#endogenic discourse

[sysmed-supreme]

Trauma makes systems. Full stop. This blog is for clinically recognized dissociative disorders, not roleplay, not spirituality, not "self-discovery." If you don’t have trauma, you don’t have DID or OSDD. This is not a safe space. It’s a reality check.

[endogenic-menace]

welcome to the end times

Oh great. Another syscourse blog. Just what this hellsite needed.

Guess what? I don't care. I'm here anyway, and I WILL be making it everyone's problem. The level of brainrot in this tag is actually UNBELIEVABLE. Like, are y'all even hearing yourselves? I've been lurking for too long, watching people say the most unhinged, self-contradictory garbage and somehow still get hyped up like they just dropped the world's hottest take. It's tragic, really.

So here's how this is gonna go. I talk, you listen. You're allowed to be wrong in the notes, but don't expect me to pretend you're making sense. If you're pressed about what I say? Good. Maybe you'll start thinking critically for once.

I will be discussing syscourse, tearing apart bad arguments, and generally being a menace. I do not care if you find my tone too mean. I am not here to coddle you. If that's a problem, go cry into your DNI banners.

Welcome to the discourse, hope you brought popcorn.

[frameacloud]

Plurality, multiplicity, and systems are not synonyms for DID. They are umbrellas that include DID as well as other disordered and non-disordered experiences of being more than one person or personality in one body over time.

[watcherwingedcat]

And don't get me even started on syscourse. Oh my fucking god. Regardless of what you say or think, regardless of medical terms, regardless of diagnosis... Why would you attack creatures (or others, in general) who are sharing their experiences and invalidate it because “ummm actually they are harming me because they are invalidating my experiences...". No they are not?

I've been blocking every anti endo I see in this app. I don't care anymore. Before, I tended to lean into a more neutral side. But no more. Why are you treating endo systems like that. What did they do to you. Why are you treating them like they are comiting a horrible horrible crime just because they say that they are plural. Plurality is not always disordered. It's sometimes because of neurodivergenties, trauma, or maybe something else entirely. We don't know! There's not enough research yet on that matter. DID and being plural is different. DID is a complex disorder, with more symptoms than just the alters part. Also, most of the folks I see they are aggressively antiendos are minors. I'm sorry but why are you saying: ENDOS DON'T FUCKING INTERACT OR I'LL KILL YOU, YOU ARE HORRIBLE AND ERASING MY EXPERIENCE AND MY TRAUMA

Like... What? First of all, you are a child. (I'm not saying that being a child is synonymous with being ignorant or anything, or that minors can't voice their opinions) (I'm ALSO not saying that everyone who attacks endo systems are minors). Second of all, inform yourself a bit please? Endos aren't evil. They're just... different from traumagenic systems. They formed headmates for reasons other than trauma. That's it. That's the big fuss. If you don't like it, the block button is right there. But trying to spill hate and the same arguments over and over is damaging to others. Think of how your words may affect someone else.

I'm tired of seeing anti endo discurse everywhere. I'm tired of seeing ENDOS DNI. Like they are monsters. What did they ever did to you. Most of them are just trying to live their lives. (Also, traumagenic systems seem to think that endos are "stealing" their spaces. Which, no). They just happen to be plural. Some of them aren't even claiming to have DID! And even if they did, why would you care, as a fellow plural, that a stranger on the internet, is self diagnosing themselves? Why would you claim they are attacking you?

[sysmed-supreme]

Your response is long-winded, but it boils down to the same circular argument that always comes up in this discourse: "Disorders are just normal experiences taken to an extreme, so really, we're all having the same kind of experience!" No, we're not.

You keep trying to blur the line between trauma-based dissociation and non-disordered experiences by reducing everything to broad generalities. Yes, dissociation exists on a spectrum. Yes, personality states shift in different contexts. None of that changes the fact that DID and OSDD are trauma-based conditions with distinct diagnostic criteria, not just "one end of the spectrum" of plurality. You can't flatten the experiences of people with dissociative disorders into a catch-all "plurality" umbrella just because some surface-level similarities exist. That is like saying schizophrenia and daydreaming are fundamentally the same because they both involve altered perception.

And as for harm? You are acting like language and perception do not shape real-world consequences. They do. When the public, medical professionals, and even therapists are inundated with the idea that plurality is just a fun, natural variation of human experience, it delegitimizes the reality of DID and OSDD. It creates more skepticism toward people who actually need treatment and resources. It contributes to the rise of people who conflate clinically significant dissociation with something they "manifested" through introspection.

I get that you want unity. But unity built on erasing fundamental distinctions is not solidarity, it is assimilation at the expense of those who cannot just "opt out" of their condition. We do not need to lump all experiences of identity variation under the same label to push for better treatment and understanding. What we do need is for people to stop treating a clinical disorder like just another way to exist.

If you want to call yourself plural, go ahead. But do not try to redefine what DID and OSDD actually are in the process.

creating an imaginary friend or plural part outside of trauma is not only possible but so completely normal. writers frequently discuss their characters gaining some form of autonomy. people talk about the "angel and devil on their shoulders." some people think of characters they like encouraging them throughout their day. taking those impulses further and making a fully autonomous personality inside your head is perfectly healthy, "valid," and normal :)

doing so is not "claiming" DID or OSDD, you don't have to pursue a diagnosis to have alters or headmates, and the sysmeds on here that make non-traumatic plurality out to be people faking DID are only driving more people to fake it in order to put labels and community on the experiences they're having (autonomous internal parts). the reason the fakeclaims push it is because they want to be part of a community that understands their experiences and has language to describe it, but feel driven out because they aren't diagnosed, or don't feel like a DID diagnosis is right for them; if you feel like that you can just be a tulpamancer, or endogenic, or whatever!

[shuffled-mind]

hi, i'm charlotte, this is my first post :) i want to share my system role flags with you all!

symptom holder flag alternative (and it's alternatives... hehe)

the colors are picked from the disability pride flag!

i've also made an autism symptom holder flag, for personal use!

the colors are picked from the autistic pride flag, and the teal hands represent both understimulation (blue) and overstimulation (green)

please no discourse, i don't have the mental capacity to engage in internet flame wars

that being said, anyone can use my flags and terms no matter if my stances align with yours. if you like it, feel free to use it!

[light-alexandria]

hello, system community!

i’m trying to find information/hear personal experiences of systemhood from others, if any of you would be so kind as to help me!

particularly, i would like to hear from those who identify as endogenic or otherwise non-trauma formed systems. of course, i would love to hear from trauma-formed systems as well! it’s just that i am one, and so that’s the community i have been most involved with & heard from already.

feel free to DM me anonymously if you don’t want to share publicly. i won’t post anything. my aim is to hear from others so that i can form my own opinions, figure out the right direction to go for independent research, and to simply understand others more.

thank you very much in advance, and i hope you all are having a wonderful day 💙

(please be mindful & respectful with what is said if you reply publicly. i am looking for open discussion, not arguments or hate.)

[the-eternalized-constellation]

Antis when a fandom ships two characters that are blood related.... "Proshippers ruin everything!!!"

No, that's a com/darkshipper. What you're seeing is com/darkshippers, not proshippers. Proshippers aren't the ones shipping two brothers... Com/darkshippers are. It doesn't matter if the labels overlap, what you are upset about is com/darkshipping.

Stop confusing the terms.

[historyinclusionist]

History Inclusionist

An "Inclusionist" who believes that identities which are 1) shown to be supported in the community's history 2) are harmless personal identities that don't pose harm to others are valid and should be included in their communities.

Overall:

"History Inclusionism" refers to being inclusive of personal identities based on the identity being:

A self affirmed personal identity (locatable only within a person's interaction with and relations to the world around you)

Historically shown to be included in an identity subculture (Such as in a notable number of personal accounts, poems, zines, books, or other media from a subculture)

Shown to be non harmful to other identities or persons (Such as in more than one professional study)

Examples: - Different studies over human history have concluded that being raised by gay parents doesn't cause inherent harm to children. Therefore, gay relationships are provably shown to be non harmful. They are included here. - Different self-reports, comics, zines, and other writings from the past 60 years mention male lesbians, bi lesbians, and lesbians in relationships with men. Therefore, it is historically shown to be included in lesbian culture, and is included here. - Studies, reports, and other examinations by professionals over the course of human history have come to the conclusion that minors in relationships with adults cannot properly consent and are harmed by those "relationships." Therefore, personal identities that try to justify these "relationships" are not included here.

"Personal Identity"?

"Personal Identity" is a purposefully broad term meant to apply to most self-affirmed forms of identification (plurality status, orientation, gender, etc).

Being a History Inclusionist means that you are in complete support of the following personal identities:

Plurality which does not attribute its origins to trauma

Lesbians who are also male / Gay men who are also female

Lesbians who are also mspec (bi, pan, poly, etc) / Gay men who are also mspec

Transgender / nonbinary people who don't experience dysphoria or only feel euphoria

Nonbinary genders, including xenogenders / nonbinary genders that are "atypical" (based on fictional characters, highly specific, based on animals, etc)

"Atypical" relationship formats such as polyamorous relationships, relationship anarchy, kink-focused relationships, etc (Or generally any other form of relationship between two or more consenting people that would not fall under anything on the list below this)

Gender presentations which conflict with and/or defy the expected norm (Women who use he/him pronouns, men who present feminine, etc)

Being a History Inclusionist means that you absolutely do not tolerate or support the following:

Acting on or encouraging attraction to children as an adult (Ped*philia)

Acting on, encouraging attraction to, or associating positive feelings with the attraction to one's family members (Inc*st)

Acting on or encouraging attraction to, or associating positive feelings with the attraction to animals (Z*ophilia)

TransID/TransX communities, the idea that someone can transition into or identify as an age, disorder, or condition they physically are not or do not have (transrace/diarace/trace, transabled/transdisorder/'transplural'/transautistic, and so on)

Arguing with other members of the LGBT community over who is allowed to use derogatory words (Q-eer, f-ggot, d-ke, and so on)

Tagging: @mogai-sunflowers @neopronouns @radiomogai

If you're interested in reading more about why I consider XYZ a good faith thing and why I don't consider XYZ the same, I made a Carrd! 📖🏳️‍🌈

[drag-me-kicking-and-screaming]

clears throat ahem. ahem ahem. IF YOU ARE ANTI ENDO. STOP. FUCKING. USING. THE. TERM. ALTERHUMAN. AND. ALTERHUMAN. TAGS.

THIS IS /SRS.

Pulls down whiteboard with red strings and frantic push pinned images. Alterhuman was coined with endogenic systems in mind. ALL origins of plurality are included in the definition of Alterhuman (By this I mean nonhuman alters being allowed to consider themselves alterhuman if they wish) so if you're going to be an ALTERHUMAN and be VICIOUSLY anti-endo ESPECIALLY when you're a singlet than stop. fucking using the term. it wasn't made for you hateful bigots. There are other terms for you. Stop bullying endogenic systems who are using terms made for them.

Source (this is the coining post for the term alterhuman. It specifically mentions plural, median, and walk in identities; if you don't believe me, here's a link to the coiner of alterhuman being explicitly pro endo; and here's a link to the coiner saying this account belongs to them.)

[sysmed-supreme]

Alright, listen up. I have been lurking in the #syscourse tag for way too long, and it is finally time to bring some reality to this mess. You can call me sysmed-supreme, because let’s be real, someone has to hold the line.

Here is the deal: if your system did not form from trauma, why are you even here? DID and OSDD are not identities, aesthetics, or fun little social groups. They are dissociative disorders, as in medically recognized, clinically diagnosed, and actually studied. This is not a playground. If you do not have trauma, you do not have DID or OSDD. If you do not have DID or OSDD, you are not a system. Period.

Yeah, I am gatekeeping. Because someone has to. If there is no gate, this entire conversation turns into a free-for-all roleplay server, and I refuse to watch that happen.

Anyway, I am here now. This blog is officially sysmed territory. Expect rants, receipts, and people losing their minds in the notes. If you are actually here to discuss things like an adult, stick around. Otherwise? Do not waste my time.

[dhddmods]

In case anyone isn't aware, status-quo-hater has said some exorsexist things, pluralphobic things, and has a double standard for contradictory labels & separating transness from sex/AGAB.

This is a post meant to make its followers aware of whether or not their identities are respected, and aware of its harmful stances.

We do not encourage harassment of this individual.

It has yet to address its harmful posts, which bothers us greatly. It needs to make it known whether it has changed its views, or if it is going to double down on its harmful standpoints.

Status-quo-hater has, in this post and this post:

1.

-Said that to identify as a trans woman, you have to have "transitioned into womanhood" - while simultaneously saying that mulleripathian non-binary people cannot identify as trans women (thus equating non-binary womanhood to binary womanhood, when they are separate experiences.) This directly harms mulleripathian non-binary women (ie; demigirls, girlfluxes, multigender women, etc), as it is treating them as either a cisgender woman (which is malgendering by only acknowledging their womanhood) or genderless/gender neutral (which is misgendering by ignoring their womanhood), and implies that they have no social or physical transition towards womanhood necessary. That is untrue. Mulleripathian non-binary women do have to transition towards womanhood - it's just a different type of womanhood than what was previously established. This falls into the same narrative as calling them "basically cis." It also separates wolffipathian non-binary women from mulleripathian non-binary women, by allowing wolffipathian non-binary women to use the trans women label, but not the mulleripathian ones. This is hypocritical considering it has said in the past that it doesn't think trans people should be defined by their assigned gender/sex.

2.

-Said that mulleripathian trans women are misusing the "trans women" label, which completely ignores re-transitioning women (ie; "detrans" mulleripathians, who are re-transitioning into womanhood.) Is their transition back into womanhood not a transition? This also ignores interrupted mulleripathians who wish to transition towards femininity after experiencing androgenizing effects from non-intersex atypical experiences (ie; mulleripathians who had a tumor that produced high levels of androgens, making them non-intersex but also giving them androgenized traits.)

3.

-Told plurals how to identify their genders, as a singlet. It has no right to input on this whatsoever, and should leave that to the plurals within its community. (We swear, no matter how plurals identify their genders, singlets will always argue and never be satisfied.) If you wanna read about our sysmate Weni's experience with this, you can see our reblog of its post here.

4.

-Blatantly stated that it does not support coffeebean transmascs & honeybee transfems.

[the-fallen-collective]

emails are not shown, everything is put in a way where you can provide reasoning (preferred but not required) and putting your tumblr user is optional

This is the one time where our dni does not apply because we would like responses from a lot of people

If you see this, it’d be greatly appreciated if you could take it and reblog it /nf

This is really just an experiment we’re doing ourselves to see other’s views and opinions (also out of boredom. Boredom creates curiosity)

(So sorry for the cross tagging but is it cross tagging if it applies?)

We do not agree with everything mentioned in the form. We actually disagree with a lot of it or have differing/complicated opinions from different alters

[thesleepysystem]

while we are a traumagenic did system ourselves, we are pro-endo, and i (samuel) wanted to say to any anti-endo's reading this or following us,

ITS IS FUCKED UP TO DENY A BEINGS EXISTENCE BECAUSE YOU ARE CAUGHT UP ON HOW THEY CAME INTO EXISTENCE.

[watcherwingedcat]

I have not used discord in ages, but some days ago I entered just to see what was up and if I could talk to someone... I realized, by looking carefully at the different servers I was in, how much toxicity was in there. So I said: I don't want to deal with that. And I. Didn't. I left.

I just left some (most) of the servers I was in for being super toxic to anyone who had a different opinion on themes like physical nonhumanity, endo and traumagenic systems, p-shifting and other "controversial" topics on the alterhuman communities. I get that most mods from those servers were minors, and they want to talk to others whose opinions are similar to theirs, but one thing is being a minor and another is attacking people for having different opinions as you. If they aren't harming anyone, leave them alone.

I just don't get all the conflict in the nonhuman community. Has anyone noticed this shift recently? Maybe it's because only recently I've poked around with the plural community, and that one is, let's be honest here, toxic af, but I'm seeing it more and more here in tumblr. I wonder why this is.

[sagegreenyaps]

Hey, I get that you don't like that person's stance, but they don't deserve to die or to relive their own trauma because of it. Don't dehumanize your enemies.

If you're at the point where the most substantial thing you could say to somebody is a threat, just silently wish the best for them.

Wish that someday they'll stop being an enemy. Wish for character growth.

(Note: This is not asking you to "fix them." That's not your job, and helping people with the mindset of "fixing them" is not actually that helpful. If they ask for civil discussion-- and are genuine-- then it's your choice whether you permit it or not, but don't try to force your point without listening to them. Don't "fix them." It very likely is not going to work, and will very likely instead give them a bad/worse taste in their mouth about you and what you represent. Sometimes it is best to leave people be, in all honesty. You don't have to save the world, doing what you can is perfectly acceptable. Promoting good-will and stability in your own space is just as-- if not more-- important as stepping outside of said space.)