#Robin Vol 1: Reborn

[junkdrawerfan]

Why do people make Tim being “sent” to train under Lady Shiva a bad thing in fanfics?

UM… ACTUALLY! Everything about that sentence is wrong.

Bruce doesn’t send Tim to train abroad after “only a few weeks.”

Bruce doesn’t send Tim to Lady Shiva. Tim finds that trouble all on his own.

Point 1: Bruce doesn't send Tim to train abroad until after he's been trained by Bruce for months and has "earned" the robin suit by saving Bruce from The Scarecrow. Tim meets Bruce during Spring — as seen in the art during Tim’s time tracking Dick to Halley’s Circus during his intro comic — and is being trained by him until Christmas Eve where Tim defeats Scarecrow. That is a at least 7-8 months of training.

After receiving the Robin suit, Tim expresses doubt in his ability to be Robin to which Bruce says “You just need to gain physical prowess” and suggests a training trip in Paris.

Point 2: Bruce then sends Tim to Paris to train under one of Batman’s old teacher: a Tibetan monk who’s taken refuge in Paris and is a specialist in both healing and hand to hand combat. The monk is referred to **cringe** as “Lama.” Tim then gets caught up in a gang fight which spirals into a conspiracy and catches the attention of Lady Shiva all on his own!

(Total side note and I know it was like 1991 BUT SO MANY early Tim stories have awkward racism you can’t even squint past. You gotta just grit your teeth and keep reading. His parents are killed by an evil voodoo guy. He trains under a mystical Tibetan monk. He has some awkward run ins with a Chinese mob. He had to manage a couple of “angry black guy” characters. Like I’m sure lots of other DC properties were just as bad at this time. But then you remember that Tim’s Robin is one of THE MOST successful comic lines during the 90s and early 00s and it’s just awkward. And DC still won’t hire enough non-white male writers and artists when you have beautiful stories like The Boy Wonder written by brilliant POC artists. Like why?!??)

Look I'm not saying Bruce is a perfect mentor to Tim. His reactions to Janet Drake's death is not ideal. Bruce also tries to hide information from Tim when his parents are kidnapped and lets Tim think his parents are dead because "what if Bruce can't fix it". Bruce's control issues are on fine display for several issues.

But sending Tim to Lady Shiva is not a neglectful act on Bruce's part. Tim ditched Bruce’s safe training plan and gets involved with a DEA agent and Lady Shiva.

It turns out — as you find out at the end of the comic set about Tim’s training — Bruce has been lurking around watching and waiting to step in if things get out of control for a while sfter Tim ditches Paris but otherwise lets Tim think he’s alone until Tim has succeeded in his mission and defeated King Snake. Bruce does this is to help Tim gain confidence in the field, something he was lacking during the moment Bruce hands him the Robin suit.

It’s a really sweet arc actually and helps set up what kind of Robin Tim Drake is going to be! Plus it’s a fun read (ignoring the racism)!

There is no reason to treat it as one of Bruce’s failings. He makes plenty of those all on his own.

[writing-nothing-but-spilled-ink]

Damian voiced my thoughts exactly I love this little menace to society 😂

Via batman and Robin batman reborn vol 1 (dick Grayson batman and Damian Robin)

[petrerpkr]

Batman comics I recommend for beginners

Batman(2011-2024) Start here (Batman #567 – First appearance of Cassandra Cain)

Robin (tim Drake as robin)

Detective Comics (1999 -2024)

Batman, Vol. 1: The Court of Owls(2012)

Batman and Son(2006)

Batman and Robin, Vol. 1: Batman Reborn(2009) (dick as batman)

Batman and Robin Vol. 2 #1 (2011)(bruce as batman)

Batman Year One (1987)

Robin: Year One #1 (2001)

(dick as robin)

Batgirl: Year One #1 (2003)(Barbara as batgirl)

Batman: Under the red Hood(2006)

Detective Comics Vol. 1: Faces of Death(2013)

Batman: Urban Legends #1 (2021)

Reading order here & here for more In depth list

Read here Or here 🏴‍☠️

[thesulkycroissant]

You;ve probably answered this but if someone is a tim drake fan, where should they start with comics

I haven't answered this before but I do have an answer for you! I think start right at the beginning with the A Lonely Place of Dying arc. This is Tim's intro. You should be able to find it in a collection but if not the original comics are:

Batman #440 (Suspects)

New Titans #60 (Roots)

Batman #441 (Parallel Lines)

New Titans #61 (Going Home!)

Batman #442 (Rebirth)

All you really need to know at that point, which you may already know, is that it's very shortly after Jason’s death.

Following that I would recommend you read the Robin Reborn: Vol. 1 (Detective Comics 618-621, Batman 445-457, and Robin 1-5) which is Tim's Robin prep and assuming of the Robin mantle.

Then a personal favorite is the Contagion plotline, and also No Man's Land.

That should get you hooked!! Lol

[zahri-melitor]

Why did Red Robin fail as an alias that Tim was transitioned into? Did it ‘fail’?

I don't have any special insight on this one, but I can give you a bunch of reasons that made it unpopular.

The main one however? It's heavily associated with n52 Tim, and people don't like n52 Tim.

(Heads up going in - I will be using cover dates for all of this, because working with cover dates over publication dates is simpler for me)

Tim used 'Red Robin' as a name between August 2009 and July 2018. This splits up as follows with the major titles he was appearing in:-

2 years, 3 months (August 2009 - October 2011) in Batman Reborn pre-Flashpoint as Red Robin (Red Robin vol 1):

5 years, 1 month (November 2011 - November 2016) in n52 as Red Robin (Teen Titans vol 4 & 5, Batman Eternal, Batman & Robin Eternal):

2 years (August 2016 - July 2018) in Rebirth as Red Robin (Detective Comics):

I wanted to put the photos up to help clarify the differences between each of these versions.

Yes, there's overlap between the last two, because Teen Titans vol 5 finished several months after the start of Tynion's Detective Comics run. The two characters are essentially separate - switching over to Rebirth was a messy process that took several months depending on the title

The majority of appearances of 'Red Robin' as a character are of n52 'Tim Drake', who doesn't have the same backstory, parents or history as Robin as the characters either side of him. He's the one that most long term fans of the character would rather not talk about or think about.

Tynion's Detective Comics run between 2016 to 2018 was about taking the characters therein back to their pre-Flashpoint characterisation, as much as possible. And you can tell from the costume, Tim was 'Red Robin' in name only. He was wearing a Robin costume that simply happened to have an extra R on the crest. He looked like a Robin, acted like a Robin, was doing Robinlike work for Batman, and when Young Justice 2019 started he got a costume update that dropped the extra R from the top and he's been using Robin again ever since (less the attempt at using 'Drake' as a code name in 2020).

So why did it fail? Here's a bunch of reasons:

People don't like the cowl design on Tim: even Marcus To, the artist best associated with Tim as Red Robin before Flashpoint, perpetually draws Tim with the cowl down and often with part of the costume off for commissions and artwork.

People don't like the new 52 version of Tim.

Red Robin was a costume that Tim put on back in 2009 as a punishment to himself while was was doing 'unRobinlike' things looking for Bruce, and once that circumstance was over, there wasn't that much time during Reborn to really cement it as Tim's adult persona due to the universe getting cut off and rebooted.

New 52 Tim was largely not associated with the rest of the Bats for various editorial reasons, making him an outsider that's unusual compared to the rest of his characterisation since 1989.

To show the difference for Tynion's 'Tec run and convince all the fans that new 52 Tim was gone, they decided to make a very clear visual distinction between the characters. That visual distinction essentially was making Tim into a Robin again.

If you're looking at character storyline for Tim Drake, son of Jack and Janet, the story arc effectively goes: Batman Reborn, Convergence, Detective Comics, Young Justice 2019. Which is a story of Tim transferring himself back OUT of the Red Robin costume as he healed and no longer needed it as a temporary measure, and regaining his memories and history.

I mean, why would DC want to use Red Robin for Tim? It's got the difficulty that Jason has taken over effective ownership of the colour red for identification in the family purposes. It's associated with times of grief in Tim's life (because Tim explicitly wears red for loss: for Kon and for Bruce) and with storylines they've excised from his history. It's explicitly a form of self-flagellation.

It could have been Tim's Nightwing, but it's effectively ended up Tim's Grayson period. Something that happened and is referenced, but there are good reasons not to return to.

[gffa]

Hello there! I was wondering if you could help me with some comic recs. I've been looking to read the Batman's-lost-in-the-time-stream stories specifically the ones where Tim tracks down evidence of Bruce not being dead (blowing up the LoA and losing his spleen in the process etc), but I find it tricky to pin down the exact comic names and numbers. I figured asking was worth a shot since you seem to know your way around the various continuities. Thank you! 💙

Hi! I will freely admit that I had to Google a lot of this, because I haven't read most of those comics since they originally came out and my memory is fuzzy, but I do think I can at least point you in the right direction. The majority of what you're looking for re: Tim is going to be in Red Robin, but a lot of this storyline spilled over kind of everywhere and crosses into several smaller event storylines, but as best as I can remember/find: (Note: These are all comics from around 2008-2010, so when you go looking for them, keep them separate from a lot of the current ongoings that have reached these numbers again. XD)

Bruce "dies" in the Final Crisis mini-series

Portions of that story also spill over into Batman R.I.P. 2008 (Batman vol. 1 issues #676–681). For memory, it's a separate story from the fight with Darkseid that "killed" Bruce, but aspects of it are intertwined with that main story, so feel free to skim if you want.

"Nightwing: The Great Leap" (vol. 2, issues #147-153) is part of the Batman R.I.P. storyline that will lead into Last Rites and Battle for the Cowl

The final issues of the Robin vol. 2 series, issues #175-183, are also part of the lead-up to the Last Rites storyline (and then part of the main storyline itself)

Last Rites is spread out across Batman #682-685, Detective Comics #851-852, Nightwing #151-153, Robin #183

Okay, for Battle for the Cowl storyline, there's a lot going on, but you can read the three issue mini series (Battle for the Cowl #1-3) and then kind of pick-and-choose what you want from the tie-in oneshots. I'm not sure how important most of them are, if you're just here for main Batfam drama, but the DC fandom wiki has a good list of them all.

This leads us into the Batman Reborn storyline, which is Dick as Batman and Damian as Robin and there's a lot of comics going on at this time that are dealing with the general fallout but not necessarily specifically about Bruce being lost in time. But I really liked this era, so of course I'd recommend reading it anyway.

Red Robin is where you're going to find the "Tim really looks like he's having a mental breakdown and goes off to find Bruce" content that you're looking for, those issues are the prime material for it, just that there's context spilling everywhere first before you get to them.

Batman and Robin from 2009 is Dick and Damian's side of everything that was going on--they do have other stuff they have to deal with, they're fighting against all the usual cases in Gotham popping up, but the "Bruce is lost in time" story does have a lot of context here as well, that Dick actually is doing research into this as well.

Early on in both of the above two comic runs (within about six issues or so) was an event called Blackest Night where all the dead came back to life and it's mostly about that, but the Batman tie in issues had Tim coming back to Gotham and the issue was raised of, "wait, why does Bruce's corpse look all wrong?" and people start to believe that Bruce is alive. I'd say read the two Batman tie-in issues for sure and at least skim the main Blackest Night #1-8 for anything Bat-related.

Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne #1-6 is Bruce's side of his "death" and eventual return.

Bruce Wayne: The Road Home is the follow-up/aftermath of that and is spread out across several oneshots and the order is generally: Batman #703 (prelude) --> Bruce Wayne: The Road Home: Batman and Robin #1 --> Bruce Wayne: The Road Home: Red Robin #1 --> Bruce Wayne: The Road Home: Outsiders #1 --> Bruce Wayne: The Road Home: Batgirl #1 --> Bruce Wayne: The Road Home: Catwoman #1 --> Bruce Wayne: The Road Home: Commissioner Gordon #1 --> Bruce Wayne: The Road Home: Oracle #1 --> Bruce Wayne: The Road Home: Ra's al Ghul #1 --> Batman: The Return #1 (These are NOT issue #1 of their given series, these are all separate oneshots--aside from the Batman #703 prelude, of course.)

@fantastic-nonsense also has a really great context-laden post here about the storyline of them searching for Bruce and is very helpful to understand all the moving parts! If I missed anything major, hopefully she or someone else can step in and give us issue numbers. I know that's a lot of comics to throw at you, but it kind of goes to show that this is how some of the Bat-storylines used to have more of this kind of stuff, where they had big, sprawling events and everything kind of spilled over onto everything else. I don't miss having to buy a zillion issues to keep up with a storyline taking over my favorite book, but I do miss the interconnectedness of stuff like this, when it worked, it created storylines that genuinely were game-changing in the Batman franchise. Hopefully, this helps and if nothing else you can know that you inspired me to go pull out some of these runs and reread them to refresh my memory. (Even if I'm still mortal enemies with Grant Morrison, they wrote a lot of the comics that were at the height of my interest in DC. XD)

[glamourscat]

Hi!! I was wondering if you have any comic recs for Tim?

After receiving this question my life is complete 🙏🏻🙏🏻 But ofc!!

Robin VOL 1 Reborn

Robin VOL 2 triumphant

Teen titans by Geoff Johns run

Young justice, the 98s run definitely!

Nightwing number 25, if you want to explore the relationship between nightwing and tim (it’s super silly I loved it)

Teen titans, Robin today, Batman tomorrow 2004. Issues 17 to 19 — establish how tim doesn’t wanna be Batman

His whole Red Robin run. Honestly I think this is the most important out of all because it established how Tim’s mind works, especially when faced with grief. My fav issues are from 9 to 12 and 17 to 26. But if you can read it all, better!

The new 52 run Teen titans

Robin war from 2015

Rise of Batman, issue 934 to 940 are my favs

And lastly: Knight Terrors: Robin #1 & 2. Explores Jason’s and Tim’s duo when they find themselves alone and have to rely on each other to escape the nightmare they find themselves in

Special mention:

DC PRIDE: Tim Drake Special (2022) #1 — talks about his relationship with Bernard and its really cute 🥹

[momachan]

"Mr. Nightwing... formerly known as the Red X. And Robin. And I think maybe Batman for a minute, but I can't prove it yet, still... Red X! The mysterious death-masked man in black that spawned not one but two copycats until, here at Titans Academy, once again-- The Red X was reborn!"

Teen Titans Academy (2021) Vol. 1: X Marks the Spot.

[mapleymood]

Finished ten books total this month, which I'm pretty sure is more than I finished in the first six months of 2024. Also split nearly evenly between comics and everything else, which was cool! In reading order (vs. stackability):

A Grief Observed - C.S. Lewis

The Trip to Echo Spring: On Writers and Drinking - Olivia Laing

A Heart That Works - Rob Delaney

Batman: Wayne Family Adventures, Vol. 1 - CRC Payne and Starbite

Slow Horses - Mick Herron (reread)

Batman and Robin: Book One - Peter J. Tomasi and Patrick Gleason

Batman & Robin: Batman Reborn - Grant Morrison, Frank Quitely, and Philip Tan

The North Water - Ian McGuire

Batman & Robin: Batman vs. Robin - Grant Morrison, Cameron Stewart, and Andy Clarke

The Emperor's Winding Sheet - Jill Paton Walsh

[padme789]

This story is rated E

Warnings: Graphic Depictions Of Violence Relationships: Robin Buckley/Nancy Wheeler, Minor or Background Relationship(s) Characters: Nancy Wheeler, Robin Buckley, Steve Harrington, Eddie Munson, Dustin Henderson, Lucas Sinclair, Erica Sinclair, Maxine “Max” Mayfield, Mike Wheeler, Eleven | Jane Hopper, Will Byers, Jonathan Byers, Argyle (Stranger Things), The Party (Stranger Things), Holly Wheeler, Additional Tags: Background Relationships, Bisexual Nancy Wheeler, Lesbian Robin Buckley, Canon Compliant, Past Relationship(s), Period Typical Attitudes, Robin Buckley has ADHD, Dungeons & Dragons References, Graphic Description, Blood and Violence, Canon-Typical Violence, Open Relationships, Friends With Benefits, Eddie Munson Lives, Maxine “max” Mayfield has recovered, Robin Buckley & Steve Harrington Are Best Friends, Robin Buckley & Steve Harrington & Dustin Henderson Friendship, Steve Harrington & Nancy Wheeler Friendship, Eddie Munson & Nancy Wheeler are Best Friends, Post-Stranger Things 4 Vol. 2, Time Jump, Pathfinder 1st Edition, Blades in the Dark, Fluff and Smut, Dirty Talk, Vaginal Fingering, Grinding, Established Relationship, Multiple Orgasms, Semi-Public Sex, Phone Sex, Cunnilingus Series: Part 3 of A Strange Universe Chapters: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 12 - 13 - 14 - 15 - 16  - 17 - 18 - 19 - 20 - INTERLUDE - 22 - not finished Steamy Fluff: 1 - 8 - 18 - 19 - INTERLUDE Good stuff: 5 - 7 - 13 - 18 -19

CHAPTER 22 Excerpt: A throat cleared as the door to the building finally shut.

She’s the same and completely different all at once. Nancy and Robin watch each other closely. She should have considered what she wore to pick Holly up from school. The brunette looked at the blonde, and the blonde looked back just as intense. Her hair still shagged, which was not a surprise. Robin liked to keep some consistency to her appearance. Tailored corduroy, a vest, and a jacket. Her makeup’s less heavy, but this was the woman she etched permanently into her mind the day she watched Robin pack away the last bit of the things she kept at Nancy’s previous residence.

“Hi,” said Nancy.

“Hi,” responded Robin.

PART I: “The goal … should not be to destroy Vecna … but to stop the evil plans carried out by his mortal servants.” – Vecna Reborn

It’s the winter break of 1988. Now a junior in college, Nancy has not returned to Hawkins since the spring break of 1987. Nancy and Robin decide to revisit the situationship started as friends with benefits before the summer of 1986.

INTERLUDE: Relationships are complicated, and not defining the obvious would twist anyone to knots. Good or bad life moves on. PART II: “Once upon a time lost to history lived a mortal man called Vecna … Vecna schemed, laying audacious plans designed to transform himself into a true god” – Die Vecna Die. It’s the late fall of 1999, and with one midday phone call Nancy’s back in Hawkins. A relationship starts again, had it ever stopped? Ask their friends, ask their families, they’ll all say no with a roll of their eyes. Because Nancy and Robin might twist and turn, but there was no end in sight, yet.

or What if Nancy and Robin were canon for season 5 and They also play Tabletop

[cartoonus-maximus]

And of course, my reading bingo! According to goodreads, I read a total of 48 books: 29 of them were comics, 13 were conventional books, and 6 were audiobooks.

I also started an essay book ("Languages of Truth: Essays 2003 - 2020" by Salman Rushdie), but I haven't finished it yet; I got busy reading two other essay books ("All of the Marvels" and "the Tolkien Reader") and Rushie just fell through the cracks. But I've enjoyed what I've read from the book so far, and I return to it every so often, so I'll finish him eventually.

(Unlike Chekov, who is languishing on my shelf, but let's not talk about it.)

Here's the full list of what I read in 2024, including a few reviews I left on goodreads:

🦸‍♂️ DC Comics:

Batman: A Lot of Li'l Gotham

Batman and Robin, Vol 1: Father and Son

Doom Patrol: the Silver Age, Vol 1

Red Hood and the Outlaws, Vol 1: Dark Trinity [review]

Red Hood and the Outlaws, Vol 2: Who is Artemis?

Red Hood and the Outlaws, Vol 3: Bizarro Reborn [review]

Red Hood and the Outlaws, Vol 4: Good Night Gotham [review]

Red Hood: Outlaw, Vol 1: Requiem for an Archer [review]

Red Hood: Outlaw, Vol 2: Prince of Gotham

Red Hood: Outlaw, Vol 3: Generation Outlaw [review]

Red Hood: Outlaw, Vol 4: Unspoken Truths [review]

Robin War (crossover event compilation)

Robins: Being Robin [review]

Teen Titans #4: Robin [review]

🤖 Five Nights at Freddy's: Tales from the Pizzaplex

#1: "Lally's Game" [review]

#2: "HAPPS" [review]

#3: "Somniphobia" [review]

#4: "Submechanophobia" [review]

#5: "The Bobbiedots Conclusion" [review]

#6: "Nexie" [review]

🦸‍♂️ Marvel Comics:

She-Hulk, Vol 1: Jen, Again

She-Hulk, Vol 2: Jen of Hearts

She-Hulk, Vol 3: Girl Can't Help It

Spider-Punk: Battle of the Banned [review]

Thor & Loki: Double Trouble

🧙‍♂️ Tolkien works:

"the Hobbit"

"the Lord of the Rings: the Fellowship of the Ring"

"the Lord of the Rings: the Two Towers"

"the Lord of the Rings: the Return of the King"

"the Tolkien Reader"

📚 Misc. Other Books:

"All of the Marvels: a Journey to the Ends of the Biggest Story Ever Told" by Douglas Wolk

"Fully Known: An Invitation to True Intimacy with God" by Mo Aiken

"Murtagh" by Christopher Paolini

"The Doll People" by Martin, Godwin, and Selznick

"The Elizabethan Zoo: a Book of Beasts Both Fabulous and Authentic" by Pliny the Elder and others [review]

"The Lost Apothecary" by Sarah Penner [review]

"The Importance of Being Earnest" playscript by Oscar Wilde

"The Nightward" by R.S.A. Garcia [review]

📚 Misc. Other Comics, Manga, and Graphic Novels:

A Man and His Cat, Vol 1 (from Square Enix Manga) [review]

Betty Boop (from Dynamite Entertainment)

Garfield: Pet Force Special #1 (from Boom! Studios)

Garfield, Vol 9: His 9 Lives (from Boom! Studios)

the Hobbit graphic novel adaptation (from Ballantine Books)

Monster High: Howliday Haunt (from IDW) [review]

Monster High Pride 2024 (from IDW) [review]

Wires and Nerve, Vol 1 (from Square Fish)

Wires and Nerve, Vol 2: Gone Rogue (from Square Fish)

Zodiac Starforce Vol 1: By the Power of Astra (from Dark Horse)

[spiderwing-nightman]

Here's more like I promised

Q&A: ‘Midnighter’: Steve Orlando seeks to define DC’s sexy, enigmatic gay hero by Oliver Sava

“Batwoman is Back… as a Lesbian” by John Kreiser

“It’s strange Superman was ever straight to begin with” by John Paul Brammer 

Tim Drake: Robin (and the 2022 Tim Drake Pride Special)

“DC Comics' Newest Trans And Nonbinary Superhero Might Heal Our Inner Child” by Ian Kumamoto

DC’s Spirit World Series Has Perfectly Addressed the Issues of Gender Identity and Dead Naming by John Dodge

Spirit World by Alyssa Wong and Haining

Who Is Alysia Yeoh in DC Comics? She'll Be the First Trans Character in a DC Film by Callie (Carlos) Cadorniga

Dead Boy Detectives (2023) #6 by Pornsak Pichetshote and Jeff Stokely

DC Pride 2024, “Steeling Time” by Jamila Rowser and ONeillJones

DC Pride 2024, “Lessons in Astral Projection” by Nicole Maines and Jordan Gibson

DC Pride 2024, “Spaces” by Phil Jiminex and Giolio Macaione

DC Pride 2022, "Finding Batman" by Kevin Conroy (it feels fitting to end with Batman's most iconic voice being queer. Maybe Fredric Wertham was right and Batman is gay, after all the man who gave him his voice is (even if Wertham would have hated that))

I used panels from:

The Sandman #12 by Neil Gaiman and Chris Bachalo, 1990

Batman #181 by Robert Kanigher and Sheldon Moldoff, 1966

The Sandman #21 by Neil Gaiman and Mike Dringenberg

The Sandman #10 by Neil Gaiman and Mike Dringenberg

The Sandman #32 by Neil Gaiman and Shawn McManus, 1991

The Sandman #35 by Neil Gaiman and Shawn McManus, 1992

The Sandman #37 by Neil Gaiman and Shawn McManus, 1992

Death: The Time of Your Life #1 by Neil Gaiman and Chris Bachalo, 1996

Death: The Time of Your Life #3 by Neil Gaiman and Chris Bachalo, 1996

The Flash (vol.2) #53 by William Messner-Loebs and Greg LaRocque, 1991

Batman: Urban Legends #6: “The Sum of Our Parts Chapter 3,” by Meghan Fitzmartin and Belén Ortega, 2021

Lazarus Planet: Legends Reborn #1:“The Envoy” by Alyssa Wong and Haining, 2023

Spirit World #2 by Alyssa Wong and Haining, 2023

Spirit World #6 by Alyssa Wong and Haining, 2023

DC Pride 2021 Cover

DC Pride 2022, “Bat’s in the Cradle” by Stephanie Phillips and Samantha Dodge

DC Pride 2022, “Up at Bat” by Jadzia Axelrod and Lynne Yoshii

DC Pride 2022, “The Hunt” by Dani Fernandez and Zoe Thorogood

DC Pride 2022, “Think of Me” by Ro Stein & Ted Brandt

(if I used panels starring a specific character, I wrote something about that character, especially if they weren't mentioned anywhere else in the reader)

I hope this is useful to someone, I love comic book history and the reason I started reading comics was actually because of the history of queerness in comic books, so I'll just be glad if one other person sees and enjoys this.

Resources for an Incomplete Queer History of DC Comics

About two months ago, for my final project in an elective I was taking about Queer History I researched a part of queer history that we didn't touch on in class and then compile resources and create a reader based on our topic. I chose to research Queerness in DC Comics. This project was very important to me and it kind of feels weird to just let it disappear into the ether, and I figured it might be appreciated here.

This history is very much incomplete (it focuses very much on the 80's and 90's and my own centers of knowledge, lingering on things I found interesting) and I'm sure there are people who have done it better, but I wanted to share it anyway. This is also very much meant to be a celebration of queerness and queerness in comics, so it shines a very nice light on DC that they may or may not deserve. Some of the resources I'm including here aren't in my final project because of either time and space constraints, or because they were a little too out there to include in a project that was meant to be read by someone who doesn't know much about comics (but many of those sources were referenced in the project because I wrote summaries of some sources if I couldn't find one that did the job for me), inversely, the parts of my project that I wrote myself aren't in here because I really want to share the resources I found for whoever else might be curious. It's organized more or less chronologically, I'm putting links wherever I can, and I'll put an asterisks next to some of the resources that require some more background knowledge, also any sources written in the same color text (that's not the default) were used together to write a summary source. I hope someone at least finds this useful or interesting.

“The Evolution of Queer Representation in DC Comics” by Alex Jaffe   (yes I know this is from DC's website, but it's a good overview)

The Free Love Experiment that Created Wonder-Woman by Noah Berlatsky

The Caped Crusade: The Rise and Fall of Nerd Culture by Glen Weldon (2016), “Panic and Aftermath (1948-1964)” (this whole book is very good)

The Comics Code of 1954

“Scholar Finds Flaws in Work by Archenemy of Comics” by Dave Itzkoff

Batman #181 (July, 1966) (everyone needs to read this a) because it's Poison Ivy's first comic and b) because Robin's horror at Batman kissing Poison Ivy (yes I know her kiss is poisonous) really gets rid of any heterosexuality they might have been trying to push)

“How Vertigo Changed Comics Forever” by Abraham Josephine Riesman

**“Monstrous Relationalities: The Horrors of Queer Eroticism and 'Thingness' in Alan Moore and Stephen Bissette's Swamp Thing” by Robin A. McDonald and Dan Vena

*“‘...And then what?’ Vertigo Comics’ Enigma” by Chloe Maveal

“Let’s Talk 90’s Vertigo, The Revolution it Started, and How Marvel Ruined it” by David Harth

**“‘One of the Things They Definitely Are is Queer’: an Interview with Rachel Pollack” by Alex Dueben

“DC Comics shuts down Vertigo imprint a year after relaunch” by Christie d’Zurilla

“Diversity is Part of Very Soul of Neil Gaiman’s Sandman” by Marc Burrows

“As Above, So Below: Actions and Reactions of the Sandman and Trans Representation” by Joanna Marsh

“Queer Superhero History: The First Trans Character in Comics” by Jessica Plummer

“Neil Gaiman and Dave McKean: how we made The Sandman” interview by Phil Hoad

“‘I can’t do superheroes, but I can do gods’: Neil Gaiman on comics, diversity and casting Death” interview by John Harris Dunning

“The Sandman: A Beginner's Guide” by Scott Meslow

DC Pride 2023, “A Tribute to Rachel Pollack”

"SuperGay: Depictions of Homosexuality in Mainstream Superhero Comics" by Kara Kvaran (2014) in Comics as History, Comics as Literature: Roles of the Comic Book in Scholarship, Society, and Entertainment edited by Annessa Ann Babic 

The Flash (vol. 2) #53, August 1991: The Pied Piper comes out

“Death talks about Life” by Neil Gaiman and Dave McKean

DC Pride: Through the Ages, “Introduction” by Benjamin Le Clear

Comics Code History: The Seal of Approval

“A History of Queer Characters in DC Comics” by Les Fabian Brathwaite

“Catwoman comes out as bisexual” by Henry Hanks

“Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy: A History” by Brian Cronin

“The new Superman comes out as bisexual in an upcoming comic” by Scottie Andrew

“Wonder Woman is Getting the Queer Romance She Deserves in New DC Comic” by Mey Rude

“DC Announces ‘DC Pride’ Anthology Comic to Arrive June 8, and More!” DC Press Release

The DC Book of Pride

There is more, so check the reblogs (I'll also include the issues I used panels from in the reblogs)

[fantastic-nonsense]

i don't know if you've already made a post about this but what comic(s) do you think have the best characterisation of cassandra cain and dick grayson?

My instinctive response to this ask was to just answer "Prodigal and Batgirl (2000)" and be on my way. Instead, I took a little bit more time to think about what my answer should be and what information might be useful to people looking for comics featuring a well-characterized Dick and Cass. So, with that said:

Dick:

Robin: Year One (2000)

New Teen Titans/Tales of the Teen Titans (1980 & 1984)

Batman: Year Three (1989)

Batman: Prodigal (1997)

Titans Vol. 1 (1999)

Nightwing/Birds of Prey: The Hunt for Oracle (2000)

Gotham Knights (2000) #1-12

Peter Tomasi's run on Nightwing (1996)

Batman: The Black Mirror (2010)

Batman: Gates of Gotham (2011)

Listen. All of these comics have their flaws. Many of them feature dated and occasionally poor treatment of various characters/social issues. I'm still holding a grudge against Devin Grayson for her Nightwing run and will until the end of time, and thus the inclusion of Titans Vol. 1 and her first Gotham Knights arcs might seem a bit odd. But I also think this is a pretty solid list of comics that portray Dick in ways that feel consistent and faithful to his core characterization; they're also some of the comics that feature Dick at his best.

Cass:

Batgirl (2000): specifically the Puckett/Scott run (#1-37) and the Gabrych run (#38 & #58-73)

Bruce Wayne: Murderer?/Fugitive (2003)

Gates of Gotham (2011)

Tynion's run on Detective Comics (2016)

Batman and the Outsiders (2019)

Batgirl Vol. 1 was and continues to be the golden standard of how to portray Cass. She's never reached those heights again. Other comics featuring Cass wish they were Batgirl Vol. 1, but it was a true "lightning in a bottle" run that has yet to be replicated. That being said: Murderer/Fugitive (which takes place during Cass's Batgirl run) is great, and Gates of Gotham features the only solid pre-reboot Cass characterization post-Evil Cass arc.

Post-Flashpoint!Cass is a bit of a different animal, but within the context and limitations placed on her appearances until Dan Didio's departure from DC in 2020, she's best characterized and treated in Detective Comics Rebirth and Batman and the Outsiders.

Honorable mentions: these comics either weren't quite on the same level of "good characterization" to make the list or just didn't highlight the character as much as they could have, but I still really like what the creative team did with them in the space they were given:

Dick: Nightwing (1996) #6 (for being a fun depiction of Dick and Tim's early-days relationship), Teen Titans (2003) #6 (great characterization of Dick. So-so characterization of...several other characters), The Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul (I love Dick's characterization here, and it's one of my favorite Bat books, but he's just not in it all that much), and Batman & Robin (2009), which...I'll get into my complicated feelings about Morrison's B&R run some other time, but generally: I like Dick's characterization in this comic a lot in isolation. It becomes much more difficult to square, however, when you take everything else going on during the Reborn era into account.

Cass: Mariko Tamaki's Shadows of the Bat: The Tower (2021) event and "Sounds" short from the DC Asian Superhero Celebration (2021) anthology. They're nice and have some great Cass moments, but they're either too short (Sounds) or too focused on other characters/the overall plot (The Tower) to truly do her justice.

[umbrellajam]

Oooh, Tim + villains = unhappy Dick for the ask game?? 👀👀👀

hgkldjsfd okay, that one is mostly a collection of notes at this point about Nightwing having an unhappy front-row seat to various villains being Too Friendly with Robin!Tim, or hearing about it secondhand, and getting increasingly annoyed/protective about it.

Specifically inspired by reading Robin (Vol. 1) A Hero Reborn and just. Gawking incredulously at the weird, possessive way Shiva was constantly touching Tim. Like omg lady please, we get it, he’s an interesting toy you want to put your claws into, please let the 13-year-old boy have some PERSONAL SPACE 😭

But also by that instance of Ed Nygma going “NIGHTWING. Hated him since he wore PIXIE BOOTS. And ROBIN. Him I don’t hate. Okay kid, actually.”

And by the Gotham Knights issue where Tim manages to negotiate with Ivy, and she calls him ‘little sapling’ and tells him that in some ways he’s more of an adult than Batman, lol.

This draft snippet is re: Shiva, set sometime during Prodigal, I think.

“She sure is a piece of work,” Dick muttered. He absently rotated the arm she’d twisted damn near out of its socket at their first meeting. For the high trespass of walking toward her like some kind of dope, no less. He’d had good reason for being off his game, but that was no excuse for acting the part of a greenhorn - especially in front of the actual greenhorn Robin. “But hey, Bruce managed to pull the wool over her eyes.” Well enough to fool all three of them...but setting that aside. “And you got away from her unscathed, right?” Tim’s mouth twisted. “Yeah, because she didn’t take me seriously. Half the time she was more interested in petting me like some kind of cat.” Dick's head cocked. That wasn’t something the kid had mentioned before. And his tone… The few times he’d talked about Shiva, the mixed undercurrents of apprehension and anger had never been far beneath the surface of Tim’s voice. Now was no different. Dick swiveled the big chair around fully and made an exaggerated show of running his eyes over Tim, masking the real consideration behind the look. Tim’s brow was furrowed and - he wasn’t even looking at Dick, staring down at his shoes instead. One hand was rubbing his opposite shoulder, as if he was working out a knot. Or…chasing away the memory of another touch? The sting of Dick’s own anger was as hot and abrupt as it was patently useless. He wrestled it down. Locked it in a box. For a future meeting, maybe. “Weeeell, you are pretty small,” he said, aiming for light - and nailing it with the ease of long practice under far more strenuous conditions. “And fluffy. I can see how the mistake could be made. Have you thought about laying off the hair gel?” “Hardy-har-har, you’re hilarious,” Tim said flatly, but when he glanced up - ha - there was a little upward tug at the corner of his mouth.

[zahri-melitor]

Okay, looking at the current push for reprints among the Batfam kids, what is available (trying to round this up):

Dick: Nightwing Compendium #1, with Nightwing vol 1, Nightwing vol 2 1-25 plus extras (out 7 May 2024); Nightwing Compendium #2, with Nightwing vol 2 26-59 plus extras (out 20 May 2025)

Jason: DC Finest: Batman - Year One and Two, despite the name, this covers Batman #404-414 and 'Tec #571-581, which contains his post-Crisis origin story and most of his 'Tec appearances as Robin (out 5 November 2024); Under the Red Hood Deluxe, with Batman #635-650 and Lost Days (out 5 September 2023); RHATO 2011 Omnibus, #0-27 (out 13 May 2025)

Tim: Robin Compendium #1, with Robin I, II & III, Robin vol 2 #1-5 and a LOT of assorted early material from Alan Grant (out 23 July 2024)

Steph: Batgirl: Stephanie Brown Vol 1, with Batgirl vol 3 #1-12 (out 22 October 2024)

Cass: DC Finest: Nobody Dies Tonight, with Batgirl vol 1 #7-27 (out 8 April 2025)

Damian: Batman and Robin by Peter J. Tomasi Omnibus, with Batman & Robin vol 1 #22-24, Batman & Robin vol 2 #0-40 and extras (out 17 January 2023); Batman & Robin vol 1: Batman Reborn, with B&R vol 1 #1-6 (out 25 April 2023); Batman & Robin vol 2: Batman v Robin, with B&R vol 1 #7-12 (out 29 April 2025); Robin: Son of Batman by Patrick Gleason #1-13 (out 5 November 2024)

Barbara: Simone and Bedard's BOP runs have just finished a run of reprints in 2023 and are looping around to redo it again right now: Murder & Mystery BOP #56-67 (out 22 October 2024); Hero Hunters BOP #68-80 (out 6 May 2025); Fighters By Trade #81-91 (most recent 21 September 2021, look out for this one again); Progeny BOP #92-103 (out 26 March 2024); Whitewater #104-112 (out 5 July 2022); and The End of the Beginning #113-127 (out 21 February 2023); the Batgirl vol 4 run had omnis in 2021 and 2022 covering the whole run.

Helena B: the same BOP reprints as Barbara, also has Robin III in Robin Compendium #1.

Maps: Gotham Academy vol 1 #1-18 (out 9 May 2023)

Duke: All-Star Batman by Scott Snyder, with #1-14 (out 10 September 2024)

Jean-Paul: okay JPV doesn't have anything for Azrael. But Knightfall gets reprints every 5 years like clockwork and we just had a 2023 omnibus, so I think that counts for him.

There is a massive push to get everyone's major solos/personal teams into print at the moment, to my eye, with the big gaps being actually getting Red Robin back into print, finally collecting Huntress vol 1 for Helena Bertinelli, and then like...actually continuing the reprints in the big projects (Robin, early BOP).

[evasive-anon]

@skykichi, I am so sorry but this ask activated my trap card and I am about to pop the fuck off and list just WAY too many recs. I have tried to give a good snapshot of what each offers so you can make an informed decision on which appeals to you the most.

General Tim Recs

Robin Vol. 1 Reborn/ Vol 2 Triumphant

Kinda like a classic introduction option for Tim. These are two collection books for Tim Drake robin content. Tim was the first Robin to be given standalone comics but these original issues also came out in the 90s so they will be the most dated content I drop on this rec list.

Vol. 1 Reborn is focused on Tim training to be the new Robin and coming into the mantle. This book is Batman #455-457, Detective Comics #618-621, and Robin #1-5. Also, if you want to die playing a party game take a shot every time they show the Jason suit memorial. This includes him training with Lady Shiva and taking on King Snake.

Vol 2 Triumphant - now Tim is in Gotham and he's Robin. For a bit he still fighting King Snake but now with Batman and Huntress by his side but this really comes into its own when the Joker breaks out of Arkham when Batman isn't around. I feel like some of things I wanna say about this book are even more fun to see as surprise but there is a point where a body shows up in the morgue and its some guy who's been beaten and murdered and dressed in Tim's costume and its like, SPICY. Joker even sings the OG version of the 'Jingle Bells, Batman Smells' ditty. This one collects Batman #465, 467-469, Robin II #1-4, and Robin III #1-6.

Note: I was just gonna put a cool panel of Tim from vol 2 down here but instead I'm going to spotlight this Tim look. His hair looks like he shoved his fork into an electrical socket and he's wearing a fucking t-shirt over a button up. What is happening here??? He wears a shirt over a button up MULTIPLE times. Why???

Note: Is Tim a nerd?? Tim is pulling invites to real parties and adventuring parties. Get you a man who can do both. 😭

Red Robin: Collision

The fun option. This is a heavy hitter! I would say the entire Red Robin run is a banger but this is the climax of the story. Tim just betrayed the League of Assassins and Ra’s plans to get even by killing everyone Tim cares about. Will you be starting the story in out of order if you begin here? Yeah, but honestly, I think it’s OK to start with dessert sometimes. Treat yourself. This is Timbit out there flexing his skills not just as a fighter but as a tactician and the latter bit I honestly feel like that is the real sweet spot of his character. This covers issues #9-12 of Red Robin (2009).

Recs for Fanon’s Favorite Moments

A Lonely Place of Living

You know when people bring up Timmy as evil gun Batman? This is the story that made it happen. When Tim escapes Dr. Oz and tries to reunite with Batman he unpleasantly surprised to discover the Batman he finds is actually an brutal alternate future version of himself, who intends to kill Batwoman before she ruins young Tim’s life. Also has some great Steph content and also touches on Tim's relationship with Jason cause he spends like a year in the bad timeline desperately tracking down every wild hint or trace to find Jay. This is also a collection book, it has detective comics #963-968 and detective comics annual #1.

Red Robin: Council of Spiders

This is the portion of the Red Robin comic run where Timbuktu loses his spleen AND blows up all the league of assassin headquarters so it’s. 2 for 1 fanon fav special. This is over issues #5-8. I also just really LOVE how Tim wakes up in Issue 5 post surgery after being wounded in the LoA base and sees the Lazarus Pit and legit thinks he was like dunked in it and resurrected and starts beating the shit out of all the assassins and his internal dialogue is like 'I must already being going insane, I can feel the burning within' and then one of the guys is just like, 'you didnt get dunked please stop ripping your stitches out' and like WOW. Embarrassing. When I said Red Robin was a banger run I fucking meant it. Tbh main rec from this is the Red Robin comics even if I think it looks like Tim is wearing a condom on his head.

Robin Issues 134-139

These comics are where Timwise Gamgee faked having an uncle in order to avoid adoption. I really think I should make a standalone post for this like the Titans Tower incident because like it’s so different than the fanon version. Bruce is very proud of the job Tim did on it and volunteered to help him with the plan after he figured it out. Tim only ended up going to the manor cause Bludhaven blew up and derailed his work. BRUCE WAS GONNA MAKE HIM A KITTED OUT ROBIN NEST. This was just a subplot over those comics but it was an amazing one and honestly the canon reaction of Bruce is ICONIC. He's just like, 'you little scamp, great work.'

Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker

Not a comic but a cartoon movie rec. In Batman Beyond there was a storyline where Tim was brainwashed and tortured by the Joker and it comes up in fanon cause it was a fucking traumatizing event for innocent children watching a Batman cartoon. Hey WB Kids, pay my fucking therapy bills you assholes.

Recs for Tim with Jason or Damian

I almost wrote Tim with Jason/Damian for the subtitle before my brain caught up and realized that meant something very different than the and/or I intended.💀

Robin War

This story has everything for the batboys: The Court of Owls are fucking around, Dick in his spy era as Spyral, wake up Gotham new law just dropped and now being Robin is illegal and punishable by police robot??, Duke Thomas joins the crew, Damian is mean af and won't stop calling Jason and Time names, all of the boys causing trouble and drama and its great fucking time.

I think Robin War is broken into 9 different comic issues: Robin War # 1, Grayson #15, Detective Comics (2011) #47, We Are Robin #7, Red Hood/Arsenal #7, Robin: Son of Batman #7, Gotham Academy #13, Teen Titans (2014) #15, and Robin War #2 in that order. The Robin War collection book should have all of these inside.

Knight Terrors: Robin

The undynamic duo, Jason and Tim, are stuck in a nightmare realm together. There are only two issues of Knight Terrors: Robin, they were part of a larger Knight Terrors event for all of DC. I'd say the characterizations were pretty OK for a larger event and it has some cool moments. I think it would work well for someone just starting with the characters in canon. I actually have physical comics of these two issues cause I love some Jay and Tim content.

Robins: Being Robin

All the robins get together to have a meeting and settle the debate on whether Robin was actually any good for them. The meeting kicks off heavy with each one of them giving their perspective on how they came to be Robin and what it meant but before they can get to the heart of the matter together they are interrupted by a new enemy who claims to be the actual first Robin- and she has a score to settle against all of them. Tim teams up with Dick, Jason, Steph, and Damian in this one. This comic may not be loved by everyone but to me it has everything. All the robins hanging out, Tim wanting to murder, Tim being kind, Nightwing yelling at Bruce and saving Bruce, Jason and Damian being extra for no fucking reason. They even remembered Stephanie exists and was a Robin! The Robins: Being Robin collection book has Robins (2022) comics #1-6 within it and it’s $16.37 on Amazon. Or at least it is for me in the US.

Note: this last panel sometimes shows up randomly in places of all of squad trying to pull Batman off of Tim and its from this comic.

Bonus Rec

Gotham Knights (2000), specifically issue #1.

This isn’t a Tim only recommendation, or even a bat boys recommendation, this is just an interesting comic. Batman is investigating a case where a young boy was orphaned after his parents were killed- but Bruce just can’t seem to figure out who did it. Oracle, Nightwing, and Robin (Tim) on the other hand already know who is responsible- they just don’t know how to help B realize it. Also, Nightwing calls Alfred ‘Mom’ in this one. The whole run is super cool for batfam content, but since its from 2000 so it won't have Jason or Damian. Well maybe Jason in the form of his memorial display or his habit of haunting the narrative in his absence but no Damian at all.

Bonus Note:

Jason and Tim I think you will get a solid vibe for from the comics I list. Damian and Tim do have a complicated relationship, and I don't have a single comic or story rec that really sums it up. Cdelphiki has a great post on their starting dynamic here with comic issues listed. They don't really hate each other but fanon did get the initial tension pretty right. Mostly cause Bruce isn't great at parenting but also just fundamentally having an assassin kid raised in a cult join a large family would be complicated. There is a panel in Batman and Robin by Morrison where Damian admits he wanted Tim to accept him but he's also kinda asshole about it lmao. I can't remember which issue its in and honestly I don't like Morrison so I don't feel like going back to find it right now but if you're really interested in this one let me know and I might.

Hi, any recs for someone obsessed with batfam fics and looking to read canon?? There's so many series literally any guidance would be appreciated :DD

Hey @skykichi, before I give a rec let me get a gauge of what might interest you most. Have you already watched some of the animated series or are you coming in purely with a fanon background?

Also if you willing to divulge, do you have a favorite member of the batfam or a favorite dynamic? The batfam is pretty big so it’s rare you get even representation of all the characters in a single comic or storyline so if you have a preference I can try and pick one that leans your way.