#anyways i love her most in batgirl 2000

[sporkberries]

I really like Barbara Gordon but sometimes reading comics with her from the 90′s and 00′s can be SO irritating... Like okay i love her as oracle and it’s her best role but DC has this tendency to sometimes make women really catty and toxic to be quirky and its so UGHHH

[franollie]

i finished batgirl (2000) and i loved it so muchhhh i cant even put it into words aaaaaahhhh

anyways do you have any more recs for Cass, Steph or Babs bc i need more (also any fic recs too?)

OKOK so I recommend this reading list for both steph and cass by @/jlquarterly. they also have a more condensed reading list for steph and cass individually as well as more extensive ones for them too. overall just a great account to follow if you need reading lists.

Some overall reads that I recommend:

Cass:

Batman (1940) #567

Detective Comics (1937) #734

(No Man's Land in general is a good read for cass but these are considered her first appearances)

DC First: Batgirl/Joker

Superboy (1994) #85 (i love this issue it is very dear to me)

Steph:

Detective Comics (1937) #647-649

Secret Origins 80 Page Giant

honestly all of Robin 1993 starting with issue #3

Robin (1993) #88 (Steph and Cass first meeting)

Batman: Huntress/Spoiler- Blunt Trauma (HELENA AND STEPH YIPPEEE)

Batgirl (2009)

Babs:

The Batman Chronicles #5 (Oracle: Year One)

All of Birds of Prey 1999

General "batgirls" recs:

Convergence: Batgirl

Steph works in the medical field, the writers acknowledge her pregnancy, its about her relationship with the batgirl mantle, steph and cass live together and have a pet rat together, it's literally perfect

Batgirls

This is where we play the "pick and choose from canon" game

Fics:

Let's Not Talk About It by Procrastinationfairy

T - 4k

Summary: cass explores how words fail to describe feelings, especially in terms of attraction.

MAJOR CHARACTER DEATH

God this fic....here to start. I'm obsessed with the way it tackles cass’s feelings for steph and the lack of language she would have for her emotions…insane...Her anger at tim for not “properly mourning” steph

If taken, I'm yours by evanescent

T - 8k

Summary: Sheer determination is not everything, though, and after exactly eight seconds Stephanie finds herself laying flat on her back after getting knocked down with a very real-feeling baseball bat. For a moment, she thinks the strange sound is her ears ringing, but then she sits up and finds Batgirl standing next to Batman, her shoulder shaking slightly. She’s laughing, Stephanie realizes. Batgirl must catch her staring because she makes a quick, swiping motion with her hand.

“I think,” Batman says, and Stephanie wonders if she has a concussion after all, because he kind of sounds amused, “she’s telling you to be faster.”

In a world when you have your soulmate's first words to you imprinted in their handwriting somewhere on your body, the fact Stephanie can't decipher hers seems like the least of her problems, most of the time.

A really sweet rewrite of Steph as batgirl

ALSO EMILY DICKINSONS POETRY PLAYS A REALLY BIG ROLE IN THIS <3333

heroes and thieves at my door (i can't seem to tell them apart anymore) by hinn_raven

T - 4k

Summary: Bruce really can’t help but think that Stephanie Brown, pre-medicine, piano player, and honors student, with Leslie vouching for her, would be a far better girlfriend for his daughter than Spoiler, the new vigilante in town.

This one has me kicking and giggling every time i read it

It's delightful and funny and just an overall good time

Now Stick It Thick by thebodydies

E - 1k

Summary: Cass’s body always did exactly what Cass wanted. And now Steph’s body did as well.

nobody look at me

Highly recommend checking out all of Hinn_Raven's works especially if you're a steph fan!

[aingeal98]

Maybe it's because I got into DC stuff late via Batfam fan stuff and Stephanie stuff (StephCass if we're being honest), but I feel like if you're a fan of Stephanie Brown or Cassandra Cain you have like, an 85% chance of being a fan of the other. A PB&J situation, if you will. They don't have to go together but BOY DO THEY.

(Also my spiral into DC and being a Stephanie Brown fan I partially have you to thank for so, thank you. You rock.)

I'M SORRY THIS TOOK ME SO LONG TO REPLY TO but yes 100% agree like I got into batfam primarily for Cass but Steph was so charming in their issues together that I was like oh her. I like her a lot.

Like both have so much going on outside each other that's fascinating to dive into but it also all feeds into their dynamic with each other in a way that when written well can just be so fun to explore. Two fully formed characters in their own right that when combined can cause so much chaos and so many emotions and I love them for it.

Like there are certain comic book characters that when they're a dick to my faves it drags down my enjoyment of them, often because they're not being written deliberately as a dick they're just the writer's specialist little boy and he thinks this is a good way of showing how cool his male fave is. Meanwhile with Steph and Cass (and Babs back in batgirl 2000) I always felt like the tension and conflict between the three of them made me like them all even more. It was fun to explore! Everyone was so mean to Steph for no good reason but the batgirl writers I feel like had the most self awareness about this not being a Steph flaw but a Cass flaw, if that makes sense? Whereas so many other writers of that era... yeah I won't even get into that now.

But anyways yes. They're both such good characters and I can't wait to infiltrate DC and write my Cass road to Batman storyline which includes her tackling her past with Steph.

[gamesception]

Sception Reads Cass Cain #36

Batgirl (2000) #16 - July 2001 Writer: Puckett Pencils: Scott Inks: Campanella Colors: Wright

Another solo one shot, another resonant and memorable stand alone story that Cass fans from back in the day will remember clearly. Got a bit more time to work with, gonna try and pull some more images this time, because the art in this one is just really good. Honestly, this issue is peak early days Batgirl - the kind of story she was literally made to tell, and it's really well executed. If I had to pick a single issue of Cass's entire Batgirl run as sort of a 'this is what she's all about' encapsulation for someone completely new to Cass and her book, this would be on the short list. If you've never read her ongoing before, i strongly recommend you actually read the issue for yourself before the summary here.

The issue opens on a bunch of kids playing a mean game where they throw a rat in the air and get points if it lands in a circle they drew on the ground. The nerd in my has to point out that it's kind of unrealistic. Rats aren't quite as fall resistant as, say, cats, but while they could be hurt or maybe even killed by a fall from only as high as a grade school kid could throw them, most are going to scamper away and none are going to land so badly that they splatter like a water balloon.

Anyway, it's gross and its cruel but also kind of cute as the kids argue about the rules and 'nuh uh' each other, and Scott draws their faces really expressively, and the whole scene starts with a rat silhouetted in front of the moon mid toss in an image that's as aesthetically compelling as it is disturbing in context before plummeting back down

I could talk about how Cass is flying high through the city as Batgirl while her mental state is hurtling towards a painful crash, but that's probably reading too much into it.

Anyway, after the first splat there's this kind of cool sequence where the next kid throws the rat up and they all run back and look down at the circle...

Only the rat never comes down, and when they look up like 'where did it go?' there's Cass

The image of Cass swooping down from above with the kids all looking up is pretty cool, and the way the panels create a pacing for the scene is really good. Effective storytelling through sequential art.

Cass drops down, and the kids scatter. Not a situation that needs any more intervention then that, and we get a nice panel showing just her hands and feet as she crouches down to gently let the rat go. A pretty standard inverse kick-the-dog moment to establish Cass as the good guy by having her be nice to an animal, but for those who have been reading along from the first issues of her book it also reminds us of how Bruce once praised her for being 'gentle', and how despite everything that's happened that part of her is still in there.

As the other kids scatter, one stays behind to kick off the main plot for the issue. I like how awkward Cass is here, towering over this kid when she's used to being around allies and enemies taller than herself, not knowing how to talk to him.

Also, I haven't talked about it in a bit, but I just really love the way Scott draws Cass as Batgirl? Her proportions with her big head emphasizing her youth. The way you can make out her expressions despite the full face mask - and the way he gives her the same expressions that he gives Bruce. Her prominent jaw line making her feel tough and defiant and stubborn. The way you can make out her expression through the mask, the sleek lines of how her cape drapes from her neck to the point shoulders and then down, or the way the cape flows when he draws her in motion, all with an oil-slick feel that likely owes as much to Campanella's inking as to Scott's pencil work.

There are aspects of how others draw Cass in her batgirl suit that I like - most recently I love how Leonardo Romero draws the pointy ears on her cowl in the recent Birds of Prey run, it gives Cass a retro feel that really fits his vintage newspaper comic aesthetic. But Scott's version of Cass-as-Batgirl is always how I'll see the character in my mind.

The kid, Tim, takes Cass back to his home, a messy apartment with a mattress just dropped on the floor. You can feel the poverty, and start to form an image of this kid's dad in your head as, like, a decent man pushed into crime by desperation to provide for his kid.

An impression that Tim then explicitly reinforces.

The scene cuts to the bank mid robbery, and we meet someone who seems to fit the mold - Jake. The way Scott draws Jake's expressions, you can tell he doesn't want to be there, and when asked what he's going to do with the money they steal, he just says he's going to pay some bills. But when a security guard surprises them, Jake is startled and shoots him, almost by accident....

The boss, Chaco, compliments Jake on the kill, rubbing in how this isn't a guy who would normally do something like that with the 'didn't think you had it in you' line, and as they walk away you can see how horrified Jake is at what he's done.

In contrast, Chaco shows just how comfortable he is with killing by shooting one of his own guys point blank when he realizes the guy was stealing traceable jewelry from the vault, the way the panel suddenly goes red, and Chaco's calm expression just the panel before, emphasizing how sharp and sudden the violence is.

Chaco's a professional. Ruthless and dispassionate, about the job, about killing, even with his allies. He clearly didn't even feel any malice towards the guy he shot - he was downright friendly with all of his crew, even Jake, just a few panels ago, and that friendliness was probably even genuine. But this guy became a liability, and Chaco doesn't have any time or pity for liabilities.

It's around this time that they notice Jake is missing. More liabilities.

A couple of the crew find Jake in an alley, overwhelmed by guilt over killing that security guard, and again, I just have to say, the art in this issue is really good. The perspective in that first panel looking down, with the shadows stretching forward guns first, the expressions on Jake and the guy who has a gun drawn on him, the detail on the background cobblestones & brickwork. All really good.

Anyway, this is when Cass shows up, in terrifying shadow form, knocking out the two goons with the guns in as many panels.

Cass sees Jake, like us assumes he's Tim's dad, and takes pity on him. For Tim's sake.

But Jake is overwhelmed by guilt.

Guilt is one thing Cass understands.

Tim wanted Cass to stop his dad before he did something bad, something he wouldn't be able to forgive himself for, something Tim wouldn't be able to forgive him for. But Cass was too late. Once again, she's failed.

Only, Tim isn't Jake's son.

He's Chaco's son.

Chaco the remorseless killer. Chaco who can be friendly one moment and commit murder the next. Cass wasn't too late to stop Tim's dad from doing something bad, Tim's dad had been bad the whole time.

And bad dads are also something Cass understands.

I need to take a step out of the story for a moment here though to talk again about how Scott draws Cass, and in particular the bit about conveying her facial expressions through the mask. Scroll up a bit and look at the downcast resignation on her face when Jake says he has to pay for what he's done, then the surprise when he says he isn't Tim's father, and then the absolute fury here.

The expressions are so vivid, and carry so much of the load when it comes to conveying Cass's thoughts and emotions and personality.

Bringing back another old chestnut of this blog, Cass can speak now, and think in words and sentences, but there are no thought bubbles or narration blocks in the entire issue. The book just doesn't need them, not when Scott's Art is able to put everything going on in these characters heads right on their faces.

Cass lays into Chaco, stopping only when she realizes he's already unconscious, and you can feel the sharp snap of her attacks in how the panels are layed out.

Bringing back another old chestnut, the action panels are practically perfunctory. They're there, and they're good, but there's no back and forth, there's never any question of the bank robbers so much as landing a hit on Cass. Who will win in a physical fight was never where the story's tension was. It was all about the emotional stakes.

Tim arrives on scene just in time to see his dad carted off on a stretcher to the hospital, and as Cass takes him home he looks back, through the spikes on her gauntlet, as through through the prison bars that are going to separate him from his father for the rest of his life.

And the last page is this somber, heartbreaking moment of Cass trying to console Tim that just because his father is a bad person, doesn't mean he is too, and it's obvious that Cass is thinking about herself and David Cain here, but while I might be reading too much into the panel, the way Cass's shadow forms Bruce's symbol to me draws attention to the fact that Cass has two fathers, and just because one of them isn't a murderer doesn't mean he isn't also bad.

...

So yeah, this really is more or less the archetypal Cass Cain Batgirl (2000) issue. A somber, contemplative tone. Street level / no super-villains or over the top scenarios. A focus on the individual humanity of the minor characters, including criminals who would be faceless mooks in any other bat book. Story and characterization conveyed through expressive artwork and deliberate panel use rather than blunt narration, taking advantage of the specific strengths of the comic medium. Violence and action scenes sharp, short and snappy rather than heavily drawn out, with the main conflict grounded in personal and emotional stakes. Narrative themes - guilt, parenthood - that tie directly back to Cassandra's core themes, history, and character motivations. All concisely contained within a single issue episode that works as a stand alone story.

Although there might be a bit too much emphasis on the stand alone part. Sometimes Cass's stories do come back to be referenced again later, we'll have an example of that next week, but we never see Tim again, we never see Cass following up or checking on him which is kind of a shame.

[whelmed-birdie]

Comic List + Thoughts

so basically i'm just gonna compile a list of all the comics i've read and write a little commentary about them - this is mostly for my own benefit because my memory is pitiful so i need physical evidence of what i've read.

Nightwing Vol. 1: Leaping into the Light (2021)

I enjoyed this! I think it was a good beginner point for the most part because i came here with an interest mostly in Nightwing. I liked the art, and while i was a bit confused bc i knew next to nothing about this universe, so therefore did not understand any of the references they made. i still enjoyed it, the writers keep new readers in mind, and don't necessarily regret reading it first.

Robin/Batgirl: Year One (2002)

this one was good too. I got a bit bored at times but it was a good introduction to batgirl/barbara and how she started and got to be involved with the bats. (basically them just following her around while Barbara's like 'leave me alone tf')

Batman: Dark Victory (1999-2000)

also pretty good, I was kinda bored until Dick came in (mostly because he's the character i've really become invested in so far) but i loved seeing the very beginning of his character. sidenote: i love alfred

Batman Chronicles: The Gauntlet (1997)

this one was fun to read! I dont have a whole lot of commentary on it but it was more good backstory and seeing dick as robin.

Robin and Batman (2022)

I LOVED the artwork. watercolor is loml. but about the actual story: i also enjoyed it. Baby Dick is unhinged i love it. also it was the beginning of me not really liking batman??? i wasnt really expecting that... WFA led me astray :') and honestly that dislike just carries on the more i read so idk whats going on

Teen Titans: Year One (2008)

MY JAW DROPPED. bro when batman straight up hit Dick i was BAFFLED. like i know he was mind controlled and what not but bro why is batman such an ass to dick??? like even after the mind control is gone like hes still just so?? like shut up and let this 13 year old have fun with his friends wtf. anyways i dont like him, sorry, but if im just reading the ooc comics then lmk but so far im 👎🏼 on batman

Teen Titans (1966)

I only read issues #1 to get the intro, and then #14 because i heard it was dick centered. I wish i liked the older comics more than i do but i'm not mad i read them. I do enjoy the titans storyline and characters though so i will definitely read more to do with them

The New Teen Titans (1980)

I dabbled but i cant tell you which issues i read- again i think i need to get used to reading comics as a whole and come back to the older ones :')

Nightwing: Year One (1996)

so i've almost finished this one! Its #101-106 and i'm on #105 rn. again I DON'T LIKE BATMAN. like he's such a man-child. he literally 'fired' and yelled at this 13 year old kid for helping his friends save people instead of being with him like okay bitch. but anyways i like this! its more good backstory plus him going back to the circus was a nice touch. also the nightwing origin!!! dick going to superman for advice :') I like it.

okay thats all i got so far, I'm excited to keep reading. I have definitely spent too much time worrying about backstory and reading orders ( ik i don't have to bc continuity is relative but my brain just wont let me go out of order) but i've gotten a reading list that i'm pretty comfortable with. Also pretty soon ill be reading more with the batfam (specifically batkids) and im excited for that!! (the batkids are most of the reason im here tbh...especially now bc batman is...not my favorite)

okay thats all :)

i might add to this as i go i might not, we shall see.

[fantastic-nonsense]

Hello! I was wondering if you had any recommendations for series/runs which feature Babs as Oracle. I've only been reading since rebirth and while I've read some older series, I've not read any that focus on her. I'd like to check out more of those! Love your blog, btw

I have just remembered that you have a pinned message. looks like Birds of prey 1999 is what I want to be reading! TY <3

Hi! Glad to see you found the pinned post, but I'd be happy to rec some stuff anyway! Besides Birds of Prey, which is the main title she starred in from 1999-2011, if you want stories featuring Babs as Oracle you might want to check out the following:

Suicide Squad (1987) #38, the initial reveal of Barbara as Oracle, and the Out of Control arc (#48-49), a really fascinating Babs-focused story

Oracle: Year One (Batman Chronicles #5): the story of Barbara's recovery and first days as Oracle

Nightwing: The Hunt for Oracle (Nightwing #45-46 and Birds of Prey #20-21), a fun Dick and Babs story

Batgirl Vol. 1 (2000-2006): Cassandra Cain's Batgirl run, where Babs mentors Cass and becomes a mother figure to her. While this series technically doesn't focus on her, it contains some of Barbara's most important character work outside of BOP 1999.

Batgirl Vol. 3 (2009-2011): Stephanie Brown's Batgirl run, where Babs mentors her and becomes a bit of a big sister figure; she also becomes a mentor to the newly disabled Wendy Harris during this run. Again, this doesn't technically center Babs, but she's a major character and gets a dual narration with Steph most of the time.

Batman: The Black Mirror (2011), which stars Dick as Batman and centers the Gordon family

Also fun reading: the No Man's Land saga, the Bruce Wayne: Murderer?/Fugitive event, and JLA (1997-2006), where Oracle frequently pops up to help and/or run Justice League operations

I'd also like to recommend the YA graphic novels The Oracle Code, which is focused on Babs as she recovers and goes through physical therapy, and Shadow of the Batgirl, which is focused on Cass but has Babs in a major role as an independent wheelchair user and one of Cass's mentors.

Hope you enjoy reading!

[lesbianbarbaragordon]

1 5 20 27 for the comic ask game!!!!

hiii moss so sorry i took so long. im so slow at this stuff, even though i love doing it hehe. thanks again for submitting !!!<3

Who's your favorite character and why?

Oh man I have a problem with choosing faves bc i'm just so indecisive !!! I usually analyze characters and get to appreciate their themes and personalities aka how well they are written, so it's so hard for me to dismiss others in favour of A Single One... bc i genuinely appreciate so many characters...

i usually have a character rotation in my brain honestly... this week it's bruce... last week it was barbara... damian... cass... tim... jason... helena... kate... all of these characters are so interesting to me... and they all tackle different things and have different personalities...

i think that in general, though, i tend to gravitate towards characters with interesting moral dilemmas... especially if they are complex and i get to play around with their actions and feelings.... i like to think as a hobbie, as weird as that sounds LOL

so i think that my final veredict is gonna be: jason and bruce (barbara is a close second)

5. What's your favorite comic book sibling relationship?

hmmmmm, i'd need to read more comics for this bc lately ive mostly been reading solo runs, but if i had to say any so far i think it's helena and tim (does this count? it counts)

i think the way they bounce off each other is soso funny, tim is the most unsufferable little gremlin to her and helena has to put up with it. he looks her up and annoys her but they would both take a bullet for each other. do u know what i mean? that's real young brother/older sister ism

20. If you were given a comic run for character [x], what would you write about?

Jason. I'm sorry.

I know I'd be able to write about Kate (in which case I'd write about lesbianism) or Barbara (in which case I'd write about girl rage) and even about Steph (more girl rage) but there's something so enticing to me about Jason

Because to an extent u can't *not* empathize with him during utrh, he has a point even if barely, and the way he's grown to see the world and his ideals comes from the tragedy of his death and resurrection and his subsequent feelings about it, about bruce, about himself and gotham and u need the slightest bit of compassion ontop of all the condemnation of his wrongdoings to make it right

like. there are *so* many examples where writers have resorted to demonizing him and butchering what he wants and what he says it's kind of frustrating. and i think the way forward to truly giving the jason from utrh what he needs, not what he wants is soso interesting and full of posibilities to explore

i want him to see the other side of the coin, i want him to come to terms with what the use of violence means and where that puts him, i want him to be questioned, to be faced with the consequences of what he did in utrh, to reach his own conclusions and find out what he wants isn't what will make him right again. i want him to come to terms with his own tragedy and the way he's destroyed himself to prove a point, to see how symilar he is to bruce and how that should tell him all he needs to know.

sorry. im very insane about him. anyways hope this was comprehensible hehe ^__^

27. Any comic runs you've been meaning to read?

Ooooh man, so many... soso many !!!

robin 1993 don't think i've forgotten about you !!! i rlly wanna pick this up and keep reading abt tim. he's my dearest little freak

batgirl 2000. for obvious reasons hehe

no man's land. i have faith in rucka and what he can write. @ moss u are also obsessed with this and i wanna talk abt it with u<3 so i'm rlly impatient to finally delve on it hehe, especially bc i know it's cass' first introduction ^__^

birds of prey. dinah lance and barbara gordon i will love u forever !!! im very excited to read about female superheroes bc they have a way to worm into my brain so deeply... i love female characters

batman: batman and son. ummmm i started this the other day but i have to keep going. i know all about the morrison racism... sigh... but it introduces damian my pookie nevertheless so i rlly wanted to check it out.

along the same line is resurrection of ra's al ghul and batman and robin (2009)

also some iconic stuff like bruce wayne murderer? fugitive, the man who laughs, hush, etc.

young justice (1998) for a healthy dose of tim :) also timkon. and cassie who i rlly wanna meet !!!

saga of the supersons pretty much because I think Jon is adorable and I like Damian, haven't finished it yet but i want at least to get to the end of it, even if some stuff is a little.. mediocre and uninspired

i also wanna read some stuff featuring christ kent and especially lois lane, i think she's a fantastic character and i'd love to delve deeper into her hehe

i think that's kinda everything... thanks for submitting again mwah !!! i love talking about comics (original ask game here)

[sohotthateveryonedied]

Feel free to ignore this if you're not feeling up to it or something, but I was wondering if you know any panels where the batkids are shown mourning each other's deaths? I feel like most of what I see is the effect it has on Bruce. Anyway thank you, and three cheers for the stuff you're doing. The nerd inside me loves a good comprehensive masterpost.

everyone knows the perfect way to kick off pride month is by compiling panels of the batkids mourning each other's deaths, of course

ALRIGHT SO HERE'S WHAT I'VE GOT:

(i'm doing this thing chronologically so i'm starting with jason's death, then steph's, then damian's, etc.)

Mourning Jason:

Believe it or not, Dick took Jason's death really hard once he found out. I know the DC writers want you to think that Dick and Jason hated each other when they met, but Dick truly cared about Jason and grieved his death just as much as Bruce did.

New Teen Titans #5

Jason and Barbara were each other's Robin and Batgirl, so Barbara took the news of his death pretty hard as well. She and her dad showed up at Jason's funeral and everything.

Gotham Knights #44

Mourning Stephanie:

We all know how Tim's mental health took a plunge after he lost Steph (and everyone else he cared about, whoops), so he grieved her pretty much every day until it was revealed that she was alive roughly a year later. Steph's death pushed Tim to become a darker version of himself, and he even devoted himself to finding a way to bring her back during the "Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul" storyline. Because self-care is resurrecting your dead loved ones while mid-breakdown <3

Robin #156

Nightwing (1996) #139

Steph was Cass' first friend, as well as the first person she lost who actually meant something to her. She spent a long period of time grieving Stephanie after War Games, so she and Tim leaned on each other while they were both operating in Bludhaven, since they were both going through the same pain.

Batgirl (2000) #58

Mourning Damian:

Damian is probably right up there with Jason in terms of being one of the most impactful Robin deaths. His loss touched pretty much everyone—especially Dick, up until Dick faked his death and everyone had yet another loss to mourn.

Batman Incorporated #9

Nightwing (2011) #18

Jason wasn't really shown mourning Damian's death himself, so much as he was there to support everyone else in their grief. He knew what kind of an impact losing a son would have on Bruce and the others, so Jason did what he could to be there for them and help them through it.

Justice League (2011) #19

For all that Tim and Damian claimed to hate each other, Tim did care a lot about Damian and took his death extremely hard to the point where he hallucinated Damian's ghost and gave us that well-known hug scene between the two.

Teen Titans (2011) #18

Mourning Dick:

There sadly aren't many examples of the batkids grieving Dick after his "death," mostly because the plan to have him fake his death and go undercover as a spy was a pretty late decision, and the writers for the other series didn't have time to change up the scripts and show the characters giving Dick's loss the attention it deserved at the time.

Barbara was shown missing Dick shortly after his death, even if the reference was a little small compared to how it should have been when you think about their history and the impact his death should have had on her.

Batgirl (2011) #30

What gets my blood boiling is that we were supposed to get the funeral Dick deserved in the originally planned 2011 Nightwing series finale. There were plans for a huge farewell comic in which all of Dick's loved ones attended his funeral, and then the end of the comic was going to reveal that Dick was actually alive and going off to play spy. Sadly, this comic was scrapped because DC hates us and doesn't want us to be happy.

The original Nightwing #30 comic was supposed to include stuff like Jason and Tim realizing that they are now the last of the Robins, Roy crying over Dick's (fake) dead body, Barbara and Tim holding hands as they grieve together, Jason actually loving and missing his brother, hugs all around, and a bunch more that ended up being replaced with a stupid comic of Bruce and Dick beating the shit out of each other. Sigh.

Nightwing (2011) #30 Original Artwork

Mourning Tim:

Tim was...sort of grieved properly? He got more than Dick did, at least. 

We saw everyone’s initial reactions when Tim got annihilated by the drones, so that was a nice sad moment.

Detective Comics #940

While Dick treated Tim like little more than a coworker after the reboot instead of the brother he used to love, he was shown at least respecting Tim and being moderately sad about his death.

Deathstroke (2016) #34

Jason didn’t attend Tim’s funeral, but it’s clear that he does genuinely miss him and feel guilty about not being there for him when it counted.

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016) #3

Miraculously, Damian is shown having more feelings about Tim’s death than most of the others in the Batfamily. Sure he’s a little snot about it, (taking over the Teen Titans and making them better than they were when Tim was leading them), but it was done with love, okay? It counts.

Teen Titans (2016) #1

Tim’s death had a huge impact on Steph (obviously; they were in love and all), and actually led to her getting a pretty interesting character arc so yay! Tim got fridged so Steph could get some awesome character development, I’m so proud of her <3

Detective Comics #943

Detective Comics #946

Aaaand that’s all I’ve got! Lots of drama, lots of angst, lots of grief. Hell yeah.

[allthingsbatfam]

updated batfam (mostly speculated) ages!!

my old one was a weird mix of pre rebirth and rebirth lol

pre-rebirth

alfred is God.

bruce is, i’d love to say 50, but i think he’s mid to late 40s pre52. ie he has been batman for too long.

dick and babs are roughly the same age, though i know babs is slightly older than him. they’re probably 27 and 30 respectively or something along those lines (they are not 25 idc)

jason’s age is messy due to being resurrected but i think ranges from 21 to 23. some say he’s in his very late teens but i find that hard to believe.

cass was 18 by the end of her 2000s batgirl run so she should be 21 at the very least. she’s supposed to be 8 months older than jason but him being 21 barely makes sense. her being 23 doesn’t seem so impossible, i guess.

duke… did duke exist pre-rebirth? i really don’t know, i’ve only read his detective comics stuff.

steph’s 18, i think. i know she’s in college and depending on the comic has already graduated (but i think those are future arcs). 19 makes the most sense, however we must take into account her relationship with timmy.

tim’s usually headcanoned as 17 because i don’t think he has ever said he is any other age, but i feel like he’d be older than that by now. ignoring the fact that he’s drawn as a grown man in most comics, i think he’s 18.

damian is… 12-14, i think. i read somewhere that his aging was sped up?? is that real?? is that pre-rebirth?? anyways, he is still the baby of the family and always will be.

post-rebirth

alfred is… dead.

bruce seems more likely to be in his 50s now.

dick and babs are probably still the same age as pre-rebirth but possibly aged down by 1 or 2 years (or maybe it’s just the drawing style).

jason has to be mid to early 20s, no less.

cass is 18 now. she’s supposed to be around tim’s age, and she just has 18y/o vibes.

duke is probably 17-18. i think he’s in high school and is cass’ age. i haven’t read his we are robin run.

steph is 18, like before. i so want to say she’s older but stupid tim won’t grow !!

tim is back to 17. at least in some comics he actually looks his age now.

damian’s still 12-14, he is baby.

[deadletterpoets]

I know that Barbara’s relationship with Tim as her little brother figure is a thing but I always felt like the relationships between Helena Bertinelli and Tim was really under appreciated. In hindsight he also had a relationship with Koriand’r as well. I guess what I’m trying to say is that Tim was a little bro to a lot of other characters other than just Barbara Gordon.

I haven't read enough Pre52 little brother Tim to have a big opinion on that (most of my Tim knowledge of that time is from his appearances in Batgirl 2000 and the Cass issues of Red Robin) but that doesn't surprise me.

A lot of the relationships the batfam had with characters outside the batfam (and even some within the batfam) have been lost thanks to the New52 and it sucks how none of the writers care to bring it back in anyway. But it also isn't surprising since so many of those characters are basically different characters so their development isn't gonna go the same way. Plus Damian has kinda taken the whole "little brother of the batfam" to everyone so *also* doing it with Tim is redundant.

Though just to remind ppl on how much of a rotating love interest Babs is used never forget the Arkham Games had Babs and Tim as a romantic couple. Like Babs would lower her standards to date a dude that looked like this

[greycappedjester]

What is your take on Barbara in your Young Justice story? As in what comics or shows inspired you? Also, how is she handling(i don't know another word) her feeling for Dick? From what I can take is that she still loves him; she wants him to be happy and will do things for him to accomplish that. Idk i don't think she has time to really "move on" even if she tried because she will always be there for him... along with the other bat-family

Thank you so much! Hmmm, I love Babs a lot but I’m trying to think of where I primarily draw her character from--probably a mix of her Oracle days, Birds of Prey, some Batgirl Year One, with a bit of fandom in general, Young Justice (ofc), and the Batman animated show I watched when I was younger. Anything that shows Barbara as competent, efficient, a badass but also clearly cares about her family and the people she works with. She’s such a great example of a character that can both act marvelously and unhesitatingly in a support role without making supporting others seem lesser in any way--because really how would any of the Batfamily in the 90s-early 2000s get anything done without her--while also being a hero/ main character in her own right (with Oracle and Birds of Prey).

For how she’s dealing with her feelings--I think what you said is fair: she loves him, she wants him to be happy and is glad that he seems to be with Kory, she does have trouble moving on completely because they always work together. It’s essentially Barbara’s a wonderful person about prioritizing her goals--her top goal is to keep her loved ones (and Gotham) safe through anyway she can help them. As long as she has that, she can be happy...even if she sometimes is too selfless in that she removes herself from (or allows) situations where she thinks she’s too biased even if she thinks the situation is ill-considered.....that’ll make sense a lot more after the next year arc, promise.

Bonus very short story under break because I feel like it explains it better than my ramble.

Here is a piece of dialogue I wrote from a short story in Barbara’s POV. It’s not finished so I won’t post all of it; but, it’s called “Prom” and takes place between Year 2 and Year 3 (so post Batgirl, pre-Kory’s arrival on Earth).

-----

Barbara Gordon is in love with Dick Grayson.

She doesn’t let it affect her that much. 

There’s more important things to worry about.

Namely being Batgirl, Gotham’s newest vigilante of about a year and a really good one if she does say so herself. And with that comes other worries. Like containing Arkham breakouts. And patrolling Crime Alley. And tracking down leads on whatever new addition there is to Gotham’s ever expanding list of batshit insanity. And going through the next torture mislabled as a training exercise because “we can never be too prepared, right, Babs?”. Or, hey, speaking of which, trying to make sure neither she nor Dick die in this nightmare of a city that she adores so much.

And then, there’s the additional joy of keeping all of the above mentioned vigilante activities out of the attention of her father aka the Police Commissioner aka one of the most observant men in Gotham.

The point is Barbara doesn’t have time to be part of anyone’s unrequited teenage love story, even if it’s her own.

All of which normally works out pretty darn well except for one occasional fact.

Dick Grayson is an idiot.

Big blue eyes look up at her imploringly from across the lunch table and Babs momentarily contemplates stabbing him with her fork.

“I just thought it would be a good idea,” he explains before hurrying to add, “if you don’t already have someone you want to go with, I mean.”

“You’re asking me to prom,” she says incredulously. “Wait, you’re telling me you don’t have a date to prom?”

Dick hesitates. “Um, well, no, I don’t. Not exactly.”

Barbara blinks, narrows her eyes, and then mentally translates that through her built in Dick Grayson decodifier. The answer comes alarmingly quickly.

“In other words, people asked you and you turned them down. So now, you have to find a date if you want to go and not look like an asshole,” she concludes.

Dick blushes and she knows she’s right.

Not that there was ever really a question because, unlike her, Dick actually is popular. Insanely so considering, like her, he’s two years younger than most of their classmates and makes the absolute minimal effort to be part of any extracurricular activities besides sporadic decathlon appearances.

Then again, maybe it’s not that surprising when you factor back in the whole billionaire heir status plus the...well, okay, the unfair levels of attractiveness and grace Dick exudes as unconsciously as breathing.

Dick smiles sheepishly and Barbara swears she hears a girl two tables away actually sigh.

“I just thought it would be more fun to go with you,” Dick insists and Barbara’s traitorous little heart might have skipped if he didn’t immediately follow it with, “as friends, you know?”

Barbara continues to stare at him because dang it, she might have tripped into a bad teen movie but she still has her pride.

“If you’re just asking me because you think I don’t have a date--”

Dick’s eyes immediately widen. “No! Babs, that’s not it at all, I swear!” He sighs, checking the cafeteria before leaning in. “It’s just...you know how things can get kind of, ah, busy all of the sudden for us, right?”

Oh….

Barbara nods, feeling like an idiot. She should have known it would all come back to vigilante stuff.

Dick looks relieved. “I just don’t want to agree to go to prom with someone when I’ve got to ditch them last minute if something comes up.”

“Oh,” she says, mostly on autopilot. “And at least if we go together and something happens…”

“We won’t be letting anyone down.” Dick smiles before shrugging. “And, if nothing happens, then I still get to go to prom with one of my best friends. Win-win.”

Barbara forces herself to swallow. “Win-win.”

“So, what do you say?” Dick’s smile goes a little bit mischievous. “Barbara Gordon, will you go to prom with me?”

The sad thing is that when it comes down to it, she doesn’t have to think about it.

“Sure, Dick.”

Dick’s face lights up, endearing in all the ways it’s not infuriating. “Really?”

Barbara shrugs, pulling up a smile. “What can I say? You know I love dancing.”

-----

Since apparently this is her life now, Barbara gives in to overdramatic impulses and throws herself onto the couch before finding a thick enough pillow to scream into.

When she finally lets the pillow slide off her face, her dad’s staring at her from over a heavy stack of case files.

“Bad day at school?”

She smiles sardonically. “I got a date for prom.”

“....Oh.” He frowns and there’s something Babs always finds oddly touching about the utter panicked confusion the hardened police commissioner shows with anything approaching the emotions of teenage girls. He shoulders through. “I thought you weren’t going to prom.”

“I wasn’t,” she agrees. Frankly, she thinks she could go her entire life without seeing classmates she barely talks to swaying awkwardly in a cramped gymnasium.

Her dad’s frown deepens. “Who’s the guy?”

She sighs, closing her eyes, already knowing how this will go. “Dick Grayson.”

“Ah...well that’s--”

“He asked me as friends,” she finishes.

Silence greets her response and Barbara shuts her eyes a bit tighter.

If there’s one thing she absolutely hates about being in love with Dick Grayson, it’s the fact that everyone else in her life already knows. Everyone except Dick.

“I’m sorry, sweetheart.”

“It’s fine, Dad.”

“You want me to shoot him?”

She chokes on a laugh, finally opening her eyes. “You can’t. You’re a cop. The police frown on things like murder.”

He gives her a look, a smile creeping in under his moustache. “It’s Gotham, Barbara.”

She stands up, leaning over to kiss his cheek.

“Don’t.” She smiles. “Gotham still needs one honest cop left.”

“Drats.” He catches her hand, smile evening out as he meets her eyes. “If he doesn’t see what’s in front of him, honey, then he doesn’t deserve you.”

Barbara squeezes his hand in lieu of answering.

That’s the thing no one ever seems to get. 

It isn’t that Dick doesn’t see her. In fact, she’s pretty sure Dick sees her better than anyone.

He’s her partner, the best friend she’s ever had, the one thing she knows she can always count on.

But, he’s not in love with her.

-------

Thanks for the ask!

[captainlordauditor]

i want to get into dc comics, especially the batfam. recommendations on where to start?

I can give you recommendations, but they’re gonna depend a lot on what you like to read. They’re also mostly based on what I’ve read, which means not a lot post-new 52.

Batman #408 -  This is an issue, rather than a run, but it’s basically the start of modern Batman. Come here for a mix of dark noir and wacky shenanigans. I’m not kidding - the early 400s of Batman range from “someone stole all of the church bells in Gotham” to “the Russians are trying to assassinate President Reagan”. I recommend starting with 408 specifically because it’s just post-Crisis and is the issue that introduces Jason Todd. Tim Drake, who’s Robin for most of the modern age, is introduced in #440, but I really do think his introduction reads better with the context.

Nightwing (1996) - if you like mysteries or cop shows, this is a good place to start. A lot of people really don’t like this run, but I loved it. It is one of those comics that feels very... seamed. You can really tell where events messed with the writer’s pacing, and there are times where I felt like the writer clearly wanted to do something that the editors wouldn’t let her, but overall it was very good and enjoyable. I think it works as a place to start because while it takes place after the batfamily is formed, it’s mostly about Nightwing establishing himself in his own territory and what he does after he establishes himself. There’s a decent amount of crossover with other books, but there’s a lot of plot on its own, as well. Let Devin Grayson go feral.

Batgirl (2000) - If you’d like something that’s similarly emotionally heavy but less gorey than Batman or Nightwing, or if you hate reading dialogue, read Batgirl. If you like seeing disabled kids get mostly-supportive parenting, read Batgirl. If you like martial arts, read Batgirl. Everyone should read Batgirl you guys. It’s so good. I highly recommend this one for beginners, because it rarely ties into what’s going on in other series - for the most part, Batgirl does its’ own thing. It also follows a character who, prior to the run, had only very recently been adopted into the family, so there’s not a lot of prior knowledge needed to go into it, though I do think Bruce’s actions have a bit more depth to them if you read it after Death In the Family (Batman 426-429). 

Teen Titans (1980) - This ones like, a half a recommendation. A lot of people really like this run (I think mostly because of nostalgia), and there’s a lot that happens in the Teen Titans that’s fairly important, and is a good way to discover new characters. This run is generally good Silver Age-esque fun, where things are high stakes but you know everything will turn out alright, and all the characters are super great and lovable. It’s also aged extremely poorly. While Nightwing and Batman both feature sexual assault, it’s usually addressed as a traumatic experience, or at least attempted to. Teen Titans does not. At all. Teen Titans features such questionable decisions as, oh, Terry Long’s entire existence. So, GIANT warning symbols on this one, somewhat smaller ones on the others.

another recommendation courtesy of @rainbowfoxes is to read Crisis on Infinite Earths, and then pick some characters you liked there and follow their runs afterward. I haven’t tried this, so I have no idea where it will get you!

Anyway, everyone should go read Batgirl (2000).

[aingeal98]

The important thing about Bruce Wayne is that when I call him a girldad I don't mean in a lets his daughter braid his hair way. I mean he would absolutely do that if Cass wanted but since that's not really something they're interested in he's more likely to pull a "take your daughter to an active crime scene and let her practice her detective skills" type of bonding activity. But more importantly he's a trainwreck. When Cass breathes near a boy he has a meltdown. He's not a girldad in an 'in touch with his feelings and comfortable enough with his gender to not let it get in the way of his bond with his daughter." type thing. I mean it instead as the type of dads who bought their kids soccer magazines and gave them their first beer and took them fishing and most definitely scared off all future boyfriends with a shotgun. She's his favourite son and any reminder that she is in fact a woman who will face different issues to him is always going to short circuit him a little. He's a girldad who will never ask what period products she uses or bring up the subject at all but makes sure he has a stack of all variations ready to go just in case.

He's the definition of a girldad. He tries so hard and gets so much wrong. He loves her and doesn't have a clue how to handle it but is convinced he's doing an OK job anyways. Whether he's right or not well... Read Batgirl 2000.

[bat-lings]

whats your favourite ship for each of the bat kids?

Dick

I’m sorry but that man is the most shipable dude ever I physically can’t chose? My holy trinity is dickkory, dickbabs & dickroy. Kory & Babs were canonly different relationships at different times of his life that were both essential for different reasons aka the kind of content I dig. And his relationship with Roy is just too great for words.

Jason

Huh, that’s a tough one. I don’t have strong opinions about Jay’s love life. Rena was important in a young love way but it’s not a ship outside of that, and post-resurrection!Jason isn’t in a place where it’s easy to imagine him in a healthy relationship.

Maybe Jayroy, but like. With preboot!Roy’s characterization.

Oh my god. Jason/Grace Choi. I just invented a power couple lmao. Look, definitely not endgame material (tbh not sure they could be good for each other more than short-term), but they’d have the most vivid and entertaining dynamic ever. With adequate writing they could even navigate some of their issues together? It’d be wholesome while it lasts and then Grace would go to her wife Anissa & Jason would go on with his life too.

[Outsiders (2003) #16]

[Red Hood: Lost Days #3]

I hope you’re happy with yourself Anon, I have a new ship with 0.000 content because of you now

Bottom line is, I can’t imagine Jason in any kind of long-term relationship before he has done some serious healing & growing. But there’s definitely some ships to be shipped. Should be with people who can stand up to him, call him out on his bullshit when necessary, and with whom he has enough in common to strike an understanding from the start.

Tim

Timkon definitely. While I love Tim/Tam & Tim/Steph too, if we’re talking endgame material Timkon would definitely be the healthiest option imo. Tim/Ari & Tim/Zo while part of his story had to end at some point for similar reasons. So it’s kinda like Dick where I think all his relationships should be considered because they’re part of his growth, but unlike Dick there’s only one I could really imagine lasting… in the way they existed in canon that is. Timsteph or Tim/Tam could maybe work out better in a future AU after everyone has matured some more.

Anyway! Timkon. I got a soft spot for the “best friends in love” trope; make ‘em grow up together like those two canonly did from and I’m sold. They respect & care so much for each other and man they’re just way too funny.

[Robin (1993) #141]

Cassandra

Cass/Kon is the ultimate rare pair that I’ll defend with my life okay;; they were literally the cutest thing ever and it’s too bad canon didn’t hold more content for their relationship whether they’d have ended up as an actual couple or as friends.

Just. Look at these cuties

[Batgirl (2000) #43]

Also Onyx/Cass had some rad potential too, shame it wasn’t expanded on

[Batgirl (2000) #60]

Stephanie

Steph/Kara. The ultimate combination of adorable, funny, and touching.

[Batgirl (2009) #14]

And the more I get to know Duke the more I think he and Steph could be a cute match?

But I wouldn’t put her in a long-term romance until after Batgirl (2009) / after Steph learned to love herself & do things for herself.

Damian

Probably either with Jon or Colin when they grow up some more? Kinda hard to have real shipping opinions given his young age. The pre-slash has dream-like potential tho, as a “best friends falling in love as they grow up together” slow-burn-ish thing. Me loves that.

Barbara

For all that I love dickbabs, Babs/Dinah wins this one. They admire each other, they inspire each other, they support each other, their banter is the stuff of gold, what is there not to love?

[Birds of Prey (1999) #68 & #84]

Duke

I stand by my Steph/Duke. Those dorks would be hilarious together, just imagine the banter potential.

[Batgirl (2009) #6 || We Are Robin #1]

And they’re both stubborn kids with a big heart who are way too determined for their own good. I’m seeing it guys.

Thanks for the ask!

[fancyfade]

Hi! I really love your Oracle posts. I haven't read a lot of Batfam stuff, but I think Barbara really is at her best when she's Oracle, and it's a shame that DC keeps trying to ignore that part of her character history. I was wondering if you could give me some recommendations as to where to start reading Oracle, and what comic runs to avoid?

Okay, so first I am glad you love my oracle posts ^_^ thank you! and she is definitely at her best as oracle.

Sadly I don’t have any oracle reading lists set up atm but i’ll tell you what I read

I read Birds of Prey (1998) which was 127 comics long. the most oracle content is in the first half, the team gets bigger and then the oracle content starts getting less and less there.

so I would start at Birds of Prey #1-46. This is Chuck Dixon’s run and somehow the weird conservative guy was the only one who didn’t do a magicure plot.

the issues he did that I would definitely skip here are 28, 29, and 30 when you’re reading because they struck me as really racist.

If you don’t like Chuck Dixon as a writer (and I wouldn’t blame you) i’d only read the best issues, which are outlined below:

The best issues in the chuck dixon run for oracle content IMO are Birds of Prey #8 (which has some very important things wrt quality of life and disability articulated) and Hunt for Oracle, which shows us just how formidable Oracle can be in her home turf. That was a crossover issue between Oracle and Nightwing  (nightwing 45, Birds of prey 20, nightwing 46, birds of prey 21). there are other issues i like her in, but those ones stick out in my head as don’t mis.

Then there are 10 issues of guest writers which sucked. one had a magicure plot, the other just brought nothing but some weird romance drama.

then there’s the gail simone run.

the pros of the gail simone run is she is much better at writing women than chuck dixon and seems to be a better writer in general. the downside is now the cast is larger and she also decides to do a magicure plotline eventually (temporary but i still hate it). to the best of my knowledge there wasn’t a huge deal made of it and oracle wasn’t like “oh now i’m whole” like she was in Terry Moore’s writing but still. it was unnecessary.

So far, I’ve re read 56-65. it establishes a nemesis for oracle and i like some of her dynamics there, and she gets to be scary. there is also a lot of black canary and shiva content you might enjoy if you like those characters.

i will be cataloguing my favorite issues and least favorite from gail simone’s run later, but since i only read through it once it’s less fresh in my memory.

outside of birds of prey, i like barbara in no man’s land. in no man’s land volume one, we see the fact that with the infrastructure in gotham crumbling, she is at a disadvantage that able bodied people are not, but also due to her preparations and the fortifications of her base she has a lot of advantages everyone else does – she both doesn’t need to leave her apartment, because it is well defended and she has a good stock of food, but she also can’t leave it, because of the inaccessibility outside. it’s some nuance i’m not sure i see able bodied writers include often (I can’t remember who wrote this issue, so i have no clue whether they were able bodied or not).

no man’s land volume 1 also has an ending plot with azrael which had some important notes on quality of life and disability.

no man’s land volume 2 has some crossover issues with nightwing, in which babs gets to defend her base (again) and be awesome. basically any time bab’s defends her base she’s at top tier. however this part had some disappointing things, in that it was implied that barbara being in a wheelchair was what stopped her and nightwing’s relationship. weirdly enough, this showed up in nightwing but not BoP even though they had the same writer at this time. maybe there was a cowriter or something on BoP making it better or a cowriter on nightwing making it worse? IDK.

No Man’s land vol 2 also has cassandra cain’s introduction which :P not oracle, but awesome anyway.

outside of no man’s land and birds of prey i’m not really sure where to go. birds of prey is barbara’s longest running series, it starts as a duo title between her and black canary and gradually the cast gets bigger (most cast expansion happens in simone’s run).

there is also a 3 issue solo mini series called Oracle: the Cure. despite appearances, it is not about magicuring. it had some good content, IMO, but also be warned: If you are pedantic about comics matching reality or at least being possible, the “computers are magic” vibe here might frustrate you :P

for more oracle as a side/supportive character, she appears a lot in Batgirl (2000-) as a mentor for Cassandra (though I dont’ remember a ton of moments that make me think this is an essential oracle series. We do see that she tries to keep some of Bruce’s unhealthy habits away from Cass and protect her, but also that Cass feels a bit stifled and like barbara is being overprotective or trying to force her into doing “normal” things) and Batgirl (2009-) as a mentor to stephanie brown. In batgirl (2009-) she interacts with another woman who became disabled and now uses a wheelchair, and sort of takes her on as a protege, which I liked, but she’s not the main character. the main character is stephanie.

[anti-tony-god]

(Sorry kinda long) Cass Cain!! I love her! She has her own series: Batgirl (2000)! The problem is Cass’s education was neglected, so she doesn’t know anything at first. Then she gets magicked and knows words, but can’t speak. Then she can speak, but in broken English. She can’t read either, even pretty far in. I am iffy on Bruce’s part because he sucks and reteaches her to fight, he’s her adopted father but uhh this is before that and while he does worry for her like all his protégés it feels a bit like white knight to me (mostly cause I hate Bruce and Cass should be able to kick his ass at any point in time). Barbara Gordon takes her in, too. Idk if that’s a turn off for you. Shes like 16 so she needs someone looking after her anyway.

I’m going to warn you the art is…… well someone definitely drew that. But it gets better further in. Onyx Adams is there and doing amazing!! Cute Cass/Steph moments!! The end is disappointing and the amount to black villains has me a bit concerned but it’s not 100% and there are black good guys so I’m not going to throw down the racist card.

#30-32 has Connor Hawke in it

Kinda bloody. Suicide, murder, the works. Cass can really kick butt and she’s super sweet but she lets Bruce get in her head when she should be letting Barbara in instead. I actually don’t mind that part, it’s kind of interesting to see even if it does make me mad.

The thing I do absolutely love about her is that she speaks in movement, which is poetic and beautiful. I just wish there was more of it. She had a rough growing up and finally got the family she deserves (except Bruce he sucks). I hate that they make reading body language a power or secret weapon of some sort that can be taken away. I’d have loved it if they kept that.

Batgirl (2008) starts off rough, the other batfam members start off acting like dicks, I know that the first intro of a character makes me judge them afterwards (why I hate black widow) so idk if you think that’ll ruin them for you. She still speaks brokenly but it’s revealed she took an esl class, so it’s better. This is definitely something you read if you want to see more Cass, you run into a bunch of characters but don’t get into her as a person enough except for that part she gets a bf. It’s Cass on a deeper level (talking about her trauma, seeing her sister). She is on a mission and it shows. 2000 is a lot lighter, not as serious.

2009? Cass upgrades to her ultimate form and says fuck Bruce Wayne and then leaves. Unfortunately, that’s the most you’ll get from her. Stephanie Brown (blonde white girl) then becomes batgirl. Which, now that I think about it, is kinda fucked up.

Don’t read any batgirls past that, it’s Barbie Gordon and she sucks (I will find you)

Here’s a rec list for her if you still want to see stuff on her, she probably speaks brokenly (really brokenly or somewhat brokenly depends on the time) or not at all in them. She didn’t have any speech problems in batgirl: convergence but Steph is batgirl in that, she’s black bat. In rebirth she’s known as ‘orphan’ which is worse than ‘signal’ so uhh I don’t know shit about that and never will. Also she respects Batman which is sad :( https://fyeahcassandracain.tumblr.com/recs

Don’t read One Year Later

Connor Hawke!! Oooo I hate Oliver Queen and you will see why but Connor? Connor is my baby!! But all black DC characters are because I’m black and I said so.

He originally had a temper (“angry black man” but also Uhhh Oliver Queen’s son) he was picked on as a kid since he’s mixed (¼ Korean, ¼ black, ½ white) he has the occasional white washing too. His mom would kick your ass if you started making fun of him.

Nothing else I can think of I don’t read him much, sorry

https://www.google.com/amp/s/lornahs.tumblr.com/post/95199039664/where-to-start-reading-connor-hawke-lets-first/amp

Ok I did Connor Hawke: Dragon’s Blood and don’t fucking read it he’s whitewashed in the first part then kissed his fucking half-brother’s mom noooooo

People like Connor and Kyle Rayner together plus it’s outside of the Arrow Fam so none of that shit will pop up probably (hopefully) they don’t have a run together but I did run into them a couple of times, they’re so cute!!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/lornahs.tumblr.com/post/156635510974/kyle-raynerconnor-hawke-recommended-issues/amp

I’m kinda traumatized so no I will not sample any of those for you. Also he respects Oliver which is sad :(

Duke Thomas!! I did like the little glimpses of Duke I got before he moved from background to foreground, but I never read him much. 1. Because I hate Bruce (BATMAN & the signal) 2. Because his new name sucks if they just called him Lark like everyone was voting for I would maybe do it 3. Because it was new 52 and I couldn’t care less about Robin War

I am curious about Duke too tho, I will never read Robin War (nothing immoral about it I don’t think, I just don’t give a shit and it sounds boring also respect for Batman which is sad) but I did get into Batman & The Signal

Writer attempts to console the audience about having too many batfam members while showing us said batfam members, one (or two if you count nightwing) of which is whitewashed, another that is ablewashed, and the PoC and Jewish ones are put in the corner (but to be fair, they’re trying to center the more popular ones and THATS why I hate this fuckin fandom).

I’m going to choke this writer, speech bubbles and boxes are two different things I don’t care if he’s talking to both the audience & the people around him it’s confusing and I hate it how am I supposed to know when it’s in his head or not

“No good names left” I’m so mad there are so many birds that exist do you even know how disappointing it is to hear Duke is getting to be part of the batfam everyone’s so exciting making stuff up for him “oh Lark this Lark that” and then his name is fucking SIGNAL what’s he do make bird calls whenever the bad guy is outside??? “Oh uhhh there’s crime Duke hit the button for the batsignal” fucking SIGNAL

Him trying to figure out his powers is boring as hell I DON’T CARE literally “Jason Todd Death Joke” “Someone Gets His Name Wrong” “I’m A Mystery” “I’m The New Guy” this writing is so lazy ahhhh

Black “blue” dude with a big ass nose that’s the bad guy

I got bored again and skipped panels then found a disabled Asian woman, I am interested again… Wow I want a comic on her she’s more interesting than Duke lmao

I SCROLL DOWN TO SEE IF ITS REDEEMABLE AND SEE A WHITE WOMAN WITH DREADS BYE “but it’s ok ‘cause she’s part robot or whatever” I’m not reading anymore especially since Barbie is there probably preying on another young black guy to not be racist with

https://www.google.com/amp/s/lornahs.tumblr.com/post/155680034759/where-to-start-reading-duke-thomas-his-first/amp

Rec list, he’s mostly in batman sorry fam *F* also he respects Batman which is sad :(

If you decide to stay away from batfam please take me with you

If you decide to stay away from DC PLEASEEEEE take me

I should probably explain this since I keep throwing it onto you without explaining what it is Barbie Gordon: Barbara Gordon (second batgirl, most popular) was attacked by the joker and was paralyzed from the waist down. This was an extremely sexist comic that was complained about by all sorts of straight white able-bodied feminists even after DC turned that trash-fire into a glorious fireworks display

She was amazing as Oracle! She was a genius, badass, wheelchair-bound asskicker!! Even the justice league wanted her!! She was so reliable and strong mentally, physically, and emotionally! She was one of the only people to step up during No Man’s Land! She took in Cass and didn’t give up on her when she took Bruce’s stupid advice over her wisdom! And she lost her respect for Bruce which is great! She had more respect as Oracle than she could ever dream of as batgirl. She realized Bruce was bitch and became twice the man he could ever be. She didn’t let that moment define her, and she decided she wouldn’t let anyone hold her back anymore. She didn’t have Bruce’s “huh they look like they can beat someone down hard 🤔🤔🤔” view of worth, she saw people as they were and did what she could to help them improve. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

But with enough whiny bitches DC will do anything, and Barbara was given back her legs, her respect for Bruce, and her wisdom while also gaining a black boyfriend that had no business being there (MY Luke??? I appreciate the bowtie pics but FUCK YOU) that she would soon dump for her light-skinned ex, and a victim complex.

She lost both her dignity and everything great about her.

No one hates Barbie more than me. No one. If I find out that you even glimpsed at her I will hunt you down.

Also recently they made a new Oracle, since she mostly deals with computers it’s sort of a robot thing and it’s STILL FUCKING ABLE BODIED THE POINT FEW PAST THEM AT A THOUSAND MILES AN HOUR

THE MADDEST I’VE EVER BEEN

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Thank you so much for all this! Idk what a lot of it means since ive literally never read a dc comic but ill keep it in mind when I start reading!!