#pro/antiship discourse

[drowning-lakes]

i have more to say because i still cant believe you people managed to create IDENTITY DISCOURSE FOR FANFICTION

it just pisses me off like i actively lose braincells each time i see people engage in this conversation like its not complete fucking bullshit. its fanfiction for fucks sake all of you need to grow up. why are people acting like they're the fucking messiah because of how they ship things. "my ships are all exclusively 21+ age above, same age canon ships!!!1!/"i only ship toxic problematic ships with chernobyl type tags" OH MY GOD DO YOU WANT A COOKIE??? A GOLD MEDAL!?? SHOULD WE INVITE BELLA HADID!??????

not to mention how ppl are literally calling in other ppl's jobs and whatnot. "they're weird online!1!!1" WHO CARES OH MY GOD WHO ACTUALLY GIVES A SHIT YOUR FUCKING FRIENDS ARE WEIRD, YOUR FAMILY IS WEIRD, YOUR TEACHERS, YOUR PROFESSORS AND COWORKERS ARE ALL FUCKING COVERT FREAKS!!!! GET OVER YOURSELF!!! "ppl shouldnt judge other ppl's ships!!1!1!" No you freak, peope can and WILL judge you but it shouldnt be normal for them to harrass you or make call out posts or whatever the fuck. But lets not kid ourselves if you write weird shit people wont like you and will think "THATS FUCKING WEIRD"

"there's minors here!!!1!1!" i promise you the minors are FINE. unless the fandom is fucking bluey or dora the explorer, they will survive!!!! most fanfiction authors do an amazing job of tagging and warning you what the fic is about, if a 16 y/o clicks on the dead dove smut fic its their fault at that point! this isnt victim blaming because as someone who was that 16 y/o i knew damn well what i was clicking on and i gave zero fucks!!! ppl act like teenagers have no clue about life and internet porn.

everyone on this awful ass site and tiktok acts so "holier than thou" as if in real life they're not the most annoying people possible. which includes me btw just to not get it twisted. but this entire discourse boils down to the simple saying MIND YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS!!!! BE REALISTIC!!!

[bewareofdeaddove]

Once you start harassing people over their tastes in fiction, you've gone too far.

You should not be sending anon hate.

You should not be telling people to kill themselves.

You should not be contacting people's family members, job, or school.

You should not be sending people gore.

You should not be telling people that they deserve their trauma.

You should not be attacking people over liking something fictional. At that point, you're the problem. Not the person making things you don't like, YOU. Harassment is never acceptable.

[kaeyaswifefromsnezhnaya]

"fiction affects reality", then what about fiction about good? If we start creating content about a better life, will it change anything in reality? It would be nice

But I doubt it

[curiositysavesthecat]

*Proship is an anti harassment / anti censorship stance. It's the belief that people are allowed to ship / enjoy fictional subjects that are taboo (rape, incest, pedophilia, etc) as long as it's fiction and all the trigger warnings are properly tagged. You can be proship and be disgusted by these taboo stuff, as long as you mind your own business and don't harass people who do enjoy them. (Your kink is not my kink and that's okay)

Anti-ship means the belief that people who enjoy taboo stuff, that is fiction, are red flags and should be called out / criticized / harassed for their enjoyment in said fiction.

This poll was submitted to us and we simply posted it so people could vote and discuss their opinions on the matter. If you’d like for us to ask the internet a question for you, feel free to drop the poll of your choice in our inbox and we’ll post them anonymously (for more info, please check our pinned post).

[sparkling-pink-lemonade]

Saw a post of an anti saying that they are leaving AO3, as they are too uncomfortable to post their fics there now. The reason? They found out one of their long time readers was a proshipper, despite their fics having proship dni. And how "that includes silent readers too, I don't want you all looking at my content."

My brother in christ, you are posting on the fiction freedom site. The proshipping site. Dnis aren't god damn restraining orders. They are one tool in helping you display your boundaries. It's still on you to enforce your boundaries. You post something publicly, you forfeit your ability to regulate who can view your work. If you're obsessive enough, you can regulate who actually interacts with your work by stalking each person in the kudos list, comments, or bookmarks and then blocking snyone you don't like, but you do not get a say on who may silently read your posts. Not unless you private your work and only show it to specific people.

And if you don’t want proshippers to interact, get off the profic site.

[the-eternalized-constellation]

Hey retard, pedophile killer back again, if you support pedophilia and dark ships in any way, THAT MAKES YOU A PEDO!!!

I don’t know what your one fucking braincell fighting for 5th place against your fucking ego can’t comprehend in that but hey, at least that gives us an excuse to doxx and curb stop you :)

Don’t be surprised when your address magically ends up somewhere on the internet pedo 🖕

Lmfao I'm crying the pedophile killer.

Also the slur! Get the bingo card!

Dude has no idea what pedophile means and that's true. Pedophilia is a paraphilia, which have been demonized since the beginning. Pedophilia ≠ Child Predation. Obviously, when acted alone, pedophilia is wrong, and very bad, and can very much turn into child predation.

Pedophilia is a sexual desire, and can very much be intrusive thoughts for a person. Some people don't want to be pedophiles, but are stuck with intrusive thoughts. The more you say "kill all pedophiles" you're going to harm innocent people and children. Why? Because you make the innocent ones hide away and not search for help, and they'll either kill themselves, or hurt a child, no longer being innocent. If you let people know what pedophilia truly is, then they can get help, they can cope and recover, and no one gets hurt in the end!

Also, you know dark ships are not always based around pedophilia, right? It's important to me that you know that.

Your threats mean nothing when you're anonymous. 🩷

[purpurship]

ANTIS, THIS POST IS NOT FOR YOU, AND THIS POST IS NOT AN INVITATION FOR YOU TO STALK THROUGH MY BLOG AND BE A CREEP.

~~~~~

You can't call yourself proship and then turn around and start yelling about "bad fiction."

There's no such thing. Not if you're proship anyways. Antis "know" all about "bad fiction."

If you want to be progressive, then you HAVE to put aside your ick. You have to stop equating correlation with causation.

Because what you draw or write about has no relation to what you actually believe or what kind of person you are, we've all established that right? Lolishos aren't pedophiles right? Furries aren't zoophiles right?

So logically that would apply to RPF and its enjoyers too right???

What you write about in RPF isn't what you want to happen to the people in real life. It's fiction. Real person fiction.

Like, I do not want Tommy to suffer and get groomed by Phil in real life, but I think it's hot fictionally. Can you please stop siding with the antis?

If you feel uncomfortable, you can leave. Even if you find RPF made of you personally. You can leave. Nothing actually happened to you irl because of the fic, and the person who made it does not automatically want that to happen to you either. (Sidenote: if your abuser made RPF of your pain then this is because they're an abuser, not because of the RPF. Don't punish everybody who likes RPF just because somebody who hurt you likes it too. Please.)

~~~~~

ANTIS DO NOT INTERACT.

[barbequeerchips]

"old fandom" is proship. suffer. 💞 if you don't like something block it. if you don't wanna read something don't. ao3 has filtering. ao3 is an archive. proship means you're for shipping, it doesn't mean you have to look at what you hate.

a lot of you guys went into fandom spaces back in 2020 lockdown expecting normal/casual fans and are surprised when weird freaks are about. we're fiction freaks. we do what we want here. normies invading fandom spaces was the downfall of fandom, and i mean that seriously and unironically.

fandom lives despite this, that being said.

anyways proship (aka old fandom) and similar are welcome in the selfship community and you aren't a fucking predator for liking fictional characters. goodbye have a good day you and your f/o is canon.

[urfavisaminor]

Shipping ABUSE is supporting ABUSE. a short opinion piece

(P.S. BEFORE ANY OF YOU ASK this is NOT SATIRE!!!!!!! I AM MAKING ARGUMENTS THAT ARE VERY SERIOUS AND MEANY TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY, listen to ur ant queen! blindly. THIS IS A VERY VERY VERY VEYR VERY VEYR EGRYR VERY VEYR VEYR VERY SERIOUS BLOG!!!!!!!!!!!!!) I'm not satire I'm not dairy I am serious and smart you people just can't handle my genius I'm so dmart if you disagree with me ur wrong and I'm right

Noq to the main topic, why peoshippers are hitler, while yes, I’m talking about fictional characters, don’t you get it?????? If you write about characters yelling at each other, having a small argument or even an "enemies to lovers"/"rivals to lovers" you’re basically telling your readers that it’s okay to let their partners gasloghtt and hitthem IRL!!!!!! You’re ruining lives with your degenerate scum smut! ITS YOUR FAULT AND I HATE YOU

Bakudeku is proship btw (proship problematic ship) because Bakaga told Deeki to khs once in middle school and was a meanie

“But it’s just fiction!” WELL SO IS NAZI PROPAGANDA so if ur proship just know you're comparable to actual nazis and are clearly racist and ableist and homophobic and transphobic. What’s your next excuse? You’re LITERALLY training people to ignore red flags.

And before anyone says, “It’s just a ship!” let me remind you that words have power. Your abusive ship fanfic lemon could be THE reason someone’s cousin’s roommate's aunt's co-worker's friend decides to stay with their toxic boyfriend. That will happen AND IT WILL BE YOUR RESPONSABILITY. IT *IS* YOU JOB TO HANDLE OTHER PEOPLES TRIGGERS, MAKING THIS CONTENT MAKES YOU HUST AS BAD AS ACTUAL ABUSERS.

NORMALIZING ABUSE IS ABUSE. there's no other motive you would ship this otherwise!

None of you care about real victime (the only real victims are the ones who dont use this shit to "cope"").

In conclusion: You’re all enabling abusers only comparable to the literal devil. Go outside and touch grass. Preferably the kind that makes you itch.

ur wrong and I'm right !

I am so smart so smart so smart

It's okay for me to like problematic media thought! I like problematic ships CORRECTLTy ur just consume it not correctly

try doing it correctly next time

I am not hypocritical

no

[sinfreeshipping]

"i hate shipping rarepairs. my otp only has 500 fics on ao3"

shut the fuck up and get over yourself. some of us have REAL struggles in life. my otp has ZERO fics on ao3 and im the ONLY PERSON posting about them on tumblr

[kaeyaswifefromsnezhnaya]

Anti talk so much about the influence of media content on people, but they themselves win this competition by influencing these very people with aggressive propaganda of their beliefs so that people really begin to believe them

They always say that something like "you know, I read that incest fanfic and it was so realistic and enticingly written that it made me want to fuck my brother and my father 😜" is going to happen, but they don't want to talk about the fact that things like this — "hey, you read that incest fanfic? oh my god, that means you definitely want to fuck your family. you definitely do, don't argue, don't argue, I know you do. you read that fanfic, you do! you're so gross~" are already happening

The media, even if they show some events, even if they do it in a romantized way, still do not talk about these things in such a direct, convincing text as the anti do. "You, you personally, and all of you, absolutely, OBLIGATORILY," they say, not understanding, or perfectly understanding their evil work, that they are doing exactly what they are supposedly condemning. Their whole movement contradicts itself.

[whereserpentswalk]

A whole 90 years later and antiships have the exact same principles.

[sasheneskywalker]

Behind the Curtain: Anti-Shipping is a Bad Faith Position

[purpurship]

Debunking some claims antis make about being """just as oppressed(?)""" as us:

"Proshippers harassed me (an anti)!"

Just curious, did you maybe go into their space first? Did you first call their fanfic "degenerate" or their art "pedo bait?"

And what did this so-called harassment you experienced look like? Because I have never seen any proshipper say anything even close to some of the shit antis have said to me unless they're xenosatanists or something (as in, they said that shit because they think real kids can consent, not because they like fiction). I've literally been cyberstalked by antis before, including some who said they want me (a minor) to get raped.

"Proshippers are racist!"

Okay, most of us don't believe in cancelling entire fandoms, we can separate the author from their works. That's not racist. That's like saying every American is a racist because we still live in a country built by slaves.

And I would love for every anti that claims that we're racist to look at their own community and how it treats any fandoms that doesn't speak English. I would love for them to look at how the famously antiship Bluesky treats Japanese users.

"Antis are a minority! Proshippers dominate fandom!"

I only have to look at what Kyle Carrozza, the creator of Mighty Magiswords and a convicted pedophile, did to his disabled proship coworker (turned all their coworkers against her for making "problematic" art on Twitter until she got blacklisted from the animation industry, almost costing her life), or look at the wholeass Anti-Vivziepop Hate Club to know this is false af.

It doesn't just stop there though.

You also have the demonization of yaoi and fujoshis, the vilification of Harry Potter fans just because their creator is an ass, the cancellation of Springtrap and Delilah because the creator of a comic about a child murderer getting redeemed made some art of said child murderer noncon-ing a child (the murder was totally fine though!?), the fucking mess that is the Mouthwashing fandom, and moreeeee...

Antis, unless you want to quit being hypocrites, just fuck off. This post ain't for you.

[sophieinwonderland]

Ok firstly ghost, you are a cishet neurotypical white man sit your privileged ass down.

Secondly, I do think there is a genuine discussion on the censorship of fetishization. Because undoubtedly f*ta porn does fetishize real intersex people and real trans women. And we really can’t say “well people know it’s not true” because they don’t. They don’t know it’s not true.

Personally, my take on the whole thing, (as just one trans woman) is that, f*ta content is primarily harmful because it’s the only mainstream representation of the idea. Perhaps in a world that recognizes intersex people do in fact exist, the content could be seen as more acceptable. But unfortunately in the climate we live in, it’s hard to divorce the fetish from the real word fetishization.

(And also you don’t get to say anything because you exist in the second most privileged bracket)

Yikes!

Ignoring the pluralphobia, fakeclaiming and malgendering... where do you even get the idea that we're neurotypical?

I've talked a lot about us being autistic. (Especially when talking about how I don't care if some people are transautistic, and think that's yet another distraction issue wasting energy of marginalized people by focusing them inward.)

The idea that this porn somehow simultaneously fetishizes both intersex people and trans women, despite being neither is just wild!

Secondly, I do think there is a genuine discussion on the censorship of fetishization.

No! There really isn't!

Because censorship of futa porn leads to censorship of trans porn which leads to censorship of gay porn. Most on the Right think queer porn should be illegal because they hate queer people. If you could get even 10% of people on the Left to think queer porn is bad because of fetishization, the Right will have enough support to ban it.

There is no merit at all in this discussion!!!

There is no merit to pushing censorship because any attempt will be playing into the hands of the Enemy and giving them exactly what they want.

It costs NOTHING to let people make and consume their futanari porn in peace, while trying to censor it would lay the groundwork for mass censorship of all queer adult content.

Since you decided to fakeclaim and misgender me with this ask, I don't see any reason to try to be polite or respectful. So let me be as blunt and direct as I can:

The enemy is coming for your rights while you are happily handing them over and thanking them for the privilege. And you are too fucking stupid to see it!

Puritanical nonsense covering itself in a rainbow flag is still puritanical nonsense.

[urfavisaminor]

if ur not an anti you're actively harming csa victims btw it doesn't matter if ur a victim urself ur victim hood was discarded the moment u looked at those characters and decided to pair them up !!!!!