#why do i only talk about queerbaiting

[atomicradiogirl]

house and wilson in house md is the opposite of queerbaiting. they are the most canon tragic friends to lovers situationship in fiction history they literally move in together, EVERYONE thinks they’re a couple, house literally fakes his own death just so he can be alone with wilson in his last few months of life, the show ends with them riding off into the sunset together. they literally love each other. the only thing missing is they don’t kiss (on screen). dear GOD. and this show is from 2004. house and wilson invented 90% of modern day queer ship dynamics. just saying.

[voguewoozi]

can't believe people are still out here accusing real ass people of queerbaiting. at this point just admit you like forcing people to come out before they're ready because that's what the result of this continues to be. coming out to anyone isn't an obligation for any queer person and people shouldn't have to alter their behavior or personality or presentation just because you personally think they're cishet. that is literally your own personal problem to work on. keep it to yourself

[the-knife-consumer]

"Yona was just added bc Nintendo wants people to stop shipping sidlink!" Literally what the hell are you talking about

[brokenhardies]

tbh as a six fan i feel so bad for thirteen fans

bc there are a lot of thirteen fans who are willing to defend shitty writing and poor decisions bc thirteen's their favourite doctor and there's no other way to say she's their favourite bc thirteen has only been off the air for 2 years at this point. thirteen also has the bonus problem of being the first female doctor which means a lot of her criticism is clouded by misogyny and other icky incel alt right shit

meanwhile with six, a lot of his problems had the benefit of the wilderness years, big finish, the expanded universe, and even people looking back at his doctor and realising that there was some good in his episodes. a lot of his fans didnt become his fans until recently and even most of his haters are quite clear that they hate the writing decisions and not the actor himself

like until jodie gets some good material - maybe big finish? theyre doing fugitive doctor and dhawan master stuff that might improve the problems with those - a lot of thirteen fans are going to be clutching at straws and trying to figure out why they like her and how to say so in a way that won't upset the predominantly male fandom, as well as won't disagree with common and very bloody obvious criticisms of chibnalls era

[anchorandrope]

the fact that i was reading something in pinknews about elton john's closeting and the advertising was louis' video denying larry...... the irony (you can see in the pic the "pinknews" watermark plss)

[lilyginnyblackv2]

Now that Buddy Daddies is finished, I’m gonna say it: SPOILERS!

Buddy Daddies really is for the aces, aros, queerplatonic partners, and platonic life partners out there. 

I know, 100%  that there are going to be some people out there that are going to say, “See! It really was just queerbait all along” or some who are going to bemoan the fact that there were no declarations of romantic love or kiss or whatever. I’m sure this part right here:

Miri: “Didn’t you slip out yesterday to go drinking with a girl again?” 

Caused some frowns and I do get it. Because of this, the queerbait and Kazuki and Rei are just friends dialogue will continue and follow the series around. But, this episode has made it clear that Kazuki and Rei love not only Miri, but each other as well.

They are a work partners (相棒 - aibou)

They are partners raising a child together. (相方 - aikata).

They’ve moved (I’m pretty sure their diner is in Okinawa for reasons I’ll get to in another post), they’ve opened a business together, one which has a part of Kazuki’s last name in it (来栖 - Kurusu is his last name, the 栖 (su) part of his name means “nest.”), and Rei’s words to his father: Miri, Kazuki, and I share a bond stronger than blood. 

They are a family. They love each other.

Of course, friends can be a part of a family. Friends can love each other, but there are also reasons why people who are in situations like co-parenting, queerplatonic relationships, platonic life partnerships, and etc. don’t refer to their bonds as friendships and the people they are co-parenting or in a partnership with as their friends, but as words that give some space for those grey areas in-between.

Friendships are strong, deep, and beautiful. Platonic love is love and is powerful.

But, there are definitely still different sets of expectations and boundaries that come with friendships vs. other relationship dynamics. 

Kazuki and Rei’s situation falls outside of the usual friendship expectations and boundaries and sits somewhere between that, family and partnership.

I know this topic has been talked to death about. But, I felt like I needed to write about and address it one final time since Buddy Daddies has come to an end (though, who knows about a potential Daughter Daddies!) Especially after Miri’s line to Kazuki. (I feel I could also go into open relationship dynamics, polyamorous relationships, and etc. but that feels like it would be derailing). 

Basically, I just wanted to get one final post out on this. I was very pleased with this ending episode. It made my heart so happy and warm, and I know I’ve said it before, but this series really speaks to me as someone who is aroace. Aroace characters and our relationship dynamics have basically no rep, so even if this series wasn’t intended to be written with a queerplatonic relationship dynamic in mind, they ended up writing a beautiful depiction of one that makes me and what I would want from a relationship of some kind, finally feel seen.

[letmetellyouaboutmyfeels]

why are people so against oliver and ryan talking about buddie, don't we want this, don't we want buddie to be canon? i'm sorry are we rooting for buck to end up with tommy or something, like I don't understand why so many people are saying stop asking them about buddie?

If we want Buddie then shouldn't we be asking buddie questions? I mean I'm so sorry but I'm just very confused, shouldn't we be happy that buddie is getting this much press and love? Why are we against it?

Okay, this is going to be a long one.

There are a few reasons why people are concerned about publications teasing Buddie happening and using the ship name and asking Oliver and Ryan about the ship. I'll try to be as concise as possible.

I would like to note, I'm not going to answer a bunch of questions about this. Other people have answered similar questions plenty of times, if you take a bit to look around 911blr. I'm sure @catdadeddie has gone into this a few times.

However, I understand that we are getting a lot of new fans this season, and so I want to try and explain comprehensively for those who haven't been around. I hope this covers everything.

Whenever a ship is between two people of the same gender as opposed to two people of the opposite gender (I know, I know, but we can't get into the gender spectrum right now just play along with me), everyone involved has to be very, very careful when it comes to talking about that ship ahead of said ship going canon.

It is very easy to slip into something called "queerbaiting." I'm assuming that you and most people online and in fandom by now have heard of this term but just in case: queerbaiting is when a show acts like a queer ship might happen in marketing and promotion in order to draw in a queer audience.

Historically, this was done by having a main character played by a woman have a romantic thing with another woman (flirting, even kissing!) who was a guest star, hinting at the main character's bisexuality/queerness, only for that guest star to never come back and for the show to act like it had never happened. This was done during something called, IIRC, "sweeps week" which was basically an important week for TV viewer ratings in the 90s. It was a way to boost your numbers by drawing in queer viewers with the promise of actual queer rep that then wasn't realized. It's a marketing tactic.

Nowadays the nature of queerbaiting has changed a bit. It's an overused term that frankly people love to (mis)use whenever a ship of theirs doesn't go canon and a show dares to do things like having two people (like say Ryan and Oliver) who play the two halves of the ship do an interview together (whether you ship Buddie or not, they are close friends, and it makes sense that they'd do a few interviews together - that is not queerbaiting). A good example of real queerbaiting is Rizzoli & Isles which, among other things, took out billboards and magazine spreads showing the characters (two women) in suggestively sexual and romantic positions and with slogans hinting that the two had more than just friendship together, then never, ever delivered on it and in fact laughed at the idea of the characters being gay for each other.

(I WAS THERE, GANDALF!!!)

Because of this unfortunate treatment of queer audiences and the (historic) dearth of actual queer characters and queer ships going canon (it's getting better but still), networks, showrunners, and so on have to be very careful when, say, they want to make a queer ship canon.

Look at how ABC handled Chenford, a popular ship in their show The Rookie. Chenford was not a planned ship - the fans adored the chemistry between the two characters (Lucy Chen and Tim Bradford), the writers liked the idea and decided to lean into it, ABC gave the go-ahead, and the ship officially got together and went canon last season. ABC heavily promoted Chenford and the ship and made a lot of jokes about it in the last couple of seasons leading into the ship going canon, using the ship heavily in their marketing.

ABC cannot necessarily do that with Buddie, because even if Buddie is going canon, until that happens, they could get accused of queerbaiting. There's a much bigger minefield to navigate because of this historic misuse of queer audiences and queer characters.

So whenever journalists and publications use a popular non-canonical queer ship name for clicks and fandom interest, if that ship doesn't immediately go canon or if the network/showrunner/etc doesn't say "yeah they're totally gonna kiss! with tongue!" people accuse the show of queerbaiting. This is unfair to the show for two reasons: one, the network is not going to bother sending "shut the fuck up" letters to every single damn publication out there for using a ship name in their headline and talking about a ship - they'll be accused of homophobia and it draws even MORE attention to the issue re: the Barbra Streisand effect (look it up); and two, the people involved in the show are NOT going to spoil the anticipation and surprise by admitting ANY ship is going to go canon before it does.

This is simple marketing - the movie trailer doesn't (or shouldn't, anyway) show you the ending of the movie or everything that happens in it. TV shows want you to tune in every week and speculate and guess. They're not gonna spoil a ship ahead of time.

This means that when journalists and articles pull this shit, they're putting the showrunner, the writers, the actors doing interviews, and the network in a bad situation that they can't really do anything about. Not without causing more mess.

So that's reason number one why a lot of us are annoyed: by yelling about Buddie, these articles and journalists are setting the cast and crew we love up to get yelled at for queerbaiting if Buddie doesn't immediately happen, and there's nothing the cast and crew can do about it, and it's all so the journalists and articles can use us, the fandom, for clicks. So we're also kinda getting used here, and it doesn't feel great.

The second reason we're annoyed about Buddie questions is that it's being asked of the actors who, nine times out of ten, have ZERO CONTROL OVER THE STORYLINES.

Now, there are exceptions. Jennifer Love Hewitt, who plays Maddie, has pushed back on a couple storylines that were given to her and has therefore had a strong hand in shaping Maddie's character. One infamous (in a positive way) example is that Maddie and Eddie were supposed to be an endgame couple. JLH, however, immediately loved the character of Chimney and clicked with Chim's actor Kenneth Choi, so she asked if Maddie could get with Chim instead, feeling he'd be a better fit for her character. And lo, both the beautiful ship Madney and the insanity that is Buddie shipping was born because Buck ended up stepping into that co-parenting-Chris role that Maddie obviously would've originally filled.

However, it should be noted that JLH was an established star before coming onto 9-1-1, and her husband is friends with Tim the showrunner. I would argue that the only other two actors who have any power on their storylines are Peter and Angela, the latter because she can do whatever she wants forever, and the former because (like Angela) he is an executive producer on the show.

It's not that actors never ever get to have a say ever, but the writers, showrunner, and network have much more power. They create the storylines, they make the decisions. Not actors. So when the actors are repeatedly asked about a ship, they're put in an awkward position where they might not even know the full storyline for their character that season and now they need to answer in a way that doesn't reveal any information they do know, but also doesn't insult shippers or dash their hopes. This is a double minefield for queer ships because, again: historic insults to queer fans and characters, nobody wants to be offensive.

The third reason is that this fandom has, historically, treated Tim, Oliver, and others like absolute dogshit over Buddie not going canon. Oliver's left Twitter and taken big social media breaks because of how he was yelled at online. It's not cool, guys. Vent all you want but directing it at the cast and crew isn't okay and maybe if it was just you talking sternly that would be fine (maybe) but when it's dozens of people? It's bullying. Full stop.

Every single time Buddie has not gone canon instantly, the actors and others have gotten verbally abused on social media. Every time the actors have been asked about Buddie and not said "ohmygod yes I want it to happen so bad" (they are not allowed to say this because it might create false hope because again: historical queerbaiting) they've gotten yelled at. We are tired of the actors getting yelled at over something over which they have no control.

The fourth reason is that Oliver, especially, has gotten asked about Buddie a LOT. A lot. The poor man is very tired. He's been cornered about Buddie and asked about it aggressively by certain journalists (one journalist, Max Gao, actually tried to corner Gavin who plays Chris over Buddie - this was a few years ago so Gavin was even younger than he is now and I personally think that is an incredibly unfairly loaded question to give to a child).

If I may dive into speculation for a moment, given how the actors have been SO gleeful about the move to ABC, the fact that they've admitted ABC is letting them do storylines and little moments that FOX wouldn't, and a few other things I won't get into here because this damn thing is long enough already... I suspect FOX would not let Buddie happen. If this is the case, then actors being asked about Buddie is even more loaded because they are being asked questions about it and they can't say "yeah we want to but the network won't let us." THEY WILL GET FIRED FOR THIS.

But, whether or not my speculation is true, the fact remains that when you are repeatedly, over and over, aggressively asked if this fan ship is going to happen or not, you get tired. There's only so many times that someone can give a diplomatic answer before you just want to snap "stop fucking asking me!" Journalists love to take advantage of fandom and social media chatter to get attention for their articles so asking over and over again about Buddie isn't because they genuinely care or think it'll happen, it's to get shippers reading their article, and so bombarding the actors and writers with this question when they've already kinda said their peace a lot about it is frustrating. Just! Leave them alone!

And AGAIN: if this was a M/F ship there could maybe be room for teasing the will-they-won't-they but because of historically bad treatment of queer characters and fans, THEY CANNOT DO THAT. So the only option open to them is to KEEP THEIR MOUTHS SHUT. And keeping one's mouth shut and threading that diplomatic needle for years is EXHAUSTING.

We do want Buddie to be canon, nonny, and in my opinion we are going to get it. All this recent PR supports that, (again: in my opinion).

However, we have seen Oliver get bombarded with what he thinks about Buddie until the cows come home, and he deserves a break. There's nothing new he can say, there's nothing new he's allowed to say. We have seen other parts of the fandom scream that we're being queerbaited because Buddie didn't instantly go canon, without any consideration for the fact that a) queerbaiting is a marketing tactic and b) there might be other factors at play preventing it going canon. We have seen journalists take advantage of us, the shippers, in order to get attention, and we have seen them create an awkward and embarrassing atmosphere in interviews by repeatedly asking about the ship. We have seen shippers make us look bad by hounding the cast and crew on social media about Buddie, treating every woman actress who plays a Buck/Eddie love interest like shit (yes, I know about Edy, but she could be a saint and parts of the fandom would still go onto Instagram to call her names), and generally being absolute pills that would tempt any showrunner, actor, or writer to say "y'know what fuck 'em let's not make Buddie canon I'm not rewarding this shitty behavior."

"If we want Buddie then shouldn't we be asking Buddie questions?" No. Not like journalists and fans have been. It's something to bring up - in my opinion - sparingly and with an awareness of how queer storylines and ships and fandom have been mocked, ignored, baited, and so on over the years. They don't ask about Buddie because they give a shit. They ask because they want our clicks for their ad revenue and they want our retweets and likes and comments. And it's certainly not something to bombard the actors with on social media and bitch at them if it doesn't happen. It just makes the rest of fandom look bad and makes us look like children.

Additionally: These are not new questions! They're not only asking these questions now that it looks like Buddie will go canon, with serious hope and consideration based on the marketing and storylines. They've been asking this since season fucking two, when Buddie was clearly not planned, just to get fangirl (gn) clicks. They wanted to get attention and teehee over how Oliver/Ryan/whoever reacted to people thinking Buck and Eddie should touch dicks. 'Kay?

We know the pattern. So when every piece of media is screaming BUDDIE!!! we are not seeing it as "OMG could we go canon?" We see it as another round of being taken advantage of for article attention, another round of parts of the fandom being bullies and yelling about being baited, and another round of the actors being backed into uncomfortable corners.

That's why we're concerned, worried, and annoyed.

*collapses* I hope this covered everything and explained it all.

[buckttommy]

i don't think i really understand pr and what actors should and shouldn't say. why is what oliver's saying so wild?

Hi, it's okay. I'll walk you through it. The tl;dr version is written in bold.

So. PR, or, Public Relations, is the dynamic between the general public (us) and any entity that has interests to protect (in this case, that would be the network + 911). PR teams are designed to ensure the relationship between the public and [their entity] is as harmonious as possible. Happy relationship, happy consumer, happy company.

Because keeping the peace is the intention of good pr, pleasant ambiguity is the name of the game. People can speculate, and people can guess, but no one should ever be able to look back at your words and claim that you've given a definitive answer on anything—good or bad—because definitive statements can harm the entity's bottom line, whatever that may be.

Oliver is very good at keeping the peace between the network and the public. We know this because we have seen evidence supporting this fact for years. He always says a little bit of what everyone wants to hear—he'll keep things vague (plausible deniability) for the sake of the network, while also giving nods of support and encouragement to the fandom without promising anything. You know how he's talked about being cautious and aware of what he's saying in interviews because he knows the impact it could have? Okay, well, aside from wanting to avoid "queerbaiting" allegations, this is part of the reason. PR is a very delicate game and he plays it very well.

Or at least he did.

Right now, Oliver is using binoculars to identify the line, making sure the line is exactly where he left it, and then taking a giant wrecking ball to it. Because now, Oliver is saying things that should absolutely not be said in interviews, or to anyone in the general public, at all. Now, he's elevating the conversation from pure speculation, to actively confirming and placing the blame at people's feet for things that have gone on behind the scenes.

Saying that Buck's Queer storyline was floated years ago? Huge no-no. Why? You were on tumblr yesterday. You can see why. People were angry, and people were hurt, but most importantly, people started to ask questions. We started to look at past arcs, past moments in Buck and in Buck and Eddie's relationship (because, whether you like it or not, Buck's queerness is and always has been tangentially linked to the existence of Buddie) to try and pinpoint when/how his queer arc could have launched. Now. Most of us have been here for years, so we can easily look back at the show and see where it's pretty damn obvious how Buck's Queer arc could have launched, depending on the arc(s), the characters at the time, things that were going on outside of the show (re: Oliver liking Buddie edits before/after the shooting), etc.

But we're not the only ones who are reading these interviews. Other people—casual fans, new fans, people who don't give a damn at all and are just clicking around on the internet—are going to look at these interviews, they're going to look at the things Oliver is saying, and they're going to have the same questions that we had. When could this have happened? And, more importantly, why didn't it? To keep it simple: everyone is going to start looking a little closer at the man behind the curtain, and the network does not want that.

Now, sure, it could be argued that, "hey, 911 isn't with FOX anymore, so maybe Oliver is allowed to say these things." But that's not really how it works. Sure, he might have a bit more leeway (as in, a microscopic, so-small-it-might-as-well-be-insignificant amount of leeway) to say whatever it is he wants, but this isn't the first time a major transfer/acquisition has occurred, and there are safeguards in place (such as NDA's—Non-Disclosure Agreements—which often do not expire for years post-acquisition, depending on the entity they're protecting) to prevent him from harming FOX's bottom line. So, that reasoning rings hollow. Especially because, now, it's not just FOX he's pulling into the fray either.

In the article that dropped today, he openly acknowledges this thing between Buck and Eddie in Season 7. And at this point, we're well into ABC's era. So the fact that he's saying, "I went to Tim and asked if there's something I can play with when Eddie says he's going on a date"—that's odd behavior from him. Not necessarily bad, just odd. And after years of toeing the line, the question that has to be asked now is why? And, more importantly, why now?

Does this mean that Buddie is going canon? Not necessarily (and, before anyone freaks out, I'm not saying it's not going canon either; I'm just saying this isn't an indication). But The Buddie Problem, at least, in the way Oliver is addressing it, is something the Higher Ups would want to keep quiet for as long as possible, for whatever reason. Maybe because they intend to go forward with it. Maybe because they don't. But the fact that he's cracking the shades open and letting light through is deeply fascinating.

But, despite all this, it's important, also, to realize that, even with demolishing the good PR line he's always walked so carefully, Oliver still isn't promising us anything. He's still treading carefully regarding how we, Buddie shippers, will interpret his words. He's not claiming Buddie canon is a go and it'd be remiss to think that's the implication here when it's not. He's not that stupid, and he's not that cruel. But all of it is very curious.

So that's why a lot of us are looking at each other, and then looking at Oliver, wondering what the hell he's doing. Because he knows better, and we know he knows better. We know he's very good at playing this delicate game but right now, he's making moves that are... intriguing... to say the least. And it's not just him, even though he's the main culprit. 9-1-1's move to ABC—and this entire press junket since 7x4—has been rife with sensitive information being released to the public, starting with Lou's untrained self revealing that it was supposed to be Eddie and Tommy that were going to get together, and circling back around to... literally every single word Oliver has uttered in the past three weeks.

So. It's odd! As you can see. So I'm sitting back, and I'm waiting and seeing because something is happening behind the scenes, and I don't know what it is (and I don't even think it's bad!) but it is still very much happening. So.

[thatlgbtqfandom]

I've watched a few interviews with the cast and crew of Good Omens and can I just say that, as someone who was a BBC's Sherlock fan back when it was still airing, it makes me so incredibly happy to finally have a show that not only doesn't queerbait (yes, the bar is in hell), but where the actors seem genuinely happy with and open about the queer direction the show is going in, and where they don't shame the fans for also being happy about this development. I just watched an interview with Michael Sheen where he, almost unprompted, brought up fanfiction and said that he thinks that it's a shame that people used to be weird about fanfiction because he thinks it's amazing and shows a love for the show. And... as someone who kind of still gets upset whenever I'm reminded of certain interviews and panels with the cast and crew of Sherlock (if you were in the fandom I'm sure you know which ones I'm talking about), this unabashed celebration of queer joy from the cast and crew of a big show like this is just something I could never have imagined as a young, queer fan!

I get that there are different circumstances, Sherlock fans could definitely be a lot sometimes, and maybe it's cruel of me to compare shows like this. But I genuinely believe that Sherlock did some actual damage to my (and many others') trust in media and in creators. It's one of the main reasons I absolutely didn't believe Our Flag Means Death would do what it did even when I was seeing it play out before my very eyes. It's why I didn't believe Crowley and Aziraphale would ever even come close to actually expressing their feelings for one another despite all of the queer subtext in season 1 and despite the cast and crew calling it a love story. Maybe all of this even added to my suspicions that they weren't going to follow through because we've all been let down time and time again.

And I'm not trying to pin the fault of queerbaiting solely on Sherlock and the team behind it - I am aware that there were many other big shows and movies that also queerbaited at the time. But out of all of those shows, I mainly watched Sherlock and it, along with the interviews with the cast and crew, were my main points of reference for what to expect regarding queer representation in (especially mainstream) media at the time. Which is why I'm mainly using Sherlock as an example of this unfortunate trend.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that with all of these shows now subverting our very, very low expectations for what kind of space queer characters and queer stories are allowed to occupy in (especially mainstream) media, I feel like my teenage self is starting to heal just a bit. But, both back then and in hindsight, I'm also completely baffled that a few shows in the late 2000s and early 2010s were able to get away with the shit they were pulling and completely ruin young, queer fans' trust in both creators and in their own media literacy.

[myimaginarywonderland]

I can only imagine how fucking weird explaining Tatort and then future Tatort Saarbrücken will sound to anyone Non-German like "Okay so we have this TV Show that has been running for like millions of years. No, it's not all the same team. No, there's different versions for different cities and even in those the team changes overtime. Saarbrücken? Yeah no, one of the smallest cities. Saarland? People really don't talk about it. Why is it popular? They have Gay Drama? No, not just the dudes. Are we being queerbaited? Well, it's probably by one of the most Conservative networks that is mostly aimed at 50+ year olds so...

Have often do we get episodes? Oh, like once a year.

No, actually, it's one episode per year. "

[tobethemselves]

People are commenting on how Harry’s whole persona and style feel extremely performative. Since his vogue cover he has not worn a dress either, so it seems very much like an act he put on to make more money, while never actually being interested in fashion like that. Also he’s never actually served any looks or dated a man so that could also be why ppl think he’s straight lol.

So I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt anon because english is not my first language but for me it sounds like you’re one of those people you’re talking about… Anyhow

Yes I saw the accusations about him queerbaiting. And to be honest with you I really really hate it. Not only because of Harry but also because of the massage that sends to all those baby queers who now think they have to act, dress or look a certain way to call themselves queer. Again:

The word queerbaiting came from fictional characters who often were invented from straight people who used to tease the queerness of said character as a marketing strategy to attract a wider audience for their show or movie even though in the end nothing queer ever happened to not make the homophobic part of the audience mad.

I don’t know how often it has to be said until it reaches every single brain out there but here we go again

A real person can’t queerbait.

Clothes don’t have a gender and don’t have a sexuality, there is no right way to look queer or straight. And there is no right or wrong way to dress queer.

Apart from that it’s totally normal to dress differently while being on stage then when you’re travelling/ at home/ in your comfort clothes. That fact has nothing to do with Harry’s interests in fashion. For real do you expect him to go on a train ride in one of his stage outfits? Not very comfy and not really clever if he doesn’t want to attract a bunch of fans.

Also, how do you know he never wore a dress since?

Everyone is so fast to judge as soon as it’s a celebrity often forgetting that they are humans too just like me and you. And humans have layers. Thousands of them. There is no way to know someone’s sexuality based on a different hairstyle and a few pictures.

And about your last point. Well you wrote an anonymous massage to a larry blog. So I think my opinion about if he ever dated men or not is pretty clear.

[atomicradiogirl]

this is what it’s like to be queerbaited in real time

[thedvilsinthedetails]

Rosekiller band au microfic!!!

hey guys, I wrote the first microfic in the lil series I’m doing, you can find the original idea for it here

ik I’d said I’d wait but I’m impatient hahaha

(some of the ppl that asked to be tagged if i ever wrote it: @always-reading @blu3stars @chaoticgaywitch @1284646imjusthere @depressedtheatrekiddo @idk-what-to-put-here-123)

anyway just wrote this pretty quickly so it might have some mistakes n stuff sorry abt that I don’t do grammar or punctuation anyway here you go, enjoy:

(EDIT: link to part 2)

••• Pink lipstick stains, cigarette butts

I lie in bed, I hate my guts

A day in the dark 

A muddled afternoon, yeah

Barty pressed his cheek close to Evan as they sang into the same microphone. He could feel the buzz of the music through the vibration of the stage below him. 

Oh baby darling how I long 

To become your suicide blonde

He ran a hand through Evan’s platinum curls as he sung the line. Evan leaned into it, eyes meeting Barty’s, grinning as he sung. 

To lie beside my Romeo

Oh what a wicked way to go

Evan’s fingers moved deftly on the guitar, he lifted a hand, twirled the pick in his hand before resuming immediately, he didn’t take his eyes off Barty the entire song. 

•••

“Ah fucking hell look at the comments Bee.”

Evan was sat at the base of the sofa, scrolling through the comments on a video of their performance last night. He held the phone up to Barty on the sofa, who squinted before taking it and reading it out to the room.

“Skittlefiend57 says ‘omg Blarty and Evan! I’m so gone 4 them u guys’”

“Blarty?”

Regulus raised an eyebrow.

“We’ve been getting my name wrong all these years guys. Wow that’s a crazy thing to discover at 23.”

“Bad spelling aside, there’s way more. And it’s not all good stuff.”

Evan said and Barty looked back down at the comments. 

“Barty and Evan are queerbaiting, they act so gay but they’re not dating. It’s all clearly faked to get attention. Fucking pathetic. Why thank you peenisonapizza. Glad to see you know us personally and can therefore speak on our behalf.”

“Don’t know why they’re obsessed with accusing a band with two trans guys of queer baiting.”

Evan pinched his furrowed brow and shook his head in disbelief.

“They don’t even care about the fucking music, just us and whether we’re dating or not.”

Barty laid down on the sofa, dropping one arm around Evan and resting his chin on Evan’s shoulder.

“Hey cheer up Rosie. They care about the music. There’s a few assholes but that’s a given. If they weren’t talking about us acting gay they’d be talking about whether my tattoos are real or fake.”

“Or some conspiracy theory that Reggie’s not actually lactose intolerant.” 

Pandora chipped in.

“I’m not lactose intolerant!”

Regulus replied indignantly.

“Is that you talking or your obsession with chocolate?”

Dorcas rolled her eyes as she spoke. Regulus avoided her gaze as he mumbled out a half hearted response.

“Remus got me hooked on Tony’s chocolonely.”

While the rest of the group squabbled Evan leaned his head back against Barty’s shoulder, he pulled out his phone.

***

Evan.Rosier✔️

Hey everyone, I’ve noticed there’s a lot of speculation about me and @Barty.Grouch.JR and I wanted to say that it’s none of your business, you can think what you like but please don’t ask us or spam comment sections with theories. As always thank u so much for listening to our music, the skittles luv u x

***

Evan breathed in and passed the phone to Barty.

“You think this is good?”

Barty read it over and nodded.

“You’ve been really nice about it too.”

Evan huffed out a laugh.

“I was normal about, not my fault you would have said something like-“

“Roses are red, violets are blue, you are a cunt and I hate you @peenisonapizza.”

Barty took a small bow, flourishing his hand dramatically. Evan turned around and flicked him in the leg, which only succeeded in making him laugh. 

 “Ok I’ve posted it.”

Evan clicked post and watched as the ‘likes’ number quickly began to climb.

“Now I’m just not gonna read the comments on that post.”

Evan huffed out a laugh and Barty patted his shoulder.

“Good on you Rosie. Now who wants to watch a movie?”

Evan clambered onto the sofa next to Barty who leaned against him immediately, head resting on his shoulder.

“Rosie.”

Barty whispered.

“Yeah Bee?”

“Give me your phone. Look we both know it will bother you all evening not reading those comments if you have your phone on you. Just- out of sight out of mind, I’ll give it back to you once the movie is over but you deserve to have an evening off.”

Barty’s eyes were wide, expression genuine as he spoke. Evan hesitated then reached in his pocket for his phone.

“Don’t spam it with photos alright?”

A smirk spread on Barty’s face quickly, eyes sparkling.

“I make no promises Ev.”

Evan rolled his eyes but handed the phone over. 

The movie was something Pandora had picked, something from the late 80s, a strange mix of fantasy, reality and meta theatre that Evan actually didn’t hate.

Still he drifted to sleep at some point watching it, the stress of the day had clearly gotten to him and something about the way the top of Barty’s head made for a great pillow probably didn’t help.

Either way he woke up to the feeling of Barty shaking him.

“Come on sleeping beauty, let’s get you to a real bed. Here’s your phone back.”

Evan rubbed his eyes and got up, stumbling to his room as thanked Barty in a half asleep murmur.

He got to his room and turned on his phone, wincing at the glaring brightness, turning it down quickly. He opened his photos app, just as he’d suspected his camera roll was filled with new photos.

He began to scroll through them. There was one of his friends, all waving at the camera. A zoomed in shot of Inigo Montoya‘s face on the TV screen from a funny angle. Himself, looking dumb, sleeping with his mouth slightly open. He scrolled to the next picture and stopped. Barty with that cheeky grin of his, curled up against Evan, flipping off the camera. Eyes twinkling in that way that always made Evan feel a little warmer, a little brighter. He fell asleep again dreaming of a body pressed against his in a hug, the hum of a movie no longer playing, soft hair tickling his face and mischief painted in big brown eyes. 

For info about the position they’re sat in (it’s clear in my mind but I’m not sure how clear it is in the description), the song that they are playing and the movie they watch, look below the read more:

Position they are in before Evan gets on the sofa, red is Evan, green is Barty - yes Barty is uncomfortable, yes he would sit like that anyway bc Barty will do fucking contortion to be able to hug Evan argue with a wall

Don’t question the drawing skills, I can’t draw and did it in a moving vehicle

the song is EVOL by MARINA

the movie is the princess bride suggested by the lovely @lulublack90 who u shld defo check out bc she’s rlly amazing at writing

(Oh also Evan and Reggie are both trans in this)

[bobparkhurst]

a totally unbiased (no) and mostly serious (i guess) spoiler-free primer

I've seen a bunch of posts floating around encouraging people into the fandom, or HBO War people looking for a new fandom/show to sink their teeth into. Here's my effot to add to the propaganda, because I've been in this fandom since Nov '22, it's delightful here and I always love a new SASRH friend to chat to.

tl;dr: it's a lot of fun

premise & setting

SAS: Rogue Heroes is the story of the founding of the original* Special Air Service (SAS) of the British Army during WW2. It centres three of the initial founders, David Stirling, Blair 'Paddy' Mayne and Jock Lewes. Two of other men credited as founding the SAS, Bill Fraser and Georges Bergé also feature. Bill Stirling, David's older brother and integral to the founding of the SAS, will feature in series 2.

Series 1 is 6 episodes long, covering events from the North African campaign from May '41 through Jan '43. Series 2 has been filmed and will move the action to Europe.

Based largely on the book, SAS: Rogue Heroes by Ben Macintyre.

*it was disbanded in Oct '45, and reformed in '47, ultimately leading, through various machinations, to the modern day SAS.

historical accuracy

Somewhat more fast and loose with history than Band of Brothers, The Pacific or Masters of the Air, but not bad enough to send historians spiralling into deep despair, with one very important caveat: the depiction of Paddy Mayne. More on him and this in a moment. However, it has generally been well received. Damien Lewis (the author and historian, not the actor) said "...it's reasonably realistic. It tells a great yarn. I think they've used some artistic license, I can understand why they've done so to a certain extent... Generally they've got the equipment and the kit bang on, I think they had some very good advisers." (here)

There are some weird timeline issues, which I think is caused largely by odd pacing and editing. I'd not worry about this too much, otherwise you'll break your brain. Likewise, liberties have been taken with the geography, which I think is a bit more heinous, but ymmv.

characters: lads lads lads lads lads

after the first four, these are in no order of importance, before anyone gets on at me about their favourite. i also appreciate there are other characters but this bit was already getting really long.

david stirling (connor swindells) - the dreamer

Arrogant, manipulative, clever, charismatic bastard. David Stirling is fueled chiefly by daddy issues and an inferiority complex a mile wide. Connor Swindells walks a beautiful line between swagger and vulnerability. He does not let things like "common sense", "safety precautions" or "understanding the implications" get in the way of doing important things like flinging himself out of a plane in the middle of the desert or talking his way into army bases armed with nothing but crutches and chutzpah.

blair 'paddy' mayne (jack o'connell) - the madman

Paddy Mayne my BELOVED. Character of all time. He's a drinker, a fighter and abhors a bully. For most of the show, we see him at his most desperate and most angry and arguably most violent. HOWEVER, he's also a highly intelligent, sensitive, compassionate poet and voracious reader; if there's a bunch of poetry being quoted, it's probably Paddy doing it. He loves so very deeply. His depiction in the show is a bit of a bone of contention with family and historians - some people read him as being depicted as a violent thug only, and that's not what the real Blair Mayne was like. Which is simultaneously true and not true. Blair Mayne was an incredibly complicated man.

The other contentious-to-some point is that the show does deliberately suggest his queerness, something Jack O'Connell has talked about in interviews. Some people have taken issue with this. Either way, for those who saw the sand wrestling gifs and wanted to know if SASRH was just queerbaiting, the answer is no, actually. But don't expect anything explicit on this front.

Jack O'Connell looks like he's having a fucking fantastic time.

jock lewes (alfie allen) - the creator

In real life, Jock Lewes was nicknamed "The Wizard", how great is that? David, Paddy and David met in training and are referred to in show as "the Three Musketeers". He is basically the mediator between Paddy and David, which sounds dull, except Jock is also batshit and clever and scary. He makes all the lads do intense marches in the desert without water, but is never willing to ask someone to do what he wouldn't do. Trouble is, as mentions, he is batshit so his standards are VERY VERY HIGH. He also has a fiancee, Mirren, whomst he loves very much and their relationship is so tender and brings me to tears on the regular.

eve mansour (sofia boutella)

Eve works for French Military Intelligence and quietly drives a lot of action behind the scenes. She's a totally fictional invention for the show and I'd be madder about it if Sofia Boutella wasn't being gorgeous and smart all over the place. She is focused on the goal and is generally just. Queen.

dudley clarke (dominic west)

Not so much a member of the SAS as the guy who helps Stirling bring this plan to fruition. He's great fun, charming and affable, and just as dangerous as anyone else. Dudley Clarke doesn't get enough credit, I think.

mike sadler (tom glynn-carney)

Mike Sadler my OTHER beloved. I joke about Mike coming to fix all the stuff around my flat that doesn't work and it's because he's singlehandedly the most competent member of the entire SAS, I think. His introduction scene is the sexiest thing on the entire show. He only gets introduced in episode 3, but in my heart we have six seasons and a movie with him. He's a member of the Long Range Desert Group and knows more about navigating the landscape than anyone. The LRDG are barely part of the show (save for Mike) and are well worth looking up.

IRL Mike Sadler actually only passed away this year, at the age of 103.

eoin mcgonigal (dónal finn)

Most of what Eoin's around for in SAS: RH is to hang out being impossibly beautiful and being ride or die for Paddy Mayne. Dónal Finn and Jack O'Connell created the most beautiful relationship told in touches. Drives me mad. He's also the first one who really understands who Paddy is beyond the brash and violent front. Eoin McGonigal is certainly a creature.

bill fraser, johnny cooper, reg seekings, jim almonds, dave kershaw, pat riley

(stuart campbell, jacob mccarthy, theo barklem-biggs, corin silva, bobby schofield, jacob ifan)

Look, there are a lot of lads and I can't do them all justice. Some of these folks get a lot more to do than the others, and they're all distinct characters in their own right. There are two matched set duos, Reg & Johnny (enemies to lovers, 150k) and Jim & Pat (do not seperate). Jim & Pat were Jock's crew prior to the SAS and the way he gets them to join is basically by saying "hey, there's a really stupid and dangerous thing i want to do, you in?" and they do this:

each and every one of them is as bad as the others.

augustin jordan, georges bergé, andré zirnheld

Free French paratroopers, who Stirling is reluctantly forced into accepting into the SAS by Eve and Clarke. TBF, this is where SAS: RH really starts playing with history, though it serves the narrative well enough. Show!Augustin Jordan was a former professor of Philosophy at La Sorbonne, and is also a tall dark haired man, so you can see how Paddy Mayne is gonna struggle.

I had to use the sand wrestling gif here (that's augustin), you've probably seen it. It's a surprisingly interesting character scene, would you believe.

There are several other named characters, but I'm running out of energy.

other stuff

OK, so I've lost my thread here a bit. SAS: Rogue Heroes is fun, first and foremost. It really does fall down on the side of "Cool Boys Doing War", so if that's not your thing, maybe you'll not enjoy it. I personally do. And I think it does have some further depth to it than that, even if that's where it comes back to. I've never seen Peaky Blinders, but apparently it's a bit like that? IDK.

While it's very violent, I don't think it's as brutal as the HBO War shows. It's a much more heightened kind of drama, so there's a step removal I think, from the really visceral. That said, it's still a war drama, and it does feature some very nasty business.

soundtrack

it's mostly hard rock and if you don't like this, idk what to tell you. i fucking love it. once again though, mike sadler gets the best of this. you'll know it when you see it.

the fandom

The SAS Rogue Heroes fandom is small but it is mighty and it genuinely is very friendly. There is a Discord if you like, but you don't have to do it if Discord is not your thing.

While the overriding popular ship is Paddy/Eoin, Paddy/Augustin and Reg/Johnny are also wildly popular. That said, we are fond of a rarepair in this fandom, and I personally have embarked on a mission of shipping Mike Sadler with every other character. Everyone's very encouraging of wild ideas and aus, anything's welcome.

A few people are writing OCs, and that too is great. I encourage more of that! I don't think I've seen any x Reader yet, but never say never.

Come join us!

a brief suggested further reading

you really don't have to do any of this, but like, some of you are nerds, i get it. i also got a lot of other recs, but these are some good starters. you can hit me up for more, it's all good.

SAS: Rogue Heroes by Ben Macintyre

SAS Brothers in Arms: Churchill's Desperadoes - Damien Lewis

SAS: An Illustrated History of the SAS - Joshua Levine

Speed, Aggression, Surprise: The Untold Secret Origins of the SAS - Tom Petch

One of the Originals: Story of a Founder Member of the S.A.S. - Anthony Kemp & Johnny Cooper (Johnny Cooper's memoir and imo, if you read nothing else, read this)

The Phantom Major: The Story of David Stirling & the SAS Regiment - Virginia Cowles (this was written in 1958. There is a "rebuttal" biog, The Phoney Major by Gavin Mortimer, which also contains a lot of info, but I find Mortimer's bias against Stirling incredibly difficult to stomach. Difficult.)

Paddy Mayne - Hamish Ross (honestly, I'd not bother with other biogs of Blair Mayne unless you want to do a lot of reading around and getting cross)

Special Forces Brothers in Arms: Eoin & Ambrose McGonigal - Patric McGonigal (this is so personal and so beautiful, I cried several times reading it. written by Eoin's great-nephew. Ambrose, Eoin's older brother was part of the SBS, Special Boat Service, who are ALSO very interesting)

Gentleman Jim: The Wartime Story of a Founder of the SAS and Special Forces - Lorna Almonds-Windmill (another biog by a family member, this one is gentle and told with love)

Joy Street: A Wartime Romance in Letters - the published correspondence between Jock Lewes and Mirren Barford. A slightly different kind of book, but gosh. It really hits.

...and that's all I got for you right now. I could talk about this show for days though.

(forgot to add: my SAS RH blog is @regseekings, I posted this on here for the HBO war fandom)

[chronicoverthinker]

So uhm since people are talking about my tiktok I’m actually kinda upset about two things :

1-them saying that I’m accusing mokmoklen of queerbaiting when I’ve literally put a GIANT red disclaimer saying that I am in no way accusing the author since the story it’s still ongoing and I was just going to make a rundown of what the author has done recently that has made many upset with the recent chapter

2-that after reading my 30 slides all they’ve got was me saying that the queerbaiting is because Yoshiki’s ancestor is a woman WHICH IS NOT THE CASE AT ALL.

What has actually upset many , me included with hikarugashindaupdates as well who’s a dear friend of mine , is how mokmoklen has been backtracking from the original idea of the story and is now trying to erase all the subtext and implications of their feelings for one another.

When the story first started it was advertised as BL and horror , and the kind of dynamic she wanted to develop for Yoshiki and Hikaru was way different compared to what we got now (I talked about this in detail in my video so if you wanna know more look it up).

Around the beginning of volume 3 a shift happened. It first started with mokmoklen deciding to remove the BL tag , which tbh at that time still didn’t seem like that big of a deal. Especially to me , I’ve always felt like the story didn’t need to specifically be categorized as BL for Yoshiki and Hikaru’s feelings to shine through.

But then she started to make clear how “Hikaru” CANT whatsoever feel or understand human love.

Now this is where the first problems start , because in the first volumes you can clearly see that THIS is not the case AT ALL.

And it’s not proven only by his overall behavior in the story , but also from the art she used to post.

To be fair I wouldn’t even been mad about Yoshiki’s ancestor being a woman if you told me in volume 1 , because to me it was clear that Yoshiki and Hikaru loved each other.

And fundamentally speaking , since the story is still ongoing , I know that Yoshiki’s ancestor being a woman doesn’t really take anything from the possibility of Yoshiki and “Hikaru” still ending up together. But what truly upsets me about this it’s the intentions and the meaning behind this choice.

Plus the fact that mokmoklen made it clear that now Yoshiki doesn’t feel anything for “Hikaru”. It also worries me how she still hasn’t made Yoshiki open up about his feelings for the real Hikaru either. It’s as if what was so clear to us in the first volume is now being precluded to us for whatever reason.

Hikaru and Yoshiki’s love for each other and their homosexuality is one of the main points that makes them who their are and why they act in certain ways. Their struggles to accept their orientations in a closeted and homophobic village are what makes them such layered and complex characters.

And I literally concluded by saying that I do NOT believe that if this ever turns out to be queerbaiting she ever intended for any of this to happen since the beginning. Something is going on in her life because she has delated most of her BL works on her private accounts

[whatislife1babydonthurtme]

Things in Stranger Things season 4 (Volume 2) which did not make sense, were forgotten or simply pissed me off.

❗️Spoilers obviously❗️

The whole town was convinced that there was a cult going on and people got up looking for Eddie and seemingly the rest of Hellfire Club because they were convinced it was a cult. Did they just give up? They never showed up again. Also the parents didn't bring this up at the end when everyone was reunited.

Why did Mike believe that the painting was for him and El when he clearly read the letter that said Will was painting it for someone he likes. Additionally, how the fuck did Mike not notice his supposed "best friend" sobbing in the car right next to him? You can clearly see him look in Will's direction but he just doesn't do anything.

Is the police just... dead? Where are they? Why are they not actively going after Jason's crew

Where is Owen? Is he alive? Why did he say that he could get El back in Hawkins in 2 hours tops if the Cali crew said it would take all night to get back, was he gonna call a private jet or something??

Where is the military? They went to that lab and then were never heard of again.

When Nancy was Vecna'd, she was in the laboratory. Why???? She had nothing to do with that place. Why wasn't she robbed from facing her own fears and traumas at the start of volume 2? Also when she got stuck in front of those doors which were blocked off by planks, they were push doors. Why did she rip off all of those planks if she could've just pushed the door and crawled in between those planks. Maybe I'm getting something wrong here but that just seems like such a hard thing to miss while writing the script...

Why did only Jason and his buddy go to Lucas and Erica when he had a whole team? Were the other guys just watching tv?

Vecna survived being transported to another reality and being hit by lightening so much that his skin peeled off, but can't handle Steve and Robin throwing a molotov at him? Or a shotgun? Really?

Did they leave Eddie's body in the upside down? Why is nobody mourning him besides his uncle and Dustin? I thought Mike, Lucas, Steve, Nancy, Robin and even Erica cared.

So El can bring people back from the dead now? That's not telekinesis, that's Mary Sue magic. What's next? She can share her powers with anyone she wants and then they can make people fly with the jerk of a wrist?

We still don't know why the upside down is stuck on the moment Will was taken. With the way this was brought up in volume 1 it really seemed like this would be answered in volume 2. But of course not, because Will Byers just kept getting sidelined in every way possible.

How come it was leaked that 5 people would die in volume 2 but the only important characters who died were Brenner (papa) and Eddie. Max died but she was brought back to life because apparently Eleven can do that now. That's not 5 is it? Or did they count the people in that helicopter who were trying to shoot Eleven?

Were we supposed to care about Brenner's death???? With how the cemra kept focusing so much on him? I was glad to watch him go!!

The timeskip of 2 full days in the middle of the climax???? Wtf was that??????

Mike being a complete asshole to Will these past 2 seasons was just for no reason then? He is JUST an asshole??

Were Robin, Nancy and Steve just choking on those vines for like 15 minutes or was the time where Eleven struck Vecna actually a lot shorter than that?

They actually forgot Will's birthday, I hoped they were just joking but they really forgot. He was the only character with a canon birthday within the series (until they talked about Dustin's) but clearly they care so little about Will that his entire existence is forgotten.

Wasn't the upside down toxic? Why is everyone just fine inhaling the shit?

The queerbait. No, gay people didn't bait themselves. Netflix, the Duffers, and the actors were actively promoting Byler and hyping up Will's sexuality when in reality Byler is just doomed, not just as a romance but as friendship as well. And Will did not explicitly come out to anyone. People are STILL in denial that he's gay and that's exactly why you make characters come out instead of keeping it "up to interpretation wink wink"

Will calling Mike the heart of their group yet Mike's the one who broke their party up the most.

Mike saying he instantly fell in love with Eleven when they met, as if he didn't tell her to shut up, go away and stop being weird back then.

Mike saying his life started on the day he met Eleven, the same day Will went missing, in his face. When Mike said before that the best thing he had ever done was befriend Will in kindergarten.

So did Vecna create the Mind Flayer or did it already exist? Cause if Vecna created it that's so goddamn lame and it adds no new mystery.

The continuous stereotypes and suffering/deaths of outcasts, poor people, queer people and people of color. One black character plays basketball and the other is a sassy one-liner. The brown guy is a funny weed man with barely to no relevancy to the plot. One lesbian gets a lazy background ship with a girl who is an exact copy of herself and the gay character is living in a painful unrequited love story and used as fuel for the main straight couple, without even being given a canon coming out scene. All this while the straight couples get together and have tons of moments together. Eddie who is poor, is seen as a cultist, dies and nobody besides 2 people mourn his death. Max, another poor character who had already lived through trauma and abuse, dies, gets brought back to life, is now comatose, probably crippled, and maybe permanently blind.

Will's endless suffering. He just can't ever be happy can he? Wtf is wrong with the writers...

Did the Russian crew just end up at Hoppers cabin like that in 2 days? No problems whatsoever? Wow that's convenient.

Hopper hugs Mike but not his new stepsons?

Not one, not two, but three jokes about Hopper once having been fat because he's lost weight in the prison.

Comments had some great additions and I came up with some more too so here's more:

Nobody showed up to Lucas' game when he had a very valid reason to want to play, and it was never brought up again. They all stood him up.

Eddie's death was so rushed and predictable. I saw it coming as soon as he said his whole "I'm a coward I run away I'm not a hero" speech. It's typical "I'm a coward so I'll die a hero" foreshadowing which is overused and just horrible. And in the end he didn't even save anyone, it was completely unnecessary. Eddie deserved to live.

Eleven not being able to win the final fight until she got validation from her boyfriend. Why was she not allowed to do this by herself?

The military watching the pizza van drive off and then do nothing about it? I thought they were experts at tracing and tracking, but nope, they just gave up after Eleven escaped the underground lab.

Just the Cali crew being sidelined so much when they once were such interesting characters (besides Argyle)

Steve saying he always loved Nancy and never moved on despite him telling Robin in season 3 that he didn't like her anymore. Let Steve move on and stop having Nancy jump from boy to boy, hurting them both in the process.

Just a nitpick but the sound design was so overly dramatic at times? Like Brenner LITERALLY snapped a pencil and the sound design was like ☄️💥🔥

Tell me what I missed cause I'd love to add it on this shit list.