#Who is Donna Troy's Father

[donnatroyprincessofthemyscira]

[littlefankingdom]

~ World's Finest: Teen Titans

Guess who is gonna be in trouble with his dad because of his friends'bs?

[allovesthings]

On one hand, there are a lot of things in Titans (1999) that are not that great but, on the other, I do think this comic is one of my favorites when it comes to the dynamic of the fab five and their relationship with each other (the moment when all of them are dreaming and stuck is theirs younger self for example).

Also this comic is the one who made me want to read more of Roy. He is genuinely great in it. So I think that's a plus.

[saturdaynightfrightclub]

DC’s penchant for creating characters with black hair and blue eyes presents a really funny opportunity. Especially when so many of said characters being of similar ages to Bruce’s children.

I think a lot of them have been mistaken as actually being Bruce’s kids by tabloids.

I like to think it started with Donna Troy. Who would hang out around a young Dick Grayson-Wayne. Would hang out with young Dickie Wayne a lot. To the point that the paparazzi took notice, and started to speculate on the nature of their relationship.

Which abruptly ended when an overzealous reporter confronted the pair as they left a movie demanding info on the nature of their relationship and when they had started dating.

To which Donna had laughed and waved them off saying: “Dick is my brother!”

English was not Donna Troy’s first language. She didn’t realize that by omitting the word like (as in: Dick is like my brother) she had caused a media uproar. Because everyone knew that Dick Grayson was Brucie Wayne’s son, his little boy. But the insinuation that he had two children?

They take one look at this tall, gorgeous young woman with black hair and blue eyes. And then look at the young boy beside her, also with black hair and blue eyes. It wouldn’t be too much of a stretch to believe that Bruce had adopted two children who bore passing resemblance to him, if not fathered the pair himself.

It was Outrageous. It was Insane. It was Deliciously juicy gossip.

(Dick could have corrected them. But he actually thought Bruce trying to explain away another kid to be really, really funny.)

The papers go crazy for the idea of Bruce Wayne: Family man and suddenly all anyone wants to interview him about is his two kids! Donna and Dick!

Bruce had expected this, having been aware of Donna’s slip-up. But he didn’t refute it, because it really was a bit funny. Instead he spouts off proudly about his two kids, relaying stories of Donna growing up (which he had originally heard from Diana). It’s harmless, something to feed the papers and expand upon his Brucie Wayne persona.

After all, it’s not like he actually intends to adopt any children besides Dick.

But. . . Then there’s Jason. With his dark curls and big blue eyes who talk at length about how cool his “big sister” is. And never mentions his “big brother” except to pout at the mention of Dick Grayson’s name.

And for a while Bruce is believed to have three children.

Except after Jason, there’s Tim Drake.

Tim, who (having sustained a serious concussion) one day panicked and proclaimed a confused Conner Kent as his brother. Upping Bruce’s supposed children count to five.

Later he offhandedly mentions a Billy and Freddie. The media goes nuts with the notion that Bruce has two more sons hidden away somewhere. Seven children, six boys and one girl.

The papers sympathize with Donna’s apparent status as eldest and only daughter of Bruce Wayne.

This doesn’t last long, as soon afterwards Bruce is introducing his daughter Cassandra to the public. Shes often seen with a blonde young woman who goes by Stephanie, and the pair have tabloids speculating that Bruce has branched away from his obsession with adopting blue eyed, black haired children.

Years after that, there’s yet another young boy. With browned skin and green eyes, he looks exactly like a young Bruce Wayne with different colors. Another child to Bruce’s family. And after that, there’s Duke Thomas joining the fray.

And then one day a reporter stops a pair of boys outside of school one day and asks Damian Wayne about his friend, one Jon Kent. Wanting a story about how the children of the elite differ in terms of making friends from “normal” children. Damian scoffs at the question and asks the reporter if he’s so incompetent he can’t recognize both of Bruce Wayne’s sons.

The media goes nuts for this.

Bruce Wayne; single father to twelve kids.

Lois laughs so hard she cries that Christmas, when she opens a card from the Waynes that prominently features Bruce surrounded by not just his own children, but her brother-in-law, Connor, and her son Jon. Clark complains that Bruce is stealing his kids.

Diana frames the card. It really is a good picture, and Donna looks amazing.

[podado-t-memes]

All the (New) Teen Titans have Daddy Issues…

Dick Grayson: Witnesses both parents dying in front of him. Then he was adopted by the most EMOTIONALLY CONSTIPATED MAN in the entire universe.

Koriand’r: Her parents sold her into slavery to save her home planet. THEN her Dad call her home only to say the enslavers have left BUT Tamaran is about to break out into civil war and they NEED her to marry some guy she’s never met. Even though she was dating Dick and her FATHER WAS AWARE BUT DIDN’T CARE. He pressured her into a union she didn’t want and she lost her lover because he refused to be a side piece to a married woman. Also her sister sucks.

Raven: Her dad is literally a rock in her head, AKA Trigon. Say less.

Garfield Logan: His father experimented on him, saving his life but turing him green and giving him powers. Then his parents promptly drowned in a river. Then he went through foster care. Brought into the Doom patrol and raised by yet another emotionally constapated father figure.

Victor Stone: Mom? Dead. Dad? Scientist who saved his life after an accident, but turned his own kid into a half robot. Painfully. And against his will. He couldn’t play the sports he loved anymore and he felt like a freak.

Joseph Wilson: His dad is the reason he is Mute. He comes from the most dysfunctional family in DC, with his dad being an assassin for higher, and older brother who died, and a sister who his dad pretends doesn’t exist. His dad is “Death Stroke.” Say less.

Donna of Troy: Parents? Nope. She was saved from a house fire by wonder woman who brought her to live with the Amazons.

[zahri-melitor]

@upswings I had a go at it.

My further notes on this:

I am KICKING myself over who in DC has been written out of existence by their parent, but Wanda’s a classic pick anyway.

I just can’t work out who was transformed by powerful unknown magics and I’m going to groan when I get it.

Additions from my own backlog of ridiculous canon:

If you killed his clone in a fight? Was that clone you killed your son? (Travis Morgan and Joshua Morgan)

When you’re a computer program who THINKS you’re the father of that son (Death Masque and Ray Terrill)

If your son died in a car crash and then you found out an alternate version of him was raised by Granny Goodness (Donna Troy and Robbie Long)

If your son has been cloned and the clone raised by his evil grandfather? (Don Allen and Thad Thawne)

When a scientist gets infected by a sample of tissue from your son being held in captivity and being experimented on (Preston Payne, Sondra Fuller, Cassius Payne and Peter Malley)

[tiffanybluesclues]

HELLO! I'm making an obnoxiously long meta about the inconsistencies of Dick's and Bruce's relationship. I'm ALMOST finishes but I need an instance of adult-ish Dick Grayson saying that he didn't want Bruce to be his father pre-flashpoint

Also if you have instances of the writer hammering they're brothers pre-flashpoint that'd be cool as hell too, but I already got at least one instance of it (when dick goes to college)

Thank you in advance!!!! I'm still on the Kory-Bruce meta lmao I'm so annoyed he barely mentions her lmaooo

Somewhere in the decades and decades of pre-Flashpoint DC Comics, there may be an instance where Dick Grayson (as an adult or at least as a teenager) said he didn't want Bruce to be his father, but I've never seen it and I'm kind of glad I haven't because tbh based on what I *have* seen it would be Dick lying to himself.

I'm guessing the page that inspired your quest is this court scene from "Batman: Year 3" (1989)?

– Batman #439, 09/1989.

Maybe it was a modernized explanation for why Bruce took Dick in as a ward instead of adopting him – as opposed to the version in Batman #213 (08/1969), with the court saying Bruce couldn't adopt because he was a bachelor.

Something that speaks volumes to me is that in the same story as the above court scene, in the preceding issue actually, Dick thinks to himself that Bruce was like father to him. There is no internal conflict in this statement, no thought about how he at some point didn't want this. "He was like a FATHER to me and I LOVED him." He follows that up with a sad reminder of the distance between him and post-Crisis Bruce: "...and though he could NEVER bring himself to say it, I know he loved me too."

– Batman #438, 08/1989 or 09/1989.

You're familiar with the college-send-off, so please keep it in mind when you read this scene with [regard to] Bruce and pre-Crisis Jason.

– pages from Batman #376, 10/1984.

Alfred's response makes sense, it's a good explanation. It's also a complete rewrite of history, so these two are lying to themselves – or, more likely, the writers are trying to emphasize the current day stakes and emotions at the expense of the past. With the above panels in mind, let's look again at how Bruce actually reacted when Dick left home...

– pages from Batman #217, 12/1969.

Oh suuuuure, he definitely didn't mope around feeling lonely and depressed at all – and closing up Wayne Manor and moving out was a ~totally~ chill and non-dramatic reaction to Dick leaving for college... lol, okay, Bruce. I guess 159 issues and almost 15 years can make memories faulty.

The following are two pages I saved because of their references to the history that Bruce and Dick share. I want to highlight the page on the left though, because on a single page this comic manages to pay respect to the long history between Dick and Bruce while also disrespecting Dick's role as a surrogate son in Bruce's life.

– pages from Detective Comics #533, 12/1983; The New Titans #61, 12/1989.

That final yellow panel is so rude to me lol, like how dare you say "for the first time" as if like-a-son-to-him Dick Grayson didn't happen.

Comics from the 60s and 70s were probably the peak time for the idea that Bruce and Dick were like brothers. As far as I can tell though, writers didn't really have other characters describe them as brothers. I've seen mentor & apprentice, friends, partners, guardian & ward, knight & squire, and (primarily when there are no other children in the mix) of course Dick is also described as Bruce's heir pretty often.

I feel like, compared to Batman comics, the 1980s Teen Titans comics were more willing to say Bruce and Dick had a father and son relationship. Donna even contrasts her sisterly relationship with Diana to the parent and child relationship of Bruce and Dick during "Who Is Donna Troy?"

– The New Teen Titans #38, 01/1984 (Donna); The New Titans #61, 12/1989 (Alfred); The Brave and the Bold #197 04/1983 (Golden Age/Earth Two Bruce Wayne).

At least they let Earth Two Bruce remain true to Golden Age vibes.

My headcanon is always that he is the Bruce who every Dick Grayson grew up with, regardless of era, regardless of rewrites. Here are some panels that kind of support that – a significant factor in how Dick views Bruce is that he had a "softer" version of him than the man we see now.

– Batman: Gotham Knights #26, 04/2002 (Barbara); Nightwing #134, 09/2007 (Dick in flashback); Batman #437, 08/1989 or 09/1989 (Dick again).

A repeated theme from Dick is that he is insecure about his place in Bruce's life, and in some instances Bruce even made it clear that Dick's role was as a soldier, or at best a partner, and that being part of his family was conditional.

– left: pages from Robin: Year One - Part 2, Part 3, Part 3, Part 4, 01/2001.

right: panels from Robin: Year One - Part 4, 01/2001; Batman: Gotham Knights #43 09/2003; Action Comics #613, 08/1988; same; Nightwing #134, 09/2007; Nightwing Secret Files #1, 10/1999; same.

With that underlying insecurity, and the deep love and loyalty that Dick has for Bruce, I think that by the time he came of age it's likely that Dick actively wanted Bruce to be his father.

The first 20 or so issues of Gotham Knights offered some great material about their familial relationship (leading up to the adoption storyline). In issue #14 Dick writes a letter that he still never send. I swear half the delay in my response was probably me deciding which panels to include from this because it is a gold mine for the kind of meta you're writing.

– panels from Batman: Gotham Knights #14, 04/2001.

& with that I've hit the image limit, but I'll reblog with some panels on the point about how Bruce and Dick were often described as friends (something I saw possibly just as often as ward and heir).

[r1z3n]

First, we must establish some things:

Because this is comic worlds therefore we have to at least establish canon and not canon, and much like comic artists and writers of the everyday past and present we gonna cherry pick what we like, and leave everything else behind. So Canon Divergent warnings apply.

READ MORE BELOW: (trying to be considerate to people's dashboards cause this got away on me lol)

There is the Justice League which members are Currently:

Superman - Clark Kent

Batman - Bruce Wayne

Aquaman - Arthur Curry

The Flash - Barry Allen or Wally West (You need to ask for the Flash you need, the Forensic [Barry] or the engineer [Wally])

Wonder Woman - Diana (Toria [Donna] will Alternate with WW but turned down a permeant position)

Captain Marvel - Billy Batson

Green Lantern - Hal Jordan (Again much like The Flash depends on who is need though)

the Martian Manhunter- J'onn J'onzz/ John Jones

Green Arrow - Oliver Queen

Cyborg - Victor Stone

Nightwing - Dick Grayson

--- This is where we really get into cherry picking ---

Then I think of loose canon of the Teen Titans and Young Justice meshing, making it more of what I've taken to calling

the First Titans:

Nightwing/Robin I - Dick Grayson

Flash/Kid Flash I - Wally West

Aqualad I -Kaldur'ahm (Retired)

Toria/Wonder Girl I - Donna Troy

Arsenal/Speedy I - Roy Harper

Starfire - Koriand’r

Miss Martian - M'gann M'orzz / Megan Morse

Superboy I - Conner Kent

It is important that we establish that in my world there was a divide for operations and code of conduct and charter writing which is the foundation for many non-for-profits which both operate as.

This did not get fixed or amended until well after Jason's death, meaning you know what happened if you ever survived a merger or simply existed in a space that restructured you know not everyone has actually read the updated documents.

Young Just Us is still a thing:

Red Robin/Robin III - Tim Drake

Wonder Girl II - Cassandra Sansmark

Superboy I - Conner Kent

Kid Flash II - Bart Allen

Arrowette - Cissie King-Jones (Retired)

Secret - Greta Heyes (Retired)

Empress - Anita Fite

The Outlaws: [as of right now the Outlaws are outside the oversight of JL and therefore outside being able to readily use JL or FT resources like medical easily without a lot of flexibility that they can do but why would they]

Red Hood - Jason Todd

Starfire - Koriand’r

Arsenal - Roy Harper

Artemis - Artemis of Bana-Mighdall

Bizarro

So those are the established teams, I am running with right now. There are likely auxiliary teams in the future I will make when the story suits. (hats off for how much canon I have to choose from)

On that note Batfamily:

Important Ages to Note:

Alfred Pennyworth (-Wayne) - Pretty sure has beef with Ra about giving immortals a bad name, and I will not be taking critique on this.

Bruce Wayne - 26 (when he became Batman),

Dick Grayson - 10 (Robin I), 18 (Nightwing)

Cassandra Cain - 8 (when she ran away from her father), 17 (Batgirl II)

Jason Todd - 12 (Robin II), 15 (when he died), 18 (Red Hood)

Stephanie Brown - 15 (when she became Spoiler), 17 (when she was Robin IV), 18 (Batgirl III)

Tim Drake - 13 (Robin III), 17 (Red Robin)

Duke Thomas - 17 (Signal)

Damian Wayne - 11 (Robin V) Current Ages:

Bruce Wayne - 42

Dick Grayson - 26

Cassandra Cain - 21

Jason Todd - 21

Stephanie Brown - 20

Tim Drake - 19

Duke Thomas - 18

Damian Wayne - 13

----

Also because I worked hard on it: BEHOLD THE BAT SUCCESSION

Dick Grayson, Robin I, Nightwing I, Batman II (Defunct)

Barbara Gordon, Batgirl I, Oracle

Cassandra Cain, Batgirl II, The Orphan, Batman III.

Jason Todd, Robin II, Red Hood, Batman IV.

Tim Drake, Robin III, Red Robin, Nightwing II.

Duke Thomas, Signal I, Red Robin II, Batman V

Stephanie Brown, Robin IV, Spoiler, Batgirl III

Damian Wayne, Robin V, Nightwing III, Batman IV.

----

Also it is important that I make this clear:

Bruce is not winning any dad of the year awards in my sandbox. He has his good moments, but he also has his bad. He is imperfect that in different time and perspectives is either refusing to change or has decided to be be better. So there will be what many call 'bad dad bruce', but there will also be 'good dad bruce' cause the batfurry is complex like that. I like playing with characters like that. So you are forewarned.

-

Tags to Watch if you want more of this:

#No one but a Robin gets to decide Robin

#riz's bat family canon

[bitimdrake]

hi! i read your dc timeline (fantastic job btw) and had trouble following all the titans/teen titans/young justice/outsiders stuff. so i was wondering what's the difference between those four groups/how many iterations of each group there were/who were their members?

Thanks! The differences between these groups is fairly easy to answer. The membership and iterations...not so much. I will first link to my (Teen) Titans reading order, which gives the gist of each era, and my Young Justice reading order (both preboot only).

Like any teams that last more than a few years, all four of those teams have had various iterations with various lineups. At the most basic level:

"Teen Titans" was initially a team of the original sidekicks (think Dick, Donna, Wally, etc), but has since become the default name for DC's current team of young heroes, whoever they may be.

"Titans" is specifically used for teams with that original generation of sidekicks, but now grown up as adults.

"Young Justice" is for the 90s generation of kid heroes (okay, some introduced in the 80s; think Tim, Bart, Cassie, etc), and has really only been used as a name for that group/generation.

And "Outsiders" is actually typically a Batman-led team of fully adult heroes that has the least overlap here--except for one particular iteration of the team in 2003 with young adult heroes, including Dick, Roy, and Kory.

tl;dr: The Titans and Young Justice are based on specific groups, the Teen Titans are any kid heroes, and the Outsiders are mostly irrelevant just with one major exception.

This means that:

Young Justice and the Titans have existed at the same time, one as the teen generation of Tim/Bart/etc, one as the young adult generation of Dick/Donna etc.

The Teen Titans and the Titans have existed at the same time. Though the naming is more confusing here, the idea is the same: the Teen Titans are the teen heroes (typically Tim-generation for this, maybe even younger), and the Titans are the Dick-generation young adults.

In recent years, the Teen Titans and Young Justice have existed at the same time. Young Justice remains the Tim-generation, and the Teen Titans are either an even newer, younger team (think Damian, Crush), or just DC's latest attempt at capitalizing on the famous name (typically with the characters known from the animated show: Raven, Cyborg, etc).

The Outsiders may or may not have existed in conjunction with any number of these, because they usually draw from a whole different set of potential characters.

As for the number of iterations and list of members...Yeah. Putting that under a cut.

A Pre-Flashpoint History

I’m going to thoroughly cover Titans/Teen Titans/Young Justice here, but I will be a lot less detailed on the Outsiders because I don’t know them as well.

The Teen Titans I (60s, 70s) sprang out of a team up between Dick Grayson/Robin, Wally West/Kid Flash, and Garth/Aqualad. The team was officially founded and formed by the fab five: those three, plus Donna Troy/Wonder Girl and Roy Harper/Speedy.

This team would have like a dozen other members at various points over the years, including Lilith Clay, Mal Duncan/Guardian/Herald, and Hank and Don Hall/Hawk and Dove.

They also briefly had a mostly-offscreen spinoff, the Titans West, which included such members as Gar Logan/Beast Boy, Bette Kane/Flamebird, and Hawk and Dove.

The Teen Titan got together in mid adolescence, and had a lot of cheesy adventures against such foes as Mad Mod and Ding Dong Daddy. They broke up when many members starting going off to college or otherwise moving on in life.

The New (Teen) Titans (80s), reassembled by Raven to fight her father, were half a reformation of old members (Dick, Donna, Wally, plus Gar now going by Changeling) and half new members (Raven, Koriand'r/Starfire, Vic Stone/Cyborg). As they were already all 18-19 when the team started--minus youngster Gar--the "Teen" was soon dropped from the name. Wally would end up leaving this team, and others like Joey Wilson/Jericho, Kole, and Danny Chase would join. Former Titans and allies, like Roy and Garth, would periodically show up to help out as well.

This run took a more serious tone and had a lot of character progression. It's when many of the first generation of sidekicks changed identities: Robin to Nightwing, Wonder Girl to Troia and later no codename, Speedy to Arsenal, etc. It also introduced such villains as Slade Wilson/Deathstroke (including the famous Judas Contract story with Terra), HIVE, Brother Blood, and Komand'r/Blackfire.

The original Outsiders I were also formed in the 80s, led by Batman and including iconic members like Black Lightning and Katana.

In the early 90s, the New Titans fell apart for a variety of terrible reasons and had massive shifts in membership. Half of them left or died or were completely changed; others like Leonid Kovar/Red Star, Pantha, and Miriam Delgado/Mirage joined, and the whole thing was a mess.

After a lot of spiraling, the team was almost entirely swapped to a largely new group funded by the government and led by Roy/Arsenal, including Gar, Miriam, Grant Emerson/Damage, Kyle Rayner/Green Lantern, Bart Allen/Impulse, Rose Wilson, Martix Supergirl, a maybe-new-maybe-not version of Terra, and more. This group was still under the New Titans name and in the same run, despite little member overlap. They split up when the government pulled funding.

Apparently there was another iteration of the Outsiders II briefly in the mid-90s, but I truly cannot tell you much about it. Still unrelated to the younger generations.

The Teen Titans II (mid 90s) were the first group to use the name with zero tie to the founders. Led by a de-aged Ray Palmer/Atom, this group consisted of teens kidnapped by aliens and genetically modified--Toni Monetti/Argent, Isiah Crockett/Joto, Audrey Spears/Prysm, and Cody Discoll/Risk. This run only lasted a couple years.

Young Justice I (late 90s/early 00s) sprang out of a team up between Tim Drake/Robin, Superboy (later named Kon-el), Bart Allen/Impulse, and Secret. The team shortly added Cassie Sandsmark/Wonder Girl and Cissie King-Jones/Arrowette, and later Anita Fite/Empress, Slobo, and Ray Terril/Ray. Under the vague mentorship of Red Tornado, this group had wacky coming of age adventures.

This is also when teams start to overlap:

The Titans I (late 90s/early 00s) formed out of the original (teen) Titans just really missing each other, okay? This team melded together the original fab five (Wally now the Flash; Garth now Tempest), Cyborg and Starfire of the original New Titans, Grant/Damage of Arsenal's New Titans, Toni/Argent of the second Teen Titans, and new-to-the-titans Jesse Quick. Other old Titans appeared here and there (Rose Wilson as Lian's babysitter <3), and a number of the starting group left along the way.

Events in 2003 broke up both Young Justice and the Titans simultaneously, and members shuffled around.

A few of the now-former Titans joined the Outsiders III (mid 00s), the one version of that team relevant here. The team was formed by Roy and initially led by Dick, and included members like Grace Choi, Anissa Pierce/Thunder, Metamorpho/Shift, and later Jennifer-Lynn Hayden/Jade and Kory/Starfire. This team was kind of a disaster (compliment) and the series took an adult tone with mature themes.

(Note: I dig the 2003 Outsiders, but there was no reason for them to be called the Outsiders. It’s just hollow name reuse for no reason.)

Meanwhile, the Teen Titans III (mid 00s-early 10s) formed with a combination of older members from the New Titans--like Kory, Vic, and Gar (Beast Boy again)--and younger members from Young Justice--Tim, Cassie, Kon-El Conner Kent, and Bart. Others like Raven and Mia Dearden/Speedy joined later.

Honestly I’m having a hard time cleanly describing the tone/identity of this series. It was a superheroes series about a team of young heroes/sidekicks. Idk. It exists and ran for a long time.

After the Infinite Crisis in 2006, everything in DC jumped One Year Later. Over the course of that missing year, the Teen Titans had a variety of rotating, mostly second-string members. But that’s really just briefly seen in 52 and never had any real appearances, so whatever.

After One Year Later, the team did have a major shake up. All the young adult members left, leaving just the teens, and many new members joined. And left. And joined. And left. I think Cassie is the only consistent member. There is a lot of turnover in the back half of this series, but some Teen Titans here include: Rose Wilson/Ravager, M’gann Morzz/Miss Martian, Eddie Bloomberg/Kid Devil/Red Devil, Jaime Reyes/Blue Beetle, and Amy Allen/Bombshell.

This constantly-rotating team would last all the way until the New 52.

Meanwhile the older generation kept switching:

The Outsiders also had a shake up after One Year Later, when it turned out they were all now fugitives for accidentally maybe doing some bad stuff. (Most important to me, Roy left so what is even the point now. “Dick is still there,” yeah but he’s not being a bitch (entertaining) anymore; he’s just grumpy.) Much of the team was gone by now, but they added Owen Mercer/Captain Boomerang Jr and Katana.

Only like a year (irl) later, Batman decided he wanted this to be his team again, and almost the entirety of the team swapped out for the Outsiders IV, which was more like the original/standard line-up, with only a few from the unusual 2003 iteration.

With the Outsiders a team of real adults again, many of the young adults were freed up. And you know what that means! Titans II (late 00s): these friends truly cannot stay away from each other. It’s a combination of the original team and the NTT: Dick, Roy (now Red Arrow), Donna, Wally, Kory, and Vic.

And also Gar and Raven kept moving between the Titans and the Teen Titans, because DC couldn’t decide how old they were supposed to be after Raven’s de-aging.

Despite the great line-up, these Titans were not to last, as DC was making a lot of changes and half the characters had other things to do. Dick had to replace a missing Bruce as Batman. Wally was always over-taxed as the Flash on the JLA and the Titans. Roy’s daughter was killed, leading him to relapse, in what everyone naively thought was the worst writing Roy would ever have before the New 52 proved just how much worse it could get. The team fell apart.

Slade Wilson/Deathstroke swooped in to form the Titans: Villains for Hire (early 10s) a team of villains and morally grey characters like Cheshire, Osiris, and [deep sigh] downward spiral Roy (now Arsenal once again), all with their own agendas.

(Note: it’s dumb as hell that this team was called the Titans. It was even more hollow name re-use. Come on, DC, just make up a new name for once.)

In the very end, the villain part split and there was a glimmer that a healing Roy and a resurrected/not evil (long story) Joey Wilson might make a new Titans team, an abandoned idea that lingers in my mind to this day...

But t’was not to be because--

A Prime Earth History

Flashpoint blew up and rebooted the entire universe.

This recap will be shakier, as I have not read anything from the latter part of it. (Still trapped in the New 52 over here.) Also I’m going to stop recapping the Outsiders entirely, sorry.

In the New 52, all history and most of what made DC good was erased. The Titans had never existed.

The (New 52) Teen Titans IV (early/mid 10s) were, in their continuity, the first team of that name. This team included rebooted, in-name only versions of Tim Drake [redacted]/Red Robin, Cassie Sandsmark/Wonder Girl, Kon-El/Superboy, Bart Allen Bar Torr/Kid Flash, Kiran Singh/Solstice, Miguel Barragan/Bunker, etc.

The theme of this run was “bad writing” and the tone was “awful”. Somehow it lasted the entire New 52 and into Rebirth.

My knowledge is really, really shaky after this:

The (Rebirth) Titans III (late 10s) formed with the original generation finally reunited, after fans revolted in the face of DC trying to erase Wally West from existence. This team had the fab five and fellow original (Teen) Titan, Lilith/Omen.

Then the (Rebirth) Teen Titans V (late 10s) formed, with a bunch of iconic young adult characters like Kory, Vic, and Gar, plus teenager Wallace West/Kid Flash (not that one; there are two Wally Wests now) and Damian Wayne/Robin. Apparently Damian is the leader of this team despite being the only child on it and. why. I don’t understand.

At some point that team revamped and became entirely a team of youngsters like Damian, Wallace, the new Red Arrow/Emiko Queen, and Xiomara Rojas/Crush.

Young Justice II (late 10s/early 20s) reformed after a while, with the universe slowly restoring bits from New Earth. This team was Kon, Bart, Tim, Cassie, and a few new peers like Jinny Hex and Teen Lantern.

The (Teen?) Titans Academy (early 20s) I believed formed with the idea of older, established Titans like Vic, Donna, Kory, etc mentoring a whole bunch of very new young heroes who I’m looking at the wiki list for and boy that’s a lot of names. Huh. I think this one is still ongoing?

Which means we have reached the present, and my list now ends.

I wonder if this makes the top 5 for my longest posts.

[random-sparks-98]

Sunlit Gotham Universe Notes

Batfam Notes:

- Due to moving around the batfam timeline a bit, Jason is the only one who has died who has been fully buried and then revived (Steph’s heart stopped for about three minutes when Black Mask captured her, and Damian has not been killed.)

- Damian came to Gotham earlier than canon, and is currently 10 years old and in 4th grade at Gotham Academy

- Jon Kent is also going to be the same age as Damian in this AU

- Jason Todd is going be announced as Legally Alive before the beginning of the story (Yes, he is still Red Hood, but he doesn’t kill anymore (most of the time))

- Bruce will NOT be going missing in time

- This means that Tim never drops out of high school, gets emancipated, and becomes CEO of a company at the age of 17. It also means that Dick will not have been Batman

- Selina and Bruce are dating - he’s gonna probably propose soon, but big life events keep happening (like adopting new children every few months) so he hasn’t yet. He claims he’s waiting for a time when everything is calm. His children call bullshit and say he’s just scared she’ll say no

- Selina totally knows that he already has the ring and is honestly just teasing him and stressing him out more by making comments and jokes every so often

How does Wonder Woman not know about the demigods?

- When the Greek Amazons went to live on Themyscira they became cut off from the rest of the mortal world. This means that they weren’t aware of Camp moving around to follow Olympus

- Diana was born WAY before the First Great Prophecy, and technically isn’t a true demigod because she was sculpted from clay - therefore not really part mortal

- By the time Diana had left the island, demigods had gone underground and general society forgot that they existed. Both camps are kept secret so that the demigods are safe, so Diana hasn’t heard about them and assumes that the demigods are just no more

- Due to the Mist, Off World League Missions, Rescue Ops, and the fact that she lived in Paris for a while, Diana hasn’t been around during any of the major battles - or her focus was elsewhere

- Donna Troy might show up at some point, and the same logic about leaving Themyscira works for her too. We’re going with the Magical Duplicate origin story for her, so again, doesn’t quite count as mortal enough for the prophecy

- Cassie Sandsmark originally used magical artifacts to help Diana fight crime and was later ret-conned into being either a daughter of Zeus or a granddaughter of Zeus. The ret-con is going to be brought up in the story and we can all thank the Flashes for messing up the timeline. But basically she doesn’t become a proper descendant of Zeus until after the Titan War and therefore the prophecy doesn’t apply to her either

Children of Apollo have the following abilities According to the Riordan Wiki:

- They can curse others to only speak in rhyming couplets that can take days or even weeks to wear off (depending on strength and number of people in the spell)

- They are expert archers, inherited from their father. However, the children of Apollo who are healers tend to be less skilled with this (as seen with Will Solace)

- They also excel at anything involving throwing or shooting stuff, like shooting hoops or shooting firearms or other missile weapons 

- They are skilled in physical contests and games

- They excel in the arts

- They are skilled musicians

- Vitakinesis: As the children of Apollo, they are natural healers. They can heal people by singing a hymn to their father (in Ancient Greek).

- Audiokinesis: As the children of Apollo, they have the ability to control sound waves and music

- It is extremely rare that a child of Apollo can possess complete photokinesis, as only Apollo himself and the Titan of Light, Hyperion, and the Titan of the Sun, Helios, have been known to use the ability

- From what can be gleaned from The Demigod Diaries, it can be presumed that some, or even all of Apollo's children possess a limited form of precognition

- Thanks to a curse, all the children of Apollo have a terrible fear of snakes

In this AU, souls have auras that are unique to each soul. Demigod children with parent’s who deal with light (ex: Apollo or Iris) can see the auras if they focus really hard. Children of Apollo will often use it as a way to check how well a patient is healing as the brighter the aura the healthier the person.

[thebisexualdogdad]

I need more of the Donna and Ra’s son!!!

Donna Troy x male!reader

Part 1

● now that the Titans know about you and Donna some of them have accepted you into the group while others disagree with the decision

● Kory, Dawn, Connor and Gar believed you when you said you hadn't spoken to your father Ra's in years and had no allegiance to him

● while Jason, Hank and Rachel didn't which you can't blame them for, you probably wouldn't trust you either if you were in their position

● Dick hasn't made his mind up yet but wants to give you the benefit of the doubt

● plus he finds it helpful to have someone who knows first hand how the mind of one of Batman's most dangerous enemies works

● Jason "why the hell would the son of Ra's Al Ghul suddenly want to be a good guy? You know he was trained to be a violent killer right?"

● Donna "he's not that person anymore and we've been together for a year, if he really wanted to kill us he would have by now"

● "she's right, I know seven different ways to kill every single one of you in this exact moment but I won't"

● Donna "babe you're not helping"

● "right sorry, but for the record I haven't actually killed that many people, my father didn't let me leave Nanda Parbat often. I couldn't exactly be his secret weapon if I was out there killing people all willy nilly"

● there's still tension but Donna doesn't let it get to her

● she loves you and knows you love her too

● Hank and Jason refuse to let you move into the tower so you continue to live in your apartment

● which you're fine with because it's the only place you and Donna can get any sort of privacy

● whenever you're at the tower Jason and Hank watch your every move to make sure you're not snooping around somewhere you're not supposed to

● Kory "really Rachel, you condone them acting like this?"

● Rachel "I'm not saying people can't change but he's an ex assassin of all things so I have to be a little suspicious of his motives"

● Kory "how many bad guys do you know make chocolate chip pancakes in a 'kiss the cook' apron"

● you from the kitchen with stacks on stacks of pancakes for the whole team "breakfast is ready!"

● Gar and Connor however wished you lived in the tower not only so you could cook for them more often but also so you could have more video game all nighters together

● when you play online from home Donna tempts you with… other activities to get you to turn the game off

● she'll be standing in the doorway of your bedroom unbuttoning her shirt

● "are you really going to make me go to bed alone?"

● you into your headset mic "sorry guys I gotta go"

● Gar "Wait what we are in the middle of a match!" but you're already gone fumbling out of your clothes as you follow Donna to bed

● one night the Titans are ambushed by someone dressed head to toe in black with their face covered by a mask

● you immediately recognize the fighting style and can only hope you're wrong about who you are up against

● but when they have you pinned to the ground with their sword and lift their mask you unfortunately discover you were correct

● Nyssa "hi little brother"

● "...Shit"

[literaryspinster]

What actually happened between Dick and Kory

Since folks (especially on Twitter) still want to act confused and appear to be watching entirely via the timeline. This isn’t covering all of it and of course there were plenty of unrelated subplots on this show, but as far as Dick and Kory’s relationship goes, this feels like a pretty accurate rundown to me.

Season 1 Rachel Roth wants Dick Grayson to help her because she’s frightened by her powers and the sinister people who are interested in them. Dick does not think he can handle it so he tries to leave her in the care of his old friends Hank and Dawn, Dawn being an ex-girlfriend who may still have unresolved and unrequited feelings for him. Rachel ends up getting kidnapped by the small bad of the season and Kory Anders, who does not remember anything about her past, rescues her.

Dick tries to get Rachel back but is now forced to bring Kory along because Kory and Rachel have bonded and Kory will not leave her side. Rachel runs off after her powers blow up a building and Dick and Kory go after her, bicker for a while, and end up softening toward each other when Dick realizes that this lady is pretty cool and wise and caring actually.

Once they get Rachel back and decide to bring her new friend Gar along as well, they are able to stop at a motel and take a breath, where they end up having casual sex that may be a little more than casual but more on that later. Rachel and Gar run away again to go after Rachel’s newly discovered mom who is being held prisoner, Kory and Dick go after them and end up getting captured and tortured for the effort. After getting free, Dick finds some goons experimenting on Kory and beats the shit out of them even though he’s been drugged and can barely stand. They sleep together again, but Dick is still struggling with a lot so he decides they should go their separate ways. Kory understands, they promise to try again once they figure themselves out. He goes after Kory again once he realizes that she might hurt Rachel (which he understands is through no fault of her own) but ends up getting whammied by the big bad who traps him in a delusion, making him think he’s married to Dawn (who has been completely absent for the last five episodes). The delusion climaxes when he believes Kory has died by his father’s hand and ends up killing him to avenge her, not his “wife,” but Kory, whom he has known for a few days at this point.

Season 2 With the big bad vanquished, Dick asks Kory to come along with him on the road, but with her memories restored and her situation complicated by that, she declines (that’s right, she says no to him, not the other way around), he decides to dedicate his time to helping his young charges learn how to fight while Kory has started a crime fighting duo with Dick’s friend Donna Troy (whom just the previous season the fandom was angry about because they thought there might be a romantic thing between her and Dick). Slade, a villain from Dick’s past resurfaces and Donna, Hank and Dawn reunite with Dick to solve the issue. But all three of them do nothing but criticize and admonish Dick for the situation. Meanwhile, Kory reconnects with an ex boyfriend from her homeworld, Faddei, flirts with him and considers going back with him to fulfill her duties. Before she can leave though, Rachel calls, opening up to her about how difficult things have been without her, even though there is a house full of adults she could theoretically talk to.

Kory decides to go help Rachel, reuniting with Dick in the process. After one conversation with Dick she realizes he plans to sacrifice himself to the big bad to free one of his charges, Jason, and protect the others. She intervenes, saving his life and buying enough time for Jason to be saved by the newly arrived Superboy, who ends up getting shot and put into a coma in the process. Dick has a breakdown and goes after the villain while Kory is able to save Superboy with her powers. When Dick returns, he tells his team a dark secret about his past with Slade that causes everyone to turn on him except for Kory and Gar. Kory is contacted by her ex again and can not stay with Dick although she makes it clear that she does not judge him. Faddei is killed and her one way home is destroyed by her sister Kom, causing Kory to spiral and hook up with the first man she sees, luckily he’s pretty nice and does not take advantage of her. Meanwhile Dick, at his lowest point, gets himself arrested. Kory and Rachel reunite and Rachel, troubled by a dream of him dying, pleads with the adults to help him. No one agrees except for Kory, but when they go to break him out he is already gone. They reunite again later, stop the threat and start a new superhero team.

Season 3 The Team now consists of Gar, Superboy, Dick and Kory. Rachel is finding herself in Themyscira, Donna is temporarily dead, and Hank and Dawn are back to living their own lives. Dick and Kory are not together, seemingly because Kory has still not resolved the issue of whether she belongs on Earth or on her homeworld, but they seem to be working well together as friends and teammates. Kory is contacted by the guy she hooked up with during her breakdown and she starts to open up to him about some sleepwalking episodes she’s been having, as he is a licensed therapist.

Meanwhile, Dick is dealing with the recent death of Jason, whom he almost lost in the previous season. He goes home for the funeral and reunites with his father and his ex girlfriend Barbara. Jason comes back to life and starts wreaking havoc so Dick calls on his team, past and present, to help with the situation. Sadly, Hank dies at the hands of Jason, causing Dick to begin spiraling yet again. Frustrated and grieving poorly, Dick consistently butts heads with Barbara, who is now the police commissioner, until Kory firmly tells him to fix the situation. Following her advice, he learns to work with Barbara to solve the problem, and after a big win, he and Barbara get caught up in the moment and share a kiss in secret. Why it’s in secret is not clear as Dick is single at this point and can kiss whoever he wants

Meanwhile, Kom who fucked her over the previous season, has come back. Being the only family she has left, Kory takes mercy on her but does not trust her until she proves herself to the team. Dick, still spiraling and needing to solve the issue without risking the lives of anyone else, ends up dead. Rachel who has returned from Themyscira, teams up with Gar to resurrect him with the Lazarus pit. While in the pit, Dick has a vision of a little girl who looks exactly like Kory and calls him daddy. Once the vision ends, Dick has tears in his eyes and a smile on his face, but cannot dwell on it for too long as everything is still mired in chaos.

Once the threat is dealt with, Kom returns home to take on Kory’s responsibilities, solving the issue of whether or not she can remain on Earth. Dick officially breaks up with Barbara (although it can be argued that their reunion wasn't significant enough to even require a break up) and purchases an RV to take Kory, Gar, Rachel, Superboy and their new friend Tim home, as opposed to traveling via plane. It’s strongly implied that he does this  for the purpose of spending more time with Kory, whom he now realizes he has a future with.

Season 4 While on the road Dick and Kory are now able to spend more time together, as their biggest personal crises have finally been dealt with. They take on the role of co-leaders of the team, flirt and touch almost constantly. Unfortunately, a new threat wipes out Rachel’s powers, forcing Dick to find another magic user to help them. While she and Dick have a sexual history, Kory is unbothered by this, and Dick seems to barely tolerate her until she proves to be very helpful to the team and a good friend to them. She also appears to highly approve of Dick’s relationship with Kory and seems to have a thing for Superboy.

Sometime during the chaos, Kory has a similar vision of the baby she will one day have with Dick, she confronts him about why he didn’t tell her, he responds that he doesn’t know, and they put it aside to continue with the mission. Sadly, Dick’s former fling and the Titans' current ally is killed in a pivotal battle. After the battle, Dick, Kory and Rachel must stop the problem from escalating. In the process, they end up in a town where everyone is brainwashed into allegiance to Trigon the main threat from s1. In an attempt to keep them from succumbing to the same fate, Dick suggests they record some painful memories to bring them back to themselves should they get lost. Unfortunately, Kory falls to brainwashing and believes that she is somebody else. Devastated by this, Dick goes on a rampage, taking down the goons who were partially responsible for doing this to her, he brings brainwashed Kory along after sincerely telling her that he would never leave her. 

While waiting in the car, Kory picks up Dick’s recorder and listens to it, realizing that one of Dick’s most painful memories is the fact that he could not tell Kory how he felt about her after they had sex in the first season. Hearing him say this causes her to get her memories back

Still determined to stop the threat, Kory considers a prophecy that predicts that she has the power to end it, but will die in the process. Dick refuses to entertain this and gets in the way every time she tries to sacrifice herself for the mission. Once they reach the end of their rope, Kory is able to fulfill the terms of the prophecy, leaving Dick visibly broken as he watches her explode in the sky. Fortunately, she is not dead, she floats down and they share a kiss.

The series ends with the two of them deciding to start a life together and Dick heavily implying that he would very much like to have that baby with Kory.

And yeah, that’s pretty much exactly what happened between Dick and Kory on this show. There was never any jealousy, cheating, love triangles or anything of the sort. They did good.

[popculturebuffet]

Superhero Wedding Special III: The Wedding of Wally West and Linda Park

Happy belated valentine's day all you happy people! And it's time once again for my favorite tradition on this blog: the superhero wedding special.

For those just joining us I love a good wedding "episode", wether it be a good tv wedding like Adventure Time or Community, a good wedding movie like Father of the Bride or a good old fashiond superhero wedding. And since there are both so many comic book weddings and so many I haven't covered, for the past three years i've let my patreons each pick one, picked one myself, then put all four in a poll for you fine folks to choose from. First year was a tie between Rogue and Gambit's stolen wedding and Aunt Man and Doc Ock's near marriage that ended in a nuclear explosion off the coast of Canada, and last year Hulking and Wiccan had a quick wedding via mid crossover flashback among friends, then had another celebration for the whole superhero community post crossover.

Both races were tight: one was a tie and last years eeked out a win against the Batman/Catwoman wedding fiasco. So this year was a bit diffrent. Not only did I use Tumblr's minty fresh new poll system.. but the results.. weren't even remotely close.

Yeah Wally and Linda won HALF of the 18 votes for this poll, beating out Emma's choice of Lex Luthor's Space wedding, Kev's roulette wheel choice of the recent Emma Frost Tony Stark Wedding, and Brotoman.exe's runner up Luke Cage and Jessica Jones. All good choices.. but it's clear what the people wanted. Ya'll REALLY love Wally West on here, love him even more with Linda and I wholeheartedly agree. While I didn't see this landslide coming, I'm pleased as punch it happened.

So before we introduce our couple, as is tradition let's track how we got to these nuptials.

Wally was in a weird place when he met Linda, both in and out of universe. In universe.. he'd been turned into a porcupine man somehow and was being hunted by Captain Cold during his stint as a bounty hunter.

Point is he met Linda as a newswoman. Out of universe Wally had a bit of a creative rough patch in the 80's. Wally started the 80's in one of the most influental and important books of the decade and one of it's best, The New Teen Titans. And he was easily.. the weakest member of the team.

See while his teamates were either fresh new characters Wolfman and Perez refined as they went (Starfire, Raven, Cyborg) or ones who had long since needed a new coat of paint and got a second act out of the deal (Dick Grayson, Donna Troy and Beast Boy), Wally.. was the odd man out. The team tried to make him the token conservative and a reluctant hero: one who knows he has a duty but is just.. tired of it and wants to retire. NOthing wrong with that, it can be a good angle. The problem is Wally spends the book either whining about not wanting to be a hero instead of just being honest with his friends, who have plenty of power without him, or declaring raven evil out of hand. And he does have a leg to stand on in not liking her, she made him love her. But instead of focusing on that he just assumes any time she looses control slightly she's evil now and stops carring about her because of something that, unlike the brainwashing thing, was entirely out oc her control. You can read more about all this here in this mammoth I did on the series.

The takeaway is that Wally sucked. Then Crisis on Infinite Earths Happened and Barry died heroically sacrifcing himself. Wally swore at the end of that series he wouldn't become the flash... but one year later with the next crossover Legends he did.

So Wally got his own brand new solo written by Mike Baron who reworked Wally's character.. and somehow made him MORE insufferable, making him into an egotisticla impulsive ladies man who cheated on his girlfriend, let his mother walk all over his new girlfriend, a married woman he was having an affair with. He also was a giant dick to Chunk, a neurotypical genius with black hole powers and planned to exploit him. He also won the lottery, a thing that sure did happen and sure was necessary and not a cheap gimmick no one asked for yes sir.

THe baron run.. was a mess. With Wolfman and perez I can at least see what they were going for and tha tit simply failed. Here I don't know what the fuck Baron was thinking.

Thankfully soon after William Messner Loebs took over, and while i've only read a smidgen of his run and wish more was collected, it's an instant improvment: Wally looses his fortune and becomes more of a relatable every man, the "you could have a beer with him" sort whose just at home at a hockey game as he is fighting snake themed terrorists.

So with Wally's new personality came a stable love intrest in Linda. Linda was just what Wally needed: someone who saw through all his bullshit, that all the swaggering and screwing around was compensating for the mountain of issues he refused ot work through.

Linda ended up seeing enough of Wally's good nature to start dating him casually, which lasted into the Mark Waid run, where the two were truly fleshed out as a couple.. and which i've read a solid chunk of. Mark Waid is seen as the man who truly made wally the flash and it's hard to argue that as Wally grew as a person bit by bit over the run. He was still impulsive, down to earth and quippy as fuck, but the overcompensation, horn doggery and assholishness were gone. He also gave wally his full backstory, and helped him finally get over comparisons to barry, making his speed limit that internalized imposter syndrome I mentiond: he was scared of replacing Barry.. but more scared of letting THIS BASTARD DO IT.... god I gotta cover the Return of Bary Allen sometime.

So through all this growth for Wally, he and linda grew as a couple: When Linda asked just how serious they were Wally balked, then got caught up on a flash thing... before speeding his way on a train to ask her to stay. The two have great chemistry: Linda likes Wally's fun nature, down to earth stylez and the fact he dosen't treat her like she's made of glass.. most of the time (Some incidents shook him up a bit), while Wally loves her no nonsense atittude, the only thing that often cuts thorugh his bullshit when he hyperfixates on his latest problem. She's his rock, he's her roll, and they need that ballance. She keeps him grounded.. and not just in the speed force, as discovering it nearly caused wally to loose himself.. but her love anchored him back.

So their marriage was inevitible and while I coudln't find the proposal issue, it's no suprise it happened: the two loved each other deeply and there's a reason they got so much love in this poll, and it's nice the two are back solidly as a couple with no signs of more ediotial fuckery making one of them not exist or forget the other or whatever.

So with that we're at the wedding. It came towards the end of Mark waid's run, right before Geoff Johns also super special awesome run, with Johns getting to define their married life more. It also begins a bit of a weird arc i'll talk about when we get to the end of the issue btu for now it's a blessed day for a blessed couple under the cut.

Since the wedding itself is supervillain free, we open with a big action set piece. Said set piece is excellent: Waid really knows how to write a flash story and sneakily choose villians who were key to Wally and Linda's history: Kobra

I had to and Mark waid had to know what he was doing introdcuing a snake themed terroist group. Kobra is a cult/terriorst group ran by Kobra with a K. They nearly destroyed Keystone City during the Terminal Velocity arc, with Wally forced to go as fast as he possibly could to save Linda, nearly loosing himself in the process. This is where the anchor thing happened. What I really like is the story.. dosen't bring this up. He just mentions he's "tussled with them" before, so newer readers don't have to get an info dump, but people who've been reading a while get the continuity nod.

It's a fun opener too as Wally zooms around, interogates a guy by shaking him real hard, and finds out Kobra's hiding at Broome Plaza, a nice nod to Wally co-creator John Broome. Kobra can teleport so he nopes out, but wally uses a neat trick: since he's faster than sound, he can catch up to what their saying.. and thus evacuate city hall before their bomb goes off. Said attack annoys wally a little but he's able to catch his marriage certificate. It's a good cold open that gives us some flash action.. and allows the rest of the issue to just be a simple plain clothes wedding.

Granted no wedding is simple and Wally reacts to hearing the cake may be off.. is to kidnap a chef from paris.

I.. I want to know how Wally knows this guy, and why he can just kidnap Pierre at a moment's notice. Did he kindap a random chef or do they have a history? Who was he fighting in paris? he WAS part of Justice League Europe for quite some time so it's plausable but dammit I want this story told Mark.

Linda rather than overreacting.. is greatful she has a soon to be husband whose so kind and considerate he'd run al lthe way to paris to kidnap her a baker. The two get down on the floor but before they can get doooowwnwnnn on the floor Linda's parents walk in. Thankfully their quickly distracted though Wally notices something's off: while Linda's had nothing resembling cold feet she freezes up a bit when Wally brushes off his parents, not even having checked if their coming. As you'll soon se he has every reason not to give a shit.

What he does give a shit about is Linda making Bart, aka impulse the ring bearer. Impulse was Wally's equilvent to kid flash and eventually his kid flash, before Wally became Wally's kid flash more recently. That wasn't a typo, there are two of them, it's not important to any of this.

For those less familiar with my boy, Bart is a hyperactive mess, having been raised in virtual reality simulation in the future and thus having trouble slowing down, not helped by being a speedster whose all but said to have ADHD. Wally's relationship with bart's a contrast to Barry's with him: While Barry was a fair mentor and the father Wally needed, Wally.. simply dosen't have the patience to actually train his young ward. Wally and Bart are too much alike, both impulsive, both running a mile a minute, and thus Bart was trained instead by Wally's own secondary mentor Max Mecury, a golden age speedster who has nothing BUT patience and when Max went into comic limbo, the almost as patent first flash Jay Garrick took the reigns. It's a detail I like as it not only set up Bart's own series well but makes sense: Wally can help Bart in small doses and dosen't abandon him, but simply can't handle the kid. It's telling that noawadays while he's taken a roll in mentoring his cousin, Wallace is both way calmer and Wally's matured enough from being a parent to actually handle being a mentor.

Thankfully Linda has patience for both of them and takes care of bart in a really clever way

Sadly the good times can't last and Wally's parents arrive and we see WHY he was so aphrensive about them showing up.

Yeah besides the .. questionable gifts, Waid does a godo job showing WHY he dosen't like them without getting into their histories: Wally's dad gives him a cheap gift and brings a date younger than his own son, and Wally's Mom's every action towards him is some veiled crticisim. Their awful and waid has never sugacoated that, and their constant baggering may explain New Teen Titans era wally in canon: Wally was less himself at the time because he was BADLY trying to be what they wanted and once he got the freedom of being the flash, he snapped back into being who he truly was.

Wally gets them to go away by playing "LOOK A RELATIVE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT THEIR INHERTIANCE" and linda tenses up again, not getting at WHY she keeps doing that. Wally is quickly distracted by this hair crime

Oh all the ways i'm going to have fun with this. Okay for starters Dick, your the son of the world's greatest detective. Bruce has taught you better wig game than that and you damn well know it. 80's metal hair is not Nightwing level disguise work Richard.

Second... how is the "Theodore Logan" look less conspcious than the adopted son of a millionare being friends with a public figure?

Third: All this is going to do is have papparzi asking "Whose Wally West's Best Man?". Does Dick have a cover identity all set up for this or did he only think of this plan the 5 minutes it took to buy a "babies first winger costume" wig.

Fourth: right after the rest of the titans show up, and Donna herself is a public figure, having taken pictures of starfire and being a high profile fashion photographer, Roy himself is ward of a billionare and Garth has no secret identity. how is "bruce wayne's son" any less conspcious.

And fifth WHY of all the wigs did he choose a perm that resembles their teammate jericho they watched get stabbed in front of them not a year ago probably in universe. Maybe two.

To my shock by the end Joey was apparently fronting whitesnake so what the hell dick. Why remind all your many friends present "oh yeah remember our friend who got stabbed in the chest in front of us".

So the rest of the titans arrive and somehow don't razz Dick for this hair crime, though even through that perm dick can sense somethin'gs off with linda. We get mor ehints why as Wally dosen't intorduce the titans to his family: Linda was the one to invite them and while he's glad they came he's not really.. close to any of them. The people he is make a bit more of an intrance, as the JLA arrive, with Superman worried about paparazzi. I mean dick will never live down that perm if they see it.

Wally kept the location on the DL.. which won't really stop paparazzi , even 90's paparazzi, and just makes Dick's hair somehow more rediculous. Any more and it'll become a force unto itself.

Thankfully more of Wally's REAL family shows up: Iris. for those wondering why this is a big deal at the time Iris was living in the future: she's from the 30th century, it's a long story, point is she stayed there after Barry's death both to raise her kids and to avoid spoiling the future. Ironically she'd come back full time during the next run as the future changed enough she had no idea what to expect, but for now Wally's worried she'll give her dad a heart attack.. only for her to explain she already went and saw her dad and explained stuff. Family is important.

This finally snaps Linda's bugging into focus for Wally: family. Wally's been icing his out and THAT'S what linda keeps being nervous about. So , not supposed to see the bride be dammned, he goes to iron this out in a beautiful scene that both explains WHY he's like this to his family, something we've clearly seen, and why Linda's in no danger

IT's really well done, and I like that Wally acknowledges his extended family.. did nothing wrong. He was just so determined to keep his parents away he accidently kept them away too and geninely wants to work on it. I don't think he DOES, but the comic both changes gears then changes writers after this, and I can't blame Geoff for not following up on this. He was never scared of her.. he just has bad parents.

I also like that the comic has the aseop that it's ENTIRELY okay Wally wants to push his parents away and wants nothing to do with them. There are far too many bits of media that ar elike "Oh your birth family is important, you shouldn't pusht hem away. Your parents mean something".. but forget that sometimes parents are abusive shit stains. I was lucky to get a wonderful mom and a dad I can at least talk to, but not everyone has a good relationship with their parents or wants to be around them. WE've seen how little they actually care about wally or his big day, and how much having them there throws him off. Yet we've also subtly seen.. wally HAS family. He's found family with the titans, with the League. You don't need blood to be a family. You just need love, to respect one another and to be there.. and Wally and LInda have that.

So it's time for the ceremony with the wedding party apparently only consisting of Beavis, Jesse Quick (Close ally of Wally's and fellow speedster) and Bart. It's then Wally realizes something and handles it like the responsible about to be married man he is.

Yeah the fastest man alive, who was hovering over his wife as she planned this ceremony... forgot his vows. it's so wally it hurts and i'm here for it. Thankfully he's the fastest man alive and after thinking back on their history, the good, the bad, and how she's always made him feel... he simply says his vows from the gut, which really is again the most wally west thing imaginable and i'm still here for it.

It's a beautiful speech that sums up their relationship, what they mean..and is also something Wally REALLY shoudl've thought through. You'd think after a decade as a superhero, at least he'd know not to tempt fate as suddenly.. Linda dosen't exisit. Wally finds something with her name, asks dick about it, Dick assumes wally horny Richard, and Dick dosen't even question the haunted wig in his apartment. Linda is trapped and yeah that's how the issue ends.

Yeah, the big milestone wedding.. ends with a fucking kidnapping and leads into an arc I haven't gotten to. And look i'll do a LOT for reasearch, I just covered 20 some issues of Transformers Robots in Disguise so I could cover the crossover with More than Meets the Eye next month, entirely so i'd do it right.. but even i'm not so through that i'd read 18 issues of the flash in an arc i'm eh about reading some day but will probably get to complete the mark waid run for a one and a half issue review.

So the short version of what you missed: Wally disappeared into time and space without LInda to anchor him. Replacing him was Wallace West, an angsty wally from another timeline who replaced him for a while, a storyline I mostly know about because it leaked into JLA for a bit, with Wally revealing his identity to a few people to get their trust. Wallace was the darker and edgier flash no one asked for, fought crime, fell in love... and then Wally came back and rescued LInda, who it turned out had been kidnapped by his old nemisis Abra Kadabra, a magician from the 60th century who as you can tell by how elaborate and dickish this plot is, has a flair for both trying to ruin wally's life and the dramatic. Hilaroiusly, as I read, Wally gets him to undo it.. by pointing out no one knew what he did. So Wallace was supposed to go back and go back miserable because fuck him for wanting to be happy I guess. Can you kinda.. see why I have no real intrest in this storyline outside of Wally and LInda? Maybe pick that up?

So for expediency's sake and to give us a better ending we WILL be covering the flash #159.. but just the wally and linda parts as we don't really need Wallace's dramatic exit.

We do start on it though as the League demands he go home and can't take his girlfriend with him. He picked up a girlfriend it's a thing. Superman is being an uncharactristic super ass while Wally is being less than helpful.. albeit given Wallace DIN'T have his memories of Linda erased and could've been helping them, I can't say I blam ehim.

So once Wallace leaves to have one last good day, Bart, having the tact of a tornado on roller skates, asks when the wedding resumes. Wally decides right the fuck now and speeds into actoin to get everything: catering, her parents farmhouse ready again, the lisence.

Wally spends the day even more hyperactive than usual... which is somehow indeed possible. The superheroes around Linda assure her it's fine, with Donna being the only one to make sure things haven't changed. Linda still LOVES wally.. but she can see something's wrong. And unlike with her on the previous wedding day, Wally's FAR less subtle about it so I don't know why no one else is like "okay maybe we shoudl check on him.

We get to the wedding itself.. and Linda holds it, not wanting to Marry wally while he's having what's clearly a barely supressed emotoinal breakdown.

I love this because it really.. boils down their dynamic: Linda loves wally, who he is and dosen't doubt that for a second.. but she's also 9/10 the one who pulls his head out of his ass. Wally's a good guy, we've seen it here.. but he acts first asks later, and LInda's one the remind him that you have to slow down every once in a while and have a conversation. Also yeah, between Dick's wig and Clark's super pope hat he's bummed he didn't get to wear to this because you bastards didn't ask him to officiate, they've seen weirder.

Wally agrees, yeah that's it. He saw a version of himself who went down a dark path.. and really wasn't THAT diffrent. All it took was loosing linda, which is WHY Walter is an edgelord for the record. Linda.. isn't amused, especially since Wally implies part of this is to widen the gap between them. Wally's friends are.. less than sympathetic. Well okay Roy is. It's just roy actually, Max is worried and Jay knows they just need to work it out and will. But roy well..

That is both a perfect exchange for those two.. and entirely why Roy isn't invited to weddings that much. I only think he got into this one as Donna's +1.

Wally however.. assures her that's not the case and once again gets a fantastic speech in

It's a heartfelt speech and get's linda to just.. skip to the i dos, the two kiss and one of the most solid marriages in all of comcis begins. It's a beautiful speech.

As for the issues themselves.. their okay. Yeah for such a great couple and with so many great moments, the first issue feels a bit short, like we needed more time for the wedding and the whole stupid kidnapping plot means we get cheated out of a reception, which as we've seen from both Rogue and Gambit and Teddy and Billy's nuptial's, is often some of the best stuff, allowing a bunch of characters to bounce off each other. Instead since the circumstances are dire after the intital wedding and dire right before the makeup, with our heroes recovering for it, we don't really get to have FUN with this. There's good moments, but these weddings are a bit of a disapointment and I don't know what Mark Waid or Ediotiral was thinking with this. It's still JUST good enough to not be a complete waste of your time, I recommend at least 142, but it still coudl've been SO much better and it's a shame this is the first wedding for this feature I just. .haven't been that jazzed about. I wanted to like it. the art for the first issue does not help, being all kinds of rediuclous and giving us the enternal shame that is Dick Grayson's perm.

So where did Wally and LInda go from here? Well honestly.. marital bliss at first. As I said Geoff Johns run, a brilliant followup to what Mark Waid did that brought back the Rogues after Waid wrote them out and redefined Captain Cold, follows them as newlyweds: they deal with space, moving, and LInda going back to college for a subplot that ultimately goes nowhere outside of one kidnapping by a prince from another dimension. Story for another time.

The two were solid for the most part and even had an unexpected suprise: TWINS. The two were happy to start their family... but unfortuantely Wally's freshly minted new arch enemy Zoom undid the babies out of his warped thinking tragedy makes better heroes. Which it often does, but feels like a critqiue on piling on tragedy because "that's what sueprheroes are". Granted Geoff Johns isn't innocent of this, but it's still a good lesson.

Afterwards Hal Jordan wiped everyone's memories of wally's identity and after re learning it Linda disappeared before coming back, the babies were restored, and the two had a happy marriage again with kids till infinite crisis. Then wally was put through the SHIT for nigh on a decade until a recent return, a wonderful run you should check out by Jeremey Whitley and a sci fi run I haven't that sounds neat by by my Boy Simon Spurrier. The two aren't without conflict. .but they have a love and understanding that makes them get past it. Wally and Linda have a beautiful relationship and I can't wait to see them again on this blog some day.

For now thanks for reading.

[igotanidea]

Toxic : Dick grayson x reader pt 2

Just FYI: As I mentioned I changed the readers proffesion (forensic scientist and tech expert) and her alias - to Flux (you'll figure it out), but everything else is the same.

I made a life for myself outsider of Gotham. Leaving the past behind hoping it would never come running after me. Since I was always interested in science and criminology (no surprise given my adoptive father’s side job) I became a forensic scientist and technician for the LAPD. I worked hard to become to best in my profession and the one people relied on. What was funny, despite my rather reserved outside and dislike of any office gossip I was also known as the one who gave the best advice. Maybe it was because of my abilities. Oh, and speaking of that other part of me, I tried to give up on them. Being Ghost just did not work out anymore so I made a choice of being ordinary, no-super-enhanced YN. Funny thing was that despite my quitting they developed. After year one I discovered that apart from being an empath I could also draw people’s energy and use it to form some sort of shields and protections. Shit. Is that what you get when you try to bury the past?

But this, this was fine. I was still able to make it work in line with my normal life. I got back in touch with an old friend, Donna Troy aka Wonder Girl, who used to be my best friend back in the titans day. We worked quite well together, her extravert nature filling well enough for my introversion and vice versa. We met from time to time, keeping our friendship afloat. Once she made a mistake of asking me about what happened in Gotham that made me run away and whether this concerned Dick (after all he was her friend too), but I shoved her off, probably a bit harsher than intended. But I knew she understood my motives.

Life was good for a couple of freaking years. And then all Hell broke loose. By some crazy accident I came to the information that our department will be energized by the new detective. Normally I would let this news pass me by without giving any more thought into it, but when I got the notification of the upcoming employee I could not believe my own eyes. We would like to inform you that starting today we will have another detective on board. Please give warm welcome to detective Dick Grayson. Fuck! What the hell was he doing here? Was it some undercover mission for Batman? Surely he did not know I was working here as well. It’s been such a long time and I thought I was over feelings for him. Ha, ha, ha….. Good joke apparently. Thank god I had my lab on the other side of the floor so, luck help me, we would not be seeing each other too often. Knowing myself and knowing Dick, this could got awkward.

Thoughts and memories started bombarding my head up the point where I forgot about “starting today” part of the message and if it wasn’t for some other detectives who saw me sitting and staring at the wall I would just miss this warm welcome. Not that I would complain if it were to happen. But they were reluctant to all my excuses starting from the pettiest one like “I got a lot of work to do” ending on the most unbelievable one’s like “I got an old injury in my leg back and I can’t move.” Damn detectives. They just dragged me out of the office into the conference room.

“What is this? A kindergarten party?” I muttered crossing my arms and trying to stand in the back

“Oh, come on YN, don’t be grumpy. You are going absolutely wild in this solitary lab of yours. Aren’t you at least a bit curious about the new meat?” detective Todd Carson asked me

“Nope. Not even a little.”

“I’ve heard he is hot, you know. You could use some distraction” Amanda, the secretary winked at me.

“Leave the girl be, guys.” Captain Sarah Anders cut them off, as always when situations get a bit more serious. “we are still at work and you know the  HR policy on the matter of relationship between coworkers.”

“Thank you captain” I sighed “can I just go back to the …..?”

“Absolutely not. Despite everything you need to act nice towards our new colleague. Or at least, appropriately. And that requires meeting him”

“Believe me, I already had the pleasure” I mumbled almost inaudibly

“What were you saying?”

“Nothing. Sorry boss.”

“Good. Here he comes apparently.”

Fuck! He did not change a thing. Maybe brazened a little bit but apart from that he still got those messy, soft hair, smart, glistening eyes and straight posture. His energy was buzzing and it did not take my powers to see and fell that. I could not help the slightest blush that came onto my face.

“Changing your mind already, my dear?”” Amanda smirked at me “he is hot, isn’t he?”

I simply stayed silent since I couldn’t really deny and agreeing was not an option. At this moment I wished I could just turn invisible. Oh, wait….. Everyone was so busy with the introduction, captain Anders included that this might as well work out. I took a step back, towards the door to test the waters. No one noticed, so I took another one and then another and another. And just as I was about to cross the threshold Dick’s super-sensing made him turn head in my direction. It was …. Well, I don’t even know how to describe it. The way light froze in his eyes, but his facial expression did not change. The way his pupils dilated as he saw me, showing so many different emotions ranging from disbelief, though surprise, guilt and pain. It was physically hurting me, feeling all the same as he did. It was mere seconds before we both regained our cool attitude. Years of training made our reflexes and adapting abilities better than most people. He got back to greeting his teammates and I fled back to my safe space, my glass cage, controlling my breath and heartbeat in desperate need of something to focus on.   However, I couldn’t stop wondering what will his next move be.

***

He didn’t come to see me. Obviously, I did not come to see him either. Like I mentioned my lab was on the other side of the floor so most likely he got too invested in whatever case was assigned to him to take any sightseeing tour. Was this a relief? Yes. Really. But for how long?

***

He broke three days later. I was sitting in front of the files and samples with headphones off but I still heard the knocking and instantly knew. Everyone else just busted through the door.

“Come in, detective” I sighed turning around.

“Are you hiding from me?” he cut straight to the chase

“Is that even possible? Given all you can do? All your trained skills?”

“YN….” He sighed and plumped down onto the chair next to me

“Sorry.“ I mumbled looking down “been a while. How you’ve been?” I tried acting cool, keeping all my questions at bay. Are you just passing by? Are you on a mission? Are still with…

“Small talk, YN?”

“Oh, I’m sorry. I was just trying to be warm and welcoming, but might as well go big right ahead. Why are you here?”

“I quit.”

“I’m sorry?”

“I quit being Robin.”

“What happened?”

“I was becoming too much like Bruce. And I never wanted that. So I….”

“run away?” I asked eyeing him carefully

“yes.”

“Seems like we have something in common.”

“You had different motives for that.”

“I guess. But the results turned out to be the same.” I hesitated before speaking again “are you going to stay?”

“I left almost right after you. ” He spoke at the same time and it made us both go silent

“Um…. Do you need any help with your cases?” I swiftly changed the subject but it was already awkward.

“I might, if you are willing to give me a hand. Everyone speaks so highly of you.”

“It’s just the job, Dick. I try to do my best.”

“You always did.”

“Apparently not good enough in some matters.” I just couldn’t stop my bitterness and reminiscence of the past from getting out.

“I’m sorry.” He said after a while

“I know. The past is in the past.” I was terrible liar and he knew that “how can I help you? With work of course?”

 

***

It’s been a couple of weeks during which we worked together a couple of times. It was strange at first but soon this tension between us just went off and we were able to work without any inhibitions. It was clear to see he has changed. Definitely trying his best to not be like Bruce and move past all the aggression and pain he was raised with. So yeah, we were back to being friends or at least working it out this way. That was until a very special and very scared girl showed up at the precinct.

“YLN, there’s a call for you.” My solitary work was interrupted by fellow detective named Anderson

“Is it urgent?” I frowned, not used to being summoned this way.

“Apparently. Otherwise no one would dare interrupting you.”

“Who’s in need?”

“Grayson.”

“I’m not even surprised.” I sighed “I’ll pick it here if you don’t mind” I motioned him towards the door and he was quick to get out “What’s up Grayson?”

“YN, I might need a bit of your help in the interrogation room.”

“Interrogation room? I think you are mistaking my roles in this office, Dick. Unless….” I cleared one’s throat “who’s help are you seeking exactly?”

“I think you already know.”

“No.”

“YN….”

“No, Dick. We’ve talked about this. I gave up that part of me.”

“Did you?” he mocked

“What is that supposed to mean?”

“Look YN, I’ve got a kid…..”

“Well then congratulations daddy” I could almost feel his blood boil at this word.

“Stop it! She’s scared. There’s something …. Different about her. I’ve never seen her before and she knew about the circus and the accident and all the history….. YN, I really need your help here.”

“What’s her name” I sighed standing up and getting ready to get to the second floor where the girl was.

“Rachel.”

“I’m on my way. But I don’t like it, Dick. At all.”

 

***

“Rachel?” I walked through the door where black-dressed teenager was sitting

“Are you Dick’s friend?” she looked at me with eyes filled with terror

“That’s the word he used?” I smirked “I guess you can say something like that. He mentioned some…. things about you…..”

“There’s something inside me….” She shook in fear

“Ok. We can work that out” I felt so much pain and struggle coming from inside “I’ll help you. We will help you.”

“How?” she looked me straight in the eyes “I don’t think you can do this.”

I sighed. Rachel was clearly something more than human. More like…. Me. But how do I explain to her the range of my abilities without compromising my work here. Been there, done that. Once you start again it’s like an addiction creeping inside your mind and craving more. Damn you, Grayson! You couldn’t just leave me be.

“Give me your hand, will you?” I put my palm forward but she was hesitant to grab it “don’t worry, you won’t hurt me. I know how to protect myself, ok? You have to trust me on this.”

The girl just nodded and gently touched my hand. None of us expected what happened later. Sudden splurge of invisible energy made us both gasp in pain. It was only a couple of seconds but I felt everything that was inside her coming at me and drowning me in. I immediately put an internal force field to save myself from being consumed but damn it was harder than everything I ever dealt with before. I could also sense she saw something about me.

“What just happened?” her eyes was wide with fear

“What did you see?” I panted breaking the contact “how much?”

“A couple years in the past. You and Dick and how you used your powers…..”

“Please keep it to yourself, will you?”

“Sure. What did you see?”

“I felt. What’s inside you is bigger than we can deal with ourselves. I will help you, Rachel, I promise. Just…. Stay here for a while, ok? I’ll get Dick and we will figure the rest out.”

“Please don’t leave me here” she sobbed

“Rachel, hey, don’t crack. What we are dealing with is not normal, but in case you didn’t notice neither am I. We will work it out.”

“Promise?”

“Pinky promise” I smirked “that’s still a thing, right?”

“Yes” finally the faintest of smiles showed on her face.

“Good. I thought I was getting out of touch with teenage slang. Wait here, I will put a force field on, all right. No one will hurt you.” I turned towards the door

“YN?”

“Yes?”

“Thank you.”

I just nodded without a word. Now, I had a problem. And by saying I, I meant Dick had a problem as well.  

to be continued

@somest1 @pinksirensong @deadpoolgirl23 @bearly-koalafied @vanessa-boo @shadowmarvelartist

[zahri-melitor]

Ooh, the Dickpoll. Dick like Tim is cursed with having a bunch of acceptable writers who also tend to have a huge gaping flaw.

Marv Wolfman: can I get spicy here? I don't really like Wolfman. Yes yes, foundational to creating Nightwing, he IS NTT - but I don't particularly enjoy NTT. I like the OTT lineup. He's also dealing with the fact a lot of his content is now 30-40 years old. Plus, when they DID give him a Nightwing run, it was the most retrospective thing ignoring almost everything that had happened to Dick since he was returned to the Bat office in 1993-1994.

Chuck Dixon: I don't think Chuck is Dick's best writer. I think he is way too heavy handed with the 'be my own man, Bruce' narrative most of the time. Despite this he also wrote Robin #13, and Dick and Bruce's conversation there, especially "That's the way it is between fathers and sons" is peak perfect Bruce and Dick. He set up pretty much everything about what is now treated by the fandom as Nightwing's 'default' situation - Blüdhaven and a good chunk of the associated rogues gallery. Also he's the architect of well-written Dick/Babs so I love him for that.

Devin Grayson: Devin shouldn't actually be allowed to write Dick as his primary writer because she loves him too much and has elaborate headcanons that contradict what other writers have written. That said, she's actually a solid writer and her runs tend to be much better when she's got other characters around to spread her attention between. She wrote Transference in Gotham Knights, after all! She wrote "Like Riding a Bike" about Dick and Donna in Batman Chronicles! Also as I've said before, part of the issue with her Nightwing run is she got royally screwed over by War Games and then Nightwing Year One right as she was trying to land the bleakest part of a whump run, and never recovered from it.

Jay Faerber: he's...fine? I think the only bit anyone seriously cares about is the Who is Donna Troy storyline.

Judd Winick: Oooh Winick. He likes writing Dick more broken than I enjoy Dick. Also I hold a grudge against him for his Batman & Robin story, when I was desperately hoping someone other than Tomasi would write bearable Dick and Damian interactions in their own title and instead we got a random Jason Todd story.

Peter Tomasi: Tomasi's run on Nightwing, particularly Freefall, has the best understanding of Dick as a character that anyone has ever written in a book titled 'Nightwing'. Fight me. Also he had the only good run on Batman & Robin 2009, a truly cursed book, blighted only by the fact nobody stopped to check basic facts about Aaron Langstrom.

Grant Morrison: uh. um. I guess Morrison was in the loop for the Dick and Tim storyline in Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul, even though pretty much all of it happened in books they weren't writing? Bottom of my list. Seriously, Paul Dini's Streets of Gotham did most of the heavy lifting initially with making Reborn Batman!Dick appealing.

Scott Snyder: Dick's characterisation in both The Black Mirror and Gates of Gotham is actually really good! He brought some really good 'team leader Dick Grayson' energy to the Batfam during a period they needed it, and he gave us back Dick and Cass having a functional relationship together.

Anyone I think was overlooked here? Hmmm. Not notably, but I'll shout out Scott Beatty, whose Dick in his Gotham Knights run was always consistently entertaining, and who collabed with Dixon for a bunch of things I think have great Dick in them (Joker's Last Laugh, Batgirl Year One, Robin Year One).

[paladin-of-nerd-fandom65]

Thanks for the answers :D can’t wait for your questions! lol

1: if the duo was not best friends/starburst duo in a AU, who would they be best friends/starburst duo with?

2: I know Chris’s archenemy is general zod, since they are “father & son” but why is Jake’s nemesis is victor zassz? Why him specifically out of both Batman’s & Nightwings rogue gallery?

3: you know about the sinister sons from modern comics, which is the evil versions of the super sons, who are the evil versions of the starburst duo?

4: if they can get rid of one supervillain, besides zod & zassz of course, who would it be?

5: what’s something they find overrated? Like something popular like stranger things on Netflix for example.

6: what’s something they find underrated?

You’re most welcome. So here, have some more answer lol XD @pin-crusher2000

1) Recently both @confusedhummingbird @spider-jaysart and I have been formulating an idea for a new character to act as a Wonder family member akin to Diana with Bruce and Clark, a character that’s a third POV and brings a more excited and passionate side to the Duo’s dynamic, someone to compliment them on adventures

Hence I shall take this questions as an opportunity to introduce a new character I can further develop in future posts.

Jake’s other best friend if not for Chris Kent would be named Penelope Haney Troy, a clone daughter of Donna Troy aka Troia created by Project Cadmus. She’s the lively, no nonsense, and adventurous type of girl about Jake’s age who’s always there to bring some comfort and fun to his life as he does for her. Her hero codename would be Hoplite with her main teacher being Cassie Sandsmark, similar to how Jake’s main teacher is Tim Drake

Basically think of her as the Donna to Jake’s Dick; platonic best friends, Wonder Twins

Then there’s Chris, for his best friend besides Jake, without doubt that’ll be Thara.

Oh yeah and these are in addition to a classmate Chris knows well back at school and Jasper Logan for Jake as well respectively for other best friends

2) Well that sort of relationship between Zsasz and Jake happens after a particularly difficult and cruel case involving some street orphans who are mercilessly taken by Zsasz, put into a gladiator type tournament where whoever survives then faces (and inevitably loses to) him. When Jake manages to find the location of this wicked scheme, Zsasz had him captured and personally taken into a duel against him, stripped of his powers, most of his equipment and even his own boots for this match. Had Jake won, the surviving children go free so the brave young hero takes that challenge. It was far from an easy fight as Zsasz was armed with both a butcher knife and a familiar rusty crowbar. The beat down Jake endured during this battle left him scarred both physically and emotionally while Zsasz was utterly remorseless in his work. Thus, Jake has deemed Zsasz his personal archenemy ever since

For more information on that, check out my fic ‘Broken Wings’

On a meta level, I just felt like Zsasz compliments Jake in that sort of ‘person driven by their commitment to their own’ archetype and give it a unique dark twist to it as Jake can attest to. Plus, since the original version of that arc (which btw introduced the world to Colin Wilkes) has its protagonist regularly nowadays have arch-nemeses linked to the League of Shadows in one form or another more often, that left Zsasz up for grabs thus Jake can fulfill that role

3) Oh I have a good passing knowledge of that book (mainly for the fact it’s further taking name of Chris Kent or rather Lor Zod in general further though the mud but I digress);

Now if there’s any sort of evil or at least anti hero mainline universe counterpart to the Starburst Duo, I would cast them being like a bastard preteen son of Blackfire and the aforementioned Vla-Blo (the young bully Kryptonian who was locked in the Phantom Zone by an ancestor of Chris and had the goal of humiliating the House of Zod for this perceived injustice) who both antagonize our main heroes in many fields with the notion in their minds of proving themselves superior to them, though often to failing results.

At least that’s what I can think of for this moment if anything comes up, I’ll let you know ;-)

4) Probably Mongul, a lot of it due to a time when he’s revealed as a mysterious business partner for Blockbuster regarding trading with for some reversed engineered fear toxin and the brawl that ensued between them and the Warlord tyrant was nothing short of brutal and devastating*, even if they stopped that shipped of fear toxin getting to Mongul’s hands.

*Just picture that what the Duo, also Corvus/Jasper Logan and Hoplite/Penelope Troy went through here with Mongul was akin to what happened with Mark Grayson aka Invincible and his friends when they faced Battle Beast for the first time.

5) Definitely the MCU as a general whole, Family Guy and about a few pro wrestlers they can name off the top of their heads….surprisingly not John Cena. More likely Randy Orton, Seth Rollins, The USOs and definitely The Rock. Heck Dwayne Johnson both in wrestling and especially as a film actor, they can’t stand people who claim he’s the best…or rather fittingly The Great One. It internally the Duo out hearing about him in school all the time.

6) Easily the Monsterverse movies, Hell’s Kitchen, We Bare Bears, and during the Halloween season Hellraiser (that’s if Chris and Jake are feeling brave enough to watch through it’s more gruesome moments lol)