#you can just fucking kill the joker

[swamp-spirit]

I'm obsessed with the confluence of meta-decisions that led to Under the Red Hood as a story.

Like, we have the Joker, who was supposed to die in one of the first issues because Finger worried having re-occuring villains would make Batman look incompetent. The editor nixed it, and the Joker lived.

Jason Todd, meanwhile, had the opposite pressure. Laugh at the Robin insecurity trend all you want, but it represents the very real reaction of fandom. Fans /hated/ Jason for not being Dick, and called in to have him killed. He was quite directly murdered by fandom itself, and there was some genuine ghoulish cruelty from the fans calling in for his death.

The Joker was saved by editorial medling, Jason Todd was killed by fan vote.

And then UtRH brings back Finger's initial concern. Because, as much as fandom wants to argue to morals, the rogues live because the IP must be protected, because comics thrive on the status quo, the ability to bring back the big names and replay the same tragedies. UtRH digs into the pain that might bring to the characters, where their death changes nothing, where the characters who don't sell will be replaced and forgotten and their killers are immortal.

In a way, the real rage is at the medium/industry itself. The industry that killed Jason for being unpopular, then replaced him with another Robin immediately, the industry where no consequence can be permanent because, no matter how many times you killed a big hero or rogue, another writer or editor will always bring them back.

In story, Jason and Bruce aren't really having a moral argument. Jason is saying "I want you to love me enough to make me feel safe and make me feel like my death mattered. I want to be assured I am still worth protecting, even if I've grown and changed" and Bruce is saying "I love you, but there's no amount of love that will make me cross that line". They want the same thing. They want to be father and son. They want the Joker dead.

Over them looms the weight of the status quo. Bruce has tried to kill the Joker. Hell, after Jason's death, he wasn't stopped by a rule against killing, he was stopped because of a weird, racist plot where the Joker became an ambassador from Iran. Bruce can never be the father Jason needs, can't kill the Joker and hang up the hood, because he is Batman, and Batman sells issues.

And Red Hood is held back too, because he can't be 'the man who can do what Batman can't' because they can't have a DC character offing rogues. Writers had to choose between defanging him or making him a rogue himself.

Gotham can never heal, because the story cannot end. The Joker has lived almost 100 years, has been countless different characters, has changed backstories and motives, but he will never die.

[necrotic-nephilim]

For the ask game, Jason/Tim where the Pit makes Jason possessive rather than mad and so he imprints on Tim as being his and needing to take him and make him fully his, turn Tim into Jason's own creature? I think that could be a cool idea, since the Pit has different effects on different people.

for the ask game!

oooh, i love explorations of what the Pit does to the psyche, especially if it falls outside of the typical Pit Madness schtick. here's how i would try and write that

so what i think is fun about Jason and the Pit is, he wasn't *dead* when he got dunked, he was just mentally catatonic. dunking him in the Pit was a gamble on Talia's part and Ra's even points out in Red Hood: Lost Days it may not work. so to have it work but just... wire Jason *differently* is a lot of fun to me. i like the idea of Jason being a bit aimless after the Pit. he's got his wits to him but it's still the "came back wrong" vibes. and when Talia shows him the pictures of Tim as Robin, trying to show him that Bruce replaced him, it has the opposite effect. Jason's wires are crossed in all sorts of directions and all he can think of is he won't let what happened to him happen to another kid. so he spirals, looking into Tim and getting more and more obsessed. what starts as a genuine concern for Tim's safety becomes a possessive imprinting. Tim becoming Jason's purpose.

one of the defining things about Jason's feelings on Tim, in canon, is feeling like Tim is being held back by his loyalty to Bruce. so, i don't know how literal you meant creature, but i'm taking it balls to the walls bc i like fucked up monster vibes. the *how* is the fun part of it. it's easy for Jason to corner Tim, kidnap him. but how does Jason decide to corrupt Tim? i know the Court of Owls is a New-52 thing and i'm going off of pre-Flashpointt, but, i think it'd be fun to steal it. just because well. i really fucking like Talons. and Jason making Tim a Talon would be a twofold thing- for one, it protects Tim. it's a lot harder to kill a Talon than a person. and for two, it makes Tim easier to control. i think Tim would fight it hard, but the Talon programming combined with Jason's fierce protectiveness would snap him pretty easily.

Jason would be smart about it. he'd keep Tim locked up for at least a few months. because if Robin goes missing, then the calvary is going to start looking for him. Batman, Nightwing, Batgirl, Oracle, Huntress, the Titans, everyone. and Jason knows even if he puts a mask on Tim, he needs to wait. needs to let the smoke blow over. so for months, it's just Jason and Tim somewhere underground where no one can find them. that's where the bulk of their bonding comes in. because i do think Jason would want Tim to *genuinely* like him outside of just monsterous programming. Jason would work to earn that trust, even if it's through manipulation. tbh i think he'd lie to Tim, either gaslighting Tim about his loved ones not looking for him, or straight up tell Tim he's imagining having been Robin. anything that deconstructs Tim's idea of a support system outside of Jason. Jason is Tim's savior, in his eyes, and he'd want Tim to believe that too. that Jason had to protect Tim, from the Bat. very fucked up vibes.

once Jason's sure it's safe, he'd slowly start making his presence known as Red Hood, with Tim by his side. Jason would still want to do the whole Red Hood thing, but now, he has the ability to taunt Bruce about Tim. it'd be a fun mind game for Jason, telling Bruce that he lost *another* Robin. (three, if you count Steph) meanwhile, Jason gets to go home to Tim the whole time. it's a fun game to him, while also making him preen that he's protecting what he believes belongs to him.

eventually, the truth would come out. but by then, Tim's too deep in Jason's pocket to listen to anyone, even Dick. he'd lash out at anyone claiming Jason is manipulating him, and he'd be Jason's perfect little partner. very fucked up ending where Jason and Tim are "happy" together, but in the most fucked up way. i'd give Tim a new codename, something like Shrike because that sounds fun and pointy. they'd almost be a Batman and Robin parallel/foil, in a way.

also, just as a bonus alternative: another route i think you could take this idea is playing with Joker Junior. like, Jason imprinting on Tim *just* as Joker kidnaps Tim. so that's what sets Jason's plans into action, he was going to wait for the perfect moment but now, Tim is missing and Jason will be *damned* if someone gets to Tim first. and since Jason has well. firsthand experience with the Joker, he's able to find Tim first and since Tim is so mentally shattered at this point, it makes him easy to manipulate. easy to get him to traumabond onto the person who saved him and even once he's mentally recovered, he's so attached to Jason he wouldn't want to leave Jason. and maybe Jason would use Lazarus Resin or something similar to make Tim more creature-like, and even get Tim to agree to it, under the guise of it helping protect Tim. this route could be fun bc it plays more with just how "consensual" it is for Tim and how much he really has his wits about him, choosing Jason after being brainwashed.

[gece-misin-nesin]

Regarding Batman and Responsibility: A Rant

So, whenever there is talk about the age old question of "Should Batman kill Joker?" there is always, and I mean always someone who says something along the lines of: "But it's not Batman's responsibility to kill Joker so it's wrong to put the burden onto him." and on the surface this seems like a reasonable argument. After all, there is a police department in gotham, there is a government, so shouldn't we hold them accountable as well? Well, not exactly.

(Warning: I probably mispelled responsibility and responsible a LOT in this post, please don't begrudge me for it.)

Of course, those institutions ARE responsible for the Joker to some degree but the real question, to me, is: why is Batman considered as "NOT responsible" when he very much is.

People who make this argument usually say: "Well Batman is a volunteer, a vigilante! This is practically none of his bussiness." And true, Bruce isn't required to be a vigilante, he does it entirely out of his own volition. But is that not the whole reason why he IS responsible? I mean, Bruce is the one who CHOSE to take up that responsibilty, he is the one who CHOSES to shoulder that burden. In that sense he isn't that different from a government official/cop/etc. those people do it of their on will too don't they? Bruce, day after day, year after year, choses to fight for Gotham, to protect it and its people; he takes those responsibilities onto himself and yet... stopping Joker somehow, isn't one of them?

In my opinion, it is hypocritical. Bruce is the one who says things like "Gotham is MY city" or "I don't allow metas in Gotham, you need MY permission." or "You can't operate as a vigilante in Gotham without my say-so."(Stephanie Brown, anyone?) he routinely describes his vigilantism as a "war on crime"(which, yikes) and calls it a "crusade" and says it is his "mission" no? He chooses to do these things all on his own, no one forces him to. At a certain point, it's a matter of integrity. He can't pick and choose what exactly constitutes to protecting Gotham and what doesn't. He can't decide that beating up muggers in the streets is extremely important and is his job while improving Arkham isn't. He can't decide that, despite putting Joker in Arkham over and over again knowing he's going to escape, he isn't at least partly responsible for Joker's future victims. He can't keep stopping people from killing Joker(Under the Red Hood, hello!), saving Joker from the death row, putting Joker into a Lazarus Pit, or saving him from natural disasters(because you KNOW he would) and then claim "Oh, but killing Joker isn't my responsibility." He can't willingly claim responsibility for Gotham in every other scenario, EXCEPT for that. That's just having your cake and trying to eat it too. Unless he decided that by saving Joker he is not actually harming Gotham, by allowing Joker to live he is actively NEGLECTING his mission, his duty. And anyway, I thought the whole point of superhero comics was that people with power to better things shoud use those powers to do exactly that. Batman DOES have the power to "better" Gotham, he just isn't using it.

"Killing Joker isn't Batman's responsibility." No, it is. Because protecting Gotham and its people IS his responsibility, as he took it onto himself. If he didn't want to deal with the consequences of such a thing then he shouldn't have become a vigilante in the first place.

Mind you, this doesn't mean he's the ONLY one responsible, far from it, just that he is.

(I genuinely don't remember whether I made a post on this before but I have ranted about this to myself outloud when alone multiple times and if I have to think about this so do you)

[And YES we all know the real reason is because Joker is DC's cashcow, that is not the point of this post...]

[starlooove]

Hello! What about Duke Thomas made you like him so much??

I've been checking out his tag cause I saw some really cool fanart of him, so now I'm curious on what makes his character so appealing

AWHWHW sorry pls bare with me I’m scatterbrained but like. In a sentence I love that Duke is someone who presses forward despite everything! Like this is draft two bc my first answer was just listing character traits which wasn’t the question; but what I personally adore about him is that he just doesn’t stop moving.

It sounds weird but like. To me he gives refusal to die, refusal to settle, refusal to give up. When riddler took Gotham Duke was certain HE’D be the one to save them if he tried hard enough, when Bruce lost his memories Duke tried to get him back and then pushed forward with his own plans with the certainty that Batman would come back - whether through him or not, when his parents went missing he said fuck the system and went after them anyways and that’s just like. Off the top of my head. Like as corny as it sounds Duke lowkey embodies what I love about Batman - the whole indomitable human spirit or however you say that and it’s by far my favorite trait bc I don’t even think he’s aware of it? Like he actively plays at not caring about the Robin movement and just wanting to find his parents but like 3 hours later he’s texting them going ‘but like what are the details if I joined lol. Like hypothetically.” He actively fights Damian until he agrees with him, becomes a leader within the movement until Bruce is back whilst dodging gcpd, and Bruce literally had to dress up as karma for Duke to admit maybe it did fuck him up a little - all for him to still be like “I’m not good enough :(‘.

And I know that all seems like shit he just did but I promise his mindset during these things is so fascinating to me bc it’s like he simultaneously understands not many others would do this whilst also holding it as bare minimum/base standards. Like I make joke posts about him being a hardass but tbh he doesnt judge anyone half as hard as he judges himself - he understands bad circumstances, plans going left, differing povs - all until he makes a mistake; then he sucks and needs to be better. He’s also just hilarious like I didn’t read him in chrono order so the first thing I saw was him in a fight with some girls brother bc he heard Duke was flirting with her and idk an opening like that just cemented him as cool to me.

ALSO (from the tags!) I ADOREEEEEE HOW MUCH HE LOVES THE ADRENALINE/RUSH OF FIGHTING! Like Duke got in a lot of fights while his parent were missing and besides the obvious acting out bc he’s hurt he also just genuinely loves the rush of it - like not my interpretation he outright says it! And i need to do a reread for him bc I feel like it wasn’t mentioned a lot but if the og fight was the hook, the adrenaline line is what reeled me in and keeping it in mind while reading stories of him going off on his own for the good of Gotham adds another layer to it bc it’s not SOLEY necessity for him! Like things happened to line up where there was always a void that needed to be filled when he got involved in anything but it genuinely feels like duke wouldve been here no matter the circumstances. like even in civilian aus the way duke as a character is set up makes it so that it feels like - to me anyways- theres no world in which hes not doing or striving towards something! duke isnt the type to just be comfortable, bad wording, but hes just a very hungry character to me - if for an adventure or a solution. Its conveniently been both for most of his career but im very interested for what happens internally when those two clash - which. i personally think the nature of his powers and gnomon could bring that out beautifully!

[h3llofaday]

There is something so mortifying knowing that with the new joker movie redoing the whole Harley Quinn “Mad Love” ark that there will probably be hundreds of incels romanticizing her abuse and her heartbreaking devotion to a man who abuses her AGAIN right when the internet finally started to get that romanticizing joker/harley is bad

[moe-broey]

When it comes to horny art esp in FEH like. I'm always split between "I don't wanna be sex negative and prudish that's stupid" and "Okay but there IS a misogyny problem (specifically about how female characters are portrayed/treated)" and "I'm Sorry Women (I do like huge titties and stupid slutty outfits)" and "I'm a huge anatomy nerd and what's pissing me off the most are the shit proportions here actually"

^ This user is on the asexuality spectrum.

[carebooks]

am i the only one out here disappointed by the edits on yt made with taylor’s ‘who’s afraid of little old me?’

it’s has such a female rage quality to it, so when i see a character like paul atreides, anakin skywalker, the JOKER being used for that song— it’s like no one ever listened to it.

the song isn’t about going down the bad path or becoming a villain, it’s about someone who after being pushed to the edge so many times, being withheld from things, and not getting a choice. she’s called crazy and it is because they’re doing it to her intentionally. she played the game too well that they had to put her down in order to control her again.

but she doesn’t let that happen. she finally breaks away from it, she realizes they’re afraid of her and she can use that. and she learned from them, so she can use that too. it’s a quiet build up and despite what people think that it’s a villain-era song, it’s more about putting on this villain-looking cloak to protect yourself from what’s happened.

[distort-opia]

the fact that joker needs batman more than he needs joker is a very interesting factor of batjokes, makes me bitter as fuck (pardon my language), but still, a very interesting part of their relationship.

never have i thought that batman and joker's relationship would hit so close to home for me. in one of your posts ive seen someone mention that joker loves but hates batman for that exact reason and man. why did they make joker so damn relatable.

Yeah, it's definitely a conflict on Joker's part, which tends to get a bit overlooked in fandom. Joker is obsessed with, and in love, with Batman -- but he doesn't always like it. He's been trying to kill the guy and telling him he hates him, almost as frequently as he's told him he loves him. But yeah, both me and @lankylordoflevity have discussed this somewhere in my asks before.

But you know, while Joker does undoubtedly need Bruce more... his love for Bruce is a lifeline in many ways. His obsession with Batman gave him a purpose, kept him alive after he fell into the acid vat; his love is everything he has that matters, but it's so all-encompassing because he's got absolutely nothing else. Joker doesn't have a family, or any kind of moral rules, or anything that important to him. While Joker is conflicted about his dependence on Batman's existence, at the end of the day, to him... this love gives much more than it takes away.

But Bruce stands to lose so much. His inability to let Joker go has caused so much harm already. He's made some very questionable choices over time, among which him nearly killing Jason at the end of UtRH to save Joker's life is probably the biggest. His relationship with Jason suffered as a result; all of his relationships suffer from it, one way or another. After being shot in the spine, Barbara had to hear that Batman was seen laughing together with the man who shot her. Over the years, she had to watch Bruce go out of his way to save Joker's life, even when she asked him not to, even when it wouldn't have contradicted Bruce's rules to let Joker die. His relationship with Joker was a big obstacle even in his relationship with Selina; that's kind of the plot of Batman/Catwoman. And this is something Snyder saw too -- how difficult this pattern of Bruce's is to overlook, and how hard the Batfamily avoids addressing it. Death of the Family is literally about the impact of Bruce's selfish and reckless actions regarding Joker on the Family, and the understandable rift that follows when they can't help but realize Joker wasn't wrong. Because the reality is, Bruce has saved Joker's life so many times and in such ridiculous conditions at this point that it's baffling. And what Joker keeps doing after is more murder, more destruction, and worst of all: he keeps being a danger to all the people Bruce loves. Yet Bruce can't find it in him to genuinely let him die.

I guess, what I mean is, Bruce is the one to suffer the biggest consequences for his side of things. Hundreds of deaths, untold destruction, the eternal possibility of Joker crossing another line and killing more of his Family. Joker may need Batman more because he's got nothing else... but how many more excuses can Bruce come up with, to himself and to others, for the fact he keeps risking so much to keep Joker alive? In the end, what's crazier? Needing someone so badly that loving them is barely a choice, or choosing someone again and again no matter the costs while claiming you don't love them?

Don't know if that helps with the bitterness, Anon. Kind of ended up going off with my own thoughts about this. But for me a fascinating part of Batjokes is Bruce's own side of things, that often gets dismissed as him not reciprocating, or him being less invested. Joker is loud and vocal about his love, and it's easy to take him on his word; when actually, Joker would be the first to balk at the idea of a relationship that involved anything other than violence. Bruce is vocal about his hatred for Joker and his wish that Joker would die, but his actions contradict that time and time again; when he's the one to reach out and the one to keep Joker alive, even when Joker himself is trying his damndest to die. As the villain, if someone else murders him, or if Bruce snaps and kills him, Joker... wins. It's what he wants. But Bruce loses when he keeps Joker alive, and he'd lose himself if he finally murdered Joker.

One way or the other, Bruce always loses.

[daisybell-on-a-carousel]

Honestly, sometimes it's not even about the Joker

[pinkopalina]

as a huge batjokes shipper i want batman and joker to hate each other in the sense they dont really hate each other, they just have really different goals and see their own version of potential in the other and right now hate is the best word for their situationship. they both love the other for what they could be but neither of them wants to be what the other one wants, and that's equally as frustrating as it is necessary for them to keep existing in their current roles. they're deadlocked and that fate surrounding each other is kind of the point -- we both have to be like this, the opposite of what the other wants, for us to keep existing at all, and for giving me that gift i both love and hate you. it's an agreement. i think the hate that's there now is born from an intense underlying love.

i think batman "hates" joker for being so amazing and smart and cunning, for being able to create grand gestures and schemes, to pull people together under his charisma and make them all believe in something, for being as extraordinary as he is but batman hates that he uses it to hurt people. he hates that joker can't channel his energy into doing something good for the world, that he hurts himself and others just because he wants to be batman's greatest enemy. i think batman wants to help joker but also hates him at this point for joker exhausting him, constantly getting hurt both emotionally and physically by him, joker never trying to improve his situation, throwing away other people's lives, showing batman he loves him by lashing out and hurting him. batman hates joker because he loves his rogues, he wants to help them, and he knows they can do better. he wants to live in a gotham that doesn't need batman but he still needs to be needed, because when there's no batman, what is bruce going to be? without joker, he will continue being batman, but it's an empty crusade. some of my favorite interactions between harvey and bruce are the ones where harvey thanks bruce for "always being there for me, never giving up on me, my very best friend." even with someone like harvey, bruce can still hold onto that hope for his rogues, never give up on them, keep going for them, even if it puts them through the cycle one more time.

i think joker hates batman in the most toxic way possible, but it's still love. i just think he's selfish and doesn't want batman to think about anyone else but him, the same way he operates for batman, but if he must think about other people then joker will make it as amazing as possible! i think he hates batman for wasting his time on ordinary people, people who are so boring that batman claims he has to protect and serve and love them but joker thinks it's all surface-level. batman won't kill joker but he'll leave room for people dying in his crusade. it's a choice he allows, and even if joker knows that's a morally fucked up way to put someone in a box, he doesn't care. batman is the type of person to train himself mentally and physically for decades and dress up in a half-silly-half-menacing costume so that everyone can have an idea about him. batman himself is not normal, and joker knows that and loves that! why is he wasting his time trying to save people that use him, abuse him, don't want him to be the best he can be? i think joker's motivations for loving batman and lashing out as if he hates him lie somewhere in between extreme admiration -- like i truly believe in your cause and that you're the right person to do it, but i'm so angry at you for wasting your time on other people and i'm so hurt and jealous that you choose them over me, just so you can be a hypocrite and let them die if i want them to anyways -- and anger at his hypocrisy -- like it's easy for joker to dedicate himself to chaos and just being in batman's life by putting batman in situations that force him to be a better and better hero, but how can batman sit there and choose and pick what morals he'll uphold and who gets to live and who gets to die?

i want to be your greatest enemy because you are the greatest hero ever, and the only way you and i can keep being the best at what we do is if we do it together, because of what we both believe in.

[liedownquisition]

Whenever someone is all arguing like "I hate the fanon where Bruce gets mad about people killing Joker because he canonically wants the bitch dead!" yeah he canonically does and you know what else is canon? his adamant refusal to let anyone actually make it happen. Slit Jason's throat* over it. Fought with Diana and multiple other League members about it. Resuscitated him when Dick did it**. Has actively gotten in the way of other Gothamites who tried to kill Joker, often by also getting into vigilantism (see: Clownhunter). Only one on his side about it is Clark, who stopped HIM from doing it in the back half of ditf! He wants the bitch dead and also holds the steadfast belief that he is not allowed to play judge, jury, and executioner about it, and won't let anyone else do it.

So, while fanon might exaggerate Batman's displeasure about it, or focus on the wrong parts of what he'd be upset about, or any number of other things that could be said to be "out of character" for Batman (if such a thing can even be true anymore), Bruce is definitely not going to be just happily accepting it when someone finally does the deed. It would be a complicated mess, and, yes, he would be relieved on some level, but he also just wouldn't be able to let it stand particularly in the case of anyone who does it without remorse or guilt because they consider themselves justified in doing so, regardless of whether or not they ARE.

*I acknowledge the fact that the panel is ambiguous and very much mirrors another panel in utrh shortly beforehand where Jason was hit in the shoulder with a batarang, but the extreme difference in how Jason reacted really does come off as a much more serious wound. Also, fundamentally: the intent of where he wanted to hit vs where he did in this case very much does not matter: he chose to incapacitate Jason and basically allowed Joker to blow the place up by trying to find his third option. It was still a parental betrayal towards a guy who LITERALLY DIED because of a parental betrayal and an explicit statement that Bruce's ability to provide care for Jason is incompatible with what Jason actually needs from him. As much as I hate to say it, the Joker said it best: Everybody loses, except for him. **I'm AWARE that he resuscitated him so Dick wouldn't have to deal with the consequences of committing murder, esp emotional fallout given his earlier(?) reactions to the Blockbuster thing. (I admit I forget the timeline here a little bit.) NEVERMIND the fact that that shouldn't have WORKED from a MEDICAL standpoint. NEVERMIND the fact that it's bcs editorial won't kill the clown. If he wants the bitch dead so badly you know what the best thing he could have done in the aftermath? Tell him the same thing he did about Blockbuster: That he forgives him. Whether or not he has the emotional capacity to help Dick cope with that kind of thing tends to depend on the writer, but he could have done That Much.

[vikingpoteto]

you mentioned it'd been awhile since you read that arc with babs talking about killing the joker (last laugh) and the max humor in the situation is that's in issue #3 and Dick is like where does it end Babs we can't kill. And then in issue #6 Dick thinks the Joker killed Tim and Dick beats the Joker to death. like idr Helena or somebody gives the Joker cpr as if somehow starting his heart will uncave in his diaphragm lmao

god, that's frustrating. See, I wouldn't mind that as a plot point if it was intentional or at least addressed. It makes sense that it's easy for Dick (or Bruce, or Tim, or anyone really) to say that they have to be better than that and then not follow through when emotions are high.

I don't mind suspending my disbelief and accepting characters surviving impossible situations if it meant a more interesting story, but the Joker surviving means that Dick doesn't have to examine his actions - and that WOULD make for an interesting arc since Dick is a really passionate and sometimes impulsive person.

I know comics are obsessed with keeping the status quo because changing it would mean they can't keep publishing the same character forever but the Joker went stale about 50 years ago and he brings nothing interesting to the story. The only reason he's alive is plot armor otherwise a random person with a gun would have killed him already. Hell, one of his goons would've, if not for being pushed too far, they would do it for self-defense.

[glow-in-the-dark-death]

To Be Wooed

I blacked out and wrote this. This is so silly to me.

Enjoy!

Look Danny didn't mean to kill the Joker it was an honest mistake, he was still recovering from escaping the GIW and whatever they had used on him had still been in effect when he honest to Ancients ran into the fake clown.

Of course it doesn't look like an accident with how he left the Joker

But it was!

Really it really was!

Whatever the GIW did was out of his system, but that still left a very dead and coreless Joker.

Yeah...apparently Joker had a core, but not anymore because he ate it like it was pop rock candy, if the weird cousin spicy version of it. He still feels like he has some of it stuck in his teeth.

Anyways! Not the point!

Joker! Very dead at his feet, what is he supposed to do-

THUMP

Oh Ancients he's going to die again that's the Red Hood!

"Uh...I can explain, well not really. But it was an accident! I promise and-"

"You killed him?"

"I'm really sorry? He bumped into me, it was an accident I swear!"

"Go on a date with me."

WHa-what?! Did he just hear correctly why would he ask him out out of nowhere it made no sense and..oh.

Red Hood's been touched by Death not like him but enough to count, and enough to have some ghostly instincts.

Okay ghostly courting he can do that, he totally can, no sweat!

Shit who is he kidding he may have the instincts but he was never actually taught how he's supposed to use them or anything.

Well he's always been good at making it up as he goes, and at least his instincts will help push him in the right direction.

So he should just do what feels natural to him.

"Yes I'll go out with you. If I were to make jewelry and knives out of his bones would you accept them?"

"...For me to wear and use. Yes."

~

Danny freaking out about just killing and kinda eating someone: I'm in so much trouble!

Jason behind him fixing his appearance: "Well hello there handsome come by here often?"

~

Joker bumping into Danny: "ahAHA you will make a good experiment!"

Danny is high as a kite and getting the munchies: "I didn't know I could order food with my mind!"

Joker: "Whut-"

~

Jason seeing Danny absolutely wrecking Jokers shit: *Ghost Instincts Activated*

~

Jason falling fast for Danny without even knowing his name: "Can I pretty please kiss you?"

Danny realizing what's going on but still being clueless: "Does that mean you will accept these gifts made from Jokers bones?"

Jason's Ghost Instincts rising to a fever pitch: "I'm going to woo the fuck out of ya and then we'll get married then we'll fu-"

~

Danny's Ghostly Instincts being connected to his 'Protection' & Jason's to his 'Revenge' showing these kind of specific gestures towards them is incredibly romantic.

~

Jason and Danny's relationship basically:

~

~

~

#They're like Morticia & Gomez absolutely smitten for each other

#Jason brings a crying & beaten up GIW who has been stalking Danny

#Danny almost swooned

#They start flirting with each other while standing on top of the GIW dude

#Jason's goons are happy that their boss found 'The One' apparently but can they please stop eyefucking each other while they're there and-

~

Just an Idea

[cloakedsparrow]

Dick: Okay, I think we’re gonna have to do ‘Good Cop, Bad Cop’.

Jason: Yeah. It’s tropey but it works.

Dick: Exactly. Wanna flip for Bad Cop?

Jason: You’re kidding.

Dick: Or we could play Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock?

Jason: Dude, I can’t be Good Cop. I kill people, remember? You can’t kill people and be Good Cop.

Dick: Those were traffickers and mob lieutenants. These are Rogue goons.

Jason: What, like that matters?

Dick: Yes, that matters. They don’t care that you took out some mobsters. They care that you revived the Joker after beating him to death and then let him go.

Jason: I didn’t revive him, I just didn’t let him die yet! And I didn’t let him go either! That was Batman! I was gonna kill the psycho!

Dick: Yeah, well, you still kept him alive and the goons probably know it. Just like they know I was happy to leave him dead when I killed him.

Jason: What?

Dick: You heard me.

Jason: You…?

Dick: Killed the Joker? Yes. I thought he killed Timmy and then when I confronted him, he said your name and…I didn’t stop hitting him until he choked on his own blood.

Jason: Then…how is he still alive?

Dick: Batman revived him.

Jason Fucking what?

Dick: Yeah.

Jason: Well, now I definitely can’t be Good Cop. I’m way to pissed for that shit.

Dick: Well, so am I.

Jason: Fuck.

Dick: Fuck.

Jason: So now whadda we do? Try to beat it outta him?

Dick: No, he'll lock down. That's why I suggested "Good Cop, Bad Cop" to begin with.

Jason: So we need a Good Cop.

Dick: Okay, I’m gonna call Timmy and see if he can come play Good Cop.

Jason: Good plan.

Dick [talking into a secure (& Batman-proof) phone]: Hey, Robin, you busy?

Tim [on speakerphone]: Kinda, yeah. What’s going on? You sound weird.

Dick: Hood and I need to get some intel from a goon, and we’re thinking “Good Cop, Bad Cop” is the way to go but neither of us can pull off Good Cop right now.

Tim: Shit. I’m in Bangkok right now-

Jason: The fuck are you doing in Bangkok?

Tim: Speedy needed help with a thing.

Dick: In Bangkok?

Tim: No. She’s in Korea.

Jason: So, again, why the fuck are you in Bangkok?

Tim: Because Lady Shiva’s here and she’s perfect for what Speedy needs, so I’m calling in a favor she owes me.

Dick: You’re calling in a favor from Lady Shiva because Speedy needs help with a thing in Korea.

Tim: Yep. You got it.

Dick: No, that’s- You say that like it doesn’t require any further-

Tim: Can you hang on for a second? There’s an assassin tailing me.

Dick: Shit. Do you need us to send someone out there?

Jason; Starfire should be done with her thing by now. She's not on your shit list, right?

Tim: No, I like Kori. But I’m good now. My assassin got the other assassin.

Dick: You have an assassin?

Tim: Kinda? She defected from the League of Assassins and is up for hire but she always gives me priority since she feels like she owes me a life-debt.

Dick: Again, you sound like you think that statement doesn’t require any further explanation.

Jason: So you hired your assassin buddy to kill the other assassin?

Tim: What? No. Of course not. She didn’t kill him. We’ll question him later. She never kills on my jobs since she knows I don’t like it.

Dick: What about other jobs?

Tim: That’s her business. We aren’t all control freaks, you know.

Dick: That’s-

Jason: That’s good, Little Red. Good that you have healthy boundaries.

Dick: I have healthy boundaries.

Jason: Sure you do.

Tim: Okay, you’re gonna have to argue that on your own. I’m supposed to help my friends out with something after I get Shiva to help Speedy, but I have to handle this interrogation first. So how about I just send my friends the twenty-five plans I drew up and ask Bunker if he minds helping you out before he joins us? He should be able to get inside Gotham in less than ten minutes.

Jason: Oh, Bunker’s perfect for Good Cop.

Tim: Right? They’ll spill everything and probably give him their grandma’s secret family recipes on top of it.

Dick: Wait. Back it up. You have twenty-five plans drawn up? What are you guys up against?

Tim: Nothing we can’t handle. Young Justice figures, why even bother with a plan B if you aren’t gonna cover the whole alphabet?

Jason: There’s twenty-six letters in the alphabet, Little Red.

Tim: Yeah, but plan Z is always the same, so we don’t bother listing it anymore.

Dick: Is it ‘get an adult’?

Tim: Of course not.

Jason: When you were a Teen Titan, how often did you call in an adult when you probably should have?

Dick: Okay, that’s fair.

Jason: So what’s plan Z?

Tim: ‘Fuck it, we ball’.

Dick: That’s not a pl-

Jason: That’s perfect. I love it.

Dick: No. Don’t encourage him.

Tim: Thanks, Red. So do you want me to ask Bunker about helping you? I’m kinda on a time crunch now.

Jason: Yes, please.

Tim: Okay. He’s on the way. Is there anything else?

Dick: Whe-

Jason: No, we’re good. Have fun storming the castle!

Tim: ‘Kay, bye!

Jason: Bye!

Dick: The fuck-

Jason: Bunker and I can handle the interrogation here and Timmy and his assassin friend are gonna be busy with an interrogation there for a bit. If you take off now, you can probably catch up with him and go all big brother like you’re dying to.

Dick: You sure?

Jason: Yeah, I’m sure me and Bunker can handle this asshole.

Dick: Thank you.

Jason: Yeah, well, you did kill the Joker. That’s gotta count for something, right?

Dick: I’ll tell you all about it after I make sure Timmy doesn’t get himself killed or lose another organ.

Jason: I’ll hold you to- Timmy lost an organ?

Dick [already calling Kori to get him to Tim]: Later. I’m on a time crunch now!

Jason: I’m holding you to that!

Jason: *sighs* No one in this family knows how to share.

[nightingale-prompts]

How to Raise Your BatBoy

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Dick sighed into his cup of coffee. This is not what he wanted to see when he woke up in the morning. That and the giant bat wing covering his face this morning.

Danny was getting bigger. Not physically but his bat features are changing. The teen was getting better at changing shape. His ears are sharper ending in slight points, his fingers are more clawlike, and he has grown a thick ringed collar of white fur around his neck. Thankfully that's as far as his transformation can go right now. Danny has learned to pick and choose what traits he wants.

Danny has claimed Dick's gymnastic equipment as his. The aerial equipment is now used as roosts for Danny to hang off of and nap. But that hasn't stopped him from sleeping on top of Dick like an overgrown cat.

Bat wings expel a lot of heat as blood circulates through the thin skin which cools the blood in hot environments that they are native to. So to regulate their temperature they rest together to conserve heat. That's probably why Danny decided to grow the fur collar and sleep on top of Dick.

And why is Dick so frustrated? Because he's fighting for his goddamn life in this house. His cute aggression is barely contained. He wants to squish the kid's cheeks and ruffle his hair all the time.

Dick would be going over case files while Danny watches tv on the floor and Dick will feel the insatiable NEED to go bother him.

That damn fuzzy neck fur calls to him like a cat picking up a kitten.

Danny chirps! He fucking chirps! Like a baby bird!

Dick is trying so hard to be normal but if you had an adorable and clingy batboy you'd do the same.

Dick wants to tell the world about his batboy.

And he does. When he's Nightwing he will not shut up about how much he adores his sidekick. God forbid Robin is visiting, Dick will cry while taking hundreds of pictures of them together.

Damian doesn't like Batboy at all. At least that's what he says. He's just jealous that Batboy has bat wings. Damian warms up to him after they go out gliding together and get to study his wings.

It however goes downhill when they go on a misadventure and Batboy took a bite out of Scarecrow. Batboy had an immunity to fear toxins, instead, it overstimulated him. He ended up lounging at Scarecrow when he taunted Damian as the boy was paralyzed by the gas. When Damian was able to get back on his feet he found Batboy sobbing with his mouth covered in blood.

"Im sorry. I didn't. I didn't mean to-" His wings shielded him from sight.

Scarecrow was alive but the two sets of puncture wounds on his neck and the claw marks were not doing him any favors. The bite seemed to render him immobile at least for now. A symptom of a bat bite was paralysis.

Damian notified the others. Bruce and Dick got there first. Both adults were thankful they were okay but there was a disagreement.

"Nightwing you don't even know what the boy is. He could have killed Scarecrow. We don't know what he's capable of yet. He lost control." Batman stated firmly looking at the blood-stained teen that clung to Nightwing.

"He was protecting Damian. He didn't want to do that." Nightwing pulled Batboy behind him.

"It doesn't matter what he wanted to do. What will you do if he loses control and actually kills someone next time?" Bruce crossed his arms.

"All of us are capable of losing control and killing. I did it and you never came down on me like this. You are a hypocrite. You think he's a monster because he's not human." Nightwing was not going to let Batman point a finger at his son like this. He killed Joker once and he had don it out of rage and hate, not even to protect someone else.

"What I'm saying is that he isnt human. We don't don't know how he can be affected. We don't know his weaknesses. What if someone else figures out what fear toxin does to him and turns him into a weapon? Will his guilt be enough to stop him or will it destroy him? Do you want him to become like Man-Bat? Do you want to put your son in danger?" Batman didn't give in to Nightwing's taunt and stated his view firmly.

"We're leaving." Nightwing picked up the shrinking Batboy and made his escape but not before hugging Robin goodbye.

Nightwing had to move quickly. He could feel Danny getting smaller with every step.

This happened sometimes. Danny would sometimes retreat inwards when he was stressed. He changed to become as vulnerable as he felt.

When they got home Danny looked to be just 3 years old.

"Its okay baby bat. Not one is going to hurt you. I promised remember?" Dick held the chind aginst his chest.

"I'm so sorry. It's all my fault." Danny said between gasping breaths trying not to cry. His small wings wrapped around Dick's shoulders

"No, its not. You did the right thing no matter what Batman says. I'm proud of you."Dick said stroking Danny's black-streaked white locks.

(*Does a silly jig*)

[profoundathletecowboybanana]

We don’t see Insane Nightwing enough for my tastes like:

This mf listens to NO ONE if he doesn’t want to and everyone just goes “omg what a great leader always with a better plan.”

Argues with fucking BATMAN of all people and is not a stranger to winning said arguments.

Has been kicking villain ass since 8 years old and can figure out what your great-great-great aunt twice removed was doing on April 16, 1721 and will use it as blackmail for your entire bloodline.

Probably still uses Facebook.

Would 100% wear Velcro Lightning McQueen light-up sketchers and outrun you in them only to do a quadruple backflip at the finish line as his victory dance.

He knows the exact behavior patterns and personalities of his entire team/family/coworkers and can plan their movements/reactions to near perfection in almost any circumstance. Has used this to prank them.

Learned how to cook out of spite to prove to Bruce he could live on his own (after one of the aforementioned fights. Also, after proving he could live on his own, was not immediately alerted to his little brother’s passing because Bruce has a Complex).

“Tim! Tie your shoes when you walk down the stairs you could trip and get hurt!” “You literally just got shot please worry about yourself for once??”

Has trained under Batman’s pacifistic “no killing” policy and then also fucking Deathstroke the Assassin and Mercenary. Neither one was particularly kind to his psyche

Killed the joker but imo was very justified and not insane at all. But also just sort of just… let blockbuster get killed that one time. Has also killed others

The whole vampire series??? I still haven’t read that one yet but everything I’ve heard about it has been against my will

Has had beef with multiple children (special shoutout to Jason Todd)

Somehow made peace with his family after Bruce allowed all of his other children to don the name Robin, which was given to Dick by his Very Dead mother (and of which the meaning how now been diluted and the connection to his parents severed)

Please add on to this if yall think of anymore bc I just know that man has his Moments