#discourse and discussion (fanfiction)

[allthingswhumpyandangsty]

[001x456]

“ships should at least make sense.” no. ships can make sense, sure. but they’re just fictional characters we play with for fun. they’re fantasies, not a fucking thesis paper. so no, they don’t always have to make sense. they just have to make you happy (or horny).

let people enjoy (fictional) things however they want to enjoy.

[frontmansdefender]

shaming and making fun of people for still engaging in fandom activities once they reach a certain age is so embarrassing because why are you giving yourself an expiration date of time you have fun? why are you not-so-indirectly saying you will stop having fun once you reach a certain age? or do you really believe you have to stop engaging in fandom activities and having fun once you turn (x)? do you not think you will, what, live that long and turn that age too? do you think fun will suddenly stop for you and life will all of a sudden lose its meaning once you reach a certain age? how sad to be giving yourself an hourglass and just waiting for your time of having fun to run out.

adults can and should engage in fandom activities if it's what makes them happy.

adults can and should continue doing whatever they like doing as teenagers if it's what makes them happy.

age is just... part of life. it's a part of me and it's a part of you. shaming people for something you will have to go through (unless you don't think you will live that long) is such a loser behavior. indirectly saying you will stop having fun once you reach a certain age isn't the flex you think it is. it doesn't make you look "cool and edgy", it makes you look miserable.

[bebx]

[curiositysavesthecat]

*This poll was submitted to us and we simply posted it so people could vote and discuss their opinions on the matter. If you’d like for us to ask the internet a question for you, feel free to drop the poll of your choice in our inbox and we’ll post them anonymously (for more info, please check our pinned post).

[questions-about-blorbos]

people who ship a ship that's unhealthy, toxic and fucked up and do not shy away from the fact their ship is unhealthy, toxic and fucked up by making them act all "lovey dovey" toward each other, or watering down the severity of the things that canonically make their ship a fucked up ship, in fanfics — and so they embrace the fact that their ship is fucked up, but that's the thing that makes their ship so hot, sexy, complex and fascinating — I am declaring my undying love and loyalty to you

[cowboylikeyouu]

saw a tiktok today complaining about podfics. the video itself was fine and more funny than anything, but the comments were brutal, and it genuinely made me want to cry. you're telling me there are people contributing to fandom & making it more accessible by recording their favorite fics, editing for hours, making covers for it, inserting music & background noises, and your only reaction to that is to be a whiny bitch in a tiktok comment section and comment things like:

"podfics are ASS"

"i hate podfics so much GET AWAY FROM ME"

"those belong on fucking youtube, not ao3"

"yeah well sadly only 1 in 100 podfics is good!"

"i see, i'm in the right fandoms bc there aren't podfics"

?????? i will never understand how people can carry so much negativity towards something so harmless & amazing. why is it impossible for some people to appreciate the work behind something & be happy for the people who can enjoy it, instead of calling a whole genre of fanwork trash just bc THEY don't like it??

the worst thing? some people in that comment section were like "oh, i was thinking about recording my fics, but after seeing this comment section? yeah i won't bother."

and that's just so, so sad. i'm not even that into podfics, not really my cup of tea, but i admire everyone who records fics in their freetime and i appreciate you guys so much. don't get discouraged from doing something you enjoy - that at least one other person will enjoy as well - just because some whiny teens on tiktok can't use the "exclude" button correctly <3

podfics are just as great a contribution to fandom as everything else and if people can't see that: their loss.

[srslylini]

ok let me turn this shipping discourse stuff on its head. We always see the "shipping is getting destroyed," notion. "By people saying you can't ship those people because this and that"

Yeah but did we pause and think that it's also getting destroyed because people, who ship certain characters, seemingly can't do shipping without acting like it just has to be canon anymore? To the point where they viciously attack anyone who says "uhm actually cool that you ship it, it isn't canon, though"

I promise you, you don't have to find ten thousand unrelated reasons and ways to ship people and you also don't need to make up some weird shit for it to happen. Ship your ship and let others not ship it. Stop fighting over how "canon" it actually is. Especially when it isn't and turns out to not be canon by the end of the media you consume and ship it in.

It just isn't canon, you are also destroying the fandom experience by being a weird little shit about that. That also translates in how the canon relationship then gets hated on/treated. I beg you to ship your ship in peace and leave the other stuff alone.

There is absolutely no need to hate another (canon) ship and act like it sucks (which happens I know ships can suck, but not always, be so for real) or even be misogynistic as a result of this. Just ship your non canon ship in peace and let others do the same.

[parttimetomfooler]

There is a very weird discourse going around about censorship in fandom right now. Ao3 censorship would not only logistically be a nightmare for the people on Ao3's team, but would also defeat the purpose entirely.

Archive of Our Own is a place where people can write whatever the fuck they want, and read whatever the fuck they want. Judgement free, as long as they don't tell anyone IRL. Censoring things that are uncomfortable will 1) lead to the censoring of works that are not romanticizing this thing (this is how mass censorship works, especially on the internet. Ao3's team cannot read every Rape/Non Con fic and decide personally which ones are and aren't romanticizing it) and 2) leads to things that are 'controversial' being censored. And suddenly you can't write and publish anything with kink in it at all because it can be taken as romanticizing harmful dynamics. I saw someone lump in watersports with the romanticization of stalking/rape.

AO3 has and should always be a don't like don't read space.

[allthingswhumpyandangsty]

[001x456]

it’s unfortunate that (some) people in fandom spaces are starting to get too comfortable complaining and being rude to writers and artists who create contents they personally don’t like (“why are you making this character a top when he’s obviously a bottom? omg do you even understand his character?” “I’m so sick of seeing fan art and fanfic where this character is portrayed as a sadist when he’s actually misunderstood in my opinions, therefore anyone who disagrees with me is wrong and should be shamed” just to name a few I’ve seen) instead of curating their own fandom experiences by engaging only with contents they do like.

you want more fics where (x) is written in this specific way? either write one yourself or politely expressing your opinion about how you hope there will be more fics where (x) is written in this specific way instead of making fandom a toxic place by being rude to writers and artists who dare make contents that are not to your Personal Liking.

if the universe does not revolve around you, strangers and fandom spaces don’t have to cater exclusively to your personal preferences either.

to all my beloved writers and artists, write whatever you want, draw whatever you want. portray that character in whichever way you want to portray. I hope you have fun doing what you love. don’t let anybody tell you what you can or can’t do with the blorbo. go wild. I will always support you

[frontmansdefender]

"On AO3 there are about 6,400,000 fics as of now that are M/M and only about 1,200,000 fics for F/F. Fans should stop excluding female characters for the sake of male characters" Hold the fuck on???? People don't "exclude female characters for the sake of male characters". The ratio between M/M fics and F/F fics is literally because more people like M/M fics more than they do F/F and that's actually fine, it's not that deep. Because people can write whatever they like.

Yes, misogyny is a very real thing. But you're erasing the creditability of that word and are the ones doing harm to women if you scream misogyny every time you see something that slightly upsets you. Writers ONLY writing M/M doesn't automatically mean they're misogynists, without any other factors present that may or may not make them misogynists, the only fact that 'some writers ONLY write M/M' literally just means they like writing romance between two male characters and that's it.

This is fanfiction we're talking about, not a political debate or social justice protest. If the majority of people want to write about two male characters falling in love, then let them.

You don't get to shame a writer for "ONLY writing about M/M" because everybody has the rights to write whatever they like.

If you want more works for F/F, then write F/F yourself. No one's stopping you.

As a feminist myself, shaming writers for only writing M/M doesn't make you a feminist, it makes you an entitled dick.

(from this poll by @curiositysavesthecat nothing against the mods of the poll blog btw, they just run polls that were sent to them.)

[bebx]

[curiositysavesthecat]

*This poll was submitted to us and we simply posted it so people could vote and discuss their opinions on the matter. If you’d like for us to ask the internet a question for you, feel free to drop the poll of your choice in our inbox and we’ll post them anonymously (for more info, please check our pinned post).

[questions-about-blorbos]

“omg I didn’t know this artist was a pro shipper. this is so disappointing. I was a fan of their works. what a wasted talent😭” babe, why would you think people who are talented enough to make all these beautiful art - or write all these beautiful fics - are not smart enough to differentiate and separate fiction from reality?😭

[qiu-yan]

sensitive topic incoming

not a haterpost i promise.

sect leader yao is not a reliable source

further explanation/hypothesizing:

it happened exactly as sect leader yao said: self-explanatory. the version of events preferred by jiggy antis

he mercy-killed rusong: maybe rusong was already showing signs of a life-altering disorder as a result of the incest. or maybe jiggy just felt that, if the incest information ever came out, rusong would be doomed to a life of suffering in a heavily prejudiced society. jiggy himself had spent his entire life suffering and getting kicked around due to his own proximity to society's pariahs/taboos, so perhaps he felt that he could not subject his son to the same miserable existence. thus, jiggy gave rusong a more peaceful end, before (in jiggy's mind) society could force rusong to suffer.

he allowed rusong to die through inaction: this is really only a "kill" under a utilitarian moral framework. by this explanation, maybe jiggy found out in advance that someone was planning to kill rusong; however, for any of the other reasons listed here, jiggy decided to do nothing and allow the assassination to happen. thus jiggy would consider himself guilty of allowing rusong's death to happen through inaction.

he did it to justify eliminating an opponent of the watchtowers: maybe the advancement of the watchtower project, which jiggy knew would make society a safer place, had hit a deadlock because of a particularly stubborn opponent. so jiggy killed rusong and framed the opponent in order to engineer a situation in which his annihilation of the opponent would be entirely socially sanctioned.

and here is where the utilitarian arguments come in. perhaps jiggy knew that the watchtower project would improve the lives of millions of people and would make society as a whole safer. and he saw that one political opponent as the final major barrier. and jiggy could think of no other way to get rid of this guy. so jiggy weighed the lives of those millions of people against his one son, and concluded those millions of strangers were weightier; his son became his iphigenia.

of course, this is still a rather unhinged plan to just come up with on your own, so perhaps a better explanation of events is this reasoning paired with the "he allowed rusong to die through inaction" series of events.

rusong was killed by political opponents and jiggy blamed himself: now we reach the "he didn't do it" section of the potential explanations. jiggy has a habit of claiming kills he didn't strictly perform himself; so long as the chain of cause and effect can somehow be traced to somewhere near him eventually, jiggy will claim credit for someone's death. this is how jiggy takes credit for the death of jin zixuan: even though [novel canon] no one forced wei wuxian to lose control of wen ning and no one forced wen ning to attack jin zixuan, jiggy still acts as if he can call himself jin zixuan's killer, simply because he sent jin zixuan to wei wuxian's location.

jiggy, in pursuing the watchtower project, aroused a lot of public anger. jiggy made himself, and by extension his wife and his child, the political enemies of many, and thus political targets as well. thus, if an enemy targets the life of jin rusong because they are jiggy's enemy, jiggy is entirely justified in feeling as if rusong's death is his fault. after all, if he hadn't pursued the watchtower project, then maybe rusong would still be alive.

jiggy said "he had to die" as a Cope: losing your son sucks. perhaps jiggy, in the despair following his son's death, tried to cope with the new reality by telling himself that rusong would have had to die anyways, because he was an incest baby. if rusong was always slated to die, then the fact that rusong is now dead can now be survived. thus, "rusong had to die" becomes an emotional coping mechanism for jiggy.

no, jiggy himself is uncertain if he allowed rusong to die through inaction: this one is a a bit fanciful but bear with me here. on one hand, jiggy loves his wife and son. on the other hand, jiggy is horrified by his marriage with his wife and by the existence of his son, because his wife is also his sister and his son is the product of incest. jiggy lives with not only this horror but also the constant fear of exposure, because if this information ever got out, the lives of himself, his wife, and his son would all be over.

rusong's growth thus becomes a source of dread, not hope: every day lived brings the possibility of rusong developing some disorder or condition that eventually proves the incest. is it not possible that jiggy, living every day under such fear, might come to believe that things would be better if rusong stopped growing older? if rusong died--then gone too would be the evidence of the incest, would it not?

now along comes the political opponent who assassinates rusong. jiggy does not see it coming and jiggy is thus unable to stop it. but afterwards, upon beholding the corpse of his son, what does jiggy feel? rage? despair? no--relief! he feels relief! though he also grieves, the constant fear shrouding his entire life has, for once, lifted!

but if jiggy is relieved by the death of his son, what does this imply? can jiggy truly say, with full confidence, that he did not see the assassination coming? can he really say, with heaven and earth as his witnesses, that his failure to stop the assassination was not to some degree a choice? is there truly no small part of him that did in fact see the assassination coming--yet, knowing it would be so relieving for him, simply chose to do nothing?

but if jiggy did not see the assassination coming at all--if rusong's death truly cannot be pinned on jiggy at all--then what does that say about jiggy's power? about jiggy's safety? jiggy being innocent of killing through inaction means that jinlintai really is somewhere assassins can penetrate into. then jiggy's son really was killed by a force jiggy had no way of stopping. then, in this situation, jiggy really was powerless.

you can remove the ambiguity and argue the case either way: jiggy knew about the assassination and let it happen, jiggy legitimately knew nothing and could not have stopped the assassination. but the ambiguity makes this scenario more interesting to me. jiggy lives for the rest of his days uncertain if he chose to allow his son to die through inaction, or if he really was just weak enough to fail to protect his son. maybe jiggy's memories of the incident even manage to start distorting after a while, implying either one or the other depending on jiggy's own mental situation.

thus, when jiggy says "rusong had to die," he's uncertain if he's justifying his actions or delusionally coping with a reality he had no hand in making. when jiggy says "i killed my son," he's uncertain if he's even telling the truth or not.

ah well. this is basically original fiction at this point. it's just a potential scenario.

anyways, these are just a few scenarios based on various meta and fanfics of this subject ive read over the past few months. you can probably come up with all sorts of explanations. whatever you come up with, though, should be better than just blindly taking sect leader yao at his word.