#steven universe discourse

[ndotmov]

pearl had one of the most reasonable crashouts in cartoon history I can’t imagine losing my 8 foot pink haired goddess after ~8000 years of fooling around together just for her to choose Greg after 5 minutes of knowing each other (in their perception of time) LOL. like I can go on and on about their (pearl and rose’s) dynamic as partners because I loooveee fictional messy complex relationships

[vinization]

Random thought, but I think people would've been a lot happier with Steven Universe's ending if the Diamonds (or even just White Diamond) had a fate similar to that of King Andrias from Amphibia. Like, sure, he was redeemed too, but he also got at least SOME kind of punishment for his crimes, as opposed to getting away with them completely scot-free.

[unagrancantidaddepanes]

ok i wasnt gonna do it i told myself no im just not gonna say anything on this drama but this is so MINDBOGGLING that i HAVE to make a post about this

i am gonna start by saying as someone on the arospectrum i personally see peridot as either fully aroace or arospec (i like headcanoning either one) and as in a qpr or plantonic friendship with lapis.

peridot has been confirmed to be intended to be read as aroace by a storyboard artist (maya peterson) that would focus on her character, i am not denying that,

however

she is also confirmed to be intended to be read as experiencing romantic attraction, by the OTHER storyboard artist who originally worked on peridot, jesse zuke, who has just as much authority to talk about peridots character, if not more since (to my knowledge) she was the original main storyboard artist for peridot

the intention behind what peridot is suppose to represent is fundamentally contradictory, there is absolutely no use fighting over it. this is so dumb to fight over YES both sides have been confirmed canon THATS WHY THIS IS DUMB </33

ive been trying to find as many actual sources as i can (which has been pretty difficult since A LOT has been deleted) but I finally found a transcript of one of jesse zukes posts that is deleted that everyone keeps referencing

from this reddit post https://www.reddit.com/r/stevenuniverse/comments/5q738i/lauren_zuke_speaks_of_her_intention/

(jesse was formerly known as lauren)

anyone posts something shipping peridot, u get a load of comments saying "this is aroace erasure, shes written as aroace, a storyboard artist said so", anyone posts something about peridot being canonically aroace, u get a load of comments saying "shes not canonically aroace, she was written as experiencing romantic attraction, a storyboard artist said so" everyone is either one or the other it seems like NO ONE is acknowledging that both is true and really this confusion is the fault of the crewniverse ????

these storyboard artists BOTH focused heavily on working on peridot and creating her character, and their intentions behind what she is are completely contradicting.

i would love for peridot to be aroace. to me she IS aroace, but im not going to pretend like this isnt the most confusing most unclear way of confirming that. even if maya peterson intended for her to be seen as aroace, jesse zuke wrote her as the complete opposite and it would be stupid of me to ignore that. harassing eachother over this is stupid. your both correct, now shake hands and make peace with eachother lol, good night.

As an arospec person I am completely fine with people shipping peridot and I do not think it is aroace erasure, because while I would love to see an orientation like mine depicted in a character like peridot, im not going to ignore that fact the she was ALSO originally meant to be read as experiencing romantic attraction AND the fact that many of the crewniverse ships peridot with people or supports others doing it. it is not aroace erasure to ship a character that was literally intended to be read as experiencing romantic attraction by some of the people who worked on her character. rebecca god damn sugar, the creator of steven universe has made fanart shipping peridot. peridots voice actor has said she likes and supports people shipping peridot. its just that different people working on the show had wildly different intentions when creating her character, and didnt clear up a solid identity for her with everyone working on her

jesse zuke said in her post "cant speak for anyone else! many people are writing those episodes". just like if maya peterson and anyone else working on peridot intended for her to be read as aroace, other people working on her character with just as much authority were writing her completely differently. people are not seeming to acknowledge that these two things co-exist. it is not one or the other. even though they are complete opposites, somehow theyve made it so that its both at once.

she was simultaneously written to be both aroace and experiencing romantic attraction by different people writing her character, clearly because of miscommunication within the crewniverse.

heres rebecca sugars ship art btw since the first 2 were really hard to find, in case anyone else wanted some sort of actual evidence of it

also just wanted to bring attention to jesse zuke saying "anyone who wants to see the narrative they want is completely, 100% allowed to". peridot and her episodes were written to have multiple interpretations. this was written with multiple intentions. some of those intentions were aroace, some of them, like jesse zukes, were not. you are all correct peace and love

update i found a slightly longer version of jesse zukes post in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=oIl1sEQ4_iI

"I wanted to close the book on this - I am queer, and intend fully to write queer characters when I do"

this is pretty clear confirmation that peridot was fully written with completely different ideas in mind from completely different people. jesse zuke INTENDED for peridot and lapis to be read as having a queer relationship, in this post shes encouraging people to read it that way, meanwhile other writers had other intentions which are just as real and valid.

inconsistency and messy production in steven universe is not a new thing

[pk-butter]

Insane to me that steven universe, of all shows, caused THAT much discourse, bcuz I rewatched the whole thing recently and my mind remains the same: that show was kind of mid overall, but really good in some parts and definitely didn’t deserve the shit that it stirs

[coolmaycroft]

The more time passes the more I think SU should've just moitted the diamonds because honestly those arcs weren't that entretaining

Your children's show unfortunately has the absolute wrong take on tackling fascism. Yeah the power of friendship angle is showing a dismal lack of understanding of Marxist theory or even intro-level Leninism. Yeah my only two interests are children's media and online leftist discourse so this is gonna be a problem.

[fandomsandfeminism]

Sometimes I think about how and why some people had such a *bad* reaction to the end of Steven Universe, specifically in regards to the Diamonds living.

Even though they no longer are causing harm to others and are able to actually undo some of their previous harm by living, some folks reacted as though this ending was somehow morally suspect. Morally bankrupt, even.

And I think it might be because so many of us were raised on a very specific kind of kids media trope:

They all fall to their deaths.

Disney loves chucking their bad guys off cliffs. And it makes sense- in a moral framework where villains *must* be punished (regardless of whether their death will actually prevent further harm or not), but killing of any kind is morally bad for the hero, the narrative must find a way to kill the villain without the protagonists doing a murder.

It's a moral assumption that a person can *deserve* to die, that it is cosmically just for them to die, that them dying is evidence that the story itself is morally good and correct. Scar *deserves* to die, but it would be bad for Simba to kill him. So....cliff. (edit: yes, cliff then hyenas. But cliff first. Lol.)

Steven Universe, whatever else it's faults, took a step back and said "but if killing people is bad, then people dying is bad", and instead of dropping White Diamond off a cliff, asked "what would actual *restorative*, not punitive, justice look like? What would actual reparations mean here? If the goal is to heal, not just to punish, how do we handle those who have done harm?" And then did that.

Which I think is interesting, and that there was pushback against it is interesting.

It also reminds me of the folks who get very weird about Aang not killing Ozai at the end of Avatar. And like, Ozai still gets chucked in prison, so it doesn't even push back on our cultural ideas of punitive justice *that much.* and still, I've seen people get real mad that the child monk who is the last survivor of a genocide that wiped out his entire pacifist culture didn't do a murder.

[ndotmov]

Funny moment of today:

@siggokart and I saw a Reddit post of who would win in a deathbattle between Invincible (Mark Grayson) or Steven (Steven Universe) and based on the mohrs hardness scale and Steven’s kill count (Jasper)—it would theoretically take around 30lbs of force to shatter a Jasper gem AT THE BARE MINIMUM and according to google, 16lbs of force for Mark to have fractured Conquest’s skull, so therefore Steven at the MINIMUM is twice the strength of Mark. Realistically they’d be friends and talk it out, but it’s sooooo funny being one of those power-scaling fanboys of "NO ACTUALLY STEVEN IS STRONGER THAN MARK”

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

“catra is a complex poc” fuck that. here are some ACTUAL poc animated characters who are just as, if not more complex than catra.

grace monroe (infinity train) • black american

connie maheshwaran (steven universe) • indian-american

katara (avatar the last airbender) • inuk

wolf (kipo and the age of wonderbeasts) • black american

suhara/shadowsan (carmen sandiego) • japanese

korra (the legend of korra) • inuk

jesse cosay (infinity train) • indigenous (apache)

lars barriga (steven universe) • filipino

azula (avatar the last airbender) • japanese

ryan akagi (infinity train) • japanese-canadian

luz noceda (the owl house) • afro-dominican american

(there are a lot more, so i'll be making a part 2!)

[letsplaythermalnuclearwar]

Which best describes the ship you're currently most obsessed with?

it doesn't have to accurately describe the ship, just the descriptor you think is the most fitting. all gendered language is there to preserve the meme and should be read as gender neutral. please reblog for a greater sample size. if you are equally obsessed with multiple ships or currently not obsessed with any, just pick a ship you enjoy (if you don't like any ships, the dynamic you think sounds the most entertaining)

edit: if multiple fit perfectly, chose the aspect you like best about the ship

[secretmellowblog]

Does anyone else remember that period when kids cartoons & their internet fandoms were pretending it was a Subversive Twist for a cartoon to have an irredeemable villain who the heroes kill. Like, for a while people totally forgot that “the heroes kill/imprison the evil villain” is actually the standard for kid’s cartoons. People lost their minds so much over steven’s universe or whatever that they forgot that it was an exception, and the vast majority of kids cartoons love having irredeemably evil villains who die or get imprisoned forever for the happy ending.

But I still remember this silly period of internet discourse, because I find it extremely funny.

If 2010s internet cartoon fandom watched Snow White and The Seven Dwarves : “omg the evil queen is irredeemably evil and then gets killed during a fight with the heroes?????? This is sUCH mature storytelling….. it’s so dark and subversive, how they acknowledged that some people just can’t be redeemed…. Omg so realistic…. This is how you know it’s really for adults… ”

[derekfoxwit]

How Animation Discourse Can Feel At Times: The Complete Collection

[pinkypastal]

Fandom please...

[aintnopartylikeaprideparty]

"we need more messy and toxic relationship dynamics in fiction!!" u guys can't even handle the non-canon Rebecca Sugar gregpearl art

[emasperusual]

From my experience, Steven Universe haters are the people who say queer is a slur. I'm not into Steven Universe at all, but the fandom really isn't better or worse than any other.

i'm gonna be brave and controversial and say steven universe existing isn't the reason young gay people aren't comfortable with slurs actually. i think there are other reasons for that.

[faelapis]

alright so re: my greg/pearl “discourse” post, i need to say another thing. calling out biphobia is important, yes... but apparently, i really should have stressed more how non-canon this is. like. i keep seeing people on twitter being like “wow, i had no idea pearl was canonically bi the whole time” or similar sentiments, and i’m like… no? she’s not? not as far as we know?

guys. random crew doodles are not… canon… 😭 there’s crew art of young greg, rose and 13-year-old STEVEN hanging out. which is impossible for several reasons.

i have yet to see anyone react to those whatever doodles with this response of “wow… this made me reconsider their relationship… it really Makes You Think.”

if a new SU spinoff/sequel came out, and pearl was openly like “i am bisexual and also in love with greg”, sure. i would get why people would have feelings about that. THEN we could discourse about biphobia vs lesbian representation.

but that… hasn’t happened. literally nothing canon-altering has occurred. at MOST, this was an earlier idea that got scrapped. that appears to be the story. but that’s about it.

calling out biphobia is important... but facts also matter? this is a non-story. yet people are out here writing essays about how this is Reframing All of Canon. 😭

this is crew art! by hilary florido!

so again, i ask you: where are my discourse essays about how greg is secretly still in his 20s, his balding is a lie, rose is alive AND they're both hanging out with steven? in alone at sea, of all episodes?

[ominous-horse-noises]

main takeaway from certain fan reactions to the finale is this:

the final scene with ankarna was so meaningful to the bad kids' arcs and how they made peace with being wronged by people they loved, and if all you can focus on is that the rat grinders didn't get much screentime, then you don't love dimension20 and you don't love this world: you want to be playing your own hs themed dnd campaign and you're mad the oc versions of the rat grinders you made up in your head acted ooc. these are not your characters and this is not their story.