#gotham criticism

[gotham-is-the-best-worst-show]

Talking About The Isabella Arc part 2

We know about Oswald's issues. We see the way he is underestimated and mocked by people who don’t know what he’s capable of. We see his codependent relationship with his mom. We see the way he tries to befriend Jim.

We know Oswald desperately wants deep and authentic companionship (romantic and platonic) because he feels extremely rejected by the world, and after his mother's death, I assume that his mother being kidnapped, tortured and killed feels to Oswald as if it is punishment for ever thinking he could be loved.

The one person who ever loved him truly was killed in such a cruel way. To Oswald's heart, he probably rationalizes that that is exactly the reason why she was killed. I’d imagine that Oswald feels even more insecure than he was before. Two hundredfold more after his father's murder.

Oswald falls in love with Ed. It makes sense. He and Ed are very similar, they have great chemistry, and Ed supports him.

I understand this. I do not however understand how one-sided the Isabella arc is. It seems purposefully written, at times, just to make Ed look irrational, and I really do not understand why.

I feel as though the audience is supposed to be on Oswald's side, and feel for him, while feeling that Ed is overreacting. Why? I don’t see what the point of it is, and it does both Oswald and Ed's characters a great disservice, I feel.

With my shipper goggles on, Ed's continued rejection of Oswald didn’t make any sense to me. They seemed very well suited to each other. Ed's reasons for never being romantically interested in Oswald seemed mostly non-existent.

And with how deeply he obviously cares for Oswald, it’s very easy for someone to be frustrated at him for not reciprocating Oswald's feelings. But when I take the goggles off, I realize how kind of offensive that perspective is.

When I try to put myself in Ed's shoes, I understand completely. Ed, like Oswald, desires deep companionship. The first girl who ever dated him (which he worked very hard to woo, he even killed a guy for her) fulfilled this need when he felt very alone and rejected in his life, but he accidentally killed her.

Ed finds a friend who gives him allyship, power and understanding. He works as Oswald's chief of staff, spending all his days doing things about him and for him.

He is given a second chance to redeem the relationship he ruined, and this time, she is even more fit for him. The problems with his relationship with Kristen are amended: Kristen still didn’t really appreciate Ed's quirks, and she (for good reason) distrusted him about Tom's disappearance.

Isabella likes his quirks and his riddles, and she completely trusts him to not harm her, even when knowing everything about his murders. (Yes, Isabella is sinister for quite a few reasons, but this is from Ed's perspective)

But that friend who is also his boss tries to scare Isabella away. And he tries to manipulate him into thinking he will kill Isabella.

(I personally feel that part in particular is really fucked up. If someone tried to convince me of something like that, I would flip out. I have OCD so it’s very harmful to convince me that I have no control over my actions.)

His friend then kills his girlfriend. Not only did he kill his second chance at love and redemption, but Oswald shows that to him, Ed is as much a pawn as anyone else in his life. From Ed's perspective, Ed is not special to him, he is only an object to be manipulated into doing what Oswald wants.

Oswald did that to this man who saved his life when he nursed him back to health, who went up against Butch to prove Oswald was loved, and again went up against Butch to prove to Oswald how much he means to him. He works for him day in and day out, and this is what Oswald does to him? All the sacrifices Ed made wasn’t enough, he had to take his girlfriend too? He had to plant doubt in Ed's head that he can’t be with a woman because he’d kill her?

Not only that, but Oswald's motives are romantic. He didn’t just treat Ed like his loved one didn’t matter, that his choices in life don’t matter, but he did it because he, supposedly, 'lOoOoOves' Ed. What a sick joke. What an absolutely dehumanizing insult.

I thought that Ed's accusations of selfishness were random and hypocritical, but even if they are hypocritical, I understand now.

Ed thought he was special to Oswald. He thought that he would not be subject to Oswald's cruelty like the rest of Oswald's goons, he thought that Oswald cared for him, was his true friend. But it turns out, (in Ed's mind) Oswald doesn’t care about Ed's feelings either. There is nothing Ed could do to make Oswald care enough about him to not kill the people closest to him for his own personal desires.

The person he tirelessly worked to befriend, who he fell in love with (platonic or romantic) is in fact a chasmous void that is not capable of reciprocating true caring.

And Oswald thought it would work. He thought he could just manipulate Ed and kill Isabella, and Ed would be his. He thought that he could just treat him like his true emotions didn’t matter and that would work. He REALLY thinks that poorly of him. He thinks it’s okay to use the person he 'loves' like that as long as Ed wouldn’t find out.

And imagine, just imagine how angry Ed must feel, how stupid he must feel that he really thought this cold blooded crimelord would care for him special. Imagine how regretful he feels that he did all this for Oswald, only to be used like he’s not even a human being, just a pretty thing for Oswald to play with.

And Oswald thinks saying he loves him makes it all better? He thinks that that doesn’t make Ed feel even more disrespected and objectified? Really? The fact that he doesn’t see how that makes it worse just goes to solidify in Ed's mind that Oswald is too selfish to ever truly care for him.

And as he’s about to be killed, he goes and tells Ed he 'made' him, same as when Fish told him? That he was nothing until she made him someone? It’s so shamelessly slimy.

If I was Ed, I would be livid. I would be heartbroken.

God, I wish we could have seen more of Ed's internal thought process. All we saw was one-dimensional anger, and it was so not fair. That’s so much more boring. There are so many things that could have been done to show Ed's side a bit more, and I’m disappointed that it didn’t happen.

Again, it’s easy to look at Ed's behavior and berate him for his internalized homophobia and repression, but let's face it: Even if Ed were in love with Oswald (which I think he was), he doesn’t owe Oswald anything at all. It’s completely his choice. Just because Oswald is a sad lonely little uwu gay baby doesn’t mean he needs to reciprocate.

No one, no matter how in love and desperate they are, and how bad they need to be accepted, is owed your love. That’s true of anyone.

If Ed was a woman, and Oswald killed Isabella to have Ed all to himself, it would be a VERY different story. There’s no way anyone could not see Oswald's predatory behavior if the genders were different. You see what I’m saying?

This is not at all a nygmobblepot hate post, if you try to say that, I will block you. I wouldn’t care so much if I didn’t love nygmobblepot with all my heart. It’s why I would want their chemistry to really shine.

[emo-batboy]

✨ Two tickets to see 💣 Barbenheimer 💖 please ✨

[95-6qrsk2rx9uq42069nnnnnjthewolf]

i think tim is high maintenance the way a boarder collie or austrialian shepherd is. like you have to make sure they're not only given space to expend energy but you have to specifically let them get the herding instinct out and challenge them intellectually or they start destroying ur home

[disniq]

[Original post here, but I felt this deserved it's own @bloodyentrails]

IT DOES!!

Batman #138 preview

I was talking to @thekangarou last night about how Bruce's insistence here that Jason move away and find a "normal" life and fall in love and it's not a punishment, Jason, even if I'm not actually giving you a choice in any of it feels almost like forced heteronormativity too, like.

This is the asylum for hysterical women; this is the convertion therapy for the queer kid you can't accept; this is lobotomising your mentally ill son because you can't learn to handle his PTSD symptoms.

[bruciemilf]

Somebody tell me if this is a bad take, or if my love for Bruce is causing my objective brain to glitch, but-- something about advertising Batman, a hero who's very popular for being good with children, for being NURTURING with children, a bad father kinda defeats the whole purpose of what he's supposed to represent.

Batman is a protector; He protects people the world (and especially law enforcement) does not care about. That's literally the point of him.

Something about marketing " you can be incredibly violent to people you care about! And Its fine, because you care about them even if you abuse them, and that's what matters!" towards people, but especially men and young boys, is REALLY fucked up to me.

[aslightaddity]

Just me? Cool-

[lil-gingerbread-queen]

Bruce: The most Nepo Baby of the Nepo Babies

Type of day when he pretends he has a hangover to not deal with their bs. The peace inside the company is all Lucius works.

He does not accept criticism.

The Gotham Knights' hoodie is Dick's or Jason's, and was in the kitchen that morning when Bruce ran late for the meeting.

Rip to the (paid) intern that was terrified to bring documents to THE Bruce Wayne and found themselves stuck in his office, listening to him telling stories about his kids for hours.

"I don't understand why we need to make more money, we're already rich." (he's talking about the highers up)

Just a bunch of doodled memes of how I believe Bruce Wayne acts with his company. He is not a capitalist, he doesn't care about making more profit and doesn't understand finance.

If you think Brucie Wayne is just an act, talk to Lucius Fox, who has to endure Bruce' antics at WE. The man whines like a child about having to speak to any shareholders, he has to be dragged to meetings. In Bruce's eyes, his job is "using the company's money to improve the people's life", "talking about his kids" and "being a pain in the ass of the highers up". If someone is trying to kill Bruce Wayne, 50% of chances some WE shareholder or board member ordered the kill because they are tired of him stopping them from playing the game of capitalism. His other employees love him, tho. There aren't janitors as well treated than the ones working for Wayne.

[thecruellestmonth]

HISTORY MADE: Bruce Wayne Says "I Love You" to Jason Todd for the first time EVER

It is an historic occasion! In Batman (2016) #138 by writer Chip Zdarsky, Bruce Wayne says "I love you" to his son Jason Todd for the first time in forty (40) years of comics publication. In fact, Bruce says it not just once, but two (2) whole times!

This is also the first time that any of Jason's oddly long series of parents has been depicted saying "I love you" to him.

We do so love an involved parent who openly communicates his feelings about his child. Truly, nobody can shatter expectations like BATMAN!

Now every time someone says "I love you" to Jason, we all can look back at this milestone moment. A first only happens once, and this is now and forever Bruce's first "I love you" to Jason in comics history.

[jackler1o1o]

Y’all parallel between Tylor the kid Jason saved In Urban Legends who’s dad drugged him and his mom into behaving and Bruce drugging Jason into submission in Gotham War, I don’t know where I’m going with this but just thinking about the parallels and how Jason killed Tylor’s dad when he found out what he was doing to him and than Jason’s dad goes and does the exact same thing (but arguably worse) to him

[shyjusticewarrior]

Tim Drake stans who got mad at Knight Terrors Robin and Batman #137 fascinate me. Cause they're fans of Tim but the version of him that exists in their heads is an unbearable asshole.

[gotham-is-the-best-worst-show]

Talking About The Isabella Arc part 1

CW: Helluvaboss discussion

I hate for one of my first posts on here to be negative, but I feel so mad that we were pitted against Ed in the whole Isabella situation.

I really wish that we would have got to see Ed's side of the story. I felt like the whole time, we were so disproportionately seeing it from Oswald's perspective, that it really was unfair to Ed as a character.

I know that Oswald is an extremely important character to the show, and Ed's character is usually an accessory to Oswald, but . . . As a Riddler kinnie, it’s so unfair.

The thing about me is I love fictional relationships in which both characters are equally bad people, doing equally selfish things to each other. It’s like candy to me, it’s so interesting to explore and write about, and it’s always exciting.

And that is one of my favorite parts about Oswald and Ed's dynamic, that they are equals. When one of them has the upperhand, the other will eventually come out on top.

I think that their power dynamic is very compelling. Oswald helped to begin Ed's criminal career, and Ed seems lost without his guidance. But also Oswald is hopelessly in love with Ed and will always be waiting for the day Ed reciprocates.

I feel that they both love each other so much for reasons that are selfish. Oswald loves Ed for the same reason Fish Mooney loved Oswald: she 'made' him. Ed loves Oswald because he gives him a sense of identity he can’t have on his own.

I really hate the way that gay men who are in unrequited love are sometimes so infantilized by the framing of the narrative. I’m thinking about the character of Stolas in Hellavaboss (I despise that I have to mention that show).

In the beginning of Helluvaboss, the show is a lot more honest about Stolas' morality and selfishness as a character than it gets as it goes on.

In the beginning, we see Stolas as an entitled noble who cheats on his wife with an imp, using Blitzo for his own shallow sexual gratification while being belittling to Blitzo, uncaring about the effect this has on his daughter until she brings to his attention the way it damages their relationship.

Blitzo, too, is shown to be cold and callous to Stolas for reasons that are understandable, but also it is clear he is using Stolas too, for Stolas' grimoire.

I think that this was a good set up.

I was really hoping for Stella to be a somewhat sympathetic character who is lashing out because she is being betrayed by her husband who she loved, because I am very much not into the way that (often) queer-created media or queer fanon likes to demonize women who get in the way of the gay ships. (Examples: hatred for and abuse of Harley Quinn because she gets in the way of BatJokes, hatred for and abuse of Lizzie Midford because she gets in the way of SebaCiel)

This sort of thing happens with any ship, that people hate certain characters for getting in the way of their ship, but it’s just annoying to me the misogynist undertones when it comes to women characters. (Saying Lizzie deserves to die because she has an annoyingly high voice . . . Um . . . She’s a preteen girl . . . Of course she has a high voice . . . It’s okay to not like her voice, but most people who say that obviously hate her more for being a ship cockblock)

It’s so much more interesting to be able to have sympathy for all sides.

And also, I was hoping to watch a show that is honest about its own character's immorality, and lets us feel for them anyway. No moralizing bullshit to only make us feel for the 'good guys' and hate the 'bad guys'. Just a show about horrible people all around that we can nonetheless relate to and enjoy.

But as it goes on . . . Things fall apart.

The show started to frame Stolas in an infantilizing light, making Blitzo out to be the villain only because Stolas is in love with him, which is so fucked up, because Blitzo doesn’t have to love Stolas, or anyone at all. That’s just kind of true of anyone. Nobody has to be in love with anyone, even with people who they are in a sexual relationship with, and that’s a fact of life.

Even though Blitzo obviously has romantic feelings for Stolas, that’s also not an excuse. He doesn’t owe Stolas anything. This whole relationship was based off of mutual selfish gain, and so, it’s really not Blitzo's responsibility that Stolas caught feelings.

It seems to me a very easy way to manipulate the audience. Because the majority of the fanbase of Helluvaboss are queer people and they know very well what it feels like to be in unrequited love (often with a straight person, or else someone who is struggling to be honest about their identity), they are more likely to sympathize with Stolas.

And Stella is demonized completely, so she’s just a bitch who abuses Stolas because she’s a bitch and does the bitchiest things the writers can think of to make you hate her.

All this would be fine if the show stopped doing this weird thing where it tries to retcon its own characters' morality and manipulate the audience into thinking characters who are horrible people are worthy of sympathy and love and other characters who are also horrible people aren’t deserving of sympathy and love because of the manipulative framing which screws with the plot and makes the characters uninteresting pity-bait or hate-bait.

This is something that Gotham does sometimes, but it’s not such a glaring issue, I feel.

[dolldefaced]

batman #138 / the yellow wallpaper - charlotte perkins gilman

i saw this post by @disniq in the tags and became possessed

[fandom-hoard]

The Joker calling himself Jason's "mommy" is so unhinged, and makes so much sense in a Joker-logic way that I love it.

"There's that kid who I killed- and who's biological mother I also killed."

"So basically I made him the man he is today."

"Awww, and how sweet. He even took my maiden name. Red Hood- it's a family name now."

[disniq]

i can't believe bruce yellow wallpapered jason

Hi Anon! I know you're probably being facetious, but genuinely it makes absolute and total sense to me given Bruce's history with Jason!

For all of Bruce and Jason's recurring physical beat-down fights, it's the psychological and emotional abuse that's always felt more insidious to me.

This is the man who purposely tricked Jason into returning to the scene of his own brutal murder in the hopes that he would relive his own death so Bruce could figure out how he came back.

Batman and Robin (2011) #20

This is the man who hits Jason harder than he hits the Joker. Who beats his son so badly he can't even fire a gun a month later, and then only shows up to say "you're not welcome in Gotham, your best friend is dead, and you need the occasional beating to keep in line, but we have each other's backs".

RHatO (2016) #25 and #27

This is the man who sent Jason undercover with literal, actual, known villains conducting extremely unethical science experiments, almost getting Jason killed multiple times. And then, when Jason raised concerns about them letting this operation continue, Bruce ignored him, brushed his concerns aside, and treated Jason as though this was all his fault.

Task Force Z #4 and #6

Not to mention Bruce's habit of consistently *starting* fights with Jason and then twisting it around to blame Jason, to make him think it's his choice and not Bruce's.

Task Force Z #6 | Catwoman #57 | RHatO #25

So, yeah.

I can believe Bruce Yellow Wallpapered Jason

[obsessivebookgeek]

I kind of want a batfam/Percy Jackson crossover fic for the pure comedic potential that is Jason Todd and Jason Grace. I mean, they have the same name, but could not be more different in personality.

[spacebubblehomebase]

Coloring practice with my favorite superhero comic book duo: The Super Sons! =) -Bubbly💙