#anyway i do love jason in his red hood era

[roseworth]

what direction do you think they should have gone in with jason? as in where should he be now in terms of people and what he's doing

i think winick had it exactly right green arrow #69-72 and batman & robin #23-25. he was a villain but he had a Method and a Purpose. and usually that purpose was just to fuck with batman. i loooove it when hes a villain and hes very clearly doing bad things, but hes not just indiscriminately killing people. hes doing it for a reason, hes still doing the same thing he was doing in utrh by controlling the drug trade, and even when hes doing the right thing hes being an asshole about it

i especially love the ga issues because jason doesnt even talk to batman but bruce KNOWS what hes doing and he knows its about him. i love the bruce & jason post-utrh dynamic where they've both pretty much said everything they have to say and neither of them is changing their position, so now jason is just starting fires to get attention. "ok bruce you dont want to talk to me? thats fine. ill just follow you to star city then psychologically torture a teenage girl then blow her up in front of you" icon! i forgive him! i think its so fun when red hood is a member of batman's rogues gallery and bruce feels bad every time he fights him but also he kinda cant stand him since he knows jason is only doing it to mess with him and its working. but also jason is a Greater Good person so he DOES end up working with the bats sometimes just because theyre also working on the good side

anyways the ideal bruce & jason dynamic to me is "the love was there and it made everything so much worse" because jason is doing everything for bruces attention because he loves him and wants him to care about him but hes not willing to budge on his own morals and neither is bruce. and bruce loves jason so he doesnt want to arrest him or put him in danger but also hes killing people and doing terrible things and bruce is batman so he feels obligated to. yk. stop him. and as much as they both love each other they do not like each other at all

in my mind jason doesnt really care about any of the other bats besides dick & babs just because he knew them before he died so hes willing to hang out with them but they Do Not want to see him. like in brothers in blood when jason goes hiiiii dick <3 lets hang out <3333 and dick is constantly suppressing the cain instinct. he never really talks to babs pre52 i think theyre interactions would be very similar in that jason goes hey babs ur so cool <33 and she says jason get the fuck away from me or im activating the bomb in your helmet <3

but also with steph even though he didnt know her pre-death,, i think he would like her. i can imagine him doing something very similar to what he did with mia, basically finding her and going "quit your vigilante career. join my emo band" but i think she would end up being a lot more receptive to it than mia was ! like im thinking batgirl 2009 era steph so she would not be on board with the idea of joining him since things were going well with team batgirl, but i also think that any interaction between the two of them in that era would go well and end with them getting along :)

as for everyone else. i dont think he would care about any of them. theyre just kinda collateral damage in his war with bruce. like he gets involved with them sometimes just because of their proximity to bruce, or like i said earlier that he works with them sometimes because he cares about the greater good so is willing to help them when necessary. also honorable mention to aoifa's headcanon that jason doesnt actually know tims name because he just does not care. thats canon to me

so yeah in conclusion: he should be a morally grey villain that does what he does either for the greater good, or to fuck with batman, or both. and he has complicated relationships with all of them bc he likes bruce dick and babs but also kinda hates all of them and they like but also hate him too. and the rest of them he doesn't really give a shit about

[dclovesdanny]

Dcxdp

The song Monster from Adventure Time with Dead on Main. (My own idea)

Danny was reborn into the Dc verse(he was still a halfa, just needed a kickstart to his powers) and ended up dating Jason. They broke up not long before Ethiopia because Danny transformed after an accident and thought that Jason recoiled in disgust and fear, so he ran. Jason was just confused and scared that Danny was hurt, but he didn’t find Danny before he died.

Flash forward to after the Red Hood Era. Danny is summoned by a cult, and he ends up seeing Jason again. He freaks out and runs again, but they get trapped together and Jason just ends up rambling about how much he still loves Danny and doesn’t want to lose him again.

The Batfam destroys the circle before Danny can respond, sending Danny away. Jason mopes and is sad, but eventually he has to go to a bar for some suspicions of the singer being a siren .

The minute he hears the voice, he turns his head and sees Danny, who keeps staring at him as he sings the song. Danny ends the song with a bow, and jumps down to Jason, nervous and unsure. Jason surges forward and kisses him, and holds him tight, promising he would never let go again.

Okay now I want someone to actually write this.

Anyway, I’m going to be doing song prompts, where I take a song and a ship and mix them together in my head. I will be taking requests, so please ask me, but I’m also going to do some of my own ideas. Also, I’m not reusing songs unless I really think it can work.

So, please request songs and ships?

[jazzadraws]

UTRH era red hood come back home 💔

my red hood hot take is that he should still be an occupational villain/anti-hero that leans more toward the villainous side 🫢

One of his lines in the UTRH comic is “Death will come to those who deserve death, and death may come to those who stand in my way of doing what’s right.” And i love it so much because he isn’t just some guy who kills ‘bad’ guys and spares the good, he literally will kill anyone (including good people!!) if it means he can accomplish his goals. It makes him 1000x more interesting as a character than whatever DC has going on with him rn.

I also love the bit where Jay asks Bruce what he did wrong and Bruce responds “murder” and Jason gets quite upset with it and says he’s killed but never murdered… LIKE??? thats such a cool concept to explore !! that he doesn’t see himself killing ‘bad’ people as “murder” because it simply isn’t a crime to him or perhaps he doesn’t even see them as human beings…

Anyway i got a bit carried away there 💀

sorry for not uploading as much recently !! work has been beating me up and i literally trapped my arm between a wall and a cage but alas the drawing pen calls my name

[pluckyredhead]

☕️judd winick

Judd Winick has written some very very good comics and some very very bad comics and a lot of comics that fall somewhere in between. Which I guess is true of everyone and not that helpful of an answer, lol.

He is hands down the best writer Jason has ever had - Under the Red Hood and Lost Days are excellent. Superman/Shazam: First Thunder is wonderful. His Green Lantern is largely very good. His Green Arrow started out strong, and his Outsiders run had excellent characterization and introduced some fantastic characters (Grace, Anissa, Shift).

And I think his heart is really in the right place: he came into comics like "I am going to right about GAY RIGHTS and HIV AWARENESS and NO ONE CAN STOP ME." The way he did that often wound up being kind of preachy, or, in the case of his Green Lantern run and the Terry Berg storyline, centering the feelings of the straight hero rather than the gay supporting character, but the more I study the queer history of comics, the more I realize how genuinely boundary-pushing this stuff still was in the early 2000s. (And to be clear, I was reading most of this as it came out in the 2000s and going "Judd, everyone knows this"...but everyone didn't, and the comics industry really didn't.)

But over the course of the 2000s, his work got worse and worse, and with the exception of Lost Days, most of his writing from the back half of the decade is just unreadably bad. I don't know how much of that was him and how much of that was editorial interference (because editorial was infamously meddle-y during that era and Winick's later work was very much in line with the tone they seemed to be looking for across the board), but everything was just relentlessly violent and hateful and exploitative. I ragequit Green Arrow after the issue where Dr. Light waxes rhapsodic about how much he loves raping women, and picked it up again for the Ollie/Dinah wedding only to drop it again when Ollie called Dinah a slut and she hit him and this was treated as foreplay. His New 52 Catwoman was so bad that his Wikipedia article talks about it being bad. Like, bro, what happened???

Anyway, he seems to be doing very well with his graphic novels for kids and I'm happy for him, but I do still wish he'd come back for one really homoerotic Red Hood/Arsenal team up. Just channel that one issue of Outsiders where Dick beats Roy up to cure his PTSD and the bit in Lost Days where Jason calls himself daddy and really go to town, that's all I'm asking.

[cleromancy]

i do think that insisting we should ~let~ jason get his own ~stuff~ instead of just ~stealing his big brother's~ (real actual opinion regarding jasons friendship with roy i had to see with my own two eyes) ... is coming from a very bland and ahistorical place wrt jason characterization.

like, not even going to start talking about brothers in blood bc im not going to ask you to take the "tentacle monster jason steals a nightwing suit and vores a guy" arc seriously for characterization choices...

but look, i really don't think it would be wrong to call jason the hand-me-down robin. for a while jason inherited what dick either left behind, or else walked behind him in his shadow. and looking at preboot jason specifically, post-resurrection jason has a complex relationship to the relics and symbols of the past--and what they mean to the tragedy of his life and death--where they simultaneously make him angry, he resents them, but also he actively surrounds himself with them at all times. it's part of his whole thing where he's purposely making himself a revenant; this is not something he's likely to give up doing as long as he's going by the name the red god damn hood.

anyway. robin. ...can i just say nuff said? whether its the copy-pasted circus background strawberry blond colorswap jason or how being robin gives him magic, robin was this whole thing for him, you might have heard about it. probably you can draw the connections yourself.

but as far as hand-me-down friendships go--this is, very explicitly in the text, the deal with jason!robin and donna in their very moving situation in new teen titans. she saw the uniform and wanted to react as though he were dick and look to him to lead, and at the time Jason's not at all offended, but he does have to establish that. he's not dick, which was what she was looking to him to be. and they do rekindle their relationship after jason is resurrected but ummmmm. it was in countdown lol. there was a lot going on in countdown.

anyway jason and *barbara* is significantly less on-the-page than jay and donna--btw all of this is preboot do not talk to me about post-reboot barbara. i am not joking--but he did fall into a friendship with her too, and what few interactions we do have from that time are both really cute and very reminiscent of robin-dickie and babsgirl. on top of that barbara was his tutor, and she was one of the (counting on my fingers) four. i believe. people at jason's funeral. shes notably absent *during* under the hood except for a conversation bruce and dick have about how she washed her hands of them lmao, and jason explicitly making a parallel btwn what the joker did to him and to her in the climax. after that i don't recall any incidents of her mentioning him or anything like that... not off the top of my head anyway.

anyway. there is also, of course, bruce. according to starlin, who we hate, something something bruce was lonely and missed dick so he scooped a new orphan off the street. whatever starlin. wolfman also toys with this idea but with significantly more nuance, leaning into the ways bruce might be different with a second war-- oh, excuse me, what was that?

yeah see bruce actually adopted this one

which is where the hand-me-down thing starts quivering trembling falling to pieces. it is, i think, a pretty fair reading of *whistles* the time period immediately before, up through, and after the crisis was redefining bruce and dicks history together to take it as... bruce was a lot less complicated with jason than he was with dick. not out of loving dick any less, because. well. bruces interpersonal issues have never stemmed from a deficit of love for the people he hurts, and lets down. and i do think thats a whole nother post, and its certainly not the only reading even just of the bits of canon im referencing right now, but for the sake of argument just suppose bruce was more consistent, and tbh *way* more of a dad, to robin-era jason than he was to dick.

but jason, i think, was too young to get that, without also the outside perspective that would let him see that bruce and dicks relationship wasnt *just* strained bc dick left. that actually maybe dick and bruces relationship was, fundamentally, a whole different animal than what jason had with bruce.

and we do have indications that jason saw dick as a perfect example he could never live up to (remember when i said i wasnt going to get into brothers in blood. Well i lied. its almost as gauche as it is outlandish). and as interesting as it is to consider how jasons perspective would have developed as he grew up if he had that stable loving relationship with bruce--and, imo, personally experienced it falling apart in real time the way dick did--thats not whats on the page. so, again, we have jason and these relationships and perspectives from before his death, frozen forever, and we have jason the revenant wreaking havoc on two relationships in particular--the one with bruce, and the one with dick--and, for the most part, leaving the others from before his death alone. (iirc, he pretty much stumbled into the thing with donna instead of seeking her out... don't actually take my word on that one though.) even alfred--and we do actually have interactions that support that they were pretty close, it's not just fanon; among other things theres a tear-jerker that culminates in alfred and jasons ghost having tea together--jason doesn't especially make any attempt to connect (or menace, as the case may be) except for the fucking rare first edition book thing, which was 100% about bruce anyway. god i love the fucking first edition book thing.

anyway. after his big bad master plan very literally blows up in his face, jason proceeds thereafter to rattle around the dc universe(s), deeply lonely and ever so fucking unwell, aimlessly menacing people, causing ruckuses, being a scoundrel, etc. also! murder. lots n lots of murder. he's a busy little bee. (for the record--anytime someone says jason tried to kill someone, go ahead and double check that for yourself. imo the only time A Wild Jason Attacked! and its actually ambiguous whether he expected them to survive--preboot--is battle for the cowl. generally speaking when jason puts his whole hoodussy into killing someone, he succeeds.) (battle for the cowl is also, for the record, one of the worst books detective comics comics has ever fucking shat out. worse than the tentacle monster jason vore arc, which is at least FUN. ----and also, i do think its worth noting that both possible victims of gun batman [large version, not to be confused with gun batman small version], tim and damian, are up and about pretty soon after what do look like potentially lethal injuries. and tim Jason does have pretty good reason to think died albeit from a wound that absolutely should not have killed him (but from jasons pov its like he hit tim with a batarang that shattered and killed him instantly which is. really funny). it's just like. we don't really know what was going thru tony daniels mind at the time. like *if* tony daniel had any thoughts at all, its entirely possible all he had between his ears writing/drawing it was lint and elevator music.) (this isnt even me being a jason apologist, this time anyway. i think if jason had killed tim for real that would have been high camp. battle for the cowl is just so goddamn badly written and stupid.)

anyway. no, i don't think what jason needs is to Stop Stealing Dick's Friends. i also think that "he was dicks first >:(" re roy is the dumbest argument ever to say as a person reading comics, but also extremely funny bc. well. dick would agree with you. dick would love it if jason got his own friends and left his (not jason's >:()(dick's)(dick's friends) alone. however like. dick grayson is not well. i know i distracted you by talking at length about what an absolute basket case jason is, but dick is also an insane person and prone to irrational jealousy and can not, and should not, get everything he wants. sorry dickie but the good news is: theyll still be your friends even if they're also jasons friends. and, given the fact that jason is extraordinarily prickly and difficult to get along with (on purpose), theyll probably even still like you better.

anyway look. what it boils down to is, post-resurrection jason as a character will always be defined by his own death. not only is it the central trauma of his life, he actively remade himself around it. and part of that is how he relates now as the self-made revenant to the hand-me-down pixie boots he used to fill. and you want him to completely stop doing this...why? because itd be "healthier"? what are you, a cop?

but no really like. yeah actually i do want jason to make some better choices, be on the stable side, be a fully developed antihero who poses a moral counterpoint to the bats, asks difficult questions, causes problems on purpose but not in a way where he's purposely burning down everything he loves, etc. i do want those things. but i think ripping him away from his past makes (...made...) him unrecognizable, and generic, and doesnt really take the character in an interesting direction that actually tracks with the character concept established in under the hood and developed (such as it was) in the *waves hands* aforementioned stories. according to ~me~ anyway, obviously when it comes to writing everyone can do what they want forever, unfortunately up to and including my enemy scott lobdell who i would dearly love to kill with a rock. for his crimes.

did i ever actually explain why i think its interesting & compelling for jason personally to keep throwing him at dicks friends? ...maybe not. but i did lay some groundwork and talk about one of my favorite boys. and in the end well roy is one of my other favorite boys so like. stream green arrow, vote worlds finest: teen titans, put your money where your mouth is and support our boy. (i am referring to roy obviously. jason can die in a ditch.)

[bitimdrake]

Do you have fic recs by any chance? You really seem to have a lot of comics knowledge so I trust that you know what’s accurate to the source material and what’s not :)

you know I've gotten a few asks about this and I never quite manage to answer them, because I'm always convinced that I will somehow end up with a perfect and complete rec list if only I wait to reply just a little longer.

SO I'm gonna try cutting myself off at the head this time, and not giving you a prefect list by any means, but at least giving you an answer:

Here is a collection that I'm slowly forming for fics that really feel like they're actually based off comics. It is currently very small and people are welcome to bookmark to it if they find other very comics-based fics, but it's a start.

And a couple random recs as I scroll through my personal bookmarks:

Redrawing the Lines (11k) is fantastic Batman Reborn era Dick & Tim & Damian fic, and it continues as a series after.

also the second before the other shoe drops (8k) about the same trio. AU where Damian makes a murder attempt in a subtler way--but most important, is not demonized by a narrative that instead gives everyone a fair shake.

will we ever get to the other side? (5k) Dick & Tim in a very specific era where Dick's life is falling apart and filled with trauma, and Tim has just been hit with a huge smack of grief and also trauma, and neither is at their best but they're trying.

Everything by @silverwhittlingknife is ideal Dick & Tim content, and all deeply rooted in comics. I will call out:

The Return (11k), which is Dick's pov of Tim coming back to Gotham after Brucequest

only you will have stars that can laugh (9k) which is sad and loney but also sweet on Christmas

Red Letter Day (42k, wip) in which god Dick is trying his fucking best to hold it together okay. (aka everyone is kind of prickly, Dick is stressed, there's a Mysterious Wednesday of unclear importance, and I love them sm)

@flybynightwing has equally comics-based and also absolutely fascinating and compelling fics. I'll call out:

How Far Love Goes (99k) a case fic that draws in everyone in the bat family, with a tilt towards Dick (although the Steph is also fantastic), and turns into a reflection on Bruce as a parent.

goal-oriented mindset (5k) Catalina's pov, meeting Dick again well after everything went down. Subject may not be for you, but I find it SO interesting and roll it around and around in my head. (And it is of the very very rare selection of actually comics-based fics about that arc.)

It's a Wonderful Earth-218 (7k). A thoroughly depressed Dick goes to a world where he was never born, it's a wonderful life-style.

(And carrying on with various authors again:)

Hate and Love are Two Sides of the Same Coin (5k + 13k sequel) every member of his family is forced to say what they like least about Dick. The fic makes no secret of its thoroughly contrived premise and doesn't particularly care to justify it either, but still comes out with great characterization and relationship reflections.

Mikey Dies At The End (4k), outsider pov centered around Jason as the Red Hood, which is so very confident in its characterization of him and has zero considerations given to fanon and it's an excellent read.

A Meditation on Railroading (24k), a Tim-centric fic that deals heavily with his relationship with his dad. This one is not really canon at all, but it is good, and its version of the relationship is compelling.

Young Justice Visit the Suez Canal (3k) look this one is pure 90s-style Young Justice humor. We're here for a good time.

Aaand I know there are many more good fics, but I have run out of steam and I am trying so so hard to remember that some answer is better than no answer. Though I am very sorry to all my beloved writers & mutuals who have written excellent comics fic.

Anyway final tip is when you find an author who knows what they're talking about, go through all their fics, and then go through all their bookmarks.

[garthofshayeris]

Hey! Just because it’s my roman empire, do you have any thoughts about what would have happened if Aquaman had actually killed Garth that one time? Like would Aquababy have survived? Would Aquaman have admitted to it, even to Mera? What would the Justice League/Titans do? (Like I’m pretty sure it would make Garth the first superhero death in dc comics; would that change anything for other superheroes with sidekicks?) Would Aqualad have pulled an underwater Red Hood when he was inevitably resurrected?

I love this question! The thing is, killing Aqualad would not have saved Aquababy. This is Black Manta we're talking about, he's not exactly a man of his word. He would have absolutely changed the game and let the baby die anyway, though maybe he would have taken a more active approach than suffocation.

I actually don't think Aquaman would have admitted to it. If Garth and Aquababy were dead, he would have been devastated and tbh, I don't think it's out of the question for him to have just gone into his own era of obsessing over Manta as much as Manta obsesses over him. He might have said that Garth "gave his life" for Aquababies; not a lie, exactly, but certainly not the truth. That could have easily worked for a while, especially if Aquaman kinda went insane and nobody really thought about questioning the details.

Killing a sidekick at that time would have been absolutely insane tbh. A real industry shake-up, which we saw when Jason Todd died. But, comics were already a bit darker then. I think killing Aqualad, and having a HERO kill him, would have been unheard of and totally unexpected. Though, I'm not sure DC would have allowed it.

The thing about Garth that comes up over and over again is that he is pure of heart. I actually think it's less likely that he would have turned into an anti-hero like Red Hood. That said, maybe a possession/necromancy situation could arise (obvi when the original comic happened, they didn't have this part of his backstory BUT Slizzath is an evil wizard...) Thinking about this from a "historical" perspective, killing off Garth after revealing his "evil father" origins would have been a really cool concept. I think it's important to keep Garth as good guy though, his whole thing is not being like his evil ancestors. BUT a reveal of Garth back from the dead, and suddenly he has the truth that Aquaman has been trying to hide? That would be such a cool concept!

[boyfridged]

What do you think of a storyline wherein Jason stays with Talia and works under her instead of going back to Gotham as Red Hood? I was really interested in their dynamic (minus that one scene from Lost Days) and wanted to see more of it. I think if they pushed for the Son of the Demon storyline, Talia's longing for her son could be a good premise for her further involvement with Jason's story. They'd still retain that same mutually beneficial relationship, but now in the sense of a mother gaining a son, and a son finally having a mother. Though I wonder if Jason would be amicable to work under the League.

And what are your thoughts about Jason and Damian's relationship in general? Tbh I'm a huge fan of the concept of Damian growing up with Jason at his side like the one from Young Justice. I think these two's dynamic is severely underused in the comics so I'm curious how you'd tackle writing them.

oh i have news for you.

and a very long proper answer under the cut (with some additional criticism of talia’s portrayal in the lost days in general.) 

i have to start with a preamble: this is a sentiment that i hear a lot, but i don’t agree that talia & jason’s relationship in the lost days is well written for the most part (even if we exclude the last couple of pages). the beginnings are strong and would go well with the general premise of it happening after son of the demon, i agree. still, what follows once jason regains his cognitive prowess after the pit is… questionable at best.

tldr: i genuinely fail to see any reason for which talia as we know her until now would enable jason to such an extent. i know that people usually go for explaining it by virtue of her actually trying to steer him away from gotham; or that she perhaps knows that it would be easy to lose jason’s trust at this point. you could also maybe argue that she wants to support him in his… autonomy? 

still. with who talia is at her core (or who she was… before 9/11 and all the following mischaracterisation. excluding lexcorp era of course, lexcorp era my beloved) she would simply not stand for the invention of the red hood, for soo many reasons. most notably because killing for her is not dogmatic; it’s a dirty job that she might have to engage once in a while, or something she will do in a spur of a moment to protect someone; but she doesn’t think it’s an ultimate solution to anything. and jason’s modus operandi as the red hood is based on the opposite idea.

also, if we’re going the route established by son of the demon; i don’t even think talia would want to grant him that kind of training knowing the state jason is in. maybe if there’s no other option; maybe as a gesture of love to ensure he can protect himself; but as i said before, she does not believe there’s anything particularly noble in being deadly. and i’d say she would believe that jay, being a child, should not be in this position. if we conceive it all as a situation in which there’s really little other choice – okay, let’s say she provides him with teachers. but to provide him with that many resources for a mission that is very much suicidal…? why would she do that.

she has so much to offer jay. i talked about it here, but i think it is that she does not believe in absolutes that she could teach him. it’s her relentless strive for freedom and the way she manages to build her identity (largely. not completely, because that’s impossible) outside of the influences of her father and batman. and it’s not merely a compromise nor a contrarian to their stance; it’s her own way of seeking justice.

anyway. so you ask about jason working under talia. i think talia would want jason to have something else; something new. still, given the circumstances and jay’s own will, it could be the best option for them to remain together for a while, and i don’t doubt they would form a familiar relationship (which is also very appealing to me because it's a kind of chosen family trope that i enjoy in the title in general; this is also how i see dick & jay's relationship: they both have an initial link to bruce, but it's their own decision that makes them care for one another.) and occasionally team up. except in this vision i would still like to think that talia would respect him and his autonomy enough that it would be more of a partnership. 

the question of whether jason would want to remain in the league is a whole different question to me since such a huge part of talia’s development is that she wants an out. so in my mind, if they’re in the league together, talia does not have much control over the situation herself and she is mainly protecting him doing her best to make sure that jason is not indoctrinated.

because i do think that despite jay’s brightness, will and distaste for authority, he could get indoctrinated. this is how cults work after all; everyone can fall in as long as they are suitably isolated and “broken” by methods such as lack of sleep. they also tend to coerce the subject of the brainwashing into thinking that they are the ones “taking control” in their lives, which jay is desperately looking for. and jason is also searching for something radical, no matter how terrifying and unreasonable it is. howbeit, it's not all that interesting storyline to tell; i like to think he gets dangerously close to it, but never quite completely broken. and i think a huge part for why he manages to stay out of it should be talia.

there are some other versions of the story possible wherein making him stay in loa for a time would make sense; if talia’s and damian are there, then he could stay for their sake. or perhaps in order to get further resources and contacts for his mission, using it for his own advantage.

and since i mentioned damian here: well- i’m not a huge fan of canon damian. or, let me reiterate; he does induce my sympathy and i like him personality-wise, but he’s also such a huge catalyst for character assassination of everyone involved: talia, bruce— that i find it very difficult to enjoy any story with him in the centre. the only possible way to preserve his his canon backstory without it happening is, i think, if talia was not aware he was in the league at all (here following the premise of her giving the child away at birth.) i still think that when possible, jay should be shown to care about him, primarily because damian's a kid and i can't possibly express how much i hate content in which jason is cruel to children.

and i do enjoy playing around with what-ifs concerning these 3 characters. i actually have 2 more wips about them… one inspired by mother (2023) which is a remarkably bad movie but did inspire me to write a story in which damian got adopted and only after 13 years talia has to get involved as he is in danger (it’s also a story in which talia is working on dismantling the league. and jason shows up for a while.) and another one in which they all live together during lexcorp era. 

[thattimdrakeguy]

Hey, I've been lurking on your posts, definetly agree with a lot of your takes, but one thing that always bother me is your depiction of Tim Drake's skills. Like, making him out to be really weak and downplaying his strengths. That's not saying he's this super awesome dude who can do anything. He was described as not as natural at combat stuff as Dick and Jason, but he worked hard to overcome that and became someone that stands as an equal to them. He wasn't the weakest Robin, he was equal to them because he put in the work. That's what makes him relatable. The talk of forever weak Tim, like Damian saying he could never lose to Tim, and Tim agreeing and using trickery to take the win, it stinks of genetic superiority. Considering Post-Crisis, where he was depicted as pretty buff actually. He was about as big at 13 as Jaso was when he died at 15. It was only after flashpoint that you see talk like this. And I agree, that sometimes fandom exaggerates his intelligence, but his Robin and Red-Robin runs show that he is pretty equal to Bruce and Dick as a detective, that in Gotham he is second only to Barbara in computer work. It's not that Tim's weaker and less skilled than everyone, and it's not that he's so much smarter than everyone either. I'd take 15 year old Tim and put him equal to 15 year old Dick and Jason. I'd put Red Robin as close to an equal to Nightwing, and equal to Red Hood. People do forget he's also won against Red Hood in canon, as well as lost. They've fought a couple of times. So yeah, I don't vibe with Tim being considered the weakest Gotham vigilante, and with 14 year old Damian being considered top 3, with Cass and Bruce. I'd buy it when he's older. Sorry for being long-winded, I was kinda venting. I'd love to hear your opinion. No hate either way, reply to this or not, it's your choice.

That was very difficult to read. So I'm gonna briefly write, what I think is a summarized version of it, and I'll answer what I gathered out of it, and if I'm wrong, I want you to send me another ask so I can answer this right.

"Why do you make out Tim to be really weak? Art depicts something different from what you said. Comics have said he's better in this and that."

Basically, the answer is, the art style in the 90s made everyone really big and buff, look at the Marvel cartoons at the time, most action figures, and it even went for most comics. BUT, the way Tim was written, and shown in his brief time before the 80s and that bit of time when that fad ended shown Tim wasn't meant to look like a steroid abuser.

Tim was constantly talked about as being skinny, and small. Well, skinny in what he seemed like when he had civilian clothes anyways. He was lean.

So, yeah, what he looked like a lot didn't match up.

In the 90s and I'm sure other eras, and art styles. You gotta learn to accept the sensibilities at the time, and not let it trick you into thinking something the intention wasn't.

Also 13-year-old Tim definitely isn't meant to be seen as the same size as 15-year-old Jason.

Here's how they're depicted by the same artist in the same story:

While Jim Aparo does have a same face problem, there's a lot of panels where Tim looks entirely generic, and does make Tim more buff in the costume compare to civilian clothes, which is an inconsistency. Not counting how his sizing of Tim is off compared to how George Perez, the guy to draw the proper first appearance of Tim as we know him. He still makes sure Tim is seen as softer, smaller, and far 'cuter' compared to how he depicts Jason on a regular enough bases, that you can tell what Tim is actually meant to look like, when he's trying harder.

(Ignore the Robin in the upper left corner, that is Dick not Jason.)

Jim Aparo was also the artist for most of Jason's Robin run on Batman (The Jason we know, not the Dick Grayson copy.) Which includes Death of the Family, where he's still depicted as being larger than Tim.

While Jim has a clear love for the ever large, imposing Batman. Jason is still taller than Tim, and has quite the mature look to him.

While a bit inconsistent. Jason is just under Bruce's shoulder. While Tim is basically at Bruce's belly button. And Jason is consistently buff while in costume and not. There was even a panel (that I don't have now, but I did once. I have a large Jason post you may be able to find) that showed Jason working out with bar bells. The intention clearly being that he's meant to be a more of a brawler compared to Dick, and later Tim.

So within the art, and the writing, no, Tim is meant to be quite small, and Jason is meant to be quite large. Jason just wasn't allowed to make Batman seem less imposing when around him, as it'd look silly. Certainly in that ridiculous original Robin costume.

Also I just don't care for Red Robin. I think it just wrote in stuff that felt more like sudden changes to validate a sudden decision, more than it did depict Tim in a new chapter of his existence. Therefore I don't like it, nor do I care for what it says.

Chris Yost is more often than not a great writer.

Red Robin to me, is not one of those comics where he is a great writer.

Lot of great ideas, but more executions I don't think work than anything else.

I don't think all comics are equal.

Canon is very weak even when they tried to maintain it.

So for my sake I go purely off of what I interpret to be the intention, and only care for stories that I personally think do a good job at continuing, and developing narratives that feel in-line with the intention.

Because a writer can write what ever they want as long as the editors, and publisher, and who ever else allows it to be released.

If I were to treat every comic as equal these character's personalities and skills would be so inconsistent you'd have to be a world class mental gymnast champion to bother finding reason for it.

I don't personally bother with it, because why would I? If I don't think a story is well written, then I simply don't think it's well written. I don't get anything out of forcing myself to think I like something I don't.

Also I never said Tim is very weak. I don't think he should be very weak. And if I have said something like that, I likely meant it within a context.

I just like it when writers remember that his way of winning fights, is his wits, not his brawn.

You can be talented, and a winner, without being great at everything. Tim isn't relatable when he's great at everything. Do most people practice so much they become great at everything? No, because that isn't realistic. Not that Batman characters are realistic. It tends to go against Tim's point is all, in my eyes at least.

Tim somehow becoming Dick's equal within 3 and a half years, when Dick has been at it for a decade or more, is insanely hard to believe. Especially when Dick is a natural talent, and Tim is not.

If everyone is depicted as talented in the same exact ways, that is extremely boring to me. So I don't care for it.

Why bring up a character being this, this, and that, to never use it? That's pretty lazy, boring writing to me. So when a writer acknowledges how Tim is supposed to win fights, and actually puts the effort into depicting that, I give it praise, because I think it deserves it.

Also, within the specific example you gave: Damian is a genetically altered super warrior, trained from birth, with (I don't know if this is canon anymore, or was ever much of a thing past one story) enhancements grafted into him.

It's way more interesting to me, to have Damian be able to best Tim at normal combat, 'cause of their immensely different upbringings. Rather than simply saying "Tim is older, so he should win". That's not very clever, or fun to think about.

Although proper power scaling in comics is nonsense as well, in my personal opinion, because really, who ever wins is up to the writer. Any writer can have a character can find a way to beat another character. What makes it well-written or not, is if the writer goes through the effort to make it believable within what's established.

Which is why I liked Zdarsky writing Tim to use his wits to best someone who has far more experience and natural talent in one on one combat. It let's Tim beat someone, he probably shouldn't be able to, in a way that's interesting, and true to character.

However you are entirely free to enjoy buff, Red Robin, as talented as the rest of them Tim. I'm not meaning this as anything in the form of disrespect, or anything like that. You're entirely free to enjoy whatever you want.

All I'm saying is, I don't buy it, and I don't think it SHOULD be how Tim is depicted, because it makes him a lot more generic and typical, when I think he's a lot more interesting when writers follow the intentions of him.

I'm not asking for him to be identical to how he is before he even properly starts being Robin.

I ask for consistency, and writing that cares about maintaining what was the charm, and likability, and uniqueness of a character, even through out their developments, so they don't become lost, or lose their identity, a fate that can infect a lot of characters that get writers without those sensibilities.

'Cause a LOT of stuff is considered canon that doesn't match.

And I'm not one of those people that tries to act like "Oh you can't ignore that just because you don't like it' because everyone does. I've never seen someone say that, and not have some complaint about it. I'm a man of honesty, even in times of disagreements.

All respect to you, though.

I'm mainly hoping this doesn't read like a strongly worded letter. When really I'm casually saying all of this. I'm just insanely Autistic and long winded in my own right.

[chronicwhorebatman]

uhhhh could u pls pls tell me ur hcs (if u have them) about the batfamilys hairstyles thru the years. do u believe in long hair discowing?? whats jasons hair like as robin vs red hood? give me a whole timeline if u want

you know what? hell yeah.

long post so here’s a cut

bruce. bruce, in his childhood, had the same haircut the whole time!! then his mother died and she cut it for him so for about a year and a half (nearing 10 years old) he had this steadily growing mop of hair that was not cleaned or brushed. occasionally alfred would attempt to get it clean but bruce would hiss like a feral cat so it didn’t get very far

THEN he shaved most of his hair off because it was unsalvageable to a nearly ten year old

then he had a FUCK TON of teenage mistakes. including bleached slightly long hair, although he kept it short at the back because bruce in my head never wants to revisit his Grief Hair phase <33 there were a lot more mistakes but i don’t have those pinpointed but i haven’t decided on them yet! know that he had frosted tips at one point though. it’s important to me.

as an adult he has the regular ass haircut he has in every comic lmao. as bruce it’s just neatly combed, as brucie it’s always sleep-mussed or sex-mussed, and as matches malone his hair is slicked back with so much gel it fucking drips. as matches malone he is a slimy little disgusting rat by design. in his secret drag persona he wears a wig like a coward.

dick. as a kid, dick has the same haircut as his father, whatever that might be!! he’s a baby mimicry and it’s adorable. he also briefly copied his mother’s hair only to discover it took way too much work

the father part also applies to bruce! although i don’t believe dick saw bruce as his father until he was well on his way into adulthood i do believe that he copied his haircut. i will not explain this clash with anything other than imagining dick as a tiny bruce clone is hilarious

discowing era dick had a mullet and bruce hated every second of it.

after that i think dick had short hair but quite floppy round the front? like lotta fringe <33

baby jason is continually fascinated w dick’s hair <33333

jason. jason had relatively short hair when bruce found him but it was growing longer (did not have money for a haircut) but he got it cut when he got adopted. unfortunately he now also has bruce hair because he didn’t care what his hair looked like because he was busy being excited about robin

after he died his hair grew out a bit because when he was comatose nobody was looking after him :(

w the league they shaved his hair because it was kinda gross tbh. he had shaved hair for a while

he grew it back out to what he generally looks like in comic panels, fuck if i know what that’s called. unfortunately the fucker shaved it again at the beginning of being red hood. jason your hair is pretty stop doing this

he then did a whole lot of things to get rid of his white streak from shaving to dying to threatening to colouring it in with sharpie. jokes on him it takes less than 12h to come off <333

tim. tim has had one haircut his entire life! it’s your average white boy haircut.

damian. damian is baby and has only had one haircut. he vaguely resembles a spiky hedgehog.

steph. not batfamily (unless by marriage <3) but including here because my hcs for cass and duke are also “they have had one haircut their whole life” mainly because my brain broke when i tried to picture anything else :/ i’ll leave my brain to marinate on cass and duke and get back to you because i also love them and this feels so bland

ANYWAY steph has long blonde hair then she cuts it into a bob then grows it out again. the cycle continues unless she cuts her hair a lot shorter! which she keeps for longer because she doesn’t like the half grown in half grown out look! then it’s back to the cycle <333

alfred has never had different hair ever. my brain also broke trying to picture it

[alicepooryorick]

hey there! you recently reblogged one of my posts with a question about roy’s character (the op is fishfission-dc, this acc is my main.) i just wanted to let you know that the account you asked (elioherondale) is someone who goes around tumblr harassing anyone that draws or writes jason and roy together, with the characterization of the New 52 (2011-2016ish) run of their comics. (and I do say in the original tags that it’s specifically about this run!) So if you get a hateful or strange answer from them I just wanted to warn you :)

But if you wanted my answer to your question about how Roy is characterized differently, you can read this monstrous essay below.

In the older comics he’s more of a serious “asshole” who’s a ride or die for his teammates and daughter. (The new Green Arrow is a little more like this Roy, I know you said you’ve been into that recently :) ) He had an era in like the 80’s or smth where the writers gave him alcohol and heroin addictions, where Oliver was super unsupportive for a while, it was a whole thing. But Lian and his teammates and eventually Oliver helped him back to being a standup guy and the comics just stopped mentioning the addictions. When the DC universe was jumbled with the New 52 2011, he was a member of the Outlaws in Red Hood and the Outlaws and then when Kori left the series Red Hood / Arsenal followed just him and Jason. These series made him more goofy, the funny man to Jason’s callousness. But Roy would still kick it into gear and be serious as hell when needed, and he was competent, intelligent, all that jazz that’s true to his character. He just makes jokes now and actually tells his friends that he loves them.

this era also brings back the concept of Roy being an addict, which writers tries to shove under the rug for a while after the edgy 80’s arc that created it. Elioherondale and his jayroy harassment goons like to say that the New 52 comics “regressed Roy to being an addict” or that his friendship with Jason did it, but that’s not true!! In the New 52 he’s not actively using, he’s been clean for a long time, it just addresses the fact that heavy addictions aren’t something you can just get over and forget about. You struggle with them for the rest of your life. It’s a super serious topic and I think this contributed to why they made Roy more lighthearted and silly outwardly, because they focused so heavily on this inner struggle he has, and had a lot of serious moments around it.

the characterization in the New 52 comics also implies to change Jason’s and Roy’s ages to be more similar, making them “best friends” and “partners” whereas in the old comics Roy would’ve been probably 6ish years older than Jason, and would have met him at least 18 years old when Jason was 13. There is also so much romantic implication and just general good friendship and loyalty and all that good stuff in this era, even if the writing might suck at times (often).

so anyway, I love the characterization in this goofy little New 52 comic era of Roy and Jason but it makes Roy have a funny disaster personality and reintroduces the idea that someone with a heavy addiction can’t just get rid of that. so sorry this was so long, I just wanted to give you a more objective take on the question!!

The squeal of joy I let out when you said this was along message. Thank you so much for taking the time to give me such a thought out response!

Also thanks for the warning, I just got a notification that they rb'd my question. It felt like this kinda situation but i also wondered if this was a Barbara Gordon situation, as I am a batfan. So it's not inconceivable that Roy got a similar n52 treatment as Barbara did.

I own like... one issue of the n52 redhood // Arsenal run. #9 I believe. I love Jason and Duela's relationship in the book.

But again, thank you for this message it was so fun reading through that, the new green arrow run is my first time reading a green arrow run and it's easily one of my top 5 along with Wonder Woman.

Hope you have a great day bestie!

[veronica-17-hood]

"I think we deserve

A soft epilogue, my love.

We're good people

And we've suffered enough"

—Seventhy years of sleep, nikka ursula

Jason needs a soft epilogue, he's a good person, and he's suffered enough

you asked, of course i’ll deliver.

it had been years.

not only for himself but for everyone else too.

the originals had all retired at this point, achy joints and tired eyes had just grown too much for them to handle. the titans changed masks, the outlaws disbanded, the justice league has since evolved to a new era of hero’s.

he was thirty-five when he decided to step down, ignoring the bat signal as it gleamed in the smog filled sky of gotham city, ignoring the gun shots that he could hear from crime alley, and the cackles of the new and up coming villains.

he had done all he could manage, he put his everything in fixing gotham, so did his father and his brothers, his friends-his family.

and his everything was just not enough.

damian took on the cowl, he was a better batman than bruce could ever be. he was the best parts of each of the wayne’s, he is optimistic like dick, does what bruce never could like jason, expands his mind like tim, listens like cassandra, and of course keeps his temper from his youth.

jason watched as dick slowly gave up bludhaven, finally realizing that he can’t compensate for not saving his parents by saving everyone else. dicks family grew, with a baby with glowing green eyes like her uncle jay (though they do fall from her mothers side even if she isn’t on earth much nowadays) and a set of twins with red hair that you could spot from a mile way. they spend the most time with jay now a days, living only an hour from each other, never thought you’d see the day where dick grayson and jason todd found a common ground after everything that happened.

he saw tim finally explore his truest potential, running wayne enterprises now as the CEO and actually running it instead of sleeping in board meetings and using its resources for vigilantism. though jason never talked to him much before or after he took off the hood.

he saw cass finally grow out of the wounded orphan, a title she found herself labeling herself as so long she stood behind the shadow of the bat. her smile grew as did her power, her focus now on the children who are being used, abused, and mistreated by their parents as she was.

a true hero, in jason’s eyes anyways.

duke and steph both found themselves wandering through life, going to and from each wayne just to relive the days when the manor was booming with voices and detectives. it’s heart wrenching to see them feel so lost without the chaos, jason knew the feeling too well.

but then there is jason, who still lives from apartment to apartment, with one in gotham and one in bludhaven, even one in jump just in case someone needs him.

but he found you, found your stillness and patience, the calm in his red heated storm of fury.

he met you at twenty five, fresh into the business of redhood. scars littering his body and too much blood on his hands to even consider you loving a monster like him.

yet you did, the scars, glowing eyes, and bloody hands included.

you patched him up each time he came home slashed, talked him down each time he came home angry at bruce, loved him when the nights were too hard to sleep through, and have been here each day since.

now he’s sitting at the edge of the bed in your shared apartment in gotham, just staring at you as you slept, eyes wandering your person, outlining your body. how had he gotten so lucky?

every now and again he would look in the mirror and cringe at the scars, the bullet holes, and autopsy marks. he hated that he allowed himself to suffer for so long, that he allowed people to ditacte his feelings about himself and his life. that he allowed bruce’s inability to break the one vow that kept him sane to drive a deep gorge between them, he hated it all.

but then you would come around him, around resting his torso and smiling into his back. you loved him for each scar, each bullet hole, and large ‘Y’ shaped scar drawing from chest to navel. you managed to love him for hating his father, for misunderstanding but mainly for being right. you loved him for doing whatever batman never could and for telling him such. you loved him for the way he lived his life and the way he did it for everyone that couldn’t do it themselves.

he was an antihero in all his right and you would always remind him that, but a hero for you nonetheless.

even with that damned ‘J’ scar carved into his cheek did you love him and kiss him and marry him, even then.

because at the end of the day he had suffered enough, he had made you suffer enough too.

with the fights and tantrums. with the gaslighting and secrets. with everything toxic and wrong there was always a reason, an answer, and solution.

you turned in bed now, eyes openings slowly to see him gazing so lovely down toward you, auburn hair curly and wet sticking to his forward, with the singular white strip hanging the lowest and twirling in his eyes as he tried to bay his lashes toward you.

for once in his life, he had something constant, his family loved him even with all the death and tension, his wife loved him for everything he was, a book worm or murder depending on which year you looked at, his city was getting better even if he wasn’t running around on rooftops saving it, for once it’s was seemingly okay.

he smiled softly, leaning down to lay besides you, twisting his hands around your torso tugging you as close as he could to you. “i’ve come to a conclusion” it was a whisper in which the words came out, his eyes closing as foreheads touched.

you hummed, urging him to continue, your eyes closing as his hands trailed up and down your spine. “i think we deserve a soft epilogue, my love”

you smiled, immediately recognizing the words, jay must have been reading this morning. “we are good people-”

both set of eyes open now, his scar shining in the sunlight bursting through the window, his teeth on display as his nose nudged yours making a mirrored smile appear on your own face.

“-we’ve suffered enough” he finished your line, leaning to press a soft kiss to the corner of your lips mumbling an endearment before speaking your name aloud, “I love you until this earth swallows my bones or to dust I return.”

and just then did jason see his beautiful life, scars and all as he held you close to him, for he was thankful for his hard life because it led him to you, the end to his suffering, to his everything.

[dilfbatman]

dil ik ur in ur kpop era but if i wanted to get into dc where would i start i don’t trust what the men online are telling me

AUR FIRST OF ALL I’M SO EXCITED FOR YOU TO GET INTO DC!!!!! it has one of my top two dilf’s of all time in it <3 (bruce & toji heyyyyyy) and MFNFNFNFNND kpop era i fear bts have a hold on me that’s stronger than anything i felt before… ANYWAYS

honestly the way i got into dc at first wasn’t through comics but actually tv shows & movies! “young justice”, “justice league action”, “lego batman”, “under the red hood” were some of the first few pieces of media i consumed of dc and they were actually pretty decent! i found myself getting really into them and wanting to know more!

& this is where i really got into fanart & edits & ultimately COMICS! i found masterlists of some of my fav dc characters that people have made which give comics in order + best comics to read! i’ll link some at the end of this for some of my fav characters but i do wanna warn you that for me PERSONALLY comics don’t hit like mangas do so if you’re used to mangas, comics can be a bit :/ either cause of the writing, pacing, terrible storylines & retcons but i digress bc some of them are still fun & cute! ALSO READ COMICS ON readcomiconline.to! it’s a free site and has ALL your fav characters & their comics <3

if you find yourself really getting into a character i recommend finding reading lists bc they are the EASIEST & most comprehensive way of learning abt your favs! for ex: “jason todd reading list”, “dick grayson reading list”, “supersons reading list”, “batfam reading list” & batman… batman is a special one bc his lore is SO extensive dear LORD 😭 i like dan mora’s urban legends run, jorge jimenez had a cute run w supersons, & there’s apparently a WEBTOON of bat family! i haven’t read it bc i got into anime/kpop but my moots really love it!

here’s a comprehensive masterlist of many dc characters: https://comraderecs.tumblr.com/post/18865609991/dc-comic-recommendations

- jason todd (MY HOLY GRAIL): https://dailyjasontodd.tumblr.com/comics

- dick grayson: https://dickgreyson.tumblr.com/post/181828849357/this-list-is-by-no-means-extensive-or-exhaustive

- damian wayne: https://yicruz48.tumblr.com/post/622909569337819136/it-was-a-genuine-question-i-havent-read-a-lot-of

- supersons: https://wonderstrevors.tumblr.com/post/179575583272/the-super-sons-is-the-name-of-the-duo-conformed-by

- batfamily (really comprehensive!): https://hood-ex.tumblr.com/post/172730736323/how-does-one-get-in-to-the-nightwingbatkids

- conner kent: https://stephbrown.tumblr.com/post/175552866201/the-death-and-return-of-superman-1992-1993

- duke thomas: https://batfamilydaily.tumblr.com/post/167779386458/who-is-he-duke-thomas-is-a-vigilante-and-a-member

- bruce wayne: ok so. for bruce specifically since his lore is so incredibly huge dating back decades it’s intimidating to get started for him but if you want you could totally start from the beginning but i found myself just reading from whatever posts i found interesting on @why-i-love-comics (for ex: ghostmaker & batman comic, tomasi’s run, jorge jimenez’s run, dan mora’s urban legends run etc…) also this reading list is really decent so here you go as well! https://uncannycarrot.tumblr.com/post/655621762721136640/so-i-recently-got-back-into-the-batman-fandom

this is gonna sound silly but at the end of the day you get into dc & comics themselves bc they’re FUN! <3 while i personally have many gripes w dc i also loved it so much & still do! at the core of batman & the whole batfam there IS genuine love & a genuine want for family! they’re good people wanting to do good things for the betterment of the world no matter what their moral code is - i love them a lot they’re very dear 2 me! <333 i Hope you have fun reading/watching and if you have any questions PLEASE feel free to ask! :D

(also if you ever want bts/manga recs you know where 2 find me <3 a heehee a giggle) gonna add bts gifs just cause i want to hehe love you mwah

[stxleslyds]

Hi I love reading your answers!

I’m trying to read as much comics as I can and I kind of have mixed opinions on Jason’s run after he resurrected, I feel like there were some writers that took advantage of his “supernatural psychosis” and made him look too crazy. There are a few writers I definitely don’t like like Lobdell (and a few others I forgot at the moment) but when he was written during that era it kind of feels like they forgot that he has his own moral code despite the Lazarus Pit effecting him? Would the Lazarus Pit effect him THAT much that it would cloud his judgement and make him act against what he believes in? I’m not really sure if I will still feel this way later but I’m just curious what your thoughts are? Jason is still one of my fav DC characters tho lol

Hey Anon, I am glad you enjoy my answers!

I have some sort of complicated news, the Lazarus Pit and what it is able to actually do has been modified plenty, by both DC and fanon. For example, the pit cannot bring people back from the dead (there is an exception but that pit can only bring one person back to life, but that one has nothing to do with Jason), what the pit does is regenerate and heal all wounds, physical and mental. The Lazarus Pit doesn’t make anyone immortal just because they took a dip in them, Ra’s kind of immortal because he bathes in Lazarus Pit water frequently and that keeps him “young”.

Now another side effect that has been heavily distorted by fandom is the “Lazarus Pit Madness” which I believe is what you are referring to when you said “supernatural psychosis”. The real name of the side effect is called “Lazarus Pit Rage” and its temporary and is suffered immediately after getting out of the Pit, it doesn’t last long, it is like hyper reaction to a stamina shot and is often depicted in comics by having however comes out of the pit screaming and making angry faces.

There are two versions of how Jason came out of the Lazarus Pit after being pushed. In Batman Annual #25 (1940), Jason was depicted as screaming as he took his first breath and in Red Hood: The Lost Days #1, he was depicted as emerging from the pit like a sort of angel, there was no screaming.

If he were to have felt the side effects of the Lazarus Pit rage, he would have felt them right there, whether he experienced that or not isn’t clear, in both issues that I mentioned above, as fast as Jason comes out of the pit, Talia takes him away and makes him run away because Ra’s wanted to kill Jason.

What we see though, in both issues, is Jason starting to remember his past life after he has contact with information about Batman, Robin or Joker. Jason had no memories or very few because he suffered brain damage when he died and when he came back, he was in a coma and then in a semi-vegetative state. His memories come back only if something triggers a memory.

Batman Annual #25

Red Hood: The Lost Days #1

When the memory of his death, the Joker and Batman was triggered he became enraged because Joker was still alive and Batman had another Robin. Whether this is due to the pit rage or just Jason having very strong feelings is debatable. I believe Jason’s memories triggering after being dormant for so long and them being so violent and hurtful is more than enough for Jason to react in a violent and sporadic way. So, if you ask me, there is no pit rage involved at that time, but maybe others think differently.

Writers like Tony Daniel (Battle for the Cowl) and Grant Morrison (Batman and Robin) wrote Jason like a crazy, bloodthirsty villain. If they wanted to blame Jason’s actions on the pit rage, they never made that clear (maybe I don’t remember correctly), the way I see it none of those writers really know what or who Jason and Red Hood were supposed to be so they wrote the most OOC characterizations of Jason to this date.

Lobdell is a weir case because he never took the time to explain anything, we just know that he changed everything including how the Lazarus Pit actually works. Lobdell wrote his story by making Talia taking Jason’s dead body and putting him in a pit in order to bring him back to life (once again that’s not how those work) and after Jason came out of the pit, Talia immediately took Jason to the All-Castle so he could be trained by Ducra.

So having said all that I will actually answer your questions now (sorry for always rambling way too much).

“…but when he was written during that era it kind of feels like they forgot that he has his own moral code despite the Lazarus Pit affecting him?”

No, they didn’t forget, it was just bad writing, at that point in time the Lazarus Pit would have had no effect on Jason. The pit rage happens immediately after you get out of the pit and during the events of Battle for the Cowl and Batman and Robin (volume 1), Jason had been back in the land of the living for more than two years.

In Lobdell’s case, he has written Jason as being angry after he trained with Ducra but Lobdell himself credited that to Jason being “and angry little pup”, “reckless”, and “not being able to see his full potential”.

Jason’s moral code disappeared after UtRH, and was brought back again when Winick wrote Lost Days in 2010. We sort of saw a glimpse of that moral code in Urban Legends: Cheer #6 by Chip Zdarsky but it was surrounded by very weird writing, maybe if we are lucky Rosenberg will pick up on that moral code when he writes Jason next.

“Would the Lazarus Pit affect him THAT much that it would cloud his judgement and make him act against what he believes in?”

Absolutely not. Because the pit rage is temporary and because Jason was feeling anger from his very own feelings and even while feeling that way Jason still fought for what he believed in when he killed one of his teachers that was running a child trafficking operation in Red Hood: The Lost Days #3.

He felt angry and all that but he was functioning properly anyways, he trained and he had his own thoughts, he was in complete control of himself.

-

Those are all my thoughts I hope they came out a little bit comprehensible, its really hard for me to answer questions in a short and simple way, I have to fix that…

What comics have you read? I recommend Arkham Knight: Genesis by Peter Tomasi if you ever want to read an alternate universe version of Jason (it has nothing to do with comics, it is based on the lore of the Arkham games).

And hell yes! Jason is amazing even if he has a complicated history with bad writers. Jason Nation! whoop whoop!

I hope this answer was enjoyable, and that you have a wonderful week!

[demigoddreamer]

Exploring Jason Todd The Second Robin

Imma do a character analysis on Jason Todd aka Red Hood and I will split into 3 parts Pre Robin, Robin, Red Hood

Even though Jason Todd has been broken and hurt by so many people he still manages to be a good person who fights for good

That’s honestly amazing the rarest person is someone who even when in the darkness brings light to others

Dick, Tim, and Damian held the title of Robin and they have a much better relationship with Jason nowadays maybe even considering each other brothers. And he deserves it after all he’s been through

Let’s get into the trauma of this amazing boi who I love so much and is precious and I want to hug him and let’s start before I spiral

Pre Robin Era:

So my baby grew up with terrible parents(HE DOESN’T DESERVE THAT PAIN MY POOR BABY WAS HURT BY HIS PARENTS THEY ARE TERRIBLE I LOVE HIM SO MUCH...sorry imma shut up and continue) So his father(more like DNA donor cause he doesn’t deserve to be called a father) was Willis Todd who was a criminal and henchman who eventually went to prison and died there...or he was killed or two face...I think? comic book timelines and stories and baggage. But his mother Catherine Todd was an addict and died of a drug overdose(when it comes to his origin story I pick and choose what makes sense and what doesn’t which is maybe wrong idk) So then he spent around 3 years on the streets stealing and starving. poor guy I’m gonna cry *ahhhhhhh* anyway It is HEAVILY HEAVILY HEAVILY suggested that Jason had to do some prostitution. *nooo my poor boi* it’s basically canon that my boi had to be sexually assaulted to survive. Then one day when Batman is fighting crime he finds that the tires are stolen off his batmobile(is it seriously called that? i know it is but like ew terrible naming) so he finds this kid and Jason’s like 11 so he’s not gonna beat up a kid(well if you look at Batman #17 and i’m pretty sure other issues he does beat up kids but...) he doesn’t here so he just decides to adopt Jason cause Bruce has an adoption problem just straight up collecting lost children *ADMIT IT BRUCE* and he makes Jason Robin. Because he’s afraid this poor innocent child is gonna be a bad guy if batman isn’t going to do something about it. Due to the severe trauma and abuse from the streets and his parents he’s constantly on guard all the time. It affects his personality and behavior. He may act angry but that’s a cover and he actually wants love and affection. But he’s scared of putting his walls down and letting people in for them to only hurt him again. He also sees bruce as a father figure and he doesn’t want to be abandoned again.

*but the fandom loves you baby boi*

i might’ve missed something but that’s all i could think of

[why-this-kolaveri-machi]

chin fucking up, amigo.

Titans 3.02

... eh?

SPOILERS ahead.

1. you know that music video for billie jean where michael jackson would dance along the pavement and the tiles would light up under his feet in different colours? yeah? me too.

titans hasn’t met a table top or a support arch that it doesn’t want to light up in a headache-inducing blue like the world’s most boring nightlight. i mean, i’m not an expert on lighting or cinematography or just... colour by any means, and the quality of the video i’m watching is poor given that i can’t access hbo max, but all the orange and teal and neon is making it very difficult to really differentiate between say, the batcave and the gotham police department and hell, the titans tower. i feel like there’s oftentimes a gap between idea and execution with titans, with gotham being this almost otherwordly hellscape with an aesthetic pulled from a gothic horror novel, but the colours and design just... leave it flat and dark and dull.

1.5. like what really frustrates me is that titans has a delightful mix of tones--the fights often remind me of schumacher-era batman camp, with the contrived quips and the start-stop rhythm and krypto just sallying in and ending the fight with a fucking SuperBark (tm) but in the same episode you have red hood just casually pulling out severed heads out of a duffle bag and desperate people blackmailed into killing themselves out of drug overdoses. I MEAN. it’s wonderful! but it looks all the same. it sounds Absolutely Bonkers on paper but on screen both Quip and Murder happen in the same washed-out blue and i wanted to be excited about the batcave, dammit!

2. things re: red hood have happened at such a breakneck speed that it feels like there’s so much that’s happened off-screen that we’re not privy to. a real proper mystery! 

things that are intriguing about the red hood arc so far:

a) what was that chemical he huffed just before going to fight the joker? is it a regular old performance/adrenaline booster or is it something more lazarus-juice adjacent? if it’s the latter, i can’t imagine he got that much information from a lone chemistry textbook. and where is he getting the resources to set up his little chemistry lab? is somebody else orchestrating things behind the scenes?

b) the red hood persona, costume and mask, plus the elaborate plan he’s putting in place to both string along gotham’s rogues and enact his revenge against the titans seems too... fully-formed and elaborate to have been concocted in just a few days. how long do you think jason’s been planning this? just... stewing in resentment and building rage, dismissed and passed around and underestimated and realising that the power he thought he would get by being robin is no power, no protection at all, but something that’s left him even more vulnerable than before? 

c) do we think that the scarecrow is at least partly behind this transformation? because yes, it was batman that set up this whole hannibal lecter-esque situation with him, and he would be irresponsible enough to have jason-as-robin go talk to him regularly regarding “~profiling~” criminals. it’s not too far of a leap to assume that scarecrow could’ve been manipulating jason at a very vulnerable time, and that he could’ve passed along some of his chemistry know-how, too.

d) ... or fuck, i wouldn’t put it past titans to introduce ra’s al ghul in a fucking ten second aside

e) anyway, the thing that won’t leave me alone is jason seeking out the joker not necessarily to fight him, but to orchestrate his own death. the whole thing has to have been part of a bigger plan. he broke batman with it, after all. and he’s starting to break the titans, too.

f) i love it! i mean, it does re-tread some of the storybeats we had with deathstroke last season (turning the titans against each other as revenge, etc) but it’s... tighter, this time, and at least for now seems better-executed. and as a red hood story it’s different enough to be really interesting, and i appreciate the ways in which its reframed the revenge story to focus on the titans rather than just the batman. like fuck everything up, i say! turn it on its head! slash the innards out of that sacred cow and strew it like garlands in the path of the Story You Want To Tell!

(and yes i am fully aware that by the time i post this review, there will be a whole lot more information out but if i come across like a fool then goddammit i will be a fool!)

2. i love how every season of titans starts off with, ‘oh dick, you thought you were settling into a role and a life and a pattern of relationships? well fuck you, here’s a terrible and traumatic thing, tons more responsibility, and circumstances that will lead you to uproot your entire life and move somewhere else.’ and dick’s just like, ‘well, ok. fuck you, but all right’.

can you imagine? the man was just settling into leading a team in sf and smiling for the first time in years, and now he has to deal with jason’s death, bruce experiencing a full fledged breakdown, coming back to a city that represents more bad memories than good, red hood, and a frightening new case that seems to be targeting him and his team. it’s a testament to dick’s growth that he’s not reacting to this stress like he did last year, shutting everybody out, making irrational decisions and experiencing sharp, short bursts of anger. (not to mention a full fledged psychotic episode.)

2.5. but i’ve also talked about dick performing a fair amount of unwarranted emotional labour for his team(s) in that he just lets them take out their frustrations on him and... does nothing. be it his team exploding at him for jericho (both in flashback and present-day) or donna and hank needling him for handling deathstroke poorly or barbara berating him for not handling the bank situation as well as she thought batman would though just the previous episode she had talked about how fucked up it was that bruce just expected dick to step up and replace him in gotham without any real notice. i mean it’s all perfectly understandable and sympathetic from their end--and i’m not trying to bash them here!--but hank, my man, the same chin you’re asking your amigo to keep up is the one that you punched last year and never apologised for. just sayin’.

2.75. @superohclair did a wonderful breakdown of what the ‘fear’ contract could imply here and there’s not too much i could add to that. it’s just really interesting that fear ended up being such a defining feature of their lives, albeit it’s the fear of seeming less than invincible in the face of bigger, more tangible fears. am i making sense?  dick feared loss, and abandonment, and the more existential concept of turning into something that he didn’t want to. bruce so feared being alone that he’s scouting kids to replace robin within days of jason dying. 

it also goes some way in explaining the tense sort of... restraint that bruce and dick show in the wake of loss and tragedy, like anything less than complete control of your emotions can lead to tragedy. it’s conditioning that dick couldn’t shake off when he was at his lowest in detroit, hating his legacy but unable to let it go either.

2.775. but i definitely appreciate the softness that dick displays with his team now, checking on them after a mission-gone-bad, welcoming back old members with no caveats or resentments (and kory’s delight in seeing hank back! hank and dick hanging out together and hank trying to prop dick up!), and appreciating their teamwork in solving cases. that’s always been the essence of dick as a person, and the beating heart of this show: flawed and traumatised people coming together to a place that will always be open to them, where they can be their worst and be supported still, allowed to make mistakes and grow from them. that’s family.

2.8. coming back to bruce for just a sec, it’s interesting how that gotham rogue was so certain when he said that ‘batman doesn’t kill’ but it’s not a rule that either jason or dick put much store by when they were robins. the ‘no-killing’ rule clearly didn’t mitigate dick’s fears about turning into batman and jason’s never been seeing giving two shits about it. it seems to me of a piece with bruce’s distant, second-hand sort of parenting that we see in dick’s flashbacks from s1 where the fear was never about personally disappointing batman, but taking lessons from him on finding a place in gotham’s hellish ecosystem and surviving.

3. kory having waking flashbacks! i don’t buy the bullshit parasomnia episode explanation from fake!HPG (because c’mon, justin has to be some sort of tamaranean ruse) because for one, you have to be actually asleep for that diagnosis. 

(and here i was, hoping against hope that HPG would actually end up as the team’s therapist)

curiouser and curiouser! i wonder if these flashbacks are from the time between kory landing on earth and the beginning of season 1, when she was completely amnesiac? it’d be cool if the show was considering repercussions from that time, and if kory hasn’t gained all her memories back. 

4. i just love the vibes between gar and conner and kory. gar Having Things To Do is only one part of my wishlist for him, however: other parts include having an actual story arc, and actually bonding with members who are not conner and kory. (dick! dick! hank! dick!)

anyway. time to move on to watching ep3 and seeing this family bond and nothing terrible and tragic happening at all, nope, nosiree.