#Endos can interact

[willlllllllllllllllll]

hello and welcome to wills second ted talk

reasons im not anti endo

1. the endo community is really positive!!

2. yes, a good amount of endos spread misinformation or invade didosdd tags. but generalising an entire group of people based on some of those people’s actions is fucking bullshit!!!

3. because endos can back up their existence with medical research (even in the dsm it says other types of plurality exist) and I’ve never seen an anti endo back up their findings. just shit on endos research

4. the amount of antis who say being endo neutral is being pro endo

reasons im not pro endo

1. the amount of misinformation spread by the community makes me uncomfortable. yes it’s not everyone but it’s still a prominent issue

2. the endo spaces have an. odd feel to them

3. blogs like @\editedantiendoposts and @\turnitsysclusive

4. my in-sys friend has been called an abuser for being anti endo

so yeah that’s why I’m endo neutral :3

feel free to talk to me about it in the notes!!

[witchyy-kittyy]

Emotional self harm does exist. And yes, this can include scrolling through r/syscringe.

Syscringe and fdc can cause emotional harm to people who are posted, especially if they believe they are a system. While I agree with the sentiment that you shouldn’t post stuff on the internet about being a system if you aren’t okay with being fake claimed, that is because in cases such as on the internet, it is usually your job to manage your triggers.

Syscringe is emotionally damaging? Then you shouldn’t scroll through it. You are scared of being fakeclaimed? Don’t post about being a system and/or block people. Don’t like seeing certain content? Block tags.

There are obviously going to be situations that don’t fit neatly into this. And it’s important to note that a lot of people, especially with emotional self harm, might seek out these triggers. But you are on the internet, and as a part of that, you have a responsibility to do what is right for you. Don’t bitch and moan about being posted: either don’t scroll or make valid complaints about the subreddit, for example, the fact that some of them deny known facts about disorders (most recently, levels of autism (this tends to go along with a lot of misinformation)), or the fact that many of them will post people for reasons such as having fictives from a certain source or just supposedly knowing languages they didn’t learn (yes this is an actual thing I’ve found).

Tldr; scrolling through r/syscringe can be a form of emotional self harm. But this is a case where it’s your job to manage your trigger, and whining about it on tumblr isn’t going to do anything.

[saturnine-system]

maybe this is a controversial opinion, but i don't see the harm in fictives making friends with others from the same source? as long as everyone is respectful of each other?

i do see the potential issue in mixing fictive stuff with kinnie/irl stuff though

idk. ive heard mixed reactions to fictives looking for "sourcemates" and im curious about others' takes?

my questions are— if this is harmful, why? is it truly deeply messing with the trauma of those involved, and if so, how?

[katbuggie]

aghhhh! ask me questions about my system or things in general! AHHHH! do it now!

pls? 🫠

i just wanna YAP!

[twinnesblogxx]

We have a new guy here now. I'm staring to think that our splitting may be somehow uhhh embedded into our code? I cant find a better phrase for it.

I don't think splitting every week, usually Saturday or Monday night, is normal. Like, without fail.

Anyhow, welcome, 🔲. [He's co-front with me]

[the-v01d-sys]

i don’t always agree with everything here, some of it makes sense and some of it doesn’t, but I’m still gonna support people bc like.,, as long as they’re not outright harming anyone or doing anything that’s like. in bad faith or otherwise is keeping groups that are already marginalized even more oppressed. then they aren’t really doing anything wrong imo.

also there’s no point in going onto someone’s page or tags and yelling at them about why their identity is bad/wrong just because YOU might think it is.

also that’s mean.

i feel like people should all just exist in their own spaces and then come together and support each other in the collaborative spaces, and also like. people r more important then labels., especially outside of the Internet where those labels don’t matter as much, especially to the people who are going to hate us anyways.

tl;dr it’s better to support people even if we don’t agree with them as long as they’re not being actively problematic to anyone. i think.

i think i’m just rambling at this point shfbsjfhd

[mutagensys]

getting into the mix with you LOL

""groomed" me into believing that I'm a traumaendo system." Nobody said that! Sorry! the io collective wasn't saying they were fucking grooming, but endogenic systems do push a narrative as to where alters have come from, if in a Traumagenic system, have to be from trauma specifically.

"I completely made up by our host at the time, and then she spent a lot of time intricately creating my personality and identity until I became a full fledged alter." There is.. a lot of ways I can say this isn't how it would work, but i'll try and assume you are a system in this conversation. You can.. create oc's.. and as a traumatized brain can do... decide that this oc is perfect for your brain.

Yknow what, for the sake of the argument, I'll just ignore that aspect in general. Let's go back to what the arguement started as.

"Whether you like it or not, there is an overlap between the CDD's system side and endogenic system side."

There is not.

Sure, we have a lot of similar terms and shit, but that is because endogenic systems have stolen terms from CDD systems. Majority of us who are CDD would of been totally fine with endos existing, if not for the fact that they have forced their way into the CDD community.

In others definition, Endogenic systems occur when they have "the state of being more than one identity in a body in a way that was not caused by traumatic experiences.", which is completely opposite to CDD being a Disorder that was forced onto us and developed due to trauma.

A large example of this difference is "Tulpagenic", which by a multiplicity wiki, states that "Tulpamancy is the westernized adaptation of a spiritual practice within Tibetan and Indian Buddhism.", that that these beings are "entities intentionally created in the mind parallel to your own consciousness.", and are developed through "visualization and meditative techniques" Again, this is entirely different to CDD experience. This seems like what you described most in your experience, as being "molded" by your host.

Soulbounding is another version. This is described as "a spiritual occurrence where a character from fiction essentially bonds to a person." It specifies that these souls of characters are from other universes, meaning not formed inside one's head. And again, specifies that "A soulbond functionally can be seemingly sentient from the start and autonomous unlike a tulpa", and that "Not all soulbonds will live with the host"- Again, more of a spiritual practice. Gateway systems are slightly similar, in a way where "gateway systems have at least a partially metaphysical or spiritual origin", as It descripes their entities as seperate souls, or ones that have passed on.

And then Willowgenic is LITERALLY JUST TUPLA but you didn't want to steal an actual religious thing so you made a new label to describe it. But AGAIN! "A willogenic system is a system that was purposely created, or willed into existence, through psychological or spiritual means". It is just saying "entities intentionally created in the mind parallel to your own consciousness." in new words. WHICH, IM 100% SURE MOST OF US WOULD BE OK WITH IF NOT THE FACT YOURE LUMPING IT IN WITH CDD. BECAUSE CDD IS ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.

Now, you're probably wondering, What the FUCK is the difference then? How is this so entirely different?

CDD is described as "When any one or more of the five types of dissociative experiences – depersonalisation, derealisation, amnesia, identity confusion, identity alteration – occur as continuing and/or repeated episodes, i.e. becomes chronic". This is different to Willogenic, Soul bounding, etc etc, because despite everything its not that new people are FORMING in our head. CDD is when a shit ton of amnesia gets put up in one singular head that it chronically affects our lives. And once again, "episodes of dissociation must be interfering with your work, social, home, family or student life and for many people this is the case". Which, let me tell you, HAS NEVER BEEN DESCRIBED IN ANY EXPERIENCE ENDOGENICS HAVE TALKED ABOUT.

This is the problem we are trying to tell you. CDD is a disorder that develops due to trauma, and experiences the above symptoms- but never because we want to. By even YOUR GUY'S DEFINITIONS, CDD SYSTEMS AND ENDOGENIC SYSTEMS ARE NOTHING THE SAME.

Hell, lets really get specific. I know there's a lot of taboo around talking about alters in very very scientific and specific terms here, but I'm going to and its gonna be so that you can really understand the differences

In Endogenics, you describe it as like having actual people in your head, right? Well we don't have people in our head. Sure, its a lot easier to describe it that way, but that isn't exactly how it works fundamentally.

Systems are built around fragments. When you are a child, you don't have a formed personality. You have hunger, happiness, anger, fear, basic emotions that slowly get correlated with specific things. If you don't experience all that shitty repetitive trauma, eventually this individual sections of yourself come together. They begin to make a whole individual instead of staying these fragments.

What happens in systems is instead of these basic parts of your personality coming together, due to repetitive trauma, the brain is unable to close itself together and mix with each other. Instead, there's walls put up with amnesia between these parts, parts that once made up a whole are now issolated from eachother. Each part builds upon itself, but is unable to mix with the other parts of the brain due to the amnesia walls the brain has put up. The reason people don't call these parts "seperate personalities" is because of the amnesia walls, these walls are built around each individual one- Seperating them from eachother. The reason we develop more alters, even as we get older, is more that each alter's personality GROWS, and an alter's personality might be cut into a smaller fragment, thus making it MORE and MORE fragmented

Endos' brains isn't split up into these parts, they just get more. They experience plurality COMPLETELY differently to Systems, and shouldn't use terms SYSTEMS have to describe a completely different experience. It isn't being Fragmented, in your guy's words its literally just adding onto an existing, whole brain.

We want endos to understand that. We aren't saying, well, I'm not saying that you are not experiencing what you are. You could be an Endo for fucks sake, I don't care, but the problem is that "system" is Our Term. Being a System inherently means Traumagenic. You could use plural all you want but when i say "You are not a system" I mean "You do not have the same experience as CDD Systems do, and please find your own terms to describe your shit because it isn't the same as ours".

God that was a ramble. If I don't make any fucking sense or see anything in my writing that was stupid just tell me and i'll try an edit it. I know I sound mad, partly because I am, but its more that I feel like people don't have all the information, and I just want an actual educated conversation.

"antis invade OUR plural tags all the time" WHY ARE YOU IN THE OSDDID TAG???? WHY???

you can't even argue that it's just a "plural" tag??? ITS THE TAG WITH THE NAME OF THE CDDS IN IT???

i don't wanna see anyone ever say "endos don't invade CDD spaces" bc tell me why yall are in the tag specifically for the disorders (don't actually. i don't care about your opinions 💕)

(🐇 and 🍓 but mostly 🐇)

[willlllllllllllllllll]

to all the endos, willogenics, pro endos, etc.

i am VERY sorry if any of you have seen angel’s bullshit in the endo tags recently!! his actions aren’t reflective of the rest of us, and although the system as a whole is anti endo, none of us go that far

angel’s just doing it for attention, so give him it if you want, but he won’t take anything you say as any more than that: attention

his role is.. i don’t know but basically storing up all the injustices done to us and turning them into anger or disproportionately reacting to them

if any of you would like to talk about syscourse or angel’s behaviour send me an ask or reply to a post!! i have a post explaining my neutral syscourse stance and i love talking about syscourse stances and different views

you’re all worthy of love and support no matter your plurality labels, because you are humans (or nonhumans!), and that means you deserve respect

now time to tag as many endo tags as i can think of to get this seen (not an endo system and not pro endo or willo but this is a message to you)

[multiplesillylittleguys]

I wonder how an endo would react to actual OSDDID distress. Like an intense flashback where alters are screaming and crying and freaking out, where you're hyperventilating and get forced out of front because you're in too bad a mental state, even though everyone is.

Or when you're being taken advantage of because of your amnesia, perhaps adding to your already huge pile of trauma.

Or being somewhere, no idea how you got there and completely lost, panicking because how the hell are you going to find your way home? Where is home? Who even are you?

*actual* OSDDID isn't fun. It isn't just having people in your head. There's so much distress involved in this.

-Jayden

(ENDOS AND PRO-ENDOS DNI I don't give a shit this is a VENT not syscourse so take your fucking death threats and suicide bait somewhere else.)

[saturnine-system]

aggressive reminder that suibaiting is shitty and unjustifiable! no matter how much you disagree with someone, it doesn't mean you should tell them to fucking kill themselves

[coolhumanoidbeing]

On your blog...

You want to exclusively talk about the debilitating side of DID? Sure! I hope it helps to write it down ❤️

You want to talk about the quirky, or fun events that come from your DID? Sure! I'm glad you have a place where you can be positive. ❤️

You want to talk about science and studies? Awesome! You can even link them to allow for further reading!

You want to talk about the community, and talk about yourself using community-made terms and ideas? Cool! Science hasn't caught up on the lived experience of people with DID. You keep doing your best to describe yourself!

You want to talk about how you have little to no sense of self, and undefined alters? That's totally fair! Dissociation is sometimes not cut and dry, tell us about it!

You want to talk about how you have very clearly defined alters that feel so distinct from you? All good! That's common too, tell us more!

But if...

The second someone has a lived experience that differs from yours, you argue with them?

The second someone is too positive, too negative, not aware of their alters, too aware of their alters, too scientifically inclined or not enough scientifically inclined, you argue with them?

That sucks!

Syscourse feels like a knife to the chest. I've suffered enough. Let me have a community. I know I can't be the only one to think this.

It's not because you wanted a community when you opened Tumblr, and found experiences that differ from yours instead, that you have to attack these people.

I've tried to stay away from the fights, but I think that if no one brings up how senseless they are, they have no chance of stopping...

***this is about DID. Not endogenic folks. I do not include any endogenic people in my discussions since they do not claim to have DID***

[kaboom--bitch]

Man being a fictive from a source people know is fucked. People greet you like they know you and you just have to sit there. "Hi Bakugo!!!!!" who are you. What do you want. Why are you in my house.

[manyminded]

please be normal abt endogenic systems and polyfrag systems and fictive heavy systems and systems w/o fictives and non-disordered systems etc etc etc. I’m tired

[million-with-a-b]

"Doubles dni." we are not the same person! Hope this helps.

[thosecactussharks]

Idk how to articulate this properly, so I appreciate any insight and nuance that other people can add to this sentiment that I might not have been able to properly explain.

But...can we stop demonizing people with low empathy? Why is that becoming so normal?

"What happened to empathy?"

"Why is empathy a foreign concept to these people?"

"It's not that hard to have empathy!"

All of these statements blatantly disregard people with personality disorders, mental illnesses, or people like me who are Autistic and ADHD, who also just...don't have normal levels of empathy for people.

Low empathy isn't an excuse to be a piece of shit.

Low empathy also doesn't inherently make you a bad person.

I struggle to connect with people. I struggle to care and feel what people feel.

I struggle not to be critical or make remarks that upset people, because I struggle to see from other people's points of view without having personally been in that situation.

But I do care about people. I might show it differently, or not feel the same as you do, but I do care.

(Below is personal experience, so I can only speak for myself as an AuDHD person. I cannot speak on other disorders that involve lower empathy. I would love your input if you have a better view on your experience!)

I might not feel empathy, but I can break down logically what is and isn't bad one way or another. I can break down and understand when something bad has happened and, logically, deduce that another person feels bad.

I, personally, have cognitive empathy. Not a lot, and I do tend to think hyper-logically, but I can break a situation down into facts and work from there.

I'm alexithymic, so emotional empathy doesn't really work for me. My normal emotions are hard to feel or pinpoint accurately, so the ones I should feel for other people are practically nonexistent.

But, that doesn't give me the excuse to be an asshole.

Sure, maybe it could explain my thought process or reasons behind my actions, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't apologize or try to understand why I said something upsetting if others express that I did something shitty.

So, maybe, instead of demonizing low empathy folks, we should be calling out assholes because they're being assholes - NOT because they feel and experience things differently from you.

[willlllllllllllllllll]

oh I’m going to sigh so loudly im going to sigh at you so loudly syscord