#fandom has a big habit of saying fanon is canon

[monty-glasses-roxy]

Oh wait I have shit to do on the 25th oh no

[zenkindoflove]

You guys do not want to go down the road of starting to make blanket declarations that specific ships are "problematic" and "triggering". And let me explain why.

ACOTAR fandom, in my experience, is notoriously very far removed from general fandom. It's big and dispersed across many platforms that weren't created around fandoms, and so a lot of people enter it having little to no experience in other fandoms.

This discourse about what is or isn't a problematic ship and what kind of person ships a couple like that is not new. Fandoms of yesterday yore have had long fights about this and a general consensus has emerged which is anytime you start playing the morality policing game around people having fun with fictional characters, everyone loses.

Let's take this situation with Elain Archeron Week which is explicitly banning submissions for Elain with characters who are canonically known to be abusive to a romantic partner. Generally, the spirit of character weeks are to be ship neutral and importantly a concept that has emerged from prior fandom morality policing debate is the term Ship and Let Ship. Which means just because something isn't YOUR ship doesn't mean you need to come up for reasons why it isn't CORRECT to ship.

So, you think it's morally incorrect and triggering for people to see Elain paired with an abuser or a "bad guy"? That is okay for your own personal beliefs but if you start making rules around it for something that is supposed to be inclusive where do you draw the line or what that means? How about pairing Elain with the guy who runs Night Court Abu Ghraib? A role that means he actually tortures people physically and mentally to the brink that they are forced to "confess" to crimes. Is that some how morally superior to another character who emotionally abused their partner and confined them to a house?

See. That didn't feel good. Now did it? Do you actually want to get into a discussion about which wrong is morally worse than the other? Especially when it concerns a character week that is supposed to be about positivity and people having fun because they love Elain and they love the different interactions she could potentially have with characters in fanon?

And that is the entire point. When it comes to fiction, we all will be seduced by characters who have done bad things. Things that will trigger people. But, and I mean this whole heartedly, no one else is responsible for your triggers but you. You are the only one who knows what you can and cannot handle. Your Mileage May Vary. Tumblr's tag filtering system is in part for this very reason because of how fandoms use tumblr.

When you have a fandom wide event space, generally it's a bad idea to start throwing up these judgmental rules around people's character interests and shipping habits. Of course, any event runner is entitled to do what they please. But you also have to expect those who are excluded or know people who will be excluded are going to have something to say about it.

I really think the entire ACOTAR fandom could benefit from getting curious for once and actually digging into the histories of fandom, fandom lore and vocabulary, and start learning from from fandom elders. If so, we'd all be able to navigate these situations with a shared language that recognizes that the primary goal of fandom is to have fun first. And everyone's fun is going to look different and each individual is responsible for deciding what their squicks and triggers are. And the whole point of a squick is to let someone know this thing bothers me personally but I understand if it doesn't bother you. That sort of back and forth empathy across each side is how fandoms don't burn down in flames and people don't feel shame about what they like in fiction.

Now any fandom event can make whatever rules they want. But what I already see is a bunch of people (e/riels) are now actually making posts about why others who ship Elain with Tamlin are morally inferior, disgusting, perverse, and bad people. But hear me out, someone can easily think and say the same thing about you and your ship and if that is the kind of environment you'd like to fuck around in, well, aren't we all the worse off for it.

[batobbsession]

i promise i do like Tim guys :(

This is probably my most unpopular opinion as a Tim stan who spends a lot of time in the parts of the fandom that constantly talk about Tim, but this fandom has a habit of making Tim "better" than he actually is and it hurts his character in the end. Anways, i'm going to make a list.

There are so many characters that we never get to see because of him. We only get to see Jack and Janet Drake as abusive because the fandom decided that they were bad parents. We only get to see Ra's al Ghul when he's obsessed with Tim. Damian rarely gets proper fanfics about his early days as Robin or Dick's time as Batman because all those fanfics are about Tim.

The way a lot of this fandom treats him gives of special snowflake vibes and I admit I do read those fics but I feel like a lot of people write him that way because that's the only characterization of Tim they know. It's honestly unrealistic that he managed to stalk highly trained bats as a young child and take photos. I joke about it too, but he canonically has the strongest morals out of all the batboys and canon makes a big deal about the fact that he didn't kill anyone while blowing up buildings. I like these tropes, I read them and all that but they kind of take me out when they're in serious fanfics.

Probably the most unpopular one but I think fanon is doing Tim a disservice by not holding him accountable for anything and villainizing other characters for him. Like people refusing to acknowledge that Tim was very rude to Damian when they first met. The whole mess with him become Red Robin was a good example of that. Canon was a mess too but basically went like this: Tim insists Bruce is alive for no real reason, Damian becomes Robin for a multitude of reasons I won't talk about now, Dick suggests Tim gets a therapist, Tim gets mad and leaves despite efforts otherwise, Dick later finds actual evidence and the all make up. If Tim had stayed in Gotham nothing would have changed because honestly it probably would have been easier for him to find most of the evidence. This is probably the one trope I won't read because it seems insane to act like Dick was crazy for not believing him and he was ostracized from the family despite the fact that he pretty much choose this way. If Tim wanted to stay with the family so much maybe he should have done that while Dick was asking him too and offering him help?

Anyways you guys can ignore this if you want to and if you have a counter point your welcoming to say it

[the-ultimate-supreme-gremlin]

your post about fanon vs canon pregame v3 characters has me curious, what are your thoughts on pregame shuichi and how he's perceived by the fandom? u mentioned u wanted to talk about him but didn't and now i rlly wanna know what u think hehe

Spoilers for V3 (again (just in case for anyone else lol))

I personally dislike how aggressive they make his love of Danganronpa in fanon. And from one pov I can kinda see it with him being like “I’ll plot the most gruesome murders” or something like that in the audition tape. But honestly he just kinda seems like… a guy? He’s a guy who really likes this show (that he’s somewhat grown up in his teens with probably if he’s been watching for years) and would do anything to be in it.

As I said in the other post, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s exaggerating so that they pick him (although his video seems more genuine in how big a fan he is so I feel like that’s just him in geek mode instead of exaggeration). He’s also just not as creepily obsessed as people portray. He’s not frothing at the mouth at the mention of it or even at the fact he’s auditioning. He’s not acting (for lack of a better word) lewd about it (I’ve seen people characterize that along with the obsession).

He’s just… a teenager who really likes this show. He’s watched it for years and has a chance to be on it! Sure, people die, but if it’s still on air it can’t be that bad!

Also in the prologue he acts very similar to the Shuichi we know (nervous, anxious, but still level headed enough to help lead Kaede away from an exisal). We even see that nervousness in the audition where he’s like “I wanna be a detective but it’s ok if I’m not I just really wanna be on this show” (paraphrase).

That’s not to say his fanon pregame self can’t be written well! I’ve read a fic where they tackled the idea of Shuichi after the game having to grapple with who he was, who he is now, and what he’s becoming going back into what he assumed were old danganronpa obsessed habits (it’s a rlly good fic with an unreliable narrator to boot!), I just think it’s overdone considering what we actually have to work with in game.

TL;DR While he definitely rlly liked danganronpa and was probably hyperfixating HARD (lol), it’s nowhere near as bad as fanon makes it out to be (imo).

(I felt like putting this here because it’s funny to me (and also shows that he isn’t a weird guy who wants to kill whoever he sees) LOL)

[blighted-lights]

choose violence; 1, 3, 6, 9, 13

(for this ask here!!! im still taking asks for this, so feel free to send more in!)

1: Character Everyone Gets Wrong

going to name several here, just because i can lol. for idw, its tailgate, drift, arcee, getaway, and tarn. for tfp, it's airachnid and knock out. jazz gets hit with this HARD no matter what continuity he's in and it's so frustrating seeing most fanon interpretations of him, because a lot of it is just rooted in racism. that isn't saying at all that people are intentionally being bigoted ofc, but a lot of the headcanons that people assign jazz and the frequent mischaracterization of him is... well. it's weird. it's weird.

3: Screenshot or Description of The Worst take You've Seen on Tumblr

so im not going to pull out direct screenshots on this, but there is a LOT of back and forth about sexuality headcanons in the tf community, and holy fuck does it get annoying sometimes. im full believer in the idea that anyone can headcanon any character as whatever they want, don't get me wrong, but there is such a lack of consideration for others and boundary crossing when it comes to people going "you're wrong, actually, and here's several paragraphs describing why". this character cant be bi for yadda yadda, they cant be trans bc yadda yadda, they cant be ace bc yadda yadda, or they can ONLY be ace bc of whatever reason. it's happened to me, to several of my mutuals, it's happened to other people i see just randomly in the transformers tag. there's been several vague posts made about people disagreeing with other people's takes and its just,,, it's draining, ngl. maybe not the worst takes i've seen overall but definitely one of the most frequent that annoy me

6: Which Ship Fans Are The Most Annoying?

obligatory "not all fans of these ship are annoying, this is me generalizing from what i've seen" warning here, but i think mega/op and mega/star take the cake. and dra/tchet. this is largely because there's such a big separation between the canon and fanon versions of these characters that seeing a lot of the fanart and fic made for them is just,,, agh. i can't really recognize these characters as who they're supposed to be because they've been so removed from how they're presented in canon media. and im NOT saying you have to strictly adhere to canon. because fuck canon, lol. but it comes to a point where these aren't even the same people anymore. and i wouldn't even care about the canon/fanon thing if some of these fans weren't so idk. mean? aggressive? when it comes to their shipping and people not agreeing with what they ship/how they present that ship? it's absolutely calmed down in recent years, though.

also there's a fair bit of dra/tchet fic and art that is just. absolutely riddled with casual classism, orientalism, and anti-sex work rhetoric, and its uncomfortable. so i tend not to engage much with the fandom on it.

9: Worst Part of Canon

this is such a vague question because i could say so much here, but i'm just going to go with the very biased answer of the frequent condescending way a lot of the beastformers are treated throughout idw. like. these are people. canon wants you to believe that these characters are just as sentient and alive as everyone else but just, jeez. look at what ravage does throughout all of mtmte. being pet, drinking out of bowls, sleeping under megatron's bed, the visual gag of megatron gifting him a bone in one of the cover pages for the holiday special in mtmte, nautica handing ravage a little energon treat, everyone calling him kitty. it's just. agh.

13. Worst Blorbofication

idw tailgate and ravage. absolutely tailgate and ravage, though drift fits here too. tailgate is an arrogant asshole who has a violent streak a mile long. ravage is a bitter, snarky jerk who was, at some point, considering on killing megatron. they're both complex adults and fanon does somewhat have a habit of waving these things away.

[langernameohnebedeutung]

(Referring to this post: https://langernameohnebedeutung.tumblr.com/post/725361975543185408/you-heard-of-hating-female-characters-for-traits)

Do you think it's always a case of people being sexist, or do you think there are cases where the problem is the execution?

(sorry, I had my tabs mixed up).

I mean, for one, "always" is a word that I like to avoid because it's a word that is too big of a commitment to me.

I think execution as well as interpretation both play a role most of the time. And most of the time, they overlap and together they can develop their own very specific dynamics.

The thing is, when I entered fandom at now...almost 15 years ago, things were far worse. Far, far worse. Female characters were routinely portrayed as soulless evil and often violent harpies for no reason (the way they're e.g. often still treated in other, more dudebro-y spaces where female characters can basically be sorted into the categories "hot", "helpful" and "hated" (cough, Borderlands reddit and youtube, cough) - or their entire personality was erased to make her the perfect love-interest.

On the other hand, I feel like in the fandom spaces that have kind of reflected on these issues since then - both the misogyny in the original execution as well as the misogyny in fandom spaces - there is a certain anxiety that makes people ping-pong between these two problems and ultimately, shy away from the issue and the characters entirely.

One example is: How do we deal with female characters who are written to be problematic in extremely misogynistic ways (e.g. the nagging wife). Do we pile on by writing long texts about how she is annoying and nagging and doesn't support her poor husband, therefore meriting the poor writing while at the same time being true to her character and taking her at face value? Probably chiming in with the actual misogynists who will openly hate her AS a woman? Or do we ignore her entire personality and re-design her character into some fandom staple trope that feels more salvageable (but is often also ultimately a cliché like the long-suffering but good-natured doormat wife and isn't the act of making a woman more sweet and manageable sexist in its own right?)? Do we simply pretend her relationship with her husband is just a little bit quirky and fun that way? Or should we let her fade into the background? Do we ascribe a higher motive to her actions? Do we write "hey, yeah, Jane and I got divorced a few months ago" into our fic about the male lead to clear the road to whoever we ship him with? Or do we let him cheat because his wife is so horrible?

How do we deal with the female characters from old-timey works who are given basically no agency? Do we call her out for being useless and annoying and not contributing anything? Or do we construct some deeper agency to her actions? Do we turn her into another "reasonable, good-natured mom-friend"?

Another common complaint against female characters I see is that they're "annoying". On the one hand, I think this comes from the habit of writers of canon, who have decided that the peak of female character agency is to turn them into a token hindrance and rival for the male character who ultimately is wrong but still gets a lot of screen-time arguing and disagreeing and working against a male-character that the audience might like. Which often means they dislike her. The obvious solution is to ship them because they clearly have some hate-love kinda thing going on (I'm saying this in good humour, I love those ships). But sometimes that goes to another extreme where that same character who really, really, really hates a male character for very understandable reasons, has her personality erased and her values and priorities and boundaries ignored to ship her with him - and then fans will suddenly call her abusive and mean if her behaviour in canon doesn't reflect that fanon rationalisation. (though to be fair, I think this is also something that happens with m/m ships) Which is where we end up in the original scenario again, only worse.

I also think the low regard for women's experiences and feelings and the prevalence of misogynistic writing play a role. In execution, the female character's pain and experiences aren't given the same stage (especially if they would inconvenience the male characters around her). In fanon, because I think there is a certain discomfort with putting female characters through certain experiences because it is a misogynistic trope or because it has very specific connotations - and meanwhile, the idea that writing a male character dealing with these same experiences on the one hand (best interpretation) removes the lens of misogyny that causes this discomfort and let's us examine the issue from a less mapped out perspective and b) (less favourable interpretation) on the other hand, it might feel like this experience receives an upvaluation when a man is shown to be dealing with it.

For example, ages ago I saw this clip of an interview with...I think a director? and he talked about how he has to frame scenes, where the male lead cries very differently from the way he has to frame a scene where a female character cries because the audience reacts very differently because female characters are portrayed as crying so much more often, while a crying scene for the male lead is a show-stopper. It has a lot of gravity. This is something we also probably reflect at least subconsciously when we let a character cry. And I think this applies to a lot of things - both in our writing and in our interpretation of works that, e.g. are very male gaze-y. Showing male characters feeling love-lorn and sensitive and sexualised or domestic - that's an interesting exploration of masculinity, it is actively engaging with characters who probably weren't written like that in canon.

Showing your favourite action hero padding around his apartment making breakfast for his boyfriend in bed while thinking about how pretty he is (also, just to drive the point home, he might be pregnant now) is...just that tick more experimental than showing a female character in that same role. Especially if she, too, is a super-strong action heroine who can do anything. (and you are the one impregnating her and making her make breakfast? That doesn't feel nice!)

So yeah,...uh. I think both are an issue.

[randomnameless]

Do you feel like the fandom has a sort of bigotry of low expectations attitude towards Almyra? Like Rhea is literally satan for not teaching Cyril to read (even though she didn't know he couldn't) but Almyra, where he lived during the time in his life where most kids are learning to read, doesn't get any flack for not educating it's children. And that's on top of treating the whole "ignoring the orphans you create in your raids for funzies until you can use them in your raids for funzies" as not a big deal at best and something Cyril needs to get over so he can embrace his Almyran heritage at worst.

Hm...

I didn't interact with khalidstan side of the fandom, a friend gave me a few links and I clicked, blinked, and they immediately returned lol.

Almyra in fandom in general is... a short summary of what Fodlan's issue is, and the need to use copious amounts of headcanons or to project real life events on the two lines given because 10k years of lore means we still don't know the name of Claude's dad or why the fuck he isn't stopping the raids.

And in a way, I can't really say it's undeserved, to project so much, because we all like to see something new, and something "not often seen" in jrpgs, Almyra's aesthetic was so heavily inspired by real world locations, so of course people wanted to know more about it than about "random medieval european land #8854" and...

Well. The game doesn't say a lot about Almyra, it is mentionned about, someone you are supposed to see as a protagonist with knowledge about this land says some good stuff about it and... that's it!

(at least it wasn't the utter disappointment Hyzante was in TS, because that's another can of worms, but given the "aethetic" picked for the ultra religious people who justify everything by their religion that is actually false and controlled by an old fart using a puppet, and who also enslaves people, and has no redeeming quality bar its last survivor being a Mother (tm) who apparently knows some medicine - let's say this portrayal would have fit well with the early 2000s depictions of a certain religion and its followers in the real world).

So for this new and "exotic" (i fucking hate that word) country, of course people wanted to know more... and when the "more" showed that IS didn't move from the Kaga era with Persia = Verdane, well.

Some people, who really wanted to be invested in Almyra (maybe projecting a lot about it) were disappointed, and had to basically create fanon!Almyra from the few breadcrumbs we got - ending with the "Almyra is wonderful and #didnothingwrong, Fodlan BaD and Syrup must embrace his Almyran identity as Khalid's bby bro!" - canon events can be ignored!

And, as headcanon/fanon, okaay, this can work, I mean, it's not because people make sandwiches with mayo, eggs and cucumbers that I have to eat it, you know? Some people eat those kinds of sandwiches, I don't, don't like, don't read, etc etc.

But then, removing the fandom's tendency to headcanon and, well, be a fandom, in FE Fodlan itself we have... Claude.

And the way the games treat Claude, imo, ultimately fuels those headcanons.

Rather, not only Claude, but more specifically, his views about Fodlan, Almyra and the supposed reasons why they can't get along.

As I posted way too many times in the last 4 years, Claude will - for a reason I suspect is tied to Hresvelg Grey and the red herring called Rhea - never interact with the Almyrans attacking for shit'n'giggles in Hilda'n'Cyril's paralogue. He will not talk about House Goneril's habit to, uh, "take orphans left on the battlefield" with them.

But it's an issue with the Fodlan games in general, you can have an elephant in the room, or a giant dragon, if it goes against the narrative a certain character pushes, that elephant will be ignored, like, the lord won't even have 1 line about it.

The game took time to code Claude having line about random pirates "dirtying" Almyra's good name by pretending to be Almyran pirates to, just, steal stuff - but it didn't took time to code Claude maybe tell to the random peon leading the raid of the week to stop the fuck out - and I ultimately don't think it was a foresight.

Claude will tell you the reason why Almyra isn't well seen nor accepted in Fodlan is because of the Church or the faith Rhea preaches (since in VW Billy will still be head of the church), because the faith Rhea preaches apparently encourages isolationism, xenophobia, etc etc...

And nowhere in the game(s) will someone tell him that, uh, no, the faith Rhea preached welcomes people of all faiths and origins (Cyril sort of does, but this support is optional when Claude will always say the same thing at the beginning, middle and end of his route(s)), or how people do not welcome Almyrans with open arms because of their habit to raid their lands every sunday (re : lack of reaction in the Hilda'n'Cyril support) - Hell, in Nopes, it's Lorenz, not Claude, who tells Almyrans that they shouldn't pillage the cities they are invading (re : the elephant in the room, Lorenz adresses it though, even if it's played for funsies).

So if Claude says Almyra is the second coming of paradise on earth, and the game never bothers to correct him or have him learn, react and reconsider his earlier opinions, why should the fandom bother? Claude is a protagonist and can be the Lord, so of course whatever he says - even in passing, is true!

Coupled with the projection/fanon/headcanon issue of earlier and you have fanon!Almyra - where Syrup needs to ditch the woman who gave him meals and a roof and basic care to return to his "almyran" origins even if in Almyra he was treated like fodder and had "no reason to live".

Why?

Because said woman is a certain fandom's projection on the catholic church + the game(s) need a red herring + Hresvelg Grey + Claude said so and the game(s) never confronts him so it sort of works.

I think, back when I still had faith in redshit, I tried to argue to someone who said "obviously Almyra has more advanced medicine bcs trust me bro" with something like "in a world where singing 2 "Ave Sothis" can heal a fractured arm, what the fuck is advanced medicine?" Ditto for the more advanced ships because they have canons, we're in the Fire Emblem series, who gives a fuck about a canon if you have a mage with long range magic on the other side ? Ask FE4, people can summon meteors - do you really think a "canon" is advanced technology in an universe with magic? (unless we make a difference between magic and technology but it's all sort of pointless, some place isn't more backwards than the other if it uses different methods to reach the same results?).

----

Then, let's not kid ourselves, Almyra, just like everything in Fodlan, has been used by the fandom to demonise Rhea, because Rhea BaD since she's the fandom projected version of Pope Francis and Supreme Leader + Claude think she's the reason why Fodlan sucks.

So with the "Rhea is satan because she never taught Cyril, who kept that information hidden, how to read, but the Gonerils are somehow A-ok despite not teaching him too - granted they also forgot to give him food so at least they're consistent in how they completely don't give a fuck about him" -

I also read the "Rhea is evil because she only saved 1 Almyran Child from House Goneril, but again, House Goneril isn't evil for, uh, keeping more than 1 Almyran child needing to be saved" -

And Nopes gave us the best "Rhea is evil incarnated because she doesn't tell Cyril to run away when people want to slaughter her, unlike what she did for her blood relatives, so it's actually Rhea's fault that Claude had to use Cyril as an archery practice dummy!".

If Rhea must be bad, then everything she stands against must be Good! And that includes the people she bought a fort to defend against!

Tl;Dr : some part of the fandom idealisation of Almyra comes frmo 1/projection

2/Khalid said so and the game(s) never force him to reconsider

3/Rhea BaD (this one is a bit of a cheat, since it can be used to explain 95% of the various discourses that happened in this fandom since its creation!)

[mickmundy]

Your honest opinion on Medic being a whimsical silly goose

In My Own Personal Opinion i think it's the only way he should be portrayed tbh... i've talked about that here a bit more in depth but part of what makes medic such a fun character is that he IS fun... if he was just some cold sadist he'd just be another Cold Sadist Doctor which gaming has dozens and dozens of. he's also very Capable! he CAN be sadistic but it's not his entire personality. fandom in general (though specifically two4t's) has a bad habit of taking like. One "Canon" Trait a character has and making it their whole personality and i feel like people play up medic as this like Ohh Big Bad Doctor which Yes he CAN be but thats not ALL he is. and by stripping him (or the other mercs/characters in general) of their Varied Traits you get boring one dimensional Fanon... sad!

i think medic can really shine when he catches the reader a bit offguard with some kind of zany anecdote or way of reasoning... he's admittedly quite a challenge for me to write (i've said before i'm super insecure with how i write him KSDFKSD) but i always have a blast doing so! but anyway i think medic's silliness is integral to his character (just as general immaturity/silliness is to all of the mercs tbh. yes even spy) and like i say there's billions of Cold Sadist Doctor characters out there already! let medic be fun!!! HEHEHE

[godtier]

Hello! I got suggested to come here recently and have a little question for ya--

I was reading the pixiv and jp wikipedia page for Leon and it says he has antibodies that prevent him from turning into a zombie, even if he's bitten...!? Is that true?? Apparently it's only the T-virus or something since they make it clear that he can get infected by the C-virus. I was wondering if this was just a fan theory about why he could be bitten in gameplay and still not turn into a zombie, or if it was kind of true...?

hi there! thanks for the follow!

aight so the antibody thing is a weird one. this is gonna be a long tangent, brace yourself!

to be clear, there are only a handful of characters that canonically have antibodies. Jake Muller and Sherry Birkin (kind of, she's a weird case) are two big examples. I went and found the posts/wikis you were talking about and the first thing I noticed is that they didn't source anything for those specific claims. second thing I noticed is that they directly referenced "game over" wrt RE6 and the C virus.

that tells me exactly what I need to know, which is that those lines are merely a way for the JPN fandom to explain how the playable characters can continue to exist semi-normally after being bitten during gameplay.

this is actually a pretty common way to explain away game mechanics, not just in RE. for example, say you have a game where you build up an arsenal of weaponry in the first installment, but your character has none of it at their disposal in the sequel. sometimes game devs will write in an explanation as to why that is. maybe their weapons got stolen, or maybe they lost them, or whatever. it's a way to better immerse the player, especially if they're playing sequels back to back. but a lot of devs don't or didn't bother because they rely on the cutscenes (or in really old games, the instruction manuals) to tell the story. it's sort of an "old habit" of game dev, I'd say. and that's why it's especially prevalent in older games; older games were way more heavily treated like... well, games you play for getting a high score or whatever, rather story-telling experiences (JRPGs notwithstanding). gameplay actions (such as game overs or status effects like getting poisoned) and story were almost always separate.

nowadays, a good chunk of game devs like to make the player character "unique" in some way in the sense of examining why certain gameplay mechanics operate the way they do and why a character may or may not be affected by them logically. this is especially the case in zombie games. how can they survive getting bitten? well, maybe they're immune (left 4 dead, dead island, etc).

but gameplay itself is not always canon, and in RE in particular, the "canon" way of looking at it is that... well, Leon just never got bitten at all. that's the canon of the game, anything else is set dressing or just part of the gameplay itself. if you get bitten while playing, but still beat the game, the canon doesn't change around that. it just proceeds with the assumption that Leon never got bitten. that's how he survived in the story, regardless of how well you did in the gameplay.

so the idea that Leon and other characters have antibodies isn't exactly true unless outright specified, which it never has been, from what I could find. if they did have antibodies, I feel as though it would have a much, much larger focus of the stories as a whole.

take Jake from RE6, for example. his entire character arc was that he had specific antibodies that made him totally immune to the C virus. this was a huge plot point as his blood was required to create a vaccine and he was the only verified case of total immunity. if Leon and other characters had T virus antibodies, for example, I feel like it would have been explored or at least mentioned consistently in the story, or pointed out by someone during a cutscene.

so tl;dr: Leon having antibodies is a headcanon or fanon likely created out of a desire to explain away how he could survive being bitten during gameplay. but gameplay actions aren't always canon. the canon of RE2 is just... he's insanely lucky and never got bitten!

I hope that answers the question for you! I'm happy to chat about RE or other Capcom games any time 😊

[mistchievous]

If Eddie revealed in the next few episodes that, all his life he's been drinking coffee but he doesn't really like it, and now he discovered tea and found his perfect drink, would you reconsider your stance on the superiority of gay lo-- err tea?

Oh man. Anon, I know you're just in here teasing, but you have accidentally stepped in an issue that makes me want to word vomit all over Tumblr.

As much as I'd like to engage with this at a surface level and stick to talking about tea vs. coffee, you've turned the discussion into something else.

I'm not upset with you, but this is gonna be a rollercoaster of a response. So bear with me.

People in fandom have a really bad habit of forgetting what the point of fanfiction and the like actually are. It's right there in the name. The word fiction.

As much as people like to think otherwise, fanfiction and headcanons and whatnot are not fact. They're ideas created by fans. None of them are canon. The words headcanon, fanon, etc. exist for a reason, and it's okay to explore something in fanfiction that has no real basis in canon.

Because the entire point of fanfiction - of creating things in a fandom - is to explore non-canon ideas. What would happen in this situation? What if we put these characters in a different universe where so-and-so owns a coffee shop? What if, what if, what if...? It's all about having fun with the characters, setting, etc.

One of the problems in this particular fandom is that people can't seem to differentiate between exploring ideas and applying those ideas to canon. And that's an issue.

And I'm going to use the issue you brought up to explain it.

The Gay!Eddie vs. Bi!Eddie discourse is important. Now, the issue isn't with people addressing this in fanfiction. If people want to write about Eddie being closeted this entire time and yadda yadda, more power to them. Let them explore that idea.

But talking about it as though it has a basis in canon and wishing for it to be canon can be problematic because then you dive headfirst into erasure. Eddie very much loved his wife. He not only loved his wife; he enjoyed having sex with her. A lot. He was not only with her for Chris. He was fucking her while hiding her from Chris entirely. That was for himself. What we see on-screen is him very much being into Shannon. Sneaking around just to get into bed with her. Dude is having a grand time. There are no actual signs that he didn't love her and no actual signs that he wasn't attracted to her. Just a lot of twisting and reading into things by fans.

So, using your own analogy, him discovering he likes tea does not mean he never liked coffee. It doesn't mean he still doesn't like coffee. It just means he's discovered something else that he enjoys.

And people will say "Oh, but Michael." But we have no idea what his and Athena's sex life was like. It's not like we saw him fucking Athena into incoherency and enjoying the hell out of it just for him to turn around and be like "Oh. I'm gay." It was implied that this was something he wrestled with for quite a while before being honest with her. We don't even know if he ever sought her out for sex. We don't know what he felt when having sex with her or how into it he was. Not to mention there are mental and physical aspects to sex. Mental and physical stimuli. And they're different.

Bi erasure is a big problem irl. The idea that "Oh, well you like so-and-so now or this gender or whatever means that you didn't really like/love that other person before". The writers going ahead with Gay!Eddie in canon would mean they would literally have to erase and invalidate his previous relationships. Particularly his relationship with Shannon. Because canonically, as I've already mentioned, the dude was really into his wife, and we literally saw it on-screen.

They'd have to go back and be like "Nah. That wasn't legit."

Nothing was erased on-screen for Michael. Like I said, we saw nothing of his relationship with Athena beyond the fact that they care for each other, and that didn't change.

But with Eddie, it would literally be a push to validate bi-erasure, and that's not okay. There is literally no reason for them to invalidate his previous relationships just to confirm that he's into men. None whatsoever. If they confirm he's into men, it should be "also" not "instead of". And pushing for "instead of" and trying to twist previous interactions he's had with Shannon to disprove the legitimacy of his past relationships with women in canon is erasure and is a problem.

If you want to explore it in fandom, feel free. But when you start twisting canon or saying certain things should have been done in canon, you're crossing a line that you might not even realize is there.

And it's not just with this issue.

90% of the discourse in this fandom would fucking vanish if people understood this more.

Even the anti-Maddie fics aren't an issue just because they exist. Technically, you can write what you want. Because yes, "Dont like; don't read" is a thing. People can just filter you out and move on.

But this fandom doesn't just write what they want and tag problematic content that can then be easily filtered. They then defend it and talk about it as though this is how it should have happened.

"Maddie should have been arrested." "Buck should have blah blah blah when she told him about Daniel."

People in this fandom want their bashing fics to be validated instead of just acknowledging that they're bashing fics. So in author's notes and Tumblr posts and the like, they'll say this should have happened and twist entire interactions to justify whatever problematic content they create.

And that's fucked up. Because no. None of that shit is what should have happened to Maddie. Victim-blaming is extremely dangerous and damaging.

But again, this fandom can't just be like "This is bashing and you won't like it, so stay away." They try to defend it to actual victims. They're spreading dangerous ideas because they want validation that they're right about a character or a situation to avoid having to acknowledge that they're creating content with problematic themes.

And that's not okay.

This fandom needs to learn how to explore something in fiction without:

Acting as though it is or should be canon.

Acting as though projections on a character are equal to analyses of a character. (Ex. Buck did not care about Taylor unlocking his phone even if you would have. Your boundaries are not the same as every other person on the planet's.)

Hiding behind "Don't like; don't read" as a blanket statement to spew hate and dangerous ideas. (Tag your hate and own that what you're writing is some kind of guilty pleasure fic instead of trying to promote and defend the idea as a good and legitimate one that applies to actual people.)

Anyway, I've gone wildly off-topic. This doesn't even touch on things like racism and the like. I could vent all day about fandom.

But Idek how much sense I'm making anymore, so lemme stop here. I'm literally rambling now.

Anyway, anon. I know you were just teasing, but you kinda stepped on an ant pile. Sorry. 😂😭

[bitimdrake]

hello! my contact with with batfam stuff is mostly through fandom and i've recently seen people complaining about the whole 'tim liking coffee' stereotype, but i can't really understand why it annoys people. i know it doesn't have any real basis in canon, but is that all? or is it because of the characterisation that usually comes attached to it? or something else?

hi! Yeah, so, even compared to other fandoms, comics fandom really tends to make the characters ooc (presumably due to the number of fans who've never engaged with the source material nonetheless enjoying the fandom, with a side of all the influence from non-comic adaptations of the character). And in response, there can be a lot of annoyance (or sometimes outright anger) from those who do read comics and are desperately trying to find fan material that is...actually about those canon characters they got attached to. So that whole environment does exacerbate things to begin with.

When it comes to the "coffee addict tim" thing in particular, I think your guesses are pretty accurate. I'd basically boil it down to three things:

(1) As you say, it doesn't have any basis in canon--but it's super prevalent in fanon. And any fanon characteristic that gets popular is always going to become a hot topic, however (un)important. If the coffee thing only cropped up in sporadic fics, I don't think there would be any broad debate about it. But it appears everywhere, so strong opinions form.

(2) Sometimes (not always, but enough to be notable), "coffee addict tim"--or really any 'food obsession' fanon, or fanon in general--makes characterization super flat in fics. Like, think of the number of fics/posts/meta you have come across where Tim is coffee obsessed and sleep deprived and...that's it. Those are the only traits he gets. Tim appears in this scene? Better mention how he's exhausted and looking for coffee!

(3) Relatedly--and imo this is the big one--as you've guessed. the coffee thing has a REALLY strong likelihood to tie into this greater fanon characterization of Tim that just doesn't look anything like the comics character. For example:

Fanon Tim is dependent on his coffee habit. Canon Tim not only barely ever drinks coffee, but--like his entire family--is wildly opposed to having any kind of substance dependence or lack of control over his own body. These are contol freak health nuts, y'all.

Fanon Tim drinks coffee because he's always tired. Canon Tim just falls asleep in ridiculous places at ridiculous times, which is also OBJECTIVELY funnier and I can't believe fanon didn't latch onto that.

Fanon Tim is so constantly sleep deprived that his whole family finds it wild and shocking and is always concerned over him. Canon Tim is pretty much on par with the rest of the bats, and his canon friends and family don't find it that notable considering their own experiences.

In fact, Oracle Babs is the only bat I can think of who's regularly seen drinking coffee. And Dick is the batkid most likely to follow Bruce's bad habits and work himself to the bone without breaks.

Speaking of, Fanon Tim is sleep deprived because he does nothing but work work work all the time and refuses to take care of himself. Canon Tim misses out on sleep because he's trying to juggle vigilantism with a regular life as a high school student--and iirc, after he drops out of school and becomes Red Robin, we don't seem him having any more problems with sleep.

Red Robin Fanon Tim is also busy work work working at Wayne Enterprises. Canon Tim is the CEO in name only and I literally don't think we saw him working in the office even once. The only WE work he does is very part-time for his passion charity project, the Neon Knights.

Despite not taking care of himself and constantly appearing fragile, fanon Tim is nonsensically also the most badass and clever guy ever. Canon Tim (usually) follows so much more logic here--when he's exhausted because, say, he stayed up half the night as Robin and the other half doing homework, he ends up not operating at his best and making dumb mistakes. When he's cool and badass and executing plans perfectly, it's because he's gotten enough sleep and food to be in that top shape.

And then other little non-canon details are typically added in fanon--Tim being super pale, having constant dark circles, acting like a zombie in the morning, keeping a coffee maker in his room, etc.

Additional fun facts because I hate shutting up: Dick is canonically a capable cook, has no single favorite food established, and as far as I know has never stated any preference for sugary food. Steph loves waffles a normal human amount, and her comfort food is mashed potatoes. Tim is a little rich boy, but he learned how to make genuinely good soup from his step mom, so I have faith he can learn how to cook in general if he sets his mind to it. Bruce once burnt soup and also failed to make an edible tuna sandwich, so I have no faith in him at all.

(PS: If you are curious about getting into comics and seeing what Tim is like, but overwhelmed at the number of places to start, Robin vol 2 (1993) is gonna be your main source for Tim characterization. Alternately, Young Justice vol 1 (1999) is focused on the whole team rather than Tim specifically, but is a fun and consistent run the whole way through. And I'm always happy to give more detail!)

[stxleslyds]

You always seem down on the idea of the Batfam. I mean, it is hard to take seriously when writers make Bruce hostile or downright abusive towards his kids, or when Batfam members never interact. But do you think the concept itself is good, and it's just been the victim of bad writing? Or do you think the Batfam is a bad idea that can never work?

Hi there Anon! Thank you for the ask!

Hmm, this is a difficult question. Maybe I can answer this better if I do it in parts because the concept of “Batfamily” is used in different ways currently. A way to separate them can be, DC’s Batfamily, Fandom’s Batfamily and Fandom’s Batfamily lore being introduced in comics’ canon.

DC’s Batfamily:

My rejection of this version of Batfamily comes from all angles, it is not a good concept within comics lore anymore, it’s badly written and used to hide and move on from truly horrendous actions done by Bruce towards the rest of the family, and DC uses the concept of “Batfamily” that fandom has become so attached to, so they can profit off of it without writing anything of real essence with it.

Why did I say that the Batfamily isn’t a good concept anymore? Well, because the Batfamily that I first came across in comics included, Bruce, Dick, Alfred, Barbara, Tim and Cassandra. It was rather small and their books interconnected and had pretty solid relationships with one another. Dick and Tim got along and spent time together, Barbara mentored Cass so she could become Batgirl and so on and so forth. The family was smaller and more connected. But they still had problems and bad habits then. So, I liked them as a group of people that worked together and the name they received was “Batfamily” as a way for DC to profit from it.

Right now, the Batfamily is huge, I don’t know if you have seen those splash pages with all the members of it for Rebirth and Infinite Frontier, but those promotional pages were crazy big, characters like Harley and Clownhunter are now considered part of the “Batfamily” and all that. Then there is the kind of characters like Cass, Steph and Kate who are all connected to Batman but that haven’t been appearing in books for very long, so putting them on that page really feels like DC is trying to prove that their “Batfamily” actually has women on it, but it’s just for show.

And then there is Dick, Jason, Tim and Damian, the most recognizable faces of the Batfamily aside from Bruce and Alfred (but Alfred is dead now so he doesn’t really count), all of them have had issues with Bruce or are indifferent to the existence of one another. Yes, Tom Taylor has included Tim in Dick’s book but here is the thing, it feels like he put him there just to make fans shut up about the lack of content with both of them acting as they used to do. But its false and lazy, Taylor just brought Tim to the book but we don’t get to see Tim and Dick interact in ways that can explain why they drifted off, it kinda seems like all those years where Dick and Tim were pulled apart never happened to DC and that makes me think “cash grab”. I would have loved to see them interact again if it meant that we would have some solid story for them to develop their relationship once more.

At the end of Rebirth, Damian was pissed off at Bruce and they had a fight and Damian left the manor completely. Bruce beat up Jason, then gave him a hug but still told him that he was banned from Gotham and all that abuse and manipulation was swept under the rug when DC came out with Urban Legends: Cheer, all they did with that story is lie and made-up stories about Jason wanting Bruce to go on a killing spree so Gotham can finally be the home to his beloved family (lies, lies, lies).

On top of all that we have the neglect, abuse and manipulation that Bruce had going on with Dick, ever since Bruce manipulated Dick into joining Spyral his actions haven’t faced any consequences (the family still believes that Dick was the one who lied about dying). And as recently as the end of Rebirth, Dick suffered from a head injury that left him amnesiac and Bruce absolutely didn’t care enough to look after him when he was so vulnerable and alone. DC had the audacity of having Bruce say that he was looking after Dick while Dick went from one villain manipulating and hurting him to another, and if we look at Batman’s run, we can see that he spent some of that time in a weird pit or playing catch the pussy with Selina in a tropical island.

So, taking all those things into account, I honestly believe that the Batfamily is a concept that absolutely does not belong in comics. If it were to be taken seriously then DC should come up with (organic, not forced) stories that make these characters connect once again, but they have to be careful, just because they can connect it doesn’t mean that everyone gets along and they have group chats and eat dinner together of Fridays, that would be a blatant lie and just too out there for their kind of dynamic, so, they should take things slow, start re-building what once was an make it better (if they want to make it work and feel like less of a cash grab).

I heard that there is a book with Cass and Steph being mentored as Batgirls by Barbara coming out in December, that to me is a good thing, what was done in Robin #5 was awful, Jason didn’t have or want to be there, Tim, what the hell was Tim doing there? The only ones that have gotten along with Damian and have had a solid relationship with him were Dick and Steph. Dick had a very nice moment with Damian in that issue, but Steph didn’t, they preferred to have Jason wanting to hug Damian instead (what the actual hell was that?).

Fandom’s Batfamily:

Fandom is a place where people can take any concept from anywhere and transform it into whatever they please. This fandom is just like any other in that matter, but I have noticed that sometimes the Batfamily Fandom tends to blur the lines between what’s fanon and canon. Their lore is so deep and established among people that they sometimes (willingly or not) make new readers or other people believe that how things and perceived in fandom is how things actually are in comics, and that is a huge problem.

Things like “Dick sent Jason to Arkham when the Joker was just a cell away”, “Jason has pit madness and when he gets mad his eyes turn glowy green”, “Dick was a horrendous brother to Jason before Jason died”, “Jason would be good friends with Tim and Cass”, “Jason is the only one that sees the world differently from Bruce and the other robins because he is the only one that comes from a life with no luxury” and so on and on and on…

All of those things are sometimes treated as the absolute truth by fandom and no matter how many times people have debunked and explained that those things aren’t part of comics’ canon because they are simply not true, fandom stills treats those things as the basis of their Batfamily lore.

That lore would be actually fascinating if people didn’t lose sight so easily of the fact that at the end of the day none of that lore can be applied to comics’ canon.

When you enter this fandom things can be extremely confusing and the way some of the characters are characterized are completely different to their canon characterizations, I knew that the Dick fandom was writing about was not real, but I had no idea that Tim being a coffee addict that hasn’t slept in five months and is an absolute genius in everything and anything that he does was completely out of character for him, I just thought that was true to his character in comics too. Something like that happened to me when I took a peek at Jason’s side of fandom, by that time I had read Red Hood/Arsenal, UtRH and New 52 RHatO (yeah in that order, Red Hood/Arsenal wasn’t finished yet though), with the already conflicting characterizations of those books, the first look that I had at fandom’s Jason confused me even more. After considering all those I decided that the Jason that I wanted to see and actually looked appealing to me was UtRH Jason.

Not all people in fandom read comics and that is ABSOLUTELY VALID, I have zero problems with people not liking the comic characterizations of the “Batfamily” characters, but that in itself also creates a rift between fans themselves.

Fandom’s Batfamily lore being introduced in comics’ canon:

This is obviously the intersection of the other two points and this is the biggest problem that I have with the Batfamily concept. The fandom lore has been leaking into comic’s canon for a while now but right now we are kinda drowning in it. Decisions that have been made recently in DC like, Jason giving up his guns, the group chats in Nightwing issues, the family dinners that were hinted at in Cheer #6, and Bruce having had at the ready a Red Hood suit for Jason with a Batman logo in its chest, have been proof enough that DC is planning on skipping any kind of solid writing for these characters to actually get along. We are never going to see these people sit down and talk about their differences and respect each other’s work ethics.

We are never going to get stories of actual essence that prove that these characters understand and care for each other, we are just going to be told that “all is good” and now everyone loves one another and they will build from there.

That is a problem for me.

-

And it also takes away duality from Gotham’s vigilantes, I know I say this too much but it’s the truth, putting all these characters under the ruling of Batman makes them all bland. Jason shouldn’t be part of any sort of group that involves Bruce! My god, I don’t want to see them interact anymore! Bruce has been absolute trash to Jason ever since he came back from the dead and I am tired of DC trying to make them be on good terms!

Jason and Bruce not getting along can co-exist with the fact that Jason isn’t a villain to Batman’s legendary hero. Jason is his own character, with his own morals and he doesn’t need a bat symbol on his chest or book logo to be relevant. Same with Dick, Tim and Barbara, let them be characters that can stand on their own because they have already done that!

Barbara as Oracle worked WITH Batman if she wanted, she had her own logo and had passed on the mantle of Batgirl because he had grown out of it.

Dick is Nightwing and has become an even better hero than Batman could even aspire to become, he has contacts with everyone in the DC universe, has led countless teams, he doesn’t NEED a batman logo on his book or to be constantly dragged back to him just to make the Bat more compelling.

Jason, my sweet Jason, he had his own logo! It was gorgeous and then Lobdell had the audacity to stamp a Batman logo in the middle of the book name and in Jason’s chest! Have we gone absolutely mad? Why did they do that? Lobdell’s constant back and forth with Jason and his feelings for Bruce, he respects him and he doesn’t, he kills and he doesn’t… each issue felt like a new take on the character! It was crazy!

And that has happened with everyone in the “family”. I will end this by saying that Bruce/Batman being at the centre of this “Batfamily” dynamic is the most laughable thing in the DC Universe. Batman isn’t family to any of the people that they constantly surround him with, he is a piece of shit.

Anyway Anon, I hope this answer doesn’t ruin your day and that you understand that even though I really don’t like the “Batfamily” concept, you and everyone else are allowed and encouraged to think differently!

Hope you have a marvellous day Anon!

[sword-dad-fukuzawa]

a hate letter to canon diluc (no, not really)

a series of thoughts I had while talking to Peaches @scalpel-mom-mori. pardon me if it's a mess. currently, it's 12:30 am. @paintalyx hERE YA GO >:D

Anyway. This is why I think Diluc has the messiest characterization!

So, Genshin's one of those fandoms with mile wide gaps between the canon characterization of a given character and the fanon for them. But there are usually a few traits that remain consistent--typically the most recognizable ones. Think Zhongli being bad with money or Childe's bloodthirsty streak, Jean's workaholism or Xiao's devotion.

What makes it easier is that most characters are designed in a consistent way with their personalities. For example, Kaeya has an eyepatch. It's an easy metaphor for his habit of concealing the truth with half-truths and fabrications and a good example of character design expressing some trait of the character themselves. Or Ningguang, whose personality is refined and commanding. Her style of dress is very elegant and formal, reflecting her key character traits.

Another great example would be Klee. She has adorable pigtails and her design is very soft and round, which fits her very cutesy, young vibe. And her colors are red, which, you know, references both her explosive and extroverted personality as well as the whole Pyro element thing.

Which brings me to Diluc.

The problems with his in-game model aside, his design does not match his personality or characterization. Which is actually indicative of a larger problem! Namely, his characterization is a mess and all over the place!

At first glance, he looks...very soft. His hair frames his face in a soft (almost feminine?) sort of way, his expression isn't overly stern, and even his coat is trimmed with fur. But then you look at the...leg...bracelet...thing...and that's definitely a sharper sort of metal, along with his belt and buckles.

His design is also interesting in that he wars mostly black with just the white shirt, but then the first thing you see about him is his bright as fuck red hair. There's just so many weird contradicting elements and vibes in this outfit that I can't get a read on him at all.

Looking at his characterization, it's no wonder his design feels so dissonant. The difficulty with a video game is that Diluc is largely characterized by his interactions with other characters rather than being able to see much of his inner thoughts past his own voicelines.

But here's the thing! Nobody's got a consistent read on him either!

Jean obviously respects him, even to the point of holding onto the deferential -senpai suffix in the JP dub, and trusts his judgement on the Stormterror situation enough to recruit him.

Note, by the way, that Diluc repays this trust by subverting the Knights' authority in the Darknight Hero quest. By, you know, bullshitting up a clime crisis in order to go all vigilante on the Abyss Order.

Kaeya is a passive aggressive chucklefuck on the best of days but if you put him in Diluc's vicinity, he becomes more vicious than a sober soccer mom. See: airing all their dirty laundry during Venti's story quest and the Midsummer Islands quests. I think some of his better lines are "Does anyone else find it funny when Master Diluc says 'Dodoco King'?" "Would you throw me out like you did Father's legacy?" and "He's like a big kid."

damn Kaeya I didn't know you had a masters degree in sick burns okay

SO HERE'S MY THOUGHT. The fandom seems to have decided that Diluc's a grumpy tsundere. As Kaeya put it, an "antihero with attitude problems." And we're not exactly wrong? But also we are? Because while Diluc will pull tsundere moves like holding a birthday party for Jean while talking shit about her organization, he also reacts to Kaeya's ribbing with a taciturn sort of politeness and dismisses him out of hand.

And yet he's also really nice to Traveler for seemingly no reason. He also isn't...usually that grumpy or curmudgeonly. He's actually quite polite to everyone and, instead of wrecking Kaeya's shit for being obnoxious, he tends to remove himself from the situation. All of his lines during the Islands quests were about letting him take care of things and protect people.

And he pretends he's responsible, fighting the Abyss Order because he loves Mondstadt, but he also undermines the knights whenever he can. But he also seems like he's not overly brutal, either.

Except he tortures an Abyss Mage into giving up info.

My point about how all-over the place his characterization is ties into his design. I'd expect a character who looked like he does to be fierce, maybe a little loud, somewhat passionate. Diluc is, instead, a polite man of few words.

Unless he's giving a speech on his plan of attack. Unless he's talking shit about the knights. Unless he's glaring impotently at Kaeya. Unless he's being begrudgingly fond of Traveler and co. Unless--

You get the picture. His JP dub voice doesn't help, either. Kensho Ono portrays him as speaking calmly with, like, a hint of depression. It's so dissonant with the way he looks as a character and the fact that he waves around a massive fuck-off sword like my grandpa with a rolled-up newspaper. Add that to how his personality changes wildly with whoever he's interacting with and I am just exasperated.

My solution is to just write him however the fuck I need him to be for whatever my concept is, because I give up on figuring out what the hell is going on with him.

[octopunkmedia]

Hi! My friend and I recently played D:BH and when we dipped a toe into the fandom, we found a LOT of Reed900. That confused us, because we hadn't even seen RK900 after our first playthrough and Reed seemed the opposite of nice. I finally watched your film and I really admire all the work you put into it, but I still don't understand. I love hearing people talk about the things they love, though, so could you explain what it is about RK900 that motivated you to make a whole-ass movie?

I've been in this fandom since literally day one, so I witnessed the origins of Reed900 and its growth personally (at least English speaking fandom. Russian fandom could be quite different). When DBH first came out, HankCon was definitely the dominant ship and primary reason we were all here, with some love going to Connor/Markus and Simon/Markus as well. A lot of people were non shipper fans. And you also had a handful of Connor/Gavin folks but no one gave Reed much development for the first 7 or 8 weeks. And at this time we all saw RK900 as evil. No one had any real "soft" headcanons for him. I remember seeing the Harrison Ford meme go around at that time where Connor was "Baby boy, baby" and RK900 was "Evil."

However, two things happened that changed this. One, a couple people started pointing out some of Gavin's dumb charm, like not being able to say "fuck" properly and winking with both eyes, which softened us to him. On top of that, as Hankcon casefics were written more and more, it started to become common to have Gavin as a background character at the DPD. And in many of these Hankcon fics, there was a subplot about how RK900 showed up and became Gavin's partner (often those stories were from Connor's POV and dealt with his feelings of meeting an upgrade of himself). Coupled with this, a lot of artists like Don Lemefo were making extraordinary beautiful art of Reed900 together, entertaining the concept of them being partners.

The fandom started to agree rather quickly that RK900 and Reed being partnered just made sense - and to me, I think this stems from the HankCon arc in the base game. Take a detective droid like Connor and have the asshole cop learn to love him - but Reed900 inverts many of the Hankcon tropes quite intentionally.

As more fics were written, people gave Gavin the habit of smoking to be "the opposite" of Hank's drinking. They gave Gavin a cat to be the opposite of Hank's dog. Many times Gavin is shown as anxious to contrast with Hank having depression. And then, we kind of can't ignore the big sexy elephant in the room lol. In Reed900, the human detective is generally seen as the bottom, while in HankCon, the human is generally seen as the top (don't @ me, I am speaking in majorities, not absolutes). As for 900, he is often a harder version than Connor - more sarcastic, more "take no shit," more aggressive in his dynamic with his human. I once saw someone say Reed900 was invented to give Gavin a dom, and I can't really disagree with that - although D/s and BDSM fics for HankCon absolutely did exist (there's one called Scratch that comes to mind) Reed900 seemed a more organic outlet for that sort of expression, imo. The fics I saw for Reed900 at that time were much more extreme, much more masochistic, just generally kinkier than it's sister ship.

So Reed900 provides a similar attractive dynamic, but offers a different version of HankCon, and allows writers to start from day ONE of their meeting rather than having the baggage of canon to deal with. Very quickly they started to become of equal importance to the fandom as Hankcon was, often paired up together as sister ships in solidarity. Kind of a Goofus and Galiant double date, where HankCon were loving and doting and Reed900 were the old married couple who called each other "assholes." Of course over time, fandom can't resist fluff, so Reed900 evolved from its BDSM/hatesex roots and a few slow burns like Fuck Pride and Like A Light I'm Luring You, along with some more comedic fics like DPD, cemented the idea that Gavin and 900 could actually LOVE each other. Even in the case of slow burns that were still sexy, like No Strings Attached, the softer side of the ship rose to become what I feel is now the most widespread version of the boys in English speaking fandom. Fanon Gavin was also softer and usually given a lot more redemption and development compared to his canon origin.

It always confuses me when people tell me that DE is the only Reed900 they enjoy because "regular Reed900 is too abusive." I have not seen such a thing in YEARS at this point. The overwhelming majority of Reed900 content created in the past year and a half has been incredibly soft, and very similar to how they are portrayed in Evolution. I did not invent that - it was pulled from all of my experience in fandom. The only thing I can say is that Russian fandom seems to have still held on to the idea of RK900 as a dominant tank, because I get a lot of comments from them about how my Nines is too soft compared to their version of him.

Also regarding the name Nines - I first saw this used in a fic by TerminallyDepraved back in July 2018 or so. Richard was the most popular name at first (a joke of his nickname being "dick", because....Gavin), especially because Brandon McCauley used it in what was, at the time, the most visible Reed900 casefic/slow burn series. It was also the summer of a thousand names of 900 lol, as every damn fic had a different one back then. Kay, Ace, Alex, Conner, Oleg (wtf Russia), Conrad, Conan, Collin, and some just left it RK or R. Over time the Richard name kinda faded for English speakers (although Russia holds it high still) and Nines/RK are pretty much the main ones I've seen for some time. Nines took awhile to catch on, as it's the name of a character in Nier Automata as well and that was hard for some of us to reconcile, but eventually it stuck.

TLDR, why I personally love Reed900 is a whole other story that basically comes down to "I'm Gavin and I need a Nines" (which Austin essentially is for me lol). I love enemies to lovers, I love work partners, and I love the possibilities. HankCon started to wear on me after awhile when I felt like I was reading the same thing over and over, and I eventually fell out of it. I didn't ever get that fatigue with Gavin and Nines for whatever reason. I just love them, more than I hate any of the struggle of making films, so that's the short of it.

Bear in mind this is one person's POV of how the fandom evolved so it's not an absolute truth, especially outside of English fandom. I was primarily on Tumblr and AO3 at the time but things on Twitter Jericho and Discord were not on my radar and may have been different back then (Hankcon was probably a lot hornier on Twitter Jericho than it was on Tumblr, for example).

What you gotta understand about Reed900 fandom though is 1) it wasn't random, 2) it wasn't a fucking "har har crackship" like people dismiss it as and it barely even spent time as a "rarepair", and 3) even though it isn't canon, it is so rooted in fanon at this point that there's a lot for new folks to catch up on, lol. Sorry I'm on mobile and can't put this under a cut rn - hopefully it isn't too annoyingly long. 👀

[ravenclaw-questions-gone-writing]

Trope Snippets

Summary: Sneak peeks into a Maribat fic that I’m working on and may never post. Easily subject to change as I sort through the plot bunnies. Following no particular time line. On my Ao3: TiredFictionGate

Chapter 1 There is me, Zio

“Lila Rossi?” Adrian asked.

Marinette nodded, rubbing her temples in an attempt to relieve her headache. “In the show, she lied for attention. I don’t know much about her. She only showed up in the first season once, but from what I picked up from the fandom, she threatened and bullied canon Marinette in the following seasons. I don’t know how much of that is fanon though. Something about chameleon salt… I think that might have been an episode name.” Marinette bit her lip. “I’m not too certain, really.”

Adrian hummed. “So how big of a threat is she?”

“Apparently she was willing to work with Hawkmoth to get what she wanted, like willingly and not just brainwashed in the heat of negative emotion. I’d say she’s a goon level minor annoyance. If I recall correctly, all she does is lie and throw tantrums when things don’t go her way.”

“Well, we’ve already dealt with Hawkmoth, so what’s the problem?”

“I don’t know.” Marinette frowned, fiddling with her bracelet. “Just a bad feeling, I guess.”

“Like scary magic intuition bad feeling?”

Marinette huffed and rolled her eyes. “Just keep your guard up. Things aren’t canon anymore, if they ever were, but that doesn’t mean things will be peaceful.”

“Things are never peaceful with us.” Adrian muttered as he opened the door to their classroom for them. Marinette hooked their arms together, ready to begin their dating charade.

Their classmates were clustered around two unfamiliar people.

“Oh gods, there’s two of them,” Marinette groaned quietly as she buried her face into Adrian’s arm. No wonder her instincts had been going off all morning, giving her the massive headache she was dealing with right now.

“Hey dudes,” Nino called. “Glad you guys aren't too busy making out to get to class on time.”

“Hey Nino, who are they?” Adrian asked, eyeing the two unknowns behind his bright smile.

“New students,” Alya beamed at them, excited to spread news.

“They’re twins!” Rose chirped.

“Hi, I’m Lila.” the female twin greeted, giving Marinette a politely dismissive look and zeroing in appreciatively on Adrian.

“Fabrizio. Just call me Zio,” the male twin smiled, his eyes sweeping calculatingly over the two reincarnators and lingering on Marinette in a predatory way.

“You expected there to be one Rossi, but you were wrong, there is me, Zio.” Marinette mumbled into Adrian’s ear, trying to ignore her growing headache. Could they be any more obvious?

Adrian choked on air and turned away as he attempted to cover up his laughter as a coughing fit. “Mari!” he hissed, sending her a glare with no heat.

Marinette gave Adrian a cheshire’s grin before turning back to their two new classmates and giving them a customer service smile that was so natural only Adrian could tell the difference. “I’m Marinette and that’s my boyfriend Adrian. It’s nice to meet you two.”

“Sickeningly sweet as always,” Alya cooed teasingly.

“Marinette’s the class president and big sister, if you need anything, just go to her.” Alya explained needlessly.

“Hey, doesn’t Zio mean uncle in Italian?” Adrian asked.

Fabrizio gave a short chuckle. “Yeah, I was something of an older brother for my old class too, kind of like you.” He said, giving Marinette a playful wink. “But they called me uncle because it’s already in my name.”

Marinette gave him a polite nod, customer service smile still on her face. “How interesting! I’m sure you’ll fit in just as well here.”

Thankfully Bustier came in and the class dispersed and went to their seats. Marinette was seated in the back and away from either of the Rossi’s who apparently liked to sit up front.

-

“There’s something off about them,” Adrian commented once they’d made it to their hero hideout that they still didn’t have a name or code for. “They’re magical aura is too strong for people without cores. Or is that a twin thing?”

“Twins with magic have a habit of either cancelling or amplifying each other’s powers. So yes, it’s probably the twin thing. What I thought was interesting is that it doesn’t feel completely human in nature.” Marinette answered, taking notes on the things she’d noticed about the Rossi twins before she forgot them. “An atavism, I’m guessing.”

“Magical creature blood, abilities, and no training.” Adrian nodded. “That’s not a good combination. On the bright side, they’re probably not even aware they have magic and they definitely can’t use it if they haven’t formed a core.”

“A fairly safe assumption but there is a chance they could learn and figure it out on their own.” Marinette tapped her pencil against the pages of her notebook. “We should figure out what they’re descended from to prepare...” She words devolved into mumbling over her notes.

Adrian huffed. “You’re being paranoid. They’re just kids.”

Marinette stopped tapping as she pursed her lips and gave her partner a dirty look.

He rolled his eyes and leaned back against the bookshelves. “Yes, yes. I know. Be prepared for anything. Don’t underestimate someone based on their age, gender, alignment, or anything else.”

“They won’t be kids forever.”

Adrian sighed but despite his misgivings, he gave his own observations. “I’m certain their magic has a connection with the moon but it’s not a moon alignment. It’ll take a while to sort through the possibilities but I’m positive that what they use is metaphysical in nature.”

Fortune telling, illusions, mind reading, mind control, hypnotism, puppeteering… that sort of thing.

“And that Fabrizio kid is the stronger twin.”

Marinette nodded, she’d noticed that too. “At least they’re not descended from Selkies, the magic doesn’t feel quite like that special signature combination feeling. I can’t rule out Sirens though.”

“Thank the gods,” Adrian muttered. Selkies were a pain to make enemies of as their songs could neutralize or strengthen certain kinds of magic. Sirens, while more vicious, were far more manageable.

“I know you’re busy planning how to take them down but don’t you think we should train them or something?” Adrian asked. “Untrained magic users can be pretty dangerous.”

“I'm biased but they seemed to me like the kind of people who would abuse power. Trained magic users willing to abuse their powers, particularly when dealing with mind magics, seem far more dangerous, if you ask me.”

Marinette sighed and leaned back into the couch she sat on. “But I’ll leave it up to you to decide if they should be trained but please learn what kind of people they are before you make that decision. Watch them for two months, at the very least.”

Adrian nodded.

“And ask the Beaumont's, the Li’s and Father for advice.” Marinette ran a hand through her hair. “You should also-”

“Marinette,” Adrian stressed. “I get it, I’ll be careful. Stop worrying.”

“Telling me to stop worrying isn’t going to make me stop.” she hissed. Nevertheless, she forced herself to relax.

This was actually written a while ago, when I wanted an eviler Rossi than Lila.

-

In this fic, Lila's basically a minor inconvenience because reincarnated Marinette used to be and sometimes still is worse than Lila when it comes to manipulations and the like. So I needed someone worse than Lila to be the bad guy and since Adrian is also a reincarnator, it can't be Adrian salt. So I made Fabrizio the magical stalker creep to pick up the slack. He's where I was going to shove all the Adrian salt, but he's since been replaced since I couldn't figure out how to fit him into the timeline. Might save him for another fic.

Sorry the characters are all flat, I was just testing them out.

Chapter 2

[e-vasong]

Can I ask about your writing process?

Huge fan of your TUA fics here - the way you just GET the characters is incredible - its almost like reading a novel written by the actual show writers!

How do you go about your characterisation and your drafting process? Any tips on nailing the complexities of the characters (specifically five)?

Thanks!!!

:') This is literally so nice I don't know how to respond, oh my goodness. I wish I had, like, life-altering writing wisdom for you here, but I honestly feel like my entire process is kind of a mess. I'll share it with you anyways, though, just in case you can glean anything helpful from it. I’ll tuck it below a cut, but here it is (ft. some of my specific characterization notes on Five, since you asked :D).

Pre-draft: Concept stage! This can be a variety of things -- sometimes it's a specific scene. For me it's usually a challenge of some sort. I like to take things that I think are unlikely for a character (under what circumstances would [x] character ever become a bad guy? How would [x] character’s secrets get revealed if they never talk willingly about their emotions?) Then I build out from there. I outline sometimes now, but I’ve been winging all my pieces for so long that it’s pretty tough for me. 

Draft one: Throw things at the wall. If I let myself, I will spend way too long agonizing on making every word perfect on the first go around, and I’ll never write anything. So draft one has permission to be as bad as it needs to be: sentence fragments, OOC dialogue/actions, clunky word choice, the whole nine yards. The most important thing is getting the words/scenes on the page.

Draft two: What sticks? Everyone is different -- I find it easier to edit than to write in the first place. So here’s where I look over my work from draft one. Is my sentence structure variable enough? How are their voices? Their actions? Does the narration work with the POV I’m using for the scene? 

Like, okay. I’m working on chapter two of the end of the war right now. Currently, it includes this line:

“How did you even—” Five starts, then shakes himself.  Absolutely not.  He isn’t entertaining this.  “Luther.”

In retrospect, I’m not wild about it. It doesn’t sound in character to me. I’m not pulling out receipts right now or anything, but the more I think about it, the more that I feel certain that Five rarely expresses surprise unless really shocked. Part of this is likely the contrast between him in his siblings (all the stuff about the Apocalypse and time travel is familiar to him and new to them, so the show has a lot of “Five explains [x] to his siblings while they look flabbergasted by him.”)

Anyways, it doesn’t sit right. So maybe, instead:

Five frowns, taken off guard. He could ask, but--quite frankly--he’s starting to think that he doesn’t want to know. He does, however, know what this is a preface to -- Luther is going to meddle. 

“Luther,” Five says it like a warning. Luther either doesn’t hear it or doesn’t care.

Anyways, rinse and repeat step two as much as necessary, and you basically have my entire drafting process.

Characterization, though, I have a more thorough process for!

Fanon and meta is super, super helpful, but I definitely prefer to look at canon first and foremost. I find it easiest to build characterization by asking myself questions about the character! I mean, don’t get me wrong. The first step is just to...get your own read on their personality? And there’s no trick to that. Everyone comes away from watching a show/reading a book with a slightly different interpretation of a character’s personality. But when building off of that to write them, I find questions helpful. They vary from fandom to fandom, but, like, here are some of the questions I’ve asked myself while writing Five.

What motivates them? For Five, this is a super easy one. He literally says it at multiple points throughout the show. He’s motivated by his family. To the point of wanting to save the world because they’re a part of it. Five troops through injury and pain and discomfort, but one reference from Handler about a deal to save his family is enough to coerce Five into 1 - working with her when he doesn’t want to and 2 - taking a job that he doesn’t seem like he wants to take.

How far are they willing to go to get it? For Five, he’s willing to do pretty much anything.

Are there any contradictions in their characterization? This is a weirdly specific question, but! People are inherently contradictory. Sometimes in TV or movies or books, it’s just bad writing. But sometimes it’s because people are complicated. So, in TUA, Five is consistently a big-picture thinker throughout the series. He seems to view his job at the Commission with apathy because he knows that it’s part of maintaining the timeline and necessary for him to get back home and stop the Apocalypse. He plans to kill an innocent person because he believes the butterfly effect of their death could stop the end of the world. He is, in many ways, a utilitarian -- the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. The greater good sometimes requires a lesser evil. Pull the lever in the trolley problem, and kill the one to save the five. Unless that one is one of Five’s siblings. 

For instance, his dialogue with the Handler in season one seems to imply that he is willing to give up fighting the Apocalypse if and only if she can guarantee his siblings’ safety (though this admittedly turns on how honest you think he was being with her -- I think he was honest, but smart enough to know she’d never follow through, but a fair argument can be made either way.) There are a million ways to read this, and the fun of playing with characterization is that you get to experiment with them! I read it as proof that Five is so driven by his desire to save his siblings that he actually places their wellbeing above his own moral compass (whether his moral compass is right or wrong is a whole other debate.)

What are they like at their best vs. at their worst? At his best, Five is strategic, driven, independent, determined, loyal, and protective. At his worst, he’s controlling, suspicious, bloodthirsty, temperamental, and obsessive. Of course, most people don’t just switch between these two extremes, and these traits frequently coexist, interact, and manifest in milder ways.  Five being suspicious usually manifests as him being cautious until he’s confronted with a character (in season two, Lila) that strikes him the wrong way. Him being obsessive is often just a side product of the fact that he is determined, loyal, and protective.  The fact that he can be controlling is connected to how independent he can be -- the same reason that Five tries to keep Diego in the mental hospital, never tells people that he’s injured, and hides things from them is the same reason he’s so quick and effective at getting things done. This is just a handy way of compiling a flaws/virtues list, and I like to look at it in terms of the potential extremes because I think it makes it easier to see how they interact to create the middle ground where the character actually exists.

How do they talk? Arguably the most important question for actually getting their voice, and the easiest way to nail this down is to just...look at the canon dialogue. Does the character use really big words? Do they talk in long gusts or in short, clipped sentences?  Do they use contractions more or do they not shorten things? This is the hardest part of writing Five for me, because my first impulse is to make him talk like an Intellectual (tm) and Very Erudite Adult. Like, I default to that when writing him, and it’s a horrible habit (in my opinion) because...while he does speak that way sometimes (usually when explaining things to his siblings) that’s not actually how he talks most of the time.  (Like, for instance, I tend to default away from Five using contractions in my first drafts of things. He actually uses contractions a lot, and frequently shortens words--”got to” is “gotta” for Five, “because” becomes “‘cause”, etc.) 

Other examples:

Five: Billions of people are about to die tonight. You can change that.

The Handler: Tonight, tomorrow. So little difference in the scheme of things. Don't you remember the Commission's raison d'etre? What's meant to be is meant to be, or, as I like to say, que será, será.

Five: It's bullshit in any language.

I love this exchange so much :D. And it establishes some great things about the way Five talks! He doesn’t dance around the issue or debate her or try and prove her wrong. He just tells her he thinks that that opinion is dumb, obviously.  He’s blunt, straightforward, and honest. (This seems to tie into the thing I was saying about Five and contractions -- he picks the most straightforward way of saying things unless he’s giving a technical explanation.)

Five: Okay, Luther, but be careful. I mean, I've... I've lived a long life, but you're still a young man. You got your whole life ahead of you. Don't waste it.

Five talks like an old man. Not all the time (though there’s a wonderful gif set out there somewhere of Five using old timer slang -- wait, I found it here.) He doesn’t use the old-timey slang all the time -- and I personally like the idea of mixing up Five’s slang habits and including slang from all sorts of eras because he’s a time traveler whose primary source of interaction after four decades alone was other time traveling assassins. But! He also talks in a way where he shows his age. 

Regardless of where you think Five’s psychological age falls (I have my own Opinions on this), he seems to unilaterally view himself as the Big Sibling, and by a very large margin at that. That’s reflected in how he talks. Not always, since not every line of dialogue is relevant to his age. But stuff like this, or related to it, crops up a fair amount. He counsels his siblings on their problems (as when he comforted Diego post-Eudora’s death), and there are little moments like the quote above, where the point is that Five has indeed seen many more years than his siblings and has the perspective to reflect that.

Well, this is way too long now, and it’s really late where I’m at. I feel like the comprehensibility of this post has been steadily declining the whole time, but if other writers have tips that they want to add onto this, please go ahead!