#masc exclusionary

[lurkiestvoid]

"transmisandry/transandrophobia does NOT exist!! transmascs can ONLY experience TRANSMISOGYNY"

---> tagged "tme"

[manicmoonworld]

Who's really at home and alone right now ?

Want to see how hot 🔥 🥵 my gallery could be😜👄🍆

[tiredangrydyke]

When we say “Lesbianism can’t be defined, it is a complex way of life and loving”

Why did you interpret that as “Cis men can be lesbians now and lesbians can like men”

[uncanny-tranny]

you mentioned the "first reansmasc haircut" thing and i gotta say its not just a white thing, i did the same thing lol

I didn't want to be overly presumptuous because hairstyles are incredibly diverse, but... it's nice to know this is a thing we can share regardless of what The Haircut happens to have been 🙏

[skybristle]

prune is a lesbian but him and capsaicin are in love platonically . Also he's in yuri with kouign and kouign is bi as helllll . And they're the worlds most confusing polycule . Do you understand my vision. Grips your shoulders

[knifeslidez]

does anyone else feel like mcrblr's got a kind of aggressive "boys' club" attitude or is it just me?

[ninaeatswaffle]

Please can somebody let me know why TERFs on Twitter love using the genderqueer flag colours and dinosaurs on their profiles to show that they're TERFs?

[your-rutherfurr]

What should we call lesbian and gay attraction?!

So alot of the queer community when talking about lesbian and gay attraction we usually use the 'non-men loving non-men' or 'non-woman loving non-woman' definition which we found out that it's quite exclusionary for multigender people who also are boys and/or girls, not to mention the racist roots😬. So what could we put it as then? I mean it's kinda obvious but it's simply the queer attraction to women/men and feminine/masculine aligned ppl, anything but the hetero attraction. So let me introduce you to the more inclusive terms I came up with...

QAM and QAW!

QAM = Queer Attraction to Men/masc aligned

QAW = Queer attraction to women/fem aligned

How to pronounce these terms?

QAM - kwam or kam

QAW - kaw or even claw 🤷‍♂️

Being a part of the queer community we want to include ALL queer ppl and their wonderful experiences, I know it's nearly impossible to include every single experience out there but I'm willing to try! We don't have to know every single identity under the sun but we can be aware that there are a plethora of experiences out there and more to come.

[genderkoolaid]

i havent seen ppl say t4t is trans fem exclusive as in only they can use it, but i have seen ppl say that its only ok for trans fems to be t4t bc they are t4t for safety and trans mascs are only t4t bc they want to feel special/oppressed or bc theyre secretly tirfs or bc theyre trans masc supremacists (yes i saw that exact phrasing). i think you reblogged a post where someone was talking abt how transphobic calling t4t gay transmasc relationships pussy4pussy? its basically that

[different anon] ive seen some trans fems on twitter say that t4t should be trans fem exclusive bc all trans men are transmisogynistic and they want nothing to do with them etc., so like lowkey baeddel rhetoric. but its only a small minority and i havent seen anyone actually say its trans fem only, just that they wish it was.

Ahhh yes of course. The ol "transmascs don't face the danger transfems do and also are all trans/misogynistic wannabes." Especially fun in the wake of two trans men being murdered by cis partners.

Also this all feels. very exclusionary towards MLW/WLM trans people, especially transhets. But that also fits in with the general radfem idea of "men are evil forever so you have to be a lesbian regardless of how you feel because its the only ideologically pure relationship you can have."

[purplenidoqueen]

not to mention tme/tma is no fucking gender binary, the groups “transfems” and “non transfems; cis men, cis women, trans men, some nonbinary people, etc” is not a binary at all. if you don’t know what the terms mean or aren’t experienced with transfeminism, that’s fine, but don’t act like i hate men because you misunderstood my feminism.

The reblog that garnered these messages can be found here, and part one is here. Sorry if the tone was too sharp; I'm not super comfy playing defense for those who aren't here to defend themselves, but I'm sure as heck willing to do my best. I'd explained at the end of the post that garnered these responses that I am also a trans woman, but I don't mind that you missed it; I just feel that said experience is something to keep in mind.

Since this was split into two messages I'll have to respond in two parts, so bear with me. While I don't have much of an audience, it's important to me to head this off, so I'd appreciate it if anyone who reads this and agrees with my stances here also walks away with the message of patience and solidarity, and doesn't send messages her way for whatever reason. This isn't a callout and I don't believe in callouts; this is just how the inbox function works.

Anyway! Second:

"If you don't know what the terms mean"… I understand that some find comfort in the terms, but "transmisogyny exempt" and "transmisogyny affected" are years old and have gone through a number of phases. While they were well-intentioned at first, TMA and TME swiftly changed from inclusive terms to exclusive ones, used not only by trans women to exclude others from our struggle, but by others to exclude us from their own struggles. In many ways they are bullshit terms adopted and adapted by terfs and their allies, and when I say they are used to reinforce the gender binary, I mean it. They've been used at length to pit trans men, trans mascs, and AFAB nonbinary folk against us in an attempt to make detransition look more practical.

As for whether TMA/TME has any weight: Do you understand how many cis women have been hurt by transmisogyny? You can find stories about women ranging from Michelle Obama and Lady Gaga to Marie MacGowan, an eighty-six-year-old Irish cis woman with dementia who was assaulted and beaten by a transphobe for over forty minutes straight. Even men and mascs, cis or trans, can be hit by forms of transmisogyny if they don't meet the standards of masculinity to which society holds them! Trans men are routinely mistaken to be trans women and attacked by people who misunderstand the situation because only trans women have the spotlight in this patriarchal society! That's not to mention the complexities of growing up intersex, whether or not their lives were changed without their consent by "corrective" surgeries as infants. The binary of "affected" or "exempt" is too tidy to have much use. Fear-based hatred is too complicated.

Transmisogyny is a form of transphobia, which is at its root a form of homophobia, and we have to understand that segregating each other's experiences into exclusionary groups rather than inclusive ones is incredibly unproductive -- and exactly what the terfs, traditionalists, and other fascists are trying to enforce.

On the subject of transphobia as a whole vs transmisogyny, I was trying not to bring this up, but it's the only way I can think of to boil down my point in a way that matters. This is the post that convinced me to respond, in the hopes of sharing some thoughts and perspective.

Okay. This is important for one main reason: Why do you think it would be bizarre or noteworthy for trans men to react negatively to this tweet? I get the point of it, but it's phrased so poorly. Surely you can understand -- maybe you've experienced for yourself -- the feeling that arises when you try to live your happiest life as your chosen gender, only for terfs and their allies to say "You only feel like a X because you're a failed Y." Where does that stem from? Where does it lead? "Trans women are just men who are super gay." "Trans men are just women trying to climb the patriarchal ladder." It's disgusting! Maybe that's not a perspective that occurred to you in the moment, but that's why queer folk from all corners of the community should communicate our experiences to each other, isn't it? If your feminism includes seeing trans men "react bizarrely" to something you didn't understand, and giving them the squinty eyes instead of asking why, then it can't truly be feminism, because it can't truly be about equality.

This whole TME/TMA thing reminds me of the transmedicalist discourse, or of a decade ago when in some circles you weren't considered trans enough and "made the rest of us look bad" if you couldn't, or didn't care to, pass. Butch transfems, a cornerstone of the culture, used to get run out of social groups for being "fake women". It's all about finding the weakest link and cutting them out, over and over until the solidarity of a cohesive queer community becomes a more manageable series of dogpiles against smaller and smaller fragments of GSR minorities. Fuck that. None of us is worth sacrificing, not ace nor kinky nor enby nor queer.

It's been a long pair of long responses. Sorry for the wait, and for the attention. In any case, to boil my thoughts down in the least productive way possible:

"Individually we are weak like a single twig, but as a bundle we form a mighty faggot!"

[antlered-angel]

unpopular opinions about the tumblr queer community

the Tumblr Queer Community is full of white supremacy, misconceptions, misogyny, and toxic masculinity. trans beauty standards are full of skinny white people who lean heavily towards trans women being feminine and trans men being masculine. It’s okay for trans people to lean heavily towards a certain gender presentation, be skinny, and/or be white. However, for it to be a beauty standard is not only exclusionary of POC but also towards those who present in gender nonconforming ways and/or those with different body types. As a feminine trans man of color who isn’t considered skinny, this needs to stop.

Gender may be fluid, but sexuality is not. Not in the same way. You can’t make up sexualities because you don’t want to identify with labels provided. It’s okay to not be into labels, but it’s not okay to create self-contradicting identity-erasing ones because you don’t want to identify yourself with one of the many sexualities that already exist. It lowkey gives lesbophobia in a lot of cases. Speaking of which, lesbian is not an umbrella term, Saphhic is. If you’re a bi person calling yourself a lesbian, relearn what lesbian means. You’re not a lesbian because you have woman-leaning attraction but are attracted to a man every once in a while, you’re sapphic.

Ace people and lesbians are not enemies, in fact a lot of the ace people I meet ARE lesbians

Ya’ll should be nicer to femme lesbians

In general, queer women should be praised just as much for embracing femininity as queer men. The tumblr queer community doesn’t care about lesbians unless they’re masc in any way.

Stop pushing masculinity onto queer women who do not feel comfortable with it. You’re not breaking gender roles, you’re just playing into them and cishet ideals of how queer women should present themselves.

[metalheadsforblacklivesmatter]

Today's contribution for Disability Pride Month

Obligatory "I don't have this disorder. I'm raising awareness because I'm so fucking sick of women that drink while pregnant bitching about how hard it is being an 'autism mom'". (Autism mom in quotes because a) it's probably not autism and b) the phrase "autism mom" to describe "mom if an autistic kid" is stupid.)

(I'm going to use the term "women" instead of "uterus haver" not to be exclusionary or transphobic. But because I have a severe headache effecting my ability to find words. I am trans-masc. Don't cancel me. I'm not a FART.)

(This is not to demonize people that suffer from alcoholism. Addiction is a very real disability. This is to raise awareness for one of the only known preventable birth defects and hopefully seek help.)

Thank you for the people at @bfpnola discord for checking my post to make sure this doesn't sound eugenics-y.

Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD)

FASD (previously known as fetal alcohol syndrome) is a disability that can range from mild to severe dependant on how much the mother drank while pregnant. It only takes one glass of wine while pregnant to cause this disorder

I already know what the fuck this is. Why are you talking about it?

Because your only know about the severe cases diagnosed as fetal alcohol syndrome. You THINK you know what it is. But the reclassification has only come up in like... 2003? Fetal alcohol syndrome is like... the far end worst severity of FASD. And since the new information of it being a spectrum disorder, estimates have the disorder as high as 5% of the population (and I really think it's higher based on some information I'm about to share).

Fine. So what is this... spectrum disorder?

Very good! So this disorder is HIGHLY misdiagnosed as autism. So all those boomers bitching about "the rates of autism going up?" Yeah they probably caused it. Symptoms include low body weight, facial differences, poor coordination, difficulty maintaining attention, poor memory, poor emotional regulation, slower development, poor reasoning skills, issues with the heart, bones, and kidneys, shorter height, shorter head size,

I have all of those things. How do I know it's FASD and not the autism?

That's kinda the issue. The only real way you can know is ask your mom if there's ANY possibility she's had a drink while she was pregnant. I can't stress this enough IT ONLY TAKES ONE DRINK. For instance I have a lot of those issues, but my mom was so paranoid she wouldn't even dye her hair or drink coffee. Like there's NO WAY.

Like what do I do about it?

Mostly get your accommodations met and raise awareness. Like people are still actively drinking while pregnant because they are still under the pre-2000 belief that just a couple of drinks are okay. It's really not. Not to mention most women don't know they're pregnant until 4-6 weeks in. So they shouldn't be drinking if they're actively trying to have a child. Because that increases the risk.

What the fuck. People are drinking while pregnant? I don't believe you.

Each of these claims are linked.

30.3% of all women reported drinking alcohol at some time during pregnancy, of which 8.3% reported binge drinking (4+ drinks on one occasion)

According to the Center for Disease Control, one in 10 (10.2%) of pregnant women in the United States reports drinking alcohol in the past 30 days.

Despite clear evidence that primary prevention of FASD is possible if prenatal alcohol exposure is avoided, up to 80 % of women drink during pregnancy, many before pregnancy recognition

What? Women are drinking while pregnant? That's fucked up.

This is not to say people with FASD are lesser than.

But all of this "curing autism" when most of this "autism" is caused by a pregnant person's ability to stop fucking drinking for literally 5 minutes. THESE WOMEN THAT ARE DRINKING WHILE PREGNANT ARE THE ONES CAUSING ALL OF THIS GIVING "AUTISM". IF YOU DRANK WHILE PREGNANT. IF THERE'S EVEN A SLIVER OF A CHANCE THAT YOUR DRANK WHILE PREGNANT? ITS PROBABLY NOT AUTISM. ITS PROBABLY THIS DISORDER.

I'm just really fed up with all of these "autism moms" that also make "wine mom" jokes and making light of literal alcoholism bitching about how hard it is to be an "autism mom" because YOU'RE THE PROBLEM. STOP LAUGHING ABOUT YOUR ALCOHOLISM AND PUT THE DAMN GLASS DOWN.

But my parents are literally autistic

So they don't really know the generational effect of FASD because the new knowledge is so new. But since FASD is literally genetic issues caused by alcohol while you're in the womb. It's assumed that it can cause issues that are passed down.

But like this diagnosis is SO NEW that we really don't know much.

-fae

[someoneq]

saw a reel on Instagram where someone was saying "just like non-binary people don't owe you androgyny, trans men and mascs don't owe you going on testosterone" and someone in the comments started a thing about how they didn't include transfem people but "not accusing [them] of being exclusionary but it seems like a few in the transmasc community can be towards transfems" (this was someone presumably talking about their own experiences, also half the reel was about their scorpion nose stud tbh)

other people pointed out that not saying something in a short video doesn't equal exclusion and that transfems can and do make the same points in relation to oestrogen but to me it (the original comment saying they have to include transfems) feels like stirring shit for the sake of it rather than actually trying to include transfems

[olderthannetfic]

I'm a German speaker. I recently found out about a term that's trying to cover the experience of a certain type of group "FLINTA" which stands for Frauen, Lesben, Intersex, Non-binary, Trans and Agender. There's also a version including the Q, but it feels more like an afterthought from what I've seen.

To be clear, Idk how old that term is. I'm just looking at "current trends" of the community, and I see a few of the more intense people in the queer/LGBTQIA+ community using it.

The term specifically does not include any cis men, not gay, bi or asexuals. Why? It's because of "patriarchal systems" from what I gather, but it just come across as excluding any man. Depending on context it even excludes trans men, maybe even trans women, despite being vulnerable individuals.

To explain the trans aspect: A passing transman might be excluded because, well they pass as the idea of cis masculinity. Trans women, other side, a non-passing or closeted trans woman might feel excluded because their identity isn't "obvious" enough.

For some reason it seems to include cishet women though, at least how I understand it? Idk, if some German speaker knows better please explain.

Lesbian is also included as a "special treat" to show that being a lesbian is... extra special? Honestly, while writing this I checked, and it felt more like a "Lesbians are so special, and it's more than just a sexuality, so here you get this extra consideration." Page I found made a kinda very poetic slog about it "Lesbians are beyond a sexuality, all the other sexualities could never understand the spirituality of being a lesbian. The true aspect Weiblichkeit (feminity) without being restricted by the label of "Frau" (Woman) or "Frau sein" (womanhood). A lesbian is not a woman, she's more." -Calm down Beatrice, you like muff. I mean, same bro. But it doesn't make you better than the common bi, pan, or WLW, or whatever other label we got.-

I don't like this term, because it feels like it's trying to be exclusionary without saying it openly. It's really vague, and nobody I've seen use it seems to have one definition of who it covers and whom it doesn't. Hell, some people even say that transmen are explicitly excluded, despite the T, or that AMAB masc presenting NBs and Agenders are excluded because they "still benefit from the patriarchy." same for non-passing trans women. Basic conclusion, it's all a bit of a big ass mess.

--

[velvetvexations]

(had a point and then it fractal-ed into several points, sorry)

honestly, as a trans person, I hate the acronym TERF bc like. all radical feminism is trans-exclusionary bc it’s basic framework is bio/gender-essentialist and inherently binary and therefore transphobic&exorsexist&intersexist and subsequently exclusionary to every marginalized gender and sex. but bc of tacking on the “TE” part to the radical feminism, we get a lot of people unquestioningly parroting off basic radfem beliefs with a fresh coat of progressive terminology bc they haven’t broken down how the base theory is functionally ineffective and ideologically fixated on self-victimization and inaccurate hierarchies of oppression. (and this is all without even looking at the racism, colorism, ableism, classism, etc. within radfem theory.) and it also leads to major misunderstandings of intersectionality and how oppression and discrimination actually function (and also the conflation of those two concepts). speaking from personal, irl experience with a person who viewed minority status as “stackable”, it feels like a lot of these people who are so fixated on the tma/tme dichotomy and against talking about anti-transmasculinity/transandrophobia, think that if trans men/mascs and nonbinary people (of all asab) have a way to talk about the specific things that they face, then that’s a way for them to “unfairly” “earn more oppression points” which challenges their radfem-based view that one specific minority (sometimes their own, sometimes not) is “the most oppressed” (and therefore not culpable for any bigotry they express/perform since it’s all “punching up”)

(hope this made some sense, sorry if it didn’t <3)

yes, it's all just radical feminism, and it's even more self-destructive because ultimately radical feminist logic will always lead to the conclusion that trans women aren't women and are a danger to AFAB people

[valeriannnnnn]

oh boy, incoming bisexual discourse

so this is admittedly quite rambly, but ive been thinking a lot about the stigmatisation of bisexuality within sapphic spaces a lot lately. like, there’s this pervasive expectation that bisexuals will downplay their attraction to men (e.g., the whole “i’m attracted to like every woman and 2 men” and similar), which feels so incredibly hurtful to me.

i think my issue with it stems from the fact that it’s rooted in basically the need to ‘apologise’ for experiencing attraction to men - and masculinity writ large - that bothers me so much as a bisexual. like, i shouldn’t have to apologise or downplay that, yes, i find men attractive - and no, not just uwu submissive soft boys. like, there’s this pervasive issue within queer spaces that results in the demonisation of masculinity and it results in creating this expectation that bisexuals, especially in sapphic spaces, will suppress their attraction to men in a sort of ‘apology’ for it.

and like this is fundamentally biphobic. like, it’s rooted in this expectation that we as bisexuals must downplay and dismiss and apologise for committing the sin of gasp being attracted to men - which is deeply rooted in purity culture. this puritanism creates this notion that being attracted to or, even worse, having past experiences with men taints the individual, which is incredibly harmful. this type of attitude is what hurts bisexuals (and other multi-sexuals), hurts late-bloomer lesbians, hurts mascs, and hurts butches. it fundamentally creates this exclusionary atmosphere that is rooted in this pervasive, inescapable disdain for masculinity.

anyways i'm sure i have more thoughts on this, but thats kinda what's been in my brain lately