#discourse and discussion (tropes)

[allthingswhumpyandangsty]

fanfic writing culture isn’t “oh dang! I wanted to write about this prompt with this character but someone else already wrote it, so now I can’t”.

fanfic writing culture is always “two cakes is better than one. the more the merrier. there can ever be enough fics of this character with this prompt!”

[questions-about-blorbos]

Trigger warning: rape/ non-con, violence, murder

Every poll on this blog is about fictional characters only. This request was sent to us and we made a poll in response to it. Send any Blorbo/fandom-related question you want to our inbox and we’ll make a poll on which people can vote

[zoanzon]

I can't believe that for how deep I've gone into the Jentry Chau vs the Underworld tag I've gone, I haven't seen anyone gushing about the eyes in Diyu

God I love eldritch locations that are described as being alive and have dozens of eyes acting as the backdrop

[swordscleric]

I can't stop thinking about the post from a few days ago about how Critical Role has been great at doing personal faith but didn't put the necessary work in to discuss the religious/god angle of c3 in-depth. Like the fact that Cardinal Respa was linked to both the Dawnfather and the Chained Oblivion is, on a personal level, very interesting (fallen/corrupted priest goes hard) but like does that mean that there's a Papacy somewhere in Exandria dedicated to the Dawnfather? If so, are there more cardinals who ordain the bishops of the Dawnfather? Are there Conclave-level intrigues going on in the Dawnfather's Sistine Chapel? Why is the Dawnfather so Christianity-coded in vibes alone if there's no actual outline of his religious organisations? With Downfall the Dawnchild/Dawnfather thing makes the allusions to Christ as Son of God co-existing with the Father textual - was there a Dawnfather Schism around whether the Dawnchild was a separate mortal? Was there a Reformation about how the Dawnfather's Pope kept selling indulgences? Is that why the priest of the Dawnfather Grog & Pike offer a drink to doesn't partake because of a cultural shift between Protestant-Temperance-League-coded and Catholic-coded Dawnfather congregations? Why do I have so many questions about the religious organisation of one of the most important Prime Deities in Exandria and to Critical Role's 3 campaigns? How on earth were the cast (and us as the viewers!) meant to care about the gods if all they had were "really tall kings" instead of interrogating how religious organisations provide both a place of healing and community to a wide range of people and also a place of horrific harm and abuse for a wide range of people?

[ghostinacardboardbox]

do you mind if i toss my hat in the ring as a jewish person rq? i feel like the whole antisemitism in cinderellas castle convo is completely dominated by goyim but i just wanted to bring up my thoughts on the situation.... i feel like in the modern age we forget how much antisemitism is completely imbedded into western folklore, european inspired fantasy coming off as antisemitic is almost inevitable if im going to be fr. doesnt make critiquing it in CC *invalid* ofc, its important to point out and critique, but it feels incredibly icky when a bunch of goys (not you specifically, your posts are quite thoughtful) act like starkid specifically made up the concept of "hook-nosed trolls" and filthy monsters sneaking into society wearing human skin rather than falling into unfortunate pitfalls that are baked into the genre....

Absolutely!! It’s a really good point. That’s also why I genuinely believe none of it was on purpose. They didn’t invent the tropes. It’s very much important to remember that it’s baked into the genre; these are tropes that have existed for centuries. They are not unique to Starkid, and if I ever implied they were, I want to make it clear that was not my intention.

I have been posting a lot but also very much do not want to be taking over the conversation, so I’m very grateful for this ask and your perspective.

[epitome-of-an-openbook]

Okay AO3 users, I have a question on opinions surrounding a specific tag in a specific instance and that is this:

If you can, I would also appreciate it if you specified if you are a writer or reader in the tags.

[wherechaoswins]

Be Cool. Just Be Cool

I: Okay, we are not going to embarrass ourselves this time. She’s just standing there. Breathing. Looking like Greek mythology sculpted her out of moonlight. Me: And now you’re being poetic? Oh, we’re doomed. I: Shut up. We can do this. Say something suave. Charismatic. Like— Me: “Do you like… chairs?” Because that’s what you said last time. I: That was a strategic misfire! Focus. She’s looking at us. Is she smiling? Me: Her mouth moved. It might’ve been a smirk. That counts, right? I: Maybe she likes awkward guys. Maybe she finds rambling endearing. Me: Then we are killing it already. I: Okay, new plan. Compliment her eyes. But not in a creepy way. Don’t say “orbs.” Me: Definitely don’t say “orbs.” I (out loud): “Hey. You’ve got... really articulate eye contact.” Me: Oh god.

She laughs. Not at me. I think. And then she says, “That’s the weirdest compliment I’ve ever gotten.”

Which is code for: interesting. Right?

Right??

[chubbibunni]

Hey man could you maybe write some personality in that character besides being arm candy to another male lead and maybe explore his insecurities and strengths and how the horrors™️ bring out both sides of him thanks

[shorthaltsjester]

being a huge fan of tlou but also like. thinking that certain stories are built for certain mediums. like the entire theme of tlou2 is grounded and fresh because it’s a railroad/story video game that still affords you mechanical choices in how you navigate the world. i just don’t have a lot of confidence that presenting that story in a tv show with the minimal adjustments that they did in s1 will be fulfilling or compelling in any comparable way. because with tlou1 some of the like. beauty of that story was simply that it was such an emotive story contained in the medium of video games. and some of that was retained just by hitting similar or expanded emotional beats in the show, like the episodes that expanded on the life of the characters and the realities of that world. but truly so much of tlou2 emotional depth and ‘why does this story matter’ rests in the fact that’s it’s your hands on the controller, continually choosing to go forward in the story and have hope that it will work out in your-as-ellie-or-abby-or-somehow-booth’s favour. and you simply cannot get that in a non-interactive medium like television. like i do think tlou2 is a good story but it’s a good story because of the investment required by the player to keep pressing buttons and keep returning and to feel the adrenaline like responses of high intensity moments and be jarringly shifted into backstories that only increase the frustration. in general i’ve been thinking a lot about cross-medium adaptation and on the one hand i am glad that season 1 makes the story of the last of us more accessible to people who wouldn’t pick up a video game but it’s also like. maybe instead we can destigmatize video games as this inaccessible and dangerous medium a bit more instead of just . implicitly agreeing . like no maybe your mom won’t pick up a video game controller and play the last of us . but maybe you can play the game in the living room. sometimes the mediums that stories are told in aren’t just important but are actually foundational parts of how the information of a story is conveyed and that’s not only okay but is fucking fantastic. we should be happy actually that there are so many ways to collect a bunch of themes and ideas and put them together and hold them out to someone else and say “won’t you consider this with me. won’t you feel these emotions and care about these characters with me.”

[zoanzon]

I just posted about the aesthetic of Diyu and my surprise others aren't thirsting over it in the Jentry Chau vs the Underworld tag, but adjacent to that...

Why is no one else losing their mind over the miniature corruption arc and its aesthetics?!?!

I'm not saying a damn thing about the writing, or her character arc, or her being able to overpower the mougi where neither Mister Cheng nor her mother had been able to...

I'm just saying goddamn, that aesthetic!

[nostalgic-soda]

New rule: if you claim to love a ship you need to submit a five page minimum, times new Roman, 12 size double spaced essay explaining why (with citations)

[frostfires-blog]

Hello, kindred spirit!

Do you know how precious you are? I mean you're like a rare gemstone. Not only you're a shoujosei fan but also shounen and danmei fan, too? So cool…! You'll be surprise when founding out how excited I am knowing, you're also a multishipper 😆😆

I can totally relate how hard it is to ship something from our childhood, like what you said about Naruto. But for me, because most of the moots from my BL group are NaruSasu & SasuNaru fans, so after I became m/m shipper and BL fan, I rewatch and reread Naruto series. Yes! Now I can totally see and understand why this ship have such a big fanbase.

Now I'm also NaruSasu shipper mostly because I love the fanfics and fanarts (sorry if it's weird to you).

After that, I start to rewatch and reread some of my favorite series, too. And WOW! I can see m/m & f/f non canon ships from those series.

I knew you love Kimi ni Todoke, Fruits Basket, Chihayafuru and Ouran High School Host Club. I am, too (they're my favorite since middle school).

So, can I ask, what do you think about these ships :

Kurumi/Sawako (so Kurumi end up with Sawako's cousin because he remind her of Sawako? How can I not ship Sawako and Kurumi. She should be in yuri.)

Uotani/Hanajima (even before I became m/m shipper, I always think Uotani and Hanajima's relationship are so beautiful. And I dislike that Uotani end up with that guy, Kureno).

Yuki/Kakeru (never been a fan of Machi, don't know why, just don't like her. Don't mean anything negative. I always love Kakeru and used to think that if Kakeru were a girl, I'll ship Kakeru with Yuki. Now I love reading their m/m fics).

Yuki/Kyo (I start shipping them, after I read Fruits Basket : Another. I mean seeing Kyo's son with Yuki's son are so cute. I ship them hard!! And because I got fic rec of Yuki/Kyo, that I love so much).

Tamaki/Kyoya (now I can totally see the one that Kyoya love will always be Tamaki and never been Haruhi. My moot said without Haruhi in the picture, Kyoya and Tamaki can be like friends to lovers in BL. And there are KyoTama fics that are beautiful).

Chihaya/Shinobu and Arata/Taichi. Chihayafuru is my favorite josei ever! But I can't help to ship them after reread. Because somehow the dynamics between the same sex characters are so good!

Maybe because I live in anti LGBTQ country with homophobic family and friends, that I felt so happy and excited when got into shipping m/m & f/f ships. There is not a day, I'm not reading BL & GL manga/manhwa or m/m & f/f fics of my fav canon & non-canon ships.

This does not mean that I dislike the canon m/f ships of those series, please don't worry, Frost.

KazeSawa, TamaHaru, TaiChihaya & KyoRu are the best! They'll always be my favorite het ships ever, along with HakYona! (OMG the update is so beautiful…Can't believe that Akatsuki no Yona will end up soon)

So I still like the canon het ships from most series, but now I can see the subtext or potential of the m/m and f/f ships….

For Naruto, I never like Sasuke/Sakura and I'm not a Hinata fan, too (double sorry, I know you like NaruHina). I used to be a Naruto/Sakura and Shikamaru/Ino shipper (I don't know why but I love them so much when I was younger). The only canon ship that I love from this series is only Minato/Kushina.

The same with Yuki/Kakeru ship from FruBa, I used to think that if either Naruto or Sasuke were a woman than I'll ship them. Because then they will end up as 'normal' m/f ship… Now I'm 100% Naruto/Sasuke shipper. They're really are the classic m/m ship that have inspired many doujins! I'm surprised to know that Naruto series have made many of my moots become BL/Yaoi lover. They said that Naruto is their 'awakening' to m/m ships ��😂

I know this is random, but I hope you don't mind with my recommendation of these josei anime/manga that have strong homoerotic subtext, so you can't help but ship them but the m/m ships are not canon (the series end up with het relationships) :

♡ Kids on the Slope It's a drama/ slice of life story about 3 high school kids (2 guys and 1 girl). At first it looks like a classic love triangle until it doesn't. If you watch the anime, you can enjoy the jazz, too (love the music in this series). The dynamic between Kaoru and Sentarou are so good!

♡ Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinju Whether you read the manga or watch the anime, it's a masterpiece. After you enjoy this, you'll learn something about life and death all in the rakugo form. Kikuhiko and Sukeroku's relationship are so bittersweet!

Oh I hope you enjoy Thousand Autumns, Frost. If you don't mind me sharing, I have a fav fic of Shen Qiao/Yan Wushi, in royalty setting, no power (so good)! Just FYI, the author of that danmei also wrote another historical danmei : The Fourteenth Year of Chenghua or The Sleuth of Ming Dynasty (it has cdrama, too)….Maybe you'll love it after watching the series.

Sorry for this long ask. Hope you have a nice day…

-> Introduction:

Hi, thanks for sending in an ask! You're so sweet! Is that a Honey Lemon Soda reference?! I'm glad that there's another person who likes shoujosei, shounen and danmei! Too many people limit themselves to one while criticising the others when they could be enjoying the strong points of each one.

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-> 1.) Naruto × Sasuke

SasaNaru/NaruSasu is one of the few ships I highly respect even if I don't personally ship them. They have such a complex dynamic as well as a plethora of complementary symbolism and canonical basis. They are one of my all-time favourite duos in anime. I totally understand where you're coming from given that it was because of a former friend that I got into BL in the first place. I will say that whenever I rewatch scenes from Naruto I'm really amazed at how blind I was... I watched some of my favourite OPs and EDs the other day and a lot of them are practically romantic AMVs for the ship—if only Bones Studio would give BakuDeku that treatment... The more I reminisce on things, the more I feel like if I were to watch the series with a fresh perspective today, I would've shipped them.

Tbh I haven't read—or written—Naruto fanfiction in a long time... I used to read so many back then that I still feel burnt out... Given SasaNaru/NaruSasu's popularity I'm sure there's a ton of great content out there. Maybe there's still hope for me since after I fully rewatched Hunter × Hunter, I became a KilluGon shipper. Although it was admittedly easier for me since they didn't have any canonical love interests—and I didn't ship either of them with anyone else beforehand.

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-> 2.) Opinions on various ships:

It may seem weird, but I oftentimes separately compartmentalise F/M romance anime from M/M or F/F romance anime... So, the only time I'm really actively weighing F/M against M/M and F/F rival ships is in non-romance-centric series like battle-shounen anime. It doesn't come from a place of heteronormativity but it's rather a defence mechanism of sorts—to not get attached to for example an M/M ship in an obviously F/M ship romance series. Though I've since realised that said standpoint is hypocritical since it's practically a given that M/M ships won't be made official in battle-shounen manga.

I've slowly come to the realisation that shipping isn't about finding a hill to die on or fighting for canonical confirmation for your ship... It's about expressing your interest in a ship you were drawn to, no matter the reason or its canonical basis. Sure, there will always be some ships that have me going, "Why on God's green earth would people ship those two?" But I have no right to disparage others for their choices. So, I need to rewatch a lot of series and re-evaluate things since I'm sure there's a lot I didn't pick up on. That being said you picked a lot of good ones...

> 2.1) Kurumi × Sawako:

Although I said that I don't really take notice of F/F/ or M/M when watching/reading shoujosei F/M romance animanga—these two are kind of an exception. Admittedly, it was only really when I started reading the manga, especially the sequel, that I took notice of the romantic undertones between these too... I like the dynamic they have, and Kurumi would probably be my second pick for Sawako.

That being said, Kazehaya × Sawako has a special place in my heart. I'm really fond of Eiji as well—I swear he was the only reason I powered through Crazy For You. Although Kurumi first notices him because he is similar to Sawako, Eiji complements Kurumi in a different way than Sawako does. Eiji's surety, maturity and assertiveness temper Kurumi's tempestuousness and bring out her earnestness. Sawako's compassion and sensitivity soften Kurumi's wilfulness, resulting in reflection and growth. With Sawako, Kurumi is assertive and protective—but with Eiji, she is able to be vulnerable and transparent.

> 2.2) Uotani × Hanajima:

Although Fruits Basket is my favourite shoujo anime, it admittedly has a few problematic elements—such as its depiction of age-gap relationships. I've never been a fan of Kureno × Uotani or Kazuma × Hanajima—thank goodness the latter was never made canon. Although I have never really noticed any romantic developments between Uotani and Hanajima and regard them more as friends, I could certainly support it more than their canonical endings.

> 2.3) Yuki × Kakeru:

Admittedly the first time I watched Fruits Basket I didn't really pick up on this ship at all—which retrospectively had more to do with me not liking Kakeru than thinking that the ship didn't have potential. Since I know someone will ask, I'll briefly explain why I didn't like Kakeru at first... He is almost the complete opposite of me in terms of personality, so I struggled to grasp his character and motivations well. I was particularly taken aback by his apparent contempt towards Tohru, which was never properly explained in the anime. After reading manga spoilers online and rewatching the anime, I have a better understanding of his character and find him more likeable. Consequently, when rewatching the series, this pairing stood out a lot more. They have an intriguing dynamic—more specifically, they are an amalgamation of several enjoyable tropes and complement each other well. Unexpectedly I've grown to slightly prefer them over Yuki × Machi...

> 2.3.1) Yuki × Machi

(*this wasn't in your list but since you mentioned them later in your comment, I felt that I had to briefly touch on them..)

In my opinion, Yuki × Machi is a decent pairing but it's almost as if I like the idea of them more than I actually like them. In other words although said pairing works really well in theory, it was not developed and integrated into the series well enough to realise its full potential.

Although they complement each other well—albeit in a way different to Yuki × Kakeru—they were not given enough time and development. Yuki spent a considerable portion of the series contemplating his dynamic with Tohru until his focus shifted to putting himself out there and resolving his issues with the Sohma family—all of which leaves very little time to explore his relationship with Machi.

They have a subtle chemistry—that stems from a blend of classic tropes—in addition to having a few memorable and distinctive scenes (i.e. the chalk scene). However it often feels like Machi only exists to be a love interest for Yuki. This is mostly because she doesn't have any substantial connections with any of the other reoccurring characters—aside from Kakeru. I understand that this isolation is primarily due to her past, but I would have preferred to see her character develop gradually over the course of the series, in tandem with Yuki's development.

I also want to note that I didn't like how similar Machi's character design is to Tohru and how similar her character palate is to Yuki's. Don't get me wrong, I still like Machi and her relationship with Yuki, but I do have some issues with how their relationship was portrayed.

> 2.4) Yuki × Kyo:

Given my taste in M/M pairings, you might think that I'd like Yuki × Kyo—but I sadly don't, as in my mind, tension and rivalry don't always translate into romantic tension. While Kyo and Yuki are foils of one another and thus have a lot of complementary symbolism, I just could never get behind these two as a couple. I might be biased because KyoRu means the world to me, but I just couldn't see Kyo and Yuki building a healthy and equal romantic partnership. Their dynamic is fraught with a lot of heavy emotions that would necessitate a considerable amount of time and effort to work through and overcome. Several people fail to recognise that the resentment that has developed between them is not solely the result of misunderstandings and external factors, but also partially due to each of their respective traits.

One of my favourite aspects of Kyo and Tohru's relationship is that their innate temperaments help to balance and ground the other, allowing them to work through their respective hardships and insecurities. On the other hand, Kyo and Yuki mostly seem to exacerbate each other's flaws. That being said, as I haven't read the original manga or Fruits Basket Another, I can only base my thoughts on the anime... I do like their dynamic in a platonic sense and think that given time and effort they could cultivate a solid friendship.

> 2.5) Tamaki × Kyoya:

To be honest I've never been overly fond of Ouran High School Host Club or any of its characters—aside from Haruhi. It's a decent series and has a lot of memorable comedic moments (i.e. I quote the commoner's coffee line at least once a week and still listen to the OP and ED.)

The series has just never appealed to me as much as other shoujosei series have... Is that because the series consists of a bunch of tropes and dynamics that I don't typically gravitate to? Probably. Or is it because I took it too seriously as I was too immature to pick up on some of its veiled criticism of several problematic tropes at the time I watched it? Also probably.

That being said, I have always low-key preferred Tamaki × Kyoya to Tamaki × Haruhi—even though the latter pair has a likable and decently developed dynamic. While they're not ranked among my favourite M/M pairings, Tamaki × Kyoya has a decent canonical basis and consist of several tropes that I'm fond of.

> 2.6) Chihaya × Shinobu:

To be honest when watching Chihayafuru I was so fixated on the Tachi/Chihaya/Arata love triangle that I didn't even consider that there were other options... I have never seen a love triangle as unpredictable and compelling—the only series that come close in this regard are Fruits Basket, Who Made Me A Princess and Nina: The Starry Bride.

In retrospect Chihaya and Shinobu have a good dynamic, I just haven't seen enough of them to fully support them as a couple... I'm guessing that they probably have more interactions in the manga—and I know I should read the manga, it's just that I never get around to it. Also I'm probably biased since Taichi × Chihaya is one of my top 30 favourite ships...

> 2.7) Arata × Taichi:

Similar to the above, I've never really thought about them in a romantic context before so I don't quite know what to think... Although I suppose I could understand this a little more—primarily because they have more canonical basis and complexity.

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-> 3.) Experiences that come with Shipping LGBTQ ships

While I don't live in an anti-LGBTQ country, in a lot of places things are still very heteronormative, so I can somewhat relate. My own parents think that "what other people do in their households is their business"—but have complex feelings on the subject as it goes against their religious beliefs. Naturally, they don't know that I'm fond of a few LGBTQ pairings—even though both of them have seen a few anime series with me and know that I enjoy shipping.

Kinda off topic but I'm lowkey worried that I'm going to fly too close to the sun one day... For example, my mom often has me tell her about the storylines of some of the series I read/watch since she's bored but doesn't have time to read/watch things herself... Given that I don't know anyone in person who reads danmei and was eager to talk to someone about TGCF when she noticed HuaLian on my desktop background, I told her about it. Although I obviously changed some elements and left out names and identifying information, it appears that I sold it too well, and she really wanted to watch it... Consequently, I had to dissuade her by highlighting aspects of the series she wouldn't like. She's still salty about it and nags me about it from time to time.

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-> Conclusion:

Thanks for the recommendations, I'll check them out when I'm able to. I really want to start clearing my watchlist sometime soon... I've kind of already started working on it by watching Maquia and Medalist. Also, I don't know if already mentioned this but I've actually finished Thousand Autumns! I finished the series just over two weeks ago but have been dragging my feet with the extras and only just finished those... It took me so long because I believed that if I didn't finish the extras, I wouldn't feel the bittersweet sense of finality that comes with finishing a series. For reference it took me nearly a year to finish all of the MXTX extras for those same reasons haha... So, if you want to send me fanfic recommendations, I'm game. Once again, I apologise that it's taken me this long to post my answer... Thanks for all your support!

[dexjarxenoengage]

Veyle’s other self: the difference between the altered mind and the other self.

When we look at the aspect of Mind Control as a whole, it is the simple act of altering one’s thoughts to perfectly align with the controller’s wishes. While Fire Emblem itself usually voluntarily just uses mind control to get a (usually female) character to do what the bad guy wants them to do, the mind control trope itself is actually far more variable and complex than what you may think https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MindControl.

Beyond just that, the case of a certain Fire Emblem Engage character is a more interesting case than what some may say. Enter Veyle, who is my personal favorite Fire Emblem Engage character. A lot of people have complained that her evil personality in the words of TVTropes “cheaply removes agency from the real Veyle so she can be entirely sympathetic.” To that I say, what if I told you that that’s the point?

When it comes to Veyle’s story of abuse and control, there are three things we need to take into consideration: 1. Sombron’s control over Veyle’s life. 2. How the other Veyle is supposed to work and 3.(very important) Veyle’s accountability.

The best place to start talking about Veyle’s life of oppression is with the oppressor himself. The Fell Dragon Sombron, Veyle’s (and Alear’s) biological father. In case if it wasn’t obvious from his introduction in Chapter 10, to Sombron, everyone that he comes across (his children, the Four Hounds, and even his followers) are nothing more than pawns at best and tools at worst. Once Sombron has no use for you, you’re just deadweight (emphasis on the dead part). The end of chapter 24 also displays how he sees his children:

So right from the start, of course Veyle was stripped of her agency; she was living under a jerk that only saw his children as worthless slaves. Why would Sombron allow someone he considers to be a pawn to be allowed the chance to decide their own lives? Remember how Sombron rewarded Hyacinth for aiding his revival? He was eaten alive for it…

As a matter of fact, when it comes to Sombron’s control over others, it also foils how Sombron strips an Emblem of their free will when using an invocation on them. This represents the dominance he has over his children just for simply being their father.

This isn’t helped by the fact that the Four Hounds are all followers of the Fell Dragon (Sombron). This is especially the case of Zephia and Griss. Their reasons for treating Veyle as a “defect” is because she lacks the qualities they expected from someone who is Sombron’s child. In other words, they see Veyle as an extension of Sombron.

Zephia (Sombron’s most devoted follower) and Griss (who follows Zephia) only act nice to the good Veyle in order to keep her trapped. So that once Zephia’s spell takes full effect, the real Veyle would be erased and the other Veyle would take her place.

Griss really followed Veyle (EVeyle) so that he could get pain as offering to the Fell Dragon. It now makes sense why he was following Veyle and considers her good side to be a defect. Just Sombron and Zephia, Griss was forcing his expectations onto her.

The mere fact that the Hounds were followers of her father Sombron means that Veyle was going to be trapped by him no matter how many times she tries to run or defy his orders. Sombron will have control over Veyle’s life one way or another. For Veyle, there was never such a thing as being able to control her own life (no agency). Because Sombron is the one who had control over it. The Four Hounds exist to keep her trapped under the rule of her abusive father.

Like I said before, just simply being the daughter of the Fell Dragon allows Sombron to have control over Veyle even when not directly there. As Veyle lost her mother and was forced to go into hiding because of the persecution she suffered from the humans.

This leads into Veyle’s other personality EVeyle. This is not just another mind control situation. EVeyle is her own person with her own thoughts and feelings. She isn’t just some mindless robot who can’t think without someone else doing the thinking.

EVeyle feels more like a Shadow from the works of Carl Jung (referenced in the Persona series, 2 and 4 more specifically). A shadow is the innermost emotional cores that lie deep within our psyche. Often representing the sides of ourselves we wish to hide from others.

EVeyle represents Veyle’s inner hate for humans, her innate desire for Sombron’s acknowledgement, and her fear of becoming a monster. Zephia uses her power to tamper with her heart to create her other self. The other Veyle is the embodiment of Sombron’s will.

Even EVeyle says that she is “the real Veyle.” This is a common word choice for shadow archetypes. Representing the darker paths that we as individuals are at risk of taking.

Yu's vocals: You and I we ain't so different

I guess I had more blessings

Without it, got belligerent

But I totally understand

Glass was half full for mine

Adachi's vocals: And it looked half empty for me

Both: Maybe that one glass made the path we took, who knows?

— "Yin Yang", Persona 4: The Golden Animation

As Zephia’s actions with tampering with her Draconic Impulses implies, Zephia was just stimulating the feelings that Veyle held inside of her. EVeyle’s hatred towards humans, her desire to please her father, and her fear of what she would become as a result, etc.

Terra: What did I do? What did YOU do?

Maleficent: You speak as if I pulled some invisible strings. No, you couldn't be further from the truth, child. I simply whispered to the darkness you already held inside.

— Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep

As for EVeyle having a personality, Veyle’s supports with Ivy and Hortensia confirm that Evil Veyle liked Sweets. While the real Veyle likes Spicy foods. This is the moment where Hortensia truly begins to accept the real Veyle as the true Veyle.

In the case where this was a similar situation with Hortensia or Invoked Emblems, EVeyle would be a mindless husk incapable of having the capacity for liking or disliking anything. She would have no emotions whatsoever. Would a mindless person have the ability to beg for their life and say “I don’t want to die” with such emotions? I don’t think so.

But the most important aspect about Veyle’s character comes after she finally wins her agency back: her desire to atone for her (EVeyle’s) sins. A choice that she is making for herself. Not because anyone is asking/forcing her to do it.

Veyle’s supports and the rest of the game are focused on her atoning. Veyle could have just blamed all of the bad things that happened onto Sombron, Zephia and/or her evil self. But when it comes down to it, Veyle chooses to atone.

One could say that it’s out of self hatred, and while this may be true, this is another reason why I compared EVeyle to be a shadow. She still treats EVeyle as her own weakness. Something that, if it didn’t overcome her, then everything that happened could have been avoided.

The puzzling question is can one still be hold accountable for circumstances they have no control over? The circumstances may vary, but in the case of Veyle, because EVeyle is the darkness in her heart, she has to make the choice to fight to prove she is more than what others say.

In fact, Veyle was very close to choosing the easy way out and accepting death just to be with her sibling Alear who just died protecting her. And even then, she didn’t blame the world, Sombron or Zephia for the suffering she endured.

It isn’t until Alear (who also suffered from Sombron’s abuse) faces his own struggles that he learned to understand and accept Veyle. And this act of forgiveness would be the first step in saving the world and (more importantly, in that moment) mend their broken relationship.

Regardless if Veyle deserves credit for all that has happened or not, it’s as Sigurd said to Alear and Seliph; truth is subjective and there can’t be one single truth either. We have to see the bigger picture in order to truly understand each other.

If Lumera was in her right state of mind at the time and knew the full truth about Veyle, I’m sure Lumera would have forgiven Veyle without a second thought. And I’m sure Alear forgiving Veyle is what the real Lumera would have wanted too.

Veyle doesn’t deserve forgiveness for being a victim of Sombron’s abuse. Veyle deserves it because she herself made the choice and effort to make things right, to atone, to change… even before chapter 22, she already had the potential to be a hero…

And that’s more than I can say for Sombron and Zephia, who made no effort to repent whatsoever and continued to live in their selfish ways until the very end. In the words of Ike: “they’ll get no sympathy from me.”

So overall, I say screw TVTropes take here. Veyle fighting to get her agency back is the point, EVeyle actually has more depth than you think, and above all else, she’s sympathetic because she chose atonement when she could have hid behind her excuse. That’s just my opinion though.

[wherechaoswins]

Trying to Impress a Goddess (Badly)

I: She’s sitting over there, legs crossed like a queen, and I’m over here sweating like a garden gnome in July. Me: Say something clever. Smooth. Or just… anything that isn’t weird. I: “Are you an astronomer? Because you just eclipsed my anxiety.” Me: NO. No more metaphors. No more space jokes. I: But they work on Tumblr— Me: This isn’t a fic, this is REAL LIFE. Stop monologuing!

I walk up anyway, ignoring every survival instinct. She looks up.

Me: Abort mission. Her eyeliner could cut glass. I (out loud): “Sorry. I just wanted to tell you your presence is… gravitational.” Me: …At least die with dignity.

She smiles. Not mockingly. It’s soft. Curious. She tilts her head like she’s intrigued and says, “Is that a pickup line or a physics pun?”

I: “Both. I’m multi-talented.”

She laughs again. This time, I swear there’s a spark.

Me: Maybe she is a fic character. I: Maybe she’s mine.

[blood-starved-beast]

Glad that Lady Maria of the Astral Clocktower is a failed girl prince askpost is spreading. Like

[ct-hardcase]

discussion about years-old discourse that I'd rather not be reblogged below:

another thing I've seen while scrolling the fnnrey tag on twitter is the argument from rylos who seem to mostly have done their fandom on twitter, and say that fnnrey spaces were actively hostile to rylos, which. I'll grant that. That's fair. I saw a lot of places where it would've been very difficult to multiship the pairs and I'll own up to that. But, I feel like another piece of the puzzle that I almost never see mentioned in the Discourse (tm) is that at least part of the reason the (at least tumblr) fnnrey fandom was so hostile about multishipping was due the inescapable crosstagging that primarily featured rylo works, which in some cases masqueraded as multishipping (with barely any of this crosstagged work featuring both ships equally, if at all) rendering it damn near impossible to do the "if you don't like [a ship/character], just block the tag!" thing that a lot of people in fandom discourse spaces preach. In the ST fandom heyday, I'd blocked that ship tag, and I'd even blocked iterations of k*lo/b*n's name, but fanworks of that ship were always popping up in the fnnrey/jsp/fnnpoe/klux/KoR tags, and I think that short of blocking r*y's name, I couldn't avoid it. That gets really irritating after a while, and while I think that a lot of the discourse (in both directions) was excessive, I don't think being annoyed at the complete inability to avoid a notp is unjustified.