#any side of syscourse can interact

[nexus-nebulae]

this is a silly fun joke poll if anyone comments legit syscourse i am hitting you with my beam attack

[adoseofdidreality]

also my blog name wasnt to pretend to be you but to make fun of your username because i think "a dose of did reality" (or even a "a DIDose of reality") is funnier than didadoseofreality

genuinely just replace the word DID with "the shot" or something wild and "a dose of reality" can become a really clever pun for antovaxxers. i think if the op is actually an antivaxxer they can steal that idea and try to come up with a better primary title to be followed by the subtitle "a dose of reality" :P

it would all be really silly shouty lies by an old man/woman/erson who's scared of The Furries Oh my Gosh!!! and it's hillarious

[shattered-system]

The “Redefinition” of Systempunk

Updated version!

We're not typically an essay kind of blog, but there's something l've been turning over in my mind since l've seen it.

I have the post pulled up now actually, and about 11 hours ago @/the-alarm-system "recoined" (stole) the term systempunk in a long post, as well as designed a flag with its own meaning and I want to sort through some of it.

I also have a few personal pet peeves about their flag design, given that it's color palette clashes and the flag is way too busy. I don't expect it to spread far given that it violates several rules of good design (saying this as someone who has been to school for graphic design.)

I will not post it here, because I don't care to spread it any more than this post already may.

Their flag slightly predates my own version of the systempunk flag, but given that theirs was created for a separate concept with a stolen name, I maintain that we were the first.

We begin with their definition of systempunk.

“A term or Subculture surrounding the liberation of plurals and the critique of psychiatry."

First issue lies here. Both the destigmitization of dissociative disorders and critique of the psych field are extremely important discussions to have!

But they are separate discussions. There is absolutely overlap, but combining the two here is kind of shooting yourself in the foot, because then the conversation in that tag will be disorganized.

Have a systempunk movement AND an anti-psych or psych-critical movement. That way people can easily find the relevant discussions and terms.

This is followed up with a bit about the harm the psychiatric field has caused (not delving into that as that's not what this blog is about) and then circle back onto "the future is plural."

This is not one of the instances where OP means it in the "the future is destigmitization" sense, as they are pro endo. (On a side note, even ignoring the endo use of the phrase-- if I need to read about a slogan to understand the meaning of the slogan, it's a bad slogan. The point of a slogan is to communicate a concept quickly.)

The flag has black and brown stripes akin to the progress flag to represent systems of color, which is the only part of the design we have no critique for, but are describing anyway just as a bit of information.

The purple stripe stands for:

“Endo solidarity... endogenic systems are continuously harmed by antis who remain uncritical of psychiatry."

Once again, we are mixing two expansive concepts into one term.

The term anti-endo doesn't imply a position one way or the other on the psychiatry discussion.

Some anti-endos swear by the DSM5, others don't. Anti-endo is a term that means anti-endo/ endo-critical. That is all it means.

There is a difference between holding the DSM as the complete authority on mental illness and saying that a trauma disorder is caused by trauma.

I'm not sure if OP knows that and is choosing to cast anti-endos in a bad light, or legitimately confused. However, OP is a syscourse blog who is on a lot of blocklists and is spammy in the tags, and has likely been blocked by anyone who isn't also out looking to pick immature fights. (This is a system who made a post in all caps calling for an endo raid on #systempunk.)

Continuing directly from the last quote:

“[Antis] are against the liberation of plurals and deny a plural future in order to push singlethood onto others."

It's possible OP is referring to final fusion, which the anti-endo community is not a monolith on either. Most people we've interacted with are supporters of functional multiplicity (including ourselves.)

Most likely however, they mean that anti-endos "push singlethood" by telling endogenics that they can't have a trauma disorder without trauma.

And I could go into a whole tirade about that, but dozens of systems have done it before and I doubt any pro-endos have gotten this far. I am writing this for the anti-endo and on-the-fence audiences.

Visit @antimisinfo's helpful masterpost for a list of legitimate sources.

OP seems to believe that by “forcing” this singlethood, we are contributing directly to the oppression of systems. Hypocritically, OP themselves are contributing directly to the oppression of trauma victims.

Endogenics are not part of the "diverse experiences of plurality” (we are diverse, but united in origin) given that they don't exist. And if they did, they would have such a fundamentally different experience than trauma-formed systems that both groups would need separate language and tags to have space to themselves.

And endos already have a well-established punk tag for themselves. It seems they won't be happy until they chase trauma victims out of every space they create for themselves and steal every term. They've already stolen even the medical terminology used for CDDs.

The yellow stripe of the flag is meant to represent those with actual CDDs. Once again, psych stuff is brought up. However, I do agree with OP that those who do not want final fusion should not be pushed into it.

The pink and white stripes of the flag are entirely dedicated to anti-psych points. I think this would do wonderfully on it's own flag. But bringing the large range of discussion the anti-psych movement encompasses and the large range of discussion the CDD community has into the same tags is going to make it monumentally difficult to find the conversations you're wanting to have, and weaken both communities considerably.

There is a line of barbed wire across the flag that is partially for the same anti-psych movement as well as in favor of protecting and defending endogenic "identities." The ampersand stands for plurality.

There are fangs on the flag as well, encouraging systems to be loud and proud about their existence. And I agree that systems should make themselves known. However, endogenic systems don't exist, and their promotion will continue to drag us down.

I have read testimonies about traumagenic (real) systems being fakeclaimed or denied treatment by healthcare experts who, through exposure to endos, came to the conclusion CDDs are fake entirely.

Real systems seeking treatment and help after a lifetime of horrific abuse are being denied care.

Not to mention the setback of social acceptance by endos.

“Force plural liberation down the throats of others. Force the future to be plural."

[steaming-system-takes]

Welcome to Steaming System Takes!

This blog was inspired by @/pipinghot-systemtakes. However, we are not associated with that blog in any way. We made this blog to combat the lack of proper structure pipinghot-systemtakes has in terms of sorting through harmful submissions, and offer this community a place to share their hot takes without having to worry about coming across harmful messages and/or misinformation.

What do we consider to be harmful?

To us, harmful submissions include submissions that promote non-traumagenic systems, have paranoia inducing messages and wording, and anything that contains any form of misinformation. This definition of the word "harmful" is rather broad, and we will be paying close attention to what each submission says to ensure nothing slips through the cracks. If need be, we have people outside of our system we can reach out to for second opinions.

Will we be accepting other mods in the future?

Yes, we will! If this blog gets to a point where we're receiving more asks than we can handle, we will open up mod applications to make sure we don't slip up and let something through that should not be posted.

Will we be posting submissions that we don't agree with?

For the most part, yes. The only exception to this is, once again, anything that's genuinely harmful or contains misinformation. We will not be sharing any of our personal opinions of any syscourse topic on this blog, only pin-boarding other people's opinions anonymously. This blog is meant for others to have a safe space to share their thoughts, not for us to share our own. In addition to that, we believe that most syscourse topics should have all sides shared to ensure that anyone looking into the issue can make a properly informed opinion on it. Above all else, that is our goal.

Something to note: If a submission is worded in a way that we can't understand, we won't post it just to be safe. If you notice that your hot take isn't being posted after a little while, feel free to submit it again with different wording!

Who can interact with our blog?

Despite us not sharing our opinions on this blog, we do have a DNI list. This includes endogenics/willowgenics/tulpas and their supporters, transID and radqueers, and anyone who claims RAMCOA isn't real.

We accept anyone with any disorder here. This blog is NPD, BPD, schizophrenic, psychosis, and mood disorder friendly. Anyone who villainizes these disorders is NOT welcome here.

Meet our current mods!

Since this blog is currently only being run by one system, our mod team consists of a few of our current/frequent fronters.

Mod Z - Also known as: Zack

Zack Foster introject, He/It pronouns, tag signoff: "mod z"

Zack will likely be the most active mod.

Mod Green - Also known as: Lloyd

Lloyd Garmadon introject, He/Leaf pronouns, tag signoff: "mod green"

Mod Dori - Also known as: Yuji

Yuji Itadori introject, He/Him + neopronouns, tag signoff: "mod dori"

Anon tags: 🥩 anon, 🐇🐇 anon, 🖥️ 💥 anon

Interested in getting to know us? Our main blog is @jabberwock-islanders!

(Divider used was made by @/bxd-decisions)

[sysmedsaresexist]

We really need to come up with better terms for syscourse stances because the main ones aren't cutting it

Anti endo can mean everything from staunch disbelief and bad, aggressive posts to completely believing that endogenic systems are real and valid but not wanting them to interact with CDD-specific content

Being pro endo can mean someone believes DID is caused by trauma and that the CDD community must be protected above all else, to people actively villainizing CDD systems and everything in-between

Endo neutral can mean everything from not caring at all about syscourse and refusing to engage, to allowing interaction from all sides without judgement despite personal beliefs

Anti-misinformation had promise at one point in reference to the massive amounts of misinformation in both communities, but it wasn't working

Any and all of these labels can mean you think the DSM or ICD directly affirms endogenic systems and they can also mean that person has never picked up a DSM in their life

NONE OF THESE ARE WORKING

None of them are accurate

None of them convey the full picture

These are useless labels

(I don't want to hear a peep about the syscourse code, that's not cutting it either, no one has time for that)

People getting upset over pro endo mods on anti endo blogs don't realize that you can share the exact same beliefs about science and the communities and use opposing labels.

Some pro endo blogs should try putting an anti endo on their team to control misinformation and point out ableism, seriously, interaction is how you start learning, anti endos seem more willing to take that step than pro endos and that's pathetic

I also think it might be good to remove the focus from the validity and acceptance of endogenic systems (anti/pro endo) and place it back on what's important-- protecting traumatized individuals

Maybe something like "#CDDs first" can convey that your intention, attention, and audience will always prioritize the CDD community and their safety, but even that... someone can be well-intentioned when they misquote things

I don't know, I'd love to hear the communities' thoughts-- both pro and anti, I'd like this to spread around a bit, I think it's important that people realize that labels don't mean there's disagreement on ideas and concepts-- a pro endo can share the same goals and ideas as an anti endo and vice versa

For example, at this point, I'll happily interact with anyone who agrees that DID is a childhood trauma disorder. That's it. That's my bar. No more, no less. There are pro endos who believe the exact same things I do on all fronts, despite calling me anti endo.

It really just doesn't make sense.

Maybe together we can come up with something better

[scapeg8ats]

(Sorry for this being a long post, it became a rant/vent and a lot of thoughts. Someday I'll shut up about this I SWEAR lol. There's a TL;DR at the end.)

Maybe I'm not even interested in syscourse outside of learning more about plurality and its connections outside of CDDs and why someone may see themselves as plural or really any way of not seeing oneself as One Singular Self (whether it has to do with a disorder or it's a cultural/religious/etc. reason). Or I guess that does make me interested in syscourse. Just not echo chamber syscourse.

Like I'm sorry but y'all are fucking mean. I LOVE having discussions where I can learn and understand other perspectives. I guess to steal SAS's label, I'm very pro-syscourse conversation (though—and this isn't to bash SAS AT ALL—to me that feels redundant because syscourse is supposed to be conversation anyway. But it's not so the label is necessary). I want to learn. I want to be educated. I want to discuss this, even with people who disagree with me, because I want knowledge of other perspectives.

But it is so hard to find syscourse spaces that AREN'T echo chamber syscourse spaces. The desire to attain knowledge is stomped out by attaching inherent morality to labels that can be boiled down to one argument: Do you or do you not believe that plurality is exclusive to CDDs?

And shockingly this has more nuance than "endos are/n't valid". What may cause someone to see themselves as plural without a CDD? And the answers are vast and could be a FASCINATING discussion. Not even necessarily a debate, just learning more about people. And yet the answer to this question isn't even considered before so many people just go "[extremely loud incorrect buzzer noise]" and shut it down.

Maybe, ironically, this is me struggling to understand perspective. But I don't understand the lack of interest in wanting to understand, despite having experienced it myself. And even that, I want to understand. But I know that the fact that because of the nature of my opinions, I would be marked pro-endo, and shut out of that discussion. And it's INFURIATING because I respect the fact that they don't want to interact with me but I just don't understand!

There is endless room for discussion that's shut out and it's frustrating. It's heartbreaking. I want there to be discussion. But there won't be until the echo chambers start to open their fucking eyes.

I remember the moment for me was when someone in the Twitter dissociatwt community who I really respected, who always provided good resources, who was reliable and kind and honest...was pro-syscourse conversation. And my knee-jerk reaction was almost betrayal. How could someone that I respected be a pro-endo??

But I realized that they didn't stop being reliable because of this. Some of y'all will discount doctors who have been studying plurality, trauma, and dissociation longer than some of you have been alive because they're a stinky smelly "pro-endo". Therapists and doctors and the like who go "Why isn't it possible" get discounted because of this when they, too, just want to understand. Because with all due respect and in the most positive way, they're a bunch of nerds. And I don't understand. I don't understand how you can do that.

And that's really the thing. I don't understand and I'm not given the space to understand because my stance is somehow morally wrong. I'm not virtue signaling right. Sometimes for both sides. And it's awful.

TL;DR, I don't understand and am frustrated by echo chamber syscourse. That's it. That's all this long-ass post is saying. I don't get it. It didn't need a post but a lot of me just started Talking and did not stop.

[thefoolsystem]

Hiya! Small question, as long as Host (or any of the headmates) are comfortable with answering.

“overall anti-endo for safety (I have some pro endo, neutral, and anti endo alters, but due to the fact that endo content is extremely triggering for some alters, I do not allow it to show up in front of me)”

So… Is Host against? Or not? I understand the wording here, but I genuinely would like to know Host’s stance on endogenic systems. Again, this is only if Host (or anyone else) is comfortable with replying and clearing this up for me. Thanks! <3

Hello!!

I understand your question, however, it is very difficult for me to answer, as I have many hosts and would not be able to tell you with any certainty which one would be my main fronter.

I think the best answer I can give is this: I have been trained as a neuroscientist, have worked in neurology in a medical capacity, and have received extensive education on PTSD and neurological disorders. Due to this, I tend to lean on a more nuanced side of endogenic discourse. I am a neuroscientist rather than a psychologist, which means I specialize in concepts relating to the physical structure of the brain (such as fMRI, proteins, and chemical signaling that are altered by disorders).

By this I mean: there is an abundance of literature cementing the idea that DID/OSDD is borne of trauma, as well as literature exploring the physical phenomena (like brain activation in fMRI) behind DID/OSDD. In addition, there is some literature documenting physical differences in DID/OSDD systems and malingering systems (aka, we can see physically if a system has the disorder or not regardless of symptomology). However, there is less information about the existence of systems outside of DID/OSDD (for example, I look to the meditative practice of Tibetan Buddhist tulpamancy); to that end, DID/OSDD itself as a diagnosis may be reshaped or abolished when new information comes to light.

Therefore, I (as one of the hosts) would rather that DID/OSDD spaces online stay exclusive and informational to traumagenic systems, as there are unique challenges this disorder creates within us that we often need to ameliorate with community resources. I understand the anger that many anti-endo systems hold towards those who attempt to mimic the disorder, as many within me hold the same anger.

However, regardless of the opinions of my other headmates, I try not to confirm nor deny the existence of systems outside of DID/OSDD. It is simply not something that exists within the scientific literature I have cemented my education upon. My "endos DNI" tag is there for the safety of DID/OSDD systems who see my content, and because I wish for my experiences as a system to be categorized in this manner.

If I have offended anyone with this post, I apologize. I welcome any comments within this post, but I do not wish to become a syscourse blog or to involve myself in discourse.

TL;DR: there is proof that DID/OSDD can only exist with trauma, however, there is little evidence either way that non-DID/OSDD systems exist. I am not a psychologist, but a neuroscientist. Brain stuff is complicated, and it may be many decades before we truly get answers.

If you are an endogenic system who is looking at my content, I hope it proves helpful to you, however, please respect my wishes that I want for my experiences to be reblogged only on the OSDD/DID side of Tumblr. Besides that, you are free to quietly appreciate my work (likes are fine). If you are a system that does not identify as endogenic, yet does not quite fit the DID/OSDD category, feel free to interact.

<3

[cringesys]

CRINGE SYSTEMS RULZZ!!!!

Howdy, this is the cringe system space, a place for all the systems to be as much as cringe as they want

Topic of the blog? BEING CRINGE!!!

This is an interactive blog for all the systems who are cringe or want to be cringe but are too scared of "What will they say?" here no one judges and everyone is so fucking cringe as they want

Cringe culture is dead baby, everyone let's be the cringe freaks we know we are!!!

Submissions are always open to share, talk, ask and all kind of interaction you wanna do with our blog Expecting some "Cringe system culture is..." asks ;)

All anti-cringe things send here will gonna be deleted, no one's gonna judge you or anything similar, here we're anti anti-cringe!!

This is a more cringe aligned blog, if you want to be a silly system better go to the sibling blog @sillysystems for all the systems who are silly!!

ANON CLAIMS!!

💜🩰 anon

🫧 anon

💫 anon

🌙💎 anon

🌕 anon

💜 anon

🌆 anon

👑 anon

Silly 🫧 anon

🕸️💚 anon

🌌🗄️ anon

⭐✨ anon

🐦‍⬛🔥 anon

Moth anon

🕷️💤 anon

🐌🤙 anon

🦷🦴 anon

📻 anon

♎♏ anon

Boundaries

This blog isn't a syscourse one, if you're a syscourse blog or wanna talk about syscourse I'll block and delete, this isn't a place for syscourse talk, all syscourse will be deleted

Submissions are always open, but please have in mind this rules before using it:

If is necessary add the corresponding TW/CW above the submission

No slurs, attacks, mockery or any kind of bad behavior to anyone in the submissions (And if you're gonna mention someone censor and give a nicknames, don't reveal information)

Specify if you want a submission to be published with the message or if you want a separate post with no submission attached

Our DNI:

Endos

Syscourse blogs

Anti-silly

Anti-cringe

People without CDD

System without system accountability

Closed mind people

Trans-ID

TERFS

About us

We're a polyfrag DID system who really loves doing side blogs

Our main blog is: @persmo and there you can see a little bit more about ourselves, for simplicity reasons in this blog we won't be putting a lot of info because it's unnecesary

Also, in our main account you can find almost all of our side blogs connected to our pinned post!!

[intuspluric-culture-is]

Blog Introduction

Hello! Welcome to our very own "___ culture is" blog. We hadn't seen any for this topic yet, so we decided to make it ourselves! In this post, we'll explain what this is all about and the rules we have in place before you can think about sending anything.

So, what is this about?

An intuspluric or intra-system relationship refers to relationships, attractions and connections between headmates of the same system. This is often understood within a romantic context, but can apply to any sort of relationship, be it platonic, queerplatonic, familiar or anything else. Definition adapted from the following Pluralpedia pages:

The purpose of this blog is to share culture (AKA relatable situations, moods or personal anecdotes) by any system who experience those kinds of relationships! If this sounds interesting, be sure to read the following rules before participating:

1. Submissions must be posted in the form of asks.

This is just for uniformity's sake. Instead of sending submissions, select the option to send an ask and share your ideas through there. Additionally, all culture asks must start with "Intuspluric culture is", "In-sys culture is" or any variations that might fit the specified relationship type.

All types of relationships are allowed, and we will try our best to tag accordingly.

2. This is not a social blog.

While it's fine to send non "culture is" asks, please still keep them on topic. We might occasionally try to answer questions related to being a system, having intuspluric relationships, etc. But don't forget that this is not the focus of our blog and we won't always be able to help you. Please look for specialized blogs, Discord servers, or r/plural for dealing with such matters.

If you want to be friends with the mods, that's great! Go follow us on our main account @kazanfamily and interact us with there!

3. No syscourse allowed.

For the sake of remaining impartial, anyone is welcome to interact with this blog, regardless of their syscourse stance. If that makes you uncomfortable, simply block or ignore this blog. That said, avoid making references to your opinions on the topic, or bringing syscourse to the notes. I don't care which side you're on, this is not the place for it. Just keep it civil and stay in your lane.

(Flag made by us, using the symbol from the Intra-System Relationships page on Pluralpedia. The colours don't mean anything, we just chose them for aesthetic value.)

[sophieinwonderland]

I'm sure we've vented in your inbox before but we're seeing this round of "it's just ableism" shit and it's so annoying we wanna drop this here to share our thoughts/point:

Anti-endos are doing this repackaged transmed shit, and we were there for the transmed shit. We remember when people were telling non-binary folks that the discrimination they faces was "misdirected transphobia". We were there when people were saying that it was just an online issue. These arguments are the same ones! And they were mainstream!

And what gets to me is that this was like, less than ten years ago. Idk if it's because they were too young to be around for it, weren't in those spaces back then, or what. But it baffles us that this exact same rhetoric is being shouted completely unironically.

Any person stating that anti-endo bigotry is only a tumblr issue or it's DID discrimination that's just a little confused, would have sided with the transmeds during Obama's second term.

-Faye

This is way too true, and it's really sad that it is this way.

It also frustrates me that people keep having to relearn the same lessons every decade. That the exclusionists who pretend to be inclusive today because it's popular end up repeating the same exact arguments as the ones who oppressed them.

And it feels to me a bit like their values are just dependent on what's popular at the time, not any deeper moral philosophy or critical reasoning. Which if I can go on a bit of a side tangent, I hate this above all else. It's one thing that I just really can't stand. Morality that's subject to the whims of popularity.

Like, stepping away from syscourse, I feel like this is true for a lot of queer exclusionists. These are people who have gained a fair amount of acceptance because of people with inclusionist values. People who worked hard to make the world more inclusionist by going against the majority. By looking around at the world and saying "actually, how things are now is wrong, and they need to change."

And that's a hard thing to do. It's hard to realize that the vast majority of the population is wrong, and to stand up against the overwhelming majority because it's the right thing to do.

I feel that exclusionists are coasting on the work done by inclusionists who have fought tooth and nail for them, while clinging to the same mindset as people who, in past generations, supported their oppression. And ultimately, repeating their same rhetoric on new "acceptable targets" that haven't gained the same widespread acceptance yet.

(Note that when I refer to widespread acceptance, I'm referring to within individual communities that queer individuals are regularly interacting with. Nonbinary acceptance isn't everywhere, but it's common enough on sites like Tumblr, and locally in left-leaning cities. Adding this addendum because I'm sure somebody will want to read this in bad faith and argue that I'm claiming there's acceptance of nonbinary people everywhere, or something of the like.)

[ellipse-society]

This post has been a long time coming and will be pretty long, so let's get into it.

Nuance in Syscourse

And cw we will be talking about a lot of common syscourse arguments as examples, so if that is not something you are comfortable reading, this is not the post for you. This includes mentions of fakeclaiming.

We see a lot of "all in this group believe/do this." If you use the word all in any arguments like this, what follows is likely untrue as(and this is an exception lol) all people are unique. Also, it is important to be aware of the flaws that exist on your side of syscourse instead of just focusing on the flaws of the other side. And we won't be talking about neutral's beliefs because they are even more complex and varied, but this post can be used as justification for why neutrals exist.

So firstly, "all anti-endos believe endos don't/can't exist" very much false. I know of anti-endos who believe endogenics exist, and I know of pro-endos who don't believe endos exist. That has never been where the line is, and it never will be. There are enough other factors present that people can make their decisions on other than that alone.

Common arguments of this might be from a pro-endo I don't think endos exist, but they deserve to be respected and allowed to discover more about themselves at their own pace. And for anti-endos I believe endos exist I just simply don't think they belong in CDD spaces, and I don't feel their experience is close enough to mine that I feel comfortable interacting. They don't have to fit your definition of a pro or anti endo to identify as such. They choose the syscourse label they think fits them best.

Of course, there are other more harmful beliefs, such as the anti-endo belief that endos are plural they just don't remember their trauma. This does happen in some cases, so it isn't completely out of left field, but it is another case where anti-endos aren't falling into the immediate their faking mentality. It is also fair to say that some traumagenics who believe themself to be endogenic may have a harder time recognizing their trauma/trauma responses when they start becoming more prominent due to the label. This by no means is an excuse not to take the label if it is what you feel best represents you but simply a possible consequence of it. You're identity us what feels right to you, and it can change as you discover more about yourself.

Both sides of syscourse can also justify that some on the opposing side are abelist. Both sides do abelist nonsense all the time. Anti-endos won't stop throwing other disorders under the bus, and both sides won't stop spreading misinformation about CDDs. Endogenics don't need to be validated by the DSM or ICD to exist. The writers of diagnostic manuals for disorders do not care about including non-disordered experiences. Endos weren't even slightly on their radar when they were writing it. Stop making the diagnostic manuals about something they simply aren't about, please.

Another thing that complicates things is that everyone has a different definition of what trauma is, and everyone's threshold for trauma is different. It's easy for those other than the person in question to look at their experiences and think well that would have traumatized me even if they don't find it traumatizing they must have been traumatized by it. It's also easy for those who have experienced trauma to dismiss their experiences as "not that bad" when they really were. There is no solid line to go off of for what really does qualify, which can lead to confusion. Two systems could have the exact same experiences, and one would be/identify as traumagenic and the other endogenic. It's all a matter of perspective.

There is also the problem that many of those with CDDs first introduction to endos is that they are claiming to have CDDs. That can be very scary for someone discovering their disorder/the community and struggling to find the resources they need for their disorder. It is not surprising that those with CDDs who think that's what endos are would want to keep their distance and may take on a label based on what their friends are labeling themselves. That doesn't make them a bad person, just misinformed.

There are also pro and anti harassment people on all sides of syscourse. There are pro-endos who go out of their way to harass and retraumatize anti-endos and there are anti-endos who go out of their way to try to stop (pro)endos from being harassed. You can't tell how aggressive someone will be based on their syscourse stance. This also happens between people on the same side of syscourse. Pro-harassment anti and pro endos harass anti-harassment people on their same side all the time.

If you aren't willing to talk to people you disagree with you, you should not speak on what they believe with any sort of authority. This doesn't need to be some all-out us vs. them brawl. People are allowed to learn and grow and change over time, but treating them terribly will never help them do so and can actively stop them from doing so. If someone harasses you, you can block them. But that is a problem with that person, not every person who labels themselves the same way. No one in syscourse is a monolith and should not be treated as such. Block the ones you don't like or who don't like you, but you don't need to use their actions against their entire community.

[spongeknife]

It might just be me (and I might get flames for this) but I think the SysTumblr Experience is really dumb (and counterproductive).

I started, many years and blogs ago, in this community to find support- to find people who could understand my experiences. I liked getting advice, I liked seeing the creativity people had during hard times, it was especially nice to see that people similar to me could recover and it helped me try again and again when I really thought I would be stuck in a nightmarish trauma hole.

I can barely stand interacting on Tumblr now. Nearly everything system related is washed up by the endo/plurality argument.

Tags I used to use to connect have become some sort of hidden message to show "which side" I'm on. I can't simply exist in any of the spaces I once could without fear of extreme backlash on "picking the wrong side."

And, terribly so, the loudest of each group- the most harmful ones- block out any sort of "good" I may have found before. I do not think everyone in syscourse is the problem, and there are a few small areas I've been able to find peaceful discussion (although, I do not want to find the only peace in debates - there is still a lack of space to just exist).

I also think, most importantly, Syscourse is too easily accessible. Many many times, I've seen literal children in this very tumultuous environment. I can't help but imagine when I was in middle school and grade school, and the shit I was going through at that time. What about now? Literal kids are being sent threats, either to each other or by adults. It's fucking disgusting, and I worried about the risk of reblogging a post and inadvertently directing aggressive syscoursers to a young account.

While it might not "technically" be my job to worry about children on the Internet, I in no way want to cause extra harm or damage to these kids who are just being kids (many of them seem like they're just young and trying to process what they may have been through, and/or are trying to identify who they are. I don't think that's something worthy of all the vitriol they get).

I'm rambling a bit, but my main point is that Syscourse is so unavoidable that all these "safe spaces" aren't really safe.

Are these fears irrational? Are they misplaced?

I'm at the point where I could care less what you label yourself as (I know, a seemingly controversial opinion), as long as you're not trying to hurt others or force your opinion on others (when it's unwarranted).

Being on Tumblr has become exhausting, 2015 Sponge would be in shock that I'm saying it (also I don't really post syscourse anymore, I just want to yell this into the void - I hope I'm not the only one alone in this feeling)

[afuckingsystemsthoughts]

being a DID system and being in the online plural community is exhausting. systemscringe, not knowing whos faking and whos not because systemscringe makes it seem like the least thing is cringe and/or a sign someone is faking, endos stealing whatever terms they want (tulpa- cultural appropriation, system- a medical term for DID/OSDD, and anything else they want) the whole anti endo vs pro endo thing pulling off awareness and activism for DID/OSDD onto endos (who are not scientifically proven to exist yet) anti endos baiting endos into looking like bullies, endos baiting anti endos into looking like bullies, anti endos and endos actually being bullies, feeling like youre not valid enough because one side whines about their dramatic dissociation and how much they hate having DID while the other side spreads positivity while also spreading misinformation and/or making plurality a quirk or trend. having to deal with all that while also dealing with memory lapses, derealization, impulses, denial of trauma, self loathing, splitting, trauma responses that make you look crazy to other people, and the heavy drama of the online plural community is way too much.

as a host of a system affected by syscourse and really the online plural community, my advice is: don't let anyone tell you how to have your disorder. don't use social media as a verified source for what goes on (or should go on) in your head. nobody on social media knows you to know if youre valid or not even if they studied psychology or have DID/OSDD themselves. only you can make that decision based on your internal experiences and the diagnostic criteria. don't listen to negativity but also keep a grain of salt handy for any system positivity on social media. don't rely on most online plural spaces for support. online people exaggerate and irl people dont even open up about anything they suffer from. take both online and irl interactions with a grain of salt too. the point? don't listen to others, only listen to you, what you have and the answer to what you have is within you.

[manyminded]

genuinely is there a term for polyfragmented that isn’t exclusive to disordered systems?? I really don’t wanna be disrespectful, as we’re not disordered ourselves, but many of the qualifiers for being polyfrag fit w us (many members, intense trauma, complex headspace, new guys forming easily, so many subsystems, etc etc) but looking through various polyfrag tags we’ve seen a lot of it relies on memory issues which, while we have, are unrelated to our system. I’ve seen people suggest that we should just get our own term, but I don’t know if any? Suggestions would be awesome, thanks.

|| All sides of syscourse can interact. But if you’re gonna be a dick about us being non-disordered, kindly don’t. I wish you all a wonderful day /gen ||

[circular-bircular]

sorry i just had an epiphany i think everuone already knows this but like. for AGES i have had issues with syscourse. ive always wondered why anti or pro endos wouldn't listen to the other side even when they're agreeing on something and ive always wondered why people think pro endos are grooming the other side and why people think anti endos are fascistic but its literally all just ignorance and closed-mindedness. and resistance.

i think there's this deep fear of looking at the other side and agreeing with them and this deep fear of being wrong and this deep fear of things you don't understand.

i think peopke genuinely have trouble putting themselves in eachother's shoes. especially since they're so scared of the other side being right. so they don't listen. an anti endo could be the most pri endo antuk endo in existence (if that makes sense) but because they use an arbitrary label that doesn't even have nuance people wont listen. and vice versa! and because people don't listen, because people dread the thought of even interacting positively with the other side, they get a lot of things wrong and have a very closed-minded view.

that's also why both sides are stereotyped as harassers. you can SEE harassment. but if you don't go out of your way to engage with people who are reasonable and nice, of COURSE you're only gonna see the people who go out of their way to break their DNI. because you don't even look into the rest of the people! you just take things at face value!

(general you is used here, this isn't at the blogger) pro endos and anti endos can have good posts! but you're so scared of the other side, you have this very detrimental us vs them mentality, you can't see why someone would feel the way they do, you have trouble understanding, so you dig in your heels and REFUSE to understand instead of TRYING.

so many problems, so many syscourse posts could have been avoided if people just LISTENED to the other side.

and now that ive had this epiphany, half of syscourse now seems silly and useless to ne.

I kind of want to tackle this from my own shoes (however ironic that may be).

When I was using syscourse labels like anti endo and pro endo, it was more than fear of realizing I was wrong about my beliefs. It was fear of isolation and harassment for interacting with the other side. I have been completely ostracized and traumatized in the past for interacting with the “wrong��� person.

What broke me out of that was finally being so, so broken down by not understanding my own disorder that I finally reached out to @justanothersyscourse in an attempt to understand dysfunction VS disordered and what the fuck those words meant in context. I do not say this with any joking or levity, JAS unironically saved my life that day. Would I be alive today without that conversation? Probably, yes. But I wouldn’t be where I’m at in recovery. I’d be a very different Circ.

I was scared to reach out, even privately, because I figured JAS would make a post about it. He was supposed to be an Evil Anti Endo, after all, and clearly he would harass me. (I also have a lot of issues with tumblr messenger due to prior issues with users via DMs, so I was scared of harassment directly from him). And the thing was, I wasn’t really scared of JAS or his followers hunting me down if he made a post.

I was scared of what the pro-endos around me would do to me for “speaking with the enemy.”

Knowing what I know now, I’m shocked and alarmed at how many people are feeling this same way, but it’s not surprising. After all, current theories show that one of the core things that leads to the development of DID is disorganized attachment. Most CDD systems have no stable support structure. So… enter syscourse: a place where individuals are labeling themselves for you.

SAFE vs UNSAFE.

Anyone who isn’t the same label as you is labeled unsafe, because you can’t predict them; they’re not the stable, safe belief you know. And if you start interacting with UNSAFE, then suddenly, you are also deemed UNSAFE — meaning you lose the attachments you had.

It’s absolutely terrifying, and we’ve witnessed it time and time again in syscourse. I lost those pro-endos I used to have by becoming a “filthy high and mighty sysmed centrist.” I lost anti-endos by “traumatizing traumagenic systems and calling them endos.” I lost so many people, immediately isolated for my apparent crimes of Talking About The Other Point. 

The tag is filled with triggered, dissociative people, all screaming about various transgressions. Someone broke a DNI — unsafe. Someone fakeclaimed someone — unsafe.

And those laws and rules kept us alive! They were what was needed for so long. And maybe, just maybe, these people still need those rules to survive. Maybe it’s not yet safe enough for them to attempt the unsafe.

Today while working on the house, I finally burst out and shouted, “I need to be a bitch about this, and even if you yell at me, it’s the only way I can communicate: I need to do something alone!” I set a boundary and nothing more, but it took every last ounce of energy I had to set it, because I was going against every single brain pathway I had that dictates that setting boundaries is unsafe.

That’s what I see in syscourse, now.

I think it’s more than just, “they’re scared the other side is right.” I think it’s just… they’re scared. So many people are scared. And they can’t get out of it.

So they don’t ever try.

[otherkinsys]

Welcome to Otherkin Systems Realm

Otherkin systems realm is a blog dedicated to be a little space for all the systems who are collectively or because of one/certain alters in the otherkin community!!

Here you can do almost any kind of things and submissions related to being a system + otherkin, you can use this blog as vent, to ask questions, share experiences, rant about it, use it like "Otherkin system culture is...", to share memes and all that kind of stuff

We'll also gonna be sharing about us, opinions and how being a system part of the otherkin community is and feels like, both the good and bad parts

The idea is pretty simple as you may see, and I really hope you'll find a good and relatable place here in our blog :) !!!

Anon claims

Not for the moment

Boundaries

This blog isn't a syscourse one, if you're a syscourse blog or wanna talk about syscourse I'll block and delete, this isn't a place for syscourse topics

If you're a believer that fictionkin and fictives are the same please get out of our blog. If a place says only for fictives and you're not don't enter, the same with fictionkins, they're two different things that, although may share some kind of similarity, aren't the same and shouldn't be treat as the same

If you're IRL/DA this blog isn't for you, this is only for systems who just happen to also be Otherkin. If you're otherkin, system and have DA/IRL it's ok, you can interact, but don't bring DA/IRL topics in our blog (If it's a vent about DA/IRL but related to being a system and otherkin we might accept it)

This blog doesn't support harassment or attacks in any way, we understand that sometimes otherkin and systems might have fights, especially in the fictiokin vs fictive field, but this isn't a discourse blog, so please, if not necessary and for venting do not bring this topic in our blog

This blog isn't a syscourse one, if you're a syscourse blog or wanna talk about syscourse I'll block and delete, this isn't a place for syscourse topic

Submissions are always open, but please have in mind this rules before using it:

If is necessary add the corresponding TW/CW above the submission

No slurs, attacks, mockery or any kind of bad behavior to anyone in the submissions (And if you're gonna mention someone censor and give a nicknames, don't reveal information)

Specify if you want a submission to be published with the message or if you want a separate post with no submission attached

Our DNI:

Endos

Syscourse blogs

Anti-otherkin / Anti-therian

Believes fictionkin, fictives and IRL/DA are the same, or are meant to be in the same places/categories

TERFS

People without CDD

Trans-ID

Zoophiles

Think zoo = therian

About us

We're a polyfrag DID system who really loves doing side blogs

Our main blog is: @persmo and there you can see a little bit more about ourselves, for simplicity reasons in this blog we won't be putting a lot of info because it's unnecesary

Also, in our main account you can find almost all of our side blogs connected to our pinned post!!