#marauders debate

[wendynoire]

Someone told me I was wrong for having wolfstar in a (drarry) fic without "warning" and then told me I was wrong, so I need to ask everyone so I don't let myself feel crazy.

Thank you

[outromoony]

James and Remus doing the 'best friend vs boyfriend' challenge with Sirius to see who knows him the best... who's winning?

[likeprongstostars]

MERMAY (where i lie i will draw mermaids the whole month and give up after the 1st)

[courfee]

» I love you. That's all.

– Art Heist, Baby! @otrtbs

paintings I referenced here:

Gustav Klimt, Death and Life, 1908-1915 – Regulus' shirt has the same pattern as Death's cloak, James' shirt is patterned like the background of 'Life'

It was life and death, and death was there, on the left side of the canvas, waiting eagerly to pluck any one person from the conglomeration of life and claim them as its own. – chapter 28

Mark Rothko, Untitled (Seagram Murals), 1958 – Regulus bleeding out into the background

And he remembers looking out at the thick red blood on the marble floors and nonsensically, being reminded yet again, of Rothko. – chapter 34

Ivan Konstantinovich Aivazovsky, Gathering Storm, 1899 – Regulus' socks have this pattern

'Hang painting here?' – chapter 37

and here some little details and an alternative bloody version :) look at that snake ring being handed over <33

[clingingtoskeletons]

It boggles my mind when people still try to say pensieve memories are subjective.

If that were the case, then how the hell would Harry be able to hear the Marauders' conversations during SWM? Snape obviously wasn't paying attention to them and had no idea they were there, so how would the memory be able to pick up what they were saying in such clear detail if pensieves weren't completely unbiased?

[allysketches]

*'the love club' by lorde plays in the background*

Not me coming back to tumblr in almost-2023 to post marauders content of all things 🤡

In the last few months I've fallen back into a deep hole of watching yt and ig edits and reading a bunch of fics (not even joking when I say this got me through the year) so here's the result...

Obviously based on "The Breakfast Club" poster, and the fancast from the edits that burned these faces as these characters in my brain forever 🫠

[superfallingstars]

Personally I think jily is supposed to be idealized (like how James and lily were idealized) to Harry. James gets knocked of his pedestal in swm and so does jily by Harry questioning if his father forced his mother into marriage. Later when talking to lupin and Sirius James and Jily get a slight defense and Harry is back to feeling alright but with the knowledge that things weren’t perfect.

I personally don’t read Jily as abusive (even though I read James as being abusive to snape at school, but I don’t think that violent, physical behavior was extended to Lily) but I definitely don’t read them as a “good” couple (whatever that means). I think you can read it in many different ways given there is so little of them and I think an interpretation that their relationship wasn’t the healthiest is perfectly plausible with the scant information we’re given.

Yeahhhh that’s probably what JKR intended. James and Lily are the fridged parents who are dearly mourned and missed, and as a result, their flaws are completely smoothed over in everyone’s memories. But in Snape’s Worst Memory, Harry learns the hard lesson that things aren’t always what they seem, and that nobody is perfect, not even his dead father. Hurrah.

My problem with this is that I think it’s very boring, LOL. Like it really is probably exactly what JKR intended (given her middle-of-the-road takes on every moral and political question that happens in these books), but man, it feels like such a cop out. James basically ruins Snape’s life for no reason, and the conclusion we’re meant to draw from this is just, well, people are complicated! NO!!!! Bad answer!!! Like, Snape also did some terrible things, but at least he spends a ton of pages actively suffering/atoning for his sins. But James, on the other hand, is only somewhat implied to have changed maybe slightly a little bit somewhere off-page, and we just have to take #1 James Potter fanboy Sirius Black and serial understater Remus Lupin at their word. So if James was supposed to be “redeemed” – or even just excused – wow, it really doesn't work for me. You can't go as dark as "protagonist questions if his father forced his mother into marriage" and then just brush it off like no big deal, Joanne! And it’s so frustrating, because all it would've taken to fix this would've been to show James being a good person instead of just telling the reader that he was one (proof: trust me?). Ugh.

So because of all that, I agree that from what we’re given, it’s quite difficult to read Jily as “good.” We rarely see them interact, and when we do, James’s behavior is wayyyy too similar to the trope of “terrible guy eventually gets the girl even though she seems to hate him with every fiber of her being because his persistence and not taking no for an answer is just toooo romantic to resist.” Which sucks, lol. It feels like JKR is basically being like, “eh, James was young and dumb, whatever” and giving him a huge out for all the grief he caused Snape (and Lily, for that matter) – and she expects that the reader will agree that that is a legitimate excuse for his behavior, and by extension think that it's reasonable for Lily to forgive and eventually marry him. And man, I am just not sure if that is enough to convince me. (And evidently, I'm not alone, considering the “Jily is abusive” meta post that likely sparked this ask!)

With that said, I agree that it’s a stretch to say that James was abusive (or even implied to be abusive) toward Lily. It’s not a completely unfounded take – it could probably be written well in a fic, and even be canon compliant – but you would really have to extrapolate that dynamic from the little information we’re given (as you pointed out). And more importantly (at least, re: that meta), I don't think JKR intended that interpretation at all.

Personally, I just don’t think it makes sense for the narrative for James and Lily to have been in an abusive relationship. And by the narrative, I mean Harry. If Jily is an abusive (or even just bad) relationship, that would have massive ramifications for the way Harry sees his parents. Ideally he would have to come to terms with that at some point – I don’t think it makes sense for James’s and Lily’s relationship to have been this way and not have significantly affected Harry – but imo JKR clearly does not want to deal with that. Like you said, the point of SWM – aside from foreshadowing Lily and Snape’s relationship – was to knock James off his pedestal and basically go, See, nobody’s perfect. <3 And the story is not interested in engaging with James’s behavior on a level any deeper than that lol. Which ok, I don’t love it, but if we’re not going to spend time dealing with morally gray James, then it doesn’t make sense for him to be even more morally gray (or rather, have him fall face first over the line into becoming a downright despicable person) by making him abusive toward Lily.

So that's my Doylist analysis: no way in hell did JKR intend Jily to be an abusive relationship, but she also didn't do a good enough job defending and/or redeeming James after SWM, so we're just left to speculate about how much he really changed. Still, I don't think "JKR is a bad writer" is a very satisfying answer. After all, the only reason that I'm engaging with this text in the first place is because I'm a fan of it, so I think it's also worth looking at it from a Watsonian perspective – or at least, to accept the events of the book as they're written and try to fill in the blanks. (Imo so much of the fun of fandom is trying to fill in those blanks in a satisfying way, to expand upon a character and try to reach a more interesting conclusion than the author did... And I would be remiss not to mention that, because it undoubtedly influences the way that I (and probably also you, if you're on this side of tumblr) engage with the text.)

So for me, as a Marauders era fan, I’m faced with: ok, I don’t really like the idea of these two characters together, but they canonically got together, and I think the story is better because they got together, and it’s better if they genuinely like each other, and it all had to happen somehow – so how can I explain it in a way that both makes sense with the story and is satisfying to me? And my answer to that is twofold.

First, I imagine that James was not always quite such an awful guy (as in, not always as showy, combative, and cruel as he was in SWM). After all, there is a glimmer of goodness in him when he chooses to save Snape’s life during the Prank, revealing that somewhere deep down, he does in fact have a moral compass. And second, I think that he has to have changed. And I mean a genuine change – one that might not have resulted in completely different behavior (after all, he was still hexing Snape through his seventh year) – but regardless, something that makes him seriously reflect on his actions and reconsider his motivations. His behavior in SWM is just too inexcusable for him to get with Lily – partly because Lily is generally framed as a Very Good Person, and partly because regardless of how she is framed, James was still awful to her – without any self-reflection or growth. Of course, the problem then becomes explaining this in a satisfying way!

And I have some ideas in mind – but they’re definitely more speculation than fact, and omg this post is long enough already. Luckily, I received another ask on this topic, so I will save my self-indulgent headcanons for that.

There is one last thing I want to mention, which is (part of) my reasoning for why James may not have been such a bully all the time and why I think he has the capacity for change, and it's been nagging at me ever since I read that meta post (which again, presumably started this whole thing). I think one thing that bothers a lot of people (including me!) about James is that it seems like he chooses to pick on Snape in SWM because of Lily’s presence. He wants to show off to her, so he keeps looking over to the girls by the water, he ruffles his hair, he deepens his voice, and he tries to get her attention by targeting Snape. Following this logic, we can presume that James wouldn’t have done any of this if Lily hadn’t been there – and that’s the part that got me thinking. I have to wonder if Lily was perhaps not the only person who James wanted to impress in that scene… in fact, I think it’s incredibly likely that James would have acted differently if the Marauders hadn’t been there! (Harry has "the distinct impression that Sirius was the only one for whom James would have stopped showing off," and Sirius saying that he's bored is the inciting incident for James spotting Snape...!) Yes it’s going to be a James masculinity analysis because this is what happens every time I talk about these fucking characters apparently. So idk, stick around if you’re into that.

And of course, thank you for the ask!

[winnienora14]

Okay so there’s been a whole debate going on about how Remus is characterized so here is my take on the matter

I personally hate the whole Casanova of Gryffindor tower thing. Remus is constantly terrified of being found out. He doesn’t want any one paying attention to him so he’s quiet and reserved. He spent his entire childhood locked away (I believe he was homeschooled)because his dad was ashamed of him and his mom was scared for him. Not being accustomed to social interactions at a young age definitely made him extremely socially awkward. So in my opinion, there is just no way he is the smooth flirt some have described him to be.

I also don’t like the super soft Remus. He is angry, ashamed and frustrated. He feels like the whole world is against him. But we still have to balance both out. He does not make scenes to express his anger, he just lets it boil inside.

Honestly if I had to describe him, I’d say he’s kind to those who deserve it (he’s not the kind of person who believes everyone deserves kindness ). His humor is self deprecation, sarcasm and being mean (he’s actually really funny). Humor is kind of an armor for him. It helps him threw hard times.

He is extremely anxious/paranoid. He doesn’t talk much but he’s not extremely quiet. He’s an incredible listener. Since he’s so paranoid, he’s always surveying how people look at him, their behavior... So he’s extremely observant. He knows most things before others do. He’s hard working because his father finds that important and he’s desperate to make him proud. He’s extremely empathetic because that’s a value his mother holds dear.

He doesn’t like school. He’s a queer man in the closet in the 70´s, a halfblood and a werewolf. School is basically hell for him. He gets more than okay grades but he’s not a prodigy and he doesn’t try to be. He only does the work because he doesn’t want to be called out by the teacher for getting a bad grade. Otherwise, he wouldn’t do the work at all. He loves reading because he can relate to certain characters and escape reality.

He has this ‘I don’t give a fuck’ attitude when he’s talking to strangers his age. If they are older though, he is remarkably polite. He is respectful towards his teachers and or any figure of authority. He doesn’t break rules because he’s scared of being called out by teachers,so he helped the marauders plan the pranks but he wasn’t the one to make them come to life.

He tends to take the easiest course of action even when it’s not necessarily the good one. He’s curious and he loves to learn. He absolutely despises change. He is a control freak but most of all he’s a perfectionist. He always feels like he has to compensate for his lycanthropy by being perfect at everything. He’s an amazing friend: caring and always ready to listen and help.

The best way to make him really really mad is to show him pity. He’s a raging pessimist. He gets angry rather easily and he as trouble controlling that anger. He makes fun of things like influencers and fashion. He refuses to go to the gym, plan his outfits or have a skincare. He never gets into fights because he thinks they’re stupid. He’s uncomfortable in group settings.He is easily annoyed.

This is way too long for no reason but I put too much effort into this to just delete it. So yeah… enjoy I guess.

[chasingthestarss]

Rip basically all marauders era characters

You would have loved arguing over which Taylor swift era is best

[wordsofwilderness]

On the great lube debate:

Regulus would be meticulously creating a giant spreadsheet to try to optimise lube flavour so James will eat him out more (literally all he has to do is ask)

Meanwhile James is out there trying to one up himself in finding the most unhinged lube flavours

[reggie-kinnie]

okay but do you ever think about how jegulus would definitely argue about whether waffles or pancakes are better. guess who would support which side

[enbysiriusblack]

debate club in hogwarts:

dorcas sets it up and is in charge of it (hc from @marylily-my-beloved )

lily is vice president and also gets the most into the debates

sirius & james joined, won every debate for a month straight. then got kicked out by dorcas & lily for rebutting their opponent arguements by saying "rebut. you're ugly" for every round and still somehow winning the debate

severus was joined whilst him and lily were still friends but lily kicked him after they fell out

can't decide whether the club advisor would be mcgonagall or flitwick. but def one of them two

when dorlene get together, marlene starts coming up with debate topics for the club for dorcas but the other debate members ask her to stop after five weeks of debating whether puddlemore or the catapults are going to win the next match

they usually do actual debates in the great hall so other students can watch, but actual club meetings would be in one of the classrooms

i feel like at first dorcas wouldn't organise a set of rules on what they can/can't debate so the first like year of it is kinda chaos (as i can especially hc those future death eater students joining the club sooo. they'd def be some debates that get a bit out of hand)

they'd also have some debates purely around the muggle world, especially since the people running it are dorcas (who i hc as halfblood who grew up in muggle environment) and lily (muggleborn). so it'd be special debates just around muggle pop culture or political events happening around the muggle world, which then inspires some purebloods in the club (def not all of them) to then do research about what the muggle world is like

[theronanlynchshow]

my overdue intro post

hiii!!!

I guess it's finally time to do an intro post lol. I’m in high school, bisexual (but not single) she/her pronouns but idc. I’m a slytherin, aries, and intj. You can call me ronan or rose on here.

DNI if you are

homophobic, transphobic, racist, ableist

empty blog (i will block you if you look like a bot

an artist trying to sell me something (I DO NOT WANT TO BUY YOUR ART AND WILL BLOCK YOU)

MY DMS AND ASKS ARE OPEN, MY FANDOMS ARE

Harry Potter (Marauders)

Voltron

Shera

Hellaverse

Hamilton

The Dragon Prince

Avatar The Last Airbender & TLOK

Stranger Things

Star Wars

Arcane

Death Note

It

Spiderverse

Marvel

Nimona

Grishaverse

Zelda BOTW

The Raven Cycle (where my username’s from)

All For The Game

most horror movies

most musicals

most YA books also (too many to tag)

Music i like

Lorde

Zella Day

Halsey

Ado

VERITE

Chappell Roan

Sabrina Carpenter

Ariana Grande

Lady Gaga

PVRIS

KiNG MALA

Emlyn

Melina KB

Cloudy June

Allie X

Girl in red

UPSAHL

Marina

Dove Cameron

Lana del Rey

Tate McRae

Billie Eilish

Florence & the machine

Olivia Rodrigo

I do color guard, winter guard, and competitive speech & debate so expect rants about both lmao.

I beta read on Ao3 for fun, if you need a beta reader dm me.

Also check out my Hamilton HS AU on Ao3 (same username)

I mostly post funny shit from my life but sometimes fandom things also

this blog is rated PFG for pretty fucking gay 😝

[moonyswarmsweaters]

Brainrotting on Marauders as the Guardians of the Galaxy AU