#syscourse rant

[formidablefangs]

Love how pro endos always say "hope this helps" as if they haven't said the most stupid shit in your inbox.

Yes your threats and misinformed opinions are sooo helpful thank you, iv learned.

Learned absolutely fuck all.

[wizardpeebis]

dude, endos are VISCIOUS. like. i reblogged a few anti endo posts because i am a traumagen system who does not like to see their safe spaces gentrified by ppl forcing themselves into a disorder that’s ruined my life and continues to affect it in ways that are not net positive.

so then i got an ask that was p clearly designed to induce paranoia (i’m guessing they dug through my blog a bit and gathered that i’m schizo-affective) and god forbid i reply to a pro endo post that’s entirely misinformative about all systems, because i’ll be met with the most conniving, passive aggressive, and just plain mean remarks.

the real thing that gets me is that all of their oppression is entirely self imposed. they invade spaces, demand attention, and when they’re told that what they’re doing is wrong, they throw a tantrum and start linking twitter threads with cherry picked evidence about how right they are. they make up buzzwords that are just plain bastardizations of terms related to trans history and oppression, and that is not unintentional. it is a purposeful play on language to heighten the sense of a liberation front for something that simply does not exist. manipulation like that is outright disgusting, and i have no problem thinking less of people who believe that it is okay.

i am especially mad at all the misinformation that gets spread? as someone who is figuring their system out and trying to learn things, misinformation can be extremely dangerous for me and it’s more than disheartening to think i’ve learned something new only to see “pro endo” in the tags and realize that i can’t trust a word i’ve just read. i don’t get why they can’t at least keep it to themselves if they can’t just shut up about it forever and always.

i’m just. eugh. i’m so sick of people in general taking oppressed identities and tacking them on as personality traits for brownie points and endos are an amazing punching bag ❤️

[interstellarsystem]

We're obviously pro-endo and have a lot of headmates who are endogenic, but we do have DID and a lot of trauma worked its way into our formation of our system. Which leaves us in a pretty weird spot in syscourse!

But one of the weirdest things we've noticed is... A lot of the anti endo mindset is completely anti recovery for CDD systems entirely, while claiming to protect them. Often there's the sort of ableist rhetoric that's all about "if you're not suffering, you're not disordered and therefore mocking us or fake".. Which is ridiculous to say the least!

We've seen claims of:

Systems are fake if they're happy they're a system, because if you're happy you're a system then you can't have been traumatised enough to get there.

Systems are fake if they love their headmates in any way, because plurality is a disorder.

Systems are fake if they post "too much" about being happy online, because being plural is a disorder and therefore suffering.

Systems are fake if they never show signs of suffering online.

Systems are fake if they're open about being a system IRL or sometimes at all, because it's a deeply shameful thing.

Systems are fake if they have less amnesia than full-on blackout amnesia, because it's in the DSM.

Systems are fake if they don't dissociate much, because it's in the name of the disorder and the DSM.

And we're here to say that's all plainly incorrect at best. It's also incredibly ableist, anti-recovery and downright harmful to CDD systems who learn they have this disorder, go online for support, and just see discourse and people getting fakeclaimed if they don't show of how much they're suffering online.

Systems can be happy that they're plural. Even if it came from trauma. Why? Well you can be happy that you're any way you are, regardless of how you got there, obviously. But there's also a crucial point here that CDDs and headmates often develop to protect people from trauma. Of course some systems would be glad that they're plural, in a lot of cases it's what literally saved their lives. This goes for the "systems can't love their headmates" thing too--plenty of systems are full of love for their headmates! Not only because they were there for them when it was needed, but because these are--depending on your view--entire people you live with, or parts of yourself. Why are you implying you have to hate that so viscerally to be real?

It's also a pretty well known thing that people tend to post their happier moments online, leading to this perception that they don't suffer. One, because that's how a lot of people work--their personal pages are public after all, and they don't want to be seen as constistently struggling. Two, it's downright dangerous to post in so much detail about your triggers, your trauma and abuse you're currently facing on the internet--even ignoring the fact that you need to be wary of your digital footprint, people can read these posts and use information against you. It's a choice many people make to not hand random people ammo on a silver plate.

Claiming that systems are fake if they're open about being plural in any space is simply ablesim. We've seen this take quite a few times, actually, and it never fails to be some of the most ridiculous ableism we've seen--it comes with a puritan "sweep it under the rug" mindset and the expectation that systems are ashamed of their plurality by default, or that it's simply too dangerous to share. While for a lot of people it is very dangerous to talk about their system so they simply keep that information to themselves, claiming every system should hide it for their entire lives and not expect to be received with kindness, compassion or accommodation is horrible.

As for the amnesia and dissociation... Therapy can help with these! You can actively go to therapy and get strategies to deal with the symptoms that come with a CDD without even going down the final fusion route! You can get it to a point where you have communication with your headmates, where you can switch on command, where you don't dissociate much at all.... You can work toward these goals with the right tools! Why does a system like us who's worked through years of therapy and years of working with ourselves within our own system suddenly get called fake once we start healing?

CDD systems should not have to fit what YOU think a true system should look like. They shouldn't have to suffer on show for you to believe them. They shouldn't have to hide all of themselves away in shame and never have their true selves known. They shouldn't have to pretend they're not recovering to be treated as real. They shouldn't have to feel like they'll be persecuted for simply being happy with who they are as people, or happy with how far they've come.

"Being a system isn't all fun and games" and I'm sure it's not for plenty of people. But do you think it's ok when a CDD system says they love themselves and think their system is fun? Or do you group them in with the endogenics who are "mocking [your] trauma"? Do you really care about people with CDDs at all in that case?

You can say "anti endos aren't ableist because endogenic plurality isn't a disorder" all you like--you're wrong about endogenics not being able to have CDDs by the way, but that's another post--but when you display so much ableist rhetoric toward your fellow CDD systems, I don't know how anyone can see you as "protecting" those with the disorders at all. You can't hide your hatred behind the guise of "protection" when you're harming your own community. You're not protecting us from anyone, you're trying to make us fit into a box full of spikes. It was never about protecting trauma survivors, it was about your personal hatred for others. We shouldn't have to suffer for you.

[drag-me-kicking-and-screaming]

Normalize not having to pick a fucking side in syscourse. Normalize being able to exist on the internet as a system or with a CDD without having to constantly answer questions and take stances on syscourse. There is more to being a system than syscourse. You don't have to pick a side and you can block anyone who makes you. You don't have to give a shit about whether or not you can be a system without trauma, you can just exist

DO NOT TAG WITH SYSCOURSE TAGS (eg. anti endo, pro endo, etc)

[starstruck-sillies]

Keep seeing posts of pro-endos who used to be anti-endo talking about "Ugh, anti-endo spaces are so toxic" which is not necessarily bad, there are bad anti-endo spaces out there and people are allowed to vent about how those spaces hurt them

I do have a problem when they use that as an excuse to call us all toxic and cruel. I've seen many saying things like "Anti endos are so horrible, I'm so glad I'm not one of those monsters anymore"

You need to understand we aren't the monsters you make us out to be. We're traumatized people, trying our hardest to survive with something debilitating, who can't help but see endos as mocking, whether they truly are or not. We can't help but see endos as invading our spaces.

We didn't get to have safe spaces most of the time. We didn't get to be around people who cared about us and understood us. Even those of us that did have a safe space had it poisoned by trauma elsewhere. We spent our childhoods afraid, isolated, and so agonizingly alone, feeling like we were better off dead, that we were freaks, that we were the only ones in the world going through this. This community we made for ourselves was one we had to fight through years of hell to get.

So when random people come over trying to insist that they're "just like us" and demanding to be let in, despite having only one or two things in common that we couldn't even trust they truly had, of course we'll be fucking defensive. In our eyes, you're trying to take the safe spaces we fought tooth and nail for away from us, whether you truly are or not. In our eyes you're people who know nothing about us or what we went through, and continue to go through, trying to barge into our havens and bloat it with bullshit, whether that's what you're trying to do or not.

We've been hurt so many times, by so many people, for so long. Why the fuck would we take a chance on people that are so suspect? You claim to have alters just like us, yet without any of the other symptoms of our disorders. You claim to be systems, yet without being caused by the immense trauma we had to suffer through. Hell, some of you claim that you made your alters for fun, just because you can.

Of course we're wary and defensive. We don't want to even risk losing the spaces we worked so damn hard to get.

If you've had a bad experience with anti-endo spaces, and are pro-endo now because of it, that's fine by me and I understand completely. But that doesn't make us all villians. That doesn't make us all evil monsters.

And besides, many of us have been hurt by pro-endo/mixed origin spaces too. We've seen people have horrible experiences with them. (Let's not forget endos started as natural multiples, who were notoriously shitty, cruel, and discriminatory toward any and all traumagens, and that a lot of that same rhetoric is still rampant in the community, AND that the community at large has basically just decided to pretend that never happened.

-Kaz

[ratinacoat]

I just saw a fakedisordercringe post full of people calling systems with hypersexual littles "pedophiles" and "age players" for it and I'm perplexed

First of all, littles are not actually children. Would you call an adult alter in a minor systems body an adult? I'd sure hope not. Alter age doesn't come before physical age. An adult in a minor system cannot do adult things, and a little in an adult system can do adult things. Second, hypersexuality isn't willingly being really sexual, it's a common trauma response, and it doesn't wait till you're 18 to kick in. They downvoted someone who said this?? Obviously a minor shouldn't share if they're hypersexual for safety reasons, but that wasn't even brought up in the post. It was just about hypersexuality in systems, and littles being included in that

Let's not call trauma survivors pedophiles for having a normal trauma response, yeah?? We're shaming people for normal things now?? Jfc

[ecos-syscourse]

*angrily* no matter what you did in your past, YOU STILL DESERVE RECOVERY. You deserve help. You deserve happiness.

you should apologize, and they don't have to forgive you, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't forgive yourself.

We say this in the "please care about your mental health" way.

harming others does not make you a terrible, irredeemable person. it makes you a person who needs help. people who do harm to others need help.

[qtallulah]

having “syskids and littles are not allowed to talk in this server / are ONLY allowed to talk in the littles-only chat where they can’t swear or engage in any topic more adult than my little pony” as your server rules is weird as hell!

you dont say “traumaholders aren’t allowed” or “persecutors aren’t allowed.” its *only* ever with littles!

i am SO tired of constantly having to defend my existence to random people on the internet. i, for example, am *the host* of my system. i front 80% of the time. are you saying im not allowed to talk in your server 80% of the time?

its ableism, imo! i am tired of being infantilized every time i bring up my age as an alter!! i will simply lie to you!

[w31rdm4g3dd0n]

I swear if I see an anti-endo say endogenic systems are claiming a trauma disorder when they're not, I'm going to scream. Like, yes, some endogenic systems do, but that's because they also have trauma?? Nobody is claiming you can have a trauma-based disorder without trauma, they're claiming plurality without a disorder.

I'll always say this:

Every disorder has a non-disordered counterpart. If it doesn't cause distress or affect at least one major area in functioning, it's not a disorder. This includes stuff like DID. Plurality is not a disorder, but DID is.

-Vito

[the-constellation-archive]

Tw // anti endo

Deleted what Eve wrote because it wasn't the nicest. -🖥

This person was condescending towards us, and is anti-endo in general.

For any endos or pro-endos, feel free to block this person. @/deitiesinpurgatory

[comraderue]

This might be one of the only times I ever post sycourse, but I need you to love systems more than you hate endos/anti-endos

[formidablefangs]

Would very much appreciate it if pro endos stopped posting in syspunk tags as it's an anti endo space. Keep your pluralpunk and what have you but syspunk is specifically for us.

Many have said it we'll keep saying it until you listen.

Keep to your own damn community.

[kaboom--bitch]

That previos post being said, headmates who are a part of a minority (gender, sexuality, romantic orientation, neurodivergent, disability, whatever else) that the body isn't a part of are and should be allowed to call people out when they're being assholes to them. Discrimination is discrimination, full fucking stop.

A headmate holding symptoms of a disorder doesn't have to shut up and take it when they're told their struggles mean nothing because they're a headmate. A headmate who is trans in a cis body doesn't have to step aside when presented with transphobia. A headmate doesn't have to stop using a cane when they front for their individual disability/symptoms just because other people think they're being ableist for needing it.

Headmates are people capable of their own lived experiences, and sure, it's complicated! There might be differences between people with that identity bodily vs a headmate and those can be discussed! But there's still plenty of room for discussion about the real struggles headmates of minority communites face. Headmates shouldn't be shoved aside. It's dehumanising and honestly just showing your own ableism if you act like headmates have to stand to the side and not talk about their experiences.

[god-of-knk]

Why is the OSDDID community having such a big fuckin' whoop about parts vs. person language. That is the dumbest fight to have. It's weird and creepy to care so much about how someone else refers to their own system. Why is that apparently so hard to understand.

[drag-me-kicking-and-screaming]

clears throat ahem. ahem ahem. IF YOU ARE ANTI ENDO. STOP. FUCKING. USING. THE. TERM. ALTERHUMAN. AND. ALTERHUMAN. TAGS.

THIS IS /SRS.

Pulls down whiteboard with red strings and frantic push pinned images. Alterhuman was coined with endogenic systems in mind. ALL origins of plurality are included in the definition of Alterhuman (By this I mean nonhuman alters being allowed to consider themselves alterhuman if they wish) so if you're going to be an ALTERHUMAN and be VICIOUSLY anti-endo ESPECIALLY when you're a singlet than stop. fucking using the term. it wasn't made for you hateful bigots. There are other terms for you. Stop bullying endogenic systems who are using terms made for them.

Source (this is the coining post for the term alterhuman. It specifically mentions plural, median, and walk in identities; if you don't believe me, here's a link to the coiner of alterhuman being explicitly pro endo; and here's a link to the coiner saying this account belongs to them.)

[starstruck-sillies]

SOOO turns out there's apparently a way less harmful alternative to endos: Polymind! They have their own terms and general language, AND they make sure to distance themselves from the system community and make it very clear that they aren't systems, but their own thing!! It's super super cool, 1000% we support this!!!

This is legit soso cool YIPPEEEE

NOTE: Polyminds are NOT endos, or systems at all, they're a separate thing. They may seem similar, and can have some similarities, but they are still very much different!!

-Milkyway