#multigender discourse

[spoon-the-raccoon]

"We need more weird queers!" You can't handle actual queerness. The only queerness you can handle is heteronormative queerness of top and bottom same sex couples, strict binary trans people and Non-binary folks as a third gender. Don't even get me started how you can't handle anything above monogender, monosexual or monogamous. You can't handle arospec and acespec and any mixture of the two, especially aroallos. You can't handle intersex people just existing to be honest. Anything that challenges your shallow worldview of how things work is 'made up' or 'trying to win the oppression Olympics'.

You can't handle real queer people in the real queer world. If you said any of your shitty takes in real queer spaces nobody would trust you.

To you, being queer is just cishet+

[michaelmilkers]

"can men be lesbians?" bestie in 100 countries women can't be lesbians is this really the most pressing issue rn

[gray-ace-space]

recently encountered a post where someone said "gender is fluid but sexuality isn't". (they were talking about bi lesbians.)

my first thought was: does that person, like. hear what they're saying? how can you explicitly hold two beliefs that are so logically inconsistent and not see it? how can you simultaneously think gender is this fluid and complex thing, but sexuality, much of which is defined around gender, is simple and stationary and its boundaries need policing?

but like, fuck, why even argue against it, right? there is no internal logic because there is no logical thought behind it. these are not genuine beliefs. this person is repeating what is currently acceptable in their (small) specific social circle. this is the same person who, a few years back, would be excluding nonbinary lesbians, but nonbinary lesbians are cool and normal on queer tumblr now, so they'll exclude bi lesbians instead, and not even pause to reflect on the difference.

oh, and if you read this and thought "these people don't even actually accept nb lesbians either", ding ding ding! because it's not a real, deep belief, that acceptance is extremely shallow and conditional. so as soon as someone is an nb lesbian in a way these people find odd (like being both a man and a lesbian) they will exclude them too and find a way to justify it.

why do we have to endlessly go through this cycle with queer identities. can we not? can we just not. i'm tired.

[horsefigureoftheday]

unrelated to centaur horny hours (v good posts, pls keep them coming) I just wanted to say, it made me really happy to find out you're trans bc I’ve straight up NEVER met another trans horsegirl ;v; my world is becoming so vast and beautiful thanks to this blog 🩵🐴

Thank you! I am trans - sorta. My gender has always been what it is, so I don't really think of myself as transgender. I'm transsexual, I'm salmacian, I'm both a horsegirl and horseboy, and I'm not either or. I'm deliberately vague about my assigned gender because I hate when people ask questions that essentially boil down to "are you girl bigender or boy bigender."

While I haven't transitioned yet, for a variety of reasons, I'd prefer if people think of me as "both" in every way possible. I'm not a trans guy or trans girl, I'm a trans both. When I talk about my clit or dick or tits or pecs or womb or prostate, just assume I got it all.

I'm definitely more fem leaning, but I still identify strongly with my masculine aspects. Some weeks I identify more with my dick, sometimes more with my pussy. Sometimes it's a man's' dick and a woman's pussy. Usually it's a woman's dick and a man's pussy. If you follow this chart (also linked in my pinned) you'll be right most of the time:

[cardentist]

Fam how can one be trans in the direction of their assigned sex? I'm not even trying to make the idea sound ridiculous or anything. I'm genuinely curious and want to understand. I thought the whole meaning of trans was that you feel or act in the opposite direction of your assigned sex; if you're transfem but you're afab then to me that's just cisgender??? But like please explain to me how that's not the case if that's what you and others strongly feel so I may grow my compassion

Context: [Link]

well ! while I personally am not intersex, I DO want to highlight intersex people first and foremost.

gender and sex are very Very complex, and I think generally people don't consider the way that being intersex can play a big role in that!

there are intersex people who are afab who are also trans women, there are intersex people who are amab who are trans men, there are intersex people with many Many different relationships with sex and gender and anywhere in between !

an afab person can be born with masculine sex characteristics and transition the way trans women often do. that person May identify as trans, they may not ! that trans person may not even consider themselves a woman depending on who they are and what they want !

I Do think there needs to be an effort to be aware of and make space for intersex people within the trans community, and really the wider queer community as a whole. as it's often something that's given a footnote without deeper thought into the ways that intersex people Actually interact with our communities.

which I don't blame people for not already knowing ! that's the whole point of trying to educate people in the first place ^^

.

and as for Myself

labels are, ultimately, a form of gender presentation. what you call yourself is an extension of not only how you see yourself, but how Other People perceive you.

I could call myself nonbinary or I could call myself trans masc, and both would be Accurate. but people have certain traits and expectations and associations when they see those labels. there are assumptions made about the kind of life that I live, the things that I want, the things I might experience, that change depending on which labels that I use.

and that's not Inherently a bad thing ! I mean, that's part of why people Like labels. but it Can be a struggle for people whose gender is Funny.

I could Also describe myself as genderqueer or multi-gender or genderfluid or gnc or-. I've tried on lots and lots of labels, and for the most part I haven't thrown any of them out, I just keep them in a box under my bed and take them out when relevant.

I've been wrestling with the feminine aspect of my identity for a very Very long time. I've been aware that I'm some level of trans masc. that part was easy. I want a deeper voice, I want things about my body to change, I don't want people to look at me and see a cis woman.

but I Also like femininity. I've found that after accepting myself as trans masc and slowly growing an environment where I am Perceived as masculine, I've started getting euphoria at presenting femininely in the Same way that I did (and do!) get about presenting masculinely.

but that feeling doesn't carry over when I'm perceived as a cis woman. it's Quite Uncomfortable for obvious gender reasons.

and while I may not know the exact Words that I'd use to describe it (as I've said, I've been chewing on it for Many years now), I've gotten a clearer idea of how I Feel.

I want to be Visibly trans. I want to be perceived masculinely And femininely. I want to transition masculinely to present femininely (and sometimes butch, sometimes like your dad at the ace hardware store, I contain multitudes).

and of course, figuring out what I have going on has involve a lot of exploration ! it's the same way I figured out the whole trans masc thing in the first place. seeking out other trans people and other Things About trans people feeling things out.

I find ! that I have a lot of shared experiences with transfeminine people. both in how I feel about certain things, some of the presentation that I want, and in how people would React To said presentation.

my femininity Is Trans, I don't relate to cis womanhood. but I Do relate to trans femininity. which is really awkward for me, because it's difficult to describe it to other people fjksldljkasfdjklfasd

(I don't personally consider myself a trans woman mind, but I'm certain there Are people who are trans men and trans women at the same time. gender is complicated, sex is complicated. labels are malleable and sometimes situational)

Could I describe myself with a different label? probably ! I've got lots of them. but when I Don't put emphasis on this aspect of myself people assume that it's not there. insist that it Couldn't be there, and I don't know what I'm talking about. and those people who Would act nasty towards me probably aren't gonna change their mind just because I changed my bio. but it feels Nice to assert that aspect of myself when other people are trying to tear it down.

.

part of me feels like I should post the intersex portion of this by itself, because people tend to engage more with shorter posts and there's nothing Short about my gender situation ljkfdasjkls

but ! I dunno, if this makes even one person understand the gray areas of gender and presentation a little more it'll be worth it.

thank you for taking the time to ask ! and especially for doing so kindly ! I do hope you'll see this

[tofumarinado]

if you have trauma around men, it is unfortunately your responsibility to work on it. we are under no obligation to tolerate behaviors that hurt men and gender diverse individuals.

i know. it fucking sucks. it's unfair and it should have never happened. but your trauma responses are harming your community.

if you refuse to do the work required to heal, you'll end up surrounded only by people acting out their trauma who take no accountability for the damage they do to one another. it's only a matter of time before they end up hurting you. terfs are not your allies. radical feminists are not your friends.

you deserve to live in peace, to exist in a healthy community and be open and honest and vulnerable with your friends. do not let trauma take that away from you.

do better. for you and for your community.

[zootzbootz]

"you can't be bi and lesbian!"

"you can't be straight and gay!"

"you can't be allo and aspec!"

"you can't be a lesbian man!"

"you can't be a vincian woman!"

"you can't be cis and trans!"

multigender, abrosexual, and varioriented people have left the chat

In all reality, "contradictory" labels and the people who use them are wonderful/gen

[transmasc-lesboy-ramblings]

When will exclusionists finally realize that their logic makes no fucking sense?

''Oh I support multigender lesbians but I don't think lesbians who identity as men are valid'' My brother in christ,I will take your hands when I tell you this but multigender ppl can in fact identify as a man/man-alligned genders.Bc guess what ! Multigender identities are not monogender gender-neutral enby identities like yall think they are. Multigender people can identify as woman/woman-alligned genders and/or man/man-alligned genders. Saying you support us while also not supporting lesbians who identify as men is completly contradictory. Stop pretending to support multigender lesbians if you not only not understand multigender identities but also only support certain types of multigender lesbians. Its either you support all of us or none of us.

[spoon-the-raccoon]

"If we get rid of AGAB language how do we define being trans?"

By being trans, by going against how society sees you. Because guess what, not every trans person is going to transition, not every trans person fully removes themself from their "AGAB", not every trans person sees their transition as going from one side to the other.

Transgender is just a made up word just like every other word. It's a label you're supposed to use to help describe your experience, not another way to force others to conform.

Besides, AGAB language is completely useless when it is incredibly flawed. It just tells you what letter they put on your birth certificate and that is determined by your primary, secondary and beyond sexual characteristics. Guess what, not everybody's sexual characteristics fit, not everybody's "AGAB" fits them at all. Why? Because it's a pointless binary category based off of small minded individuals who think nature draws in straight lines and has a very simplified version of reality in this minds.

Also stop ignoring Intersex folks just because we don't fit your narrative and we're making you confront your own intersexism.

[michaelmilkers]

i'm regularly astounded by the cognitive dissonance some of yall have to accept that gender is a social construct with infinite possibilities with the capacity to be deeply personal and individual but still think there's a list of like 4 acceptable sexual orientations and if you go outside of that list or mix entries on that list or relate to them in a non-traditional way not only are you Breaking The Rules you're personally directly harming people who follow them

[thehealingsystem]

seeing posts like these make me realize more that this discourse is the most nitpicky shit I've ever seen

[cripp-tid]

reminder that "lesbian means attraction to non-men" is not as inclusive as you think! you're inherently leaving out multigender people, certain butches, and lesboys. like, some of us ARE male. "queer attraction to women" is a much more friendly definition

terfs fuck off and die challenge

[posting-stuffies]

Original | Exclu comments

Exclus went full circle.

"I'm attracted to one gender" -> "I am bisexual". Lolgic!

[sapphic-boy]

"men cant be lesbians!!!"

okay but what if someone is a bigender boygirl and likes girls so they're both a boy that likes girls and a girl that likes girls

"thats different!! they're nonbinary so they're actually a non-man and lesbian is non-man that likes non-men so thats fine!!"

so you're saying bigender people arent actually their two genders? that a bigender man+woman is actually not a man? interesting. i feel like we have a word for that.

[audhdnight]

You need to come to terms with the fact that there is nothing that makes men and women inherently different. Nothing. There is not a single characteristic that you can point to and say “yes that is a man thing and no woman does it” because there will always be exceptions, and a lot more of them than you think. Any time you try to separate the two (say for example in a discussion about reproductive rights) you exclude cis women with physical differences, trans women, intersex women, and yes even men who belong in the discussion as well.

There are boys that “look like” girls, girls that “look like” boys, non-binary people that look like one or both, and people who do fit in the gender binary but look like neither. There are girls that are also sometimes boys and vice versa. There are people whose gender fluctuates a lot and yet never lands on “man” or “woman” at all.

There is no separation of gender beyond what you as your own person decide your own gender is (and if you don’t want to decide that’s perfectly fine too). The more you accept that, the less you’ll police others’ identities and expressions, the more accepting you will become, and the better for it.

[ko-odi]

atp u could tell me any crazy obscure hyperspecific queer microlabel and 95% of the time id CHEER bcs seeing people argue over even the most basic level 2 lgbt concepts recently has been so frustrating