#aspd questions

[aspd-confessions]

would it still count as fitting the criteria if i’m not “in trouble” with the law so to say? I have done things that could maybe fit the bill as “law unabiding” but never been in serious trouble for it.

Many pwASPD can avoid breaking the law, though it's common to be in legal trouble, but not a requirement from what I know.

[thehybridsystem]

CALLING PEOPLE WITH ASPD/SEVERE LACK OF EMPATHY!!!

hello! I've realized I literally cannot see my OC having "empathy" outside of (maybe) to avian and 100% to his mother

im thinking of having him have (unkown) ASPD and im currently researching and seeing he has a lot of the traits.

i do not have ASPD and therefore don't know if im showing him in a respectful way.

in the begining he is definitely seen as just an asshole with no empathy but then as he is forced by a god (btw he's still atheist after this) to attempt to cure a zombie it's revealed he has had a hard life and believes this is the only way to survive.

he has zero empathy and lies to him saying he is NOT a zombie and just a victim of war as he doesn't want to deal with potential emotional outbursts.

he remains very logical but over the course of the book he learns how to be gentle

avian (zombie) teaches him he doesn't need to be aggressive or angry to get his point across. he still lacks empathy towards lying though he learns that that isnt something you should do.

he has (and always have had) a strict moral compass, like for instance he (despite growing up in a homophobic cult) stood against the fact the gods hated gay people. though I don't believe that was out of empathy, more out of "this is logically stupid and if you don't believe in my strict set of morals your lesser than me"

like he thinks its morally right to be kind to people, but he also believes you should not feel bad for doing what you need to to survive, and everything he does is to survive and get what he needs.

at the end he falls in love with Avian (they're soulmates) Rowans father then trys to kill Avian but Rowans mother steps in front of the axe. Rowan then kills his father. he feels no remorse for killing his father, just kind of numbness and a new found sense of religion (due to things his father said and did)

that night they both die and Rowan ends up getting fused with the major God of the universe. he now has a even more strict sense of morals as he understands what is logically moral though he still has no remorse. (and also is stubborn and traumatized so he fucks up)

the only time i could see him having remorse is when he is told by onē (the God of the multiverse) tells him he is just a cog in a machine, he plays a very Important role in that machine, but he's still the same as everyone else, then he feels bad for fucking up so badly

i feel as though this is good rep but I'm not antisocial so I can't say!!!

[i-3at-s0ap]

Elon Musk isn't a sociopath Trump isn't a narcissist Jeff Bezos isn't a psycho they are terrible racist bigoted assholes but I'm begging y'all to fucking give a shit about people with personality disorders. PLEASE.

[aspd-confessions]

Not a whole lot to add, I think you said it well. Acknowledge it to yourself but don't play into it. Don't treat them different. And yeah, I want to emphasize avoiding telling them what to do as well- I get bad oppositional defiance and will often do the opposite of what I'm being told to do, especially when already upset or triggered.

Definitely avoid sounding judgmental, challenging, accusing, or moralizing things. If the person is asking you for advice or help, avoid emotional appeals, as we tend to not understand it. Avoid language such as "can't you see you're hurting those around you?" and "how could you do this to me/them?" and "it's wrong to treat people this way". We often lack remorse and empathy, so those types of arguments won't usually land. We also often have a weak or complete lack of a personal moral compass, so these phrases may lead to dismissal. Instead, communicate directly and neutrally with consequence-based phrases such as "if you do Y, X will happen".

Sorry yeah I should have been more specific

When a friend of mine with ASPD is in turmoil, what can I say to help them feel any better? I don’t want to accidentally give off the impression that I am pitying them

No worries.

When someone with ASPD is distressed or struggling, the best thing you can really do is just continue as usual. Don't treat them differently, don't try to fix it, don't try to help unless they specifically ask.

People with ASPD often have hair-trigger triggers about independence and autonomy. If you try to advise or suggest, it may come off like you're trying to tell them what to do or you don't think they're capable of handling the issue on their own.

Changing how you treat them or being overly nice when they're going through something can easily come off as pity. And that in itself can be extremely triggering to an antisocial.

So, best advice? Play it cool. Don't change anything about the way that you interact with them unless they specifically ask for it.

You can, if you want, just casually let them know that you're there if they want to talk, but make sure to make it a casual thing and not overplay it. It's unlikely they'll come to you for support, but knowing that you care can be meaningful all the same.

@aspd-confessions is there anything else you think we could offer as advice?

[doomer-soyjack]

Another day in which most cluster B personality disorder resources and groups are majorly composed of BPD and everyone brings awareness or support to people with it.

Either that, or if you look up specifically NPD or ASPD you'll get manuals on why we're wrong, and should be executed on sight or kill ourselves, and egotypicals or prosocials even with other personality disorders agreeing.

[dead-orange-club]

Cluster B Personality Disorder userboxes

Flags from this post!

Free to use!!

[little-cirrus-fibratus]

A genuine question for people with ASPD or/and NPD

People with ASPD (antisocial personality disorder) or/and NPD (narcissistic personality disorder), I am genuinely curious about what you believe is the core part of aspd and npd, and how you see the world. How does it feel to have these disorders? How do people treat you? How do you treat people? How can one understand how it must be like for you?

These disorders are VERY stigmatised. Even actual medical journals and sites perpetuate this stigmatisation, and there's this whole thing of "narcissistic abuse" or that all people with antisocial personality disorder are serial killers. I simply refuse to believe this, it's not nuanced enough, and I genuinely seek to understand. And maybe other people may find this thread of posts and also understand.

So people with npd/aspd, add on, explain anything you wish people knew about your disorder.

Coming from a fellow person with a highly stigmatised disorder (schizophrenia) who wishes to understand.

[titan-god-helios]

simply existing as neurodivergent is tiring.

no matter which it is, every neurodivergence comes with its own set of symptoms and traits that makes even sitting and trying to relax something that takes energy.

for me, my adhd makes it so that i have a CONSTANT inner monologue. and that "monologue" consists of SO much. it feels like there's a main monologue of my most prominent thoughts, another monologue in the background and another after that too, with music playing off in the distance, mental images flashing in and out and also having to stay present in the real world so i don't fuck everything up in real life. my brain is always on high speed and when it isn't there's still mental noise regardless from the monologue. and its fucking tiring. it makes my social battery lower than ever and means that i never truly get a moments' peace unless i superengineer my surroundings to force it. which again, takes energy.

if you add the fact that my autism connotes sensory issues, a baseline of anxiety for pretty much everything due to yk. uncertainty of situations, having to mask and be hypervigilant to keep up my masking etc, it becomes even more tiring. masking whilst being distracted in a conversation is even harder.

then my npd dogpiles essentially and makes it so there's a subsection of my inner monologue dedicated to screaming at me and mocking me or others all the time. that's fucking tiring.

i get intrusive thoughts. i disassociate a lot. my mood can change very quickly due to the emotional dysregulation that comes with my everything. that's tiring.

it feels like my brain is constantly doing its best to fuck with me at all times. and its doing a pretty damn good job at it.

that's not to mention other neurodivergences that other people may have such as did/osdd, schizospec disorders, cluster a, b and c personality disorders, down syndrome, dyslexia, dyspraxia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia, bipolar disorder, synaesthesia, intellectual disabilities, auditory processing disorders, anxiety disorders, depressive disorders, tourettes' syndrome, tic disorders, cerebral palsy, parkinsons', alexithymia (which i have and makes it exhausting to just. figure out how you feel at any given time and makes things such as giving consent much harder and lengthier) and so on

if you happen to have physical disabilities alongside neurodivergence, it's even fucking harder.

it's fucking hard. it's not a bed of roses, or doesn't only affect us when we're doing stuff. us sitting on the couch and trying to relax may take enormous amounts of effort that you simply do not see.

please be patient with us. we're trying our best.

[narcissisticpdcultureis]

questioning npd + conduct/aspd is having very violent homicidal thoughts and then day dreaming about getting caught and being prasied and feared in jail or the judge letting me off the hook because of my tear jerking empathy demanding life story

.

[cluster-b-culture-is]

(possibly) cluster B culture is wanting to stab urself in public to make sure everybody knows something's deeply wrong with you so that you get the spotlight, and at the same time hate being pitied or show any weakness or receive the consequences

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[aspd-confessions]

Hello! So I have been for a while questioning if I might have ASPD and I was wondering if understanding friendships as "I want you to give me company/ attention when I talk to you/ To be someone to listen to me/ Make me feel less lonely and lost and in return for this I shall put the effort to return this to you in a equal or similar manner" could be understood as transactional way of perceiving them in a more emotional way than a material one, also when those expectations aren't being met I kinda of loose interested in doing anything with this person or they feel more like a burden that I talk because "Is the only person I put the effort in actually talking and I don't want to do it all over again with someone else " thought

I'd consider this a transactional way of viewing friendship, yes.

[antisocialsharky]

Hello! I just wanted to say that I've been using some of your posts talking about ASPD to help me better understand it to write an OC I'm writing. I have a question though, do you mind talking about more symptoms of ASPD that I should keep in mind when writing her?

Hi! Very glad to hear that my posts have been helpful and its cool that you are aiming for good representation!

When it comes to how ASPD symptoms should be written and which ones should make it into literature, theres different opinions, so this is gonna go a bit beyond your question I guess? Just to get a roundabout view.

1. Recovery Position

• First thing to rly keep in mind is that the intensity of the symptoms, the way they present and the way the character would deal with them, absolutely depends on where they are in recovery.

• It also depends on what you understand as recovery, be that the reducing of overall symptoms so they are less often present, the act of reducing the harm that is done by your symptoms (ex: trough redirection, or actively learning prosocial behavior) or just learning to find a way to live in society the way you are. No ones view on recovery or the way they go about it (or if they decide not to) is in any way better or superior, but it is an aspect that does change how many symptoms you show in which way, so its important to think about when writing a character.

2. Covert/Overt Symptom Presentation

• Another thing to think about, depending on what fits into your story, is the question as to whether your character is very obviously antisocial, or whether they go about it in a more covert secret way. Can they control which symptoms they show when? Or are they lost to their impulses and emotions? Do they come from a background where hiding their symptoms was essential, or were they able/forced to present obviously?

• Theres also a more mixed presentation where some symptoms are more obvious and others are not, depending on stuff like what meets your needs best, how much control you have and whether or not you've done any active work on the symptoms yet, etc.

• Then you can also think about the personal opinion of your character on symptom presentation. Do they believe that they should get to just be themselves? Are they of the opinion that people just have to deal with their symptoms and accept them that way? Or do they think that they have to hide some symptoms in order to fit into society better? Have they potentially adopted some prosocial ways of thinking and model their presentation after that? Depending on what it is, it will obviously look different.

3. The Causes of their ASPD

• Depending on the type of trauma they went trough that made them develop ASPD, presentation will differ. Its highly individual of course, but theres some themes, like people who come from violent households often being violent themselves, people who were neglected struggling with the social aspects like empathy & remorse, people who were lied to/manipulated/berated all the time adopting similar manners, people who had to commit crimes and/or witnessed those often continuing to do so because its normal to them, etc.

• The other aspect is genetics, where certain tendencies can be given from parent to child or grandparent to grandchild, such as impulsive tendencies, the type of temper someone has, access (or denied access) to certain parts of the brain that are responsible for prosocial emotions, etc. Those genetics mix with the trauma and sometimes push the presentation in certain directions, so its a thing to keep in mind.

• Some CD/ASPD symptoms can also develop/be made worse trough bullying, intense experiences in childhood/teens, hanging around with people who engage in/normalize certain behaviors, etc. (ex: kids with delinquient tendencies who hang around other kids with those, may be more likely to develop that as a continous behavior). So its also worth thinking about who your character was around while they grew up, who influenced them how and what was normalized to them.

4. The Current DSM-V ASPD Criteria

• When it comes to the core symptoms of ASPD, theres 3 out of 7 DSM criteria points your character should meet. It doesn't matter which ones, but it has to be at least three! Your character should also be older than 18, have shown conduct disorder symptoms before they turned 15 and have their ASPD symptoms even in absence of other comorbidities, substances and/or episodes (Criterion B-D which I am not quoting, but thats it summed up)

• The 7 criteria points recognized in the DSM-V are (and I quote):

A. A pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of rights of others, occuring since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors, as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are ground for arrest.

2. Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases or conning others for personal profit or pleasure.

3. Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead.

4. Irritability or aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults.

5. Reckless disregard for safety of self or others.

6. Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations.

7. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated or stolen from another.

• Everything after "as indicated by" is an example of a possible presentation. The DSM-V acknowledges that there are other possible ways in which symptoms can show up.

5. The Alternative ASPD Model in the DSM-V

• This is not used to officially diagnose people with ASPD, but is one idea, as to how personality disorder classification could work in the future. It looks at the symptoms as dimensions, under which possible experiences could fall and mentions quite a few things the current criteria doesn't, so I'll quote it below as well:

A. Moderate or greater impairment in personality functioning, manifested by characteristic difficulties in two or more of the following areas:

1. Identity: Egocentrism, self esteem derived from personal gain, power or pleasure.

2. Self direction: Goal setting based on personal gratification, absence of prosocial internal standards, associated with failure to conform to lawful or culturally normative ethical behavior.

3. Empathy: Lack of concern for feelings, needs or suffering of others, lack of remorse after hurting or mistreating another.

4. Intimacy: Incapacity for mutually intimate relationships, as exploitation is primary means of relating to others, including by deceit and coercion, use of dominance or intimidation to control others.

B. Six or more of the following seven pathological personality traits:

1. Manipulativeness (an aspect of antagonism): Frequent use of subterfuge to influence or control others, use of seduction, charm, glibness, or ingratiation to achieve ones ends.

2. Callousness (an aspect of antagonism): Lack of concern for feelings or problems of others, lack of guilt or remorse about negative or harmful effects of ones actions on others, aggression, sadism.

3. Deceitfulness (an aspect of antagonism): Dishonesty and fraudulence, misrepresentation of self, embellishment or fabrication when relating events.

4. Hostility (an aspect of antagonism): Persistent or frequent angry feelings, anger or irritability in response to minor slights and insults, mean, nasty or vengeful behavior.

5. Risk taking (an aspect of disinhibition): Engagement in dangerous, risky and potentially self damaging activities, unnecessarily and without regard for consequences, boredom proneness and thoughtless initiation of activities to counter boredom, lack of concern for ones limitations and denial of the reality of personal danger.

6. Impulsivity (an aspect of disinhibition): Acting on the spur of the moment in response to immediate stimuli, acting on a momentary basis without a plan or consideration of outcomes, difficulty establishing and following plans.

7. Irresponsibility (an aspect of disinhibition): Disregard for - and failure to honor - financial and other obligations or commitments, lack of respect for - and lack of follow trough on - agreements and promises.

Note: The individual is at least 18 years of age.

6. Other Common Experiences

• Theres a few experiences that quite a few people with ASPD report, that have not explicitly made it into the criteria. Sometimes these are examples for certain symptoms and/or are implied, sometimes these have been studied but haven't been written as a requirement for diagnosis and sometimes these are not supported by science/still debated by science.

• Apathy, a total lack of emotion, overall muted emotions or having trouble to access certain emotions, is something some people with ASPD talk about a lot. There is no scientific consensus yet, as to whether this is an ASPD symptom. Some theories suggest it falls under PTSD (absence of positive emotions & tendency to experience negative ones and/or having dissociated away from the emotions and/or having put up a sort of non permanent barrier as a form of protection), depression (common comorbidity, anhedonia & apathy can both be part of it), other PDs (schizoid, borderline episodes, etc.) or something else entirely. While its not sure whether its caused by ASPD, or not, a lot of people with it seem to report differences in their capability to feel a full range of intense emotions.

• The criteria talks about aggressiveness and physical fights, which is not the only way in which this symptom seems to commonly present. Harming animals, homicidal ideation, dealing with aggressive thoughts & urges without actually acting on them, verbal aggression, taking out aggression on self or property, etc. are also often reported.

• The current criteria doesn't mention it at all and the alternative talks about a complete inability to form bonds, but community consensus seems to be, that while forming emotional bonds is harder & happens more rarely, it is still possible. The intensity differs (some describe the bond as a logical construct, some only do platonic bonds, some only do romantic bonds, some describe deep obsessiveness, etc.) as does the number of people they find themselves bonded with. Theres also a significant amount of people in the community that describe a phenamenon similar to BPDs FP (aka a bond to a person that is defined by the symptoms of the personality disorder).

• There is some debate on whether or not an absence of prosocial inner standards makes it impossible or more difficult to define personal morals and understand how morality works. Some people with ASPD say they have no difficulties, some report that they struggle with the understanding part, some say they struggle with upholding those norms and others struggle with both. It seems like ASPD could make it more difficult to understand and/or respect the way societies morals work for some, which makes room for conflict.

• Personality Disorders are what we call egosyntonic, which usually means that they are in alignment with what we as people think is the correct way to feel, think and act. This doesn't mean that its inherently impossible to change the way you think/feel/act and that recovery is impossible, but it may make it more difficult to break out of the patterns (if that is what one wants). Some people show little problems in this area, some need a lot of outer assistance and others either can't or don't want to change.

7. Other Things To Keep In Mind

• You should probably think about whether your character fits the psychopathy subtype & if yes which definition of it you want to use (theres different theories)

• ASPD can influence every aspect of your life, so it may interfere with things in such a roundabout way that you wouldn't even think about it at first (ex: Disregard for safety of self => Disregard for your own health => You get ill carelessly => You dont take ur meds responsibly, or put off a doctors visit for months/years => You end up with longterm damage => You don't treat it responsibly => You get more ill => Death. Which happens to ppl without ASPD too, but can indeed be a presentation of that symptom.). Additionally comorbdities interact & interfere with ASPD symptoms and may alter/add onto presentation!

• You could also always add the ASPD stigma into the mix and how your character responds to it/how it influences them. Does it make them not wanna recover? Does it make them wanna recover even more to prove everyone wrong? Are they trying to get into therapy but no therapist wants them? Is it on a court record and causing problems that way? Do they lose relationships/friendships? Does it change the way they see themselves or others? etc.

• The key with ASPD characters is not to just make them into good people or portray them as angels and also not to always make them into the cruel villain. The key is to show that they are an individual, a human being, a single example for what this disorder can present as. If you can somehow portray that the presentation of ASPD in your character is just how this specific character is and is not how the disorder inherently presents itself, you nailed it! Cus u'll have ASPDers who want to just stay the way they are and who are exactly what you'd imagine a cruel villain to be like, you have ASPDers who you couldn't ever distinguish from a prosocial person, cus they learned to blend in and you've got ASPDers who decide that they wanna do a 180 and behave in the most prosocial way possible and then you have everything in between and beyond. So as long as your character would meet criteria, as long as you're not spreading misinfo and as long as its clear that its just one example of a possible presentation, you're good in my opinion (but this is indeed just my opinion and others may disagree).

Note: If you need examples for the specific symptoms, you can ofc send another ask, this is more of a general overview of what exists, cus going into detail on each would make this post wayyy too long.

[egosuicide666]

i wish i could be more open about my sadistic traits. i feel so different from other people. i’m not sure if i want to be like everyone else . i like being different but it gets lonely. no matter what i feel incredibly lonely. like i’m an alien in this society. i feel so exhausted talking lately. what’s the point in talking if i’m not entertained? i rlly only talk on here and to my best friend. but that’s really it. i’ve gave up talking. it’s boring. small talk is boring.

[doomer-soyjack]

I don't know why people get so defensive and morally superior when you point out the nature of human relationships is transactional. I'm not denying or diminishing your "love", I'm just pointing something out.

[aspd-culture]

aspd + probably delusional culture is feeling like some kind of substance abuse will fix you (it definitely wont but can't hurt to try right?) (it definitely can but oh well)

aspd-culture-is

[ur-all-fucking-idiots]

Serious question to 'normal' ppl:

Why do u talk to ppl?

To me it's a cure for boredom, but I've been told this isn't the case for most ppl and now I'm curious