#Steph Reads Comics

[secretlystephaniebrown]

I Read Nearly Every Appearance of the Lazarus Pit Before Flashpoint and All I Got Was A Headache: A Meta Commentary

So! The Lazarus Pit!

The Lazarus Pit is obviously an iconic part of the Batman Franchise. We encounter it everywhere, from the Under the Red Hood movie, to the Lazarus Planet event which just ended.

But has the Lazarus Pit always been this way?

It's comics. Of course not.

Very long comic rant with citations below!

The Nu52 and following reboots obviously overhauled Lazarus Lore so completely they're functionally a different thing, so I'm not talking about them. Today, instead, we're talking about post-crisis/pre-Flashpoint Lazarus Pits, their contradictions, and what we can make of them.

The Lazarus Pits have been around nearly as long as Ra's and Talia have been, and even before they appeared, it was clear that Ra's had some method of extending his life.

Batman (1940-2011) #235

The first Lazarus Pit itself seems to be in a chalet in Switzerland, and it's very different than what we will later associate it as. It is instead, a mortuary slab that lowers itself into a pit of "bubbling liquid"

Batman (1940-2011) #243

In these early versions, the Lazarus Pit is portrayed as a medical invention that Ra's has used to extend his life.

It is shown to have consequences, which fandom has, of course, latched onto.

Batman (1940-2011) #244

Here, we see the Lazarus Madness described as including "the strength of ten men", and he is able to be able to resist nearly all attacks from Batman and Lo Ling.

In addition, Ra's claims that he has used the pit too often, which is shown to be the driving force behind his interest in Bruce and his legacy.

Batman (1940-2011) #244

Later appearances of Ra's and the pit throughout this era add a few more interesting tidbits.

He claims that only he can use the Lazarus Pit... but puts Talia in it in that same issue, claiming that it's okay if it's just a quick dip.

Batman (1940-2011) #335

Is Ra's lying about no one else being able to use the pit? Almost certainly. He will start putting anyone he wants into the pit soon enough.

Those with a keen eye might notice that the Lazarus Pit is already going through some aesthetic changes: we're still seeing a slab being lowered into a small pit, but now the liquid within is orange! This will come up a lot!

Next up we have the storyline Grant Morrison refused to read: Son of the Demon.

In Son of the Demon, Ra's claims that there was an earlier version of the Pit, before the final version Bruce has already encountered. In this version, he claims that Mellisande, Talia's mother, was pushed into this proto-pit, and it killed her.

Batman: Son of the Demon (1987)

Denny O'Neil will later retcon this in 1993, claiming that Talia's mother died of a drug overdose, and Ra's refused to bring her back.

But it is consistent in early versions of the story that Lazarus Pits, if not entered with proper care and with the right preparations, can be dangerous.

Bride of the Demon is the next storyline, and Ra's BRINGS the Lazarus Pits in this one. Ra's finds himself a hot MILF girlfriend and puts her in the Pit to make her younger so she can give him kids.

Batman: Bride of the Demon (1990)

This Lazarus Pit is shown to be more experimental than past versions, with Ra's and Dr. Weltmann attempting to prevent the Lazarus Madness factor.

Ra's later puts a child in the pit as a bribe to his father, but the kid had possibly been dead too long, and it was hinted there were going to be long-term consequences for the actions... which were dropped. As was the wife, who was supposedly pregnant at the end of this story. Comics!

This is the first time that limits on the Lazarus Pit are presented, but it is certainly not the last. This idea that there's an upper limit on how long someone can be dead for before a Lazarus Pit doesn't do anything will come back again.

Batman: Birth of the Demon finally brings in a more mystical aspect to the Lazarus Pits, which so far have been vaguely scientific. In this story, we are introduced to the fact that Lazarus Pits are located on the convergence points of leylines (which in-universe have something to do with the electro-magnetic field). Ra's's approximate age is revealed, and it is shown that Bruce and Ra's have been fighting a real-estate battle over sites where Lazarus Pits can be built.

Batman: Birth of the Demon (1992)

In flashbacks, we learn that Ra's figured out how to build a Lazarus Pit, and was not actually the first person to use it. Instead, it was for the son of the Sultan Ra's worked for as a physician.

After the Sultan's son went mad, killed Sora, and blamed Ra's for it, Ra's had his vengeance... by putting the son in a false Lazarus Pit.

This pit was sabotaged by not being built on a Leyline. So uh... be careful with those, I guess!

So in short: by the end of this era of Denny O'Neil/Mike Barr Lazarus Lore, we know that anyone can use a Lazarus Pit, but Ra's controls them with his knowledge of how to create them. Bruce can find where they should be by tracking leylines, and will pass this knowledge on to others over time.

We then enter a new era! The Chuck Dixon era, to be specific.

Chuck Dixon has surprisingly few retcons for us. We first really encounter his take on Lazarus Lore in his mini series Bane of the Demon, where Bane works with Ra's and co.

We get a brief recap of the lore here:

Batman: Bane of the Demon #3 (1998)

We are now introduced to an interesting new layer: the Lazarus Pits can be predicted, not just detected. Ra's has headquarters set up all over the world, in places where Lazarus Pits not only are, but will be. Some pit locations appear to remain the same throughout the years (Ra's has built numerous pits on the location of the first site: at least three that we know of), but generally, Lazarus Pits seem to be a one-time deal.

Ra's clearly has dedicated most of his life to these pits; to acquiring their locations, to predicting where they will be, experimenting with how to make them better... so obviously, he guards the formula for how to make them extremely closely, right?

Well. Not according to Chuck.

Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight (1989-2007) #145

And if you've noticed that head of green hair on the ground there, that's right folks! BRUCE WAYNE PUT A DEAD JOKER IN A LAZARUS PIT HE MADE HIMSELF.

Bruce justifies it by telling Alfred that if he does this, it means Ra's can't use it later. However, it does not change the fact that Bruce put the Joker in a Lazarus Pit. No I'm not going to be over this ever. Jason might have a point, actually.

Ra's decides, after this, that he wants another wife. And he picks Dinah Lance! But whoops, as it happens, Dinah was tortured and can't have kids (also lost her Canary Cry), way back in Green Arrow, before Ollie died! So Ra's decides to throw her in a Lazarus Pit. It... doesn't go well. Lazarus Madness + Restored Canary Cry = one destroyed building.

Birds of Prey (1999-2009) #33

Oh look! We've got locations! And of course every other Lazarus Pit we've seen or will see except Birth of the Demon is nowhere near any of these convergence points!

So! To recap the current state of the lore: Lazarus Pits are a combination of science and magic. They are an alchemical creation, built on leyline nodes. Generally, they are one-use only, or at least they require centuries to be re-usable. They can resurrect the newly-dead, but but Ra's is very cautious about letting other people use them, probably because he's a control freak, and he doesn't have too many of them left.

We depart the Dixon era and enter... the Nyssa Raatko era.

Nyssa is introduced in Death and the Maidens, with Greg Rucka, who is a huge fan of Denny O'Neil, still sticking pretty close to the original lore.

Here, we see that Bruce has still been on his kick of preventing Ra's from building more Lazarus Pits by buying up real estate where they could be. This forced Ra's to try to reconcile with his daughter Nyssa, who he gave a Lazarus Pit to sometime in the 1700s.

Batman: Death and the Maidens (2003-2004) #1

"But hey!" I can hear you say. "Isn't part of the thing that you mentioned earlier is that they're one-use?"

Well they are! For Ra's.

Nyssa, however, is a smart lady.

Nyssa, at some point in her life, figured out how to make a Lazarus Pit reusable. So she's been getting a lot of mileage out of this baby, and has been since the 1700s.

This story also presents an explanation for why the Lazarus Pit is sometimes green and sometimes orange: Nyssa's is orange and Ra's has green ones. I guess maybe the earlier orange pits that Ra's had were him trying to make them reusable like Nyssa? Hmm.

Batman: Death and the Maidens (2003-2004) #4

When questioned about it, Nyssa tells Talia that there used to be more pits, so he was less protective of them when he gave her this one.

Batman: Death and the Maidens (2003-2004) #6

At the end of this storyline, Ra's is dead, Nyssa is the new Ra's al Ghul, and according to Bruce, she has the only Lazarus Pit left.

Batman: Death and the Maidens (2003-2004) #9

Nyssa pops up again in Batgirl, facing off against Cass, and brags about her special pit again. Cass and Shiva both get dips in it. Fun times!

Batgirl (2000-2006) #69

Yes, the torture hooks are a reoccurring feature of Nyssa's pit. I don't know why.

But wait! A brief interlude!

Jason Todd came back to comics in a storyline: Under the Hood, in 2005, which wrapped up in 2006. We weren't told how Jason came back in the story itself, but a few months after Under the Hood ended, we get Batman Annual #25, which shows Talia shoving Jason into a Lazarus Pit while Ra's was using it.

Batman Annual #25 (2006)

There's no discussion about if this is a weird dip. He's got brain activity again though!

This is revisited again in Red Hood: The Lost Days, but it doesn't really add anything from the point of Lazarus Lore, except that Ra's posits that Jason, having already been resurrected, could have suffered some long-term consequences, unlike literally anyone else who had a dip.

Red Hood: The Lost Days (2010-2011) #2

Anyways, enough Jason! Nyssa gets killed off-page in OYL, so she's gone now, Talia's running the show and oh fuck it's Morrison-era. And Morrison never bothered to read any other Ra's or Talia story because it wasn't Silver Age or something. So... retcon time!

The Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul attempts to retell Birth of the Demon, but with a few retcons. The pits were discovered, not made, being the official point in which the Lazarus Pits become purely magical phenomena, rather than a work of alchemy.

Batman Annual #26 (2007)

Bruce also mentions that the Pits are connected to actual waterways, which is a massive difference from the shallow pits from earlier eras.

This era does however confirm the concept that older bodies, further along in the decay process, probably shouldn't be dipped in the Lazarus Pit. At least, Dick convinced Tim of this fact after a little while.

(Also White Ghost wants a perfectly healthy, alive Tim to bathe in the Lazarus Pit, and this is never explained. Maybe it was a distraction?)

Nightwing (1996-2009) #139

In this era, and the Batman: Reborn era following it, the Lazarus Pits are pretty absent, but the few references we do get from this point forward (including in Red Hood: The Lost Days, which are published in 2010-2011), tend to use the Morrison-era canon that the pits are natural. And also we're back to having a lot of them, instead of just Nyssa's singular one in the Balkans, and, since Ra's has a new young(er) body, there's no sense of urgency to buy up/prevent him from making new pits. Potentially, Dusan/White Ghost took advantage of the fact that the Bats thought Ra's was dead to buy back the real-estate and make new pits, but that's using the pre-Morrison lore. I guess in Morrison era, the Bats just... don't know where Pits are until they find one, and then they blow it up.

We also no longer see any one-time-use limitations. One could assume that Talia figured out the formula Nyssa used to keep the pits reusable and told Ra's, if we're trying to merge the canons.

And that's not even counting whatever is happening in the post-Flashpoint era. Lazarus Planet gives me a headache. Let's not talk about it just now.

Anyways, in short: I think the artificial, single-use Lazarus Pits are way more fun. But anyways, here's the citations to help you decide what YOU think Lazarus Lore should be!

[plagueislost]

i love being late to trends. my new years resolution is to be late to every trend ever. and you know im serious because im even late to new years.

(theres an inverse version of this by @chamiryokuroi , you should go check it out! i started making this before i saw theirs, but i think its cool that now theres both versions)

[andstuffsketches]

[ashoss]

batman and robin in the spotlight

plus the wip i gave up on bc i didnt like batman's face lolol

it was a bit of a dan mora study that i wasnt taking too seriously- just rlly in the face and hair but i still hated it lol. maybe ill do an actual dan mora study bc his style is sooo yummy

[decapod-appreciator]

some batgirls thoughts. i really enjoyed the 2020 (?) batgirls run where they live in a warehouse together and Babs uses a cane and Cass gets really into Poe and Steph wears just some of the best outfits ever. SO. my civvies designs, some theoretical winter costumes, and my desperate attempt to merge their 400 different costumes into two coherent ones. like seriously it seems like 90s steph changed her costume every other day.

[theresistanceneverquits]

There’s not enough people talking about how important Stephanie is to Damian’s growth pre-Flashpoint.

Bruce had seen Damian as a beast to be tamed, Tim sees him as a ticking time bomb, and Dick is far better with him but he’s still an authority figure for Damian to combat with. But then he meets Stephanie, a college-aged girl who nobody trusts and he bullies her relentlessly and becomes inseparable from her.

She doesn’t interact with him based on his past, but on what she can see. This 10 year old just threatened to kill her? Wow he doesn’t get outside much. He’s not old enough to have seen Gremlins. What do you MEAN you’ve never been inside a bouncy house before we are fixing that immediately.

They are like cousins to each other. They poke fun at each other for being lame and stupid and Dick has to tell them both to shut up. She doesn’t see him as a project to be molded and redeemed, he’s just a kid with a crappy childhood like her and if he’s nice to her for 5 seconds she’ll do something with him to let him feel like a kid. And he doesn’t look at her and see a liability or a failure or a lost cause, like everyone she’s ever interacted with does. When he’s awful to her, it’s because he’s an obnoxious preteen boy.

And then you get the “there’s room in our line of work for hope, too” scene. Because Damian has gotten to know Steph and he can’t fathom why she’s here. She obviously has had to deal with crap and is still working through being kept on a leash by Nightwing and Oracle, but she isn’t broken like the rest of them are. Damian is surrounded by people who were molded and shaped and torn down and broken to become the monoliths that they are, and then there’s this girl who seems so at peace with herself and is constantly making quips, and it’s so foreign to him.

And she tells him that she’s in his world because she believes people are worth fighting for.

[welcometogrouchland]

[ID in alt text, transcripts for comics also found there!]

🎉🎇HAPPY NEW YEAR!🎇🎉

Sure was a year...This is just me taking the end of year opportunity to post the various DC comics doodles that have been gathering dust in my files! Disclaimer that I'm a heathen who mostly reads batfam comics (and also a lot of. Sidekick-y stuff? Like YJ98) and these are all for fun! (Image #3 is a direct adaptation of this text post I made)

[circusofshrimps]

Robin lineup. this was mostlyyy just for me to get their designs down since i love drawing these boys. (especially dickbin

notice how they progressively get darker. its important to note that IS bruces interference. he really wants the robin costume to be more tactical than flashy. he wants them to stay safe.

additional:

more notes and maskless ver below!

In terms of height, in the long run, Jaybin is the shortest. Sure, at age 12 hes taller than Dami and Dick, but by the time theyre his age they are taller than him. he stays about that size until his resurrection.

Dicks costume very much i meant to reflect him as a performer, someone who loves the spotlight and to make other smile. I really like the shorts on his aesthetically. and the cape around his waist is not only supposed to immitate a birds tail feathers, but also to keep him covered.

The bird silloutte on the chest was removed after Dick became nightwing, thats his identity.

every robin after Dick has kneepads. Bruce made it mandatory after Dick kinda screwed up his knees. to me, adult Dick has to wear knee braces at home. (note: Dick would fall and scrape his knees a lot, thus the superman bandaid. but he still refused kneepads. he doesnt need it, how dare you?)

Jasons design is the most reminiscent of that OG robin costume design. i think when he was put into the short shorts of the robin costume he‘d ask for something longer. he wasnt a fan of how feminine the original was. dysphoria and all that. as my sketches show i like to believe during the winter Dickbin had a heavier cape to keep him warm. Jaybin, being malnourished as he is, has a hard time maintaining body heat. poor boy first time he went on patrol he was just shivering the entire time. Bruce had to bundle him in his cape.

the R logo would be under Jaybins cape, but more often than not you wouldnt see it, he has it wrapped around himself when hes not actively in a fight.

Tim‘s costume is where the influence of Bruce really shines through. he keeps the long cape from Jaybin, but the body of the suit is more reminiscent of Dickbins. But to be completely honest, Bruce had a lot more of a say in the suit. Looking to keep Tim as safe as possible after losing Jaybin. (Im not going to lie, out of all the canon robin designs, Tim‘s first has to be my favorite. there wasnt much i could think to change or add. its just too good. eye candy.)

Damians is most influenced by Bruce. (only naturally.) His cape being the only one to have the sharp spikes at the end. the pieces of his gloves sticking up. how he has the clunkiest belt. Both he and Tim have really good designs already on their own. So i couldnt think of much to change for him either.

Here‘s them maskless. All of them in their dark hair and blue eyed glory.

[secretlystephaniebrown]

Going to double down on the recs for Superman: Birthright and Superman Smashes the Klan! Also going to throw in "Superman: Secret Identity" as a good general vibe for Superman starter comics.

General Reading/Clark Kent Reading:

Superman: Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?

Superman Annual #11 "For the Man Who Has Everything"

World's Finest (1990)

Superman/Batman Annual #1

Action Comics #775 "What's so Funny About Truth, Justice & the American Way?"

Superman: Up, Up and Away

Superman: Last Son

Lois Lane Reading:

Lois Lane (1986) #1-2

Superman: The Wedding and Beyond

Detective Comics #824

Wonder Woman (1987-2006) #170

Jimmy Olsen Reading:

Harley Quinn (2000-2004) #14-19

Jimmy Olsen (2019-2020)

Krypto Reading:

Adventure Comics #210

Superman: Return to Krypton

Teen Titans (2003-2011) #7

Superman #712

Superman: Coming of Atlas

Superboy: The Boy of Steel

Kara Zor-L/Karen Starr Reading:

Power Girl (2009-2011) #13-18

John Henry Irons (Steel) Reading:

Adventures of Superman #500

Showcase '96 #1-2

Steel: Forging a Hero (Man of Steel #21-22, Steel #0-6, 8)

JLA #16

Superwoman (2016-2018) #1-18

Steelworks (2023)

Kon-El (Superboy) Reading:

Adventures of Superman #505-506

Superboy (1993-2002) #1, 5, 18

WF3: World's Finest 3

JLA: World Without Grownups

Young Justice (1998-2003) #1-6

Mae Kent (Supergirl/Matrix) Reading:

Supergirl (1994) #1-4

Superman (1987-2006) 80-Page Giant #2

Showcase '96 (1996) #8

Linda Danvers (Supergirl) Reading:

Supergirl (1996-2003) #1-12

Supergirl Plus (1996) #1

Supergirl (1996-2003) #75-80 "Many Happy Returns"

Kara Zor-El (Supergirl) Reading:

Supergirl: Being Super (2016-2017)

Supergirl (2011-2015) Vol. 1: Last Daughter of Krypton

Supergirl (2011-2015) Vol. 6: Crucible

Cir-El (Supergirl) Reading:

Action Comics #806-808 "Supergirls"

Kong Kenan (Super-Man)

New Super-Man (2016-2018) Vol. 1: Made in China

New Super-Man and the Justice League of China

Jon Kent (Superboy)

Superman: Lois and Clark (2015-2016)

Super Sons: The Polarshield Project

Superman (2016-2018) Vol. 2: Trials of the Super Sons

Super Sons (2017-2018) Vol. 1: When I Grow Up

Superman (2016-2018) Vol. 5: Hopes and Fears

Do you have any recommendations for Superfam, Wonderfam, Flashfam and Arrowfam comics? I read your Batman starter list and I'm working my way through it, but I also wanted to try something different. Thanks!

Sort of, yeah! I put together a Wonderfam starter recs list awhile back; you can find it here.

Flashfam....I'm not nearly as familiar with, but Mark Waid's Flash run and Jeremy Adams' Flash run (both starring Wally) are fantastic, as is Impulse (1995). The Arrowfam is also generally out of my capacity to rec properly besides recommending Titans (1999) for Roy, Birds of Prey (1999) for Dinah, and a few scattered Arrowfam comics here and there (like Hard-Traveling Heroes, Quiver, and the Green Arrow Rebirth run).

And of course Young Justice (1998) if you want to read more Bart Allen, Cassie Sandsmark, and Kon-El.

....honestly, I would ask @ectonurites and @secretlystephaniebrown for Superfam recs. I have my own favorites, but they both know infinitely more about the Superfam than me and would be able to give you a much better "starter recs" list than I would. I would personally recommend Superman: Birthright and Superman Smashes the Klan as good intro comics. Everything after that kind of depends on what characters you want to read more about.

[theerurishipper]

Honestly, I do love Dick as Nightwing and Bruce and Dick's complicated relationship, but sometimes I like the old days when things were sweet and simple you know? When it was just them and Alfred and they all had fun with each other. Like when they blew off boring parties to go on patrol by using Dick's bedtime as an excuse. When Bruce let Dick go off on his own and said he was allowed "a little escapade" and ruffled his hair. When Alfred always brought coffee and "turkey sandwiches with Swiss cheese" to the Batcave while Dick and Bruce happily talked about their nightlife escapades. When Dick would make Bruce laugh regularly.

When they discussed Hamlet while riding in the Batmobile. When Alfred picked Dick up from school and dropped him off on dates and helped him go behind Bruce's back on cases. When Dick and Bruce would play fight with each other. When Dick made Batman's meetings with Gordon "more optimistic." When Bruce was being a helicopter parent and wanting to know why Dick would want to go to a public school. When Dick would sneak off with Clark when Bruce wanted him to stay back to finish his homework, and Clark did it for him before Bruce noticed. When Bruce teased Dick about his failed date, and they talked about it and their love lives. When Bruce apparently told stories about Joker to Dick during rides in the Batmobile. When Dick was actually the one who named the aforementioned Batmobile. When they would banter even in between a serious case. When Dick would cling onto Bruce to annoy him. When Dick was contemplating how alone he felt, and Bruce just showed up to catch him and do a routine on the trapeze with him. When Bruce would call Dick "kiddo." When Dick even called him stuff like "Bruce-ter." When Bruce used to call Dick "chum." I miss those days.

Yeah a lot of these are from Robin: Year One but that's just because it's the one I remember most. But there's a lot of them just having a good time and it doesn't feel like we see a lot of that anymore.

[secretlystephaniebrown]

Years ago I was given a Wonder Woman heat activated mug, where you add hot liquid and Diana’s civilian guise disappears and she reappears as Wonder Woman.

Recently, I moved in with my girlfriend, who is also a major comics nerd. And she has one similar, but for Superman!

The issue with mugs like these is that they can't go through the dishwasher, and we're always worried about them chipping or getting scratched. So we decided to put them on display, and that we'd go hunting on ebay for the Batman one, to finish up the Trinity!

So we went looking.

Only to discover, that for once in Batman's over-merched career, the company didn't make a Batman version of these mugs. They only made Wonder Woman and Superman!

So anyways I guess Diana and Clark are just going to have to hang out without Bruce 😂

[casscainmainly]

If we're going to reduce Stephanie Brown to 'waffle girl' we should at least know the history. Everyone read up on the Waffles For Stephanie campaign:

From CBR, published June 26 2012.

Even funnier is that Dan DiDio claimed there were only 'ten waffles sent', but the Bleeding Cool interviewer (Rich Johnson) was not having it:

We may never know how many waffles were actually sent, or whether the campaign helped Steph come back or not, but we do know it ticked Dan DiDio off:

So for all intents and purposes it was a win!

[andstuffsketches]

more Batgirl redraws

[ashoss]

stephcass + hugs (plus the hallucinated ones)

batgirl (2000) #26 / batgirl (2000) #38 / solo (2004) #10 / batgirl (2000) #62 / batgirl (2000) #72 / detective comics (2016) #945 / detective comics (2016) #980 / batman (2016) #116 / batgirls #4 / batgirls #8 / batgirls annual 2022 / batgirls #15 / batgirls #18 / batman (2016) #149 / batgirl (2024) #5

[malenjoyer]

I just had a passing thought about my own stuff from an outsider POV. I wondered if anyone who’s not a huge fan of dick questions why Dick Grayson in most of the stuff I post…

Why all of a sudden Dick Grayson is the bus driver- because I hired him!!! I want to see him! I’m gonna put him in everything!

[welcometogrouchland]

Was skimming through some Dixon era BoP for no particular reason and came across a scene where 3 DIFFERENT MEN (Dick Grayson, Ted Kord and Jason Bard) all show up to Babs' door at almost exactly the same time bc they're all in love with her.

Birds of Prey (1999) #19

Which is, A) really funny on its own and B) actually extremely based from a representational view. Oracle was important as disability rep in comics for a lot of reasons, one of which being that she got mad bitches in her wheelchair. She had too much swag and they had to kill her