#feel free to add to the discourse

[xceanlynx]

An ace perspective on Only Friends, sexuality, and purity culture.

Look, I'm not very good with meta, but I have to give my two cents here.

I love Only Friends. They've brought a perspective on queer culture that usually falls flat in most Thai BL series. The hookups, the cruising, the expectations of love and care... There are so many nuances they've explored, it really is a breath of fresh air.

But I have to say, as an ace person, I'm quite disappointed with the not-so-implicit moral standard they've set on characters based on their sexual experiences. Argue all you want, there's no way they didn't make it to be as "virgins are good, hoes are evil".

Look at episode one. One of the first quotes that really got to my mind was when Mew told Top that "he is not like Boston" (as in he can't do casual sex). I really got curious about that line. It could mean that 1. maybe he views sexuality differently — maybe he is on the ace spectrum (I was sooo for it); or 2. maybe he just isn't as sexual as his friend, not necessarily ace (also cool); or 3. maybe he views his virginity as a badge of honor, and thus is afraid to lose it to an almost stranger, hookup enthusiast like Top.

With a premise like OF, of exploring queer sexualities, I really thought option 1 or 2 were going to be it, and even if it was option 3, it was going to be a setup for, by the end, Mew understanding that, virgin or hoe, anyone can be good or bad. But then, episodes were being released, and now we only have 1 episode left and nothing really changed. Characters like Mew and Cheum still view sexual experience as a way to measure someone's worth.

There are two examples that I need to show here.

Cheum is supportive of her virgin friend hooking up with Top (when he already said he wasn't comfortable yet), while also shaming Boston for hooking up — of course, he isn't the virginal angel type.

(seriously, what's with this fixation on Mew's virginity?)

Like, boy I know you are still hurt, but what do you mean by saying that?

And there's the Nick situation. They really wanted us to see Nick, the hopeless romantic/stalker as the good guy, while seeing Boston, the one who does not want a serious relationship, as the bad guy. And as we approach the last episode, they might even pull one of the "hoe cures" and make Boston actually want a monogamous relationship with Nick now. (I say MAYBE, I'm writing this before ep 12 airs).

Yeah, Boston is a shitty friend. No one is questioning it. But none of his cruising behavior is the reason why I say that. His biggest mistake was sleeping with Top while he was actively pursuing Mew (if they were dating or not, that's up to you). His hooking up with multiple people, taking pictures of them, and even sleeping with Atom... none of these are mistakes on his part. Maybe not the wisest ideas, but not mistakes. None of these make him bad.

And you may ask, why does being ace have anything to do with it?

Because purity culture is harmful to everyone, sluts and virgins alike. Of course, there's nuance in everything: some may suffer more, and intersectionality also factors here. The ace spectrum is HUGE, with people having polar opposite opinions on sex and hookups. Some hate the idea of participating in all sexual activities, some tolerate it and some actually enjoy them very much. All of them are still ace.

So, when I see a series like OF (which many, many people wanted to see because of its raw, realistic perspective on sex) propagate a viewpoint that the virginal character is superior to the hoes, it really frustrates me.

Sexual experience does not make one mature, wise, or better than anyone else. Just like that, being inexperienced does not make one pure, enlightened, mature, or inherently better than anyone else. WHY DO WE JUDGE PEOPLE BASED ON SEXUAL EXPERIENCE? Sex is just an activity. Some do for leisure, some do for their partners, some do for having children and some don't do it at all. Are all of these people better or worse than the others? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

I'm going to be honest, I wasn't expecting much (or any) representation for aces in Only Friends. It still is a stigmatized orientation, and sometimes it's better to have nothing than to be represented badly. While I was expecting nothing, I really wasn't expecting this morality based on purity. I thought it was going to shine a light on hookup culture, not necessarily romanticizing it but not making it to be a bad thing either.

I don't really have a closing paragraph. I just saw the discourse and agree with basically everyone, but I hadn't seen an ace perspective (at least not one explicitly ace) on all of this. Sometimes allo (non-ace) people think we on the ace spectrum actually want this discourse of "virgin = good" to be popular, and while there may exist people like that, most of us just want to have our humanity not dictated by how many people we fuck.

[my-autism-adhd-blog]

Autistic Callum

[miitopia-cake]

I wish some aces would stop excluding other aces with complex sexual experiences. like I get why but you have to realize that being ace does not mean they don't enjoy sexual experiences and it's weird when you complain about allo people and boil it down to "people who have sexual experiences" and also shame people for their sex life and kinks as if your own community doesnt INCLUDE those people. because there are other aces out there who still masturbate, who feel sexually attracted to their own body, who barely experiences sexual attraction but still enjoys sex, who like consuming sexual media, who like sfw kink. being ace is so so much more complex than just "disliking sex". and also aromantic exclusionism in the same genre of posts is something i see a lot. especially aro allos. I hate hate hate seeing a community that SHOULD be inclusive boil down sexuality and exclude people.

[creeps-and-pasta]

creepypasta been around so long the discourse never changes its always one of these:

nooo you can't date the creepypastas because they'd murder you! anyway enjoy my super realistic and gritty creepypasta rewrite where Jeff the killer eats babies

character age-based shipping discourse. Ben is 12 except when he's weed smoking college student and can't be shipped with Jeff who's an adult except Jeff is also 12 or maybe 14. Tim can't be shipped with Toby because he looks older and Toby is only 16. except for when Toby is an adult.

^^^ ppl using the above point to try and justify shipping Sally with other characters

hey guys have you considered tagging ur nsfw or putting it under a readmore that way the hundreds of children in this fandom don't find out what Slenderman's dong looks like

your oc is dumb and you should be drawn and quartered because of this

your headcannons are dumb and you should be shot by firing squad because of this

you drew a popular character as a POC and now ppl are mailing you anthrax

hey guys did you ever notice the creators of some of these stories are....bad?

offenderman

[cupcraft]

I think why the the discourse around "don't being your cishet significant other to pride" bothers me is because you're going down three shitty rabbit holes:

1. How are you going to police this? Does everyone who goes to pride have to disclose their partners gender, sexuality, sexual history, relationship with gender expression, genitalia, etc. Before they're allowed to bring them to pride? -> you are being a cop rabbit hole

2. Pride is a protest and it always has been and will continue to be. -> the burden of change is on queer people and no cishet person is allowed to be in solidarity in fact we discourage this solidarity for some reason rabbit hole

3. You assume that for example a bisexual person dating a cishet person makes them and the relationship less queer rabbit hole.

That's why it pisses me off thanks. And for the record this isn't me saying that harm should be allowed at pride by any means but you really need to consider why exclusionary politic is bad and why it goes further than just what you think it does and why exclusionary talk around liberation and pride causes harm and makes you a fucking cop.

[tevanbuckley]

what do you think is the sweetest and most well written part of Buck and Tommy's relationship? When they kissed in the first episode they had any kind of meaningful interaction or when Tommy ditched Buck on the curb after their first date and Buck somehow ended up feeling like the asshole about it. If that's a sweet and well written relationship Eddie and Marisol are When Harry Met Sally.

Oh no! They kissed after one episode! How could I forget the only way to write a good on screen romance is to spend at least half a season having them dance around their feelings with enough space for the holy ghost?

And yeah tommy left buck (a grown man in his 30s btw) outside the restaurant, because rather than just not mention they were on a date, buck made up a very weird and uncomfortable lie. bffr that's a "yeah sorry, I just got a text my grandma died," level red flag. I'd have clocked out at the ally comment, and tommy managed to turn that around into flirting!

But anyway thanks for the opportunity to list some sweet bucktommy details so far:

just buck's entire face when he talks to/about tommy, that man is smitten! ((x) if you need visual proof). he has the world's biggest crush on his boyfriend and i want him to be insufferable about it!

tommy's little "so that was okay?" after their kiss kills me every time, it's gentle but also confident and forward (which i think compliments buck's personality very well)

I mean tommy felt so bad about being the cause of problems between buck and eddie, he went to buck's house in person to apologise.

speaking of gentle. Evan. I need, need someone to pick tim minear's brain about the decision to have tommy consistently call him evan, the implications are driving me insane.

the way their relationship is tied up with, imo, one of the most interesting coming out arcs i've seen on tv in years. bi buck is very special to me and like it or not tommy is a part of that.

I love the detail of buck getting tommy's order wrong, they could've easily gone the "omg, you got my order right the first time, we're meant to be!" route, but imo there's something refreshing about showing love as this thing you have to work to build vs something that magically happens to you.

and the invisible string/full circle symbolism potential is insane. The fact chimney saved tommy's life, the parallel of tommy needing to leave the 118 to find himself which in turn left a spot in the exact place buck needed to do the same. The way buck is the reason that chimney meets maddie and then years later chim (potentially) returns the favour. They've stumbled into a writing goldmine here and i think they'd be fools to waste it.

look i'll readily admit i've no clue where they might be taking bucktommy, tbh i don't think tim minear knows, but they've sure as hell crammed a lot of potential into those 2 + a bit episodes. That's what people are responding to.

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

“catra is a complex poc” fuck that. here are some ACTUAL poc animated characters who are just as, if not more complex than catra. (pt. 2)

mako (the legend of korra) • mixed (japanese and chinese)

min-gi park (infinity train) • korean-canadian

zuko (avatar the last airbender) • japanese

caitlyn kiramman (arcane) • bi-racial (east asian and presumably scottish)

miles morales (spiderverse) • puerto rican, afro-latino

amaya (the dragon prince) • east asian (ambiguous)

marshal lee (fionna and cake) • half-black (technically, marceline is black too but i figured marshal would be considered better representation)

carmen sandiego (carmen sandiego) • hispanic (argentinean-mexican)

toph (avatar the last airbender) • chinese

callum (the dragon prince) • half asian (ambiguous)

[simplydnp]

hey there!

I kind of consider you the resident dnp expert (at least in dnp culture) so I wanted your opinion on a question that's been building for a while now.

What are the boundaries for dnp now?

There are so many things that I feel have changed even in the last four years: writing smutty rpf was Gross and Weird, along with art along that line, speculating about their relationship was ABSOLUTELY a no-go, all things that I see happening on Tumblr now. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing!! I'm just acknowledging things have changed over time. They're different people now and so are we, and the "we know you know" era is lots of fun.

I was browsing reddit today (bad idea, do not recommend) and came across a post from a new Phannie asking if DnP were in a relationship. And while I agree that we cannot say for absolute certain that they are, the responses had a VERY different vibe than on here, emphasizing how bad the speculation was (true) and essentially saying "don't even think about that, just enjoy their content." (or something to that extent.)

Which... is very different from this here website in which we joke about them being horney for each other constantly lmao.

Being a very rules-driven person, I like expectations to be made abundantly clear for pretty much everything. So that's why I want to ask: Is there a line here? Are we crossing that line? How defined is that line? (All of this, of course, I recognize is your opinion and yours alone, and if this is posted I encourage anyone else to share their two-cents in a respectful way.)

Obviously, trying to find out where they live/things like that is very clearly crossing a boundary. But is there some sort of limit or boundary I (and tbh the rest of the phandom), in your opinion, should be keeping in mind?

thanks xx

hi!

'resident expert' is a hefty title, i'm just here trying my best!

'what are the boundaries for dnp now?' is really a great question. cause the thing is, we used to know. there used to be a fairly well-defined and mostly agreed upon line, and ever since the dapg revival in particular, the line keeps moving.

i'll be honest, i never really saw phanfic as rpf, even though it is. my stance on phanfic is the same as dnps: it's a beautiful expression of art and creativity and is so, so important. they've always been pro-fic (even though we subjected them to some absolutely horrific crack fics), so i don't think 'smutty' fic has ever been gross or too far. they've given their blessing, and, as the conversation has been in fandom communities the last few years, rpf isn't 'for' the people in them, it's for the fans. so i digress.

art is much the same way. they love art! they even included art of them kissing in a tumblr tag video back in the day, so to say that's not allowed especially after they're out is kind of crazy to me.

i think the line with stuff like that was showing it directly to dnp--tagging them in explicit stuff, that kind of thing. but creating it? go for it! it's always been a green light. (i think fans have previously overpoliced this and we lost a lot of great fic, art, and community members over it)

browsing reddit is always a Choice. i've never participated on dnp reddit before but i am aware that it is an entirely different space than here. something that's important, i think (and i think you think this too as you're asking about them), is to respect the fandom rules of the place you partcipate in. tumblr is generally one of the most phan-positive places on the internet, especially publicly facing. we make a lot of relationship jokes, particularly because we run on the assumption it's already true, based on what they've both said publicly (mostly dan).

i won't comment on reddit specifically just because i'm not a part of the community there, but the speculation about dnp online was a Lot for a long time. but the worst part of it was the stalking, the digging into personal lives, the contacting family members--that is what was bad. dnp have always had a connection--and, honestly, they kind of love flexing it and kind of always have. they absolutely play into things now, but they certainly did even way before coming out too. i think a certain level of speculation was to be expected, especially in that era of online fandom. but it wasn't just the 'teenage girls' who cared, the media did too, and so did many others.

i think one of the biggest differences now is 1 the awareness of 'our' past and trying to make up for it, and 2 the broader societal conversations about parasocial relationships.

you see this reflected on the snippets ive seen from dnp reddit and dnp twitter. they tend to be Very 'cautious' about the words they say, often undercutting perfectly reasonable statements with 'but whatever their relationship is'. on one hand, they don't want to cross a line, and i can respect that. on the other hand... it's 2024 babes. they just put out merch of them holding hands. dan's directly, intentionally, and explicitly called phil a bottom on dapg. they reacted to all of the pinofs, made jokes about 'theyre touching', and even joked about the tackle being 'wrestling 👀'. dan posted half-naked catboy pics and showed us phil was taking them. the 'watch your step babygirl' tweet & their reactions to it. phil is credited in WAD. they're making threesome jokes about themselves as a unit. i could go on and on.

to me, there's a few things that have 'moved the line' for us, so to speak.

1 - DAPG returning. for the last few years they specifically were not a duo (for projects) anymore. (and no, not because they hated each other). they just weren't. they wanted to focus on their goals and projects. they didn't have to resurrect dapg, but they chose to. marketing and money aside, they knew that if this went over well, it would well and truly revive the 'dan and phil' brand again. it would be specifically returning to being a duo in the public eye. (however they've also fully embraced this in all aspects, including merch, videos, and general attitude)

2 - pinof reacts. even though they'd been out since 2019, we hadn't had regular joint content from them since before that, therefore, while they had become more comfortable with themselves and their 'outness', we hadn't (in terms of them making explicit gay jokes together). so i really think dnp had to de-fang a lot of the 'theyre touching' of it all, because we didn't really know where we stood on it anymore. i think they succeeded, too. we couldn't be here, with the content of the last 3 months, without them tackling it head on (well, as head on as they're want to do).

3 - dapc. genuinely another big shift. they did this for the real fans. purely a passion project, and a specific choice in doing the handhold. they know what we're like. and this wasn't a brief, unplanned, unscripted moment. it's a specifically blocked out scene. they know it's opening a door, and they chose to. this is doubled by the fucking iconic merch selling, and furthered by phil's twitter likes of arguably romantic phanart, and then dan's full straddle like.

even throughout the current 6 months of revival, the line has moved. i don't know where it will settle. dnp keep moving it, in my opinion, and, genuinely, i don't think it's going to leave much to the imagination. as you say, obviously not the stalking or the contacting, but beyond that? especially here on tumblr? i wouldn't get too worried. obviously people will have their opinions, but as long as you're generally respectful and recognize that humans will see your posts and humans interact with them, i think you're good.

my rule of thumb is anything they intentionally put on the table, we can joke about or at the same level. but in terms of art/fic? go off, live your dreams. dan and phil would want you to.

[mortisbane]

I meet your Sora working part time jobs to pay for his expensive apartment in Shibuya and raise you Riku working part time jobs to pay for all the Kingdom Hearts merch with Sora on it he keeps buying

[lanaevyssmoved]

i wrote this in replies to a mutual but actually it deserves to be its own post that gets expanded on

gonna be real fandoms generalised interpretation of gale is ooc

lets be honest, hes the normal ass brown haired white guy that looks so like all the other brown haired white guys people (you know who) obsess over and they all do the same thing. lets turn him into generic very nice man who loves us muchly and will fall in line perfectly with our happily ever after headcanons. its not about /gale/, its about him aesthetically fitting the mold perfectly

lets ignore his flaws and his hubris and his mental illness and his chronic pain and how he gets pissed off at his students and how obsessive he is over his research and how his passions in life fall in line perfectly with 'hermit man that has no social circle and no children'

basically. woobified gale is real and i hate it

[bitter-hibiscus]

As someone who is part of the generation Z of queer people, I see the statement “Neopronouns are harmful to the community” as a borderline cry for help. To me, it’s clear as day that it’s an attempt to cater to cishets’ wants for the LGBT+ community. A desperate need to “prove” to cishets that “hey, I’m human too! Look at me, I’m just like you! Not like those weird queer people out there!”

It’s more saddening than infuriating, at this point, because we’ve all been there. We’ve all been 12 years old watching the news about a teenage boy who got stoned to death for being gay and thinking this might be me. Not this could’ve been me, not oh poor him, but this will be me if I don’t act exactly how they want me to. And you internalize those feelings and those thoughts to a point where your only escapism is playing-pretend that cishets will ever see you as their equal. It’s a fake blanket of safety younger queer folk need to hide under to be able to process the world they live in.

As a result of those thoughts, gen Z has made it abundantly clear that they disregard any of the history of our community, of who we are. We as a whole barely research about stonewall or the aids crisis, much less things that are not such “mainstream” stories, because if we admit to being oppressed, we’re just looking at cishets in the eyes and saying “I’m never going to be like you.”, and it’s really hard to make ourselves understand that that’s a good thing. We’re not equal and we never will be because straight people didn’t have to riot to get human rights and they did not have a disproportionally high mortality rate due to unsafe sex.

So all I’m asking from the other queer gen Z out there is that you try to understand that not being straight is what makes our community a much-needed safe space, and catering to them will only ever damage us internally. Take the neopronouns and xenogenders and microlabeling with pride as big, long, thick middle finger and a loud ass fuck you to all straight people who have ever made you feel like you had to be something you weren’t. Celebrate our ability to express ourselves this way because far too many of us have died to make it possible to do so. Don’t disrespect your own identity so that the straights can digest your existence.

[conarcoin]

ok this was a shower thought but like. do you guys ever think about how weirdly unnuanced the discourse surrounding shipping in mcyt spaces has been for ages until fairly recently (and even now to an extent)

like i feel like it would be common sense to assume that when ccs talk about just. "shipping", they're usually thinking of the people who write fanfics about them and their real life friends, theorize about their relationships, and spam in their chats/donations/comments... rather than someone drawing their fake minecraft skins holding hands.

to the point where most of the time when elaborated on, the ccs almost always SAY that the real life stuff is their issue and not the fake minecraft stuff because the fake minecraft stuff doesn't matter and isn't real.

the issue with irl shipping always stemmed from people who would harass ccs about it. that isn't... an element in shipping fake little minecraft guys. because nobody there wants the people behind the screen to get together.

like. i feel very odd still that even back in 2019 jschlatt specifically said on stream when asked about shipping that he didn't like people "writing stuff that would be inappropriate in an irl context", at a point in time where actual genuine irl shipping and harassment and spam over such was a huge problem, and that that part was completely cut out from how people in the fandom describe the clip.

and now that exact clip is still used to this day to argue over shit like whether it's okay to write fanfiction of schlatt's dsmp character being romantically involved with a character he was canonically engaged to (c!quackity). like that is just insane to me

[terezicaptor]

if you look up poly morning crew on twitter it's literally all people saying that they hate it 💔 saying that fics would be so much better if it was fitpac or frubbo..... theres literally hundreds of those on a3o and like 10 of fitpacbo I DONT GET IT

they also think liss is evil for shipping tubhalo lmao.

I think they say they have a problem with the age gap relationship (fit & tubbo - 14 years, tubbo & pac - 8 years). But. Wellllll. Let's look at a few popular ships

Quackity & Luzu - 15 years

Pierre & Maxo - 8 years

Missa & Roier - 8 years

Foolish & Vegetta - 10 years

(note: I have no beef w these ships whatsoever, just using them as example lol)

Idk. Maybe they just don't know the age gaps 😁 I'm sure they're taking issue w poly morning crew for this specific reason and not just bc they want a moral reason to dislike a ship. Instead of just saying they don't like the ship like a normal person 😁

[webowzr]

the way you people project onto ford is ABSOLUTELY INSANE!! and the way you use that blatant projection to piss on others who do the same is also crazy.

ford wasn't a good person pre-portal. while yes, characters like bill are way worse, ford doesnt get absolved of his failings just because bill tricked him. ford is /incredibly/ self obsessed, and through his journal entries you can see just how self-absorbed he is. he doesn't care about how his actions could benefit others (its why he's so against his journal being published) instead he only cares about the glory HE could derive from his actions. he waxes poetic about "not wanting to be another tesla" and the book explicitly compares ford to icarus. fidd's actually goes out of his way to PLEAD WITH HIM to stop the portal, because fidd's now knows it's dangerous and warns him, but stanford is so blinded by his own self-importance he ignores fiddleford until reality slaps him in the face and shows him how wrong he is.

speaking of manipulation, ford manipulates and lies to fiddleford CONSTANTLY. ford lies about where he got the idea for the project, he lies about who he's working with, ignores fiddleford if fidds doesn't comply with his wants, and is constantly paranoid about fidds 'true intentions' (lol) .

STOP woobifying ford, stop pretending ford is some innocent guy. its quite frankly disconcerning to see how many of you guys claim he's ur fav or whatever but dont like the flaws that make him a compelling narrator. i LIKE ford as a slightly immoral person who grows and changes, whose willing to do ANYTHING for what he wants even if it isn't the best move, a 'smart-guy' who uses questionable tactics because part of him does believe it's the best thing to do.

ALL THIS BEING SAID, characterize ur ford however you want. you want to make him more of a victim? go for it!! you want to project onto him? feel free!! just dont pretend like ur characterization is completely correct without facts to back it up. and dont shit on peoples ships (srsly u guys r getting mega petty nowadays) because fiddauthor or billford or whatever isnt particularly healthy either!!

[cupcraft]

"AI won't compete with talented artists"

Is my least favorite argument around AI art/writing/etc.

Firstly it poses these big issues for me: you don't understand how making art works and that people develop as an artist, that there's an easy way to place the line of who are "good talentrd artists". But there's one I want to go into more than these two issues and thats the by saying this you assume capitalists and the system we have gives a shit about "real good artists".

Capitalism doesn't care if artists can be talented or good at what they do. They don't care if the artist had a large portfolio, has worked on big named projects, is highly revered or respected, or even that they're resume is longer than most. They don't. The goal of capitalism is profit which relies heavily on worker exploitation. And with the advent of the unionization Renaissance and the writer actors strike plus much more, you can kind of piece together why talent isn't going to matter with ai art. Unionization and worker solidarity is the anthesis to workers exploitation. Solidarity is an attempt to remove power of capitalists to exploit. So, why did the execs during the writers strike/actors strike want ai so bad and kept putting their feet down? Why is ai art so promising to capitalists?

Well here's an article describing the excuse of why they want ai art

But in reality this really translates to "instead of exploiting workers (ones that will unionize/go on strike) we can replace and steal their work and avoid issues with a human worker". The propaganda is always "it will help innovation and creativity" the company line of all capitalism. But capitalism doesn't actually want to advance or be transformative or even innovate (source is general topic not just ai art). They want to maintain power and profit.

Talented artists (if you can even pick a definable line for that) will not survive in a world that does not carefully regulate AI and protect their creative property. They just won't. Automation of work can never work under a framework of capitalism where peoples jobs are tied to their Healthcare and livability.

People assume that business has their best interests at heart and many assume "well it doesn't affect me ofc bc I enjoy making ai art,". And it's a fools errand. The foot in the door to art, to automating and ridding human artists in the pursuance of profit and cheap efficiency is bad and it will get worse. The foot in the door with no regulations will affect other jobs, other humans, other fields. (Take ridding cashiers at grocery stores as a recent example. The source is a bit pro in its tone sadly, but I thought it a good article to read about the concept. And how ai forces customers to be free training for the ai so they can sell u more shit lmfao). And as more and more jobs are replaced with no regulation or power given to workers, economic disparity will get worse. And you having fun with ai art don't see that the foot in thendoor is dangerous and you don't care bc it currently doesn't affect you.

And this isn't to fear monger. Or to say technology is bad. What it is to say is stop placing your trust into businesses whose goal is efficiency and profit and exploitation above all else and stand in solidarity with your fellow human. Beg for regulations and control and protections for their sake and yours.

[dappersautismcreature]

gonna tentatively say that i think sometimes people (cough twitter cough) overreact to small hiccups when it comes to cultures clashing in the qsmp. you can't expect people to be perfect, if you have that mentality and attack ccs for any interactions you don't give them time to grow or change.

and its not like theres been any really huge racism incidents between ccs, as far as i can tell just some accidental weirdness and culture differences, its LEARNING you make MISTAKES WHEN YOU ARE LEARNINGGGG

im not saying dont criticize ccs for the ways in which they are actually being rude, racist or xenophobic, im saying, A. dont write off their potential for change and B. dont underestimate the fact that they are an adult, with adult friends, who can correct them if need be.

and if you think this is about any substantial racist incidents, i am not talking about that, im talking about people jumping down bad's throat about when he jokingly called etoiles uncultured. im talking about when a cc mispronounces something, or guesses wrong, or takes the easy way out when learning and uses a translator, or when someone says something thats offensive in another language by accident.

again, mistakes, learning, change, they are adults they don't need you to defend them.