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daydreamerwonderkid · 1 year

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Me, after doing 15 minutes of excessive googling on every Batfam member's birthday only to then realize I've accidentally missed the majority of them this year, and then also finding out that people are still aggressively debating over whether Bruce's birthday is April 7 or February 19, Dick's birthday happens 3-6x throughout the year, and Stephanie might have just popped into existence for all that DC cares:

Batfam birthday dates btw for anyone who needs them are listed beneath the cut:

DISCLAIMER: DC is notorious for being super inconsistent with everything and I am a mere tadpole caught in the tidal wave of DC's ocean. This post will be regularly updated with edits and corrections so please do not use it as word of law, I am begging you.

Update (8/24/23): To keep things more simple and easier for everyone I am going to start categorizing the birth dates I've collected into 3 categories.

-Most popular: Self-explanatory. These are the birth dates that have been canonized and confirmed by DC and are also more wildly celebrated by the fandom. Typically, this should be the first result you see when you google the character's birthday. But not always because DC sucks ass.

-Other date(s): These are the additional birth dates I come across that have been canonized in some form with multiple sources, but are not as wildly celebrated or popularized by DC and/or the fandom. Why am I including them here? Mostly because I don't want people coming in saying I forgot a date. But also because if I have to see this mess, then y'all have too as well.

-Potential but unconfirmed date(s): This is where I will put all the other additional dates I find, but specifically those that are lacking in complete sources or seem to be highly debated and scrutinized.

Also fun emoji ranking guide for me and me alone:

👑👑: Queen Shit. Characters with a consistent and simple birth date(s). Can absolutely do no wrong.

👑😮‍💨: In the Running. Characters who don't have a set birth date, but the mess is minor and completely DC's fault. They shouldn't have to be punished for DC's crimes.

🤡🤡: Gtfo. Shit is so inconsistent and stupidly messy that it's making me lose my shit. I'm putting DC and the characters on trial for this bullshit.

👑Alfred Pennyworth👑

Most popular: August 18

Other date(s): June 27 or August 10

Potential but unconfirmed date(s): September 19 (fml)

(Yes, I'm including Terry, fuck you lol

Also SERIOUSLY WTF is up with so many of these August birthdays!!!! Fuck, was everyone just getting crazy BUSY in November!!!! What's going on in the DC universe that is making November of all months the HORNY MONTH????!!!!)

(Mini update ((8/18/23)): Well, I just found out that apparently June 27th 2023 is also a highly debated birth date for Terry. As is August 10 2023/2024 and August 18 2023/2024. I even saw a mention of September 19 2023, but I don't know how credible that source actually is. I'm just putting it here because I'm losing my mind and I don't want someone to pop in and say I forgot it omfg I'm dying

I'm just ... why? Why is it so hard to just commit to one month and one date. I'm not even concerned about the exact year. Just commit to ONE, man.

Excuse me while I march over to DC HQ and burn the whole place to the ground iswtfg)

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of these. I have a massive headache now and am open to any suggestions or clarifications y'all have to offer.

Also, I'm going to fist fight Dick in a Denny's parking lot.

Update (8/17/23): So a mini post that I meant to use as a way to vent how insane Dick was making me somehow blew up way more than I ever expected it to, and now I feel obligated to clarify again that I am open to any corrections and additional info that anyone has to offer.

I'm saying this because I've noticed people reblogging this post for actual Batfam bday references and someone already pointed out I fucked up Tim's bday and now I feel bad for everyone who reblogged this post prior to that edit.

It's probably just the anxiety talking, but yeah I just wanted to put that out there.

Also justice for Stephanie Brown! She deserves to have her own special day and if I have to bully DC into giving her a canon birthday, then you bet your ass I fucking will.

(And to all of y'all who are encouraging Dick to keep running his side scam business, I just have this to say: There's an empty Denny's parking lot somewhere out there just waiting for you, too lol)

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david-talks-sw · 2 months

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The OTHER type of Star Wars fan

We've already covered (through this longer post and this addendum) that research shows George wasn't that involved or interested in the derivative material of the Star Wars franchise, also known as the Expanded Universe (EU). Aside from approving a few points, he let Howard Roffman and Lucasfilm Licensing handle it.

He is the first to say that he ain't as knowledgeable about Star Wars lore as we fans are.

Thing is... he's also not as passionate as we are.

Recently, I was watching some Q&A videos of George R.R. Martin, the author of Game of Thrones... and it occurred to me:

Martin is what most Star Wars fans wish Lucas was.

Think about it.

He's a talented writer who likes to focus on morally "gray" characters and complex political plotlines,

who created a series of novels for a mature audience in which his narrative merely asks questions and lets the reader draw their own conclusions,

knows and engages in the lore behind his creation and will often respond to those lore-heavy questions, and has gone on record stating that canon is the glue that holds a story together and keeps it coherent.

Contrast that with George "continuity is for wimps" Lucas, who:

Wrote a movie franchise which is also, partially, political... but he makes it for kids, and he's explicit about how this is thematically a clear-cut story about how the conflict of "good vs evil" is really about "compassion vs greed",

with flat dialogue, boring cinematography,

and whose approach to lore and canon can be summed up in his answer to how Anakin got his scar:

"I don't know. Ask Howard [Roffman]. That’s one of those things that happens in the novels between the movies. I just put it there. He has to explain how it got there. I think Anakin got it slipping in the bathtub, but of course, he's not going to tell anybody that." - Pablo Hidalgo’s set diary, August 2003

And as a Star Wars fan, I will admit that some of his casual retcons felt disrespectful, growing up.

"Boba Fett is NOT Mandalorian?!"

I had the same reaction when I saw an interview of Kathleen Kennedy stating she was a fan of Star Wars... from a filmmaking perspective. That seemed like such a finagling cop-out for me, at the time.

"Just say you're not a real fan, God!"

And it's easy to divide it in two camps, like that. You have 1) the fans, who will delve into deep lore, and you have 2) the average moviegoer.

But looking back on it... holy shit, that is actually a completely valid way of being a Star Wars fan.

Yes, Star Wars is a transmedia franchise, it's books, it's video-games, it's deep lore, it's lightsabers and Jedi and Sith and bounty hunters and Ewoks and Jabba and High Republics and Tython and Revan etc.

But before it was that, Star Wars was a filmmaking revolution. A juggernaut of innovation for the silver screen that inspired most of today's filmmakers.

So, sure, George Lucas isn't an avid lore-loving Star Wars fan like you and me. But he is a movie fan.

"I'm not that passionate about this story. I like it, it's fun and I enjoy doing it. But it's definitely not my life. I'm a bigger movie fan than I am Star Wars fan. I like making movies. At the end of nine years of making Star Wars, I was not ready to continue it. I was completely burned out on it. I was more passionate about raising my kids than making movies and especially making Star Wars. So I made other kinds of movies and TV shows and advanced the technology I needed. It's not a matter of passion. My passion is for filmmaking. I'll go and do filmmaking that is easier to do, where you can realise your ideas better. And nine years is a big part of your life, and to commit to another nine years, I didn't wanna do that right away." - EMPIRE, 1999

And you can tell this, when you watch the Star Wars films.

There are honestly so many homages and interesting filmmaking techniques, peppered throughout the six films, which only a nerd for cinema history like George would know how to implement.

C3-PO being based on the droid from Metropolis (1927) is a perfect example of this.

And that's interesting.

Because there's essentially this entire other dimension to the films, where it's not just the story unfolding, but to filmmakers it's also a series of techniques that make them go "I wonder how they did that!" or homages that make them go "OH! I know where that's from!" like we do when an comics characters appears in live-action.

Here's other examples:

CINEMA HOMAGES

All of Star Wars is absolutely littered with homages to cinema history.

I mean, you may already know this, but Flash Gordon is what George originally wanted to shoot, but the copyright holders said they only wanted Fellini to direct it (ironically, George wasn't artsy-fart enough for them). So he decided to write Star Wars instead.

As such, the inspiration from Flash Gordon is also present visually and spiritually throughout the two trilogies.

"It was like a Republic serial, a 1930s-style matinee adventure. The idea was that you came in, saw Episode IV, had missed the first three episodes, and wouldn't get to see the rest of it." - Starlog Magazine #300, 2002

The dialogue that a lot of people refer to as "campy" and "flat" is actually a mix of George being an experimental filmmaker who doesn't give much of a fuck about dialogue (and is by his own admission, not the best at it)...

"I'd be the first person to say I can't write dialogue. My dialogue is very utilitarian and is designed to move things forward. I'm not Shakespeare. It's not designed to be poetic. It's not designed to have a clever turn of phrase. [...] I just wanted to get from point A to point B. This film doesn't lend itself to that sort of thing because it's not about snappy one-liners. I think that Lethal Weapon-style dialogue is overused, it's a necessary aspect of high action films where you have to have the smart retort. You have to say "I'll be back baby" and stuff. It's not my style. It takes away from the integrity of the movie. [...] I'm aware that dialogue isn't my strength. I use it as a device. I don't particularly like dialogue which is part of the problem." - EMPIRE, 1999

... which is convenient, because it helped him simulate the dialogue of 1930s matinee serials, such as Flash Gordon.

"Let’s face it, their dialogue in that scene is pretty corny. It is presented very honestly, it isn’t tongue in cheek at all, and it’s played to the hilt. But it is consistent, not only with the rest of the movie, but with the overall Star Wars style. Most people don’t understand the style of Star Wars. They don’t get that there is an underlying motif that is very much like a 1930s Western or Saturday matinee serial. It’s in the more romantic period of making movies and adventure films. And this film is even more of a melodrama than the others." - Mythmaking: Behind the Scenes of Attack of the Clones, 2002

But beyond that, literally it's everywhere.

The scene where Palpatine ascends to being Emperor as Anakin slaughters his political rivals parallels the final scene in The Godfather, where Michael becomes the Don while his goons do the same thing.

This video compiles all the tributes beautifully. Check it out.

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Even The Clone Wars has whole episodes that are direct homages to cult classics. The Zillo Beast episode is a clear reference to Godzilla, the episode The Wrong Jedi is inspired by The Wrong Man, etc.

"CINEMA VÉRITÉ" CINEMATOGRAPHY

I've already written a whole post (one of my favourites) showing how his fascination with cinéma vérité documentaries is reflected in the cinematography of all six Star Wars films, and it's part of what makes the entire franchise feel so immersive.

You can check it out here:

KUROSAWA

We've gone over how he's a big fan of Akira Kurosawa, and how big an influence Hidden Fortress was on both the Star Wars trilogies...

... but so is the mise-en-scène and the way George approaches production design. The reason Star Wars feels so "lived in" is also a lesson George learned from Kurosawa, which is that by making everything just a bit off-kilter, a bit dirtied-up and imperfect...

... and yet keeping it all consistent, in a way, you manage to make the film feel grounded and immersive, no matter how alien it is.

"[It] may sound odd in a movie like this, but credibility and realism, even in the most unrealistic situation… to sorta create that sense of realism is very important to making the story work and making you feel like you’re actually in the environment that transports you and gives you the suspension of disbelief that you need in order to enjoy a movie. [...] Kurosawa used to call it “immaculate realism” which is to make it slightly off-kilter, slightly eccentric, like things are in real life. Even if it’s a very predictable situation, give it that little funny edge that takes it away from that and makes it realistic. And I had to struggle very hard, in the Star Wars films, to make them appear to be realistic, even though they’re totally fantasy." - The Phantom Menace, Commentary Track #2, 1999

POST-PRODUCTION & VFX

Another one of the more impressive aspects of the first Star Wars was the dogfights and the trench raid of the Death Star. The camera pans with the spaceship, the dynamism of the cuts. The space battles is what made George creat ILM in the first place.

He was determined to do the opposite of what 2001: A Space Odyssey had done with that opening scene where the space ship moves into frame slooooowly...

... so he gave the team a collection of WWII dogfight footage to give them ideas.

(note: this was the same approach he would take years later with Dave Filoni, when teaching the latter how to edit and craft dogfights in The Clone Wars)

The attempt to film the trench run eventually led to the creation of the first motion control camera dolly.

Best analogy I can think of, when describing George's approach to Star Wars, is the following:

An avant-garde esoteric contemporary artist - y'know, the type who puts a blue dot on a white canvas and calls it art - creates a comic.

Why? Because he wants to make this one art installment for a gallery exhibition. After that, he intends to move on to other things.

But the comic is really good! And like, its audience quickly expands beyond just gallery visitors, no, everyone likes it.

Suddenly, the comic develops a cult following, and the entirety of comic book geek culture has zeroed-in on the artist and they're all asking him to make more art! And he makes more! And more!

Then he stops for two decades, moves on to other art projects, raises his kids. Years later, he discovers new ways of drawing, and he's like "I'm making a Prequel to the comic, y'all wanna see it?"

Everyone cries out gleefully: "Oh God, yes! Finally! Show us!"

But this motherfucker makes a manga.

Why? Because he feels like it.

And of course he does, he's just creating art, right? He discovered the graphic tablet, so he's having fun with it, because he's always innovating and pushing the envelope with his art.

And the movies are fine, by manga standards. But by comic book standards, they obviously suck! The comic book audience is mad. They wanted another comic book, not a manga. Why is it in black and white? Why is read right-to-left? This comic sucks!

(And arguably, they have a point... as a savvy businessman, he's made a whole lot of money off this comic, he built a media empire out of it, and instead of giving them what they want, he made something else)

But again... this guy isn't a comic book illustrator, and has been very explicit about saying this.

He's an artist who - for a very specific project - drew a comic.

Many things can be true at once:

the fact that these creative decisions didn't always hit their mark for the average moviegoer, or fans of "Star Wars, the space fantasy movies and expanded universe" (usually the lore-loving geeks like myself)...

... and the fact that they were meticulously and carefully crafted in a way that fans of "Star Wars, the revolutionary film" (aka fans of cinema and filmmaking) can appreciate.

There's a spectrum of the fandom, and there is a spectrum in the way we can appreciate Star Wars. Which kinda reminds me of that scene in Chef (2014) where Carl goes on a rant explaining the intricacies of making his chocolate lava cake to a food critic.

It's not just undercooked chocolate.

It's molten.

Conversely, it's not just flat, campy dialogue. It's an homage to the 1930s matinee serials à la Flash Gordon.

It's not just boring cinematography. It's a reproduction of cinéma vérité documentary-style camera work which effectively grounds the film.

Having considered all this, when I hear that Tony Gilroy or Kathleen Kennedy were more in the latter camp, I go "fair enough".

First of all, because like it or not, so was George. He clearly didn't give a single crap about the comics and books, besides signing off on minor plot points. He's not a "sci-fi movie director", he's an experimental filmmaker who makes movies set in space.

But secondly, because - aside from children - it's clear the audience he was targeting was these cinema-savvy folks who'd get his references and would be inspired by the filmmaking techniques.

Not the fans or the critics.

#george lucas #star wars #long post #meta #cinema #kurosawa

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trexiejan · 4 months

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What Batman thinks of Starfire.

Okay so I've seen many people curious about what Batman thinks of Starfire. I've seen a lot of people say Batman hates her and that he doesn't trust her cuz she's an alien and cuz he's a dickbabs shipper. I will explain why those statement aren't true. That's not who the original Batman is.

Let's go back to the original canon before all the stupid ooc retcons were created.

The first time Batman ever mentioned Starfire's name was in Tales of The Teen Titans #50 (1985) where Dick and Kory have already been dating for years.

and behold

- Bruce never referred to Kory as "the alien" he called her by her real name.

- He knows his son is in a real serious relationship with her.

- Bruce never made any bad comments about her nor did he show contempt for their relationship.

- He acted like a kind father who just wants to know how his son is doing with the woman he loves.

The 2nd time he mentioned her is in Swamp Thing #53 (1986) where he defended Human/Alien relationships like Dick and Kory's.

again he called her by her actual name and showed no issue towards Dick and Kory's relationship.

The 3rd time was in Funeral For a Friend (1993) where Bruce greeted her and Dick. He was happy to see both of them attending Superman's funeral. And for the 3rd time he called her by her actual name.

The Original Batman was a kind father who respected his son's alien girlfriend. Who wasn't spiteful and xenophobic towards Starfire and doesn't compare her to Barbara. and no, he wasn't a pro-dickbabs shipper. That ship didn't even exist before they retconned a lot of shit.

That everything changed after Dick and Kory got broken up. Reason for their break up? The Bat-editorial demanded they wanted Dick Grayson back to the Bat-office. The Titans Editorial had no choice but to pull him out of the Titans books and hand him back to the Bateditorial.

The Bat-editorial didn't like the idea of Dick dating someone outside the Batfamily like Kory so they couldn't continue their relationship in the Bat-books. It needed to end. The original wedding plan for Dick and Kory got cancelled. They don't like Dick and Kory? Okay fine, no one is forcing them to like them, whatever.

but no they couldn't just move on and leave Dick and Kory's past relationship alone.

They just had to say something negative about their relationship and put down their shared history, didn't they.

Why?

Is that really necessary?

Why can't they just respect the love that Dick and Kory had for each other when they were together and leave it at that ?

Cuz they did love and care for each other. It was a genuine love.

You can ship him with another woman without undermining and invalidating his history with Kory.

Like what did Kory ever do to them to make them hate her so much.

After they deaged Barbara to be the same age as Dick and pushed them together as the new pairing, they made a lot of comics degrading Kory, minimizing her interactions with Dick, and retconning her history and relationship with Dick into a one sided sexual fling.

and they turned Bruce against Kory too. This is where the idea of Bruce being a "anti-Starfire" and "pro dickbabs shipper" started.

They created this retcon in Gotham Knight #43 (2000) where Bruce acted xenopobhic towards her, making him refer to Kory as the alien and belittling her relationship with Dick, something he's never done before. Just to portray Barbara as his one true love. Bruce has never even talked about Dick and Barbara before and now suddenly he's shipping them. This retcon is not only an assasination of Kory and Bruce's character, it has also done a lot of damage to people's perception of Bruce and Kory's relationship.

All of this for the sake of propping up a retconned romance.

Not only is Bruce mischaracterized here, Babs is also acting so weird and ooc.

There was no reason for her to moon and whine over Dick like a lovesick girl from highschool.

She was a congresswoman when Dick was still in highschool. She called Dick "a child" and "little brother". She wasn't interested with him, he was too young for her 😭

Barbara already had a life of her own and own relationships, she dated Superman and got enganged to Jason Bard 😭

Dick had a precocious crush on her but he moved on from her when he moved out of Gotham. Even the original dickbabs writer said they were never meant to be together 😬

Barbara and Dick weren't pining over each other when Dick and Kory dated for years!

Dick never even once mentioned Barbara's name in the New Teen Titans books!

There was no reason for Babs to pursue Dick and vice versa, Both have already moved on to other people but stupid dickbabs retcons just had to exist 🙄

So yeah Bruce only hates Starfire when he's written by dickbabs writers and bateditors.

He was fine with her in canon before they pushed their dickbabs agenda.

Even in elseworld stories where it's not written by dickbabs writers.

Like in the animated show He supported Dick and Kory's relationship.

and in Kingdom Come he literally went to find the best doctors to help cure Kory's illness 😭

There's no logical reason for Batman to hate Starfire other than just to shit on Kory and prop up Dickbabs.

the whole "He doesn't like her cuz she's a dangerous alien" form of excuse is also BS

his bestfriend is literally Superman, an alien who is far more powerful than Starfire, he's also teammates with Martian Manhunter who is also an alien 😩

Overall yeah Fuck Dickbabs. It's the only ship that is good at character assasinating characters.

#dickbabs #anti dickbabs #antidickbabs #batman #bruce wayne #starfire #dick grayson #nightwing #dickkory #barbara gordon #batgirl

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fxoye · 19 days

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i'm honestly at a loss right now. like... what even is happening on the SNW star trek reddit thread?

i know i shouldn't be surprised at this point, but the level of pushback and dismissal when it comes to even the mere possibility of spock being queer is just... baffling.

like, i get that reddit has its share of toxicity and closed-mindedness, but for some reason i thought the star trek fandom would be a bit more evolved, you know? this is literally a franchise that has always been about inclusivity, diversity, and pushing social boundaries. and yet here we are, in 2024, still having to justify the basic idea that hey, maybe the character with a decades-long history of queer subtext and coding could, in fact, be queer.

it's just wild to me that this is even a debate. like, i'm sorry, but the idea of kirk and spock's relationship having homoerotic undertones is not some fringe tumblr headcanon - it has been acknowledged and explored by literal cast members, writers, and even gene roddenberry himself. the term "slash" in fanfiction comes from kirk/spock stories, for crying out loud. this is not new!

and yet we have people in that reddit thread acting like the mere suggestion of a queer spock is some sort of sacrilegious retcon that would ruin the character forever. as if spock's entire 50+ year history would be erased if he so much as looked at a man with anything other than heterosexual brotherhood.

it's just so frustrating and disheartening to see this level of knee-jerk dismissal and erasure, especially in a fandom that prides itself on being progressive and imaginative. like, we can envision a future with warp drives and aliens and literal magic space gods, but a queer vulcan is a bridge too far? okay then.

and the thing is, no one is even saying that spock is definitively, unquestionably gay, or that every single iteration of his character needs to be explicitly queer. all we're saying is that there is room for that interpretation, and that queer stories have just as much right to be told as any others. but apparently even that is too much for some folks.

it's a reminder that even in supposedly "enlightened" geeky spaces, homophobia and heteronormativity are still alive and well. and it's exhausting, honestly. as a queer trekkie, i'm just so tired of having to constantly justify my existence and fight for scraps of representation.

you know what, i'm gonna say it: the erasure and denial of spock's queer subtext, and specifically the spirk ship, is not just frustrating - it's straight up homophobic.

like, let's look at the facts here. kirk and spock's relationship has been coded as romantic and even erotic since literally the beginning of the franchise. the term "t'hy'la", which has been used to describe their bond, translates to "friend, brother, lover" in vulcan. that's not subtext, that's just... text.

and the evidence just keeps piling up from there. the way spock is the only person who can pull kirk out of his darkest moments, the way they constantly risk their lives and careers for each other, the "this simple feeling" speech in the motion picture... like, come on. even the kelvin timeline movies had scenes of them practically eye-fucking on the bridge.

and don't even get me started on the plethora of literary references that heavily code their relationship as queer. kirk and spock's dynamic has been compared to achilles and patroclus, gilgamesh and enkidu, alexander the great and hephaestion... all classic examples of homoerotic male partnerships. the iconic back-to-back pose from the episode "bread and circuses" is a direct visual reference to the novel "ishmael" by barbara hambly, which depicts a gay romance between two men. (as somebody pointed out; this is not accurate and since i was hazed asf (meds) when i wrote this, can’t remember what literary parallel i was actually trying to draw here. let me dig through my stash of gay literature history and i’ll address this 😭☝️).

these are not coincidences or fan delusions - they are deliberate, well-documented artistic choices layered into the very foundation of kirk and spock's relationship. and the fact that so many people are eager to ignore or downplay them in order to cling to a heteronormative fantasy of male friendship is honestly pretty telling.

and look, i get it. it's easy to claim "they were just best friends" because that's what we've been culturally conditioned to see as the default. but the reality is, intimate male relationships have been historically desexualized and stripped of romantic coding in order to maintain heterosexual norms. the achilles/patroclus model of male love used to be widely understood as having a romantic and even sexual element - it was only in the 19th and 20th centuries that it was aggressively reframed as "platonic friendship" in a textbook example of straightwashing.

so when people insist that kirk and spock's bond could never be anything other than a sexless bromance, they are literally upholding centuries of homophobic revisionism designed to erase queer love from our cultural narratives. and i'm sorry, but that's not something i can get behind as a queer fan.

you cannot look at the overwhelming evidence of kirk and spock's queer subtext, the decades of analysis exploring their relationship through a romantic lens, the undeniable impact and influence of queer interpretations on the very fabric of this fandom... and tell me with a straight face that it's all meaningless or invalid.

kirk/spock walked so that every other slash pairing could run. it is the ur-text of queer shipping in modern fandom. and while it may have started as subtext, it has long since transcended those limitations to become an integral part of star trek's cultural legacy.

but at the end of the day, i know that fandom will always be what we make of it. no amount of downvotes or closed-minded rhetoric can change the fact that queer interpretations of spock have been part of his story since day one, and will continue to be so long as there are lgbtq+ fans who see ourselves in him.

so to my fellow queer trekkies: keep boldly going, keep reading the subtext, keep telling our stories. they can call it illogical all they want - we know the truth. and as a wise vulcan once said: "there's no point in denying the facts of one's nature." 🖖🏳️‍🌈

#spirk #k/s #star trek #queer spock #i’m not mad just disappointed #jk i’m fucking pissed #don’t @ me unless you’re roddenberry’s ghost to back me up #rant

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tobi-smp · 10 months

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you know, with hindsight now what it is I really do think a more literal reading of c!techno's chat would have helped his characterization a Lot

and mind you, this was originally intended to be the case, and very well may have been intended all along even if it wasn't usually emphasized within the lore

youtube

and don't get me wrong, I Get why it fell out of favor within the fandom. it coincides with a Very storied ableist trope that demonizes DID and disorders adjacent to it, and Can be spoken about in a way that is essentially indistinguishable from it depending on the word choice.

but the thing is ! not only does it not Have to be an allegory for DID, I straight up don't think it is At All.

because we Know what it's an allegory for. It's His Chat. there's technoblade playing the game, and there's the thousands of people watching with expectations and wants that he's compelled to meet (or, at the very least, pacify through Entertainment).

and this makes much Much more sense when conceived of as Supernatural. be that spirits, gods, demons, or anything that could fill that role. separate entities that, for whatever reason, only techno can sense the presence of and be affected by.

and of course, to an extent this is true for all creators. everyone had an audience that they were meant to entertain and the choices they made were influenced by that fact.

but technoblade came in with a Very distinct set of expectations that heavily impacted the choices he was Expected to make and the kinds of stories that he could tell. he was more or less a living legend in real life just as much as he was in roleplay, and these things were inherently connected.

and it's like !

when c!technoblade says he was peer pressured into killing tubbo at the red festival he Is technically talking about what happened within the roleplay. schlatt was demanding it from him, there's a sort of pressure there. but schlatt was also the dictator they were set to kill, and techno has never had any trouble fighting people he considered a dictator before, and certainly not Schlatt of all people.

but he WAS being peer pressured By His Audience. by thousands of people, most of which were demanding blood Because It Was The Expectation, because it'd be Fun.

out of universe technoblade made the decision he thought would be the most Entertaining, and he was right! consistently he made choices that would let him do the most bombastic Spectacles possible. And It's Great. he's Excellent at pulling dramatics and making a compelling scene that give other people room to work off of. in that sense I'd consider techno an Excellent actor, and I have to imagine that he was fun to work with.

the problem is when you then have to justify it from an in character perspective, grounded in those mushy things like Feelings with characters that can be traumatized and sustain lasting damage, Especially Without acknowledging the out of character incentive.

mind you, it's not Impossible to Create a backstory that could justify it. why a character as consistently powerful and feared as technoblade would feel pressured to kill an ally by someone he not only Can kill but Wanted To Kill. why a character as seemingly secure and in control as technoblade would lash out the way that he does to perceived betrayal, and yet consistently puts no weight onto having killed and permanently scarred an ally that trusted him.

what that'd need is tragedy. a storied history of being hurt and having to survive. building up To an untouchable god from a much much more vulnerable position. Long Lasting trauma that's lead to this deep insecurity and paranoia. and that's Possible and that's Compelling.

but it's just not in the text.

not only did we never learn basically Anything that c!technoblade was up to pre-series, we actually know Less by the end than when we started because of the sbi retconning.

it's a Theoretically Possible interpretation that's technically never Contradicted by canon, but would have to be created by scratch. it's a compelling idea for a fan fic (and one I'd like to read) and it's compelling for a theoretical recontextualization of the character, but it's just not In The Text.

meanwhile, we have the video above.

we have the Objective Fact that technoblade's decision making was often subject to the rule of cool (very Very effectively) to entertain his audience.

and most compellingly, these concepts Don't Need To Be Separate. in fact, in my opinion they're Stronger when you put them together.

because the thing is. it's Difficult to imagine techno as ever being in a vulnerable position. he is just Objectively more powerful than everyone else on the server, both in real life And within the lore. How could he have ever been afraid when he was stronger than anyone and everyone combined? when we saw with our own eyes that techno could face nearly the whole server at once and win.

but he Is a tragic character, at least he's meant to be. and that tragedy makes much Much more sense as something Inward.

technoblade as a character who Needs connection, who Needs stability, who Needs security, who Needs friendship and community and Love. but Lashes Out, Obliterates to the core of the earth, because of something that's not only out of his control but that other people Cannot Understand.

how do you explain to a child that you killed their best friend because a chorus of the undead called for his blood and you (in all the glory that he'd idolized) were unable to do anything but comply? how do you explain to that child that you beat him senseless in a pit as the restless dead jeered and laughed?

That's interesting. That's Compelling.

technoblade is idolized like a god, feared like a force of nature, and in an instant cut himself off from nearly everyone who'd considered him an ally. and that seems to be a pattern, over and over and over again. he's left isolated, and in return he faces retaliation, and in return he's always Waiting for retaliation.

and what do you say to someone who wants to kill you for being a monster? that it's Fine Actually because you only did what you did because you have a curse that compels you to? that the supernatural guided you to destroy their homes and kill their people? (rip jack manifold you will be missed)?

That Doesn't Quite Help Your Case.

technoblade as someone who is beholden to this literal cycle of violence and Loses those things that could ground him, community, stability, People, as a result. who Tries to overcome this very fact (to become a better person, in his own words as per the clip above), but is pulled back into it as a consequence of his own actions.

that's a tragedy !! that Makes Sense. that allows him to be Both this force of nature that other characters have to survive And A Person Who Is Hurt By The Same Conflict.

"I'm a person!" that fear of dehumanization makes So So Much More Sense when you see technoblade as someone who Already fears himself. who fears being a monster, who fears losing control, who has faced isolation again and again and again.

and, importantly, it doesn't have to be anyone else's Fault.

by making the source both Internal and Completely External (something that none of the other characters have any awareness or control over), you can Have techno as a tragic character without demonizing anyone else Or erasing the impact that c!techno had on them.

and in that sense, it Can be an allegory for mental illness, but not in that direct "oooooh how scary he hears voices" kind of way that people fear it looks. but in that sometimes people Will do things that can hurt others while not feeling in control. anger and mania and paranoia, things that you can't always Control and yet that impact that you have on other people still Matters.

and the answer to that is, often, vulnerability and accountability.

I think a lot about technoblade isolating himself so near entirely from the rest of the server, and slowly gathering a support system Back by the end. and I Really Do think that framing of it through this lens is a Very impactful way of breaking it down.

tubbo, tommy, wilbur, ranboo, niki, I think they'd All understand not feeling in control. lashing out, maybe even feeling justified in the moment, but hurting people they care about and furthering their own isolation.

There's Something There, and it's already In The Text. it just needs to be expanded on.

and why not do that ourselves now?

#dream smp #dsmp #technoblade #tommyinnit #tubbo #meta #long post #back on my bullshit #I really do think that his character is just outright Stronger under this framing #and I genuinely think everything post doomsday would've been stronger if he'd leaned into this #that said this is probably messier than some of my other techno analysis #because I've been chewing on it for a few days rather than my usual of rehashing the same idea for two years in a row #but I'm rusty so give me a break #also derivakat voices is a straight up banger and you can all pry it from my cold dead hands

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racefortheironthrone · 10 months

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What did you think of X-Men Blue Origins?

(I may turn this into a People's History of the Marvel Universe later today, so keep an eye on this space.)

X-Men Blue: Origins and the Power of the Additive Retcon

(WARNING: heavy spoilers under the cut)

Introduction

If you've been a long-time X-Men reader, or you're a listener of Jay & Miles or Cerebrocast or any number of other LGBT+ X-Men podcasts, you probably know the story about how Chris Claremont wrote Mystique and Destiny as a lesbian couple, but had to use obscure verbiage and subtextual coding to get past Jim Shooter's blanket ban on LGBT+ characters in the Marvel Universe.

Likewise, you're probably also familiar with the story that, when Chris Claremont came up with the idea that Raven Darkholme and Kurt Wagner were related (a plot point set up all the way back in Uncanny X-Men #142), he intended that Mystique was Nightcrawler's father, having used her shapeshifting powers to take on a male body and impregnate (her one true love) Irene. This would have moved far beyond subtext - but it proved to be a bridge too far for Marvel editorial, and Claremont was never able to get it past S&P.

This lacuna in the backstories of Kurt and Raven - who was Kurt's father? - would remain one of the enduring mysteries of the X-Men mythos...and if there's one thing that comic writers like, it's filling in these gaps with a retcon.

Enter the Draco

Before I get into the most infamous story in all of X-Men history, I want to talk about retcons a bit. As I've written before:

"As long as there have been comic books, there have been retcons. For all that they have acquired a bad reputation, retcons can be an incredibly useful tool in comics writing and shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand. Done right, retcons can add an enormous amount of depth and breadth to a character, making their worlds far richer than they were before. Instead, I would argue that retcons should be judged on the basis of whether they’re additive (bringing something new to the character by showing us a previously unknown aspect of their lives we never knew existed before) or subtractive (taking away something from the character that had previously been an important part of their identity), and how well those changes suit the character."

For a good example of an additive retcon, I would point to Chris Claremont re-writing Magneto's entire personality by revealing that he was a Jewish survivor of the Holocaust. As I have argued at some length, this transformed Magneto from a Doctor Doom knockoff into a complex and sympathetic character who could now work as a villain, anti-villain, anti-hero, or hero depending on the needs of the story.

For a good example of a subtractive retcon, I would point to...the Draco. If you're not familiar with this story, the TLDR is that it was revealed that Kurt's father was Azazel - an evil ancient mutant with the same powers and the same appearance (albeit color-shifted) as Kurt, who claims to be the devil and is part of a tribe of demonic-looking mutants who were banished to the Brimstone Dimension, and who fathered Nightcrawler as part of a plot to end this banishment.

I don't want to belabor Chuck Austen, because I think that Connor Goldsmith is right about his run actually being a camp cult classic in retrospect. However, I think we both agree that the Draco was a misfire, because of how the retcon undermined Kurt's entire thematic purpose as established in Giant-Size X-Men that Nightcrawler was actually a noble and arguably saintly man who suffered from unjust prejudice due to the random accident that his mutation made him appear to be a demon, and because of how the retcon undermined the centrality of Mystique and Destiny's relationship.

X-Men Blue Origins

This brings us to the Krakoan era. In HOXPOX and X-Men and Inferno, Jonathan Hickman had made Mystique and Destiny a crucial part of the story in a way that they hadn't been in decades: they were the great nemeses of Moira X, they were the force that threatened to burn Krakoa to the ground by revealing the devil's bargain that Xavier had struck with Sinister (and Moira), they were the lens through which the potential futures of Krakoa were explored, and they ultimately reshaped the Quiet Council and the Five in incredibly consequential ways.

This throughline was furthered after Hickman's departure, with Kieron Gillen exploring the backstories of Mystique and Destiny in Immortal X-Men and Sins of Sinister, and both Gillen and Si Spurrier exploring their relationship with Nightcrawler in AXE Judgement Day, Sins of Sinister, Way of X, Legion of X, Nightcrawlers, and Sons of X. One of the threads that wove through the interconnected fabric of these books was an increasing closeness between Kurt and Irene that needed an explanation. Many long-time readers began to anticipate that a retcon about Kurt's parentage was coming - and then we got X-Men Blue: Origins.

In this one issue, Si Spurrier had the difficult assignment of figuring out a way to "fix" the Draco and restore Claremont's intended backstory in a way that was surgical and elegant, that served the character arcs of Kurt, Raven, and Irene, and that dealt with complicated issues of trans and nonbinary representation, lesbian representation, disability representation, and the protean nature of the mutant metaphor. Thanks to help from Charlie Jane Anders and Steve Foxe, I think Spurrier succeeded tremendously.

I don't want to go through the issue beat-by-beat, because you should all read it, but the major retcon is that Mystique turns out to be a near-Omega level shapeshifter, who can rewrite themselves on a molecular level. Raven transformed into a male body and impregnated Irene, using bits of Azazel and many other men's DNA as her "pigments." In addition to being a deeply felt desire on both their parts to have a family together, this was part of Irene's plan to save them both (and the entire world) from Azazel's schemes, a plan that required them to abandon Kurt as a scapegoat-savior (a la Robert Graves' King Jesus), and to have Xavier wipe both their memories.

Now, I'm not the right person to write about what this story means on a representational level; I'll leave it to my LGBT+ colleagues on the Cerebrocast discord and elsewhere to discuss the personal resonances the story had for them.

What I will say, however, is that I thought this issue threaded the needle of all of these competing imperatives very deftly. It "fixed" the Draco without completely negating it, it really deepened and complicated the characters and relationships of both Raven and Irene (by showing that, in a lot of ways, Destiny is the more ruthless and manipulative of the two), and it honored Kurt's core identity as a man of hope and compassion (even if it did put him in a rather thankless ingénue role for much of the book).

It is the very acme of an additive retcon; nothing was lost, everything was gained.

I still think the baby Nightcrawler is just a bad bit, but then again I don't really vibe with Spurrier's comedic stylings.

#xmen #xmen meta #raven darkholme #kurt wagner #irene adler #xmen blue #nightcrawler #mystique #destiny #chris claremont #si spurrier #krakoa #retcons #xmen spoilers #hoxpox

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freyjas-musings · 3 months

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WHO IS GWYN

Gwyn is the warrior priestess who was introduced in ACOSF and was mentioned over 500 times in the book. After Nessian and Feysand she got the most page time.

Gwyn is the priestess who refused to be defined by her trauma when she said she doesn't need to be coddled , she only needs to be spoken to like any other person.

Gwyn is someone who recognised a fellow survivor in Nesta and offered her a friendly hand without judgement.

Gwyn is someone with her own backstory of bravery and survival as described by Clotho.

Gwyn is the priestess who saved the children of Sangravah , someone who survived the worst horrors in doing so.

Gwyn is the first Valkyrie Reborn.

Gwyn is that friend who gives thoughtful and meaningful gifts to her sisters and fellow Valkyries . Someone who honoured them and put them in a book.

Gwyn is someone who truly believes that their stories are worth telling - the irony of some people who can't comprehend this simple fact and think her story isn't worth telling 😂😂😂 you silly morons !!!

Gwyn is the character that has as many quotes and one liners in one book as all other FMC written by SJM in their entire series ... lol and who would honestly believe that wasn't deliberate.

Gwyn is the first female to win the bloodrite along with Emerie and become a Carynthian.

Gwyn is the character that pulls numerous expressions from the usually stoic Az who Rhys says would never show his feelings on his face.

Gwyn is the character that reads Az like an open book unlike any other character, that bonus was all we needed.

Gwyn is the character that made the shadowsingers shadows sing and dance for her

Gwyn is the character that made Azriel feel settled and who calmed his shadows with a mere 20min conversation.

Gwyn is the character that made something spark in Azriels chest

Gwyn is the character whose picture glows in the shadowsingers heart - like embers in the shadow.

Gwyn is the 1/4 Nymph with very detailed background history of who she is and where she came from.

Gwyn is the character for who SJM retconned Sangravah.

Gwyn is the character based off of SJMs dear friend 🧡

Gwyn my friends is the character that will share the POV with Azriel in the next book !!!!

Art by Ariel Friass Commissioned by Me

So if you don't know who Gywn is .... you haven't read the book at all !!! And before you give your shitty brains a false high that you got to me .... Nah, I just love writing about Gwyn and will do so with any opportunity that I can get 😊

#gwynriel #gwyneth berdara #pro gwynriel #gwyn acosf #acotar #azriel shadowsinger #gwyn x azriel #azriel #post acosf #acosf theory #acosf

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lemotmo · 1 month

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🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Q. It annoys me that you were initially into Tommy and down to ship with us. I don't understand how you could have become so against it when you said yourself that you got his appeal. I don't agree with most of the things that you say but you do frame an argument well so it would have been helpful to have you on our side instead of against us.

A. You won't find the words 'I ship them' anywhere on my blog. I never once said that. I did say I got his appeal in 7x4. But that's because the show meant for the audience to see it in that particular episode. I did say he could stick around for a bit, with the expectation that he stayed the way he was written in 7x4. My opinion of him changed because the show intended for it to change. By episode 7x6 he became a standard issue plot device. The only reason I can, as you say, frame my arguments well is because I allow the storyline to frame my arguments. I'm not trying to force a narrative. Your argument is harder to make because you are trying to force a narrative. You can't take the storyline at face value because it contradicts what you WANT the story to be. That's the difference in our arguments.

The show has willingly written themselves into a corner with Buck and Eddie. But if, IF the show was ever going to put actual effort into one of their love interests Tommy was their chance. He had existing ties to the 118 history wise the narrative isn't great but this is 911 they could have magically retconned his past if they'd wanted to. He also had a job that was easy to work into the show. They had what they needed to at least try, but once again, they put zero effort into actually trying. He got the bare minimum of screen time and dialogue, and as a result they were always going to be selective with what they chose to have him say. He also never appeared in an episode that didn't also feature a scene between Buck and Eddie that contrasted his view of Evan vs Eddie's view of Buck. That was intentional. The show wanted the audience to see the difference. The bachelor party was blatant in this regard. Buck wanted to throw Chim a party and, in typical Buck style, went overboard. Tommy got invited, chose not to dress for the occasion, and left relatively early. Eddie not only suggested their look, but he picked costumes that relied on them appearing as a pair at the party. He was also the only person who stayed with Buck after everyone else bailed on him. Your side's arguments against both these things is that Tommy was on duty so of course he couldn't stay or dress to the theme. But the writers are the ones who put him on duty. The writers are the ones who sent him to work during the bachelor party. It was an intentional writing choice. They wanted him gone so they could use the rest of the party to parallel the story Eddie would later tell Christopher about how he met Shannon. The framing of the medal ceremony is another blatant example. When they were collecting their medals the show made a point of panning to their person/family in the audience. Yes with Tommy they panned to Buck, there were no other options for him, but with Buck they panned to Eddie, and a background Christopher. That was a deliberate choice. Again, your side's argument against this is because Tommy was already on stage so they couldn't pan to him. Again, that's because the show chose to write it that way. If they had wanted to be able to pan to Tommy they would have written the order differently. They would have swapped Eddie for Tommy in the medal order. It's that simple. Even their second kiss wasn't without the presence of Eddie. The show made a point of showing the Buckley parents and Eddie's reaction. Again, an intentional choice. Now take the finale. The audience saw Buck and Eddie as a singular unit throughout that episode, which is how they are always presented. They also reinforced how big a presence in Christopher's life Buck is. The audience watched Buck witness Eddie losing Christopher and watched Bobby, the man Buck sees as a father figure, basically die. They deliberately chose not to make Tommy's one scene in that episode be at the hospital. They deliberately chose not to use his 2 small lines of dialogue to provide any sense of comfort. They chose to use his dialogue to make a sex joke. Specifically a daddy sex joke. That was an intentional choice. A horribly timed disgusting joke given the circumstances of that particular episode. A choice that was so poorly received by the audience and critics alike that Tim tried to defend it and excuse it away before giving up and shutting up about it, but I digress. Yes, It was a poor choice but it was a deliberate choice to have Tommy, once again, focus and deal with Buck on a physical aspect instead of any kind of emotional aspect. The show framed this narrative, anon not me. I just wrote it down. It's why so many people on your side went straight to anger and insults as their weapon of choice because they couldn't rely on the narrative for help. That's not my fault rather it annoys you or not.

Thanks Nonny!

Yes, I completely agree here.

The only difference is that I am one of those people who didn't vibe with Tommy from the beginning. Even in that first episode I didn't find him interesting at all. I do admit that could have been coloured by my Buddie shipping glasses, as I am very much a mono-shipper.

As the episodes went on, my impression of him started going even more downhill. The man was written to be dismissive and uninterested in Buck's interests. While Eddie happily went along with everything Buck did or wanted to do.

The way they kept on showing Buck and Eddie as one strong unit in almost all of the episodes sealed the deal for me. It was then that I realised Tommy was a plot device to help Buck out of the closet and he wouldn't be around for a very long time.

It's basic story-telling 101. You use a third party to drive a romantic wedge in between the slow burn couple, only for them to come out even stronger on the other side. I've seen it happen hundreds of times on other TV-shows. This follows the exact same pattern.

It is what it is.

IMPORTANT! Please don't repost this ask and/or a link that leads straight to my Tumblr account on Twitter or any other social media. Thank you!

Heads up! For anyone who is giving me the shifty eyes for reposting Ali's updates instead of reblogging. Read this.

Remember, no hate in comments, reblogs or inboxes. Let's keep it civil and respectful. Thank you.

If you are interested in more of Ali’s posts, you can find all of her posts so far under the tag: anonymous blog I love.

#anonymous blog I love #insight into 911 fandom & season 7 and 8 #BT fandom #nonnies galore

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intuitive-revelations · 3 months

Text

Retrospective notes and what to keep an eye on after The Legend of Ruby Sunday

I started writing this while watching through a second time. While my thoughts were still a bit random and out of order, I've edited them into something that makes a bit more sense to read through.

Susan:

A little bit weird at first that Ruby asks why the Doctor doesn't recognise his own granddaughter, given that she doesn't know about regeneration yet and Susan Twist is clearly not mixed race. After thinking for a second, I realised she probably just immediately reconciled this as an adoption scenario, especially with her own family and history.

I've posted seperately about my feelings on the retcon of Susan's origins, but I am still surprised we're going this direction. I also find the wording a little bit questionable, as the Doctor makes it sound like he hasn't had children before, when he 100% did.

A Susan misdirect being linked to the word TARDIS is excellent though, given that she claimed to have come up with the word. (People freak out about what this means for her origins, but I don't see why it can't just be that she's responsible for the English acronym translation convention, which then passed on to all of human history thanks to the Doctor's travels.)

We didn't get Susan this time round, but such a massive red herring implies that RTD is planning to build up to such a thing for real, right? I assume we'll also be talking more about her next episode / in Tales of the TARDIS.

I also mentioned this in my live notes, but I quite like the Doctor's justification for not going back to Susan. It makes sense on its own, but takes on a whole new meaning in light of what happens in Big Finish (even if you do need to slightly nudge the meaning to make sense, and admittedly it still clashes with her participation in the Time War).

The Time Window and Misdirections:

Slightly put off at 'time window' being used as terminology for UNIT's tech when that's been used for actual time portals in-universe before.

Liked all the mentions of chronons though. Need to combine that and "N-dimensional time" into an actual pseudoscientific theory of time physics in Doctor Who with artron energy etc.

The Time Window is also totally how we get the Memory TARDIS, right? I'm guessing that's why the Doctor sent Ruby there, so she can escape into it (though I don't know what that will look like given Tales of the TARDIS surely won't be essential viewing). I wonder if that means the Doctor we'll see in that won't be the real one?

Super sneaky making the time window the 'secret from the Third Doctor era' that is revealed that was teased. Not a lie, but really teases something different to what we got.

Actually, in general kinda mixed feelings about the sheer level of misdirection is this story. You've got the above, all the focus on Susan, maybe the 'Beast', literally playing the Saxon theme (The Master Vainglorious). Seemingly also the thing about where people were stood on Christmas Eve… though I am going to check to see if there's something about the TARDIS / Sutekh. That being said, I'm guessing we're coming back to this, as the pointing isn't really explained yet.

RTD also said the script opened "INT. COFFEE BAR, USA - DAY, 1947" but we clearly never got such a scene. :/

On the other hand, all the playing around and subversion with anagrams was a lot of fun. Very much riffing off of DW tropes. Very funny also that UNIT would immediately pick up on the S Triad thing, given their and the Doctor's history with the Master's own aliases.

Sutekh and the Pantheon

Super intrigued by everything regarding the Pantheon in this episode. So we've got members:

Sutekh: God of Death. The Oldest One / The One Who Waits, the Mother and Father and Other of them all. The Toymaker: God of Games. The Trickster: God of Traps. Maestro: God of Music Reprobate: God of Spite. The Mara: God of Beasts. The Three-Fold Deity of Malice, Mischief, and Misery. Gods of Skin, Shame, Secrets Incensor: Gold of Disaster Incensor's Children - Doubt and Dread. Harbinger(s)

I'm probably too EU-brained, but it feels crazy putting entities like the Toymaker and the Trickster below Sutekh? They're both Eternal/Guardian level, while Sutekh is just an Osiran, powerful but ultimately ephermal. How is he 'the oldest' and the 'mother/father/other' of them all? I guess age could be partially put down to Sutekh's fate in Pyramids of Mars, but actually originating before them doesn't really make sense. I guess he could be an incarnation of a much older being, a bit like the Doctor could be?

However, I also doubt Harbinger is entirely reliable. She's clearly hyping up Sutekh's dominion, so him being the 'god of gods' may not mean much in terms of their origin.

Speaking of which... a lot of allusions to the Devil here, as I mentioned above. Chidozie finds himself in 'hell' and Carla literally calls the shape in the Time Window "the Beast". The security camera is also 66m away (funnily enough, around 73 yards). Add in Gabriel Woolf also playing the Beast in series 2, and you really do have to wonder if there's a connection. If Sutekh and the other Gods really do see him as the same entity as the Beast, then maybe he really could be the oldest of them all.

Side note: "Mother, Father and Other of them all" is great. Connecting the word 'Other' to parentage is also interesting, given we've been talking about Susan...

Going back to the Pantheon - I am now 100% convinced, after theorising before, that we've been meeting members of the Pantheon of Discord.

While there are family connections between some of them, I doubt they really are all related. They're way too distinct for that. But as a loose coalition of malicious god-like beings across the multiverse, it works. Weirdly, it is also reminiscent of some plotlines from the Tenth Doctor Titan Comics. It also feels like the direct opposite of the 'Accord' from the Leftbridge-Stewart series, which was seemingly another coalition of more benevolent deities, including the Azure Guardian. I wonder if they oppose each other?

Some of the namedrops are super interesting too. As I mentioned in my live blog, the Three-Fold deity must be connected to the Six-Fold God, even if just an imitation. Some of the names (eg. Doubt and Dread), being directly named for concepts and emotions, also brings to mind the Menti Celesti.

I also strongly suspect we're going to meet the Trickster again. RTD even foreshadowed as much when he illustrated Now We Are Six Hundred.

Big question is... when did Sutekh become connected to the TARDIS? The latest it could have happened is Wild Blue Yonder, and that would be the simplest explanation... but dialogue implies he's been attached and waiting for longer.

Again, mentioned this in my live notes, but the connection of Sutekh hiding in the "Howling Void" and appearing on UNIT scanners with contradictory information like the Dalek Void ship is an excellent connection. Especially, again, with the possible Hell connection:

RAJESH: And what's the Void? DOCTOR: The space between dimensions. There's all sorts of realities around us, different dimensions, billions of parallel universes all stacked up against each other. The Void is the space in between, containing absolutely nothing. Imagine that. Nothing. No light, no dark, no up, no down, no life, no time. Without end. My people called it the Void. The Eternals call it the Howling. But some people call it Hell.

Does this imply he attached himself to the TARDIS while it traveled through the Void? If so... when was that? Again Wild Blue Yonder is a good candidate, as the TARDIS literally reaches the edge of the universe (at least in some sort of spacetime geometry), but this could technically harken back as far as Journey's End, when the TARDIS last visited Pete's World.

A bit of me is intrigued by the description of Sutekh "whispering, delighting and seducing" the TARDIS, but nothing else indicates the TARDIS was willingly carrying him. Again another sign that Harbinger's speech may not reliable.

Remaining Mysteries

No offence to the people who were all in on the theory, of course, but I'm pretty sure the 'TV' theory is nothing. Especially after this episode. I feel like people latched onto the promo shot for this episode which looked like a TV set and confirmation bias took on from there. That being said, I am ready to eat my words if it somehow comes back to that next week!

(TBF, the TV theory obviously does have some relevance to DW in general, what with the Weeping Angels, Doctor Who exisiting in-universe, fourth wall breaks etc. I just don't think it ever had anything to do with this story.)

So Mrs Flood is confirmed to be something alien or supernatural, after the ambiguity with the Christmas 4th wall break. Simplest answer is that she's also serving Sutekh / the Pantheon, but IDK... she seems different.

Still need to know what's up with Ruby's mum too. Annoyingly, the episode makes it kinda ambiguous if she was pointing at the past Doctor (as per the flashback earlier this series) or at the present one. If the prior, I assume she was actually pointing at the TARDIS / Sutekh?

That damn "worlds with orange skies" line. It's probably nothing, right? But why did we focus on it, complete with musical sting. RTD knows that's significant. Hell, it's specifically significant to Susan, with her talking about Gallifrey in The Sensorites, and Ten recalling it in Gridlock.

Also, unless the soundtrack was lying to us, which it doesn't usually (though I guess isn't unprecendented, with the Weeping Angel theme being used in Day of the Doctor when Osgood realises the statues are disguised Zygons), maybe a Master reveal coming up some point in the future? How though, I have no idea.

#Doctor Who #Fifteenth Doctor #The Legend of Ruby Sunday #DW Spoilers #Doctor Who Spoilers #DW Meta #DW Theory #long post

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being-of-rain · 3 months

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I'm not a massive fan of franchises pulling twists that retcon decades of history without a meaningful reason to do it and a good story to back it up. So Empire of Death saying that Sutekh has been a stowaway on the TARDIS for something like thirteen of the Doctor's lifetimes didn't really do it for me. And if that's the case it does feel like something of a cosmic coincidence (which I know RTD can be fond of in his arcs) that all the signs of the occupation start showing around the exact same time. (Namely: the Susan Twists appearing for the first time to the audience at least; a mystery that intrigues Sutekh enough to bend reality, because I guess no other Dr Who story arcs have been juicy enough; the TARDIS making a weird sound, which was such a strange arc element to put in The Broken Time Ship Makes Strange Sounds show; and other gods infringing on the universe and speaking ominously about him.)

So I do like the idea that it was in fact the thin, lightly salted laws at the edge of the universe that allowed Sutekh to properly climb back into reality and into the TARDIS, and that any retroactive observing of the Doctor or seeding of the universe with Susans he did was through the TARDIS' complicated relationship with spacetime, or any godlihood that the time vortex gave him or whatever. Honestly Sutekh's explanation about how he got to where he is today is vague enough that I don't really feel bad about interpreting it how I want to.

I know I already sound like an awful old fandom grouch, which I'm sure I am, but I also didn't get the Doctor 'bringing death to death' at the end of the episode. Even on a conceptual or symbolic level, to me that feels like adding a negative to a negative. Not to mention the Doctor doing it by dragging Sutekh through the vortex and then seemingly dumping him in it to kill him, despite that purportedly being what he's been doing for the last few thousand years and it turned him into a god. But after rotating it in my mind a bit, it did sort of make sense to me as the Doctor reversing Sutekh down his own timeline, unwriting him (and at least his most recent, largest effects on spacetime) so that his existence unravels. The canon-welder in me can't help but wonder if the Doctor was using his Time Lord knack for dematerialising as seen in The War Games, perhaps even the powerful influence on the universe that the Time Lords have in Death Comes To Time; something he never wants to use as a weapon on principle, and is deeply ashamed to be put in a position where all of the universe can be saved if he just utterly destroys one life.

Or if you think this is all silly, that's okay. This is just how I have fun 😊 I hope everyone else enjoys TV shows in their own way.

Now I just need to do some canon-welding to explain why there's a whistle-activated laser cannon in the TARDIS console.

#dw spoilers #doctor who #TARDIS #Sutekh #just some canon welding for my own entertainment #my posts

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artbyblastweave · 7 months

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I was thinking the other day that Red Hood is a compelling character but inherently an extremely high context one. It's really obvious that he's a character who required the two-decades and change of publication history, editorial evolution and fandom debate that it took for him to bake. Red hood presupposes, bare minimum:

that there's an established Batman/Joker rivalry that's been going for a while

That Batman has gotten past the year-one section of his career and brought at least one Robin into the fold

That after the crowbar incident Batman has continued to operate as Batman for a significant amount of time

That the version of the DCU you're looking at includes some method of resurrection, be that the Lazarus Pit or the retcon punch

Ideally, you'd have Dick Grayson as Robin first, because you obviously lose a lot of the crunch if Jason doesn't exist uncomfortably in Dick's shadow prior to his death, but if you had an executive breathing down your neck about how the narrative has too many moving parts you could maybe drop this

On top of all this the story arc also presupposes audience familiarity with the out-of-universe debate about the no-kill rule, and moreover it presupposes that the version of Joker you're looking is specifically awful enough that there's an actual utilitarian argument in favor of breaking the no-kill rule- Can't do Under the Red Hood with Ceaser Romero's take on the character. You may or may not have had time to establish his track record.

Oh, yeah, and it's gotta be a version of the continuity where the censors let you kill people on screen! Nearly forgot that. I recall thinking that despite the obvious scramble to introduce all the priors, Under The Red Hood was remarkably effective for being able to import everything it needed to create the sense of time, place and progression of Batman's character, the very specific point in his development where you need to catch him for Red Hood to make any sense. By contrast I remember thinking that the half-hearted attempt to backport Red Hood into the DCAU in the comics-IIRC he actually post-dates that continuity- was just very obviously doomed, like come on, you're trying to cram a third robin into an established timeline? You already made a decision to hopscotch him when you went right from Dick to Tim, no backsies! There are other characters I bucket like this, characters who I think have some there-there, but are immensely high-context in a way that seems tough to negotiate in an adaptation. Miles Morales is one, and I was amazed at how gracefully the Spider-verse films navigated that, how gracefully something with a four-or-five hour runtime integrated the broader concept of continuity lockout/creep/what-have you into the story. Power Girl is another, and they've never really figured out how to integrate her as far as I'm aware- Galatea in JLU being the closest I know of. I have no doubt that if I were more familiar with the Teen Titans side of things I could start rattling off ancillary characters from that space. I don't have anywhere in particular I was going with this, I just think about this category of character a lot.

#thoughts #meta #late night rambles #dc #dc comics #red hood #under the red hood #batman

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y-rhywbeth2 · 10 months

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Lore Compilations (+ this blog's tagging/filter list at the end)

A WIP of a pinned post table of contents to tidy up the blog while I empty my fixations onto it plus a lore accuracy disclaimer (so I don't have to keep typing one), because why not. I like tables of content.

Disclaimer regarding lore accuracy: If you combine 50 years, 5 editions, 10+ settings, god knows how many novels, and then all the writers who all retcon and contradict each other's work then what you get is a clusterfuck. The lore I show here is compiled from all five editions of the game. You will likely see stuff out there that contradicts some things I say, or stuff I didn't mention/know. That's the lore for you. If you were the Dungeon Master making your own story, your job would be to pick and chose and build your own take on the setting out of it. I, personally, heavily favour older lore. Larian absolutely did this with Baldurs Gate 3 - frankly, I don't think they even know half this lore even exists, and Bioware took some liberties in the original games too. Wizards of the Coast themselves trample D&D into the ground all the time! All D&D is near enough fanfiction built on fanfiction. Therefore, if you find any information useful you may take it, leave it or tweak it to your desire for your own story, because it's D&D lore, and that's how it works.

Disclaimer regarding Larian's canon (and Bioware, and Obsidian): The setting shown in BG3 does not really match up to the setting as presented in sourcebooks (and sometimes novels, previous games, and 'word of god). I'm always talking about the latter and reframing the story and characters within the latter.

Disclaimer regarding asking me for my opinions on how [x] works in canon: I can make an educated guess based on the sourcebooks, but there are many gaps in many places and however educated the guess, unless it comes from a sourcebook, novel, or writer, it's just my own headcanon.

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TABLE OF CONTENTS [WIP] (I make no promises as to the speed or order at which any of this is produced - and some of these need updating)

Abeir-Toril Why it's called the "Forgotten" Realms

Baldurs Gate: The City #1 | Demographics | Law & Legal System | Aministration & Government | ???

Human Names | Clothes and Fashion | Music | Dating, Sex, Marriage etc [part 1] [part 2] |

Religion How religion works in the Realms, the different pantheons in the world and then individual posts dedicated to the gods as individuals, how and why to worship them and how their churches function

Religion | Priesthoods and Temples | Deities

Death and the Afterlife Dying | Judgement | Afterlives

Arcane Magic

Vampires Feeding | "Biology" | Hierarchy & Powers | Weaknesses & Cures | Psychology

Elves The Complete Book of Elves once said ‘The elves of Toril do not follow the standards of most other worlds,’ which yeah, pretty much. The Player’s Handbook is not necessarily going to be accurate when talking about the Tel’Quessir.

Drow Culture | Other Drow Cultures

Planars & Planetouched Tieflings | Githyanki | Bhaalspawn | Devils

Orcs

Hin - That's "halfling", if you're over 3'4" Overview | Names | Culture | Homelands | Religion

Gnomes Culture | Names | Homelands | History | Religion

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Tagging system:

Various lore things that don't go in the larger compilations are tagged lore stuff. Things that aren't lore will get tagged babbling.

For sensitive material, such as if I feel like poking at the various delightful topics presented in the game:

I'll use edgelord hours as the generic "reader discretion advised"

The tag villainous nonsense means Dead Dove Do Not Eat.

the family circle is an extra warning for discussing the themes and subtexts such as those present with Bhaal's cult and the Bhaalspawn: including reproductive horror and sexual abuse, including the incest.

If I feel like posting anything I scribbled ("art"), the tag will be the scribbles

When I'm making posts and being negative or complaining about video games and trivial stuff, it will be filed as: griping

Whenever I find or consider something new about the Dead Three and/or want to rant and scream insults at Bane again, my tag is the idiot three

When I babble about my characters, I tag it OCs, and the ocs are also tagged by name. So far I've only mentioned Vel

If I don't want to put my babbling about certain characters into the tags, I'll just put the / in front. /astarion, /orin, /gortash, /durge, etc

When I want to babble about stuff happening in my game as I play it, they're tagged playthrough shenanigans. The original games are bg2 playthrough shenanigans.

When I start talking about my oc's romance with Astarion I'll tag it petty murder boyfriends

#lore stuff

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jevilowo · 3 months

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List of Tf2 inconsistenties that piss me off

Bc its 1am and im staying awake while beloved mutual Jo livetexts me while they watch venom (I'd tag them but they blocked tf2 tag)

The timeline presented in the Shakespearicles post. Just read it yourself its sosisoso frustrating

The claim in the Shakespearicles post that mankind gave up inventing until 1921. What do you call Radigan in the 1890s then idiot.

Different claims on Merasmus' age (older than the universe in doommates, vs 6000ish in the lore comics) (this means the universe is 5999ish i guess okay)

Scout claims in comic 4 that he met Ms Pauling 6 years ago. Medic claims the mercs have shared "at least" 8 halloweens together. Despite both of these, the catch up comics imply the gravel wars with our mercs only took place over one summer. The first two are supposed to be meta jokes I think (ms pauling debuted in the war update comic, 2009, 5 years before comic 4 [miscalculations again??], and the first scream fortress was also 2009, 8 years before comic 6) but come onnnn be consistentttt.

Australian women had moustaches in the 1890s, but Mags doesn't? I've blamed this on long term Australium Depletion but its still annoying.

Saxton Hale claims its 2010 on the mannconomy update page, but the corresponding comic takes place in the 60s. I'm presuming this means the comic takes place on a different part of the timeline from Saxton’s notes but okay.

The crazy wild Australium retcon. So Sniper was created in 2007 to be australian. Then they invented Saxton Hale for Spy vs Sniper in 2009. Then people liked him so he became important. So in 2010, the engineer update invented Australium (although it was alluded to as early as the classless update a bit before that) and the corresponding comic claimed it made all australians buff. Despite this, in 2011 Sniper's parents were given very not buff, probably bc the artist was hella rushed at the time and had no time to reread the engineer update stuff. Then the comic writer remembered scrawny bastard Sniper was Australian, although maybe the regular writers were cooking excuses for that before then. So we got the New Zealand excuse in 2014 (im pretty sure), but that still didn't explain away his parents looking normal. Thus, my australium depletion theory. Valve should just hire me at this rate smh.

Silas Mann. They were setting him up to be somewhat important I'M SURE OF IT. They even retconned a mann co "quarterly concern" from the classless update to include his name for the engineer update! And they changed the cover slightly. Can't tell if this is a retcon or some abandoned "they tried to cut him out of history" sideplot thingy to explain how Silas became the Horsemann. I'm still holding out hope he returns in comic 7.

Abe Lincoln died two different ways and still became a mercenary? I excuse this as he faked his death a little too well (some blueprints imply it in the engineer update)

Speaking of, a coin claiming he invented the rocket jump despite MY BOY SHAKESPEARICLES. GAH.

This is just off the top of my head, mind you, and i haven't finished lore research. Expect many more grievances.

But yeah no in conclusion the writers need a calculator and also to consult each other more often so they don't contradict each other

#tf2 #team fortress 2 #tf2 lore #silas mann #tf2 engineer #tf2 shakespearicles #abraham lincoln #horseless headless horsemann #sniper tf2 #tf2 sniper #radigan conagher #australium #scream fortress #ms pauling #tf2 merasmus

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zvtara-was-never-canon · 1 month

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IG this might be the wrong blog to ask (do you have a main?) but what are some things you hate about the show/fandom that don’t relate to Zutara? Is “The Great Divide” really that bad? The comics? The Legend of Korra?

Okay, let's split these in categories

What I dislike about the original show

How we never really see much about the cultures of the Air Nomads and Water Tribes, and that the planned episode about Aang's parents was scrapped.

How Ty Lee basically has no arc and just went from "Hates being part of a matched set" to "Happily part of a matched set."

How Toph didn't really get any resolution with her parents, be it a reconciliation or a decision to cut contact like Zuko did with Ozai.

How the Lion Turtle wasnot introduced much earlier and instead used a Deux Ex Machina. We all know Aang won't kill Ozai, guys, you don't have to pretent, just let us know there's something Aang can to do avoid it and go revealing stuff about energybending little by little, then give us the final piece of the puzzle in the finale.

How the White Lotus was clearly a retcon that stopped making any sense after season two and that they're actually pretty fucking useless when you think about it.

How the show basically forgot that Iroh was very much a villain in season one, and for most of his life, therefore he has no right to call Azula crazy and dismiss her as a lost cause.

How Iroh says it wouldn't be right for him to kill Ozai, even if he could, because history would just see it as just a brother killing another brother for power, then IMMEDIATELY sending his 16-year-old nephew to a battle to the death with his 14-year-old niece - all while the White Lotus FINALLY decides to do SOMETHING and frees Ba Sing Se...

...Which looks horrible for Iroh when we think "Oh shit, last time he tried to capture it because he thought it was his destiny, his son died, and now he sent his nephew to a battle in which nearly dies and gets another scar while he's off trying to free that same city because of destiny again." (Seriously, when it comes to Ba Sing Se, don't let Iroh do ANYTHING other run a tea-shop in it. Somehow it always shows the ugly side of his personality).

How "Sokka's Master" is really an episode that did not need to exist at all because while Sokka had always wanted to be a warrior, he never really expressed any insecurity about being a non-bender and was only ever teased about it once. It just felt like an obligatory "The dude with no powers is important too!" episode and not a natural stepping stone of the narrative.

As for "The Great Divide" it is a pretty boring episode... but it's not as bad as people say. I don't think the original Avatar had any episodes in which nothing is important or at least creative and/or cool. I like the music in it, the world-building is kind of neat, the theme of helping refugees is pretty coherent with a show about war, and the animation changes when we are told the versions of the story on what these people hate each other was pretty cool.

What I dislike about the novelizations of the show

While some of the attempts of exploring how characters felt in some scenes really works and provides some interesting interpretations, others just fall completely flat and feel a bit OOC.

What I dislike about The Lost Adventures comics

That ridiculous story with Katara being way too pushy with Aang's training for no reason and refusing to communicate with him when he wants to talk about the kiss on the day of the invasion. She would never treat him like this.

What I dislike about the Azula In The Spirit Temple comic

The bits that remind me "Oh yeah, that's supposed to be set in the same universe of the Yang comics." Other than that, it is a pretty good stand-alone story and it allowed Azula to be turned into a deeply offensive stereotype about the mentally ill.

What I dislike about (most of) the comics and Korra

Nearly everything. Seriously, I don't know how the reception to these were mostly mixed instead of on the same level of hatred the fandom has to the Shyaman movie. The character assassination and lack of understanding of what made the original story good is EXACTLY the same, yet because it had Bryke's approval/involvement people expect me to take it as canon and it's NOT gonna happen.

What I dislike about the Netflix version

It exists. I'm sick of all the bullshit, souless remakes/reboots that are clearly just crash-grabs for companies that completely forgot they can make money AND art at the same time. I especially hate the trend of beautiful 2D animation being replaced with cheap cosplays, ugly CGI and poor lighting to pretend it is the "dark, mature version of the story"

What I dislike about the fandom itself

To make a really, really, REALLY long list very short and not really rank them 'cause it'd take forever:

1 - The blatant ableism towards Toph and Azula.

2 - The constant delusion about Avatar being "just like Game Of Thrones" and "not a kid's show."

3 - The people still insisting that the Netflix version, Korra, and the comics are good or "not that bad."

4 - The weird way some people act like Zuko was the first character to ever get a redemption arc and that everyone who does it now is taking inspiration from it.

5 - The refusal to accept that uncle Iroh was never perfect, both due to oversight of the writers AND deliberate narrative choices.

6 - The people that act like the show was trash just because of a few bad choices.

7 - The people that act like the show is perfect.

8 - The people that act like Bryke's interpretations are the only ones that matter.

9 - The inability to not harrass others for not agreeing with them.

10 - The weird, stupid people that act like Sozin and Azulon were not that bad and not just as power-hungry, racist and cruel as Ozai.

11 - The people that don't understand how Aang killing Ozai would be character assassination AND a deep betrayal of the themes and morals of the story.

12 - The people that keep losing their shit if you want a character like Azula to have a redemption arc because it'd "make Zuko's less especial" (it wouldn't, and I know that because HE WASN'T THE ONLY CHARACTER TO GET REDEEMED IN THE STORY, hell, he wasn't even the first).

13 - The downright offensive and disgusting need the fandom feels of sweeping Zuko's mistakes under the rug, no matter how bad they are, because they think he needs to be perfect otherwise he was not truly a victim of abuse.

14 - The way people just full on make shit up to support their headcanons, ships and theories.

15 - The blatant racism.

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secret-engima · 5 months

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I have tea and a soap box let's spill something shall we (Wakfu Rant)

*sips tea*

I've been in this fandom for like. A month? more? Depends on how long it took me to work through the show. I've not actually interacted with the *fandom* at all, just the canon stuff and my own spiralling insanity. But while I'm here I might as well make enemies /s. Therefore:

Oropo is a much more compelling character deserving of redemption than Qilby. Qilby:

Had a loving literal goddess mom and a bunch of loving siblings.

A beautiful planet and thriving culture he could go anywhere and do anything on

The capability of going into space without any technological aids once he got bored of the Eliatrope world and started to suffer the effects of his eidietic memory thing. We know for a fact that Eliatropes and their dragon sibs literally don't need so much as a helmet to vibe in space, they could have gone out there any time, explored the cosmos a bit, found cool things as souvenirs and brought them back to show off to his siblings.

While this is very clumsily and blatantly retconned in s4, in s2 Qilby is very open and blatant about the fact he willingly picked a fight with Orgonax with the INTENTION of forcing his entire people to flee their world into space just so he would have more company than Shinonome. An entire world and no doubt thousands of Eliatropes and who knows what pieces of their history and culture were lost because this man, and I remind you again that s2 Qilby taunts Yugo with this fact no matter how s4 woobified him, wanted to FORCE his people to join him in space rather than just let manning the fuck up and going out there with his sister on a buddy roadtrip.

Seems very convinced that some or all of his specimens in his lab are the last of their kinds, which at best means he intentionally targeted dying species on alien worlds to capture and put into jars for literal eternity which is all kinds of animal cruelty (assuming some of them aren't sentient!!) and at worst means he is the reason they are the last of their kind because Qilby wanted his souvenir to be Unique.

when his people finally found a new world to settle on and be happy and try to reclaim their culture, he instigated a SECOND GENOCIDE, this one taking out not only their home world but literally every. living. adult Eliatrope (and dragon considering the propensity for dragons to have Eliatrope twins as stated in s1). Literally thousands if not millions of people are dead, thousands of children are orphaned and left trapped in a realm where they cannot *grow up*, the vast majority of his own siblings are dead and oh look at that. He's stuck in sensory deprivation hell. Man. If only there was some course of action he could have taken that would not have led to him fighting his own siblings, losing his arm, and getting stuck in the white void of horribleness. Man this truly is a tragedy of fate. Definitely no way he could have gone back into space without the Zinit. Definitely could not have just hopped on Shinonome's back with a packed lunch and gone out there on his own knowing he would have a loving family to come back to whenever he got lonely. Man.

upon breaking out of the White Void Of Horrible he is even more mentally unstable (and yes I know he's mentally ill during the above events, that does not excuse his actions when he is aware enough of them to gloat about them to yugo later) and immediately decides that he's going to kill this entire world in order to leave and he's going to take his siblings and the few surviving eliatrope kids with him by force.

has ANYONE other than me noticed the incredibly dark and horrific implications of him apparently planning to kill Phaerys and Yugo (and Adamai likely). Yugo says he couldn't go through with it and I'll believe that, but the fact he apparently consciously PLANNED it. Am I the only one who saw that scene and went "if he kills them, then they go back to the dofus and hatch without any memories, which means he will be able to RAISE AND GROOM THEM in the Zinit to believe that whatever Qilby says is right and do whatever he wants, like galavant in space for eternity".

S4 can retcon as much as it likes to make the Orgonax thing an accident and Qilby a mama's boy (which I freely admit was funny and I would have enjoyed in any other villain), but going off s2 and moving into s3 I REALLY cannot see why people like him more and hate Oropo.

And even if we DO count s4's retcon that made the first incident an accident the SECOND WAS STILL DAMN WELL INTENTIONAL. And Qilby is still responsible for the death of thousands twiceover on top of the death of an entire culture. All of Eliatrope history, culture, science, medicine, *music*, *STORIES*, it's all gone save for whatever the Emrub kids happen to remember (and the kids will not remember it accurately because they are children). All their architecture is destroyed, all their native cuisine is GONE and so are the ingredients to make them. All because Qilby wanted to force them into space WHEN THEY DID NOT WANT TO GO and HE COULD HAVE GONE ON HIS OWN AT ANY POINT WITH SHINONOME.

Speaking of Oropo! Let's look at what we know about him for comparison!

Was created by accident and is intimately aware of it.

was thrown back in time and lived most if not all of his life perpetually terrified of changing history or accidentally erasing himself and his siblings

Not only saw all of his siblings die off over the years but had their energy absorb into him in something that is no doubt extremely traumatizing to undergo. if any of you have watched the Oropo-centric ova, man for a mastermind manipulator he sure do look like he wanna cry and throw up and curl in a little ball when two of his siblings die in front of him and he is forced to assimilate their life energy.

"Supposedly" staged several key villain creation events which I personally press x to doubt because it's so clunky when mixed in with s1 and s2 lore BUT if we graciously assume that he did then gee. can't possibly be a factor of the third bullet point and his terror of erasing the timeline with his own existence can it? Can't possibly be Oropo falling into Every Heroic Time Travel Trope Ever where the hero ensures a certain event happens in order to maintain the timeline in key points hm? Even if it's a bad idea?

Has been successfully and lovingly married? partnered? mated? to a badass half-dragon wife for literal centuries and every time they are on screen together before the Dramatic Amalia Bullshit they are loving and balanced and give off so many Old Married Vibes and then THEY RESUME that dynamic for the few seconds on screen they have before they both die.

Adopts and raises hundreds of orphaned demigods who apparently were more than happy to live in the Tower and follow him throughout their lives, and in fact show no sign of abuse or manipulation in their behavior until the finale when Anakam decides it's time for everyone to think Oropo is horrible

is actively DYING when we meet him and not just dying but faced with the prospect that there is no happy ending for him. He will never see his loved ones in the afterlife, he will never know peace, he will be assimilated by his creator Yugo and at *best* be essentially digested into raw wakfu and at *worst* be a ghost stuck in the head of a man he has extremely complicated and negative feelings about for the above time travel and sibling trauma.

Adamai EXPLICITLY MENTIONS THAT OROPO IN S3 IS ACTING OUT OF CHARACTER when he goes into his more Blatant Villain Moments. Which sure, could be "the mask" falling to reveal someone "oooo evil" but isn't it far more likely he's acting out of character because he's dying and having a crisis about it.

canonically hates violence, but was so desperate to ensure his loved ones would have a better world he was willing to resort to turning himself into a suicide bomber to "create a better world". Was this a good idea? no. but ppl apparently love to point out how Qilby is mentally unstable to justify his behavior soooooo like. Why is that excuse not applicable to the guy who's literally spent his entire life being uncertain he's even real and has a right to exist but is real enough to DIE and never see the people he loves again and therefor go off the rails in his attempts to make something better for them?

in s4, the same season that makes Qilby sympathetic so if you count that as canon then by gods you better count the Oropo moments as canon, Oropo gives Yugo a reprieve from the literal life sucking torture he's in, helps him get a new outfit, and lets Bouillon play fight him (because again, Oropo hates Doing Violence) to keep him distracted and SANE while his body is being horribly tortured. In the end Yugo even confirms they are real and a part of him which is literally all Oropo wanted in his dying speech if you rewatch the finale and boil down his fury to its bullet points (he is a clone without a future and literally says stuff along the lines of just wanting to be REAL and wanting Yugo to ACKNOWLEDGE him).

For a supposed mastermind villain who wanted Yugo dead Yugo sure does seem Super Duper Alive in the months/two years/whatever timeline Ankama is using this hot second since he created the clones and was therefore *no longer necessary* for Oropo to keep alive.

At the end of the day Qilby actively chose HIMSELF over the wellbeing of others and got multiple siblings killed as well as two worlds and an entire civilization/culture wiped out. OROPO set himself on a path of similar destruction and then ACTIVELY TURNED BACK because he was faced with the choice of his ambitions or HIS LOVED ONES and he PRIORITIZED THEIR LIVES OVER HIS OWN AND HIS OWN GOALS where as Qilby not only did not do that, he didn't do it TWICE. TWICE. Oropo's death count is miniscule and he chose to sacrifice himself rather than lose the people he was doing this for and Echo knew he would make that choice, which means she also knew his love of them was genuine. You cannot compare that to Qilby and tell me Qilby is in any way better.

Okay rant over I'm going back to planning my wakfu canon rewrite and my various Echo/Oropo oneshots thank you and good day.

#Secret Engima Rambles #wakfu #Oropo #wakfu oropo #wakfu qilby #SE rants #if anyone comes in here talking about the manga or the games don't even bother #if its information that the writers of the show cannot be damned to put IN the show then it does not count for the purposes of this compari #also if you like qilby that's fine?#s4 qilby was entertaining #but Oropo is best boy and Imma kill canon on this hill #thanks #long post

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