#Detective Comics 790

[thecruellestmonth]

Jason Todd was eleven (11) when he met Batman.

The youngest referenced age from Jason's Robin days was twelve (12) years old [sources: Detective Comics #571, Red Hood: The Lost Days #3].

Jason was a fifth grade dropout [source: Batman #410]. In the U.S., fifth graders are typically 10-11 years old. This is the lower bound of his age.

Jason's mother (Catherine) died in February, within the six months before he met Batman in Crime Alley [sources: Batman 1940 #409].

Jason met Batman in Crime Alley on the anniversary of the Wayne murders. The Wayne murders happened on 26 June (also given as September, October, or December depending on the source, but those dates wouldn't have been within six months of Catherine's death) [sources: Batman Special #1 (1984), Batman Confidential #14, The Batman Files].

Jason trained for six months before becoming Robin [source: Batman 1940 #410].

Jason's birthday is in August [source: Detective Comics #790].

Therefore, Jason was 11 when he met Batman in Crime Alley.

[momachan]

"He would have been eighteen today... Maybe if I'd put an end to his attemps. He'd be getting ready to go off to college... or just having a normal life. But he'll never have that."

Detective Comics (1937-2011) #790.

[punkeropercyjackson]

It's finally here!!!

Graphic design is my passion LMFAO but as i said i would do a while back,i've created a masterpost of all the Jason Todd content that's worth your time!This is rather long but he's existed since 1983 so!!

Base edit is my little sister @mayameanderings and tagging @coffeemilkcatz and @nanaonmars since they said yes when i asked if they wanted me to!Let's dive in then!

Batman 408-426,Detective comics 568-582,Superman annual 11,New Teen Titans 18-31,Blue Devil 19,Action comics 556 and 594,Batman Annuals 10-12 and Batman(The cult)for pre-reboot Robin!Jason my beloved

Nightwing Year One 101-106,New Teen Titans 55,Nightwing 10(1997)and Legends of the Dark Knight 100 for Dick and Jason siblinghood,Gotham Knights 34 for the short story of him and Alfred and Detective comics 790 for Bruce telling Cass about him as it takes place on Jason's birthday

Lost Days aka the Red Hood prologue

Under The Red Hood(2010)-The original comic is good in it's own right but the movie is leagues better written(Rare comic book adaption exception lmao)

Robin 177 and 182-183 for tha actual Tim and Jason beef instead of 'replacement' and 'enemy to caretaker' bs

Azreal:Death's Dark Knight 3(Can't give commentary on this one since i don't know Azreal like that,sorry)

Red Hood and The Outlaws(2016).Unlike the Utrh comic vs the Utrh movie,the original Rhato has nothing positive like the reboot

Not TECHNICALLY Jason BUT Duke is his favorite brother and Stephanie's the only Batfam girl he's truly close to so you should also stan them since he'd want you to /lh

Red Hood:Outlaw for the confirmation that Red Hood loves black women from infinity to infinityyyyy(meaning his love interest Dana Harlowe is introduced and featured as an mc in this run)

Urban Legends 1-6 for his return to the Batfam-Messy tbh but i do enjoy parts of it!

Task Force Z for him and Stephanie being a vigilante team and it has a prelude,that being Detective comics 1041-1043

Unkillables and Joker:The Man Who Stopped Laughing for Jayrose goodies and more of the above

Gotham War if you feel like turning off your brain to look at good art and laugh at dogshit writing

Red Hood:The Hill is his current run and when our queen Dana comes home from comics limbo!!!

The following is a misc list that's not required to include in your Jason knowledge but HIGHLY recommended you do just for fun!

Tiny Titans 23,29,33,39,45 and 47,Bombshells 46,60 and 62,Bombshells United 18-24,Lego Batman:Family Matters,A Death In The Family 2020,Batman:The Adventures Continue,Batman/Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 5-6,The Doom That Came to Gotham 2023 and The Teen Titans Go episode 'The Best Robin'(Pre-Reboot Robin Jason rights!!!).Also look up 'Nobody cares about Tim Drake' if you don't know what that is,you'll love it

Jason also appears in the Lego DC Super Villains games that i highly recommend as well especially because my girlfriend is a mega fan of it and i don't know much about Lego Batman 3:Beyond Gotham but please avoid the aformentioned original Rhato,Red Hood:Outlaws and the Gotham Knights game as they feature extremely problematic writing not limited to but including racialized misogyny and ableism and do disservice to Jason himself anyway so you wouldn't want to consume them to begin with if you want to like him.I have mixed feelings on the Arkham Knight and Injustice games series' but they are objectively fairly good so i wouldn't say no to giving them a shot to see if you like them

And for the finale we have Wayne Family Adventures-Definitely a good read but to be totally honest it does Duke DIRTY and it sucks so much of DC to have marketed as his series to not only not follow through at all and make it an ensemble cast instead but ALSO deprive him of his actual characterization and story to make him a demure weak black boy stereotype.I won't judge you at all for liking it if you decided to read it or have already but kindly keep this in mind and consider joining me and my mutuals in our rewrite of it to give our Signal of Hope and Chaos the writing he deserves or at least support us through likes and reblogs!Happy Jason readings and have a good day💕

[armed-with-a-waffle-iron]

The Bat Family Timeline and Ages (Post-Crisis and New Earth) with Sources

Evidence

In Batman: Year One, Bruce is said to be 25 in the January he returns to Gotham. The 1976 DC Calendar puts Bruce's birthday on the 19th of February so Bruce is 26 during his first outing as Batman in April.

Marv Wolfman's Batman: Year Three (Batman vol. 1 #436) tells us that Dick Grayson's parents die in Bruce's third year. In Batman vol. 1 #441 (also by Wolfman) Tim says that Robin started appearing around 6 months after the death of the Flying Graysons. For Dick's age when he becomes Robin, see below.

Bruce joins the Justice League before Dick forms the Teen Titans. Both these teams form before Barbara Gordon becomes Batgirl at 16 (Batgirl: Year One).

Barbara and Dick are each other's dates to their high school prom and so are less than 2 years apart in age (Detective Comics vol. 1 #871).

I suspect Dick, who was an emancipated minor, graduated high school and started college a year early, which allows Dick and Barbara to have some time as the new Dynamic Duo, as we see in Batman Family.

Dick Grayson is 18 when he forms the New Teen Titans, all of whom are also teenagers (Nightwing vol. 2 #137 by Wolfman, who also created the New Teen Titans).

Dick Grayson is 19 when he becomes Nightwing (Batman vol. 1 # 416).

21 year-old Helena becomes Huntress (Huntress: Year One #1), and interacts with Batgirl, meaning that Barbara is not yet Oracle.

Jason dies at 15, 4 months before his 16th birthday (Batman Files). This is before the New Teen Titans' third year anniversary (New Titans #71), before any of the Titans turn 22 (Deathstroke vol. 1 Annual 1), 2 years after Dick becomes Nightwing and almost 10 years before Dick's parents are killed (Batman vol. 1 #436). Dick is hence 21 during these events and 11 when he became Robin.

I also kinda like Dick being 17 years younger than Bruce because that's also the age difference between Adam West and Burt Ward from the 60s TV series.

After these events, Tim Drake becomes Robin and is 13-14 (Batman vol. 1 #441 and Robin II #1)

Soon after, Stephanie Brown is 15 when she becomes Spoiler (Secret Origins 80-Page Giant).

Stephanie is still 15 when she realises that she is pregnant (Robin vol. 2 #59) and Tim is almost 15 during this time (Secret Origins 80-Page Giant).

Cassandra Cain is 17 when she comes to Gotham during this time (Batgirl vol. 1 #1), during No Man's Land which lasts one year.

Helena’s family were killed when she was 8 and during Batman/Huntress: Cry For Blood, Tim says the murders happened roughly 15 years ago, making her roughly 23 during this storyline.

Cass turns 18 in January (Batgirl vol. 1 #39), Tim Drake turns 16 (Robin vol. 2 #116), Jason would have turned 18 in August (Detective Comics vol. 1 #790), and Stephanie is 16 when she "dies" (Batman Allies Secret Files & Origin).

Personally I'd re-arrange Tim's 16th birthday to be the last of these events four events to accommodate him still being 17 late into the Batman: Reborn, see below.

Jason soon returns to Gotham as Red Hood, not long before Infinite Crisis, 52 and One Year Later.

Following the one year time skip, Dick says it's been almost 10 years since his misadventures with Metal Eddie and Liu as a 16-17 year old (Nightwing vol. 2 #133 by Wolfman), which makes sense because he would be 25 by my math.

Stephanie returns from her time as a medical volunteer in East Africa, finishes high school and begins university during Batman: Reborn. She'd turn 19 by the end of this year by my math, which is a typical age to be begin attending university (Gotham Underground and Batgirl vol. 3 #1).

Dick calls Damian Wayne a "10 year-old" before Stephanie attends university (Batman and Robin vol. 1 #2) and Steph still calls Damian a "10 year-old" while she's in her second semester (Batgirl vol. 3 #13 and Batgirl vol. 3 #17). He might have turned 11 before the reboot.

Batwoman: Elegy (Detective Comics #858), during the Batman: Reborn year, shows that Kate was 12 when she was kidnapped and saw her mother and sister killed. This incident is also said to happen "20 years ago”, making her 32 and hence 30-31 during her first appearance in 52/One Year Later.

Tim Drake is still 17 while Steph is in her second semester of her first year at university, and it's stated that he is meant to be in his senior year at high school (Batgirl vol. 3 #13, Red Robin #17 and Red Robin #25). It's possible he turns 18 before the reboot.

Mistakes I Made

Cassandra Cain is 21 in Year Eighteen.

The "Titans disbands" in Year Thirteen was definitely a year early but it's done.

[damianbugs]

Hi!! First I just wanted to say your fics have been an inspo for me to write my own fics and I enjoy them immensely. Second, I’ve been wandering something and I want to ask something about how Jason Todd is portrayed after his death.

I don’t really understand why so many just kind of lie? Or exasperate who Jason Todd is and isn’t. Like the Cass and Bruce scene in front of Jason’s grave, or that scene in Gotham Knights where Alfred tells Bruce “Jason was determined to disobey him.” I know out of universe it just has to do with the mischaracterization of Jason but I’m having a hard time on finding an in universe explanation. Is it out of guilt? Out of misplaced love? It’s confusing me a bit

first of all, thank you!! i'm so glad i could inspire you that is truly the highest complement i could receive <3

secondly, this is a really interesting discussion! you're right about how in a meta way it's the deeply routed classism in jasons writing, as well as many writers (example: grant morrison) just really hating jason for some reason and doing everything they can to make him absolutely insufferable. not even in a cool evil villain way, but in an embarrassment point and laugh kind of way.

for the purpose of this discussion lets (with much difficulty) ignore the writers predispositions and implications and just focus entirely on what this means for the characters. it's good you mention the cass and bruce at jason's grave scene, because i think that example alone is a good way to deconstruct some of character's (for this post: bruce's) perspective of jason's death.

to summarise before dumping a billion paragraphs developing the point; let's not dance around it and accept that much of people's understanding of jason's death falls into the victim blaming variety, but in such way that the characters don't seem to realise that's how they perceive him, which is almost worse than them purposely retelling it in such a way. as well as that, aside from this indenial misunderstanding of jason, i think this shows the sort of flaws the other characters have.

Detective Comics #790

at first glance this seems like a really touching and emotional moment where bruce is sharing his grief with cass (especially when the entirety of #790 is about bruce struggling to do just that), but then you really read it and you're like what the fuck... why are we standing in front of this kids grave slagging him off? not only are we hearing all of bruce's regrets about how he raised jason as opposed to his son's actual death, but we are dragging steph into this too.

to bruce, jason's death is an accumulation of everything he let the boy get away with finally reaching it's tipping point. that jason's ambition to "prove something" lead to his seemingly inevitable demise.

now i do think it's important to note that WE (the readers) know jason died saving sheila. that despite being beaten, betrayed and left for dead, he tried to save someone and paid the price for it. no one else knows that, because the two people that did are dead. as a result, bruce is left with the facts that;

prior to his death, jason was acting uncharacteristically (<- important point) violent and aggressive towards himself, borderline passively suicidal. bruce himself acknowledges this.

that jason ran away from home in search of someone who may or may not be his mother. this is because losing his parents is a hurt jason has still not healed from and a topic bruce has handled badly in the past (example: willis todd). jason does not trust bruce enough to tell him about this.

once they find his mother, jason is instructed to not get involved in the joker related problem. to the extent of bruces knowledge, jason reveals himself as robin, and decides to get involved despite the instruction not to. either because he again, didn't trust bruce to believe he would handle it, or that jason was trying to prove something to bruce, to sheila, or to himself.

sheila dies, jason dies and bruce is the only one alive from the tragedy with only half the story.

All of this can be found in A Death In The Family, but I don't feel comfortable sharing panels of it given where the story takes place right now.

bruce spends the next few years blaming himself at any given point, but the blame is misplaced. bruce feels as though HIS negligence of JASON'S personality and HIS allowance of JASON'S freedom as robin is what allowed JASON to go and die. instead of seeing what he knows to be true about jason (his empathy, his kindness, his grief and loneliness) bruce can now only see how his allowance of all these things played a part in JASON disobeying him (whether maliciously or not) and dying.

in short, bruce is projecting big time onto his dead kid.

bruce is, as per usual, coping with loss by antagonising it. he did the same with babs, with steph and later on with damian. for a character like batman, who upon failing immediately turns these losses into lessons (for himself and all those forced to comply), it's the only way he seems to 'move on'. if he can understand that jason died because of all the things bruce let him do wrong, then he can convince himself that the guilt he feels for it is necessary. that jasons death is on him and that it mattered.

unfortunately, in order to do that, bruce is indenial about what he LITERALLY KNOWS ABOUT JASON! it's not like he was an absent father to jason in the slightest. but hey, if he can vitiate jason's enthusiasm to help people as jason's impulsiveness to fight (two things that can be true but not in accordance to the context he describes them in), then the blame is on jason for being brash, and on bruce for being lenient.

he shoots jason in the foot and himself in the knee to keep them both down. because, well, jason's dead anyway, and bruce unfortunately isn't. this is the closest thing they'll get to sharing the truth bruce knows he's missing and he knows it's his fault for favouring the mission of his son — so at the expense of jason, bruce lets them both be the lesson to learn from.

it is why jason is used as a cautionary tale, and why bruce is so unstable on allowing people (especially children) into his life emotionally. the second robin is a lesson for any young vigilante eager to join the mission, and batman's part in the death is a lesson for bruce wayne to... be even more emotionally untrustworthy? instructions unclear.

the final part of the grave scene is also important, because bruce is admitting that he is not so different to jason. that "for some of us [Bruce and Cass] there is no turning back". he is projecting these flaws about jason not only because that's the only way he can cope with jason's death, but he is projecting these flaws because regardless of what actually happened, he (and cass) are destined to meet the same fate. jason died for a multitude of reason that bruce may or may not have caused knowingly, and these reasons only exist because bruce knows them to be true in himself and anyone else damaged enough to find themselves on his side of the blurry line.

so, now looking a bit less zoomed in, i think it's unfortunate that jason's time as robin is often perversed by the people who should know better (bruce & alfred), and while it is bad writing on jason's character, it is great writing to show the flaws in the characters around him.

especially how it shows that grief is not always something that can become healed. bruce's guilt about his parents death amounts to something hopeful (batman), but his guilt about jason's death makes bruce cruel and childish.

tldr: no one knows the true story, so they compensate from what they do know — but by doing so they project and misinform existing characteristics of jason in order to compartmentalise the gravity of his tragic death. bruce is unable to cope normally and everyone is forced to follow the same fate, because batman's lessons are rarely wrong, even if they cause ten other problems and misunderstandings to understand.

[autisticredhood]

In The Dream House by Carmen Maria Machado page 5 / Batman #614 / Detective Comics #790 / In The Dream House / Detective Comics #790 / Batman #614 / In The Dream House / Batman #410 / Batman #428 / In The Dream house / Batman #617 / Detective Comics #790 / In The Dream House / Detective Comics #790 / Batman #618 / In The Dream House / Detective Comics #790 / Batman #614

ID under

[ID: Several photos weaving together text and comic panels. 

First image is of text that reads “The memoir is, at its core, an act of resurrection.”

Second image is a panel of Jason’s face on the ground in watercolor art style from Batman: Hush. He is wearing the Robin domino mask and his mouth is parted open. He is splattered with blood. A blue caption reads “Jason.”. The panel is overlaid in red. 

Third image is a cropped panel of Bruce and Cass in front of Jason’s grave. Bruce is saying “He would have been eighteen today.” 

Fourth image is of text that reads “Memoirists re-create the past, reconstruct dialogue.”

Fifth image is of Bruce and Cass surrounded by graves as Bruce is saying “But he was brash. Impulsive. Headstrong. Never looking before he leapt…I knew that, but I didn’t stop him because he wanted it so badly. He wanted too much to prove something.”

Sixth and seventh images are cropped panels from Batman: Hush with Batman in watercolor art style. The sixth image has blue captions that reads “No matter what differences we’ve had through the years, I’ve always known that Dick had a gift. Jason only had…rage.” In the seventh image the captions are “Jason never had the skills that Dick had. I should never have let him put on that costume.” 

The eighth image is text that reads “They summon meaning from events that have long been dormant.”

The ninth image is of two panels from Jason’s post-crisis Robin run in the 80s. The first panel is of Bruce’s face with the Batman cowl pulled down. He’s saying, “Hardly, the other Robin would’ve done the same thing…You two really are two of a kind.” The accompanying panel is an up close shot of Jason’s grinning face in the Robin suit. He’s saying, “Thank You, Mister Wayne. Mind if I stay up awhile and do some homework?”

The tenth image is of two panels from Death In The Family of Bruce cradling Jason’s dying mother, Sheila. In the first panel Shiela is saying with many ellipses between her words, “He turned out to be such a good kid all his problems and he still turned out good.” In the second panel she is saying, “He threw himself in front of me. He took the main brunt of the blast.”

The eleventh image is text that reads “They braid the clays of memory and essay and fact and perception together, smash them into a ball, roll them flat.”

The twelfth image is a panel from Batman: Hush that is cropped to only show a caption that reads “Jason saw being Robin as a game. It’s probably what got him killed.”

The thirteenth image are of two panels from Bruce and Cass at Jason’s grave. The first panel is a cropped shot of Bruce saying “Yes. Maybe if I’d put an end to his attempts, he’d be getting ready to go off to college…” The following panel is of Bruce and Cass standing as dark silhouettes against a red sky with the angel statue of Jason’s grave looming over them. Bruce is finishing his thought from the last panel and saying, “Or just having a normal life…”

The fourteenth image is text that reads “They manipulate time; resuscitate the dead.”

The fifteenth image is of two panels from two different comics. The first is from Batman: Hush in modern comics art style and not watercolor. It’s a cropped panel of Tim Drake in the Robin suit yelling, “No matter what he says, Jason’s death still haunts him. Why else would he keep Jason’s costume so prominently in the cave?” The second panel is a cropped image of Barbara Gordon on the BatComputer screen from the same issue of Bruce and Cass visiting Jason’s grave. She’s contacting Bruce before he goes to the graveyard, saying, “Maybe you’re busy...Look Batgirl just came by. She seemed…upset. I don’t know what happened, but…if this is about what today is, then…Just Know I’m here if you need…”  

The sixteenth image is of text that reads “They put themselves, and others, into necessary context.”

The seventeenth image is a panel of Bruce and Cass in the graveyard. Bruce is saying, “But he’ll never have that. Maybe it’s not too late for Stephanie.”

The eighteenth and final image is an edited panel from Batman: Hush in watercolor style again. It is a close up of the R symbol of the Robin suit with blood stains on it. The panel is overlaid in red again. The edit is a blue caption from the same issue that is added to above the R symbol. It reads Batman’s inner monologue of “For these reasons, I’ve carried the burden of responsibility for Jason’s death.”

End ID.]

[heroesriseandfall]

Canonical Batfamily Birthdays

Here are all the birthdates I know of that are canon somewhere in DC, with a preference for the main comics continuities. I have included exact sources and image references when possible. I am not including character introduction dates, just actual birthdays.

If you find any other sources for Batfamily birthdays, please do share!

A moment of silence for Batfamily characters who don’t have canonical birthdays yet, so far as I know. This includes Damian Wayne, Stephanie Brown, Duke Thomas, and more. :(

Summary

Source images will be further down, but here’s an overview in roughly age order (I’m not sure of Kate vs Selina’s ages) with the dates the birthdays were introduced and used:

Tim Drake: July 19th (from 2003)

Jason Todd: August 16th (from 2004)

Cassandra Cain: January 26th (from 2002)

Helena Bertinelli: February 14th (in the Batman: The Brave and the Bold universe, from 2010)

Helena Wayne: September 7th (from 1984), potentially October 20th or the 22nd of unknown month or maybe October 22 or maybe Feb 28th (all the New 52 on passports from 2011-2012). These could also be New 52 Helena Bertinelli’s birthdays or nobody’s birthdays. who even knows.

Dick Grayson: March 20th (from 1995), October ~24th ish (from 1990), November 11th (from 1976), December 1st (on Earth-16 in animated Young Justice universe, from 2012)

Barbara Gordon: September 23rd (from 1976), sometime in fall (from 1987)

Selina Kyle: March 14th (from 1976)

Kate Kane: January 26th (in Batwoman TV series from 2020), March 21st? (word-of-god by J.H. Williams III from 2012)

Bruce Wayne: October 7th (from 2021), February 19th (from 1970s various to more recently), April ~7th (from the late 1940s)

Jim Gordon: January 5th (from 1976)

Alfred Pennyworth: April 8th (from 1976), August 16th (in the Injustice: Gods Among Us universe, from 2016)

Note: in this post when I say “main comics continuity(s)/universe” I’m referring to anything that’s been a “home” continuity for the comics at some point. For example, pre-Crisis Earth-2, Earth-1/New Earth, and Earth-0/Prime Earth, as opposed to Elseworlds or DCEU earths that are still part of the broader DC multiverse but have never been the primary continuity of the comics.

Below are further details and source panels.

Details and Sources

Tim Drake

Tim has only been given one canon birthday. He turned 16 on July 19th in Robin Vol. 2 #116 (cover date Sep 2003).

Robin Vol. 2 #116 (Sep 2003)

Jason Todd

Jason turned 18 on August 16th in Detective Comics #790 (March 2004). This is his only canon birthday.

Detective Comics #790 (Mar 2004)

In post-Crisis/preboot (1986-2011) continuity, there was a gap of six months between when Jason died and when he was resurrected (Batman Annual 25). Jason died April 27th according to his death certificates in Batman Annual 25 and Batman Files 2011, so he would’ve resurrected near late October.

Batman Annual 25 (May 2006)

So, it could be that post-resurrection Jason is biologically 6 months younger than he chronologically should be. But honestly, do we even really know what multiverse-breaking resurrection punches and then a Lazarus Pit on top of that do to someone’s body??? Either way it’s just much more simple to just use his chronological age.

Cassandra Cain

Much like Tim and Jason, Cass has only ever been given one birthdate: January 26th from Batgirl Vol. 1 #33. With that birthday, she turned 18 in Batgirl Vol. 1 #37.

Batgirl Vol. 1 #33 (Dec 2002)

When Jan 26th actually comes, Bruce suggests David Cain could’ve lied about it, but Cass denies that idea and continues to treat the day as her birthday.

Batgirl Vol. 1 #37 (Apr 2003)

Why it's likely her real birthday: Bruce initially believes Cain must’ve lied because he doesn’t think Cain could’ve known her birthday. However, we later learn Cain had lied about her origins and was actually her biological father. Batgirl v1 #62 and #73 show he was there for her birth and could absolutely know the date.

On top of that, in Batgirl #37 Cass remembers celebrating her birthday with him as a child, so he did seem to actually keep track of it. I honestly don’t see any reason to believe he’d lie (Bruce is just a jealous spoilsport).

Helena Bertinelli + Wayne

I’m combining them here because the New 52 gives me a headache.

Helena Bertinelli celebrated her birthday on February 14th in a spin-off comic from the animated Batman: The Brave and the Bold series. This is obviously not part of regular comics continuity and the characters differ from the usual comics in many ways. And yet, for reasons that will soon be clear, it’s my favorite for actually being about Helena Bertinelli the Huntress and for not being an utter mess.

Batman: The Brave and the Bold #14 (Apr 2010)

In a character profile at the end of Infinity Inc. #7 (Oct 1984), Helena Wayne’s birthday was September 7th, 1959. Calculating back from October 1984, that would make her 25 at the time.

During the New 52, Helena Bertinelli was initially portrayed as a long-dead (secretly alive but don’t worry about it) mobster’s daughter and replaced by Earth-2’s Helena Wayne who got stranded on Prime Earth. This H. Wayne stole H. Bertinelli’s identity in the form of several forged passports and IDs, which had hints toward birthdates. The question is, can we take any of those birthdates seriously, and if so, which birthdates and for which character? (Cue my headache.)

Skip ahead to Dick if overthinking fake passports sounds boring.

When comparing to a real Italian passport, the date on H. Wayne’s fake Italian passport appears to be a birthdate. Note that the fake name is Carol Bertinelli, not Helena. H. Wayne said her IDs were inspired by H. Bertinelli but clearly she’s taking liberties for the IDs so that’s a point toward these being useless for H. Bertinelli birthdays.

Huntress Vol. 3 #1 (Dec 2011)

I don’t recognize the month abbreviation as a real abbreviation, but from the visible letter O I’m going to assume it means October. If it is, then the date is 20 October 1985. Sidenote: a 1985 birthdate during 2011 could put her age at about 26, which is actually quite close to how old she could’ve been based on pre-Flashpoint! 1985 has been given as Helena Wayne’s death year before, so it’s an interesting choice of a birth year for her. (Thanks to DC’s sliding timescale, though, birth years don’t actually mean anything in the comics.)

They don’t show her complete US passport, but I can see a “22” in line where the day of the month should be for her birthdate. This already contradicts the previous passport. This one uses Helena Bertinelli’s actual name, though–does that make it more relevant than the Carol one or this all still ridiculous because of the discrepancies?

Worlds’ Finest Vol. 1 #1 (Jul 2012)

We can try to glean the US passport birth month from the passport number at the bottom. The first two digits (“12” here) indicate the agency that issued the passport. 12 means the Honolulu agency. Right after “USA” is supposed to be the birthdate plus an extra number, in the order of year/month/day with the year being the last two digits of a year. Here we encounter another problem. It says 810228. This would imply her birthdate is 1981/02/28. That’s February 28, 1981. Since the earlier line indicated her birthday fell on a 22nd, this already contradicts itself.

Interpreting a Machine Readable Zone (MZR) on a Machine Readable Travel Document (MRTD)

However, I’d bet comic writers and artists aren’t always well versed in passport numbers (it’s already a stretch for me to bother checking it…). If they put the extra digit before the birthdate instead after, and the date is formatted month/day/year (the most common format in American English, so probably their first instinct), then we can drop the first 8 and it’s 10/22/8[?] with the last digit unknown. This would put her birthday as October 22, sometime in the 1980s. The 22 matches the earlier line, the October might match the previous passport if that really did say October (but contradicts the 20th), and the 1980s year could be 1985 to match the Italian passport.

At the end of the day I’m personally just going to let Helena Bertinelli be a Valentine’s born baby and call it a day, unless/until she gets a better one in the comics. For Helena Wayne I’d easily pick September 7th.

(My question is: did they give the crossbow vigilante a Valentine’s birthday as a Cupid joke??)

Dick Grayson

Dick has probably had the most birthdays of everyone (unless Bruce has more I don’t know about). All of them have their drawbacks.

In a main comics continuity, his most popular and most recent is “the first day of spring” so probably March 20th. This comes from Robin Annual 4 when his mom says she calls him Robin because he was born on the first day of spring. That presents some problems since there are other explanations given for the origin of “Robin,” including that his mom said he was “always bobbin’ along” (Dark Victory #12, page 17) or the original inspiration of Robin Hood (Detective Comics #38, p3).

Robin Annual 4 (Jun 1995)

Before that, in Secret Origins Vol. 2 #50 (Aug 1990), Marv Wolfman wrote a version of Dick’s origins where Dick turned 10 a week before his parents died on Halloween. That would make his birthday October ~24th (presuming that “a week” before Halloween literally means 7 days here).

Secret Origins Vol. 2 #50 (Aug 1990)

The first drawback of the October birthday is that it’s tied to Dick being 10 when his parents die on Halloween. Dick’s age and the date his parents die change a lot depending on the writer (Nightwing Vol. 1 #1 says his parents died June 27th, Dark Victory #8-9 says May, etc.). The second drawback is that few people remember this version of his birthday even exists.

Dick’s birthday is November 11th in Super DC Calendar 1976. Note: Despite being a non-diegetic calendar from almost 50 years ago, this source remains well known and used among comic enthusiasts (including those working at DC). Generally, I would say it should mainly apply just to pre-Crisis continuity, but it is also useful for characters that haven’t gotten updated birthdays ever since (like Roy Harper, Barbara Gordon, or Selina Kyle, for example).

Super DC Calendar 1976

Sidenote: Since Damian doesn’t have a canon birthday, November 11th is favorite to steal for my own fan canon Damian birthday. Dick has plenty birthdays to share and I think it’s cute. @ DC, give Damian and Steph birthdays, they’ve been birthday-less for decades!

Indeed, DC writer Tim Sheridan and editor Mike Cotton debated whether Dick’s birthday was in March or November. They favored March 20th and wrote a birthday scene in Teen Titans Academy #1 (published March 23rd, 2021). The publishing time near Dick’s birthday was intentional, though the date isn’t mentioned within the comic itself.

Link to tweet

The above birthdays were all meant to apply to a main comics continuity at some point. However, Earth-16, better known as the animated Young Justice universe (therefore outside of main comics continuity), says YJ Dick’s birthday is December 1st.

Young Justice Vol. 2 #20 (Nov 2012)

Unlike Helena Bertinelli, Dick has plenty of comics birthdays to choose from, so personally I’ll only count Dec 1st as being the birthday for YJ animated/Earth-16 Dick Grayson until or unless it’s ever mentioned to apply to main comics continuity.

Barbara Gordon

Super DC Calendar 1976 says Barbara’s birthday is September 23rd.

Super DC Calendar 1976

Since then, the only time I recall her birthdate hinted at is in Secret Origins #20 when her adoptive mom says her birthday is in the fall. This could support her birthday being September 23rd.

Secret Origins Vol. 2 #20 (Nov 1987)

Although she has celebrated her birthday on panel since then (the end of Nightwing Vol. 2 #153), she hasn’t been given any other actual birthdate. So I’ll keep September 23rd and call it a day.

Selina Kyle

Super DC Calendar 1976 says Selina’s birthday is March 14th. Once again, although it hasn’t been mentioned within a comic, it’s stuck around in popular consciousness (see: Catwoman actress Zoë Kravitz wishing Selina a happy birthday on March 14th).

Super DC Calendar 1976

Selina celebrated a birthday on panel in Catwoman (2002) #37 but the date was never mentioned. I don’t know of any other reference to her birthday, but my reading of Selina is thus far more sparse than my reading of the others.

Kate Kane

Kate’s birthday options all come from outside of the comics themselves.

In “An Un-Birthday Present,” season 1 episode 11 of Batwoman, a parallel version of her twin Beth had a driver’s license showing her date of birth as January 26, 1990. She and Kate later celebrated their birthdays on an episode aired Jan 26th, 2020. I don’t keep up with live action DC shows so I unfortunately can’t offer a screenshot (if anyone has one or the timestamp, please let me know!).

(I kinda wonder if somebody looked up Batwoman’s birthday for these episodes, saw Batgirl’s (Cass’s) birthday, and just ran with it. Batwoman and a Batgirl sharing a birthday is just. Ughhh.)

In 2012, one of her comic writers tweeted to choose a random date for her birthday and picked March 21st, which so far as I know has never been used as her birthday in comics.

Link to tweet

Bruce Wayne

Bruce’s most popular birthday is February 19th, but his most recent one is October 7th from the digital-only comic Legends of the Dark Knight. I believe that’s the only time October 7th has been referenced, but I’ve heard the animated show The Batman said his birthday was in October (can’t confirm, haven’t watched it recently).

Legends of the Dark Knight #10 (Jun 2021) - Note: two pages have been combined into one for this post

Still, even associates of DC seem to remember his February 19th birthday better. In February 2023, Warner Bro’s Gotham Knights game did a sale for Bruce’s birthday. I’ve also heard the birthday was used in the Gotham TV show, but again, I don’t watch much live action DC shows.

The February 19th birthday appears to come from the 70s and 80s. It’s his birthday in the Super DC Calendar 1976, and in Batman Family Vol. 1 #11: “Suprise, Suprise!” (May 1977). Bob Rozakis (known as DC’s “Answer Man”) said Feb 19th was Bruce’s birthday in the letter column of Detective Comics #494 (Sep 1980).

Letter column of Detective Comics #494 (Sep 1980)

Batman Family Vol. 1 #11: “Suprise, Suprise!” (Jun 1977)

Super DC Calendar 1976

Way back in the 40s, his birthday was in April, possibly April 7th. During a birthstone murder mystery, Bruce says his birthstone is a diamond, which is traditionally the April birthstone.

World’s Finest Comics #33/6 (Mar-Apr 1948): “The 5 Jewels of Doom!”

Star Spangled Comics #91 (Apr 1949) might imply the exact date was April 7th but we’d have to assume the party is on his birthday and that “this month” refers to the publishing month of April. I believe this is where people get the April 7th birthday when they bring it up.

Star Spangled Comics #91 (Apr 1949)

Early April also shines in Batman: Year One where it shows Bruce’s first night out as Batman being either the night of April 6th or the early morning of April 7th (Batman #405). So although the April Bruce birthday hasn’t been used in decades, it’s still a Batman birthday in a way.

I have also heard people say Frank Miller considered Bruce’s birthday to be in November. However, I have yet to find an original source of him saying that, and honestly (just like the “March 21st” birthday for Kate) if he never used it in any canon material I don’t put much weight in that.

Jim Gordon

The only birthday I’ve ever seen for Jim is January 5th from Super DC Calendar 1976.

Super DC Calendar 1976

Alfred Pennyworth

Alfred’s birthday in Super DC Calendar 1976 is April 8th.

Super DC Calendar 1976

In the Injustice: Gods Among Us universe (an alternate reality where the video game of the same name is set in), they show Alfred’s birth certificate, where it says his birthday is August 16th, 1943.

Injustice: Gods Among Us Year Five #26 (Jun 2016)

Maybe you’ll notice that August 16th is Jason’s birthday. A little funny considering the issue features Alfred refusing to share his birthday only for us to learn it’s the same date as Jason’s. Still, annoying. There are so many days in the year! Stop choosing the same ones!

This Alfred birthdate runs into a similar problem Helena’s birthdates did: it’s not part of main comics canon, it’s an alternate universe, so it may not be applicable to the main comics universe.

Note: if we calculate that 1943 birth year from Jun 2016 when the comic was published, that’d make Alfred 72 soon to be 73. Does that mean anything in canon? Probably not, but oh well. Also...token British character born by Windsor Castle? …of course.

Personally, I would rather go with the April 8th birthday than the Injustice one, since Injustice is an alternate universe. Also, outside of the humor of it, the idea of Alfred and Jason sharing a birthday is a bit too much for me. Still, it’s up to people’s own cherry picking.

Chronology

The birthdays in publishing order alongside notable reboots. A soft-reboot refers to reboots that only changed a few details with minor consequences, keeping the overall continuity mostly intact. A major reboot has significant effects on continuity (too many to list).

1935-1986: Pre-Crisis era (Golden Age begins ~1946, Silver Age runs from late 50s--early 70s)

Mar-Apr 1948: Bruce’s birthday is in April

Apr 1949: Bruce has a birthday party on the 7th of “this month”

Skipping a good three decades because I barely even know what’s in there. Sorry lol

Mid 70s to early 90s: Bronze Age era

1976: the super dc calendar says Bruce’s birthday is February 19th, Alfred’s is April 8th, Dick’s is November 11th, Babs is September 23rd, Selina’s is March 14th, Jim’s is Jan 5th

Jun 1977: Bruce celebrates his birthday on February 19th

Sep 1980: letter collumnist says Bruce’s birthday is February 19th

Oct 1984: Helena Wayne’s birthday is on September 7th, 1959

Mar 1986: the major Crisis on Infinite Earths reboot (begins post-Crisis/New Earth era, many previous comics are now considered Earth-2 instead)

Nov 1987: Babs birthday is in fall

Aug 1990: Dick turns 10 a week before Halloween (probably October ~24th)

Sep 1994: Zero Hour soft reboot (Batman and Robin become urban legends so Robin is not allowed on video, Bruce’s parents’ murderer is changed to unknown instead of Joe Chill, Selina is no longer a once-prostitute)

Apr 1995: Dick’s birthday is the first day of spring (probably March 20th)

Oct 2002: Cass learns her birthday is January 26th

April 2003: Cass turns 18 on January 26th

Sep 2003: Tim turns 16 on July 19th

Mar 2004: Jason turns 18 on August 16th

Jun 2006: Infinite Crisis soft reboot (Joe Chill is restored as the arrested Wayne family murderer, Superboy-Prime's punch retroactively resurrects Jason)

Apr 2010: In the Batman: Brave and the Bold universe, Helena Bertinelli celebrates her birthday February 14th

Oct 2011: the major Flashpoint reboot (end of post-Crisis/preboot, begins the New 52 and changes the primary universe to Prime Earth; significant character/timeline changes and erasures)

Dec 2011: Helena Wayne’s fake Carol Bertinelli passport seems to list October 20th as a birthdate

Jul 2012: Helena Wayne’s fake Helena Bertinelli passport lists some 22nd unknown month, Oct 22nd, or Feb 28th birthday

Sep 2012: Batwoman writer J.H. Williams III randomly picks Kate’s birthday as March 21st on Twitter

Nov 2012: Earth-16/YJ animated Dick Grayson celebrates his birthday on December 1st

Jun 2016: In the Injustice: Gods Among Us universe, Alfred’s birth certificate says his birthday is August 16th

Jul 2016: Rebirth reboot (restores some pre-Flashpoint continuity, some characters regain previous histories but now semi-synchronized with the New 52 era)

Jan 2020: Batwoman TV show Kate celebrates her birthday on January 26th

Mar 2021: Writer Tim Sheridan says he & his editor chose March 20th as Dick’s birthday, between the March or November birthdays

May 2021: Infinite Frontier holds all previous continuities as potential canon, restoring more of pre-Flashpoint

Jun 2021: Bruce says his birthday is October 7th in a digital-only comic

Feb 2023: Gotham Knights game has a sale for Bruce’s birthday

[cazzam]

THE NEW AND IMPROVED CASSANDRA CAIN READING GUIDE

Cassandra Cain is the daughter of assassins David Cain and Sandra Wu-San (better known as Lady Shiva), and was raised by Cain. She is an expert hand-to-hand combatant, and able to read body language to the point of interpreting complex thoughts, but learning to communicate better through speech and text. She has operated as a vigilante under the names of Batgirl, Kasumi, Black Bat, and Orphan, and is currently sharing the title of Batgirl with Stephanie Brown and Barbara Gordon.

Basic Reading

Batgirl (2000)

Batman: Gates of Gotham (2011)

Detective Comics (2016) #934-987

Batman and the Outsiders (2019)

Batgirls (2021)

Spirit World (2023)

Birds of Prey (2023)

Cassandra's major appearances are listed in chronological order (mostly) under the cut. My favorites are bolded.

No Man's Land

All issues collected in Batman: No Man's Land (2011) vol. 2-4. I recommend reading the entire event.

Batman (1940) #567 [first appearance]

Detective Comics (1937) #734

Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #120 [Cassandra takes up Batgirl mantle]

Azrael: Agent of the Bat #56-57

Batman (1940) #569

The Batman Chronicles #18

Azrael: Agent of the Bat #60-61

Robin (1993) #73

As Batgirl

Issues that are part of events may be confusing out of context.

Batman: Gotham Knights #2, 5

Batman: Gotham City Secret Files and Origins [first story]

Batgirl (2000) #1-2

Young Justice (1998) #21

Batgirl (2000) #3-11, 12 [Officer Down start]

Birds of Prey (1999) #27

Catwoman (1993) #90 [Officer Down end]

Batgirl (2000) Annual #1, #13-19

Harley Quinn (2000) #10

Robin (1993) #88 [first meeting with Stephanie Brown]

Batgirl (2000) #20, 21 [Joker: Last Laugh start]

Joker: Last Laugh #3

Supergirl (1996) #63 [transphobia cw, Joker: Last Laugh end]

DC First: Batgirl/Joker

Batgirl (2000) #22-23, 24 [Bruce Wayne: Murderer? / Fugitive start]

Robin (1993) #98

Batgirl (2000) #25-29

Batman (1940) #605 [Bruce Wayne: Murderer? / Fugitive end]

Batgirl: Secret Files and Origins

Batgirl (2000) #30-32

Batman: Gotham Knights #33, 35

Batgirl (2000) #33-38

Batman: Family #7

Detective Comics (1937) #782 [backup], 790

Nightwing (1996) #81

Superboy (1994) #85 [first meeting with Kon-El/Conner Kent]

Batgirl (2000) #39-44

Batman: Gotham Knights #42, 45-46, 48-49

Robin (1993) #119

Batgirl (2000) #45-47

Superman/Batman #5

Batgirl (2000) #48-50

Birds of Prey (1999) #61, 63

Batgirl (2000) #51-53

Solo #10 [third story]

Detective Comics (1937) #796 [backup]

Robin (1993) #127-128

Batgirl (2000) #54

War Games

All issues collected in Batman: War Games (2015). I don't recommend reading the entire event.

Detective Comics (1937) #797

Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #182

Nightwing (1996) #96

Batgirl (2000) #55

Batman (1940) #631

Batgirl (2000) #56

Nightwing (1996) #98

Batgirl (2000) #57

Batgirl in Bludhaven

Robin (1993) #132 [Fresh Blood start]

Batgirl (2000) #58

Robin (1993) #133

Batgirl (2000) #59 [Fresh Blood end]

Batman Allies: Secret Files and Origins 2005 [third story]

Batgirl (2000) #60-73

With the League of Assassins and Deathstroke

I don't recommend reading anything in this section except Batgirl (2008) #6.

Robin (1993) #148-151, 161-162

Supergirl (2005) #14

World War III #2

Teen Titans (2003) #43-46

Batman and the Outsiders (2007)

Batgirl (2008) [recap of this era. Bruce adopts Cassandra]

As Black Bat

Battle for the Cowl: The Network

Batgirl (2009) #1 [Cassandra gives Batgirl mantle to Stephanie]

Red Robin #17

Batman Incorporated (2011) #6

Red Robin #25

Batman: Gates of Gotham

As Orphan

The New 52 reboot changed Cassandra’s origins, personality, and relationships with other characters. Rebirth was a soft reboot that kept New 52 canon but brought back elements from the previous continuity.

Batman and Robin Eternal #1-9, 11-14, 17-26 [New 52]

Detective Comics (2016) #934-940 [Rebirth]

Batman (2016) #7 [Night of the Monster Men start]

Nightwing (2016) #5

Detective Comics (2016) #941

Batman (2016) #8

Nightwing (2016) #6

Detective Comics (2016) #942 [Night of the Monster Men end], 943-962

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016) #15

Detective Comics (2016) #963-964

Batgirl and the Birds of Prey #15-17

Detective Comics (2016) #965-981, 983-987

Batman and the Outsiders (2019)

DC: The Doomed and the Damned [seventh story]

Batman: The Joker War Zone [second story]

Batman (2016) #104

Return of Batgirl

The Infinite Frontier reboot considers all past continuities canon.

Infinite Frontier #0

Batman Secret Files: The Signal

Batman: Urban Legends #3, 5, 7, 8, 10, 14

The Joker (2021) #3-4, 7, 11-12, 15

Detective Comics (2016) #1038 [backup], 1049, 1052, 1057

Batman (2016) #112 [main], 115-116 [backups]

Nightwing (2016) #85-86

Batman (2016) #117 [backup]

Batgirls #1-6

Task Force Z #8

DC Pride: Tim Drake Special

Robin (2021) #15

Detective Comics (2016) #1061

Batgirls #7

Catwoman (2018) #45

Batgirls #8-12

Batman One Bad Day: Two-Face

Tim Drake: Robin #4

Batgirls Annual 2022, #13-19

Lazarus Planet: Dark Fate [fourth story]

Spirit World (2023)

Birds of Prey (2023) #1- [ongoing]

Detective Comics (2016) #1084 [backup]

Other Appearances

Ghost/Batgirl [Dark Horse Comics crossover]

Batman: Outlaws #2

Batman: City of Light [not recommended]

Justice League Elite [as Kasumi]

Wonder Woman (2006) #600 [second story]

Batgirl (2016) #50 [third story]

DC Festival of Heroes [first story]

Truth & Justice #6 [#16-18 digital first]

Alternate Universes

Tiny Titans #33, 39, 43, 45

Batgirl: Futures End

Convergence: Batgirl

Harley Quinn and the Birds of Prey (2020)

DCeased: Unkillables / Dead Planet #5 / War of the Undead Gods

Shadow of the Batgirl [YA graphic novel]

Dark Knights: Death Metal Robin King [backup]

Future State: The Next Batman #2, 4 [second stories]

Batman: Wayne Family Adventures [webtoon]

DC vs. Vampires

Dark Knights of Steel #9

Thanks for reading! If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Last updated: April 23, 2024

[doraambrose]

I've seen quite a bit if fics or oneshots that are pretty good, but there's one tiny detail that has started to bug me a tiny bit and that's this :jason Todd's favorite color is not red just because he's red hood.

He took up the red hood mantel as kind of a "fuck you" type of thing. Canonically, his favorite color is green, and I wish people used that more. Proof: detective comics 790:

And I know this is a stupid thing to point out, but sometimes I feel like the little details are what makes a character really good and thus, an issue (or fic, etc) even better.

[tiredofsatansbullshit]

Jason Todd Reading List

Pre-Crisis Robin

(this includes his origin, how he becomes Robin, and what happens to this version of Jason in the Pre-Crisis Timeline)

Batman #357-399 (1983-1986)

Detective Comics #524-567 (1983-1986)

Batman #400-403 (1986-1987)

Crisis on Infinite Earths #5, #9, #11-12 (1985-1986)

Post Crisis Robin

(includes his origin, how he becomes Robin and his death - i tried to have this chronologically according to when these events take place so that means the publishing order is a bit weird)

Nightwing #103-106 - Collected as Nightwing: Year One

Batman #402-403, #408-425, #430-431

Batman Annual #10-12

Tales of the Teen Titans #86-91

Legends

Detective Comics #575-578

Batman: Full Circle

Superman Annual #11 (1985)

Blue Devil #19 (1986)

New Teen Titans #18-31 (1986-1987)

Action Comics #556, #594

Batman: The Cult

Batman: A Death in the Family

Post Death Mentions

(includes any mentions, memories or appearances of Jason's "ghost" after his death. honestly, you don't need to read these to follow along for Jason's storyline but they show how those who cared about him dealt with his death.)

Batman #432-435, #496 (1987-1993)

Detective Comics #606, #609 (1989)

Underworld Unleashed #2 (1995)

Batman/Demon (1996)

Nightwing #10 (1997)

Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #100 (1997)

Nightwing: Secret Files and Origins (1999)

Jokers Last Laugh (2001)

Joker: Last Laugh Secret Files and Origins (2001)

Deadman: Dead Again (2001)

Batman: Gotham Knights 16, #34, #43-45 (2001-2003)

JLA Avengers #2 (2003)

Batman: Gotham Country line (2005)

Detective Comics #790 (2004)

Batman #620-630 (2004)

Red Hood

Red Hood: The Lost Days - This is before Jason returns to Gotham as the Red Hood. It shows a bit of what he did after coming back to life

Hush/Batman #608-619 (2002-2003)

Batman: Under the Red Hood

Teen Titans V2 #29

Nightwing V2 #118-124 - collected in - Nightwing: Brothers in Blood

Outsiders V3 #44-46

Outsiders V3 Annual 1

Green Arrow V3 #69-72

Countdown to Final Crisis: Countdown to Final Crisis #51 (2007) Teen Titans #47 (2007) Countdown to Final Crisis #50-33 (2007) All New Atom #13-15 (2007) Countdown to Final Crisis #31-1 (2007-2008)

Battle for the Cowl: Robin #177, #182-183 (2008-2009) Azrael: Deaths Dark Knight #3 (2009) Batman: Battle for the Cowl (2009) Batman and Robin #3-6, #23-25 (2009-2011)

New 52 Red Hood

Batman #0

Secret Origins #5

Red Hood and The Outlaws V1 #1-14 (2011-2015)

DC Universe Presents #17 (2015)

Batman: Death of the Family: Batman #13-15 Red Hood and The Outlaws #15 Teen Titans #15 Batman #16 Red Hood and The Outlaws #16 Teen Titans #16 Batman #17

Red Hood and The Outlaws #17 (2013)

Batman and Robin #10-12, #17 (2012-2013)

Batman Inc (2012-2013)

Red Hood and The Outlaws #18 (2013)

Justice League #19 (2013)

Batman and Robin #20 (2013)

Supergirl #35 (2014)

Batman/Superman Annual 1 (2014)

Action Comics #34 (2014)

Action Comics Annual 3 (2014)

Batman and Robin #33-37 (2014-2015)

Red Hood and The Outlaws #19 (2013)

Red Hood and The Outlaws Annual 1 (2013)

Red Hood and The Outlaws #20-40 (2013-2015)

Batman Eternal #10-12,#15 ,#18-20 ,#25 ,#26 ,#28 (2014-2015)

Grayson #12 (2015)

Deathstroke V3 #15-16 (2014)

Batman/Superman #25-27 (2014)

Red Hood/Arsenal #1-6 (2015)

Batman and Robin Eternal (2015-2016)

Robin War: Robin War #1 (2015) Grayson #15 (2015) Detective Comics #47 (2015) Red Hood/Arsenal #7 (2015) We are Robin #7 (2015) Robin: Son of Batman #7 (2015) Robin War #6 (2016)

Red Hood/Arsenal #8-13 (2015-2016)

Rebirth Red Hood

(current continuity)

Red Hood and The Outlaws V2 #1-6

Batman #16

Nightwing #15 (2017)

Trinity Annual 1

Trinity #12-15 (2017) - This and Trinity Annual 1 is also known as Dark Destiny Arc

Red Hood and The Outlaws #7-18

Red Hood and The Outlaws Annual 1

Batman #33 (2017)

Detective Comics #967-968 (2017)

New Talent Showcase (2017)

Batman and The Signal #1, #3 (2018)

Batman: Prelude to the Wedding: Red Hood vs Anarky

Red Hood and The Outlaws #26-31

Red Hood and The Outlaws Annual 2

Teen Titans #22 (2018)

Teen Titans Annual 1 (2019)

Red Hood: Outlaw #31-36 - Continuing on from the Red Hood and The Outlaws comics but Jason is on his own now.

Red Hood: Outlaw Annual 3

Event Leviathan #2-3 (2019)

Harley Quinn: Villain of the Year (2019)

Red Hood: Outlaw #37-47

Batman: Alfred R.I.P #1 (2020)

Robin 80th Anniversary (2020)

Joker War: Nightwing #72 (2020) Red Hood: Outlaw #49 (2020) Batman #100 (2020)

Detective Comics #1030-1033 (2020)

Teen Titans #45 (2020)

Red Hood: Outlaw #50-52 (2020)

Batman: Urban Legends #1-6

Truth & Justice #10-12

Batman Secret Files: Clownhunter #1

Robin #5 (2021)

Nightwing Annual 1

Detective Comics #1041-1043, #1052, #1057

Task Force Z #1-12 (2021-2022)

The Joker: The Man Who Stopped Laughing #2-10 (2022-2023) - This is still ongoing, I will update when new issues that Jason appears in is published - in 6 and 7 Jason is only there for a few panels

Batman: Legends of Gotham (2023)

Lazarus Planet: Next Evolution (2023)

Batman 136 (2023)

Knight Terrors: Robin (2023)

Gotham War: ongoing

Batman/Catwoman: The Gotham War: Prelude [2023] Batman/Catwoman: The Gotham War: Battle lines[2023] Catwoman 57 [2023] Batman/Catwoman: The Gotham War: Red Hood #1 [2023] Batman 138 [2023] Batman/Catwoman: The Gotham War:Red Hood #2 [2023] Batman/Catwoman: The Gotham War: Scorched Earth - releasing 31/10/23

Nightwing 107 [2023]

Future State

(I'll be honest, I don't understand Future State vs current continuity so I can't explain much for this but it's a possible future timeline I think. Jason is undercover as a cop in this btw)

Dark Detective

Future State: Gotham #1-18

Alternate Universes

(can chose what among these you want to read. none of this affects the current continuity)

Batwoman #6 (2017)

- In this comic, Batwoman travels to an alternate universe where we see a Jason Todd who was never taken in by Bruce Wayne and ends up becoming a priest

DC Universe Legacies #5,6

Batman The Brave and the bold #13 (2012)

Li’l Gotham #2, #10, #12, #17, #20, #21, #24 (2012-2013)

- This comic is adorable

Tiny Titans #23, #29, #33, #39, #45, #47 (2010-2012)

- This comic is also adorable

Convergence: Batman and Robin (2015)

Arkhamverse: (these tie in with the Batman: Arkham Knight video game)

Arkham Knight: Genesis

Batman: Arkham Knight - the game picks up right after the end of this comic

DC Comics’ Bombshells #46, #60, #62 (2015-2016)

Bombshells United #18-24 (2018)

The Dark Knight Returns: The Last Crusade #1 (2016)

Injustice: (these tie in with the Injustice video games)

Injustice - Gods Among Us: Year Five #38 (2016)

Injustice 2 #2-3, #5-7, #13, #18-20, #46-49 (2017-2018)

Injustice Vs. The Masters Of The Universe (2018)

Beware the Batman #11 (2014)

Batman: White Knight #7 (2018)

Mother Panic: Gotham A.D #2-6 (2018)

Batman Beyond #25 (2018)

Batman/Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III #5-6 (2019)

Titans Giant #1-4 (2020)

DCEASED: Unkillables (2020)

DCEASED: Dead Planet #2-5 (2020)

Batman the Adventure Continues (2020)

Batman: Three Jokers #1-3 (2020)

Suicide Squad: Get Joker! #1-3 (2021)

Titans United (2021)

- This was to promote the Titans HBO show (even though it does not tie with the show)

DC's Round Robin - Robins (2021)

DC vs Vampires

Dark Knights of Steel: (Ongoing, I will update as they are posted. Medieval AU, the Robins are all younger and met each other before they met Bruce)

Dark Knights of Steel: Tales from the Three Kingdoms

Dark Knights of Steel #1

Batman vs Robin (2022)

- Some more honesty, I haven't got a clue as to what this fits in with so I can't help much with this but I do know that it will be 5 issues, finishing in 2023

Batman - Beyond The White Knight #1, #4-8 (2022) (ongoing)

Batman White Knight Presents: Red Hood #1-2 (2022)

Batman: Wayne Family Adventures (Ongoing series on Webtoon.)

Red Hood: Outlaws (Ongoing series on Webtoon)

Batman: The Brave and the Bold #1, #4 (2023) - at the end we get to see an alternate universe where young Jason and Dick are brothers and first meet Bruce

Other Media

TV Shows

Batman: The Brave and The Bold, Season 2 Episode 19 - In this universe, Dick Grayson is the only Robin but in S2 E19, "Emperor Joker" features a scene in Bat-Mite's extra-dimensional museum where Bat-Mite has a statue depicting Jason's death. Bat-Mite then breaks the fourth wall and tells Batman that readers voted for Jason to die.

Young Justice - S2 E8, S2 E9, S2 E20, S4 E19 an image of Jason as Robin is seen with other memorials for heros. - Jason is also thought to be the Red Hooded Ninja who appears in S3 E6, S4 E5, S4 E8

Titans - Seasons 1 and 2 with a short cameo in season 3 of the HBO show

Movies

Batman: Under the Red Hood - Animated movie that changes the storyline of Jason's death, resurrection and return to Gotham

Batman: Death in the Family (2020) - This is an interactive film involving the events of Batman: Death in the Family comics.

Lego DC Batman: Family Matters (2019)

Video Games

Batman: Arkham Knight - Arkham Knight: Genesis and Batman: Arkham Knight comics are set before the events of this game.

Injustice: (these tie in with the Injustice comics listed above under Alternate Universes) Injustice: Gods Among us (mentioned) Injustice 2

Gotham Knights - The Batfamily (Dick, Barbara, Jason and Tim) protecting Gotham, as well as dealing with the death of Batman. This was very recently released and I haven't played it so I can't tell you much.

I just want to add the following: I cannot guarantee that this is 100% accurate or up to date. I will do my best to update when we get new Jason content. I have not had any help with this and got the information from multiple other sources. Because I've had no help, no one has proof checked this so there might be some errors.

If you notice any errors or know of anything I've missed please let me know and I will fix the error as soon as I can!

Last Updated: 25 October 2023

[fantastic-nonsense]

If you don’t mind me asking, one question I have that you might be able to answer (seeing as your pretty much the Cass expert around here) - how often has her age relative to the rest of the batkids been brought up in canon?

I’m just curious because every now and then I see it mentioned that she’s around the same age if not slightly older than Jason, which always sort of throws me off a little given how she’s more often paired with Tim and Steph. I guess I’m just curious if you know whether or not this was just something mentioned once and then forgotten about or whether or not this has been a more consistent part of her character.

You're actually insanely lucky you asked me this question tonight, because I had a twitter conversation that prompted me to go hunt down relevant panels and information about this very thing about a month ago. tl;dr: post-Crisis!Cass is the second-eldest Wayne kid and generally written as such; she's consistently two and a half years older than Tim, at least a year older than Steph, and seven months older than Jason legally (and one year older biologically, since Jason was dead for around six months). The only Batkid older than her is Dick.

Canonically, the age gaps between the (pre-reboot) Batfam look something like this:

Depending on which age retcon you prefer (post-Zero Hour or post-Batgirl: Year One), Barbara is either 6-7 years older than Dick or 3-4 years older.

Dick and Jason are approximately 6-7 years apart. Dick is 18-19 when Jason is adopted at 12 and thus 21-ish three years later when Jason dies at 15.

Cass is 7 months older calendar-wise than Jason; biologically she's about a year older, since Jason spent ~6 months dead

Tim is around two years younger than Jason: Tim was 13 when he was introduced a few months in-universe after Jason died at 15. By the end of the post-Crisis universe, Tim is 17 (potentially 18, depending on when Gates of Gotham takes place).

Stephanie is one year older than Tim. This has been confirmed on several occasions, but most notably Steph is explicitly 18 and a college freshman in her Batgirl run, when Tim was 17.

There's 6-7 years between Damian and Tim. Tim is 17 during his Red Robin run and Damian is ~11 by the end of the 2009 Batman & Robin run, though he never turns 11 on-panel.

Those are still the basic age gap guideposts, regardless of "on-panel" post-Flashpoint age retcons. Dick is the sticky one here, mostly because writers could never decide on a) what age he was when his parents died and b) how long he was Robin before becoming Nightwing. Dick's age is also complicated by Tim's backstory, because it gets really sticky if he's too old for Tim to have been in the audience when the Graysons fell.

Anyway...Cass. Cass was 17 in Batgirl (2000) #1; Tim had just turned 15 and was living with his father. While her age isn't consistently brought up, she was treated as a mature older teenager who switches between living with Barbara and independently in the 'cave' that Bruce gives her. We also know she's 18 by 2002 because of Batgirl #33, the issue where Cain tells Cass that her real birthday is January 26th, and Batgirl #37, where she formally turns 18; Tim is still 15 at the time.

Tim turns 16 on July 19th in Robin #116, published in 2003. This once again indicates that Cass is approximately two and a half years older than Tim. This is further confirmed by Batgirl #48 in 2004, where Bruce mentions that Cass is 18, and the fallout of War Games later that year, since Cass relocates to a new apartment in Bludhaven without all of the messy convoluted legal hoops a 16-year-old Tim jumps through to do the same.

As for Cass and Jason, that's discussed in Detective Comics #790, also published in 2004. Bruce takes Cass to Jason's grave on what would have been Jason's 18th birthday, August 16th:

"No one talks about him. All I know is...he was the second Robin. And that the Joker kil-" "He would have been eighteen today." -Detective Comics #790

Ages are always a bit difficult to parse in comics, but this issue confirmed that Cass and Jason were around the same age. While we were never explicitly told whether Cass was 18 or 19 in this scene, we have a very important context clue that provides the answer: Cass's birthday, January 26th.

This would make Cass still 18 during Tec #790, around 7 months older than Jason should have been. This would also keep the correct age gap between both Cass & Tim (since Tim had just turned 16) and Jason & Tim (since they're two years apart). This is further confirmed by Jason being around 19-20 during Under the Red Hood (which I previously puzzled out here), published the following year in 2005. This makes Cass vaguely 20-21 during the Reborn era, since we know that Tim is 17 (nearly 18) and Steph is solidly 18.

In terms of writing, Cass was consistently treated as a slightly "older" character. Tim and Steph were a bit of a matched set even though they were a year apart, but Cass's stories were always pitched for a slightly older and more mature character than theirs. Any writers engaging in infantilizing behavior tended to do so because they were trying to make points about Cass's social skills, not her age. Cass being grouped in with Tim and Steph rather than Jason had more to do with Jason being dead until 2005 and a villain until 2011 than it did age considerations.

So then we get to the post-Flashpoint universe, where we have to throw literally everything I just said out because welcome to the reboot, where the timeline is made up and the ages don't matter:

Cass was re-introduced in Batman and Robin Eternal, where she is explicitly noted to be 16. Stephanie and Tim were both about 17, since Tim's college application arc in Detective Comics Rebirth puts him at 17-18.

But Cass is written as slightly older than Duke during the 2019 Outsiders run, and Duke was 16 when he was introduced and supposed to be slightly younger than Tim and Steph.

Then we run into Tim's "eternally 17" issue compounded with DC actually allowing Damian to age (first to 13 in 2016 and then to 14 in 2021), which throws literally everyone else's timeline into whack.

We also get the Infinite Frontier era allowing Dick and Babs to be in their late 20s again (vs. being 21, like they both had been since 2011) while also dealing with the Batgirls writers admitting they thought both Cass and Steph were 13-14 before being corrected (which explains a lot about how they're written right now).

If all the information I just threw at you confuses you, congratulations: it confuses everyone else, too. Don't worry too much about it. This is why most people ignore any on-panel age considerations we've been given since 2011 and go with pre-reboot ages. Anyway, Duke is now in college as of Urban Legends #18. Logically Cass, Steph, and Tim should thus all be between 20-22 right now, if the timeline actually made sense. Accounting for basic pre-reboot age differences+new age considerations, here's where everyone SHOULD be:

Babs: early 30s

Dick: 28-29

Cass: 23

Jason: 22-23

Steph: 21-22

Tim: 20-21

Duke: 18 (confirmed)

Damian: 14 (confirmed)

............yeah. That's clearly not how they're all being written, but that's the best age approximations I can come up with based on the super convoluted and contradictory information we've been given over the past 11 years. Love how canon is instead acting like Cass and Steph are 13-14 (but still getting less mature storylines than the actual 14-year-old), Tim is eternally 17, Jason is somehow 21 and 35 at the same time, Dick is forever in his mid-20s, and no one knows whether Babs is supposed to be 21 or in her 30s. I hope this answers your question sufficiently despite all of the confusing info!

[dailycass-cain]

My Top 10 Favorite Cass Stories

Just last year ago I gave a list of my ten favorite Cass stories on Twitter (and here’s the 2020 edition. The funny thing is, not even a year later I look upon the last list (along with the bad) and my thoughts on some of these stories have changed. 

Not to mention, we’re only two months into 2023 and we’ve already got a Cass story that already makes this list for me. 

So I figure it’s 2023 and I haven’t posted my favorite Cass stories here. Let’s change that. So here are my Top Ten Favorite Cassandra Cain stories. You may not agree with them. Maybe you will? Just that these are my opinion. 

The thing about me and lists. They always mostly change. You compare my lists from years past. They may not completely match up (or in some places they will). Change always occur. 

That said. Let’s start with my honorable mentions. 

Honorable Mention #1: Detective Comics #790

-  It's just a dark uneasy tale due to Pete Woods' art and Andersen Gabrych's story. Bruce is a little more unnerved than usual (Jason's anniversary) and Cass is brought in personally to steer him back.

Why? Because of all the people of the Bat-Family, she understands him best. The dynamic between Bruce/Cass here. Teacher/heir is just so all over this story. You can tell Bruce really wants Cass to truly be his heir.

If there are any issues I have with this being better is well it’s the prelude to “War Games” and I’m not really fond of the negative talk Bruce has with Cass regarding Stephanie Brown.

Ironically, for a while the last good main Batman book story Cass had for awhile until...

Honorable Mention #2: Detective Comics #950, 955

- Until this one. Though I’ll be honest “Night of the Monster Men” is a FUN story too that has Cass, but Cass really isn’t central to the plot in that.  These issues were the first “main book” story that focused on Cass since-- 2004. 

What truly keeps this book low for me being an honorable mention are the same flaws that pop up in my “worst list” of Cass stories. If you take these two issues alone? The story is absolute gold. 

The full arc? (#950-956) are the reasons it got knocked down. Still, Marcio Takara and James Tynion IV together make the most of this story even with the hurdles higher ups (and Tynion’s own juggling the massive cast this run had) stall it.

I still think the arc would be more favorable if it ended with Bruce/Kate taking Cass to see Christine and well just a happy ending. Not to mention we get mostly zero fallout from what occurs here (the subplot of Ra’s here is tossed out due to Tynion having to leave the comic so he could go onto Justice League Dark).

What still hits hard about these two issues IS Takara’s art.  As those who are currently reading the Poison Ivy series, Takara can do some banger spreads. We have a few here with an "Old Boy" homage Takara throws in with Cass for good measure. 

Takara’s art and just the emotion he brings is why this story is STILL lingers.

Honorable Mention #3: Superboy #85

- Yes, the villain for this comic is all too forgettable. That’s really why it’ll alway be here. But why it remains always is the banter. Between the team-up of  Cass/Kon (also the opening/closing Tim/Kon segments) that truly shines here. Much like Batman, you throw Cass with a character outside her zone, MOMENTS HAPPEN.

Boy we get some hilarious moments that are truly chuckle worthy. There’s just something natural seeing the heroes here interact with one another. Something that feels kind of missing mostly in DC Comics nowadays (save in the Flash recently with its “Dark Crisis tie-in”. What we had there was absolute GOLD). 

I love me Batman having Batdad shenanigans over Tim/Cass and the rebellious Conner clashing with him. I know some might not like Cass/Kon, but the dynamic between the two in this issue is GOOD.  The dynamic is SOOO good between the two. It's truly a pity Cass wasn't allowed to show up outside her book in Kon's again. Because this issue still hits home for a lot of folks to this day (as we see TONS of fanart of them. Also for canon covers still acknowledge this issue, along with the “eh” one over in Batgirl Vol. 1).

But for me, it's just the emotion both light and dark that writer Joe Kelly just handles well here. Why I keep coming back to this darn issue. The character dynamics are just soooo good.

Honorable Mention #4 Batgirl Vol. 1 #50 "Tough Love"

-  It's Cass vs. Batman. The fight by Rich Leonardi is an epic one with Bruce/Cass going all Anakin/Obi-Wan by just changing the fighting venue every page. Looking for that opening.

You have some nice gremlin moment from Tim to get a cure to them both (given they're "fighting" due to a drug thrown at them by Dr. Death). If anything there's to knock on this is Nightwing being tossed around like a ragdoll by the two of them.

But really it's the ending of the fight that still resonates hard. Bruce being his most batdad again, but also just wanting to know where Cass's loyalties lie. Her answer is a good moment 

So wait this is an honorable mention now?! Yeah it kind of is. See, the one problem with writer Dylan Horrocks is that usually bits of his run ages like milk. Not very good. I get that he tried new things with the character, and went in different direction than the past writers. But.. his stuff ages the worst. 

Also listening to Batgirl to Oracle’s podcast when she reviewed the issue. She brings up some the things we often overlook for the amazing art and the stuff above. 

Basically, the whole subtextual issue between Bruce/Cass that’s at the core of the story. Horrocks’ coda for his series up to this point was Cass growing older and trying to answer if she’s attracted to men (or now realizing how certain males view her via her body reading abilities). Dealing with the complications of guys being into her (Black Wind, Superboy), Bruce being EXTREMELY overbearing (hence the fight), and you get stuff like this:

It’s stuff that Freud and any fan in the present going 😬😬😬😬

Yeah, this is the stuff that doesn’t age well at all. Why suddenly it’s been knocked down this low. 

So with these four out of the way. ONTO THE LIST...

10.) Batgirl Vol. 1 #2

-  To those critics against Cass who say she never loses. This issue is the textbook answer. She loses and hard, but learns an emotional lesson about why words mean so much. Why writing and art are so powerful in a tale with no real title (literally the credits are at the very bottom of the last page).

This story is a gut punch (the first of many) Kelley Puckett would deliver on the book. Though he did slide in a better one later on this list still, this would be stable for his and Damion Scott's run.

Besides the pathos Puckett brings, Scott equally just wraps an emotional ringer. Cass barely says anything in the issue but conveys SOOO much emotion in her eyes thru the mask (probably the biggest answer many on the “pro-black lenses can give over the white ones she currently has”).

Just the one-shot character of John Robinson just sticks with you even after it. Just a good man, being thrown the curveball that Gotham City gives. The impact of his story just still resonates with me.

9.) Batgirls #14 “The Rest is Silence...”

- Yup. It’s a 2023 entry. I told you something made me start to question things and this story (while not concluded) I’m putting here on the list just for the sheer performance artist Jonathan Case pulls with this issue.

We’ve all wanted a unique Cass story (and boy howdy did we get some bangers in 2021 more on those later) and this is the first Batgirls story that feels true to the character of Cass. Anyone who is a harsh critic of this book has nothing to complain about. The narration (that’s not Cass/Steph/Babs) that can dull the comic’s better moments. It’s not found here. An older teen Cass is drawn here (not a preteen one that many have hated). Plus the dialogue by the writers Becky Cloonan and Michael Conrad. That’s not here, but they do cheat (but it’s a cheat I’m going to allow). 

Again, this is Jonathan Case’s world and we’re living in the gorgeous art he’s doing here. There are SEVERAL pages that are just awing to read and look at. Just so much 

If there’s any negative well... this is new. So I figure this is the best place to put this issue. Will it remain (as there are two more issues of this arc in Batgirls)? Who knows. But right at THIS MOMENT and this issue alone. It earns a spot on my list.

8.) Batgirl Vol.1 #60-62 aka "The Hood" arc

-  What I love about this story are two reasons. #1 Cass by herself while trying to navigate the city of Bludhaven by establishing herself (with no Bruce or Babs). #2 Cass fighting unique foes with unique skill sets i.e. the Brotherhood of Evil.

From them just handing Cass her butt, to her rising back up and kicking them. It's a nice little "underdog" story showing just how far Cass has come as a fighter along with showcasing her "Batman' side. By doing her homework, prep timing, and wrecking the Brotherhood.

This is probably my favorite complete arc by Gabrych. He's got both Pop Mhan and Ale Garza backing him on the story and they all deliver high here.

Add the nice intro of Brenda and the gut punch of seeing Stephanie again (even if she died at the time period). This arc just has so many GOOD things that were promising. Pity, the later half Gabrych gave us wasn't classic as this was.

7.) DC Festival of Heroes: The Asian Superhero Celebration #1  "Sounds"

-  Oh yes! We got a 2021 story here.  Introduce Cass to new audiences? Showcase why fans enjoy her. Yes, it tempts me to put a certain arc of WFA up here. Here is one thing this has over that, Marcus To drawing Cass as Batgirl.

I always wanted it. To made the Black Bat costume better and gave us Ninja Gaiden Cass. But we all wanted him to draw THE costume.

I mean it's just everything. Add the small bits of actions we're given, bits of her origin, and the entire plot of Cass trying to find her "voice". Writer Mariko Tamaki just packs SOOO much in here and begins the call for many to have her write Cass more. This is the story where that all began. Tamaki just GETS Cass as a character. 

Everything is just top-notch in this story. You can tell the entire creative team It's a nice reintroduction for new readers for Cass. Along with giving older fans well something we'd never thought to see again. 🥺

The story just feels unreal to see happen. After ALL DC did in the past with the character. This story hits, but not as harder as my #1.

6.) Batgirl Vol. 1 #7-9

- Now I'll admit looking over this list. I was like, "Wait why didn't I include #9 with this arc?" So it's time to correct that mistake!

There's no real "name" for this arc but it is just three stories that have the debut of a certain someone to the series.  Cass's opposite. Her reflection. Lady Shiva.

Everything between these two is laid perfectly in "conflict"  and for what is to come by Puckett and Scott. The 😮when Shiva shows up in the first panel and Cass is like, "I've got to fight that."  he expressions. An appetizer for what is to come with these two.

Add the bookend pieces of #7 (of Batman/Shiva against Cass), along with just SOOOO much good lines by the two uttered in these issues. I mean there are some good quotes here. So many good scenes.

But again, this is a teaser for what's to come. What an amazing setup these three issues are.

5.)  Batgirl Vol. 1 #19 "Nobody Dies Tonight!"

-  Remember what I said earlier of Puckett/Scott delivering banger single issues? Here's another! On the anniversary of something near to Cass's mind, she tries to make sure for one night, nobody dies tonight!

Seeing the morality of the lesson played out here is more gut-wrenching than #2 given Cass is the focus here.  She's doing her thing while the whole piece is her seeing someone being put to death tonight, and well her proclamation is tested hard.

Along with her mantra on everyone can change. You have all that, and the shadow of what is looming more and moreover her. The story is so good, to this day I ain't even gonna post it. This is one story you gotta track down and see for yourself.

Even if it is one more piece to a larger puzzle Puckett/Scott put to lead into #25.

4.) Batgirl Vol. 1 #21 (Last Laugh Tie-In)

-  This is still my most favorite issue not shared by many of the Puckett/Scott run. It just goes to show you just how good this run is. There are SOOOOOOOOO many issues that can show up on a list for fav Cass stories.  This is just mine.

Reasons why I enjoy this issue in particular among others is #1 the way it starts off with Cass's training montage which has Scott just go to town so much. You can tell Scott probably watched A TON of Bruce Lee movies as the homage is strong in the opening pages.

#2 Cass/Steph get a really important moment that furthers their friendship. I mean sure this isn't the issue they become really good friends, but this is the issue where the foundation keeps getting added (#20 started that).

Besides the moment at the end, there's the other moments of Steph's quirky persona that just win you over with the character.

#3 the fight between Shadow Thief/Cass. When you see Cass smiling in her mask if I were a villain, "running would be a very good idea." The moment is so shōnen and Scott just goes balls to the wall here with how he draws Cass dominating Thief.

This leads into #4 the outcome (but ties into #2). Like literally the fight switches in a heartbeat from 😁 to 😨in a single panel. Just seeing the look of broken horror in Cass's face realizing she might have taken another life makes my eyes water.

And here comes Steph to save the day. Dang, does she do some good friend stuff here. Just saving Shadow Thief and being there for Cass before the later scurries off.

3.) Batman: Urban Legends #7 "The Hunter... or the Hunted"

-  A unique tale starring Cass by Guillaume Singelin takes Tec #955's concept of a long action sequence but goes harder. No dialogue or text. Just action. All action.

It's a real pity this story came way after the "Future State" event, as the story does a way better job showcasing how worse Gotham has become. There's a clear homage to so much in the story.

Singelin's art is something I haven't seen since Batgirl Vol. 1. Just the crispiness and layout of the fight sequences. The fact that this showcases why Cass is just a character quite unique. You can throw a writer/artist with a unique style. Just watch them go to town.

It's one of the things I always wished we could've seen with again Cass in Vol. 1. The closest we got was with Damion Scott in Solo #10, but it's just so wondrous to see Cass in a tale that feels like something that NEEDS to be animated again.

Every time I read this story there's just so much to just look at even if the story moves at a rapid pace from the action. It's just perfectly choreographed with Cass coming up on top.

2.)  Batgirl Vol. 1  #25 "I Am Become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds"

- The crescendo of the Puckett/Scott run delivers so very much in this issue. From the literally EPIC  brawl, Cass/Shiva have in this issue. To the little moments with Cass/Babs and Cass/jumper. This is the creative team as the seeds planted bear glorious fruit.

There's just so much about this issue that can be dissected and taken apart. Everyone is an all-star this issue as Scott is at the literal height of his art giving us (for me) the greatest comic book fight EVER.

From the set-up of the final round to the way, this is Puckett/Scott's opus. A slobber knocker. You feel the other's blow when it connects. Often imitated. NOTHING can ever top the OG brawl Cass/Shiva had in this issue. Nothing but one thing...

1.) Shadow of the Batgirl

-  It's still the champ of my heart! Writer Sarah Kuhn takes all of what has happened with the character. Seen what worked and what didn't. Adds her own spin on what quite possibly is the best Cass story of them all.

From the very cover alone, before I opened the book this story hits a raw nerve for me. It opens an emotional flood gate.

Kuhn just crams so much of Cass stuff into this graphic novel it just is utterly amazing at how much she puts in here. She delivers so much that literally and hits so many things... dammit thinking about the graphic novel suddenly my eyes are watering... AGAIN.. wrassin frassin.

Adding to that is Nicole Goux's art which like Scott is so darn expressive and perfect for Cass. You don't need words when Goux perfectly captures what is going on in Cass and what Cass see's of the world around her.

I feel like a broken record on how much this story smacked me in the head. I was going to like it, but love it this much? Was like, "How?" But the emotion the creative team pours into this character you truly get how much they love Cass.

And this is the best intro story to get others interested in the character.  Like literally, there are so many dang moments in this comic that are just SOOOOOOO good. And dangit thinking of these moments... freaking heck. Like literally..

.. when the comic hit me across the head with just so much emotion and I've read it numerous times over already. The fact that it is still doing this to me. Yeah, it had to be my #1.

So there's my list. Yes, I know I left out some choices that are like, "WHY?" But this is my personal list. The thing about it is-- IT ALWAYS CHANGES! So do you agree or disagree? What’s your favorite Cass stories? I’d love to hear them! 

[roydeezed]

Detective Conan-Case 229:Vandalized Cars Case

Case Round-Up(Chapter/File 790-792)

After a long hiatus from my beloved Detective Conan, I’m back talking about it. The recent Viz app with the official translation of the series definitely helped hasten this return. The quality itself has been superb. Taking a second to talk about the Viz and Weekly Shonen Jump app, they really get the point of streaming services. In the heydays of streaming services, the content was so much easier to watch than pirating it but now with everything being split up in a way that’s reminiscent of television, it’s much easier to pirate than even try and find your favourite shows. I know it sounds like I’m shilling for it but if everything was like this the world would be such a better place. And the service of these apps and services that Viz puts out is excellent. Comparing it with manga and comic apps like Marvel Unlimited and Crunchyroll Manga, the difference is night and day. While they don’t have the smart reading option that Marvel does with it zooming into individual panels (arguably destroying creator intention) the UI is so much easier to manage. The only complaint I have with the Viz app is that it shows manga that’s available on the Weekly Shonen Jump app as well and I’d rather just have the two separate.  Okay enough shilling, back to the chapter at hand. Coming back to the series I do want to change up a few things. I’m going to start using the numbering system and names used by the wiki as that might be a more manageable format. Getting into the content of the chapter itself, we have a continuation to Chiba’s love story as his car gets vandalized and his childhood crush shows up. The Detective boys try to get them together and Ai calls out the entire police department in one of the sickest burns as seen below. The romance takes a wobbly first step but doesn’t make a lot of progress. Honestly at this point I’m vibing with the pace of plot points. It’s a lot more realistic and with so many characters to deal with, I’ll give Aoyama a little leeway. While the romantic shenanigans take center stage, with Aoyama casually dropping one of the funniest panels ever as seen above, a tragic story of a lost child underpins the whole case, as the motive behind the vandalisms was the grief of a mother. As always, Conan remains gravely kind while dealing with such somber moments. It’s great being back and reading this series again so I hope I’ll be able to post more about it soon!

[armed-with-a-waffle-iron]

Bat Family Ages (with Sources & Panels)

Notes: I'm NOT using a "year zero"; the calendar year before "Batman: Year One" is "1 Year Before Batman".

TLDR

Ages at the end of Preboot (Batman: Year Twenty)- Bruce (45), Renee (37-38), Kate (33), Babs (27-28), Helena (26-27), Dick (26), Cass (21), Jason (20-21), Steph (19), Tim (17 18), Damian (10-11).

D.O.B.-

Bruce Wayne- 26 Years Before Batman

Renee Montoya- 7th September, 19 Years Before Batman

Kate Kane- 14 Years Before Batman

Barbara Gordon- 8-9 Years Before Batman

Helena Bertinelli- 8 Years Before Batman

Dick Grayson- 1st Day of Spring™, 7 Years Before Batman

Cassandra Cain-Wayne- 26th January, 2 Years Before Batman

Jason Todd- 16th August, 2 Years Before Batman

Stephanie Brown- 1 Year Before Batman

Tim Drake-Wayne- Batman: Year One

Damian Wayne- Batman: Year Nine

Long Version

Bruce Wayne- 26 Years Before Batman

On the 4th of January, Year One, a 25 year-old Bruce Wayne returns to Gotham after 12 years abroad on 4th January, months before his first outing as Batman (Batman: Year One #1). Unless his birthday is between Jan 1-4, Bruce turns 26 the year Batman is born.

Dick Grayson- 1st Day of Spring, 7 Years Before Batman

Dick Grayson's origin story is appears in the tail end of Batman: Dark Victory, which takes place in the 4th and 5th years of Batman's career.

In its sequel, Robin: Year One, Dick begins attending Bristol Middle School. And in Batman & Robin (2009) #13, Dick, as Batman, tells the Joker he had already figured him out at 12 but The Joker doesn't appear in Robin: Year One. So, Dick is probably 11 when he becomes Robin, in Year Five (Dark Victory). Dick is 19 years younger than Bruce.

Important for later, Dick becomes Nightwing, aged 19 (Nightwing: Year One and Batman #116) in Year Thirteen.

Jason Todd- August 16th, 2 Years Before Batman

According to his death certificate, Jason Todd was 15 years and 8 months old when he died on the 27th of April (Batman Files). His birthday is August 16th (Detective Comics #790). At this time, Dick Grayson was 21, having left the Robin mantle 2 years earlier; at 19 (Batman #436). Jason is around 5 years younger than Dick. He was hence Robin for less than 2 years, from when he was 13 going on 14 in Year Thirteen up to 27th April, Year Fifteen.

Stephanie Brown- 2 Years Before Batman

Steph is 15 when she debuts as Spoiler (Secret Origin 80-Page Giant). At the same time as her debut comic, Deathstroke (1991) Annual 1 has Dick saying he, one of the oldest Titans, is no older than 21 (the age he was when Jason died). Dick is 6 years older than Steph. So Steph debuts in Year Fifteen; the same year Jason dies and Tim becomes Robin.

Steph becomes Batgirl right before her freshman year of university, aged 18, going on 19 (Batgirl 2009 #1). This is in Year Nineteen. Which means that Preboot ends in Batman: Year Twenty as Steph has not yet entered sophomore year. Convergence takes place after of course.

Barbara Gordon- 8-9 Years Before Batman

Batgirl (2000) #45 shows that Babs was already Batgirl at 18. As an adult, Babs is 5'11" and yet she did not meet the minimum height requirements for the GCPD or FBI during Batgirl: Year One. She must have become Batgirl before she stopped growing, and so was at most 16 during Batgirl: Year One. She also says that she is older than Dick in Batgirl: Year One but they must be close enough in age for them to go to prom together (Detective Comics #871). My theory is that Babs didn't go to her own prom because she skipped grades and was or felt too young so her high school prom was actually when she went with Dick to his. Babs is somewhere between 1-2 years older than Dick.

There's more evidence for this. Dick is already a Teen Titan during Batgirl: Year One and in New Titans #89 said that he knew Donna Troy since they were both 13. So Babs likely became Batgirl between Year Seven and Year Eight, when she was 15-16 and Dick was 13-14. Also, Dick and Babs have a picnic as friends 12 years before The Black Mirror, in Year Twenty, so these ages are pretty perfect.

Important for later, Babs is shot by the Joker just before Jason is killed and becomes Oracle before Tim becomes Robin. This is in Year Fifteen; she is roughly 22 here given that Dick is 20-21 at the time. No panels just math :P

Cassandra Cain-Wayne- January 26th, 2 Years Before Batman

Cassandra Cain debuts in No Man's Land aged 17 (Batgirl 2000 #1) and turns 18 on the 26th of January the following year, though she only learns this after it has passed (Batgirl 2000 #33). Later that year, Bruce brings her to Jason's grave on the 16th of August, the day he would have turned 18 (Detective Comics #790). She is 7 months older than Jason.

Helena Bertinelli- 8 Years Before Batman

Helena Bertinelli was 8 when her family was murdered and the events of Huntress: Cry for Blood takes place 15 years after, following directly after No-Man's Land. Huntress is hence 23 following No-Man's Land. Cass turns 18 soon after No-Man's land, so Helena is around 5 years older than Cass.

But, Cass is born in January and Helena could be born later in the year. Helena Bertinelli is 21 years-old during Huntress: Year One; when she becomes the Huntress. She soon moves back to Gotham after Carvinal in Venice (late Jan-early Feb), and encounters Barbara Gordon as Batgirl. Babs is at most 22 here so Babs is close to 1 year older than Helena and Helena is slightly older than Dick. Huntress debuts at the tail end of Year Fourteen.

Damian Wayne- Batman: Year Nine

Dick and Stephanie call Damian a 10 year old in Batman and Robin #2 and Batgirl #17. One takes place before Steph starts uni (since Damian appears in Batgirl 2009 #1) and the other takes place during Steph's second semester of freshman year (Batgirl #13). So Damian is 9 years younger than Stephanie. He first appears aged 9 at the start of Year Nineteen and becomes Robin later that year, aged 10.

Renee Montoya- 7th September, 19 Years Before Batman

In 52 #14, published in 2006, we see Renee's passport and date of birth: 9/7/1970. It is the 14th week of the year so she would be 35 going on 36. 52 takes place in Year Eighteen, the calendar year Damian turns 9, so Renee is 27 years older than Damian.

She debuts as the second Question in 52 #48 the same year, aged 36.

Kate Kane- 14 Years Before Batman

Kate Kane is 32 at the time of Batwoman: Elegy, in Year Nineteen, since she was in the same class at West Point as the real-life activist Dan Choi, which means that she was part of the US Military Academy Class of 2003. Damian is 10 at the time so Kate is 22 years older than Damian.

Tim Drake-Wayne- Batman: Year One

Tim's age is THE weird one because DC are hellbent on keeping him at 17. It's too much for my brain, like how is he still 17 in Red Robin?? Let's say he seems to be only a year younger than Stephanie Brown a la Secret Origins 80-Page Giant or that he was bitten by a strange vampire bat during the One Year Later time skip. Your pick.

Fun fact: Dick permanently becomes Batman at 25 (in Year Nineteen), which is possibly the same age Bruce was when he became Batman.

[bitimdrake]

I heard that the writer who wrote the age for Jason Todd in Detective Comics #790 actually made a mistake. They never intended for those ages (Cass and Jason) to be seen close in age.

I don't take "i heard someone once said" sources very seriously (though I would love if you had a real link!). But whether it was initially intended or not, Cass's age was consistently the same as what Jason's would have been. And not long after, Batgirl #65 outright confirms them as close in age:

"Jason." "Yes. […] You and he would be roughly the same age."

[heroesriseandfall]

I think Jason and Tim may have canonically been in the same school grade before Jason died. Not because Tim skipped any grades, but because Jason was behind two grades. This would also mean Jason died before he ever made it into high school.

Based on what I have extrapolated from post-Crisis comics, this seems like a working timeline:

Here is a calendar view with arbitrarily chosen years and other details added in for reference (if you can’t see it very well, here’s the spreadsheet)

Below is the math + sources (all based on post-Crisis comics)

Before being adopted by Bruce, Batman #410 says Jason was a 5th grade dropout

(sidenote: Jason said his mom was sick for over a year and she died in the most recent February before Bruce met Jason in Batman #408-409)

By the time of Batman Annual 12 (published only a few months before Jason died)*, Jason was in 7th grade

His deathdate is given as April 27th in Batman Annual 25 and The Batman Files, which is during the school year

So he was probably in 7th grade when he died

Jason was most likely 14** when he died, and his Aug 16 birthday is before the New Jersey cut-off date of October 1st

Tim was most likely 12 when Jason died, since they’re almost exactly 2 years apart

Usually, 7th graders are 12-13 years old

So Jason was 2 years older than typical for 7th grade, and he is 2 years older than Tim

Tim started 9th grade/high school at age 14 (Robin II: Joker's Wild), over a year after Jason's death

14-15 is typical starting age for 9th grade, so Tim is clearly in the usual age-range for his grade

So Tim would be in 7th grade when Jason died. Same as Jason.

* Publishing dates don’t always match up with where things fit in a timeline. Especially since annuals aren’t always clearly positioned in related to the rest of the comic’s issues. In the annual, Jason does mention KGBeast, who he’d fought recently in the then-current Batman run.

My default is to presume things are meant to be set generally near other comics published the same time unless I see an indication otherwise. There isn’t much indication here—Jason’s age really isn’t mentioned at all during his actual run as Robin IIRC, we have to extrapolate from later comics.

**My reasons for Jason being 14 and Tim being 12 when he dies are long and complicated, but for a brief overview:

We know they’re almost exactly two years apart because Jason turned 18 on Aug 16th in Detective Comics #790, and just a while before that, Tim had turned 16 on July 19th in Robin Vol. 2 #116. That would make them around 1 year 11 months apart. The death certificate in The Batman Files says Jason was 15 when he died on April 27. However, Jay dying in April and Tim being 13 when his training starts a few months later (implied to be late summer/early fall, in Batman: A Lonely Place of Dying; age 13 confirmed again in Batman #448) and then December and more than 6 months passing before Tim is finally said to be 14 starting high school (Robin II: Joker’s Wild), and then having to stuff Tim’s Robin training, Knightfall, Contagion, Legacy, and Aftershocks into all being while he’s 14…all make it mathematically unreasonable for Tim & Jason to be anything other than 14 and 12 when Jason dies. Tim must turn 13 after Jason’s death, right before he’s introduced, so that he has time to become Robin etc. before he turns 14. Jason being 15 really doesn't work well when comparing to other comics, so I think it makes more sense to say they for some reason rounded up his age to 15 since he would have been turning 15 in a few months. With this timeline, Jason would be roughly 14 years, 8 months, and 11 days old when he died. There IS a comic (Batman #416) that implies Jason was Robin for longer than this would require, but the timeline for that makes my head hurt and it was contradicted by Nightwing: Year One anyway. There’s also the case of Dick’s age compared to them, which bitimdrake has already gone into depth about and also makes it less likely Jason was 15 since Dick was 19 when he became Nightwing (Batman #416) and at most 21 after Tim already became Robin (Deathstroke Annual 1, 1992). TL;DR: Jason could, theoretically, have been 15 when he died, but it makes the timeline so wonky to do that and 14 almost 15 works way better.

My personal headcanon is Jason drops out of 5th grade at age 10, probably due to homelife issues. Catherine Todd gets sick, and a year or more passes of Jason not being in school while she’s sick. It’s not entirely clear when Jason becomes homeless, though Batman #426 says he “disappeared” (according to his old neighbor) after his mom died to avoid getting put in a state home. Catherine dies in the closest February to when Dick quits being Robin/gets fired at age 19. Then Jason gets adopted at age 12, turns 13, and goes into 6th grade right after. This would match up perfectly for Jason to be in 7th grade by the time he’s 14, rather than 9th grade like most other 14 year olds.

(Which, at that point, especially when Jason had such good grades, why not let him skip to be in his own age group? idk, maybe Bruce or Jason or Alfred had particular thoughts about Jason continuing where he left off, maybe Gotham schools have particular feelings about that, who knows)

I do want to note, I think it is very unlikely Tim and Jason attended the same school in pre-Crisis canon. Jason’s school for 7th grade wasn’t specified, though in Batman and Robin Vol. 1 #25 he says he went to Thomas Wayne Middle School for 3 months (why only 3 months??? eerily that is the same amount of time between a spring semester starting & Jason’s April deathdate...an implication Jason switched schools or was homeschooled at Wayne Manor for a bit??).

EDIT: I've recently looked it up and realized some schools in the US do include 5th grade as middle school. So if Jason dropped out of 5th grade, at Thomas Wayne Middle School, three months after starting there, that could be an explanation for why he said that.

It seems like (but not totally sure) Jason probably went to public school, which would match up with Robin: Year One showing Dick go to a public middle school, too.

On the other hand, we know for sure that Tim attended various private boarding schools throughout his childhood (as stated in Batman: A Lonely Place of Dying, Robin III: Cry of the Huntress, etc.) so I just really don’t think they were at the same schools. If you wanted to, though, you could easily make them go to the same schools in fanfic so they could be in the same classes.