#marvel fandom discourse

[its-your-mind]

one thing that I have noticed in fandom spaces (this is about the comics fandom(s) in particular, but I’ve also seen it happen in other fandoms that have a Lot Of Lore) is the tendency to make sweeping generalizations about what is “canon” vs what is “fanon.”

and when I say “sweeping generalizations,” I’m not talking about like… the times when an AU or headcanon or straight-up misinterpretation of a Specific Event or Quote or whatever gets Telephone-Gamed into the fandom’s collective consciousness as True And Canonical or smth like that.

I’m talking more about “this character is X in canon but Y in fanon” or “it’s totally fanon that character A and character B hated each other” or “fanon!character C is always doing X but canon!character C would NEVER” or (and this is one of my personal favorites) “character D has never once called character E [insert name/nickname/title/insult here] in canon, but in fanon they do it all the time!”

bc the thing is. like.

are you sure?

there isn’t a single piece of canon that could support that interpretation of that character? in every story where those two have interacted, their personalities or values never seemed like they might interact in that specific way?

in however many dozens or hundreds of comics, that character has never said “I love you”?

are you sure???

and bc this is the piss on the poor site, I wanna be so clear: this is not a convo about characters being written OOC, or different writers negating what has already been established in canon, or other shit like that. that’s a different topic, and one I’m MORE than happy to get mad about. it’s also not about how much members of a fandom need to engage with the source material in order to participate in fan spaces; I’m not interested in touching that conversation with a thirty-nine-and-a-half foot pole.

what this IS about is the fact that I’ve seen so. many. damn. posts. with like hundreds or thousands of notes. accusing “fanon” of being Fundamentally Incorrect about something. while I’m just sitting there thinking “🤨 okay well I can think of at least two different parts of canon that actually directly support the ‘fanon’ that you’re claiming is complete bs, so mayhaps it is time to stop accusing other members of the fandom of being out of touch with canon??” (and to be clear it is absolutely buckwild to expect anyone to have an encyclopedic knowledge of a canon that is almost a century old and has gone through several (dozen) rewrites at this point)

bc here’s the thing!! u are allowed to feel upset that people are Being Wrong About Your Blorbo Online!! that is your fundamental right as a user of this hellsite!!

but here’s the other thing!! sometimes the people who are Wrong About Your Blorbo are occasionally the people who Create Your Blorbo!! that is one of the fundamental tenants of fandom!!

so be mad about it!! scream your outrage to the sky about all of the reasons why your blorbo would fucking NEVER.

but don’t blame the fandom for something when the source material is Right There and Fucked Up As All Getout!! and remember that part of the fucked up nature of it all is that sometimes the same character is several different people, and it is possible to consume a Great Deal Of Content and come away with a Very Different Interpretation than someone else. (this is what can make the comics fandom so much fun! two completely opposing points can both be Pretty Much Correct with a Great Deal Of Textual Support behind them, and so you just get to keep pulling out uno reverse cards until you run out of steam and both of you walk away knowing more about The Character than you did before!)

(in fact, I bet if someone asked in a way that wasn’t an Accusation of Being Bad At Enjoying Media, there’d prolly be a Big Lore Nerd who would be happy to do a deep dive into the possible reasons/supports for a particular popular interpretation, even if that interpretation is one they Despise With Their Whole Being)

tl;dr: stop say the fandom made up an affectionate nickname unless you’re prepared to say with your whole chest that you have consumed literally every piece of media with the character in question talking to/referencing the nicknamed character and you are ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN the nickname appeared Not One Single Time

[cowboylikeyouu]

my favorite gender is men finding out about the concept of shipping non-canon ships

[letsplaythermalnuclearwar]

Which best describes the ship you're currently most obsessed with?

it doesn't have to accurately describe the ship, just the descriptor you think is the most fitting. all gendered language is there to preserve the meme and should be read as gender neutral. please reblog for a greater sample size. if you are equally obsessed with multiple ships or currently not obsessed with any, just pick a ship you enjoy (if you don't like any ships, the dynamic you think sounds the most entertaining)

edit: if multiple fit perfectly, chose the aspect you like best about the ship

[sjbattleangel]

Face it, Darth Vader, Zuko, Piccolo, Vegeta, Magneto, Loki and Venom did far worse, unforgivable things yet when they were redeemed to varying degrees, fandom gave them free passes. Yet when Catra ,a child soldier who was physically and mentally abused by her mentor, realizes how much she has hurt the people around her; strives to be a better person; saves her childhood best friend and the entire world with the literal power of love (in spite of the series being cut short), fandom screams for her blood, yelling that she was "the real villain" and "should've died".

I have nothing against either Vader, Zuko, Piccolo, Vegeta, Magneto, Loki or Venom. However, when fandom declares a queer catgirl to be "the face of unforgivable evil", that's when we need to call out the blatant sexist, and kind of queerphobic, double standards.

And no, don't even give me that "BuT BaD WrItInG" thought-terminating rubbish. Funny how everything seems to be "BaD WrItInG" only when it involves some form of media made by and/or starring women, queer people and other minorities. Don't you think?

[shmeas]

Some people are so annoying about shipping these days like

“Can’t two guys just be friends??!!”

Like?? No?? Not if I have any say in it.

[jowithavianwings]

So Steve isn’t dead, right?

so then why tf is Sam like, “I’ll never be good enough for Steve”

Steve: I’m right here

Bucky: We will make him proud

Steve: Ahem

Sam: Steve must have made a mistake giving me the shield

Steve: Why don’t you talk to me about it then?

Sam: I will always try to honor Steve’s memory

Steve: QUIT TELLING EVERYBODY I’M DEAD!

Bucky: Sometimes I can still hear his voice

[literallywhatdoyouwantfromme]

Why is fandom etiquette lowkey dead. If you don't ship it that's fine but leave people alone if they do. "They're so sibling coded" and straight up harrassment on any post that's clearly a SHIP post.

If you look at your siblings like that... boy, I'm greatly concerned and I'm calling the police

[thehauntingsofficial]

A Warning To Marvel Roleplayers;

Mass manipulation comes in many forms, like a wolf stalking pray through a crowd of nice, nice sheep. One specifically has made it their mission to ruin people's lives in the name of jealousy, otherwise known as Asgards-Trickster-God (as well as manifest-your-destiny, and countless other alt accounts, as you've probably seen). Slithering from writing group to writing group once people figure out that all the harassment they've been receiving has been from their own writing partner. These innocent people don't deserve the constant harassment, don't deserve to be obsessed over by a person who barely crosses their mind.

The following is chock-full of evidence (not edited, in case LLD wants to play). I've also added a different callout post made by a different group a little while back, they've truly been at this for a way too long now.

Please stay safe, folks!

[sadchip]

HEY! Aromantic Asexual Marvel fan here. I've wanted to talk about the entire dicourse with The Thunderbolts recently. I've seen people talking about Yelena being aroace and a lot of people feeling frustrated. And I understand, there is such little aroace rep in anything and I, myself, was fucking ecstatic when I heard she may end up aroace. I do certainly think there is a problem with people erasing aroace character's identities. I mean just look at Alastor from Hazbin Hotel, that entire discourse is a shitstorm. But Yelena isn't canon aroace in the movies yet, and more than that, there's discourse on if she is canon aroace or if that is just the idea of certain writers and fans. From what I've heard she isn't considered cannon queer like characters like Billy Kaplan for example. Certain writers saying that she isn't interested in romance or sex isn't the same as definitively saying that she is aromantic and asexual. Same goes for Devin Grayson saying she's "more likely" to identify that way. It isn't definitive, and that is only the opinion of one writer. I love seeing aroace Yelena stuff don't get me wrong, but the comic universe is a very different universe and Marvel may end up wanting to take the character a different direction.

It makes you angry, I get it. It hurts to feel like you finally had somebody you could relate to, and then you feel like that's ripped away. But we aren't entitled to Yelena. We as a fandom aren't entitled to any of these characters identities. I don't care if you ship Yelena with somebody or not, but you need to be respectful to those with opinions that are different than your own.

[myfandomrealitea]

Omegle is dead. RIP to a generational gem.

For those of you who used it for fandom roleplay, EmeraldChat is a good, similar alternative. You can add interests in the same way, and there are additional options like sending images and saving chats.

[maerhiya]

Its because gay and bisexual and trans all mean something but ace and aro do not. Asexuality being a spectrum that includes people who feel sexual attraction and have sex, aromanticism including people who feel romantic attraction and like to date and do date means that ace and aro and aroace characters will be shipped.

You have told the world that asexuality and aromanticism have zero boundaries and anyone can be ace or aro and that aces and aros can do anything and still be ace and aro.

So, yeah, fandom is gonna act weird because well what does it mean for a character to be ace or aro at this point? When i see im a kinky ace posts or im a married aro post why should anyone listen to you guys

alright, let me address this along with a few other things:

aromanticism and asexuality being spectrums do not negate the core of its identities: the lack of attraction.

i'm not sure where this "asexuality and aromanticism have zero boundaries" comes from but that's an oversimplification. i think you're referring to when the community says that there can be vast amounts of nuance in these spectrums, which is true, but they do not have 'zero boundaries' when the very boundary that defines an aro/ace is the lack of attraction (and your misunderstanding comes from people who cherry-pick the parts that make these identities easier to ignore or ship away). just because aro/aces experience that lack of attraction differently doesn't take away the fact that there's still a lack — and that's essentially what sets us apart from everyone else. that's what makes someone aro/ace aro/ace.

moreover, i just wanna say that i'm not generally against shipping when it comes to aro/ace characters (and i don't ship such characters because it would be nice to have some who are simply uninterested/repulsed given that people use the "aro/aces can still be in relationships!" excuse every damn time as if it applies to everyone (and it does not)), but when people do it then they could at least keep and acknowledge the aspects of their identities that lacks attraction. because even if an aro dates and an ace has sex, they are still inherently aro/ace since they do not fully experience the same things that allos experience. aro/aces in relationships are never the same as those of allos. (because, once again, there is still that lack of attraction.)

and i know someone is gonna go off here and say that it's just fiction, but don't you guys understand that people's dismissal and indifference to the identities of these characters can extend to real life? if continued, these misguided and inaccurate perceptions can affect real people (i, myself, fall victim to this), and that becomes harmful.

furthermore, aro/ace characters absolutely mean something as they represent a minority group that is often alienated because people cannot seem to properly comprehend its identities (which you helped prove, by the way. wow). so, it's important that you listen to us because we know what we're talking about when so many people don't. you're also implying that unless aro/aces are presented in one specific, digestible way, then they don't deserve respect — which is incredibly harmful and invalidating.

ultimately, i understand where your confusion is coming from but you can express it without being aphobic. thanks.

[rxvera]

repeat after me, it is antisemitic to make a jewish character christian because it is more palatable to you

[allaboutalf]

A message for some in the AAA fandom:

The show has been promoted as being about Agatha and Billy the whole time, it’s extremely obvious in the marketing and PR and positioning of the two leads.

Wiccan is a character that has huge significance and prominence and the plan was always to have focus on him. The show didn’t bait otherwise, some in the fandom baited themselves that the show was something it wasn’t. And it’s still a show with a primarily female cast and characters with development and storylines. And more to come about them. It just also happens to be a vehicle to introduce one of the most popular and important queer heroes in Marvel. And hopefully his brother and future husband, two other queer characters, the latter being a key part of the Skrull and Kree storyline.

Oh and the name of the show also doesn’t mean every aspect should be focused on one character. Like The Wizard of Oz isn’t about the Wizard.

[benrobertson2004]

Something about nerd/media circles online I don’t get is the obsession with “the lore” when a sequel or adaptation comes out like it’s a weird thing to obsess over in specific like not the plot itself the themes the writers conveyed the characters themselves just if it fits the description given on [series name. Fandom.com] like why?

[jowithavianwings]

Do you know what part of the MCU makes me really mad?

Listen to this quote:

“I have an equation. In the eight years since Mr. Stark announced himself as Iron Man, the number of known enhanced persons has grown exponentially. And during the same period, the number of potentially world-ending events has risen at a commensurate rate. There may be a causality. Our very strength invites challenge. Challenge incites conflict. And conflict… breeds catastrophe. Oversight… oversight is not an idea that can be dismissed out of hand.”

Basically, it’s saying that the Avengers are causing the earth to keep having these near apocalyptic events. I mean nice theory, but it doesn’t hold up at all.

Correlation does not equal causation. In this case, I would argue that the opposite is true. The existence of these world-ending threats caused the Avengers to exist. In the movie side of marvel, most superheroes aren’t mutants. To the mutants, well just because somebody is a mutant doesn’t mean they are going to fight bad guys. Most mutants were probably happy minding their own business until the fabric of the universe started collapsing.

Non-mutant superheroes, on the other hand, are even more ridiculous. Each of them was a response to a pre-existing world-ending threat. Hydra can now use the tesseract, create Captain America. The ten-rings are killing and kidnapping people, here comes Ironman. Hydra is still trying to take over the world, well here is Wanda and Quicksilver.

Superheroes existence isn’t causing all these crazy-ass threats, all these crazy ass threats are creating superheroes.

Because when evil takes over, people show up to fight back. That’s what we as humans do. And preventing access to human rights for enhanced individuals isn’t going to solve shit.

[thehauntingsofficial]

Today, we'll be focusing on one of LLD's main victims in the past. Official-President-Loki was among the many that asgards-trickster-god harassed, most likely coming from a place of jealousy. LLD seems to go for popular users (not just on Tumblr, unfortunately) and spread lies across their page, when they're not guilting and baiting their own death to the user themselves. It's truly nerve-wracking (if not a little embarrassing) the extent they're willing to go to try to ruin a person's life.

The following is evidence of LLD's harassment toward Official-President-Loki. Please stay safe, folks!