore that she wants to either turn Zuko into a tyrant like their forefathers before them, or if that fails, retake the throne so she can sheer the Fire Nation back in the direction it was under Sozin, Azulon, and Ozai.

Therefore, all learning about Azula’s efforts to return the Fire Nation to its former “glory” would do in the eyes of the Red Lotus is turn her from a despicable tyrant and oppressor who needs to be punished for her crimes to a mad dog who needs to be put down for the sake for freedom.

But in no case would it make Azula and the Red Lotus any less antagonistic towards each other.

So to conclude, even though on the surface they would seem to be natural allies, Azula and the Red Lotus’ deep ideological differences rooted in the fact that Azula is a genocidal, authoritarian monarchist while the Red Lotus are spiritually attuned anarchists would make them natural enemies. 

In fact, the real question about a potential Azula-Red Lotus team up should not be how they would work together, but instead who would be driven to ally with the version of Team Avatar present to take down the other.

[pleasehitmewithabus]

No offense but like, way to be wrong.. the most telling thing about this post is that you specified "I could not care about x" yeah pal, cool but it's not really about you or a statue for you is it?

I feel like it's (it being the lack of a statue honoring the greatest water bender of all time) definitely something that has a Lot of meaning when you look at who katara was in ATLA?? I mean it's all very well and fine for someone to like how kataras character ended up in the sequel series but let's be real it wasn't very representative of who she was originally... Katara would have Loved a statue of herself erected to honor the things she did and the people she helped (source: The Painted Lady episode in og series) and more than that she Deserved it. The problem the fandom has with no statue is that it's indicative of a bigger issue in tlok, which is that Kataras character was completely nerfed!!! They turned her into a mother (arguably not a great one) who became a healer (arguably not at all what she would have wanted originally) that had next to nothing to do with any real change other than the whole blood bending trials (where she is mentioned in passing but not actually shown) and was Essentially a Trophy for the avatar... I mean come on, let's not pretend like this is in depth media literacy, this is surface level analysis man

i feel as if the atla fandom argues about a lot of meaningless shit but one of the biggest (and MOST inane) points of contention to me is that....katara didn't get a statue in lok. like. i could go on about how katara's presence in lok was way more meaningful than anyone else in the gaang appearing and how she was a steady solid presence for korra who had far more of an impact than just a quick punchy fight scene and was actually compassionate and skilled and her political presence sets SO much of legend of korra's worldbuilding up and how the fandom is really notorious for reducing katara to a poor helpless victim as much as possible because she had a complex and significant and emotional character arc that didn't always have the most "classic" #girlboss plot points but the truth is like. its a statue? its a fucking statue??? a fucking hunk of rock im sorry??? i could not care less about a piece of rock over a character's actual presence?

[soggystyrofoam]

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

“catra is a complex poc” fuck that. here are some ACTUAL poc animated characters who are just as, if not more complex than catra.

grace monroe (infinity train) • black american

connie maheshwaran (steven universe) • indian-american

katara (avatar the last airbender) • inuk

wolf (kipo and the age of wonderbeasts) • black american

suhara/shadowsan (carmen sandiego) • japanese

korra (the legend of korra) • inuk

jesse cosay (infinity train) • indigenous (apache)

lars barriga (steven universe) • filipino

azula (avatar the last airbender) • japanese

ryan akagi (infinity train) • japanese-canadian

luz noceda (the owl house) • afro-dominican american

(there are a lot more, so i'll be making a part 2!)

[star-pocalypse]

Breaking News: girl who spent years defending Katara sees the Seven Havens announcement and has a hysterical breakdown as she realizes she's going back in the arena

More at 6

[allgremlinyaps]

never make a Korra live action never make a Korra live action never make a Korra live action never make a K

[sjbattleangel]

Special thanks to @agramuglia for inspiring this awful joke.

Everyone: "Steven Universe/She-Ra/Avatar: The Last Airbender/The Legend Of Korra/Star Wars: The Last Jedi/The Last Of Us/The Last Of Us Part II/The MCU/G. Willow Wilson's Ms. Marvel run/Gail Simone's Birds Of Prey run/The Dark Crystal: Age Of Resistance/The Persona games/The Sandman/X-Men/The Simpsons/Everything by Dan Slott/Everything by Tom Taylor/Everything by Jason Aaron/Everything by Donny Cates/Everything by Brian Michael Bendis/Everything by Devin Grayson/Everything by Jonathan Hickman/Everything by Scott Snyder/Everything by James Tynion IV/Everything by Joshua Williamson, etc are anti-intellectual, regressive, pro-status quo, far-right Trojan Horses pretending to be "diverse and progressive" just so they can take advantage of naïve leftists."

Me: "No. That's Velma".

[matt0044]

A video was made to generate thoughtful discussions rather than be "Avatar/Korra bad" and TheStoryteller's legit enough in my book. It's called:

Avatar’s Hidden Fear of Real Change

My take?

To me, Korra actually does take things away from her enemies. Amon's was a more personal one in how her resolve and confidence would be challenged in seasons to come. However, Unalaq would lead Korra to think that maybe the spirit portals should remain open and takes his points about the world losing connection with the spirits in its modern forms. Zaheer might've been bad about it buuuuuuut he still killed the Earth Queen (with a very real fallout) and forced Korra to reckon if the world needed, well, her.

Now Kuvira has a point about the potentially stolen land buuuuut it was meant to be a symbol of peace with the Earth Kingdom involved. Furthermore, she still rebuilt the Earth Kingdom into something very... dictatorial as the Earth Empire. Heck, Korra sparing her and talk her down once she was depowered feels like natural extension of Aang vs. Ozai.

Personally, I feel like the comics could stand to be adapted as a new season with us seeing Kuvira go free and reform herself but I digress.

Now in terms of writing and production crew, at the very worst, it's more the blind leading the blind. Blind to their potential biases and not so well aged attitudes. Fact of the matter is that none of us are as woke as we believe to be.

That's the benign truth. But even then, I still stand by my reading.

I think Korra’s stance is more, “Changes to the Status Quo will be ugly but necessary as they expose what needs to be rethought.” Amon’s takeover of Republic City led to them restructuring the council into a presidency, one with a non-bender who could see the perspectives of those Amon enamored.

However, that still led to an imperfect society with a president concerned with reputation and polls. Thus not the blanket solution as it may’ve felt.

Each villain after exposes something off about Korra’s era but they seek to overhaul the world overnight. The truth is that when society is this entrenched in these systems, a sudden revolution is going to cause a lot more problems in the aftermath. Kuvira’s Earth Empire was a knock off effect from Zaheer’s killing of the Earth Queen after all.

Maybe it’s the recent years but I’ve come to realize that there won’t be a neat and tidy society reform that will be all happily ever after. Prejudices linger like a bad stain and while it’s important to get it out, it may not be for many generations until it gets out.

Whole reason why Trump was ever nominated was because he spoke to the people who didn’t like how things were changing like legalized gay marriages and more scrutiny put on cops post-Ferguson. He spoke to those who wanted to say the quiet part outloud.

But is it really portraying the systems and status quos as a full on good thing as some try to claim if corruption is still present?

In Season 1, we have the corrupt Tarrlok and the rather complicit council. Especially with how he had the police be more hard on non-benders out past curfew who weren't causing any harm. While one can make the argument they don't do more with it (time limits on episodes aside for now), there is an acknowledgement that he's using the corruption in Republic City's flawed systems.

At best, the show doesn't portray change as impossible but really hard and how the anger it inspires can be taken advantage of. It shows the systems maybe in too neutral of a light but Avatar Korra has frequently been shown to fly in the face of authority:

-going vigilante on the Triads and getting arrested for it.

-Going against Tarrlok, especially when her friends are arrested because of it.

-Defying the Earth Queen's authority and freeing the airbenders even if her laws permit her to do with them as she wishes.

My read on her character post-Book 1 is that she's "play by the rules unless said rules are bullshit." As Avatar, she learns that she has to be responsible more during social unrest but that doesn't mean that she'll stand by if she's needed.

I don't deny that a story about industrialization in Avatar's world would be worth exploring. But that feels like a conudrum that the Gaang had to contend with well before Korra's time with how the comics show the gears of industry spreading out of the Fire Nation.

See, the mistake people make about Amon is that he's less a civil leader and more a cult leader taking advantage of non-benders' discontent. He believes in his own hype but he sees himself as king of the castle and all others as his loyal subjects. Even so, the Equalists do what they do out of a desire to change things. Hence, why the reveal of Noatak's bending dissolved his cult of personality.

There's also how Zaheer and Kuvira are shown as two sides of the same coin with anarchism and fascism. Varrick represent capitalism and he only ever remotely becomes a "good guy" when he's stripped of his fortune, escaping Republic City to start over in Zaofu.

I could reccommend a video essay I like but honestly, I recommend returning to the show proper. It's there on Netflix if you got it. I think people, be they blind Korra haters or critics that are a bit more honest, haven't truly sat with the show with a rewatch. It's worth really seeing what the show overall is saying for oneself.

I also feel that some underestimate how much East-Asian culture in infused in the show. Though Bryan and Mike are caucasian, they've very much worked to make sure they respect the culture that Avatar's world is inspired by. It's worth delving into the behind the scenes info. The artbook's cool.

[hellixodev]

it is my personal belief that NOT ALL art/media is political...but saying ATLA/Korra isn't political is just so objectively wrong. Despite it being a kids show, ATLA generates endless discussion on irl parallels.

Everyone knows Korra comments on political themes consistently and all the main conflicts/antagonists resemble irl political ideologies and movements.

Altho ATLA has a lot more of the fun adventure to it, especially season 1...the entire conflict of the show is driven by politics and war. Sozin deciding to invade the other nations because "the fire nation is experiencing great progress and we should 'share' it" is the most overtly political motivation and it's what kicks off the entire conflict of the show, affecting almost every character's backstory.

Jet?? The entire Ba Sing Se arc?? The Air nomads?? Aang's entire backstory?? I mean, in a way the entire finale is like "does Ozai deserve the death penalty?"

Like I understand not wanting to be challenged with political themes sometimes in media you like because it's escapism for you too (real world is hell). been there, but in that case that's on you to not engage. ...but when people are like "guys stop making everything about politics in avatar show." Um?? No??

[moondustgleam]

Honestly the virulent korra haters are full of red flags for me. Why do you hate an (admittedly kinda) mediocre show so much? Why do you dedicate so many hours of your finite life to a whole ass community of people who get together solely for the purpose of dunking on a fictional woman who has no negative bearing on the real world? Why are you so obsessed with atlas "perfection" that anything even slightly disappointing from the creators feels like a personal attack? (That applies to the dragon prince too) If you don't like korra just pretend it doesn't exist my guy. Don't like don't watch. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. I promise you can find happiness in something other than rewatching Lily Orchard

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

korra 🤝 mabel

being hated by fans for being manipulated and taken advantage of by a villain

[aperture-of-bullshit]

atla trending is never a good sign. do not be fooled by atla trending. do not click on the tag expecting news or even some cool art. It WILL be shipping discourse. It WILL be people rehashing the Same Exact bullshit that they have been arguing about over and over for the last almost two decades. And you give exactly as many shits today as you gave back then.

[juanitasupreme]

Korra is truly THAT bitch because why there are so many discourse to diminish her when the live action isn't even about her

[allgremlinyaps]

also while I'm in a poking-the-beehive mood, I will at some point have to write a little meta blurb about the take that the creators of atla/tlok had a "fetishistic obsession" with "brutalizing" Korra. look. this is actually some very old 2010s discourse and while its a concern that I take seriously when people bring it up, I just dont think it holds much water. As someone for whom Korra is, like, THE character I'm protective about, I promise I'm super sensitive to any hint of mistreatment of her and... I think there really is a fundamental difference between how Korra and her struggles are treated in this show and how people like say COUGH Joss Whedon COUGH HACK treat female characters and their suffering... I dont have time to get into it tonight cus I need to go to bed so instead I'm just gonna let this fester here unaddressed like so many of my other possibly divisive posts LOL...

but like when I saw that discourse cropping up again in *2024* and VERBATIM to how it was said in 2013... . lol no... I'm not 11 anymore I can actually voice my opinions on this coherently now sdhshs (hopefully)