#and jason: what other vigilante?

[ilostmygenderalongwithmydignity]

So while reading this 10/10 post, I got caught up on one of the tags saying that Alfred will still dump bodies in the nearby lake when someone annoys him enough, which is funny as fuck, but it made me think about the possibility of Alfred having his own persona that none of the Bats know about. Idk what it would be called, obviously not Agent A or Penny-One, but his MO is basically “this guy sucks, so I shot him and now he’s disappeared. You’re welcome”

Anyway, he does his absolute best to stay under the radar, but he has at least a few contacts in the city, so when Jason comes back, they cross paths. Idk where I’m going with this, but the two of them in their “fuck you, die” personae working together on something without realizing who the other one is? Impeccable. If they’re both like “haha, you remind me of someone I used to know”? Even better. Maybe it’s revealed at the end of whatever more serious case they end up working together on, or maybe after Red Hood is revealed to be Jason Alfred accidentally slips and references something only the two of them know, but whatever the case it definitely causes that Spider-Man pointing meme to occur.

[superbat-lmao]

Before Jason makes his debut as Red Hood, he goes apartment hunting.

And the thing about Gotham is, all of the apartments that would make for good safe houses, are safe houses. The Bat’s safe houses. If Jason wants to set up shop, he’s got to get creative. This means being willing to look the other way about some things. Namely, living with other people.

Jason gets a roommate.

Sure, he’d found a couple of spots that fit some of the criteria he used for making safe houses, but not all apartments were equal. And having a semi-functioning civilian cover was useful. Sometimes.

All this to say that Jason responded to a craigslist post of some guy looking for a roommate. The post was written well enough, decent grammar and a fair enough price. Unlike some of the places he’d “toured.”

He has to trudge up a few flights of stairs to get to the place, because roof access is always high on the priority list, and knocks on the door. He waits a few minutes, hears someone check the peephole, and then the sound of at least five separate locks being undone.

With the door finally open, he gets a good look at the guy’s face. Too good of a look, actually.

Because the man who opens it is Dick Grayson.

[disniq]

Oh I misread that last post actually. While Jason's loneliness definitely resonates, I don't think it's self made in the slightest.

If anything he's guilty of reaching out at any cost - originally by using violence and antagonism to force interaction (UTRH and BiB, arguably the titans tower thing), and later by consistently showing up when called no matter how badly he's been treated, doing Bruce's bidding, and being 110% willing to sacrifice himself for the cause in the hopes that it'll finally be enough, even though it never is.

[tiredofsatansbullshit]

love that jason is just

literally any character: i feel like things can’t get any worse from here

jason, showing up out of nowhere: GUESS AGAIN MOTHERFUCKER

[snowcoming]

since i vent a lot here about wrong opinions about dick grayson, i need to mention that i saw someone say that in a fight in the batfam dick would be knocked out first which is wild-

how does that even work?

[dreams-of-void]

"oh Jason fought Tim in Titans tower because he didn't want any child to be a vigilante after how he ended up" sometimes what you guys want is just Joey Wilson.

[xx-knife-xx]

AUs where Jason didn't die (but DID stay Robin) are a really interesting concept to me.

Mainly because Jason's death changed Bruce and affected how Bruce treated people a lot. I would love to see people's takes on a Bruce who didn't loose Jason and his relationships with other batfam members. But ALSO because what would Jason's life been like? God...

[idreamofneonsheep]

Words aren't wording? Draw some of batman's child army instead

Featuring my inability to draw both starfish *and* children

From top left: Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Cass Cain, Steph Brown, Carrie Kelley, Damian Wayne, Duke Thomas, and Jarro (Bruce's favorite child)

[dukeofthomas]

I will forever maintain that Jason would've been fine and Not a vigilante without Bruce making him Robin

[superbat-lmao]

Bruce Wayne dies, and like a prayer, Jason Todd returns to Gotham. Always too late.

He never followed his plans or became Red Hood, instead finishing his schooling and traveling for a while with Talia to stay in shape. He and Damian on and off text or call, but they both know the other is living the way they need to. They’ll always be there, but sometimes you need your own space to figure out what you really want.

When Dick takes up the mantle and Damian becomes Robin, Jason takes a posting at Gotham University and rents an apartment in the alley. Damian comes to visit and Jason tells him stories, as many as he can remember. The kid wanted to know his Dad, after all.

They don’t tell the others. Instead, grieving the loss of their Father together. When Jason came back to Gotham he expected anger. Now he just feels lost.

It’s completely on accident that Dick learns his identity. He gets a call one night from Damian, not panicked but alert. He’s calling for backup because Batman was shot.

Jason has the two of them in the back of a stolen car and makes it all the way past the security of the Batcave before he really comes to his senses. It’s a bit of a clusterfuck after that, between Alfred and Leslie trying to prioritize Dick while interrogating the imposter until they’re satisfied he’s just Jason. Their Jason.

And maybe it gets a little better. Jason has to go out as Batman until Dick’s back on his feet, so he and Damian patrol together and come home to Alfred and Dick. He goes to see Babs at the Clocktower and she introduces him to his sister, Cass, one of the few people Damian speaks highly of.

It’s different, and weird, and he and Dick have a couple of fights. But it could be worse. Slowly but surely, they figure things out. Try to move on.

And then Tim comes home and like a prayer, Bruce Wayne is alive again. Always too late.

[necrotic-nephilim]

do you ship helena bertinelli with anyone? if yes, then which characters and why? what's your favorite helena ship? do you have any helena rarepairs? (i know you've talked about helena/steph and you're so right about it, it's a very interesting ship)

!!!! i have so many ships for my best girl ever yes oh my god thank you for asking.

my top pairing is probably Vic Sage/the Question. Vic is the basic answer, but man. i love them so much. no couple has matched each other's freak like that have. Justice League Unlimited is a great adaptation of Helena in general, but it also did a great adaptation of Helena and Vic's relationship. how he just dedicates himself to helping her with no expected return, but also wants to make sure she doesn't go too far in a hunt for vengeance that never ends for her. i think a lot of characters often want to change Helena or expect things out of her for their own needs, like the Batfam and the BoP. but Vic is one of the few people who just wants her to be better for her own good. when he tries to stop her from killing it's not because of his morals, it's because he doesn't want this crusade to consume her. and i just. man i think about them a lot. Helena rlly likes weird little men who give themselves wholly to her.

Zinda Blake/Lady Blackhawk is also a top ship for me. tbh i just like Zinda. but i do love how Helena and Zinda interact, being the more rough and tumble members of the BoP. they're both outsiders, in different ways. Helena is an outsider of the Batfam and Zinda is literally from a different time and an outsider to the current world. their friendship is so genuine and i think if Babs and Dinah can have. whatever homoerotic nonsense going on during BoP, then Zinda and Helena deserve some homoerotic nonsense too. as a treat.

if we're willing to count New-52 Helena, then i enjoy Helena/Dick/Tiger. i think Helena and Dick being a past relationship is really important in pre-Flashpoint for Helena's development, though i don't ship them as a serious couple beyond a fling. but in the New-52, i think this throuple be fun. Helena and Tiger respect each other as two very driven, no-nonsense agents and then well. they both clearly have some kind of thing for Dick. so it's fun finding the balance of how they could all work together romantically.

and ofc. it's a crime to mention Helena ships and not mention Renee Montoya/the Question. every time they interact it's really fucking gay. it's so gay that Kate Kane, Renee's own ex, assumed Helena and Renee were gay. i cannot be convinced against this ship. i genuinely think this ship should be canon. i mean. DC did tease us with this moment from an alternate universe and it's lived rent for me since. fucking criminal for us to only get one panel of what we could have if DC let Helena be a fruit in the main universe. being in love with Helena Bertinelli should be a right of passage for the Question mantle, i personally believe. if you asked me like. genuinely who i want to see Helena date in the current comics, Renee is my top pick. (i would say Vic but he's fucking dead and the New-52 butchered him so rip my mans-)

lois lane (2019) #10

besides those ships, just about every ship for Helena probably falls into the category of rarepair. like you said i've talked about my love for Helena/Steph before bc god. i think it should be a thing more people ship. once i finish the fic i'm writing about them i will convince others to like it.

i also think Helena/Cass could be fun. in a *lot* of ways Helena and Cass are narrative parallels to each other. Helena was a victim of her family being murdered at about the same age Cass was forced to be a murderer. Helena grows up to believe in lethal justice because of this, and Cass grows up to be staunchly against it. Cass' Batgirl suit was made *by* Helena. they both want to be protectors of the most vulnerable people. they balance each other out in a lot of ways and i think they should kiss about it.

also probably a rarepair, i think Helena/Lady Shiva is fun. their fight during Birds of Prey (2010) had... questionable moments for Helena's characterization, but i do love so much that Helena knocks Shiva off her feet and gains a deep respect from Shiva. like. Shiva gives her a nickname and shows her admiration. i would like to see fanfic where Shiva continues to be weirdly admirable of Helena and bothering her non-stop. they could be a fun fucked up toxic yuri moment. this is just. so gay to me.

birds of prey (2010) #6

my most rare Helena pair would probably be Helena Wayne, actually. but specifically Helena Wayne of JSA (2022). ever since, for some reason, it was made canon that the current Helena Wayne was named after Helena Bertinelli and took the name Huntress to honor her i *cannot* stop thinking about them meeting. because in-universe it makes *no* fucking sense for Bruce to name his kid after *Helena Bertinelli*, someone he's regularly at odds with and doesn't like. it's clearly an awkward explanation to try to make the whole two Huntress situation make sense. (it's almost as bad as Helena Wayne in the New-52 using Helena Bertinelli as an alias.) but because it's such an odd choice, i do think it could be fun for Helena Wayne, when she's back in time to see Bruce, to find Helena Bertinelli to get to know the woman she was named after and Helena Bertinelli just being. baffled by the idea of *Batman* naming his kid after her. it could be a fun fucked up moment.

my other super rarepair is Kara Zor-L/Power Girl. they had like. one meaningful interaction of JSA Classified and it's been PLAGUING me. something about when Power Girl doesn't remember her past and she's seeking a friend, she instinctively goes to find Huntress? but it's wrong bc this isn't *her* Huntress and neither of them understand why Power Girl would seek Helena out? god it's so good. i'm always a big fan of ships where one person in the ship is *so* obviously using the other person as a replacement for someone they lost and they both know it. it's such a doomed angsty thing where you could play with Helena actually really liking Kara, but knowing that she's just a replacement for Kara's Helena Wayne. good fucked up shit man.

and lastly: i really ship her with Dawn Granger/Dove. there's no canon basis for this, they didn't have a ton of interactions even when they were both on the BoP. but there's a very kind innocence to Dawn that contrasts Helena's violence really well. and i do love a ship with a corruption kink vibe to it. let Helena corrupt Dawn. i could write such fucked up porn about these two.

[mikakuna]

batman really just be saying shit. "killing the joker will make you the same as him"

like oh yes of course. you're definitely on par with a man who's killed thousands of innocents because you killed one person. bitch please. you're telling me bruce being a pussy enabler is why thousands of people die at the hands of one person? he should just go to therapy after killing the joker if it's that big of a deal. if you're gonna take on a role as serious and God-like as Batman/hero, you need to accept that you have to do immoral and messed up things. there's no reason to really make batman so strictly Moral if the supervillains he fights really show no shame in mass murdering and torturing innocents- innocents in a city that he swears is his and his to protect.

in a universe like dc where supervillains (+people who work with chemicals that aren't usable in the real world) exist and absolutely cannot be tied down in prison, killing is likely one of the only ways to keep cities safe. like sorry but batman has to kill the joker, a mass murderer, if he wants gotham to become a safer place. it's that or create an indestructible prison that no villains can escape from no matter what. which surprisingly hasn't been made yet, from what i know, despite all the amazing tech bruce has and can afford

[roobylavender]

i missed that class what dont you like about starlins rendition of their relationship?

(and also like, DID you think he did something in particular well or was it all…meh

the crux of my issues in this regard stems from batman #416. in the post-crisis era you began to see this way more lopsided depiction of bruce and dick's relationship wherein the former was portrayed to be almost.. bitter that dick had moved on to establish his own life. and it stood in great, great contrast to the bruce of the pre-crisis era, who was certainly devastated at the realization that dick was growing up, but also very intent for him to find his own happiness and way in life. they would have their disagreements on occasion (e.g., bruce initially disapproving of dick dropping out of college, bruce immediately taking leadership of a situation where the titans were involved when dick was better equipped to handle it, etc.) but the outcome of those situations was never outright bad yknow. bruce was very much capable of recognizing where he might have overstepped and subsequently stepped back to let dick have his own space. and i think initially max allan collins expanded on that dynamic in the post-crisis era in interesting ways by juxtaposing bruce's desire to see dick flourish against his own constant fear for dick's life. so instead of mike w. barr's comedic and lighthearted backup stories in early 80s tec where bruce disguised himself to keep an eye on dick's shenanigans and assure himself everything was going alright, you got this more serious confrontation within bruce with regards to his position as a parent. i don't think a lot of people read it that deeply but i've always viewed batman #408 as one of the most sensible depictions of that dilemma. the general complaints tend to be that this issue robbed dick of his pre-crisis decision to retire robin on his own, and i'll concede that as a worthwhile concern. but i don't think it's esp damning what with the implication that bruce no longer wants to be the person indirectly making the decision for dick to continue to be in this line of work. their moment at dick's bedside is less about bruce robbing him of the decision and more about him saying, if i let you still be robin, that's a direct reflection on me, bc i'm the one who got you to do all of this originally. i'm the one who put you directly in harm's way. if you're going to do this from now on, you need to do it on your own terms. you need to decide for yourself that this is who you want to be, without your relationship with me even being a factor.

it's a moment contributive to that delicious dynamic between them wherein every decision bruce takes to service dick's agency is inevitably read the wrong way by the latter to imply that he's not valued or not worthy of being seen as bruce's equal (and before the hounds pounce on me this obv does not include the increasingly abusive depiction of their relationship as the 90s progressed). that is an unavoidable dilemma when you're simultaneously someone's ward/adopted son and also their partner-in-crime! dick wants to be bruce's son and to be entitled to all of the love and care and protection that that entails but he also wants to be bruce's brother, his equal, his confidante, the one person he trusts more than anyone else in the world, etc. it's a tough place to be! it is paradoxical! and i'm so, so open to seeing that explored and think the way collins attempted to approach it in #408 was marvelous. but the way starlin (and other writers as well) totally swerved right in #416 to create this sudden resentment in bruce that dick had grown out of needing him was.. so utterly bizarre. like completely out of left field in a way i don't understand why people don't question it anymore bc in light of everything in the immediate fifteen years prior to the crisis it makes so little sense. their relationship with each other was so valued, bruce was so anxious to see dick establish himself while nonetheless maintaining a protectiveness over him, but it was all very much in good will even if he could overstep on occasion. it had all of the potential to allow for a very nuanced, empathetic exploration into the dilemmas of parenthood and esp when you are someone like bruce who has to forever live and contend with the crime of taking kids with him out onto the streets. bc he has to feel guilty! there is no escaping it. this is history, done and dusted forever, can't go back in time, so on and so forth. whatever harm comes any robin's way he has to live with as in some part being traceable back to his own actions. and i frankly believe that would be far more likely to evoke grief and anxiousness and concern than it would be bitterness that his son is charting out his own life

[gece-misin-nesin]

Saw someone say "the point of jason todd is that you're supposed to disagree with him, that he's WRONG " mhm...is he though?

[kitkat-4772]

Yes. Black absorbs heat and you will die in there. Get light brown or white. Lighter colors reflect sunlight, and those two colors look the most like an actual coffin. :D

Bruce: Jason, we’re going to the beach on Saturday do you want to come?

Jason: sure.

Bruce: Really?

Jason: yeah I’ll get to use the new pool float I bought.

Bruce: great. See you Saturday.

Jason on Saturday rolling up with one of these:

[superbat-lmao]

Jason Todd gets blown up, resurrected, and after regaining his skills and control from Talia, goes back to Gotham and goes back to school. He leaves vigilantism entirely.

He’s taking literature and philosophy classes and just about anything to do with writing.

He makes friends, he’s on his way to normalcy.

And then he sees an opening for an opinion writer for the school newspaper.

Clark Kent gets sent the same newspaper article to read in both his civilian and superhero personas. If that’s not concerning, he doesn’t know what it.

It’s an opinion article on the state of vigilantism and hero work by a student in the next town over. And it’s a problem.

Because it’s good, too good. It feels like someone had sat in the watchtower during those first few months where everyone had been trying to work out how to function with so many different stances on morality and ethics. Should any of them really be doing this? What were the lines they couldn’t cross? If we’re working outside the law, what moral credibility do we have otherwise to justify our actions?

And sure, Clark’s written more than a few pieces criticizing Superman, but there’s a point to that. He has his own reasons. This kid, well, Clark isn’t sure of their reasons exactly. Because his gut reaction is thinking this kid is just making heroes and vigilantes look bad.

And there’s a reason that all of his and Bruce’s debates on ethics happen behind closed doors. Because to be self critical is to try and prevent hubris, but to allow public criticism at this level is to lose the faith of the public.

So Clark is torn. Because if he responds, he gives credibility to what could remain a largely unknown article. And if he doesn’t, he can’t control the reaction of other people start responding to it.

He’ll have to talk to Bruce.