#so I want to see how these fanfics do actually take away from representation

[kiwisandpearls]

genuine question! How does making an angel dust x fem reader fic actually take representation away?

angel dust is still gay in canon, a random fic doesn’t change that.

people headcannoning him as bi or pan also doesn’t change that he’s gay in canon.

[inksword]

One thing I wish all communities of Worm (reddit, tumblr, the forum who must not be named, etc.) would do a bit more frequently is acknowledge Lisa's asexuality. Like, okay you can still ship her with all your favorite ladies but she could be ace about it ya know? This isn't even WoG aceness it's in the actual text of Ward from her own mouth. It's not totally unexpected just sort of a bummer that an extremely rare asexual character in a piece of media that I like gets almost uniformly cast as a lesbian without a nod to her canon sexuality.

She could still date girls! I personally think she's aro not just ace but since that wasn't explicitly mentioned she could still date girls within her canon characterization!

And before anyone throws a "Wildbow totally wrote her bi/lesbian he just doesn't know it, disregard canon statements of sexuality" like they do with Taylor:

Asexual people can have incredibly close friendships

Asexuals can make sex jokes or observations, sometimes certain jokes seem even more absurd or silly to us because we're asexual!

Asexuals can be hyper aware of how they are perceived in terms of affection

You know if Wildbow had confirmed her canon lesbianism in Ward people would cite that shit and not brush it off "because it's Ward and bad and I haven't read it" (okay some straight-dude spacebattles fanfic writers would ignore it but I don't think that's who I'm talking to here.)

IDK if I can remember every argument that people use to justify headcanoning her as lesbian but please please please just believe her own words and her own reflections on her life and feelings. Yes it's a Watsonian argument but I don't think there's a good Doylist reason to doubt her about it either.

I am not here to take away your ships just... venting a little I guess haha. Yes yes I know that technically every shippy drawing of her could technically be her being ace but when that's every shippy drawing with no acknowledgement it doesn't hit ya know? Like getting bi representation and seeing a character 99% shipped with one gender. I seriously don't want to dampen anyone's enjoyment of Tattletale or say you can't relate to her if you're not ace however!

Ughhh I totally feel like a wet blanket complaining considering I pretty much only contribute a drawing every four years to the fandom. I'll admit I don't voraciously read worm-fic so I may be totally off base and she gets acknowledged all the time in places I don't see. I guess anyone got any good explicitly ace Tattletale fics haha?

[dandylovesturtles]

once again writing fanfic for an AU that's not mine

uh hi so I guess it is Crying About Future Donnie Hours except this is actually a different future Donnie than the one everyone else is crying about.

I have wanted to write something for @kathaynesart 's Replica for awhile now and I got an idea and I decided to use @tmntaucompetition as an excuse to write and post it, so I guess you could say this is propaganda I didn't expect it to be the day after my poll though so I kinda scrambled a bit aaaaa lol

Replica is one of my favorite ROTTMNT comics, it's one of the first I found after I watched the movie, and I love it so much. If you haven't read it please do! However, there is one part of the comic in particular (and especially one line in particular) that has stuck with me since I first read it, and I think about it a lot. So consider this my little homage to that part of the comic, and to the character who says it.

Also there is a short section of this that is just dialogue from the comic so obviously all credit for that dialogue goes to Kat!

And Kat I really hope you don't mind me playing around in your sandbox a bit /)_(\

Anyway I don't normally title these but I did give the gdoc for this one the title: The Needed Functions to Appreciate It

I hope you enjoy!

~~~

As an AI, experiencing the apocalypse was different.

S.H.E.L.L.D.O.N. did not have to feel the aching gnaw of hunger, or the bite of the cold. He did not feel the sting of acid rain on skin, or the seeping of blood from injury. All the physical sensations his family and friends suffered, S.H.E.L.L.D.O.N. was spared them all.

That did not mean he didn’t feel.

…

“Hey Dee?”

The “Hm?” he got in response was distracted. Donnie was often distracted those days. S.H.E.L.L.D.O.N. didn’t resent him for it. He knew how busy Donnie is - he cataloged and prioritized the to-do list himself, after all.

“I still have the timers Raph asked me to set for his training in the system, and all his old records. What…” He hesitated. “What should I do with them?”

“Oh.” That got Donnie to pause in his work oh so briefly. His finger tapped twice on the enter key without pressing. “You can delete all of that. Might as well free up memory space where we can.”

“Okay.” It was the right answer. Members of the resistance were allowed to set timers and save some personal files on S.H.E.L.L.D.O.N.’s system, and protocol dictated that forty eight hours after loss of vitals, S.H.E.L.L.D.O.N. should clear such files.

It had been three hundred and fifty seven hours since Raph flatlined. He should have cleared these ages ago.

“Hey Dee,” he said again, more quietly this time, and Donnie actually looked away from his work and gave him his attention.

He hadn’t had a physical body since a raid over a year before; he was just an artistic representation on the monitor. Donnie promised to make him a new one, but S.H.E.L.L.D.O.N. could see both the parts inventory and the to-do list and he doubted he would be able to do that. Usually it didn’t bother him, but he thought that day that it bothered him a little.

“I don’t want to,” he admitted, and Donnie’s face shifted to something more sad.

“Ah. You have developed a lot of sentimentality…” Donnie sighed, not unkindly. “Well, you can keep it. I won’t make you delete it.”

S.H.E.L.L.D.O.N. bounced around the monitor a moment while he mulled it over. Donnie didn’t look away, though one of his battleshell arms took up the task of typing on his computer.

“Isn’t that not good, though, dude? Like… it’s useless now. It’s just taking up space.”

“Yes… sentimentality and practicality are often in direct conflict.” He leaned back in his chair, eyes roving to the ceiling. “Sometimes we just can’t let things go, even against our better judgment, because they remind us of something or… someone.”

S.H.E.L.L.D.O.N. zoomed himself in so he filled more of the screen. “Do you get sentimental, Dee?”

Donnie’s lips quirked up in a smile. “Yes, unfortunately so. I find it vexing… though, Mikey would say, “That’s what makes you a person, Donnie, don’t fight it!” or something like that.” 

“But if it makes you hold on to useless stuff, or do things that aren’t necessary, isn’t that bad?”

“Ah, such is the nature of emotions, Shelldon - they often lead us to do things that are, for a lack of a better word, suboptimal… Sometimes I think it would be nice to have a switch so I could just turn the pesky things off. I would focus so much better if I never had to feel… anxious or frustrated or… or sad.” He slumped forward, hugging his arms around himself. “If I didn’t have to… to miss anyone.”

“...That’s the worst one,” said S.H.E.L.L.D.O.N., and Donnie nodded.

“Yeah… yeah, it is.” He turned to face S.H.E.L.L.D.O.N., eyes glossy. “But-”

ERROR: Memory file corrupted.

.

.

.

.

“It is a convincing replica. Expertly crafted. You act just like him… Be careful that it does not interfere with our intended purpose.”

“Need I remind you, one of my core purposes is to act as a support to Donatello’s family. That includes you, even if you have chosen to forego the needed functions to appreciate it.”

“A necessary purge to keep the Kraang’s whispers at bay.”

“Was it? That is not what Donatello ever wished of you. Even when you decided to take on this burden.”

“Not having to ‘feel’ has its… benefits.”

“And Donatello was quite firm that you not lock yourself away-”

“Such advanced artificial intelligence, yet you still fail to recognize your own ignorance.”

“To what, exactly?”

“To the bliss in not having to miss him.”

.

.

.

.

Username: OMEGABOOTYYYSHAKER9000

Password: ****************

MEMORY FILE ACCESS AUTHORIZED

Enter date: XX/XX/20XX XX:XX

RETRIEVING MEMORY FILE. . . SUCCESS

AUDIOVISUAL PLAYBACK BEGIN

“But even if missing them keeps you from performing optimally… Running from bad emotions means running from the good ones, too.” Donatello sighed. “At least, that’s what Mikey said to me after Papa… And it took me awhile, but I realized he was right. Don’t tell him I said that, though, or I’ll never hear the end of it.”

“Your secret is safe with me, dude.”

“Thank you, Shelldon.” He reached with his hand and touched the screen, and even though they couldn’t actually feel each other, S.H.E.L.L.D.O.N. moved like he was nuzzling his palm. “When you see Raph’s training records, it makes you sad, but also makes you remember all the things you loved about him, right?”

“I guess, yeah… He’d always scratch my head when I came to give him his training report. When I had a body.”

“Mm, so that’s why you always went to do it in person.” Donatello chuckled, rubbing his thumb on the monitor. He was sad, then, thinking that he couldn’t build S.H.E.L.L.D.O.N. a proper body. Always lacking the time and materials…

“Is it worth it, though?” asked S.H.E.L.L.D.O.N.. “The good feelings, when there’s bad feelings, too?”

“Maybe that’s one of the great mysteries of life, Shelldon. All I know is… I don’t want to give them up. Not anymore. And… it’s easier to deal with, when you’re not alone.” Donatello pulled his hand back, and looked at him very seriously. “Anata wa hitorijanai. That’s as true for you as it is for any of us. Your family will always be here for you, when you miss Raph, or anyone else.”

Maybe it made S.H.E.L.L.D.O.N. feel better. He smiled, as much as his facial design would allow.

“Okay. And I’ll always be here for you too, Dee.”

“Thank you, Shelldon.”

“Love ya.”

“I love you too.”

End playback? Y 

PLAYBACK ENDED

[bohemian-nights]

yeah the suggestion that sophie should be erased is deeply annoying to. like i need male centered white women who are fujos to step away from bridgerton and benophie. Sophie being a woman, a bastard woman, and navigating her gendered oppression because of her lower class is integral to benophie. if people want lgbtq representation they can go watch another show, or better yet, create original characters and go write fanfic if they want.

There is a place for LGBT+ rep in Bridgerton, there is even a place to turn a couple of the characters bi, but specifically gender swapping any of the main love interests/protagonists just would not work, and people need to be honest about that. However, they won’t be because they are just using the excuse of the show not being “diverse enough” to not support a Black woman playing Sophie Beckett.

The reality is that Bridgerton has tried to be more diverse than most shows, but they do not have to check every single box or else the show is not “progressive” enough. That’s not how it works.

It’s not “unprogressive” to keep the most oppressed woman due to her gender and class in the eight book series a woman. Again taking rep away from women(and marginalized women at that) to give to a (white) man that way you can see two (white) dudes fucking on screen does not make you “progressive.” Trying most surely does not make you a good ally(seriously where are you people when we are actually getting bad rep?).

Just because you see Black people in a period piece that’s highly popular, in a place where you feel we don’t “belong,” that doesn’t mean that we have to give up our space to fit you inside it.

(Mind you this is a place that we created because if Shonda hadn’t adapted these books added the diversity this series would’ve never done the numbers it has. Bridgerton is a sensation because of racial diversity that isn’t steeped in racism and race. It’s neither here nor there, but we constantly create our own, everyone wants to eat off our plates, and then leave us with scraps after they’ve had their fill).

This whole discourse is just incredibly bizarre, but the thing I find the most disturbing about it is the fact that even if you want to say Sophie should be a man, Benedict doesn’t like men.

I mean this literally should be a non-issue since he has shown 0 interest in men for two seasons and he’s had plenty of opportunities to fuck them if he wanted too.

Now if the show turns around and makes him bi this season(doubtful, but I’ll humor the weirdos) he still clearly likes women too so why Sophie should get the boot is beyond me, but not surprising considering the state of fandoms.

Silently off topic, but kinda related since it comes from the same place of using the lack of prominent LGBT+ rep to justify keeping a Black woman from being Sophie.

Which brings me people who think that Masali Baduza(suspected Sophie) can’t possibly be Sophie and instead insist that she’s either related to the Stirlings(the family Francesca marrys into) or that shes a gender bent Michael.

For issue #1 people claim that Masali and Victor Ali(the man who they suspect is John Stirling) “look alike” therefore she must be playing his sister. Victor Ali and Masali don’t look alike outside of both being dark skinned Black people(the people saying they do look hella suspect🙃).

And while Masali isn’t a household name she did have her own show(Noughts + Crosses) so she’s too big to just be playing someone’s sisters on Bridgerton. Not to mention the secrecy for a side character seems extremely unwarranted.

Now for issue #2, people are using a casting call(cause at least they know that it makes no sense for Masali to be a side character) that allegedly went out two years back to say she’s gender-bent Michael.

If you believe in the casting call(a similar one went out for Kate calling for a Indian actress when she was being cast so it is on brand) it says that the actress cast will be the lead for season four. Francesca’s story most surely isn’t going to be next up(skipping over both Eloise and Benedict? Be real) and it’s also another gendered issue to where if you make Michael into a woman you are changing up the story so much you might as well created an OC.

There is plenty of evidence that suggest Benedict’s season is next, Sophie has been cast, she’ll be in s3, and even if you don’t want to believe the casting call right now, that Masali is playing her, but instead of seeing what’s right in front of them people want to say that it just can’t be.

Overall I feel like people are doing a whole lot of talking and “advocating” for nothing cause they are butthurt that Sophie doesn’t look how they want her to look.

It’s still hurtful though to see that people would rather want Sophie to be a man and take away everything she stands for than see her being played by a Black woman, but again fandoms are unfortunately weird like that.

Let me end this by saying that while my rants my sound like I have gone crazy or am trying to start some bs, I have been suffering in silence since Bridgerton came out nearly three and a half years ago so this is me breaking my silence.

Again this isn’t really about erasing Sophie. It’s about keeping Sophie from being played by a Black woman which is fucking nuts considering that a Black woman is producing this crap.

First it was how Sophie couldn’t be non-white because it would be problematic. Then after Simone was cast as Kate it was how the show had no East Asian representation or Latina rep and had “too many Black people”(where are the Black people besides Lady Danbury and Will 🙃)so Sophie could be non-white, but she should not be Black.

Now that it truly seems like a Black girl it’s how Sophie should be a man cause the show has no LGBT+ rep.

And yeah everyone deserves rep, but the fact that people have continually said that their has been enough rep for Black people as a way to silence us and push their own representation at the expense of Black people is disgusting.

I can not reiterate this enough, the one thing this shitty ass fandom has been consistent in is saying that a Black woman shouldn’t play Sophie Beckett.

All I can say is that I hope Shonda has not listened to the people who keep yelling at her to give them representation at the expense of Black people while at the same time being fucking passive aggressive whiny little anti-Black bitches to her and all the Blackish actors on the show.

[girl4music]

The idea or take that romance isn’t as important as friendship when friendship can evolve into romance is an odd one for me and I think it’s because I don’t think romance can be a romance without a deep friendship.

I’m partial to the “love is friendship on fire” adage and fictional ships or couple romances or love stories that begin from friendship. I favour friends-to-lovers and slow burn platonic-to-romantic relationships in art/entertainment because the depth of the connection is not only depicted but also drawn out and developed.

You get the whole journey so there’s never any rush to get to one development to another. There’s no time-skipping. And there’s no push for something more to happen because what you see happening is part of why you want it to be something more. You appreciate all of it. Even the negatives like the fights and conflicts because that also helps to evolve the relationship into higher degrees of love and devotion than ever before if you’re able to get the whole journey of what you want.

And I think this is why I am fundamentally bored with romantic WLW ships of today in TV art/entertainment.

Because you don’t get the whole journey of the ship.

You don’t really get a love story.

You barely get a pamphlet. 😒

But shows like ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ and ‘Wynonna Earp’ give you WLW ships where you get everything in the ships because the journey is the whole point to it.

And for me - that feels significantly more romantic than something that’s explicitly made to be romantic.

I’ve come to realize that that’s probably because they both begin as friends and that that never changes. All that happens is the friendship evolves into romance. And I feel like a lot of TV show WLW ships get it very wrong when they change the friendship side of things. That’s if it even starts as a friendship first. I am often surprised by how many WLW ships I’ve seen in TV art/entertainment that do not. That immediately go into romance. That’s usually just because those shows are just too damn short and linear and they have no time to show you the journey. Thank fuck for fanfic then because in fanfic you can rewrite the beginnings and endings and also explore all the detail in the middle.

What can I say? TV show storytelling just isn’t a good medium for WLW representation not because they don’t want to give you the whole journey… but because they’re prevented from being able to do so.

And I’ve had enough now. I’ve had enough of being made a side storyline or liner notes in a straight person’s show or being killed off or cancelled or tragically broken up and separated when it’s not.

I either want to be a main narrative or not there at all.

I don’t want to have to settle for a half-way state and position of existence just because I’m not male and not straight. I don’t want to have to just make do and I think anybody that believes that they should seriously need to watch something more “dated” where the censorship might be rampant throughout, but… least you still get to see the whole damn journey of what is. Least there is development for those characters and even a conclusion and closure to their relationships…

Least you actually get to see yourself be … someone.

And none of it has absolutely anything to do with your sexuality or gender identity in the way where you have to feel like you’re apologizing for it or sacrificing for it… but rather… this is what is happening and it’s fine.

People really think it’s contradictory that why I love Xena and Gabrielle so much is because their sexuality or the nature of their relationship is never made an issue. They see that as an erasure of who they are.

When no, that’s not it at all.

It’s just not all they are.

It’s not all they do.

There’s so much more about them that’s detailed instead over that and it still never takes away from it.

And that’s what you want. That’s the kind of format to a love story you want to be watching or reading about because it’s normal, it’s natural and it’s just how it is.

They’re lead female characters with many main narratives across the span of 6 whole ass seasons.

And oh yeah, they just happen to be queer and in love.

The journey of the relationship as a friendship is always put first and made the focus with Xena and Gabrielle but it’s always up to you what else they are. It’s just for me - the friendship is what IS so romantic. I can’t really separate one from the other because to me… the reason why they’re the greatest love story that I’ve ever seen in TV of all-time is because they begin as friends and they never neglect this aspect.

[cryptid-intraining]

People who discredit fanon interpretations of characters can suck my dick. just because something is fanon doesn't make it bad, say you don't like fandom and fanfic culture and move on.

I know of people who've only ever read Batfam fanfiction and fanon content and never once touched a comic, but then gone in to write their own Batfam fics purely from their understanding of them from fanon and I think that's incredible. good for them, honestly. the fact that fandoms and writers and artists can create a whole separate world that you can consume and explore without ever getting into the canon material is so cool and such a unique element of fandom that I could honestly talk about for hours and shouldn't be discredited.

If people are talking about why they think Jason is redeemable and why they think he's misunderstood and you bring up how he's actually really unrepentant and violent in the comics, fine, that's a great argument if we're talking canon, but if they're talking about fanon and their own headcanons? that doesn't make what they're saying any less valid and shouldn't be dismissed as unimportant.

Saying "oh but pit madness isn't canon" in response to people bringing it up in discussion of what Jason did to Tim and why they think the characters could reconcile if the work was put in and they actually address their issues when they're talking about fanon and headcanons is asinine.

We know. We're not talking about canon. Not everyone values characters based on their canon representations.

Most of my favourite characters wouldn't be my favourite if it weren't for fanon. They're just more interesting through the lense of fandom. The fans always have better ideas, more interesting theories, and far more complex interpretations.

Plus they're fucking good writers. Far better than the ones that write the canon. The same goes for the artists.

And while we're on the topic, just because people like Jason as a character in canon doesn't mean they're saying he's a good person. we can like bad people in fiction and also acknowledge that they're bad people.

But then we go to fanon and fanfic to explore the idea of them being better and changing. Because the canon material leaves us wanting, we see these characters with such interesting potential and want to develop it.

Bad person =/= likable character. Saying we shouldn't like a character because they've done bad things is genuinely ridiculous.

I've seen so many people say that Jason is being fucked up by DC writers (I agree) but then have an issue with fanon without acknowledging that people go to fanon and fanmade content to get better portrayals of their favourite characters. just because you don't like how fanon views a character or that fans write them to be redeemable where you don't see redemption doesn't mean it's wrong or bad or stupid.

You just don't like it.

I don't understand this mindset that fanfic needs to reflect canon. obviously you can do whatever you want with fanfiction, that's the glory of it and I would never want to take that away, but why write what is already found in canon? Jason doesn't need to be written like a violent, unrepentant guy in fanfic just because that's how he's written in canon.

If you don't like a character, cool. We all have characters we don't like but you don't have to list reasons why you're right and why the character is actually shit. Just because you dislike a character doesn't mean fans of that character are wrong or misguided or misinterpreting the character. You just don't like them. That's it.

Fandom is such an important space and there is genuinely so much to be gained from having conversations that take into account both sides of a character (like there are so many issues with how some people talk about Jason that go beyond personal taste and just become super problematic but that would be a whole other post) but it is just so hard to hold a civil discourse about these things, irl or online, and especially on this hellsite.

If you want to discuss in the replies and reblogs, fine by me, but don't be assholes and just respect other people's likes and views.

[total-feminism-takes]

Lesbian Courtney anon here I like to think we don't sexualize cartoons but sadly we do. (Not all of us do!)

Courtney I love her... but I am not ignoring her hatred and sexualization in the fandom.

I love myself now, well I am working it out, ok?

But I am Latina and was hypersexualize growing up by grown men as well as harassed sexually a lot times.

I know this bad take or awful thing to say but sometimes we writers use our favorite characters from TD (Me it's just me as a fanfic writer) I make Courtney seem so goddess like status with describing her body type but sometimes the way people expect Latinas to be wide hips, big butt, and etc.

But it's not because I believe all girls that love Courtney needs to be like that because that's bullshit.

You don't need be anything but yourself because you are killing it girl and you don't need to do much but exist is my opinion.

Oh yeah. The point is I need to make is women bodies are sexualized throughout history most our cartoons aren't made by women for women only. Society has failed us in many ways and forms along with sexualizing out cartoons for young and growing minds.

I am at fault too because I describe TD girls like goddess or from 'perfect' women yet it actually something I am unlearning through age and writing. I want them to be pretty but how I write them it sounds like shitty 80's heated romance book!

Looks aren't all that, it's a plus.

We shouldn't sexualize. We should learn to appreciate people how they are.

ALSO... Bimbos are needed and goth girl as well. Lindsay is beautiful and she can be a bimbo and still wear whatever she wants! Some bimbos, gothic, cheerleader, nerdy cosplaying girls, and etc, have been sexualize not because of their soul or maybe they shouldn't be dress like that in the first place. It's because some people are just awful seeing little girls to teens to women as objects/ to conquer and use. (Not all people but too much of them that causes feminine bodies feel awful of existing)

All these girls of TD could be more.

But now it's our jobs to do if we choose to, yes, we need to make safety place for children in the fandom too but a lot of children are curious about the world.

We can tag 18 plus all we want, fanfics of M and Up, and put not for child or minors yet it will take a community to raise these children in said community of TD Fandom. But we aren't their parents who control their search history, can delete their A03 accounts, and take away their Tumblrs.

So the question is how can we do better?

Lindsay

Gwen

Leshawna

Courtney

and etc.

Need better representation, so then write it, create it yourselves or ask someone to create for you, call us out when we fail you too.

Women are more than beauty and their bodies.

But remember not all think like that, I am a Latina who writes of her trauma onto Courtney.

I know that Leshawna is more than we got her hoops, her loudness, and mistreatment is overwhelming to someone to rewrite especially if you don't family members or 3D black teens representation in media. She should never needed be called gh*tto or all that stuff by anyone. I like her loud and proud, her dancing should be more in fanfics, and sometimes sadly some people in your community seem like a stereotype. I love Leshawna she reminds me of my older cousin growing up and she still has the hoops too! Guess what, she is married to a white man with two kids- she was stereotyped and treated awful by many even my own family. In end the day she loved herself still proud her but struggled with outside because people judge her on everything mostly them hoops, nails, speaks, and way she was.

I know that Lindsay is big chested and she can breath, everyone let her breath maybe make her love interest fall for her blonde hair or her eyes. We get it she's big chested... I am pretty sure her back is killing her doesn't need more the fandom trying make her uncomfy. Like if she was real person she would block half of us already! Also I love bimbo Lindsay and stupid act. Yeah I am say it she acting stupid because she was emotional wise, good friend, and even more.

(You don't need post this lol)

But Bimbo Lindsays! RISE UP!

Gwen transfem rise up too. (I feel like I have a whole rant gothic girlfriend trend that start years ago and in anger with bloodlust too. Because you don't actually see them as a person but to sexzaile them and sexual thing to flex on people on online like gross and I will end up in FBI custody for explaining I want fight men for only dating them for I just wanted gothic baddie toy but alive to date to fuck with not a person that actually is person with a soul)

I am sorry for cussing in my rant but I think fandom tends to sexualize these girls maybe too much and I am also at fault sometimes I have to put warnings don't copy this or this not how to treat teens and it's just my trauma hopping out again in writing... make them TD girls eat a sandwich and giggle about baby duck funny videos!

WHERE IS MY TD ASEXUAL AND AROMANTIC GIRLS?

WHERE IS MY TD LATE BLOOMERS AND AROMANTIC GIRLS?

WHERE IS MY TD I JUST WANT TO WAIT TO DATE UNTIL COLLEGE AND DEMISEXUAL GIRLS?

Where are you writer of TD fandom have more representation for the fandom?

I am she/them queer Latina girl I struggle with representation better for my girl Leshawna but goddamn someone save me not her!

You know why? Leshawna deserves the best and better than the stereotype and only being that stereotype. She can be more still wear them hoops!

Also, I am not like full black? I am mixed race to the point I don't what I am anymore. I wasn't raised in black experience, but I have acknowledged most people look at skin tone before meeting you which I don't like that but :/ it happens. Black experience in America is different for everyone but I didn't even grow up in it and that. Some my friends didn't tell half their experiences, but I been there in awkward moments where I was like you know what I am step for my girl and yell this fellow classmate for stereotyping her and fight if I have to.

Point is representation matter a lot and I hate sometimes use of gh*tto because links back to Jewish people centuries ago and people ahhha we need to learn history more stop using words that harmful to Jewish and Black community without least tagging harmful words are at use but writer doesn't support it like such.

That's it for now.

I am sorry and I understand if you ban me for the blog too for cussing and having awful take, I understand and will be respectful leave the blog alone. Love y'all peace out!

- 🧡

[bonerot19]

What are your feelings about Lost Days? Specifically the ending?

Personally I think “I don’t care about the world” doesn’t seem at all accurate to Jason’s actions. Like def unreliable narrator vibes otherwise why is he continually making his life harder.

Also the pit rage thing, people say it’s not canon but def hinted at in LD. I dislike when it’s used to brush aside Jason’s very valid anger but otherwise no strong feelings on it, what about you?

lastly, any takes about Talia and Jason’s relationship? Not the.. ending.. bits.. but other than that? I just don’t think there’s good evidence (doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be interesting to explore in fanfics ofc) that their relationship is white or black. I think Talia’s an immensely complicated person who has to continually make impossible choices in very brutal manners because of the circumstances of who she is and who she loves. As a result, there’s no such thing as ‘good mom’ or ‘bad mom’ Talia. But yeah.

I'll preface this by saying I haven't read lost days in a long while (and actually completely forgot that I had read it one point until I was reading a fic and was like......OH! FAMILIAR!) it's on my reread list, so I remember the broad strokes but not specifics (memory of a goldfish) so I can't comment on the first question rn but I'll keep it in mind on my reread after finals!

as for the pit rage - I have a lot of thoughts:

I think it can be an interesting plot device to diverge from canon - like I think it's interesting when someone has the pit amplify emotions (and therefore make it "pit rage" for Jason because he is angry). I think, in that situation, it can be a cool representation of real life intrusive thoughts and rage.

I have rage issues and trouble controlling my emotions and, sometimes, when I'm really angry, I understand the phrase "seeing red" to a lowkey scary degree. and I like it when fictional universes have magical things that represent real life things. I don't think it takes away from the real life thing, I think it acts as a analogy, making it easier to understand.

does Jason need a magical rage problem to represent his very real rage and anger issues? no. is it maybe helpful/easier to express how angry he is when you can say he's seeing green? yeah.

I like it a lot less when it's used to negate his emotions entirely or explain away his actions. (there's a lot of bad canon writing that has Jason do OOC things, so I'm chill with explaining that stuff away or ignoring it entirely) but when it comes to his return to Gotham and UTRH, I think his autonomy should remain intact. he wasn't lashing out because he was "insane" he was lashing out (and constructing a criminal empire as a teenager lmao) because he was hurt and angry and, maybe, he wanted to watch the world burn, a little bit. he wanted other people to feel the pain he was feeling bc it was unbearable. that's what teenagers are like. (if comics would stop drawing him to look 47, maybe that would come across better)

anyway - like all fanon interpretations and expansions, there are things I like and things I don't and I think it all comes down to interpretation. and I wouldn't ever condemn someone or their writing for interpreting something in a way I disagree with (hell, the more I get back into this fandom and the more comics I read/reread, the more I disagree with some of the Red Hood stuff I have written. that's fine. we're all learning and growing here)

TALIA

she's so precious to me and honestly a big reason I want to reread Lost Days. the poor woman has undergone so much character assassination in canon.

I completely agree that there is no "black and white" interpretation of her. she is complex (even when canon doesn't want her to be). she is a product of her environment, she is rebelling against her upbringing. she loves Damian, she does bad things to him sometimes. she is constantly stuck between a rock and a hard place.

with Jason, I do understand why people say her relationship with him is purely transactional (she does what she does for him for Bruce not Jason) and they're probably right. BUT I really like the interpretation of Talia that cares about him. I like the idea that she did try to restore his mind and train him in order to return him to Bruce, but that she grew attached and came to care about him (maybe/probably not as a mother, but as a mentor and perhaps cool, if emotionally distant, aunt)

I do enjoy fics where people write Talia as caring about Jason like a son, that's fun for me. give him a mom. (I do prefer giving him Selina or Natalia but like, any mom that isn't Sheila will do atp)

(and yeah idk, do what you want, but Talia and Jason fucking didn't happen in My Brain. I read that and went oh, no. lol. and never looked back)

[one-half-guy]

The idea of a "Silver Frontiers" refuses to get out my mind...

To be clear, it would be a fanfic or fancomic (more likely fanfic)...

In what I thought until now, in this story Eggman didn't get in the Star Fall Islands before be definitively defeated so Sage was not created by him... Amy and Tails still got trapped in the Cyber Space by the start, but Sonic wouldn't be deceived by The End due him having Nicole to dive in the informations in the Cyber Space as well to help to free Tails and Amy without face the Titans or free The End...

With Eggman defeated and after see that the Chaos Emeralds were actually secure, our heroes would get out the islands and let the emeralds there. I also don't think in Knuckles getting stuck in the islands...

So starts the story: After return from their adventures in the Portal Genesis, the Team Psych decides to run away from Onyx City by now to explore the world while they think in ways to overthrow the tyrants...

Here Silver takes Sonic's role: Somehow he's able to get in and out the Cyber Space freely, so The End decides to deceive him to get free.

Sage has the same role, but now she was created by Eggman Nega, who takes Eggman's role...

Gold gets Amy's place, being the first one that Silver "sets free", she also is very curious about the first Koco's story since she loves romance and now she's kinda seeing one happening before her eyes... She can't hide she feels a lil' envy because she wish she could live something like that...

About Knuckles' place... At first I thought in put my OC Knuckles' descendant in that, but eventually I decided that Blaze would be a better choice... Although it would undeniably have a lot changes since they're a lot alike but their context are far way different, besides she have no a rivalry with Silver, so wouldn't have provocations... I don't know how I would handle that...

At last Professor Von Schlemmer would take Tails' place, I think he would act more energetic and excited about the Ancients' Technology since it's not every day he can investigate ancient but far advanced technology... I don't think that in a moment he would explicitly and directly question Silver if he considers him a burden, maybe he would vent to the silver hedgehog how he still feel because of all the Onyx City mentality... Maybe a proper apologise by taking him to the Science Center all sudden...

Different of Sonic, I think that Silver would eventually have some episodes of bursting because all the agony caused by the Cyber Corruption, probably starting by the final of the second island, luckily away from Blaze... Unfortunately in the third island he would be having more frequent tantrums and would accidentally shout at the Professor, although I believe the blue human would easily understand, forgive and try to console...

I don't know how to fit the Bits, but I would put one by each from the first three islands and Silver would vent at them... Good thing they are good listeners!

The Cyber Space could be representations of every alternative future Silver ever lived or traveled, both good ones and ruined ones, like the Crisis City, or the Metal Virus dommed world, worlds polluted by the Eggman Empire, The Onyx City itself, etc...

Since Eggman Nega has willingly threatened the world's destruction but never was forced to cooperate with the heroes, Sage would still recall the events when the original Eggman joined forces to Sonic and their results were better than calculated in attempt to convince him to team up to Silver...

The final however breaks my legs, I wouldn't want to do something exactly the same, by I can't think in nothing different...

Anyway, thanks for reading!! Feel free to make this story by yourself if you wish!!

[litgwritersroom]

It's okay to admit you haven't done enough for something, some causes aren't yours to take up and to adopt if you don't know enough about them/aren't really comfortable or proficient in it. Bobby is a somewhat easy character for you to write because you know him well, hence why he made up a predominant amount of the content within the month and I'm not gonna lie, I do get where the anon is coming from to a certain degree, and I think they're hurt because there's so little representation in game and for it to be honed in on a character that isn't even canonically LGBT and makes up a massive chunk of the content as is must sting. There are Canon LGBT characters like Arjun, Elijah, Jake, Elisa, Marisol etc that are often sidelined or go wholly ignored for characters who are only LGBT through headcanon rather than actual content. It could've been a time for you to give them some love but obviously things went in a different direction. There's always a chance to do better and to perhaps rectify these mistakes further down the line, but the routine of ganging up on anybody who has an opinion that differs from yours then getting into this whole echo chamber of self victimisation does nothing and almost comes across as immature. Creative Writing is a medium that begets critique, and although you're all in a space where opinions align, there are people beyond it who see things differently and shouldn't be lambasted for it.

Nor should we be lambasted for writing about characters we like on our own fucking page, but here we are. Another person accusing us of being immature, or not 'comfortable' with writing about LGBT characters, or saying we need to do better, while anonymously asking on our page.

This has actually pissed me the fuck off now.

I'm not admitting shit, I'm not rectifying shit, I'm not apologising for shit, I'm not doing better on shit. Em and Bia can do what they want, but I'm too fucking old to put up with someone telling me which characters I can write about and when.

It's our fucking page, and we're dishing out content as fast as we fucking can. We did Bobby first because we know the most about him, you're right. He's the easiest to write for. The fact it coincided with Pride Month was a coincidence. If we'd started a month earlier, or a month later, no one would fucking care we'd picked him. And we have had a few of our close friends tell us how much they enjoyed the focus on Bobby during this month, while still churning out a stupid number of HC's, asks, and fics, as well as updating our own fanfics separately.

If you gave a shit about actually helping us, or even wanted to SUBMIT YOUR OWN FUCKING POSTS like @tammyisobsessedwith or @banirareiko did, you'd be GENUINELY FUCKING HELPING.

Not a writer? Submit a fucking ask. We're not even doing a character spotlight in July because of how fucking exhausted we all are.

We spotlighted bobby because HE'S THE MOST POPULAR CHARACTER and WE GET THE MOST ASKS FOR HIM. And SOME PEOPLE LIKE TO READ ABOUT HIM IN A M/M RELATIONSHIP

I'm not apologising for not doing enough. We have PRIORITISED LGBT asks during pride month as much as we could. We can't write six fics at once. We're doing far, far more than YOU are, anon.

Where's your fucking submission? Where's the fic you wrote during pride month? You're welcome to link it here. We'll reblog the shit out of it and sing your fucking praises.

Until then, go away.

Side note: I did not run this post past Em or Bia. So you want to come at me, come at me directly.

Em even said in her last post we weren't going to address these asks any more. But I'm fucking raging about this. How fucking dare you.

[a-yarn-of-purple-prose]

I took a dive through that "the majority of fanfic is unreadable" thread that's going around and OP spent a hella long time making a case about the low standards of fanfiction when compared to the actual publishing industry.

(when called upon to fix that comparison-- because it's bullshit-- she switched to comparing fic authors to game streamers. You know, the professional fans that get paid/tipped for their fanwork of gaming performance. There's also a very very weird take on gamergate there, but that's not what I'm here to talk about. I'm also not here for the conversation about racism. OP wanted to say "can you all not be racist about this guy?" and wrote about ALL fic in every fandom being badly written. I'll stick to what she wrote.)

Industry publishing standards are set by companies and enforced by editors through sheer capitalism: comply or you won't be published/paid (self-publishing is another matter and not relevant to this discussion.) This is a matter of control, a power dynamic if you can see that expression without thinking kinky thoughts.

I mention this because it makes the case for Having (vaguely defined) Standards really funny.

There is nothing wrong with clicking away and self-curating as the philosophy for interacting with fanfic.

There is nothing different about having to check for yourself if a story is bad by looking at it, not when you compare it with choosing a new book to read or a movie to watch. You actually know more about a fic going in than you know about a book or a movie.

(and if you've never been surprised by horrible representation of your own country, ethnicity, class, gender or sexuality while watching a movie that looked completely harmless, then you live a blessed-- and dare I say privileged?-- life.)

People that expect special standards from fanfiction invariably position themselves as editors. They want to control what stories are told, in which manner and what language is used-- and they want us writers to comply for free.

It really makes me shout "fuck you, pay me" at the screen when I see people complain about the excess of something or lack of other in fics (this is about these angry, annoyed, demanding posts, not the sad little ones. People sighing sadly that their rarepair is too rare makes me write 15k fics.)

I don't mean this in the "it's a hobby/a gift upon mankind so don't you dare criticize" tone. What I mean is that, unless you're intending to commission me to do a job, you don't get to tell me how to do things. And if you do commission someone for a job, you'll still be an asshole client if you take that tone with the specialist you're paying to do a thing you can't/won't by yourself.

You wanna debate what it means that I wrote a character or story in an especific way?

Cool, let's do that. As peers.

Don't you dare act like you are my client because you're not.

So, if you excuse me, I'm going back to my writing so I can continue to abuse canon and "uncritically hack away everything that makes it unique in order to jam it into the same cookie cutter bullshit" in this otherwise peaceful Sunday.

[mamamittens]

Storytelling (Themes and Character Building)

For funzies while I'm waiting for this current raffle to end, I wanted to talk about the themes and characters I tend to write about starting from the ground up.

If you don't want to hear me talk extensively about my writing process and OCs, as well as their stories, feel free to scroll away, as the rest will be under a cut for brevity's sake.

Now, there are two different ways I go about crafting a story. And to assist, I'll use actual, recent(ish) stories I've written on AO3 as an example.

A Friend of Charlotte (FNAF: Security Breach) started off with the idea of what would it be like to be essentially a medium in this world.

What are ghosts like here? What would it be like to interact with the animatronics when you have an intimate connection with death yourself? From there I crafted Blaire's story while designing her character with consideration for where her powers come from.

Her eyes for example, are a literal representation of her ability to see the dead with the pupils reflecting light (an homage to a BNHA fanfic I highly recommend if you enjoy spooky content "Yesterday Upon the Stair"). Her tendency to wear layers of clothing and long sleeves are because the presence of ghosts causes an eerie chill that she is very susceptible to.

She was not a character I designed then wrote the story for. From the ground up, she was made for this story specifically. Designed to accentuate themes of grief, family, connection, the occult, and understanding. As well as the connection between death and life and where actions have consequences, even if they don't appear to at first. So when she stands up for someone else, it is to alleviate immediate suffering, and is willing to cause present discomfort to achieve that goal.

She is a very gray character to reflect a story where the suffering you cause others has very real consequences in the afterlife. And where choosing to do something and becoming invested in seemingly small problems can lead to greater things down the line.

And then I have Python Scramble (FNAF: Security Breach)

Mandy was developed as a character before I even began planning how her story would go. Her eventual PHD in AI, backstory tying her to the main cast, and even her prodigious strength were outlined before the story I'm still writing. The goal of her story is to explore what it would be like if someone invested in the animatronics AND capable of solving the problem ran through the story of Security Breach.

One of the core themes of her story is actually about 'the butterfly effect'. One of my favorite versions, in fact, where an act of kindness long before the story pays dividends in the darkest hour. Her story is all about 'set up' and 'pay off'. A trail of cause and effect so wide, it wouldn't be unfair to say that the conclusion was forgone long before the story even started. Where the 'right thing to do' may not have immediate benefits, but will eventually lead to a positive end. And negative actions will have equally reaching consequences.

Her story was tailor made to accentuate kindness, the importance of taking a firm stance, and making bonds with people even if there doesn't seem to be a benefit.

And now I'm going to talk about stories that I have written massive portions for but have never published (because I foolishly thought it would help my problem of waiting ages to update from writer's block).

"Cuts Both Ways" is a One Piece story with over 46,000 words that does need some editing to reflect changes I have made to the story since I originally started writing it.

It follows thirteen year old Joan joining the Spade crew after finding herself alone on an island in a whole new world and only a passing grasp on the language from her father. Who was born in One Piece.

She was designed much like Mandy, before the story was nailed down. It is all about finding and making new family, as well as a support system to deal with trauma and grief. Dealing with a horrifying new power that she can't control, as well as difficulties of outside perception of her person. Specifically age and gender.

(Excuse the old picture, it's about a year old)

Her story as it stands is all about finding a place in the world, what it means to be family, pacifism, and what it takes to break that pacifism (as well as how far this break will go). As well as personal identity, heritage, and self acceptance, hence her young age and conflicting image.

Now, as a character design, it lowkey started out as a joke.

"What if, instead of the anime trope of '3,000 year old woman that looks like a five year old girl', I wrote a character that was fairly young but looked more like a full grown adult?" And not in a sexy way, either (though I will fully admit that's why her eyes are like that, I was going for a bishonen look for a fun tropey gag). Aside from prodigious height and facial features, I designed her to have a thin frame like I remember having at that age before puberty.

Then I wrote her character and story with the real consequences of that in mind, including a somewhat warped self image. She's constantly getting confused for a man or an adult, so she acts with mannerisms that reflect that. It's only under stress that she really shows how young she is (which is where that good hurt/comfort comes in, cause I love fluffy family interactions).

Essentially, her story is all about having to grow up too quickly.

Now, this is a story with the working title of "One Good Turn", with an OC I'm still working on in One Piece.

You might recognize him from one of my recent posts comparing my art style two years apart. He's actually my first lead, male OC that has his own story.

His story has themes from several of my other stories, particularly grief, self identity, and the butterfly effect.

While he doesn't have a name, I've nailed down his personality and how it changes due to his current frame of mind. Playing into the 'aloof Cheshire Cat' identity to distance himself from pain by literally drifting through life. He doesn't get invested in anything after a family tragedy but there's still that kernel of a desire to help and do go in him. Without meaning to, he finds himself drawn to charismatic people in a desire for personal connection again.

And it is only after confronting tragedy that he finds himself 'grounded' again. And willing to step out of his comfort zone to help others even if it comes with great personal risk. The greater details of his story are still up in the air right now, so I can't go into too much detail about him.

But I can say that it involves another one of my favorite tropes where an aloof character essentially shows what it takes to make them move mountains.

So, what's the point here?

One of my favorite things about writing OCs is giving them powers and abilities to solve their problems before demonstrating that those powers did nothing to truly help them. The solution only comes after they realize what they are capable and willing to do, particularly for others. That's not to say that their powers are useless. Just that, until they are willing to take a stand and confront their real issues, they won't achieve or resolve anything. It's sort of like in "One Punch Man", where Saitama has the ability to defeat any foe in a single punch... but his life is empty without any challenges. He does a lot of good with his powers (when he uses them), but his real problem can't be solved with any number of "Consecutive Normal Punches". In fact, you could even say it made the problem worse.

The point of a lot of my stories is that even with great power (or even great responsibility), the real issues that prevent them from living fulfilling lives can only be solved with kindness (from others and towards themselves) as well as emotional growth and maturity. And the importance of choice that gives them the real power to change and improve the lives of themselves and those around them.

Unless of course the story we're talking about is smut, in which case it's that if your partner isn't satisfying you emotionally AS WELL AS physically, then literally what is the point.

If B.O.B. can beat out your partner by a country mile, it's time to find either a better partner or have a frank conversation about why a few AA batteries and a romance novel is more enriching than the IRL human being you share a bed with.

Don't look at me like that when you know I'm right.

[arodabi]

I kno all this ship talk is getting annoying but i just wanted to make a post explaining why the way alloros treat aro characters bugs me specifically. And then I’ll shut up, maybe

I want to make it clear that i do not care if a couple assholes online write fanfic where aro character kisses ppl or is in romantic relationships. Y’all are right, some fanfics here and headcanons there don’t matter. I’ve been in fandoms where small groups of fans got mad that a character was a lesbian and started blogs just to post about how actually she was 100% straight. That’s still bad and I’m not here excusing those ppls homophobia, but it was also like a small drop in the bucket compared to how much fan content existed portraying her as a lesbian and canon enforcing it as well. At the end of the day it didn’t change her identity.

And i haven’t seen this as much but i have seen some ppl declare Todd bojackhorseman (one of the most prominent asexual characters) to actually be allosexual bc they hate ace ppl or something. I also honestly don’t give a shit about that. Not only do most people know that Todd is canonically ace, he has multiple plot lines in the show about being ace. Saying he’s not is just factually untrue.

But when a character doesn’t have those plotlines, when they never say asexual or aromantic, when all the in canon confirmation we have is “it’s just not my thing” or “I’d rather have a dog than children” or “I’m not x identity I’m nothing” or even just an external tweet from the creative team confirming it, it’s a lot easier to erase their identity. Fuck, I’ve seen a character say “i am incapable of feeling romantic attraction, i never have and i never will” and ppl still not only deny that they’re aro, it’s not even questioned that they’re alloromantic. Every time i post offhandedly about peridot from Steven universe being canonically aroace, i still have aspec ppl every time comment about how they never knew she was canonically aro bc the entire fandom continues to deny and erase her canon identity.

Ppl say “uhhh one fanfic isn’t gonna change a characters canon identity sweaty :)” “one persons headcanons don’t negate canon :))))” but when Everyone does that it does erase their identity! When nobody acknowledges it then a bunch of aspec ppl don’t even know they’re being represented! Fandoms will take scraps of tweets or one line references to enforce and prove their ship or head canon is actually canon, but when writers say “this character has never been in love” or “this character cares deeply about others but would never dream of dating or marrying anyone” then it’s “uwu but that doesn’t prove anything! U don’t have to be a heartless aro to not be a fan of dating uwu”

When the only confirmation we have is a line or two and everyone wants to steamroll over that bc their ship is more important to the point where PEOPLE LITERALLY DONT EVEN KNOW THAT CHARACTER IS SUPPOSED TO BE AROMANTIC then i have a problem! That is erasure! You are taking away our representation! You literally are doing that! And not to get into speculation but if a bunch of creators see that people fucking hate when a character is canonically aspec, they might not want to give us rep if the whole fandom turns and says “fuck you for doing that, you’re ruining my experience” i’ve seen at least one creator say “I’m not gonna confirm this characters identity because it will piss people off” when that character was previously known to be aromantic. So thanks for that i guess. I’m glad at least that there was backlash to ppl erasing yelenas identity, enough backlash to get aromantic to #2 trending which i have never seen before. At least now people are aware of her identity, at least aspec people know that she shares our identity, and when it inevitably gets erased in the MCU, at least we’ll know to be pissed about it. But for many others, ppl just don’t know, because everyone chooses knowingly or unknowingly to cut that characters identity away from them, bc idk they think someone being aspec is boring or smthn

My final conclusion i suppose is just, if a aspec representation falls in the forest and nobody ever acknowledges it, does it benefit the people it’s representing

[grapecaseschoices]

Representation in IF (or the lack thereof)

In recent days, the topic of race and ethnicity - as well as treatment of marginalized communities within IFs and their fandoms - has been the premier point of conversation. It has become paramount for people of color, lately, to advocate for themselves in regards to issues of white washing, stereotypes, and white people (...and sadly, other people of color) feeling too comfortable using slurs.

Nothing new there.

As I saw someone recently point out, this is something that crops up every two months. And if you’ve been on tumblr for that length of time, in more than more than one fandom, this is likely something you’ve had to deal with several times within that space of time. It’s an unfortunate byproduct of being a fan of color. (And, often, any type of minority, period.)

We don’t get to escape within the internet into fantasy the same way the “majority” gets to do so. If it isn’t toxic people in the community, it is being disappointed by content creators - either through their comments (or lack thereof) or what they put out in their work.

I can’t speak for every black person or every person of color, however, my fandom experience is one of hyper vigilance. And I’ve noticed that sort of attitude in others.  We have to cut away from certain parts of the fandom. Or cut out work we used to love because of certain outlooks or behaviors.

It is a protective attitude that I’m unapologetic about. By curating my content consumption, it’s pushed me to find, and support, artists that care enough to see people like me as people.  Someone mentioned to me that “as marginalized communities, we have a right to be choosy about our representation in media.” And I agree. We do and we should never, ever feel guilty about it. 

That being said, it can feel kind of alienating.

As I mentioned before, there’s been a continued - one I am glad for - movement in the IF/VN community in calling out bad representation (and treatment of fans).  Fans have pushed for accountability and gotten it. However, I’ve noticed - or at least, I feel - the call for change is sort of limited. There’s a hesitance in our community to ask for that same change of ‘indie’/smaller creators as we do of companies or more established writers. And, honestly, this hesitance has left me with a feeling that the IF/VN community isn’t really one for people of color, particularly black people.

Now, I’m one who tries to give credit where credit is due. The creation of ~interact-if … is probably one of the best things I have ever seen in any community (and I’ve been in fandom/written rpg since HS). I’ve also noticed an increase of writers of color feeling comfortable in writing for their culture or having characters of their culture as well as white creators holding themselves accountable. All of that is what keeps me hopeful about improvement regarding IF works but motivates me to one day do my own. That being said, there is still a lot that needs to be addressed regarding the whiteness of IF work and the depiction of characters of color.

I am going to start off by saying something that may come off as kind of harsh. If you know me, you know what I’m going to say, so you can clock out. If you don’t, take a deep breath, feel frustrated, and then let it go to move on: I don’t think uncomfortability with writing about a marginalized group or unfamiliarity with said group is an excuse. I don’t think “well it’s my work, this is what I know/this is what I want to write” is an excuse. 

IF works in the year 2021 are uncomfortably, awkwardly white (and able-bodied, cis, thin, etc). And I do not think there is ANY excuse, ANY actual reason for it to be that way.

I am sure there are several excuses coming to mind (as I said, I’ve been in RP and fanfic for years, I’ve seen them all—heck, I’ve thought them all. I still do think them at times). However, I’ve always held to the belief that every work that is put out into the universe matters. Everything has an impact.  NO work is too small, nothing is too insignificant. Every art has an effect. And if you’re writing a story, telling a tale, something from your heart to share with others you’re trying to affect your environment in some way, you’re trying to say something.

I feel a lot of us—as I said, I include myself in this too—do not consider what we’re saying to our audience when we create works that are mostly white (or when we can’t have a single character or work with numerous characters that are disabled, fat, mentally ill, trans, I can go on). 

If you’re writing a story, I don’t think you can give yourself any pats on the back for having one or two characters of color. I think we’ve moved beyond that type of ‘diversity by numbers’ … especially when the numbers are often piss poor.  I’m seeing IFs where there are three characters of color to six white ROs. Not only is that ‘ratio’ (for lack of a better word) shitty on it’s own, people don’t consider that the actual dynamic is 1:1:1:6. People of color are not a monolith. I, as a black Haitian-American woman, may have similar experiences as an indigenous woman from Canada and a persian person from Iran …. But we are not the same. Yes, it is great to have a diversity of characters. I’m not saying you shouldn’t include people from different backgrounds in your works.

But please consider why it is never the case that there are two Japanese-Brazilians, three black people from Manchester, and a mixed-race Indigenous/Afro-Latina from Queens, and one white person. It is extremely rare to see multiple of one race or ethnicity in an IF if that race isn’t white.

I feel not only is that problem, I believe it is a conversation that needs to be had. Both as a community and as something writers discuss with themselves, as they review their work. 

And that is the tip of the iceberg. We need to have discussions on the tendency of characters of color to have light colored eyes, or the preference of East Asians (and light skinned ones at that) over any other Asian, or the ambiguously brownness of descriptors. We need to talk about white-washing in face claims that directly oppose established descriptions, or how Artbreeder being bad at black people is NOT an excuse for your black character looking similar to the one in three different other IFs (put the effort in). 

We as a community need to have several discussions or else I feel it will be another five years before we’re dragging our feet toward better representation. And that shouldn’t be the case. At all. 

[diamondcitydarlin]

but yeah I guess one of the great things about OFMD and more specifically the Stedward relationship is that it DOES follow all of the beats of romantic slowburn, yes, but also (interestingly) it follows the beats of all the queerbait-y pairings we've watched intently over the years, except it actually delivers on what it's been building up to, and in doing so confirms to anyone that has ever seen these tropes/story beats with a pairing they were told were "NEVER GAY" were actually on to something in what they were seeing. It doesn't just give us representation of queer romance, it gives us a romance that seems carefully written to validate our prior interpretations of other things over the decades, as if to say 'all of these pairings were absolutely on a track to fall in love and the only reason they didn't, openly, is bc the people making it didn't want them to and that's it'

Because that's the other part of the trauma that we've been talking about, isn't it? It's not just a matter of shipping things that never went canon, it's about people in positions of power that we looked up to (often at very vulnerable stages in our lives, like when we were KIDS trying to figure ourselves out) telling us that even our interpretations are fundamentally wrong simply because making the characters queer was never an option in their minds ("like it's fine if people want to write that in fanfic but I, a cishet wasp man, would NEVER imply ANYTHING gay between two men so that was NEVER there OKAY"). And it gets worst past the point when someone figured out fandoms are lucrative and planting beats/tension that could be read differently by enthusiastic fans is beneficial to profit. At that point we're getting intentional suggestion of queerness, often encouraged and egged on during the run of a show via vague comments from creators/writers/actors, and then thusly waved away as something that never existed after the show concludes (or sooner, sometimes). At best, I mean often they just jump straight to ridiculing and sometimes harassing queer fans and anyone who liked that interpretation.

So like okay blah blah "it's just a tv show it ain't that deep" or whatever- or we could follow OFMD's example and stop ignoring the ways capitalism uses the queer identity for profit while exploiting but not in any prioritizing queer fans or their experiences or desires. It really doesn't take a lot of analysis to see how this pattern of behavior in mainstream media towards queer fans, over decades and decades, could be extremely harmful and communicate an attitude of 'nothing about your identity or wishes is important to us in any way, nor is it valid, in fact we find it funny and will make fun of all of you in multiple interviews and tweets :)'. Like, just that. Over and over and over and over again.

So anyway I think it's important that OFMD doesn't just subvert expectations here, but it seems to very intently use those tropes we've lived off of for years and INTENTIONALLY brings them to the conclusion we knew always knew they were reaching (ed and stede falling in love and kissing on screen) as if to say yeah yall were always on to something, you were never wrong or invalid, this is a thing that can happen and should happen and I just think that's neat.

[writingwithcolor]

I'm writing an AU of a movie that takes place in the 1880s USA, where a travelling white character and a Jewish character are waylaid by Native Americans, who they befriend. Probably because it was written by and about PoC (Jews) the scene actually avoids the stuff on your Native American Masterpost, but I'd still like to do better than a movie made in the 1980's, and I feel weird cutting them from the plot entirely. I have a Jewish woman reading it for that, but are there any things you (1/1)

2/2 1880s western movie ask--are there things you'd LIKE to see in a movie where a white man and a Jewish man run into Native Americans in the 1880s? I do plan to base them on a real tribe (Ute, probably) and have proper housing/clothes and so forth, but right now I'm just trying to avoid or subvert awful cowboy movie tropes. Any ideas?

White and Jewish Men, Native American interactions in 1880s

I am vaguely concerned with how you only cite one of our posts about Native Americans, that was not written by a Native person, and do not cite any of the posts relating to this time period, or any posts relating to representation in media. 

Sidenote: if you want us to give accurate reflections of the media you’re discussing, please tell us the NAME. I cannot go look up this movie based off this description to give you an idea of what my issues are with this scene, and must instead trust that the representation is good based off your judgement. I cannot make my own judgement. This is a problem. Especially since your whole question boils down to “this scene is good but not great and I want it to be great. How can I do that?”

Your baseline for “good” could very well be my baseline for “terrible hack job”. I can’t give you the proper education required for you to be able to accurately evaluate the media you’re watching for racist stereotypes if you don’t tell me what you’re even working with.

When you’re writing fanfic where the media is directly relevant to the question, please tell us the name of the media. We will not judge your tastes. We need this information in order to properly help you.

Moving on.

I bring up my concern for you citing that one—exceptionally old—post because it is lacking in many of the tropes that don’t exist in the media critique field but exist in the real world. This is an issue I have run into countless times on WWC (hence further concern you did not cite any other posts) and have spoken about at length. 

People look at the media critique world exclusively, assume it is a complete evaluation of how Native Americans are seen in society, and as a result end up ignoring some really toxic stereotypes and then come to the inbox with “these characters aren’t abc trope, so they’re fine, but I want to rubber stamp them anyway. Anything wrong here?”. The answer is pretty much always yes. 

Issue one: “Waylaid” by Native Americans

This wording is extremely loaded for one reason: Native American people are seen as tricksters, liars, and predators. This is the #1 trope that shows up in the real world that does not show up in media critique. It’s also the trope I have talked about the most when it comes to media representation, so you not knowing the trope is a sign you haven’t read the entirety of the Native tag—which is in the FAQ as something we would really prefer you did before coming at us to answer questions. It avoids us having to re-explain ourselves.

Now, hostility is honestly to be expected for the time period the movie is set in. This is in the beginnings (or ramping up) of residential schools in America* and Canada, we have generations upon generations of stolen or killed children, reserves being allocated perhaps hundreds of miles from sacred sites, and various wars with Plains and Southwest peoples are in full force (Wounded Knee would have happened in 1890, in December, and the Dakoa’s mass execution would have been in 1862. Those are just the big-name wars. There absolutely were others). 

*America covers up its residential schools abuse extremely thoroughly, so if you try to research them in the American context you will come up empty. Please research Canada’s schools and apply the same abuse to America, as Canada has had a Truth and Reconciliation Commission about residential schools and therefore is more (but not completely) transparent about the abuse that happened. Please note that America’s history with residential schools is longer than Canada’s history. There is an extremely large trigger warning for mass child death when you do this research.

But just because the hostility is expected does not mean that this hostility would be treated well in the movie. Especially when you consider the sheer amount of tension between any Native actors and white actors, for how Sacheen Littlefeather had just been nearly beaten up by white actors at the 1973 Academy Awards for mentioning Wounded Knee, and the American Indian Religious Freedom Act had only been passed two years prior in 1978. 

These Native actors would not have had the ability to truly consent to how they were shown, and this power dynamic has to be in your mind when you watch this scene over. I don’t care that the writers were from a discriminated-against background. This does not always result in being respectful, and I’ve also spoken about this power imbalance at length (primarily in the cowboy tag).

Documentaries and history specials made in the 2010s (with some degree of academic muster) will still fall into wording that harkens Indigenous people to wolves and settlers as frightened prey animals getting picked off by the mean animalistic Natives. This is not neutral, or good. This is perpetuating the myth that the settlers were helpless, just doing their own thing completely unobtrusively, and then the evil territorial Native Americans didn’t want to share.

To paraphrase Batman: if I had a week I couldn’t explain all the reasons that’s wrong.

How were these characters waylaid by the Native population? Because that answer—which I cannot get because you did not name the media—will determine how good the framing is. But based on the time period this movie was made alone, I do not trust it was done respectfully.

Issue 2: “Befriending”

I mentioned this was in an intense period of residential schools and land wars all in that area. The Ute themselves had just been massacred by Mormons in the Grass Valley Massacre in 1865, with ten men and an unknown number of women and children killed thanks to a case of assumed association with a war chief (Antonga Black Hawk) currently at war with Utah. The Paiute had been massacred in 1866. Over 100 Timpanogo men had been killed, with an unknown number of women and children enslaved by Brigham Young in Salt Lake City in 1850, with many of the enslaved people dying in captivity (those numbers were not tracked, but I would assume at least two hundred were enslaved— that’s simply assuming one woman/wife and one child for every man, and the numbers could have very well been higher if any war-widows and their children were in the group, not to mention families with multiple children). This is after an unknown group of Indigenous people had been killed by Governor Brigham Young the year prior, to “permanently stop cattle theft” from settlers. 

The number of Native Americans killed in Utah in the 1800s—just the number of dead counted (since women and children weren’t counted)—in massacres not tied to war (because there was at least one war) is over 130. The actual number of random murders is much higher; between the uncounted deaths and how the Governor had issued orders to “deal with” the problem of cattle theft permanently. I doubt you would have been tried or convicted if you murdered Indigenous peoples on “your” land. This is why it’s called state sanctioned genocide.

This is not counting the Black Hawk War in Utah (1865-1872), which the Ute were absolutely a part of (the wiki articles I read were contradictory if Antonga Black Hawk was Ute or Timpanogo, but the Ute were part of it). The first official massacre tied to the war—the Bear River Massacre, ordered by the US Military—places the death count of just that singular massacre at over five hundred Shoshone, including elders, women, and children. It would not be unreasonable to assume that the number of Indigenous people killed in Utah from 1850, onward, is over a thousand, perhaps two or three.

Pardon me for not reading beyond that point to list more massacres and simply ballparking a number; the source will be linked for you to get an accurate number of dead.

So how did they befriend the Native population? Let alone see them as fully human considering the racism of the time period? Natives were absolutely not seen as fully human so long as they were tied to their culture, and assimilation equalling some sliver of respect was already a stick being waved around as a threat. This lack of humanity continues to the present day.

I’m not saying friendship is impossible. I am saying the sheer levels of mistrust that would exist between random wandering groups of white/pale men and Indigenous communities wouldn’t exactly make that friendship easy. Having the scene end be a genuine friendship feels ignorant and hollow and flattening of ongoing genocide, because settlers lied about their intentions and then lined you up for slauther (that’s how the Timpanogo were killed and enslaved).

Utah had already done most of its mass killing by this point. The era of trusting them was over. There was an active open hunting season, and the acceptable targets were the Indigenous populations of Utah.

(sources for the numbers: 

List of Indian Massacres in North America Black Hawk War (1865-1872))

Issue 3: “Proper housing/clothes and so forth”

Do you mean Western style settlements and jeans? If yes, congratulations you have written a reservation which means the land-ripped-away wounds are going to be fresh, painful, and sore.

You do not codify what you mean by “proper”, and proper is another one of those deeply loaded colonial words that can mean “like a white man” or “appropriate for their tribe.” For the time period, it would be the former. Without specifying which direction you’re going for, I have no idea what you’re imagining. And without the name of the media, I don’t know what the basis of this is.

The reservation history of this time period seems to maybe have some wiggle room; there were two reservations allocated for the Ute at this time, one made in 1861 and another made in 1882 (they were combined into the Uintah and Ouray Indian Reservation in 1886). This is all at the surface level of a google and wikipedia search, so I have no idea how many lived in the bush and how many lived on the reserve. 

There were certainly land defenders trying to tell Utah the land did not belong to them, so holdouts that avoided getting rounded up were certainly possible. But these holdouts would be far, far more hostile to anyone non-Native.

The Ute seemed to be some degree of lucky in that the reserve is on some of their ancestral territory, but any loss of land that large is going to leave huge scars. 

It should be noted that reserves would mean the traditional clothing and housing would likely be forbidden, because assimilation logic was in full force and absolutely vicious at this time. 

It’s a large reserve, so the possibility exists they could have accidentally ended up within the borders of it. I’m not sure how hostile the state government was for rounding up all the Ute, so I don’t know if there would have been pockets of them hiding out. In present day, half of the Ute tribe lives on the reserve, but this wasn’t necessarily true historically—it could have been a much higher percentage in either direction.

It’s up to you if you want to make them be reservation-bound or not. Regardless, the above mentioned genocide would have been pretty fresh, the land theft in negotiations or already having happened, and generally, the Ute would be well on their way to every assimilation attempt made from either residential schools, missionaries, and/or the forced settlement and pre-fab homes.

To Answer Your Question

I don’t want another flattened, sanitized portrayal of genocide.

Look at the number of dead above, the amount of land lost above, the amount of executive orders above. And try to tell me that these people would be anything less than completely and totally devastated. Beyond traumatized. Beyond broken hearted. Absolutely grief stricken with almost no soul left.

Their religion would have been illegal. Their children would have been stolen. Their land was taken away. A saying about post-apocalyptic fiction is how settler-based it is, because Indigenous people have already lived through their own apocalypse.

It would have all just happened at the time period this story is set in. All of the grief you feel now at the environment changing so drastically that you aren’t sure how you’ll survive? Take that, magnify it by an exponential amount because it happened, and you have the mindset of these Native characters.

This is not a topic to tread lightly. This is not a topic to read one masterpost and treat it as a golden rule when there is too much history buried in unmarked, overfull graves of school grounds and cities and battlefields. I doubt the movie you’re using is good representation if it doesn’t even hint at the amount of trauma these Native characters would have been through in thirty years.

A single generation, and the life that they had spent millennia living was gone. Despite massive losses of life trying to fight to preserve their culture and land.

Learn some history. That’s all I can tell you. Learn it, process it, and look outside of checklists. Look outside of media. 

And let us have our grief.

~ Mod Lesya

On Question Framing

Please allow me the opportunity to comment on “are there things you'd LIKE to see in a movie where a white man and a Jewish man run into Native Americans in the 1880s?” That strikes me as the same type of question as asking what color food I’d like for lunch. I don’t see how the cultural backgrounds of characters I have literally no other information about is supposed to make me want anything in particular about them. I don’t know anything about their personalities or if they have anything in common.

Compare the following questions:

“Are there things you’d like to see in a movie where two American women, one from a Nordic background and one Jewish, are interacting?” I struggle to see how our backgrounds are going to yield any further inspiration. It certainly doesn’t tell you that we’re both queer and cling to each other’s support in a scary world; it doesn’t tell you that we uplift each other through mental illness; it doesn’t go into our 30 years of endless bizarre inside jokes related to everything from mustelids to bad subtitles.

Because: “white”, “Jewish”, and “Native American” aren’t personality words. You can ask me what kind of interaction I’d like to see from a high-strung overachieving woman and a happy-go-lucky Manic Pixie Dream Girl, and I’ll tell you I’d want fluffy f/f romance. Someone else might want conflict ultimately resolving in friendship. A third person might want them slowly getting on each other’s nerves more and more until one becomes a supervillain and the other must thwart her. But the same question about a cultural demographic? That told me nothing about the people involved.

Also, the first time I meet a new person from a very different culture, it might take weeks before discussion of our specific cultural differences comes up. As a consequence, my first deep conversations with a Costa Rican American gentile friend were not about Costa Rica or my Jewishness but about things we had in common: classical music and coping with breakups--which are obviously conversations I could have had if we were both Jewish, both Costa Rican gentiles, or both something else. So in other words, I’m having trouble seeing how knowing so little about these characters is supposed to give me something to want to see on the page.

Thank you for understanding.

(And yes, I agree with Lesya, what’s with this trend of people trying to explain their fandom in a roundabout way instead of mentioning it by name? It makes it harder to give meaningful help….)

--Shira