#loveless rants

[loveless-arobee]

On Queerplatonic Relationships and Amatonormativity

Or: some thoughts on QPRs and why I think that word should be taken away from some of you. Or: Why I can't with some parts of the online aromantic community. (Only some! Most of you are great.)

Disclaimer: If you use QPR to describe any of your relationships, this is not an attack on you, personally. I don't have anything against the concept of QPRs, nor against anyone who has this kind of relationship. If you are in a QPR or want one, all power to you!

These are also mostly just my rambly thoughts and not an insult or attack to anyone personally. It is, however, totally an attack on amatonormativity. But mostly just ranting. Have fun.

Great wall of text incoming. I have a lot of thoughts currently.

First, let's get our definition down: The "queer" in queerplatonic, or queer-platonic does not mean the same as "queer" for people in the LGBT+ community. It has the same root, the word for weird or outside of social norms, but it does not refer to the LGBT+ community. Another word for it is quasi-platonic, but queer-platonic is more widely known. As the root of the name implies, there is no real definition! Anything that is "weird for a platonic relationship", so to say, might be queerplatonic! Anything that falls outside the social norms for a friendship; which means what it means also changes based on the society around you! Yes, that can be a lot.

This means anyone can have a QPR; gay, straight, lesbian, bi, aro, allo, or ace. Anyone. An allo lesbian could be in a QPR with an allo gay man. Two straight guys could be in a QPR. A FWB-arrangement/sexual friendship could be called QPR. Hell, even a straight woman and a straight man can call their relationship a QPR.

Now that we know what a QPR is, I also want to make clear what QPRs are not!

QPRs are not deeper than "just" friendship. They are not somewhere between romantic relationships and friendship ( as in, "in the hierarchy of relationships", I'll get to that.) They are not "relationships, but for aros".

Now, the definition of amatonormativity for anyone who is new here: Amatonormativity is the assumption that all human beings pursue love or romance, especially by means of a monogamous long-term relationship; this is the shortest possible explanation, but it’ll be enough for now.

I want to start with the societal hierarchy of relationships. And that always starts with my hatred of the phrase "just friends"!

I absolutely hate this phrase. I despise it. In both directions: There is "People who are just friends wouldn't do that" (kiss or cuddle for example), or the opposite "They are just friends" (presumably because they don't do "that"). Or "they are more than friends".

Society has put relationships in a hierarchy: simplified, friends are at the bottom, family above them, and at the very top is the monogamous, romantic partner for whom you're supposed to put the first two behind. That is mostly known by people who started to look into amatonormativity.

Now, there are some people who think it is "dismanteling amatonormativity" to simply put another box into the pyramid, squish it in between friends and romantic partner, and label it "queerplatonic relationships", and that's it. They still say this type of relationship is "more than friendship".

But friends are not less than romantic or queerplatonic partners (or family, for that matter); and honestly whenever I hear the phrase "just friends", I assume the person who used it is just a horrible friend who does not at all care for their friends, and always puts them behind their romantic partner(s). Because this phrase does insinuate that friendship is worth less than other types of relationships.

To dismantle amatonormativity, we have to dismantle the idea that friends are "lesser than". And we have to dethrone romantic relationships. Not just add another layer to it.

But now, exept for the people who do what I stated above, what elso do queerplatonic relationships have to do with amatonormativity? Glad you asked!

I see a lot of aros taking the word "queerplatonic" and never deconstructing their own, internalized amatonormativity further. They'll say exactly the same things alloros say, just swaping (romantic) relationship/partner/lover for queerplatonic relationship/partner. I know people are in different stages of finding themselves and understanding amatonormativity, but it tires me out listening to them doing the exact same things that also harm them.

An example of this is aromantic people crying about how much they want a QPR, where to find a QPP, that they are so lonely and need a partner. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but do you not have any friends?

I know they do this because they want the closeness and love society has promised they'd find in a romantic relationship. But now that they've noticed they don't actually want this, they took the "next best thing" and ran with it.

But that is just amatonormativity. It should be questioned further. Why do you want a QPR so badly? Why is "just friends" not enough for you? What can you get out of a relationship that you couldn't also get from friends? What kind of assumptions are you making here?

Relationships, both queerplatonic and romantic, are not the be-all end-all of life. If you cannot be happy single, you will not be happy in a commited relationship of any kind. Sorry to say it so bluntly, but you really can't put your only source of happiness on one person. That is the whole essence of amatonormativity.

You know what the solution is? Find friends! Online or in real life, any maybe you'll find a QPR in there, too. You're not alone, and no matter what amatonormativity tells you, you don't need to be in a commited relationship of any kind to be deserving of whatever it is you want from a QPP! Be that love, intimacy, sex, commitment, a roommate, someone who'll raise a child with you or whatever. Because whatever you can get out of a romantic relationship or a queerplatonic relationship, you also can get out of friendship! Surprise! There are no borders between any of those. It's all just human connection, and whatever word you put on it, only the people inside the relationship can decide what their relationship entails, and what it doesn't!

Yes, that means two friends can totally raise a child together. They can even make that child together! There are no rules. Friends can marry, fuck, buy a house together, be committed to each other and share important life decisions. Romantic/queerplatonic partners could do any of those things, or nothing of it. All this is part of dismantling amatonormativity. Getting rid of all those borders and societal norms, stopping to police what people can or can’t do in what kind of relationships.

That was already a lot, but I'm not done yet.

Another thing I noticed in a-spec spaces is, well, the almost-forcing the QPR on other a-spec people. Not everyone wants a QPR, not every aromantic person is even partnering. I, for example, am completely non-partnering. This includes both romantic relationships and QPRs, and whatever other type of commited relationship you can think of. I only do friendship (and not even that really, but that's my extreme introversion, and has nothing to do with this text.)

There are more people like me out there. Acting like every aromantic person wants a QPR is actively erasing us from the aro-community, and in the end no different than alloros acting like every person should want a romantic relationship, and that aromantics are mentally ill for not wanting that. Y'all are doing the same thing just with different words.

It just feels very alienating, especially coming from my own community. Even more so when it’s happening in the same posts that also point out how bad amatonormativity is for everyone.

Idk, I just wish that would stop and people would just listen to more perspectives outside of their own.

Anyways, have a nice day. I’m done for now.

[zonatcannibalism]

"Aspec people are not monsters, they still feel love" Aspec people are not monsters beacuse we are living breathing human beings and not some cartoon villain. Some Aspec people don't feel love, not romantic love, not platonic love, nothing. Some allo people don't feel love too, even if they do feel attraction. That doesn't make us any less valuable. That dosent mean we don't have any feelings. Were not valuable beacuse we can fit your idea of what's good and "human", were valuable beacuse were people not hurting anyone and just trying to live our fucking lives. WE ARE NOT MONSTERS. were just different then you. The whole idea of love, romantic love, platonic love, familial love, a bond that is the most valuable thing ever and nothing can defeat, is something that some people could never reach, just beacuse we don't understand what it is. And thats ok.

[silvermoon424]

If you haven't heard, Steven Crowder is getting divorced. In his video on the matter, he strongly implies that if it were up to him he would force his wife to stay married to him but "the state of Texas allows one party to divorce the other for any reason" or whatever. He makes it clear that he disagrees with this position and is pretty anti-divorce in general.

Hasan did a video covering it and I and a lot of other people commented on how fucked up that is. I shit you not, there are a bunch of conservatives coming out of the woodwork to argue with us, saying shit like "but when you get married you make a lifelong promise" and "but what about the kids?" and "it's messed up to vow to stay with someone through thick and thin and then leave them when you're unhappy." I got into an argument with a few people, trying to explain how the "sanctity of marriage" does not override someone's ability to be free of a situation that creates undue suffering and distress, and they basically just kept falling back on "yeah but when you get married you pinky swear to stay together 4ever"

Idk why these guys are so salty, back in the days before divorce there was a good chance they would have died of a mysterious wasting illness after eating their wives' cooking.

[purpletrashcans]

I am so fucking annoyed and here is why

I recently made the discovery that i'm probably aromantic and i would like to do what i did when i discoverd that i'm trans which is go and watch/read everything that even has the tiniest bit of trans representation in it, but i can't because there is no aromantic representation

now obviously that's nothing new, i was aware of this problem before and it pissed me right off then as much as it does now

it’s honestly just such bullshit that whenever there is an asexual character in media, basically the first thing they say after coming out as ace is that "they still want to fall in love" like not wanting, not being able to feel romantic love, would make them less human or something like that and of course there are ace people who are not aro, i'm not saying that and i'm not trying to shit on anybodys identity, if you are ace and not aro you are just as valid as anybody else and this lack of aro rep is obviously not your fault, we also need more ace rep while we're on it, that's not the point i'm trying to make, what i mean is that media always tells us that romance makes us human and if you don’t experience that you are either immature, unstable or not human and that's just bullshit

also it is no wonder that when i told my grandma about Loveless by Alice Oseman and how much i love this book, she was worried that i was like Georgia because i never like anyone romantically, she has never heard of aromanticism before, when she thinks of adult people that have never been in a relationship and don't have children she thinks of lonely, sad people and she doesn't want that for me

it is no wonder that when i see my greataunt and -uncle once a year they ask if i have a partner and when i say that no, i don't have a partner, they tell me that i have time and i'll meet someone eventually

and it is no wonder that so, so many people think that they're broken, that they enter relationships and situations that they don't want to be in, that fucking therapist try to cure people, that it took me 21 years, almost losing my friends, actually losing 8 kg in two months do to disordered eating and reading Loveless two times to figure out that i might just be aro, when there is barely any representation whatsoever, when most people haven't even heard of aromanticism

we need more representation and we need it desperately, that way not only will aro people discover their identity sooner and safe themselves a whole lot of trouble, but allo people can also learn how to react to someone being aro and we can all learn that being aro isn't sad or inhumane or weird or lonely

and because i'm a fancy-schmancy college student (who wrote "collage" instead of "college" first because i can not spell)(and have watched too much criminal minds) i would like to end this with a quote by Mariah Wright Edelman (tho the quotes are the worst part of criminal minds, they are so cringe istg):

“You can’t be what you can’t see”

[thexie-and-stars]

welp

The deeper meaning of the osemanverse books and how they can be used to teach teenagers morals - An Essay

Okay, so. The osemanverse is a very in-depth universe. we have places, we have names, we have schools, we can take any village in kent and basically apply the town of truham to it. Unlike most stories about morals aimed at teens, the characters are relatable. we have teens struggling with mental health, bullying and a whole set of real-world issues teens face. we also and some element of chaos that the average teen might not experience. For example, the solitare pranksters. BUT, even the pranksters have some element of moral. They're trying to get people see the light in a dark place, high school, but they fuck UP. Even after several years, they are still not forgiven, with higgs still being under repairs and the historic grounds probably never being fully restored, this resemebles how, even after years and therapy and healing, some scars will run deeper then you can imagine. Radio silence has a over acheiving secret fan geek who's almost completely burnt out, and a burnt out queer person who makes a podcast and his mother is abusive. Sadly, a lot of teens have less than ideal parents, including myself, and having a character who represents you, has problems like yours, and trys to fix them? That can give teens hope, and hope is a rare thing, with dirt on it's knees. Loveless is about a girl who struggles to find herself, causing harm to herself and others. she tries on different personas, trying to see if one fits, but none do. when she finds one that fits, she realises how much damage has occured and tries to fix it. The people she's hurt take a while to forgive her, which is good! Healing takes time.

What are teens afraid of doing? Fucking up. Yes, most YA novels focus on the fuck ups, but Alice Oseman really illustrates how gut wrenching it is to fuck up, and eventually, you heal. Healing takes time, Healing isn't linear, and of course, finding yourself is the most important thing you can do.

Thank You, Alice Oseman, for nurturing us and teaching us how to be.

Thank You for coming to my ted talk!

[mayamoosher]

LOVLESS

I LOVED LOVLESS SM LIKE OMFG IT WAS SO LIKE ME I LOVED IT SO MUCH. ANYWAY it was just such a good overall book, everytime i read an alice oseman book it just makes me get so giddy and go yipee hurray. BUT that book was so good, spent the last like 2 straight days reading it and was for sure worth the time

[fallenrain40]

silly little rant about my aro identity

i get that i am aroflux now, but i think my sort of, base aromantic identity is a loveless aro. i think i do feel love for my friends, but it's... very different than most people's idea of love i think. i can't explain why it's different, it just is. i feel most at peace with my aromantic identity when i call myself loveless. it's why things like "aromantics can still feel love" "aroaces can still be in relationships" bother me. while those are often true statements, i don't like the idea that we have to defend ourselves by saying we can still love... why would it be wrong if we didn't feel any love? i can still feel happy. i can still care about others. i can still trust and respect others. i can still admire others. i can still hang out with people. i can do all of those things without love. and the strongest love i've ever even felt I think, is love for pets. it's harder for me to feel connected to people in such a strong way. but i don't see it as a bad thing. and, another reason why I feel i am a loveless aromatic is that, when i was little, i remember thinking to myself- quite a few times actually- "it's not my fault I don't feel love". maybe the reason i felt this way was because my family was a mess. but maybe it doesn't really matter, because it's true. it's not my fault i don't feel love, and i think i can be happy without it. i'm not going to pretend to feel something i don't.

[enverni]

I just spent all my remaining money on Loveless, Nick and Charlie, and This Winter. I now have the whole Osemanverse collection apart from heartstopper books one, two, and four (three is the best that's why I have it) I am super dooper exited and I want to do loveless for my english book report even though I go to a slightly homophobic Christian school BUT WHOS GONNA STOP ME

[mariagreenwoodart]

Ladies and gentlemen, I got him.

[roseofspades]

don’t get me wrong i absolutely love heartstopper but they way every single other alice oseman book is always first and foremost about friendship i just- i love heartstopper but i’m obsessed with radio silence and solitaire and iwbft and loveless because of something about those friendships which is just so beautiful. incredible and beautiful forms of platonic love is what her books capture so brilliantly. and yes it does kinda disappoint me that only the work that centres around a romantic relationship one gets recognition by general audiences, because while heartstopper is lovely, the whole of the osemanverse is about more than just teenagers coupling up for triple dates. i do think having isaac in the show will allow for some important discussion of aroace experiences and i really hope as things go on, the rest of alice oseman’s work will get the appreciation it deserves. it would just mean so much if broader audiences could see platonic relationships and aro and ace identities as how central and beautiful they are in her other works rather than just through side characters where their feelings are secondary to the romantic relationships.

[loveless-arobee]

Being loveless sometimes feels very alienating.

Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy being loveless, I find a lot of pride in my aromanticism.

But whenever someone, especially other aros, start talking about love and about how everyone feels love, I just feel… infantilised? They act like I’m defining my emotions wrong, because ”there are different types of love! You can still feel platonic/familial/queerplatonic/… love!!!“…

And like… maybe you can. I don’t. I don’t like the word love for any of my emotions. That word doesn’t define me and my emotions.

Not loving is not a bad thing. A person not loving tells you absolutely nothing about that person, except that they don’t feel love. Everything else has nothing to do with that.

And it feels like they think I just slapped that label on myself without thinking about it. Which wouldn’t be wrong if anyone did that, really, do what feels right. But I probably spent more time thinking about love and different types of love before I came to the conclusion that none of that feels right.

Being loveless feels right. Love doesn’t.

And if that makes you feel bad, makes you assume my life must be horrible and lonely, or if you feel angry at me for disliking love, that’s your problem. Solve it yourself, don’t expect me to change for your comfort.

Literally, question why you feel so bad about another persons feelings. Why do you feel threatened by someone not feeling love? Honestly. Why do you want to force the word love on people who are so openly uncomfortable with that term?

I don’t understand love. I dislike the concept of love.

Don’t try to force words onto me. I am an adult, I know my own emotions better than you.

[undecized]

I'm reading Loveless by Alice Oseman (actually I'm about to finish it) and it honestly broke me. I think it's been years since I cried so hard reading a book. It awoke feelings I didn't even know I had. The fear of all my friends getting partners and moving on. Of ageing lonely.

I just read Rooney's declaration to Georgia and it had me bawling. I had to stop reading because my parents were heading back home and I didn't want them to see me like this.

Never has a piece of media made me feel so seen. I am ace and also honestly questioning whether I'm also aromantic or at least demiromantic, and I empathised so hard with Georgia.

Thank you @aliceoseman for the beautiful work.

[unapologticallyqueer]

I hate when people talk about love like it's this universal emotion that everyone feels and even when I say "I don't feel love, any type of love", the answer is always "well everyone feels love differently".

Like no. Not everyone. Some people just don't love. Be it platonic, romantic, fraternal or whatever.

[justanother-fan-girl]

Just A Shitty Day

6/2/24:“There’s a time and a place for being normal. For most people, normal is a default. But for some, like you and me, normal is something we have to bring out, like putting on a suit for a posh dinner.”- Alice Oseman

I had no motivation to do anything today. I didn't even watch T.V I literally did nothing today, I wanted to write a short story but I couldn't find my laptop. It would have been somewhat bearable if I slept or just scrolled all day, but I just didn't do anything.

Radio Silence folks.

Love you,

poet

[redysetdare]

*Sigh* every single day I see allo aspecs throwing a fit over aroaces posting about our experiences in the asexual and aromantic tags (especially the aromantic tag). Every. Single. Day. Like my sibling in talos what do you think aroace stands for? It stands for AromanticAsexual. Aroaces aren't any less aromantic than aroallos, and we're not any less asexual than alloaces. You're experiences aren't the "default" aro/ace experiences, get tf over yourselves. Why are we only "allowed" to use the aroace tag and not the aro and ace tags? And who made allo aspecs the authorities of the aspec communities?

I can understand to an extent where AlloAces and AroAllos are coming from in their frustration, but some in the tag have gotten to a point of kinda excluding aroaces.... I think a lot of people don't realize the "Aromantic" and "Asexual" tags are general tags for the community, so you're likely going to get a mix of everyone under those umbrellas. If you want specific content for a specific identity then you go to that identities tag. Also it's just frustrating because I've seen people blame aroaces for having posts "Clog up the tag" and it's like...the way to fix that is to make your own posts that YOU want to see. I never saw repulsed posts before I started making them. Sometimes if you want to see something then you got to do it yourself first. You can't expect people who are not of that identity to make posts about your identity - that's unreasonable.

Again, I understand where their feelings come from, everyone wants a voice and they feel drowned out - but when you start reaching for things to be mad at that are frankly petty (Legit saw someone get mad that the aroace, aromantic, and asexual tag always trend together. also saw someone saying the aroace tag had no right to trend on valentines day???) thats when I start to lose sympathy and start getting annoyed.

I'm willing to have a conversation about AroAllos and AlloAces experiences and the struggles they face inside and out of the community but once you start throwing other aspecs under the bus and blaming them for all your woes then I think You've lost the plot and I'm not as keen to listen to you then.

[locklylemybeloved]

this speech never fails to break me like i hope every single aspec person out there EVER finds a friend like rooney like this shit. this shit makes me want to SOB