#so i personally am not the idea arospec how to person

[arolesbianism]

Ohhhh no it just occured to me that Im probably gonna be seeing a unbearable hoard of bad aro hcs in the dst tag this month huh. Uhhhh gentle reminder that just because Wx used to be human doesn't make hcing them as aro risk free pls be careful with that. Aro ppl who hc them as aro ur fine keep up the good work 👍

[aromantic-diaries]

List of things that imply you may be on the aromantic spectrum (based on personal experience)

You don't get crushes

You only get crushes on fictional characters, celebrities or people who are unattainable to you

If you do have crushes you might not actually want to be with them and you only admire them from a distance

Any crush you have turns out to just be you thinking someone is really cool

You're annoyed by how many love songs there are and how many movies revolve around romance

You don't understand why people are so focused on shipping when it comes to fandoms

You think it's weird that people are obsessed with romance when you don't see it as a priority

You might like romance in theory but in practice you really don't want to have anything to do with it

You do want romance but you don't like anyone in particular and all your daydreams involve a faceless someone rather than an actual person

You can't tell what makes a romantic relationship different from a regular friendship

You have a hard time imagining yourself in romantic scenarios

The idea of someone liking you romantically feels absurd and you can't see why they would do so

You might want someone to like you romantically not because you like them but because it feels validating in a way

Someone liking you romantically makes you feel uncomfortable

Your hobbies are more important to you than your pursuit of romantic relationships

May update this later, also I'm not saying that if several of these apply to you you are definetly arospec but what I am saying is that if that's the case you might wanna think it over

[alliepretends]

Something you alluded to that's a real central probably is that when you have only one character who represents a group you can't represent everyone. From a writing standpoint the very act of rendering a single individual means that some aspects of experience have to chosen over others.

You see this with representation of other identities, if there's only one female character or only one black character--if the woman is feminine then it's imposing hyper-femininity, if she's average than it's against femininity because femininity is bad (of course TV never makes characters butch). Which is why writing advice is usually to have at least 2 so you can portray more duality. Female character A can be smart and Female character B can be less intelligent without saying your holding women to higher standards of "women are more grounded and wiser" but also not saying women are stupid.

With Riz: he's only one guy. He can't possibly represent all the facets of being ace or aro or the intersections of aroace.

But at the same time it's frustrating when major parts of aromanticism are ignored. Not because the other aspects aren't real and important, but because SOME aspects are ignored with fewer opportunities to explore. Like, are there other aro or ace characters on d20? Not really.

And especially because this isn't a criticism of the actors but of the general fandom thing to performatively only care about some topics, I think it's fair to call out people's unwillingness to engaged in certain ideas. If people are qpr shipping Riz with others, while frustrating, some people might just want to see themselves represented. It's often a difficult position to be in compared.

Anyway, I didn't mean to make this so long, I was just saying, that I do feel you about the everyone fighting over the bone point

I agree with all your essential points here.

I will point out though that d20 does have other aro and/or ace characters. Liam is ace but not aro. Prince Andhera is ace and word of god arospec (although I haven't watched ACoFaF yet to know how much this informs his story). As nervous as I am about the execution of Riz's storyline, I think d20 deserves a lot of credit for the representation it has. Aro and ace are not terribly common identities on the scale of things and I don't need every story to feature someone like me. What bugs me more about the Riz stuff is the fandom culture aspect of it. Neither Liam nor Prince Andhera appear to be centered in fandom conversations the way Riz is. Plus, Liam is definitely not aro so even when he is centered it's still in a way that allows for fandom romance culture to go unchallenged and Andhera's ao3 tag seems to feature plenty of shipping.

But your core point stands, no aro character can be all things to all aro people. And absolutely it's fair that people from a wide spectrum of aro experiences want to lay claim to one of the few aro characters on offer. It's just hard for me personally to find empathy for that in the ship-centric culture of fandom.

[genderqueerdykes]

Ok so, I’m kind of aromantic? I think? But I don’t know which label fits best but I would like one because I like to have words to describe my experiences. So I know for sure that I’m ficto but I do still experience a form of romantic attraction to real people. I have a boyfriend who I love and it’s not platonic but I don’t know if it actually romantic, it feels like something in between. I am also a romantic, I enjoy the idea of relationships and thinking about other people and characters in relationships. But I feel like my own ability to feel romantic love isn’t really there but it also kind of is? Thing is, I used to get massively strong crushes on people and I don’t really anymore even though I’m in the stage of life where that’s ’supposed’ to happen.

I also genuinely don’t know how to explain this to my boyfriend, I want to stay with him, I don’t have an issue with the label boyfriend being used for me or him. But I feel I should tell him.

hello there, thanks for stopping by! sorry for the late reply

i think you may be on the right track- aromantic identities are extremely varied! some people use aromantic to mean a total lack of romantic feelings/attraction, while others experience them to some degree, in varying levels of intensity at times, or have levels of attraction that can't easily be defined as strictly romantic. it sounds like your experience could very easily fit in here!

there are lots of partnering aros, and even aros who consider themselves hopeless romantics. you're definitely not alone there! while i'm a romance repulsed aro, there are lots of aros who are romance favorable!

you may also want to look into the term greyromantic- it is used by people who feel they fit in between or blur the lines between romantic and romantic attraction, feel their experience is somewhat or not fully aromantic, or feel as though their experience is nuanced enough that aromantic might not give the full picture. there are a lot more experiences that fit under the greyromantic label as well

aroflux may also be an option for you, which is an identity where someone feels they are aromantic usually most of the time but has fluctuating levels of intensity, sometimes even fluctuating into a romantic lable with their aromantic identity being less intense for periods of time.

you can also call yourself "aromantic spectrum" or "arospec" for short!

if you feel it's important enough to tell him, go ahead, i think honesty is the best policy. i've had some bad experiences telling ex romantic partners that i was aromantic, but i'm happier out of relationships than i am inside of them. i hope he takes it well, some people for whatever reason take it personally and i don't quite understand it. good luck, hope you are able to figure out how you identify and how you feel about yourself. take care

[archivomeow]

yelena belova is aroace.

Yelena Belova is canonically aroace.

Lately people dismissing that has been getting on my nerves VERY much, so I’m making this post lol.

First the terminology:

Aromantic — an individual who doesn’t experience romantic attraction.

Asexual — an individual that doesn’t experience sexual attraction.

AroSpec — spectrum that includes different aromantic identities, from aros who don’t feel romantic attraction to those who do under certain circumstances or rarely.

AceSpec — spectrum that includes different asexual identities, from aces who don’t feel sexual attraction to those who do under certain circumstances or rarely.

So first thing i will put here is this;

This in my humble opinion should be enough of a proof, but apparently it is not.

First this part of an interview, the person speaking is a creator/co-creator of Yelena. She says she is most likely to identify as asexual than to follow Nat’s romantic path. Hinting at both aro & ace.

So in the comics Yelena shows no interest dating, as far as i am aware she has no romantic interest in the comics. She is repulsed by sex, she calls herself „nothing” referring to her sexual identity.

As much as many like to say she is a lesbian, she is not, how fucking stupid you sound, honestly. She says it herself, if I said I’m not a lesbian, would you question it? No? Then don’t question her, she says she is not a lesbian, she has no wlw storyline. Drop the fucking lesbian hc.

Some possible foreshadowing in the MCU

1. When she is talking with a widow and a former Ana (show: Hawkeye), there is a line said by the widow accompanying her: „…you and Natasha can be reunited again and live your sex in the city fantasy”.

^ Yelena leaves the room, as soon as the word „sex” is mentioned her face drops, then we have this scene where she’s looking at herself in the mirror.

2. When talking about kids and family (movie: Black Widow) she mentions she wants a dog.

3. When describing „fake story” of her life she made up because her birth certificate was burnt she says Natasha has a husband and talks about her parents, but mentions nothing about her husband or possible spouses or children. (movie: Black Widow)

4. Yelena tends to wear a lot of aro/ace flag colors.

green coat & purple lipstick (green = aro | purple = ace)

yellow & blue colors = aroace flag

Overall Yelena wears a lot of green and white and black together, aromantic flag colors.

^^ can you call that „over the top?” yeah sure… let me remind yall something else:

when enid wore this sweather yall went WILD.

but when Yelena is wearing aroace colors all the time it’s called „reaching”…?

I will continue this with even more, because while you can agree with me and say she is aroace, still there will be people who claim she is aroace, agree, but then this fucking argument comes into place:

„AROS CAN DATE”

„ACES CAN FUCK”

„QPRS EXIST”

Do you see what’s wrong with those sentences? Nothing.

There’s a „but” thoooo…

There is nothing wrong with those, but using those arguments to totally ignore her sexuality ship her and treat her like suddenly she is allo is not it.

Yelena has shown no interest in dating or sex, we can assume she is sex-repulsed as she has shows repulsion to sex and she is to me at least implied to be romance-repulsed.

And we’ve found the problem.

Sex Repulsed Aces are as you can imagine repulsed by sex. Romance Repulsed Aros are repulsed by romance… So how is someone repulsed by said things engaging in said interaction and is not repulsed by them???

I think it’s a great idea to write her into said situations to show she is repulsed and to show it’s okay, because her life, my life, the lives of other uninterested in such thing aro/ace, our lives don’t end here.

Using how some people navigate through their sexuality to justify this is wrong.

You wouldn’t write a lesbian with a man, because bi lesbians exist and she may be a bi lesbian, right?

^ just an fyi, that’s an example, the term bi-lesbian is extremely harmful to both bisexuals and lesbians. check out this for more.

The QPR dilemma is that you don’t understand what a QPR is… it’s not more than friends…it’s not in the middle, it’s out of the regular binary of relationships. Relationships I actually think are QPRs:

Friends with benefits — purely platonic, but you fuck.

Situationship — just friends that do romantic stuff together, unless you call it a romantic relationship, with the other person agreeing on that, it is not one.

QPRs are amazing and beautiful, but it’s not always about fucking and kissing and „acting like a couple” but being a QPR. It can be being friends and living together, not temporary. It can be being friends and co-parenting. It can be many things.

But as I said Yelena is repulsed, why would someone repulsed by sex/romance engage in said thing happily with no doubts, fears, negative feelings just because it’s a qpr, so it’s suddenly fine…?

This is for now all I have to say about this.

As an AroAce, who desires no romantic relationship or a sexual one please please please let us have this representation, for once in our fucking lives.

MORE OF MY POSTS ON YELENA BEING AROACE AND ARO/ACE LINKS LINKED HERE:

answering an anon-ask.

more talk about the comic panel.

harmful aro stereotypes.

shipping aroaces + yelena belova.

[bloggingboutburgers]

hey! just stumbled on your blog today and I have to say it is one of the best surprises of my day! Happy to meet you as another aroace french fellow!! I have a question (a bit more private, so you do not have to answer if you are feeling uncomfortable about answering)! The comics about you and your partner truly are adorable, and you two seem to be really close! Society has this very strict view of couples so that they HAVE to love each other romantically, be mutually jealous, have sex, yadda yadda... obviously there is much more diverse couples than that, and thank goodness!! So I was wondering, since there is no romantic attraction on your side, what drives you in in your partner? Is it the secure and complex feeling of intimacy one has when in a relationship? Or something else entirely? I am curious! I love to hear about arospec couple experience! wish you the best for you and your partner! lots of love and support!!

Hey! Very happy to e-meet you as well, and thank you so much for the kind words TwT Very glad to be a nice surprise!

That's also a fair question! In all fairness, my partner was the one who brought up the idea of us being in a queerplatonic relationship, and my reaction to that was… Painfully anticlimactic. But within months of trying it out I was definitely sold, way more sold than I thought I was gonna be.

I still sorta ask myself the question pretty often, to be honest. Like, what draws me to this so much, because it surprises me a lot, and makes me question myself as an aromantic at times – even though I always wind up coming back to the conclusion that, yeah, I am very much an aromantic.

Security definitely plays a big part into it – I'll even say safety. The fact that being with them allows me to get affection and positive physical contact without having anything expected of me beyond that in return is huge to me. I may not be interested in romantic love but I want affection from time to time like a lot of human beings I think, and I've found myself being pretty touch-starved/hug-starved quite a few times in my life. So I'd let friends hug me a lot, up until I realized a handful of them might’ve been seeing something other than just the bare thing of sharing affection as a human being in those hugs, and put me on the defensive. And then I’ve lived most of my life being wary of most people and of what they’d expect from me if I dared to get « too close » to them.

What I have with my partner allows me to have that affection, and to be able to give that affection, be it physically, verbally, or anything like that, without having to worry about my boundaries being crossed. They make me feel loved and safe at the same time and it can be a pretty tall order for someone like me. I guess that’s how I could put it best?

…Also they’re adorable and very funny, overall a very sunny person and I’m honoured I get to selfishly enjoy that from a front row.

…I could go on and on because there’d be a lot to say but yeah!! I hope that made sense TwT Thank you so much for the lovely good wishes^^

[the--highlanders]

can I just say thank you for writing ace twojamie fic!! I'm aroace and I genuinely thought this ship would be too obscure for that to exist but I'm so thankful I was wrong and it was amazing fic btw -you're a great writer!!

oh man thank you!! I know I say this every time someone says something remotely nice about unsorted but I really am always taken aback by how well it was received and how many people seem to like it <3

but I totally get what you mean about aro/ace fic being hard to find in fandom. like, I don't think I've ever had a major ship where I haven't read them as ace in some way, and yet even in far bigger fandoms I've struggled to find fic where the characters are ace. (to the point that I have opened fics in a haze of excitement only to realise I missed the red flags in the tags and it's actually just an aphobic joke :///) & I imagine the romance-heavy focus of fandom makes looking for aro fic even worse.

two and jamie have just always seemed to me like a ship that is. not very allo in any respect, tho. I definitely remember seeing a post interpreting them as queerplatonic soon after I first watched two's era (would link it, but this was like 2015 and I have no idea where I saw it or if it's even still kicking around). at the time I was kinda on the fence about shipping them and I was like, yeah, that makes total sense to me actually. even tho I obviously eventually shifted into reading them as romantic personally, I would still happily vibe with interpreting them as queerplatonic, bc the most important thing with them as characters is that they're together in a partnership, whatever form that takes. & over the last couple of years I've also really started to toy with two not exactly experiencing romantic attraction like humans do (which I'll admit is kinda influenced by my own inability to distinguish/define romantic attraction), so maybe re-injecting some arospec vibes? idk. & I've been hcing them as ace for so long that I don't even really have a reason or justification for it, that's just. how they are, in my head.

despite the size of the fandom and the ship tho I do know there's a handful of people who DO read them as ace. which probably says something about classic who fandom demographics gjkd. but also is such a refreshing vibe for me compared to other fandoms I've been in or read for. peace & love on planet earth etc etc

[queerbatting]

it's possible to be sex repulsed without being sex negative

first I guess I should explain the difference between these two terms. as best as I can describe it, sex repulsion describes how sex makes you feel personally, while sex negativity describes your (sometimes moral) standing on sexuality as a concept. sex negativity is a mindset where you're opposed to the act of sexuality and is laced with anti-queer rhetoric. it's popular with christian types and ultra conservatives

I am asexual and mostly sex repulsed. I cringe at the idea of sexual contact with another person, to the point where I even dislike french kissing, and I get uncomfortable when watching sex or reading about it. despite this, I still see the value of sexuality. sex is important to a lot of people, whether it be through the bonds they share or just how good it makes them feel. I understand the history the queer community has with sex and kink, and feel it would be antithetical to our mission for me to suddenly claim that sex is Dirty or Immoral or Deviant (conservative talking points, btw!)

I'm not telling you to suddenly fall in love with the platonic ideals of sex, but I am saying that we as a community need to be careful to not step into sex negativity. I feel the same way as an arospec person about romance negativity, but I'm mostly romance favorable so I'll leave that post for another person.

[bethany-sensei]

Happy spoopy day, friends and fiends 🎃

I am once again inviting you to check out my original queer fantasy series, Chronicle of the Spheres, featuring angels and demons and other stuff as well!

Book 1: Balances, is optional but it does give solid background on several of the major characters. It’s literary fiction about a stray angel figuring out where he belongs.

Books 2-4: The Shadow Prince (complete), The Sacred Tree (complete), and The Sword of Heaven (ongoing) are a set of interconnected events in which turbulent politics and supernatural forces bring an unlikely adventuring party together for a fetch quest that is probably a really bad idea, followed by a rescue operation.

There are also a bunch of short pieces just hanging around, fleshing out the world a bit or just embarrassing the characters.

Featuring, in no particular order:

An arospec character who is at the center of a growing polycule

Dragonfolk who get more dragonish as they get older (not explored much yet but it will be)

A thief with a chronic illness

So much PTSD

An asexual who makes a string of really stupid choices that probably turn out good for him

Found Family all over the place

A 5000yo cat demon who fully has the personality of one of the actual cats I have lived with

Heaven and Hell aren’t good or bad, they’re just places

Enoch runs a brewpub (Kit made sure I included this) and he’s a mensch

Demonslayer is a job and it’s not what it sounds like because of linguistic drift

These are all on my ao3 because I know how fragile life is and I don’t want them to disappear 💕

[miloway]

Just read the lesbian masterdoc out of curiosity, and I realise how much being arospec kinda muddles everything.

Cuz, I don't really feel romantic feelings, have 1 sexual experience and that was with a fem presenting nonbinary person, and we both had no idea what we were doing.

I have been in a online relationship with a guy, but we broke up cuz 1. he was an asshole, 2. I figured out I was arospec (now I'm questioning if it was just cuz he was a guy, but then again I don't really feel romantic feelings with women either)

So I've come to the conclusion that I need to kiss a guy and if I feel something, I'm not lesbian, but if I don't feel anything, I am lesbian.

But the question is how the hell am I supposed to do that when I'm awkward as hell, and like only 2 people in my entire life time have hit on me (irl), one being the said person earlier, the other being a science museums cafeteria worker literally 4 hours after my grandpa died 💀 (I am not joking, I couldn't even see what she looked like cuz I wasn't wearing glasses cuz of all the crying)

So I sorta feel like I'm in a stalemate with myself, how the hell am I supposed to combat this, do I just wait until something happens? I'm the mean time I'm just gonna identify as queer cuz I don't have the time or energy to go looking for answers rn,

that being said advice would be greatly appreciated

[frosty-the-killer-doll]

Do you have any snow system headcannons? /nf

dude you have no fucking idea

during s3, Caitlin and Frost are more blended together than separate individuals, bleeding into each other and influencing the other's emotions and actions. I believe in system terms this is called blurring

FROST ISNT DEAD NO SHE ISNT LISTEN LISTEN SHUT UP!! LISTEN

Khione did Not get that the name Hellfrost was a play on hellfire for a WHILE.

they do not inherently consider themselves sisters fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you i think that's an entirely uncreative and dumb way to take their relationships and it feels almost... ableist? maybe the right word is stereotypical- to, like, assume that that's the only relationship system members could possibly have? like, someone else always labeled their relationships as sisterly before any member of the Snow System ever did. i just don't think Cait and Frost would have ever labeled themselves like that if someone else didn't assume it first, tho I don't think Khione would mind. as a Killersnow shipper I am biased as he'll but I BELIEVE THAT CAIT IS IN LOVE WITH FROST AND FROST LOVES CAITY BACK. But Cait is repressed as he'll and canon-wise once someone else decided that Frost was her sister Caitlin accepted it bc of her crippling pipe dreams of heterosexuality and normal family bonds and trying to make herself easily understandable to all her singlet friends. and Frost would go along with it because of how much she loves Caitlin and how much she doesn't want to lose her and risk ruining their relationship by admitting her feelings. i'm rambling but they're not sisters. it's like when Supercorp claimed to love each other like sisters- we didn't buy it then, i'm not gonna buy it now, fuck everyone, when Frost said "but you're blood" she meant that they literally used to share the same blood because they SHARED THE SAME FUCKEN BODY. im!! rambling!!

also the body split never happened:3c these headcanons are becoming delusions

ya notice Frost's hair changes over the seasons? pure white to grayish with blueish undertones? that's not a dye job, her hair just started growing in darker and more colorful as she developed from a villain to a hero. Caitlin ran multiple tests on why or how the change was affecting their hair and couldn't find anything conclusive

Frost thinks it's hilarious that she used to work with a so-called god, Savitar, and now their newest system member, Khione, is an actual god. Caitlin still hasn't figured out fucking how or why their alter became godly.

Khione came to exist after Hellfrost sort of deflated back into Frost, going through a sick period similar to that of Caity's little, hehe, cold in s6-- all that energy from Hellfrost and E-Prime Deathstorm dispersed enough to manifest a new, powerful, adorable personality.

Caity likes to say that all the ginger and blue hues of Khione's hair truly makes her look like fire and ice personified

Similar to how Frost maxed out Cait's credit cards on art, Khione absolutely robbed Caitlin while buying herself a wardrobe. she may be an all-knowing god of nature but she does not know shit about currency.

Caitlin is a polyamorous biromantic sex-repulsed asexual, Frost is a polyamorous arospec lesbian suffering from comphet (this is an anti M*rk Bl*ine blog), Khione is a non-partnering pansexual lesbian. i might have already mentioned this but Cait and Frost are intra-system girlfriends

even Khione isn't completely sure how to pronounce her name she saw it written Once and just kinda lets everyone call her whatever K-thing is in their heart

Khione has never misspelled Caitlin's name-- something Frost cannot truthfully claim

Cait educated herself a lot on system terms etc etc when she was first Going Through It as a coping mechanism and in my heart she would not hesitate to politely correct Team Flash when they refer to Frost as a split personality or alter ego. Frost doesn't really give a lot of shits on proper terms but still doesn't like being called a split personality, a persona or ego bc it implies that she is just Caitlin Slightly To The Left.

When Khione was figuring out her name, Caitlin suggested the name Crystal and Frost suggested the name Louise-- they were Khione's top competitors and Khione considers them like middle names of sorts

Makeup-wise, Khione leads more towards Cait's aesthetic, but Frost helped her learn bolder eyeliner

Frost and Khione like to wear fake tattoos and piercings because Caitlin isn't comfy getting them permanently. Khione did not realize this until after she got an actual tattoo. it's just a small little black snowflake on their shoulder. Frost argues that since Khione got a real tat, Frost should be allowed to get one real piercing. the debate rages on

Frost didn't really call Khione by Khione for a while, since it felt weird considering hey that was her childhood name, calling her Khione 2.0 for way longer than anyone would've liked

all three are trying to co-host, they are bad at it

Frost leaves most of the body upkeep to Cait and Khione. she has never brushed their teeth in her life.

i could go on and on but if i did that i would never stop and i have mouths to feed 🫡

[bilesproblems]

hi we have one question

we heard the argument "the split attraction model was invented before, but it was spread by asexuals for asexuals, so using the sam not on the a-spectrum is aphobia, the use of sam is only allowed when in the a-spectrum".

can u say something about this?

our thinking ended with “according to this logic, using microwaves without being in the military at war is bad because they were created in war, by the military and for the military". we don’t understand what else can be written.

we hope u will find time to answer us.

Seeing as I am asexual and arospec, I am more than qualified to talk about this

The idea that split attraction can only exist for people with aspec attractions and can't be a divergence of orientation unless the divergent orientation is completely a(n)- as an argument against mspec lesbians is utter bullshit that doesn't give any respect to the complexity of the anattractional spectrum, argues against people's real lived experiences (you literally can't say the SAM is only for aspecs when people in real life have split attraction, that's like disagreeing with being gay, you aren't able to have an opinion or stance on it because it's just fact and not subjective in any way shape or form that people are gay, and that non-aspecs experience split attraction), and completely ignores the nuances that being aspec might have on one's identity- including identifying as an mspec lesbian

I'm ace and arospec. I'm asexual, specifically black stripe ace/suptiliasexual/absexual (all terms for no attraction at all not even a little), cupiosexual, and pseudosexual (other attraction can mimic sexual attraction), and I'm both demiromantic and apresromantic. I have somewhat complicated relationships with attraction and favorability, as I experience them differently than most people. I also consider myself para-oriented as an ace, because I feel like I have a sexual orientation despite feeling no attraction, because of my favorability (I would only want to be with people I'm romantically attracted to, so my orientations aren't divergent, but keep in mind some para-oriented people might feel their para-orientation is different than their other orientation(s).) Given my complex experience with attraction, not only do I think there's no way on earth it could even be remotely appropriative or offensive for a person to describe a phenomenon they experience in similar terms to us, even if we experience it differently, but I actually think it's more aphobic to take the stance that only aspecs can use the SAM. For one, there's a lot in between totally ace and totally allo, so the idea that orientations described by split attraction like bi lesbian or straight gay are aphobic ignores that a demisexual alloromantic could be biromantic and attracted to all genders, but exclusively sexually attracted to women. For two, saying split attraction doesn't apply to split orientations, only splits in where someone is on the ace-to-allo scale, delegitimizes asexuality as an orientation itself, when it often is one, and further argues that sexual and romantic attraction cannot be truly separate, because how could your orientations differ unless they are separate? Aces and Aros have been arguing for years that sexual and romantic attractions are different, that you shouldn't equate sex and romance, etc. Saying people who are alloallo or have split attraction that includes different orientations is literally furthering aphobic arguments while trying to convince the aspecs who will call you out otherwise that this person is The Enemy

It's also really dumb based on the principle that someone saying they have a certain lived experience can't be discrimination or appropriation. Not only was the SAM first described for bi straights, but if a person says they experience two forms of attraction differently, that's split attraction, period. You can't say they don't get to use the model that describes that experience and aren't allowed to separately label the two attractions they feel differently as two different labels because of some bullshit about how only aspecs can use it because they made it popular. If a single non-aspec ever experienced split attraction, then the model isn't allowed to be aspec exclusive, period.

It's also worth noting that not only can some aspecs be mspec lesbians and experience split orientations, but sometimes that unique and complex relationship with being aspec is why a person would identify as an mspec lesbian. Para-orientations and being favorable towards having sex/relationships with genders that they're not romantically/sexually attracted to (order of which comes before or after the slash matters), experiencing attraction rarely enough that one could be a pan straight because they've only been attracted to people of the opposite gender so far, but in theory would totally be open to anyone, one could be orchidspec and feel attraction to many genders but be repulsed by all but one, being aroace and feeling two very significant, different forms of attraction and calling yourself a straight lesbian because you're a woman who's only platonically attracted to girls and some enby folk, while feeling strong aesthetic attraction towards men, exclusively, the list goes on. Being aspec is complicated and leads to very different relationships with our orientations. It's ignorant to claim labels like bi lesbian aren't SAM compatible, because aspecs "own" split attraction, when our complex relationships can lead to identifying as an mspec lesbian or other "contradictory" SAM term.

[acilykos]

Hi. I see you're aroace and I'm too so I was wondering if I could ask you a question? Idk if this is something you do I found you through aroace senkuu post so absolutely feel free to ignore if you don't want to talk about it.

So basically I'm trying to figure out what exactly loveless means. BC a lot of people both arospec and not have told me that label might fit (as in I want 0 romance etc. But also no platonic equivalent). However. I am a very passionate person about my chosen career, music, art, my cat. Those are all things I feel so strongly about, I wouldn't know what to call it but "love". Similarly there are people I care about, just not in a way where I want romance with them or a platonic version of that kind of relationship.

(I've seen you call senkuu loveless too, and I'm a little confused BC he clearly does care deeply about some people and possibly even more so science. Why not call that love? Is it a terminology thing?)

I'm not trying to pick a fight, I really like your analysis of senkuu.

I'm genuinely trying to understand.

It's possible to reject the societal notion of what love is. I do so myself.

But there's no denying that the chemicals involved are something everyone experiences. Like. Everyone gets dopamine, vasopressin, oxytocin etc. It's just the context that's different. Much like oxytocin is experienced both in mother-infant bonding and in sexual contact, I get a dopamine rush listening to music but not making out with someone.

(granted romantic love hasn't been that well examined but there does seem to be a consensus on the general chemistry involved)

Same chemicals but different result/feeling, you know?

Not getting these chemicals at all is impossible I think, so that can't be what loveless means.

So what does it mean??? Is it just about society's perception of love??

I personally approached my lack of romantic attraction by Googling the brain chemistry BC clearly I wasn't getting anywhere with the emotional side. I'm not an expert. But the definitions of different aro orientations I see commonly, don't actually address this at all. It's like everyone decided on a different definition of "love" and nobody told me any of them.

Again, I know this sounds very passionate, but I always sound like that. I'm not trying to pick a fight, nor am I expecting you to solve my identity crisis. So really no need to reply if you don't want to. I can see how this would be. A lot to try and answer.

Hi, hi!!

First of all, I'm happy to meet a fellow AroAce!! I'm also calling myself loveless because it fits the most, I did research before and found it was the closest to describe myself.

Second of all, I think it depends on the definition of what loveless means for oneself because as always, sexuality at the end of the day is a fluid and personal thing.

Apologies if some of the thoughts seem jumbled or contradicting. I just woke up, was very happy about getting to ramble and I just don't know how to properly describe my "emotional thought processes" because I decided to illustrate my points with examples.

It's a long read too, I hope you don't mind.

Personally, I define it as a "lack of attraction" because oriented and angled AroAces experience other types of attraction (like platonic, aesthetic, etc.), but don't ask me to explain the difference between either, I really have no idea what it is (no offense to any angled or oriented AroAces). Personally, I find it ironic that the two most known "orientations" of AroAce people are still based on experiencing attraction despite AroAces being known for not experiencing it. So we had to create another word to say "Yeah, we actually don't experience any type of attraction”. It's also ironic to me that we call it "loveless" because it's not that we don't love, we just aren't attracted to people.

I'm an artist, I love art and drawing myself, as well as writing.

I'm also a scientist, I love chemistry, astronomy, pharmacology, psychology, really, I'm just always happy to talk about any subject. In fact, that's my current career, I'm a pharmaceutical technician.

I have favourite songs, favourite subjects, favourite seasons. Favourite shows, favourite characters, hell, I also have favourite ships.

I care about my family and friends too.

It's just that I'm not attracted to people. I don't want a romantic relationship because I don't experience romantic attraction. Same as I don't want a sexual one. I just don't see the need or appeal for another person if the goal is to just have a dinner date or a climax. Sure romance and sex can come hand in hand, but that depends on whether or not you experience either or if you're committed in a relationship. Anyways, I digress.

These two are the typical ones people talk about when it comes to attraction, but then there are the illusive platonic and aesthetic attractions, and many more I believe. One of them is explained later which causes AroAces in the first place to also use the labels oriented and angled.

Platonic attraction, or at least as I come to understand it, is seeing a person and just wanting to be their friend. You see someone and you think "wow, I really want to be their friend!!" also apparently called having a "squish".

I don't do that. I don't really feel something compelling me to talk to this person to become their friend.

Same as I don't feel attraction towards aesthetically pleasing people (which is also a highly individual definition). Or well, for a lack of a better term, the only "Wow, I really like how they look" I experience is in terms of gender envy. I don't want to be with them, I don't want to be them either. I just think "I'd like to express my gender like that". If that makes any sense.

I see people talk about "they're hot" and "they're so cute looking" and how they have this attraction towards them because of the way they look, but I just don't? I may appreciate the beauty by acknowledging that someone has nice features or a cool style, but it's the same as me looking at the weather and going "Ah, the sun is shining, isn't that nice." before continuing to do whatever I did, not spending more time on thinking about the weather.

For a real life example: My sister and I are going to a driving school. She has an aesthetic (and I call it on purpose an aesthetic attraction. She has not spoken once with the guy and she also said it's not exactly a crush) on one of the other people there, which to me makes no sense given his general character he revealed at least at the driving school. She even took his pen he forgot at school (just some company gifted pen from when we got a visit that day) in hopes of giving it back to him and struck up a conversation (She failed to. She was too embarrassed, in case you're curious).

I only acknowledge he has a nice jawline. That's it.

I don't feel any type of attraction towards people. I don't want or need to be their romantic partner. I don't want or need a sexual relationship. Just because someone has a personality that clicks with mine, I don't automatically feel the need to become their friend. If we become friends, great. If we don't it is what it is.

Obviously when I'm friends with someone, I care about them, but it's just... not the way friendships are usually portrayed. I don't feel the need to have many friends, or meet up with them constantly or go on trips or anything of the like. I like them a lot, I want them to be well. I just... don't really feel an attraction? I don't know how to properly explain it.

An attraction for me is either the need to be constantly with them, one way or another, because you physically and/or mentally/psychologically feel the need to be in their presence, whenever an opportunity arises OR that you spent a lot of time just thinking about them (daydreaming, fantasies, you get it). I just don't feel like that. I'm fine with not talking or seeing friends for multiple months or years. I'm also fine if we don't talk constantly too. If the friendship ended because we couldn't maintain it, it wouldn't destroy me.

It actually happened multiple times, I'm fine with it. Do I miss them or feel nostalgic when I think about past experiences with them? Of course, I care about them as people.

But I'd feel the same about it even if we had stayed friends, because I obviously feel nostalgic with things I did with my current friends.

I just really don't have the ""need"" to have friends in my life. I'm not "attracted" towards them, I care about them and I like them, but it's just not the type of attraction or even love that society usually attributes to what (best) friends are supposed to be or behave like.

(Same for my family. I haven't seen some of them in years, I don't need to. I like them, I care about their wellbeing.)

You may be wondering, if that's my attitude towards friendships, how do I even have friendships.

They talked to me one day and we happened to keep talking because we liked what each other had to say. It's been years later, so it's safe to say that we still like each other, but not once have I ever initiated a friendship, funnily enough. All I did was just... reply or talk once and we kept talking and meeting up, and eventually we became friends, and because they know a lot about me and I about them, I care about them.

And this is what I think Senkū is like too.

He cares about his friends deeply and he obviously cares about his family too. But he doesn't feel any attraction to people. He never once had an "I need to be their friend" moment. He accidentally sort of becomes friends with them because of the situation they're in and then develops a friendship with them because they've been through a lot of things for multiple years.

How did he meet Taiju? Because Taiju saved his machinery. Senkū didn't have any friends prior to that. But then they talked and spent their childhood together and became friends.

Taiju introduced him to Yuzuriha, they talked, she helped with his experiments as well, and they too became friends.

Senkū not once initiated a friendship.

He may have approached some of them first, but not because he wanted to be their friend/felt platonic attraction, he just needed them for a plan, then he used them for his plans, but they stuck around and they talked and time passed.

If it comes to his plans or science, he talks first. If it comes to any "emotional" conversational topic, someone else initiates it.

Senkū just doesn't feel the need to have emotional connections, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't care about his friends or won't develop friendships, if that makes sense. He doesn't seek them, but if friendships happen to develop, he accepts it. He doesn't portray it outwardly, but deep within his heart he still cares.

Everyone in his life started out as an ally, it eventually became friendship. Senkū didn't recruit people because he wanted friends, he recruited them because he had a need for allies to wage war against Tsukasa, then Ibara, then Whyman.

You can even apply it to Senkū's relationship with Xeno, who is according to the fanbook one of Senkū's "closest relationships" (the other one being Byakuya). Senkū respects Xeno as a scientist and as the only NASA employee who actually helped him build a rocket, but even then it's because Xeno talked first and their relationship was strictly mentor and mentee, it was hardly a friendship in what society defines it as anyway. I guess the closest equivalent would be Marty McFly and Doc Brown from Back to the Future (I know, Marty isn't Doc's mentee, but it's about the assisting in science projects part), if it comes to media, but even then Senkū's and Xeno's mentorship would not fit the definition of friendship the way Marty's and Doc's does.

I also call Senkū loveless, because he would never enter a queer platonic relationship (qpr). Entering one would mean you experience a type of connection that is more than friendship, but not romantic or sexual. Or at least that's how I came to understand it. Personally, I'm still confused on what they're actually like aside from them developing from a "tertiary form of attraction". This is where angled and oriented AroAces come in, and why some people call themselves "AroAce lesbians" for example. They experience a different type of attraction towards women that's not just friendship, but it's also not romantic or sexual (at least that's how I understand it, any tertiary attraction feeling AroAces correct or explain it to me, because it's been confusing me for years).

Now look at Senkū and tell me that he'd ever enter such a relationship, when he barely feels the need to make friends on his own. He says it himself "love causes only problems" because of the emotions involved in it. He also, as we established, doesn't feel the need to make friends. If that's already too much and Senkū doesn't have the need for friends, and a QPR is similar, except it lacks the romantic and sexual part and is supposedly "more than a mere friendship", then Senkū definitely wouldn't have that.

I think it's important to mention that, but I think at this point it is obvious, I don't define attraction and caring as the same things.

Why would I? It isn't the same thing, otherwise we wouldn't have different words for it.

Attraction means I myself feel the need to be close to whatever attracts me, maybe that I can't stop thinking about it because I need it in my life, but it can also be superficial.

Care is that it doesn't cross my mind every day, but maybe I happen to think about it once because it crossed my mind, or if I'm with friends or family who tell me about something that happened to them, I care about their wellbeing.

You may also have noticed that I barely even used the word "love" despite talking about being "loveless". As I mentioned in the beginning, I really don't think it's the right term. We love. We care. But it's just not the love people think of first (aka romantic). I love my hobbies, I love my friends and family, I love my favourite characters. But none of this is what society tells me that love is supposed to be or feel like. But it's the most direct way of saying "I don't experience any type of attraction", as misleading as it is, sadly.

And that's it, basically.

Again, it's just my own definition and experience, so how true it is for the majority of AroAces or how much you agree with me, is totally up to you and anyone else. Emotional matters are confusing, and a lot of the time don't make sense and are hard to put into words, but I gave it my best shot with all I know right now. If you're curious or think that loveless may not be the right term after all, you're welcome to do more research on the terms angled and oriented, I bet there are a lot of AroAces who identify with those labels ready to help you out, and who know much more about it than me.

I hope I was able to help you in any way to find some clarity! Thanks again for stopping by, feel free to do that again any time!!

[aromantic-diaries]

Hey, so um... How do I know I'm aro or ace? I used to think I wasn't but Ig it's been getting difficult to feel romantic/sexual feelings. And if I am, what do I do with that knowledge?

Hi! I recommend checking out this post i made cause it has some stuff that might help you figure out if you're aromantic. Though it doesn't mention asexuality. Anyways, there are a couple of questions you should ask yourself if you're contemplating whether you're aro/ace and you're feeling unsure

When it comes to asexuality, there is the case where one might think they're attracted to someone while just thinking they look good. Aesthetic attraction is a thing after all, so think about whether you do feel sexually attracted to people or just find them good looking. There's also the case of finding the idea of sexual things appealing while not wanting to participate in them. It can be similar with aromanticism, admiring someone or enjoying their company and mistaking it for a crush is something that happens to a lot of arospec people who have yet to discover themselves. So the question is "Am I attracted to this person or do I just admire them" in both cases

Another helpful question you should ask yourself is "Do I want romance and sex or do I just think I want it because it's what everyone else wants?" It can be hard to recognize when you don't like these things when they're pretty much treated as the most important thing ever. It's everywhere and I remember not wanting to feel left out while also being put off by the idea of actually being with anyone.

There are some personal experiences that were signs for me, such as feeling annoyed at the overwhelming amount of romance in media, not really understanding the emotional connection, being freaked out by the idea of having sex, feeling isolated because my peers were getting into relationships and I wasn't, often feeling inadequate in my own relationship and feeling like I was lying to my partner about liking them, being uncomfortable with the idea of being attracted to people and wanting a relationship but not actually liking anyone . If you can relate to any of this, you could possibly be aroace

As for what to do, it's up to you. If you feel safe and have people in your life who are understanding and supportive, you can come out to them but it's your choice whether you want to or not. If you don't wanna come out and you prefer to keep it private, that's perfectly valid as well. You can always use the "I'm not seeking anyone right now I'm more focused on [whatever it is you're focused on]" card if someone's being invasive. Discovering yourself is scary at first but as you go along you'll get more comfortable and learn new things about yourself. The aspec community is generally very welcoming and can open up a whole new perspective, so I recommend seeking it out. Even if you're not aro or ace after all you can still learn a lot.

Anyways, I hope this was helpful for you and you can figure yourself out, however long it takes. Happy early pride month!!

[lighthousegod]

Something abt being on the aro-spectrum that I havent seen a lot is talk about feelings of jealousy.

I am a jealous person, and I'm only figuring that out as an adult. I was jealous as a kid, too, but I never thought of it in a way besides platonic. Eventually I stopped having best friends so I stopped being as jealous and bitter when my friends hung out with other people more than me.

Even though I knew I had a tendency to get jealous of others when I had a "best friendship," I never considered myself fo be jealous in a romantic context. Any time anyone would get angry when their partners talked to someone, especially straight couples who's members talked to the opposite gender, I would get confused. Like, you're officially in a relationship, right? Why would your partner agree to that if they wanted to be with some other person?

But as I got older, I understood more. I had one "crush" in my highschool years, and when he flirted with or dated other people I HATED MY LIFE it felt so gross. I always felt like I needed to change, or that I wasnt as desirable, and I needed to try harder. He did end up liking me back, but nothing ever came of it. The euphoria of him liking me back lasted maybe a night, and then it was gone. And it left a pit in my stomach. The worst feeling in the world, feeling disgust toward a thing that had made me feel alive for the first time in my life.

But, nonetheless, in all that drama I discovered that I WOULD probably get jealous if I had a partner, just because of how much I overthink. And i think that's where i sort of differ from a lot of arospec people? See, i dont want a romantic relationship necessarily. I dont need to do all the sappy shit like buying flowers and calling each other babe, or even going on dates really. But I do want something adjacent to that. I dont hate the idea of touching, even though I sort of have a phobia to that, but I DO hate it if I think about it romantically. I love the idea of holding hands in this sort of nostalgic way, like how I used to with my parents when I was a kid. I dont mind the idea of someone playing with my hair the way people used to when it was long, like they admired it so much they had to run their fingers through it. Hugging doesnt sound so bad when it's done in that protective, grounded way. Like hugging someone after a long day, or early in the morning. Just standing there like that. Even kissing sounds okay sometimes, if I dont think about it too hard. I'm sure it feels good. I'm sure being that close, that intimate with someone, would make me feel good. A combination of being comfortable and still feeling that rush of emotion. That sounds like a dream. That sounds fake. It makes me sad to think I may never experience that.

But then, I can think about the same things in a romantic way and I immediately want to turn and run. Holding hands in the way couples hold hands is so weird. I've never held a boys hand before. When I hold my friends hands, it feels awkward. I can hold my father's hand, I guess, but his hands are so calloused that they barely feel like hands. When I hold my father's hand now, I feel almost nothing at all. Thinking of someone playing with my hair like, say, a husband would do for his wife, or vice versa, or wife for wife or husband for husband or partner for partner, any combination-- it feels wrong. It's too sweet. Like, sickly sweet. The way they smile up at each other. It just feels so empty. Like whatever they're feeling just doesnt exist for me. Theres a void there, I think, where that feeling is supposed to be in my head. Hugs and kisses dont feel right from the couples in the movies. I much prefer the ones between close friends that I WANT to be the main couple, i guess. Like, take stranger things for an example. I love steve and eddie, and if they hugged, even platonically, I think I'd lose my shit. I wouldnt care much for a romantic hug between steve and nancy, but I dont really feel much for the platonic ones between steve and robin either. So, for some reason I like this weird in between? But that's not the point. Back to the matter at hand.

All that stuff I mentioned before, about how I can like all this stuff in a weird, alterous way as opposed to platonic or romantic or familial, one thing stays constant: I dont want whoever's doing it to do the same with other people. I DO want to be Their Person, and I want them to be Mine. Not in a possessive way, that's weird, but yknow. I want to want to be around them. I want them to want to be around me, too. And I want to like each other the most.

Lots of aromantic people talk about how they dont understand why friendships arent held to the same standard as romantic relationships, and trust me, I have been there, but I definitely am not exempt from that sort of "ranking." I have people that claim we are best friends, or really close, but I just dont bond with them the same way they do to me. It doesnt click. I like them platonically, I like to be around them, but I'm not attracted to them. Not like I was to my "crush" in high school, or like I am to all the pretty boy characters i think about in my head, or even my best friends from elementary school. Nothing my friends and I do is special to us. We arent exclusive to each other. And to some people, that doesnt matter one bit, but not me. I guess I'm selfish, but man, I wanna be someone's favorite. I want someone to like me the most. Even though I dont know how to kiss and might not even want to, and my personalities not that big, and sometimes I dont have much to say at all, and sometimes more than anything I just need someone to make me feel like I'm not floating through life without making a connection at all.

But that's such a big job. I worry I'm not worth the work. I'm not sure I would be able to work that much for someone else, so it wouldn't be fair. It would be so imbalanced, like I was taking advantage of them or something. I can't do that.

Nonetheless, the best analogy I can think of is beds. Not having sex in beds, just literally sleeping in them. Some aro people want their own bed in their own house. Some want to share a house AND a bed, with one person or with a whole group. But me? I'd like to live with friends AND my person. The best friend, or the partner, or whatever they are to me. And I want my own bed, but if I ever have any troubles sleeping, or they do, I want each others rooms to be the first we go to. I want to love someone so much that I choose them to ground me every time. How amazing would that be? To not have each other, but still be connected. To have some in between, "other" sort of love that does is not just built on trust, but IS trust. Trust that you are wanted, you are welcome, and you are special. Being something more than friends, more than lovers. Helping each other be whole on their own. Knowing they love you not because you're friends, not because you're partners, not because you're family, not because of anything. They just do.

I do want love. I really, really do. I want love the way I love the ocean, and the way I love music. I want to be loved that way. The attraction to the beach that humans have had for centuries. The tendency to make tunes out of nothing, to hum just to hear the sounds. Even if the ocean is dangerous. Even if the song is off-key. I want love that is instinctual, that is unexplainable. I want love that has no reason. No words to explain it. I want the love that existed before we had the word for it. Before there were friends and lovers, there were just companions. Two people who chose each other. And they may have not been able to speak the word love, but I'm sure it was stronger than what we have now. I'm sure, if you sit still, you can still hear it.

[transenbyconfessions]

I'm just throwing it out to the wind. I don't like all the labels, even if I fall under them myself. I wish things were simpler, and people could just make peace with each other.

I'm transmasc. I think. I know I'm agender too, it makes me very happy knowing about that part of me. I use he/him but also don't care what people use for me unless they're close. Then he/him is strongly pushed. I feel at peace knowing I'm agender, but also kind of a boy. To simplify, I say I'm a trans man, even if it feels weird to specify.

I'm gay, but I can romantically love anyone non-binary or fem as long as I trust them enough. I have trauma with afab people- I have an easier time trusting cis men. The opposite of most people born afab, I know. I'm dating someone afab, while pining for and in love with a cis man. I'm polyamourous. To simplify I say I'm bi, but I really don't identify with that, and polyamourous.

I've gone through so much relationship trauma that the level of romantic attraction I have has been constrained, that I can only see myself loving one more person besides my partner for sure. Anyone else...Qpr. I fear thanks to trauma I've become greyromantic, or aro in some way. It makes me sad, because I have so much love in my heart. I don't say this, to anyone.

I'm asexual, but I'm sex positive. It fluctuates between being turned away from the idea of it, to really enjoying the idea of it. It frustrates (not aggressively) my partner how it fluctuates unpredictably. I, too, am frustrated how my entire opinion on having sex can change in so many directions a day. I find it easier for the idea of having sex with people I'm deeply emotionally bonded to, when I'm having a 'good sex day'. To simplify, I've said in the past that I'm demisexual. I no longer do, I just say asexual, because I figured myself out.

I'm Transmasc Agender, Gayflux-Arospec, Asexual.

I have a back and forth relationship with all these labels, and don't use them besides the simplified versions I said. They feel unnecessary. I guess I just needed to shout to a void and hope maybe my experience rings true for someone else who stumbles across it eventually.

Submitted March 29, 2023