#is how Dick Grayson should fight in the batman family of comics

[mainalias]

thinking about compiling screenshots of golden/silver age batman exclusively calling dick his ward to combat the allegations that it was “initially a father-child relationship”

[i-yap]

Batboys+bruce x y/n thoughts

Now "the man" is dick grayson. Batman literally said Nightwing is what Batman should have been. He is kind he is understanding he is caring and patient and honestly if you are a little broken, u are assigned to dick . He is wanted by everyone, this is the guy you take home. this is the man who buys you flowers and serenades you and always keeps your boundaries in mind. this is the man that can read you like an open book. that sees the real you no matter how hard you try to hide. Not saying he doesn't have issues, he sucks at communication and commitment. he has a saviours complex. But with the right person, it just fades away and all there is left is the perfect man to marry and have kids and save the world. - aka the married couple

BUT jason is "the man for a woman" . He practically worships the ground you walk on( he lowkey does , like if you're away from the house he'll look at the apartment floor and be like...wheeererrr isss myyyy y/nnnn ) He will leave everything behind for you, will kill everyone no questions asked. Its really heavy and passionate and a little crazy but that's jason for you . It can be a lot for someone who needs personal space or has commitment issues or issues opening up. You got to be really kind, patient and loving when it comes to jason. Very good at reading people and a giver. - aka morticia and gomez

AND Bruce , that dude has a lot of responsibilities. He has no time, he is so busy, he is so tired, he cant be with someone seriously...but why does he want you so bad. You'll have to be strong and patient and forgiving and kind. You will have to force your way into his life and pull him away from all the madness. you are the golden saviour that drags him away from the hell he has been sinking into. pulls him away, encourages him to retire and shows him what a normal life and sleep schedule looks like. After all he has done and given, he deserves to retire with the woman he loves. In many comics, bruce becomes evil from this long life of crime fighting and paranoia or is killed . You save him, teach him that he can too have everything he tries to give other people. A family, peace and love- aka the saving grace

NOW Tim isnt like that at all He is free in all ways the other batboys are not. Dick is so tied down with his superhero responsibilities and jason is so needy and a little demanding to be with . Bruce is tired and not as full of energy . But you can be a kid with tim. there is spontaneity , there is adventure, there is freedom and rebellion and expression of self. The actual teenage love, lets go for a drive and end up in a bull riding contest tim wins and then shut down that ring so no bull is every hurt again. Teeths turning blue from that slushie that just gave him freezebrain. - aka teenage dirtbags

[celaenaeiln]

so my friend, at 12 am, called me just to say that dick grayson is the only one in his family that bruce truly views as an equal and then hung up. what. what do i do.

well, call them back and tell 'em they're right 😂😂😂

I started cackling so hard I began wheezinggg oh my god that's hilarious!!!

But maybe for a more reasonable time to talk about this concept after you wake/have woken up from your dick grayson cameo dreams, I'll drop some comic panels

Dick is privy to all of Bruce because of the way Bruce treats him like an equal

He lets Dick in on secrets that he doesn't tell any of the others

I've made a post before on how Clark views Dick as his equal just as Bruce views Dick as his equal.

I'm going to drop the Bruce segment here:

When Bruce was gone the only person he entrusted any information to was Dick. He left a personalized - voice activated - message for Dick and only him that lists his worries, faults, and regrets.

"The girl, Cassandra Cain... I told her to give this file to you should I fall tonight."

"She's my greatest sin, Dick. My deepest regret. Stay alive, and please. Try to forgive me--"

He lists his insecurities to Dick as friend, as an equal.

Of everyone Bruce left behind, the only person Bruce left a message for was Dick. He relies on him unconditionally to take over because Bruce doesn't seem him as a kid like he does with the other - don't get me wrong, he still values and knows just how brilliant the rest of his children are - but he sees Dick as an equal in terms of intelligence, abilities, and leadership. Actually -

Bruce puts Dick on a pedestal.

He views Dick as the golden standard of everything he's working toward.

The reason I think Bruce is so harsh on Dick in regards to training is he doesn't see him as a kid that needs protection, he seems him equal to himself.

Time and time again he sends Dick on solo missions because of the faith he has in Dick's abilities and intelligence

In another comic there's an Arkham breakout and Bruce just. He just sends sends Dick on a solo mission to contain the entirety of Arkham and the villains inside by himself.

And Dick does. Effortlessly.

The fight for Spyral

"I know the other heroes. I know them all. I'd have them do it, but they can't. They'd fight, but eventually they'd give up, they'd give in."

We all know that Bruce despises himself when he fails at something. He thinks he's the best in the world and struggles to cope with the idea that he failed. As such, Bruce views Dick as an extension of himself. Unlike with the kids where he acknowledges their differences and treats them like children, Dick and Bruce are so intertwined that Bruce considers Dick as the "good part" of himself while Bruce is the "bad part".

He gets the angriest at Dick during times where Dick disagrees with him because he believes that Dick should understood what he's going through and what he believes in. For his part, Dick is always on Bruce's side and acts like Bruce's leash. He'll let Bruce do anything he wants as long as it's within the limits of acceptable behavior. Once Batman crosses those limits, Dick fights with him to bring him back.

As such, Bruce doesn't differentiate himself with Dick. He is the best and as a result so is Dick. Except in his mind Dick is better than him in every way possible and he took the steps to ensure it through training.

One of the reasons people in the comics call Dick the Golden Child is because he's the living embodiment of everything Bruce strived to create. It's not because he follows his orders religiously or anything. No, Dick just gives Bruce a longer leash than most.

In the Spyral fight I think he hits Dick because he is in part frustrated with himself. Imagine seeing someone you have unconditional faith in because you know they're capable of the very same things as you and can even surpass you fall to a threat. Doesn't that mean you would've fallen too? Is their failure just as much yours if you see yourself as a god? But how can a god-like being fall?

Their relationship is complicated because while Bruce sees Dick as his own person, he also sees him as the reflection of his success.

That's why Bruce is harsher on Dick than the rest of the kids. That's why Bruce makes Dick his right hand man. That's why Bruce shares his sorrows, fears, and vulnerabilities to Dick.

The way they interact, they view each other as father and son but with all the roles and responsibilities as partners.

Dick's compartmentalization and the way he mothers Bruce and Bruce allows it? He doesn't let anyone do that. I feel like on some level he subconsciously expects Dick to take care of him. As someone he can turn to with his worst and darkest sides and still be loved and appreciated and told everything will be alright. It's not a burden he places on the rest of his kids. Which is why Dick's relationship with Bruce straddles the line between son and guardian with him playing both roles and Bruce reacting/ forcing him to react that way.

Also

"Robin fuctions as support."

"Robin wasn't your idea, Bruce! It was mine! I sat in your cave and I watched you and I learned-- and when you needed my help I was there!"

"I'm not your employee, I'm not your son. I'm your partner."

One thing that differentiates Dick's robin from the other robins is that while the other Robins were worried about meeting Bruce's expectation, Dick was more worried about Bruce not seeing him as an equal. He ran away from home because he was mad that Bruce was becoming more controlling and not at all like how they used to be - partners.

There's a reason Dick is the only one Bruce views as his equal. It's because the experiences they've shared have woven them so tightly together that Bruce considers Dick his better half and pillar of strength. If he falls back, he can rely on Dick to take over. Emotionally and physically.

Still laughing at your friend lol. Wild

[souurcitrus]

Batfamily Time-line

Decide to do a quick timeline for Batman's core family, since it seems like the Comics writers don't know how old the characters should be, and with the stories being due between New Earth and Prime Earth, things get even more confusing.

I don't really like the New 52 and most reboots irritate me, so I made this timeline based on old Batman stories. Anot all information are correct, and some is more speculation based on the Comics.

1939 -

• August 16th - Alfred Pennyworth was born.

• (His age is never specified in any type of media, but it seems like he was at least on his 30s when he became Bruce's guardian).

1962 -

• Bruce Wayne's birthday is officially February 19th (though I don't remember when the exactly year).

1970 -

• One night, while returning from the Monarch Theatre, the Wayne family was approached by the criminal, Joe Chill, who murdered Thomas and Martha and fled.

• Bruce (age 8) was left in Alfred Pennyworth's care (age 31).

1971 -

• January 26 - Kate Kane, Bruce Wayne's cousin, is born.

1973 -

• At age 14, Bruce Wayne's eyes were opened to the level of crime in Gotham and he was determined to do something about it, swearing to rid the city of the evil that had taken his parents' lives.

• He left Gotham City and spent his youth traveling the world, training himself to intellectual and physical perfection and learning a variety of crime-fighting skills, including chemistry, criminology, forensics, martial arts, gymnastics, disguise and escape artistry.

1975 -

• September 23 - Barbara Gordon is born.

1978 -

• March 20 - Richard "Dick" Grayson, son of John and Mary Grayson, two acrobats from The Haley Circus.

1984 -

• (Batman: Year One, Batman #404-407)

• Bruce Wayne (22) returned to Gotham and began acting as a vigilante, taking on the title of Batman.

• Bruce named Lucius Fox president of Wayne Enterprises and brought him, Alfred Pennyworth (45) and Leslie Tompkins their plans.

• Along with James Gordon, Sarah Essen and Harvey Bullock, Batman faces corruption and crime in Gotham.

• August 16 - Jason Todd was born.

• (Catwoman: Her Sister’s Keeper)

• Selina Kyle was inspired to become a costumed thief when she sees Batman in action and becomes Catwoman.

• (Batman: Shaman, Legends of the Dark Knight #1-5)

• That same year, other rogues appeared, before the Joker even existed: Man-Bat, Scarecrow, Poison Ivy and Riddler.

1985 -

• (Batman: Year Two, Detective Comics #575-578)

• Batman inspired the vigilante movement, leading to the arrival of the likes of Superman, Flash, Wonder Woman, Black Canary and his old friend Oliver Queen as Green Arrow.

• January 26 - Cassandra Cain, daughter of Lady Shiva and David Cain, is born.

• (Batman: The Man Who Laughs, Detective Comics #784-786)

• The first appearance of the Joker.

• (Batman: The Long Halloween #1-12)

• Batman, James Gordon and Harvey Dent worked together to bring down the organized crime syndicates led by Carmine Falcone and Sal Maroni.

• They also had to investigate a serial killer named Holiday that had been killing mafiosos. Gotham's new breed of criminals was replacing the traditional gangsters.

• This was the first time Batman met Selina Kyle dressed as Catwoman.

• After a long investigation, Maroni was brought to a trial, during which he threw it at Dent's face, leaving him scarred. Later, Harvey reappeared calling himself Two-Face and shot Falcone twice in the head.

• He was accused of betraying the things he believed in and arrested.

1986 -

• (Superman, vol 1 #76; Superman/Batman annual, #1)

• Superman and Batman meet for the first time, as Superman came to Gotham and they work together tracking the dangerous psychopath Magpie. They both gained respect for each other, although they doubted, they would ever work together again

• July 19 - Timothy Drake is born.

• (Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman: Trinity)

• Clark later introduced Bruce to Wonder Woman while chasing "The Purge" led by Ra's al Ghul.

• Already a hero to Gotham, Batman (26) became a hero to the world when he and six other heroes fought Brainiac's invasion and formed the Justice League of America.

• August 11 - Stephanie Brown is born.

1987 -

• (Detective comics, vol 1 #37 / Robin Annual #4 1995)

• July 15 - Bruce (27) watched the Flying Graysons perform an acrobatic act and continued to watch as they plummeted to their deaths due to the act being sabotaged by Tony Zucco, leaving only his orphaned son, Richard "Dick" Grayson (9).

• Upon learning that Dick had no living relatives, Bruce saw himself in Dick and adopted him. Dick discovered the Batcave and convinced Bruce to train him to be a vigilante.

• (Alfred's age: 48)

1988 -

• (Robin Annual #4)

• Due to his acrobatic skills, Dick Grayson (10) already had a foundation to build on and so Gotham's Dynamic Duo was born with the first appearance of Batman and Robin, beginning the era of young heroes.

• Barbara Gordon (13) becomes an orphan after her parents tragically die in a car accident. Her uncle, Jim Gordon, adopted her and took her to live with him and his wife Sarah in Gotham City.

• November 18 - Harper Row is born.

• (Alfred's age: 49; Bruce's: 28)

1991 -

• (Detective Comics, vol 1 #359, 1967; Batgirl: Year One, 2003)

• Barbara Gordon (16) debuts in an improvised costume as 'Batgirl' and is nearly killed. Eventually she is accepted by Batman and joins the "Bat Family", being Bruce's new apprentice.

• Duke Thomas is born. (Couldn't find his birthday)

• (Alfred: 52; Bruce: 29; Dick: 13)

1994 -

• (The brave and the bold, vol 1 #54-60; Teen Titans vol 1 #53; Teen Titans: Year One)

• The formation of the Teen Titans happened mainly due to the kids' mentors making them feel inferior, which they quickly realized was not right about them.

• Dick Grayson (16), along with Wally West / Kid Flash and Garth / Aqualad teamed up; later, Donna Troy / Wonder Girl (13/14) joined the team along with Roy Harper / Speedy (14).

• Together, they cured the heroes of their mind control; later, their mentors (Batman, Flash, Aquaman and Wonder Woman) supported the idea of ​​the teenagers becoming a heroic group, the Teen Titans!.

• (Alfred: 55; Bruce: 32, Barbara: 19)

1996 -

• When Jason Todd was a child, he lived in a very poor neighborhood with his father Willis and his stepmother Catherine. As his wife was suffering from an illness, Willis became a criminal and started working for Two Faces to pay for her treatment.

• Willis was killed in a shootout after betraying his boss and Jason was left to care for his mother alone, resorting to also getting involved in crime to get money.

• (Teen Titans vol 1 #53)

• The Teen Titans split up and follow different paths in their careers

• Dick divides his time between working with the Titans in New York and working with Batman in Gotham.

• (Batman and the Outsiders, vol 1, 1983)

• Batman (37) leaves the Justice League and forms the Outsiders.

• (Batman and the outsider's, #32; Justice League, vol 1, 1987)

• Batman leaves the Outsiders and joins the New Justice League.

• (Alfred: 57; Bruce: 34; Barbara: 21)

1997 -

• Bruce Wayne (35) begins to notice that Dick is growing up and moving around, living between New York and Gotham. Afraid of being left alone, he fires Dick.

• (Detective Comics vol 1 #495)

• Dick Grayson (19) goes to Hudson University and leaves after the first semester in July.

• Meanwhile, Jason Todd (13) cared for his mother Catherine until her last breath.

• After his death, legally an orphan, Jason lived in his father's apartment in an abandoned building in Crime Alley, where he turned to crime out of necessity. Jason has become highly skilled at stealing tires from vehicles.

• (Batman #408-409, 1987)

• Jason tried to steal the Batmobile's tires, but was caught by Batman, who decided to take Jason in and began training him to be the new Robin.

• Six months after Dick left Gotham, Jason's training was complete and he stepped in as the new Boy Wonder.

• (New Titans, vol 1, 1980)

• Dick Grayson (19) then formed the new Teen Titans with Raven, Wally West/Kid Flash, Donna Troy/Wonder Girl, Koriand’r/Starfire, Victor Stone/Cyborg, and Garfied Logan/Beast Boy.

• (Nightwing: Year One, #101-106)

• However, his identity as Robin no longer suited him and he soon adopted a new identity: Nightwing.

• (Alfred: 58; Bruce: 35; Barbara: 22)

1998 -

• Bruce (36) leaves another Justice League.

• Barbara (23) starts working in a library and has much less time to be Batgirl.

• (Batman: The Cult #1-4)

• (Batman: The Caped Crusader Vol. 1, Batman #417-430 and Batman Annual #12)

• Some Batman stories with Jason (14) as Robin, this collection does not include "death in the family ".

• (Alfred: 59; Dick: 20)

1999 -

• (The killing joke; Batman Chronicles #5; Oracle: Year One)

• At some point, Barbara Gordon (24) is attacked by the Joker.

• The criminal broke into her apartment and shot her, leaving her paralyzed, in an attempt to drive her father, Jim Gordon, crazy and prove that anyone can be as crazy as him if they have just one bad day.

• As he grew older, Jason Todd proved to be a challenge for Bruce (37), despite being skilled crime fighter, he was very rebellious and often disobeyed Batman.

• (August)

• Jason turns fifteen years old.

• (Batman #425-429, A death in the family)

• Batman decided to remove Jason from his duties as Robin to allow him to grieve the death of his parents.

• Jason discovered that the woman he knew as his mother was his stepmother, so he decided to find his biological mother.

• He found her, Sheila Haywood, an aid worker in Ethiopia. She proved to be the right person and she and Jason had an emotional reunion.

• However, unbeknownst to Batman and Robin, Sheila used to run illegal operations in Gotham and was recently blackmailed by the Joker, to whom she handed over her own son (now in his Robin costume).

• The clown brutally beat him with a crowbar. Robin was soon unconscious in a pool of blood. The Joker then left him and Sheila in the warehouse with a time bomb.

• Batman arrived too late to save them as he was stopping the Joker's venom from reaching the city and they died from their injuries.

• Batman pulled Jason's body from the rubble and took him to Gotham City, before he called Wayne Manor to deliver the news.

• (New Titans vol 1 #55, 1989)

• Dick (21) received the news too and returned to Gotham to look after Alfred and Bruce.

• (Suicide Squad vol 1 #23-28, 1989-1990)

• A mysterious Hacker, called Oracle, starts working with the Suicide Squad.

• (Batman: A lonely place of dying, Batman #426-429, #440-442, and New Titans #60-61).

• Some time later, Timothy Drake (13) discovers the secret identities of the Wayne family and tries to join them. He uses Jason's old costume to save Dick (21) and Bruce (37).

• Orphaned by organized crime, Tim was placed in the care of Bruce Wayne. Tim asked his new caretaker to allow him to train as the third Robin, but Bruce refused due to the fact that he was still grieving the loss of Jason Todd.

• Discovering the breadth of Tim's intellect and deductive genius, Alfred opposed Bruce and began training Tim in secret.

• (Detective Comics #618-621; Batman #480-481)

• Tim's mother is murdered and his father is left in a coma, from which he eventually recovers.

• (Robin: A Hero Reborn, Batman #455-457 and Robin #1-5)

• Tim Drake's first missions as Robin, where he heads to France to study specialized fighting techniques under an old master.

2000 -

• (Batman: Birth of the Demon)

• Bruce discovers the origin of Ra's Al Ghul.

• Helena Bertinelli became Huntress and also began fighting crime in Gotham.

• (Detective Comics vol 1 #647-649, 1992)

• Bruce hears about a young girl named Spoiler causing trouble around town.

• Stephanie Brown (14) wanted to anger her father and began following in Batman's footsteps.

• The mercenary Bane discovered that the effects of Venom increased his physical strength. He arrived in Gotham with the aim of defeating Batman, who he thought owned the city.

• (Batman: Sword of Azrael)

• Bruce met Jean-Paul Valley (18), a student who was being controlled to become the dangerous vigilante Azrael, and then took him in as his new protégé.

• (Robin III, 1992)

• Tim start dating Ariana Dzerchenko.

• (Batman: Knightfall)

• Bane invades the mansion when everyone is away and, being extremely tired, Bruce is unable to face him. Bane breaks his back with one blow and takes control of the city.

• Out of options, Bruce gives Jean-Paul Valley the mantle of Batman.

• (Robin vol 2 #3-5, 1994)

• Spoiler also joins them and gets closer to Tim.

• Bruce, still with a broken back, travels across Europe on a healing mission with Dr. Kinsolving. Alfred despairs at how little he is taking care of himself and resigns in protest.

• Meanwhile, Dick and Kory's relationship becomes worse. They almost get married, but decide to separate and the Teen Titans are disbanded.

• In the months that passed, however, Jean became an extremely cruel and aggressive Batman, distancing himself from Robin and going against Bruce's request.

• He even manages to defeat Bane and tries to break his back, but Robin stops him.

• (Batman: Knightfall) comes to an end. (According to the comics, this arc last at least 6 months)

• Before more damage was done, Bruce recovered and realizing the mistake he made, faced Jean and returned to being Batman in the conclusion KNIGHT ’END.

• (Batman: Prodigal)

• Bruce decides he wants to go on vacation and Dick becomes Batman, with Robin following him.

• Barbara Gordon (25) finally returns to work with her family, revealing herself to be the mysterious Hacker, Oracle.

• At this time, Cheshire became more distant from Bruce after Alfred moved to London and became more busy with the search for Ace and the others from Royal Flush.

• (Nightwing: Alfred's return)

• Dick (22) goes to London to try to convince Alfred to return to Gotham.

• (Batman: Contagion; Batman: Legacy)

• A plague spreads across the city and Batman, Azrael and Gordon try to find a cure. Robin meets Catwoman and reluctantly joins her to also find the cure on a super long journey.

• Nightwing and Huntress deal with rioters in Gotham, and Tim becomes infected when a sick looter spits in his face.

• (Alfred: 61; Dick: 22; Barbara: 25; Bruce: 38; Tim: 14; Stephanie: 14; Jean Paul: 18)

2001 -

• Batman (39) and Azrael (19) go out again in search of a cure.

• Gordon and Mayor Grange fight to keep the city from panicking.

• Batman is forced to leave the city and reluctantly puts Huntress in charge. Helena interrupts a Penguin's plot to cause chaos.

• Batman and Robin (14) travel with Nightwing (23) to the desert and discover that the person behind the virus was the "Immortal" who is revealed to be Ra's al Ghul, who plans to exterminate 90% of humanity so he can dominate the world. world.

• Batman eliminates the virus by blowing up the Aventine Casino.

• Vaccines are distributed and Gotham is saved. Despite Wayne Enterprises exhausting their resources in the relief effort, Bruce is shocked to see the large number of dead bodies.

• Batman, Nightwing, Huntress, and Robin feel guilty for the lives they couldn't save, but Alfred reminds them that every citizen of Gotham would be dead if it weren't for their efforts.

• (Nightwing vol 2)

• On March 20th, Dick turns 23 and moves to Blüdhaven.

• (Black Canary/Oracle: Birds of Prey, 1996)

• Barbara (26) begins working with Black Canary, eventually forming the Birds of Prey.

• Dick and Helena form a romantic relationship in (Nightwing/Huntress).

• (Robin Plus Impulse; World's Finest Three (Superboy/Robin); Young Justice: The Secret)

• Tim meets Superboy and Bart Allen / Impulse and then saves a mysterious girl named Secret.

• (Justice League of America: World without growth; Young Justice vol 1)

• They form Young Justice.

• (Batman: Cataclysm)

• There is a huge earthquake that passes through Gotham City, destroying many buildings and tearing up the foundations. With the chaos caused by the earthquake, many criminals are released, the city is completely isolated from the rest of the world.

• (Robin vol 2 #57, 1998)

• At some point, Tim breaks up with his girlfriend Ariana to be with Stephanie, who realizes she is pregnant, so tosses the mantle of vigilante aside for a while.

• (Batman: Aftershocks)

• In the weeks that pass, Gotham tries to recover. However, Bruce's efforts to help the city are futile when the world decides to turn its back on Gotham.

• (JLA/Titans #1-3; Titans vol 1)

• Dick returns with the Teen Titans.

2002 -

• (Batman: No man’s land)

• After the US government's declaration, Gotham City became a No Man's Land, which effectively quarantined the island. Bridges were destroyed and any other means of entry or exit were guarded by the Army.

• Although the Justice League did not assist in the quarantine for ethical reasons, they were so busy preventing outside forces from conquering the city that the internal situation was left to Batman and his allies.

• According to Barbara Gordon (27), it has been 93 days since the quarantine began and "Gotham is still dead."

• Batman disappeared all this time, and when he returned to the city to reconquer it, he saw that the criminals had already taken over.

• During this arc, Bruce reclaims the city, meets Cassandra Cain (17), daughter of David Cain, a former mentor, Barbara hands over her Batgirl mantle to Cassandra, Lex Luther hires Bane to destroy Gotham's gallery, so he can take control of the city, and James Gordon's wife is killed by the Joker.

• (Alfred: 63; Dick: 24; Barbara: 27; Bruce: 40; Tim: 16; Stephanie: 16; Jean Paul: 20; Cassandra: 17)

2003 -

• Eventually, thanks in large part to the financial and political machinations of Lex Luthor, Gotham City was liberated and rebuilt, and became part of the United States again.

• (Batman: Evolution; Batman: Turning Points; Batman: Officer Down)

• Ten weeks after No Man's Land ended, Commissioner Gordon is shot and retires.

• Alfred (64) goes with Tim (17) when he starts studying and isn't talking to Bruce.

• (Batman & Huntress: A Cry For Blood)

• Helena Bertinelli is being accused of murder and, while avoiding the GCPD and the Bat-Family, she revisits her childhood with The Question in hopes of trying to uncover the true culprit.

• (JLA: Tower of Babel)

• Ra's Al Ghul steals Batman's plans to defeat the Justice League of America.

• Dick (25) goes to the police academy. He and Barbara (28) start dating.

• Tarantula debuts as a vigilante (ew)

• (Batgirl vol 1 #3-6, 2000)

• Cassandra (18) continued as Batgirl moved into Barbara's Clock Tower.

• (Robin vol 2 #87; Batgirl vol 1 #20)

• Bruce tells Stephanie (17) Tim's identity and begins to train her.

• Jean-Paul (21) has established a base of operations near Gotham.

• (Gotham Knights #17, #20-21)

• Bruce (41) finally adopts Dick (25) as his son.

• (Bruce Wayne: Murderer? / Bruce Wayne: Fugitive / Consequences)

• When Vesper Fairchild is found dead at Wayne Manor and Bruce is imprisoned at Blackgate with Sasha Bordeaux, the other members of the bat family try to help break the case.

• However, Bruce has had enough and escapes from prison announcing his intention to do away with Bruce Wayne's identity, and exist solely as Batman.

• Some members of the Family continue to doubt Bruce's innocence in Fairchild's murder, as it appears he has truly crossed the line this time.

• They undergo an extensive investigation as Bruce struggles with identity complications from fighting crime on the streets.

• Eventually, they discover that Vesper's real killer was the ever-devious David Cain, who was hired by then-President Lex Luthor to destroy Bruce.

• (Batman: Broken City, Batman #620-625)

• Batman embarks on a journey of self-discovery that forces him to reflect on the life he has led and the choices he has made while hunting the killer of a young boy's parents.

• (Azrael: Agent of the Bat, vol 1 #100)

• Azrael (21) ended up being killed in a fight with his two biggest enemies, Biis and Scratch, after an attempt to frame Azrael for various crimes. Azrael was hit in his armor and fell from a balcony.

• Although his costume was recovered, his corpse was not.

• (Batman: Hush)

• It's a hell of a mystery that lasts at least a whole week or more. Jason is not here, it's fucking Clayface.

• (Arkham Asylum: Living Hell)

• (Batman: Tabula Rasa / Veritas Liberat)

• Bane (41) discovers that Thomas Wayne was close to his mother before his death and goes to Gotham, demanding that he and Bruce take a DNA test. He stays at Wayne Manor for a while, and there he and Batman fight crime together, with Bruce trying to convince him to be less aggressive.

• When the DNA test arrives, it becomes clear that he and Bruce are not related, he is devastated and lost.

• Some time later, Bane meets his father, the King Cobra, Sir Dorrance, but they do not get along and Bane, who has developed a small respect for Batman, protects Bruce from being shot and almost dies, but Bruce throws him in the Lazarus Pit.

• Bruce lets him leave Gotham a free man.

• (Batman: Death and the Maidens, 2003-2004.)

• Ra's al Ghul dies

• (Titans/YoungJustice: Graduation Day; Teen Titans vol 3; Outsiders vol 3)

• A team-up between Young Justice and the Titans goes horribly, resulting in several deaths, and both teams breaking up. Tim ends up joining the latest version of the Teen Titans, and Dick is reluctantly convinced by Roy to join the new Outsiders.

• (Birds of Prey vol 160.)

• Huntress joins the Birds of Prey, and things are finally looking good for her.

• (Nightwing vol 2, #83 and #95)

• In Blüdhaven, Dick's life is terrible, including Barbara breaking up with him, his old circus being burned down, and his building being blown up, culminating in Blockbuster's death.

• It's a bad time.

• (Robin vol 2 #127-128)

• Soon after, Tim's father discovers that he is Robin and forces him to retire. Stephanie temporarily becomes Robin before Batman takes the mantle from her again.

• (Batman: War Games)

• Immediately afterwards, the War Games begin – Stephanie starts a gang war to prove herself to Bruce and is murdered.

• (Identity Crisis)

• A few days after Stephanie dies, Tim's father is murdered.

• Barbara's Clock Tower is destroyed.

• The police are against the vigilantes

• (Robin #132, Batgirl #58, Robin #133, Batgirl #59)

• Tim, mourning his father and girlfriend, and a little tense with Bruce after the Stephanie stuff; and Cass is mourning her best friend; they move to Bludhaven, where they begin a stronger friendship.

• During this period, Tim placed himself in the custody of a fake uncle, after rejecting Bruce's offer to adopt him.

• (Nightwing vol 2 #107-115)

• Dick left Bludhaven and Gotham, working briefly with the mob in Detroit, and then with Deathstroke.

• (Birds of Prey vol 1 #74)

• Barbara moves to Metropolis with the Birds of Prey.

• (Batgirl vol 1 #66-73)

• Cassandra goes on a personal quest to discover her mother's identity, is caught with the League of Assassins, is killed, thrown into a Lazarus Pit and comes back to life.

• (She doesn't seem to tell anyone about this.)

• (Batman: Under the red hood; Teen Titans #29)

• Jason Todd (17) goes back to Gotham, kills some guys, tries to kill Tim (17), does his whole sad thing and leaves.

• While Under The Red Hood is happening, Dick (28) leaves the name Nightwing and becomes Renegade.

• He chooses to work with Deathstroke of his own free will because he is in a bad place mentally and thinks that Deathstroke can help him with his goals.

• (Infinite Crisis)

• Tension between superheroes and villains increases. Bludhaven is blown up and Dick returns to Nightwing, but does not return to Blüdhaven.

• (Alfred: 64; Dick: 25; Barbara: 28; Bruce: 41; Tim: 17; Stephanie: 17; Jean Paul: 21; Cassandra: 18)

• (Jason is 17 now, he died when he was fifteen. So maybe he was revived two years ago)

2004-

• Bruce's last paranoid spy turns bad and almost kills everyone, Superboy dies, Dick almost dies and the universe semi-explodes again.

• Bruce decides to take Tim (18) and Dick (26) on a fun trip around the world.

• When Cassandra (19) returns from her spiritual quest, she takes over Gotham in their place.

• Also during the holidays this year, Kate Kane (33), Batwoman, appears for the first time, although she actually has a lot less connection to the main Bat-family than you might expect.

• (Alfred: 65; Dick: 26; Barbara: 29; Bruce: 42; Tim: 18; Stephanie: 18; Cassandra: 19; Jason: 18, Kate: 33)

• (I don't know if Kate's age is stated at any point. And I don't know if the writers know either.)

2005 -

2006-

• (The events of "One Year Later" begin)

• Jim Gordon comes out of retirement to be commissioner again, for reasons that will never be explained.

• (Nightwing #118)

• Dick returns to NYC, where he has an unpleasant - but brotherly - encounter with Jason, who is still an anti-villain.

• (Batman vol 1 #654, 2006)

• Bruce offers to adopt Tim again, and this time Tim accepts and moves into the mansion.

• (Outsiders: Five of a Kind, 2007)

• Dick (28) leaves the Outsiders, and Bruce takes over the new team.

• (Batman and son, Batman #655-658, #663-669, #672- #675, 2006)

• Bruce discovers that he has a biological son with Talia, Damian Al Ghul (10) and takes him in. But Damian wants to be the only Robin so he tries to kill Tim and no one likes that so he apparently dies along with Talia.

• (Batman: The Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul)

• Ra's tries to steal the Damian's body to revive him. Things don't work well, he ends up in a different body and Talia and Damian disappear again.

• (Titans vol 2, 2008)

• Dick and company reform the Titans once again.

• (Robin #170-174; Robin/Spoiler Special, 2008.)

• Stephanie makes her return to Gotham.

• Tim is initially thrilled to see her, but this becomes an uncomfortable tension as her fake death takes hold.

• (Batgirl vol 2, 2008-2009; Batman and the Outsiders vol 2 #2)

• Cassandra returns to live in the mansion, Bruce adopts her and his daughter.

• At some point, Damian returns to Gotham and tries to reconnect with his father. He starts to live in the mansion with Bruce, Alfred and Tim.

• (Batman: The Heart of Hush)

• (Batman RIP)

• The Final Crisis happens and Bruce "dies" aka is lost in time.

• Dick returns to Gotham because someone has to keep this city and his family intact. And the Teen Titans split up again.

• (Batman: Battle for the Cowl, 2009)

• Tim convinces Dick to become Batman, with Damian as his new Robin.

• (Red Robin #1-4, 2009)

• Tim doesn't like Damian being Robin, and he also believes Bruce is alive so he becomes Red Robin and goes on his murder mystery tour.

• He also doesn't believe Bruce is dead and searches for him.

• (Batman and Robin vol 1)

• Dick, Damian and Alfred move into Wayne Tower, living in the penthouse and working in the underground bunker below.

• (Batman: Long Shadows, Batman #687-691)

• Dick becomes the new Batman. It doesn't take long for the city's criminals to put him to the test.

• (Batman and Robin, Vol. 2: Batman vs. Robin)

• (Batman: Streets of Gotham Vol. 1: Hush Money)

• Hush tries to pretend to be Bruce Wayne but Dick, Damian and the Outsiders put him under control.

• (Batman: Streets of Gotham – Vol. 2: Leviathan)

• (Batman: Life After Death)

• (Batgirl vol 3)

• On Bruce's posthumous orders, Cassandra gives the mantle of Batgirl to Stephanie. After she leaves the Outsiders and Gotham, she is later revealed to have gone to Hong Kong.

• Dick joins the Justice League as Batman.

• Stephanie returns as Batgirl. Dick tries to bring Jason back and he refuses, preferring to remain an anti-hero.

• (Red Robin vol 1 #10-12)

• Tim returns to Gotham now as Red Robin, now having proof that Bruce is alive, he also becomes president or something of Wayne Enterprises.

• (Alfred: 67; Dick: 28; Barbara: 31, Bruce: 44; Tim: 20; Stephanie: 20; Cassandra: 21; Jason: 20, Kate: 35; Damian: 10)

2007-

• (Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne / Bruce Wayne: Road Home; Batman: The Return)

• Bruce returns to life thanks to his allies and family. Dick returns Batman's mantle to him.

• (Batman and Robin, Vol. 3: Robin Must Die!)

• (Batman & Robin: Dark Knight vs White Knight)

• (Batman: Streets of Gotham Vol. 3: The House of Hush)

• Tommy Elliot cracks under the strain of living as Bruce Wayne and plots his ultimate revenge against Dick Grayson, Selina Kyle and other members of Bruce's friends and allies.

• Cassandra becomes Black Bat in Hong Kong.

• (Batman and Robin vol 1 #23-25)

• Jason (21) escapes from prison, works with Damian (11) and Dick (29) then disappears.

• (At this point Tim and Stephanie should already be in college, right? Let's pretend they are!!)

• (Batman: The Black Mirror)

• Dick, as Batman, has to deal with James Gordon Jr.

• (Batman: Eye of the Beholder)

• (Batman: The Night of the Owls)

• (Batman, Vol. 2: The City of Owls)

• Bruce meets Harper Row (19), who becomes the vigilante Blue Bird. She doesn't have as many appearances as she should and is soon left aside in the comics.

• (Batman and Robin: Born to Kill)

• The killer Nobody goes after Batman and Robin (Bruce and Damian). This is the first time we see Morgan Ducard and Titus, Damian's dog.

• (Batman and Robin: Pearl)

• Damian tries to prove to Bruce that he is worthy of being Robin just like his older brothers.

• (Alfred: 68; Dick: 29; Barbara: 32, Bruce: 45; Tim: 21; Stephanie: 21; Cassandra: 22; Jason: 21, Kate: 36; Damian: 11; Harper: 19)

• (I don't know if Harper's age is stated at any point.)

2008 -

• Jason (22) joins the Outlaws.

• Dick (30) sees that Damian (12) needs to make friends and develop compassion, to curb his harsh ways. He then takes Damian to Titans Tower, where Damian, despite not being a teenager, takes steps to become the leader of the Teen Titans.

• After dealing with his first mission, which at first was a disaster but ultimately went well, Damian leaves the Titans.

• Upon returning to Gotham, Dick notices that his brother has become more patient and less likely to use his weapons.

• Damian infiltrates Gotham Academy, where he meets Maps Mizoguchi (13), a big fan of Batman and Robin, who becomes his friend.

• (Supersons)

• Damian becomes friends with Jon Kent (10).

• (Gotham's Most Wanted; Batman and Robin: Requiem)

• They happen a little differently. Let's not make Talia the worst mother in the world, please, I hate what they did to her in these comics.

• Robin dies and Bruce is expelled from Gotham. One of the differences here is that since Azrael is dead (since we ignore the New 52).

• (Robin: Son of Batman 2015—2016)

• Damian meets Maya Ducard (Nobody).

• (Batman: Urban Legends Vol 1 #1)

• Jason Todd (23) is reinstated into the Wayne family.

• (Joker: Endgame)

• The Robin war begins.

• (Batman Vol. 10: Epilogue; Batman #51-52, Batman: Futures End #1, Batman Annual #4)

• Bruce tries to recover from the events of Joker: Endgame. Duke Thomas (17) joins the Bat-Family as the vigilante Signal.

• Gotham and Gotham Girl debut.

• (Let's just ignore most of I am Suicide, I am Bane, I Am Gotham and all that shit. Alfred is immortal and stays alive after this, please :'].)

• (Alfred: 69; Dick: 30; Barbara: 33, Bruce: 46; Tim: 22; Stephanie: 22; Cassandra: 23; Jason: 22, Kate: 37; Damian: 12; Harper: 20; Duke: 17)

2009 -

• (The Next Batman: Second Son)

• Jace Fox becomes Batman.

----

According to the comics, Damian is like 14 right now (and we ignore what the comics did to Jon), so Alfred should be 71 (since we pretend he doesn't die), Dick is 32, Barbara 35, Bruce 48, Tim, Stephanie and Jason are 24, Cassandra is 25, Kate is 39, Harper is 22 and Duke is 19.

[gffa]

There are better points of connection/references to point out for Batman #138, ones that are far more likely to be deliberate, but I had just read Detective Comics #1000 a couple of days before this issue came out and couldn't help thinking about one giving context to the other. That Bruce thinks he never should have let anyone follow him into this life, that he feels betrayed by all of them, but a special point is made that the oath Dick swore to him as a kid, to uphold righteousness, feels like it's been shattered. That Bruce feels like he should never have listened to Dick's argument about following him into this life--that the cat was already out of the bag, the moment that Bruce himself put on a costume, someone was going to follow him into this life, he couldn't stop it, it had already happened. And Bruce looks back on that and thinks that he shouldn't have allowed that argument to sway him. But he's forgetting what he and Alfred talked about leading up to that moment, why Alfred argued that Dick's inclusion was a good thing:

"You know how highly I think of you and your abilities. But he could make you better. He could be better. A hero forged in the light." The Detective Comics story isn't just speculation, it takes place when Dick is a kid, but we see a flashforward of Nightwing--it's a confirmation that Alfred's right, Dick is better than Bruce. Dick isn't the one that lost sight of what's important, Dick isn't the one who betrayed their vow--Bruce is. Bruce is the one who betrayed them all, that's why Dick isn't just a brighter version of Batman as a person, it's why we twice see him here as physically a better fighter. He's the better version of what Batman was meant to be. It's hardly a new truth about Bruce and Dick's relationship, it's been around before--Nightwing is the better version of Batman, the one forged in light, the one who brings hope. The one who leads through not just being a brilliant detective and battle strategist and world class fighter, but because people trust him and know he's worthy of that trust. Dick mirrors Bruce's origin story the most out of all the characters, his parents killed in front of him when he was under the age of 10, the anger that lives in his heart is one that burns for justice for people. Dick is the clearer version of Batman:

So, when their morals crash into each other here, Bruce can't see that Dick isn't the one betraying him (Dick doesn't even really seem to believe that much in Selina's plan so much as he knows they need the peace--however temporary it might be--her plan brings, because Dick tells her that this whole thing is stupid too, just as much as he's ready to tell that to Bruce), Bruce has forgotten that Dick is the clearer version of himself and that he is the one slipping down a bad path. That's why twice in this storyline, Batman underestimates him as a fighter and gets knocked on his ass for it. He can't see it because Zur-En-Arrh is leaking into him to the point that it's not really Bruce or Zur-En-Arrh, it's both of them, and he's so desperate to hold onto Batman to have a reason to hold himself together, he can't see that Dick is the one who should be making the judgement calls here, not himself. He's trying to force himself to stop loving his family, like he can't even see that that's the entire opposite of why he started doing any of this in the first place. It's not just crime that's the problem, it's the suffering people face because of that crime that he never wants to happen to anyone again. Selina's plan is already falling part, he's right that it's not the long term solution she wants to present it as, but in focusing on that, he's lost site of the actual point of what drove both of them to the vow--to make the world a better place. To fight crime so that others won't suffer.

A central theme of Dick Grayson's character--including Bruce's own view of him--is that he makes the world better just by being in it. Bruce thinks that, by forcing Jason into a state of terror so strong that he can't fight, it will force him out of the life of crime, but he's forgetting that the point isn't just that Jason doesn't do crime anymore, it's that he's not making the world a better place by doing something so monstrous. Jason isn't better off this way. Jason is already no longer murdering people and doing this to him won't help those he killed in the past. Nobody is better off this way. I get why, in Bruce's war zone of a brain, he genuinely thinks this is being kind, he cares about Jason and the only way he can see to save Jason from jail, is to force him onto this path. But he can't see that this doesn't actually help anyone, it doesn't make the world a better place. Keeping Dick or Jason or Tim or Damian from this life wouldn't have made their lives better, even if Bruce could have stopped them. (He couldn't have.) The whole reason he couldn't out-argue Dick even at 9 years old was because Dick was helping to make the world better. Jason and Tim and Damian are all fighting to help make the world better. Knight Terrors was the storyline just before this one and it had a moment where Bruce breaks free of Insomnia's nightmare by hugging his child self and telling him about all the people that were going to find him in the dark--his friends, his children, his loved ones. They made him a better man.

That's it, that's the story--when Bruce stops trusting his children, when he stops letting them influence him, when he stops letting his love for his family drive him, he loses everything, including his own grip on himself. Because the whole point of having them around was that they made him better, that some of them were directly meant to be a clearer reflection of his whole entire purpose, and the moment he stopped trusting them, the moment he realized Dick--the one he trusted with full access to the Batbox! the one he trained to be the best he could be, to be the one to stop Bruce, if he went over the line--was going against him, that's the moment everything broke.

[slytherinnerd05]

So I had to write an argumentative essay in English the other day, and I decided to write about why Cassandra Cain is the best one of the bat kids to take Batman’s name when Bruce retires….

“Even Batman admits his loss when faced with his daughter, Cassandra Cain. He was asked by Batwoman what would happen if he had to fight Cain, all he said in response was “I’d lose.” Given Batman believes he would lose when fighting her, it only makes sense for her to be his predecessor. She is the only one who genuinely wants and can handle the title. She can read body language. She is even more strict than he is with her morals. The only other member of the family who could take the mantle instead would be Dick Grayson. Cassandra Cain is the best choice out of his children to become Batman when he gives up the name.

Cassandra Cain has been Batgirl since 2000. She understands Batman's morals better than any of his other children, as she was raised with her mother, Lady Shiva. She trained to be a silent assassin, meaning her mother never taught her how to speak. When she came into the bat-family she learned sign language first, then eventually learned how to speak. She understands Batman's need not to kill, as she feels the same. They both believe they wouldn’t stop if they started.

While living with her mother she learned how to read body language. Meaning she can read every attack before they strike. She is so good at dodging enemies, that the CIA classified her as a “meta-human” (a human with superpowers, that isn't an alien), as they've seen her dodge bullets. The main reason she can and has beat Batman in a fight is because of her ability to read and dodge his attacks while still being fast enough to counter the hits. She may not be the strongest physically but she is the fastest and the most fluid in her fighting style.

She is the only one who can take his title out of all of Batman's kids. Some of the Batman villains have already seen her as Batman’s successor. Even if Damian, the only other one to want the title, feels like he can take it, he still believes that killing is acceptable, when Batman’s entire gimmick is that he cannot kill.

Ever since coming into the bat-family she is the only one who hasn’t killed. Dick Grayson, who is said to be the “next Batman”, has killed the Joker, after he tortured Tim Drake (long after Jason Todd had died). He has been said multiple times in comics as “better than Batman”, meaning he never should become Batman, as he is the light to Batman’s dark.

In summary, Cassandra Cain is the best choice for the successor to Batman because she is the only one who believes in his morals, she is the only one who wants and can handle the title, and she can read body language makingit simple for her to predict attacks.”

If anyone actually finds this I will be amazed

[the-woker]

The whole Jason Todd is girl-coded debate thing admittedly just rubs me the wrong way.

I understand that there are people who consider gender as a concept and there are other people who consider gender to be something very real. Both are correct and very valid statements of expression, but someone who is genderless and has a heavy respect and fondness for the feminine and people with such experiences, I feel like what we are declaring 'girl-coded' should probably be a bit more analyzed and taken with more care.  

I have no ill-will to any of the people who post about this, they all seem like kind people, and everyone is entitled to their opinions and to posting them.  There is nothing wrong with projecting onto a character, identifying with their struggle and using that to cope with your trauma.  As someone who’s favorite character of all time is Jason Todd, and enjoys gender-weirdness,  and has been severely mistreated for being perceived as feminine before, I understand entirely. 

But there's a point when I can't help but feel uncomfortable with assigning being violent, a victim, “hysterical angry-like a girl”, expressing rage via screaming, and looking up to women in general as 'girl moments' and explicitly stating these as the reasons a male character is girl coded. And those have been the very specific points I have seen cited as what traits Jason has that make him "girl-coded."

I'm putting this all under a read more since this discussion is really not that deep, nor is it really relevant to the average Jason Todd tag surfer. It's just something I keep seeing talked about in the past few months.

Admittedly, just to begin with, the argument that what makes Jason ‘girl-coded’ is the fact that he is a victim in general, has strong connections with women, tends to like strong and muscular women, and has been vitriol in his screaming matches with other characters simply does not sit well with me as an explanation for what people are associating women with.  A female character can indeed do everything Jason did in a comic story, and I would enjoy it greatly, however staking these specific traits of his as the “feminine” ones is treading into a dangerous territory.

Especially since I’ve seen a few times now that people are claiming Jason and Batman’s fight in UTRH to be a Patriarchy metaphor and how Jason represents women’s struggles. The first problem I have with that claim, is very simply that Jason and Bruce’s fight is explicitly not about Bruce being a system that failed to protect Jason.

Nor is it about a pressure for Jason to return to conforming to Bruce and his rules.  Bruce wants him back with him, because Bruce loves Jason, but at no point does he attempt to force him to return to him, nor does he even force him to stop killing.  He certainly gets in the way and he prevents several of them, but when given the direct choice to either kill or force Jason to stop killing, he simply walks away and only intervenes after Jason attempts to kill Bruce himself. Calling this an analogy for women fighting against oppression by an organized system designed to exploit them, is not an apt metaphor, as likable and sympathetic as it is towards Jason, and I’d personally recommend avoiding it.

In general, on that topic.  The argument could be made for other male members of the Batfam (take Dick Grayson’s constant sexual harassment for being a ‘pretty boy’ for example.), but Jason is also simply just not a victim of the Patriarchy.

Unlike Stephanie Brown, Jason was accepted immediately by Bruce as Robin and as part of the family.  He was murdered by his mother for being an obstacle in her operation of stealing from starving people, and by a madman who killed him for being one of his nemeses.  His murder was upsetting but had nothing to do with him not presenting himself as society claimed he should, nor for not obeying said society's customs and arbitrary rules.

Under the Red Hood is a fascinating, engaging, philosophical, and extremely emotional piece of media and it’s a favorite for many people (including me) for a reason.  Highlighting Jason’s actions as being a ‘girl moment’ when he is intentionally trying to push past Bruce’s only boundary, however, is an uncomfortable idea to proclaim. Especially considering when and how Bruce tries to negotiate and reason with Jason. Jason quite literally holds their relationship, and his life, over Bruce in an attempt to get him to behave how he wants, claiming that he does so as an expression of femininity has horrible implications. Jason is entirely allowed to do what he wants (I enjoy it greatly. His violence is very sexy and honestly we should bring it back) but that is a gender neutral choice, and I wouldn’t say that this run nor his backstory have much in common with women’s struggles to label them as “clearly being such”.

Additionally, The narrative is also not portraying Jason as “hysterical”; this was his first proper return to comics after 20 years. The intention of the narrative is to challenge the morality of Batman and to open an in-universe line of discourse for a discussion that for years, has been, and still is relevant in the comic community.  

Jason’s death was notoriously the moment that Batman got closest to breaking his rule and so they brought Jason back to be the character who pushed him on why he maintained it.  They made Jason angry and violent to raise the stakes of what the Joker did to him, and to raise the question of if there was a crime so horrible that it was a moral failing to continue the pacifist approach to criminal reform.  Jason is being treated in a significantly kinder light than most of the characters we would traditionally see doing these actions.  We all agree Lock-up was a bad guy, we can agree that the League of Assassins is wrong, but we’re given a chance to take Jason at face value and are not immediately told how to feel despite the narrative showing us his violence in a raw and uncut way. Killing a bunch of drug dealers while rising in the ranks of the drug trade yourself is hardly a selfless act of good after all. 

Disclaimer 1:  I don’t think Jason is entirely wrong about many things.  But I simply do not believe Bruce “owes” him killing, and that it is wrong of Jason to demand this of him or anyone for that matter. Nobody owes you their innocence and you aren’t entitled to breaking anyone’s boundaries. 

Disclaimer 2:  I cannot stress enough how much I like Jason.  This post is not meant to make anyone feel bad, or make Jason seem like the “bad guy” of the fandom.  It’s simply a disservice to his character to write him off as nothing more than an angry victim and call it an expression of femininity, and a reminder to be a bit more careful when labeling and assigning traits. 

[bluejaysandblackbats]

Catch and Release

Fandom: DC Comics, Batfam

Summary: AU where Jason doesn't die in the explosion and he and Tim end up attending the same high school months later.

Chapters: 15/?

Characters: Jason Todd, Bruce Wayne, Alfred Pennyworth, Tim Drake, Dick Grayson, Barbara Gordon, Sebastian Ives, Jack Drake, Janet Drake, Donna Troy

Relationships: TBA

Additional Tag: Jason Todd Lives, Jason Todd-centric, POV Jason Todd, POV First Person, Tim Drake Has Issues, Tim Drake Has Issues, Tim Drake is Not Robin, Jason Todd is Not Robin (Anymore), Bruce Wayne Needs a Hug, Alfred Pennyworth is the Best, Alfred Pennyworth Knows, Stalker Tim Drake, Jason Todd Has Chronic Pain, Jason Todd Has PTSD, Angst with a Happy Ending, Unlikely Friends, Injury Recovery, Emotional Baggage, Rage, Bruce Wayne is Bad at Communicating

Chapter Fifteen: Picture

I got up before Tim and Dick, showering before either of them could stir. I was restless. “Jason, are you okay?” Dick asked with his eyes shut. 

“Yeah… I’m alright,” I lied. Dick made a soft noise in the back of his throat, like a low grunt. He wouldn’t push me for the truth. “They’ll find Tim’s parents,” Dick reassured me, “Are you nervous about seeing Donna?” Dick questioned. I didn’t answer.

Luckily, I didn’t have to. The ping of Dick’s phone woke Tim and interrupted a potentially awkward moment with Dick. “You should get that,” I whispered. Dick walked to the front door and let Donna in. I froze the moment I saw her. Tim wiped his eyes and looked at me. “Jason, what’s going on?” Tim asked. Last night probably felt like a bad dream. I smiled at him. 

“Good morning, Tim,” I whispered. Tim smiled before squinting at Donna. “Donna, this is my little brother, Tim. Tim, this is Donna.” I stood up, and Donna hugged me.

“You look great,” Donna whispered, “How are you?” 

I forgot how strong she was. “Hey, Donna? Can you put me down?” I chuckled. She gasped and let go of me, dusting my clothes off. “I’m alright. We’ve got a few days out of school, so we took the ferry here.” 

“Hey, Tim, can I steal your brother for a second?” Donna asked. Tim nodded. I promised Tim I’d return as I grabbed my phone and followed Donna outside. She took me to the roof, and we sat on the ledge together. “Dick told me you got in a fight a few months ago… And that you were in a dark place. I hope you don’t mind that he told me.” 

“I don’t… I’m doing bet—.” I was bombarded with an image of Janet and Jack’s lifeless bodies. I covered my mouth, fighting the urge to vomit. Sheila. Janet. Jack. Mom. Dad. So many graves. So many dead parents.

“Jason?” Donna asked. She touched my arm. 

I blinked hard. “Sorry… I—. I was in a dark place, but it’s been better since I met Tim. It’s been—. I’ve never had a normal life, but living with Tim’s family feels normal. I hope it stays that way,” I whispered.  She smiled. “Normal sounds good… But—. Jason, what are you hiding?” Donna asked. 

“Tim’s parents’ plane didn’t land where it was supposed to… They might be fine, but—. Donna, when I picture my parents in my head, I see corpses. I can’t remember what they looked like when they were alive. I don’t want that for him,” I answered. I needed to tell her. I didn’t expect Donna to understand, but I expected her to sympathize. She cared about me. I truly believed that. 

Donna sat with my words and swallowed hard. “Jason, is there anything I can do to help?” Donna questioned. I shook my head. 

“Batman’s on it… It’s funny. I left home because I wanted to show him what I could do—. I didn’t want him to think I needed him. I wanted to be independent of him, but I was useless to Tim. I can’t fly to the Caribbean and track his parents—. I’m not there yet. I still need him. I still need help,” I whispered. 

“There’s no shame in that. Jason, I have superpowers, and I need help. The League, the Titans, the Amazons, and the Green Lantern Corps… One strong person doesn’t make a hero. The best heroes know they can’t do this all by themselves. Do you understand that?” Donna asked. I smiled.

She didn’t know my plan would only work with Tim’s assistance and the help of a mystery teen hacker. I wouldn’t go in alone ever again. I was smarter than that. I wouldn’t make the same mistake twice. “You’re right. I’ll be strong enough to be on a team again,” I whispered, “But I should go downstairs and check on Tim. I don’t think he remembers what happened last night.” Donna nodded and escorted me to Dick’s apartment. Tim hadn’t come out of the fog yet. I could see it in his eyes. “Good talk?” Donna whispered. 

“Great talk… Thanks, Donna,” I smiled. 

“Tim, do you want break—?” My phone pinged, and I checked my notifications. Tim’s parents were kidnapped, and the man responsible wanted a ransom for their safe return. My stomach turned. 

I could see them staring at me, but I couldn’t hear anything outside my heartbeat and the ringing I heard after the warehouse explosion. The apartment closed in, and I saw Jack and Janet again. I couldn’t wake up from the nightmare in my head. I tried to speak, but no sound came out. I shut my eyes until I could hear their voices, and I dragged Tim into Dick’s bedroom to talk. I sat beside him on the bed, hiding my face in my hands while I collected myself. “Tim, I—.”

“My parents died, didn’t they?” Tim interrupted.

“Wha—? No. Your mom and dad are alive. They’re alive, but they’re—. Tim, I don’t know how to put this. Someone kidnapped your parents,” I whispered. Tim swallowed hard. “You have a right to know.” 

“You found out right now, didn’t you?” Tim questioned. I nodded. “What was it like for you when you lost your parents?” 

I shook my head. “No. Tim, don’t—. Jack and Janet are still alive. We don’t have to think that. Tim, you can’t think that,” I answered. The question sent me spiraling into another panic. I covered my face again, and Tim plopped backward on the bed. 

“Jason… Can we take a walk? I need to take a walk,” Tim whispered.

I nodded. “Come on, Tim. I’ll buy breakfast,” I mumbled. Neither of us moved. “Tim, I’m sorry.” 

“You didn’t do anything wrong,” Tim answered, “I need a distraction… Okay?”

“We’ll go to the park after breakfast, and I’ll time you on your run,” I whispered. Tim patted me on the back on his way out the door. 

“Dick, we’re gonna get breakfast and take a walk!” I announced. I had to swallow my fear and keep going for Tim’s sake. Dick and Donna stayed behind to catch up. 

*

We went to the skate shop near Dick’s building on the way back and decided to skate around the neighborhood. “I thought you were gonna get a new board… I didn’t think you’d put on rollerblades,” Tim laughed. 

“Rollerblading is sick. Come on,” I replied.

Tim shook his head, laughing as he skated ahead of me. We needed the distraction. Donna and Dick hung out on the fire escape when we arrived at the apartment. “Hey, Tim? Is he embarrassing you?” Dick joked. 

I rolled my eyes as we stopped in the alley. I changed into my shoes and followed Tim up. I felt a sharp pain in my back, and I lost my grip, but Tim caught me. Donna pulled me up by the back of my shirt. “I’m okay. I’m fine—.” 

Donna dusted me off and breathed out in relief. “Are you sure? I’m sorry that I jumped in like that, but I—. Instinct,” Donna replied. I nodded. 

“Thanks, Donna. Thanks, Tim,” I answered.

[lazlolullaby]

late hatching, a Batman Beyond and Batfam concept

I think i made myself clear as mud in my last post that the Batfam as it stands now in the comics does not mesh with the DCAU timeline.

but that doesn't mean the batfam can't come to Terry.

Special thanks to this fic (slice of life where Bruce is younger, has the fam but can't go vigilante anymore so they hire Terry to babysit) https://archiveofourown.org/works/44548396/chapters/112054687

and this series. (Balances dark and light very well, even if the Batfam grow and protect Gotham, Terry still gets the cowl) https://archiveofourown.org/series/1710604

So. Here's Cake #3!!! Ya'll enjoy and if you make something i'd be happy to see it!

TL;DR: Cassandra steals a delayed Damian from the League of Assassins, reunites him with his elderly genetic donor, and decides to stick around. Dick decides that he should probably keep a closer eye on the manor. More people come out if the dark streets of Gotham, ready to fight to keep it safe.

Batman II gains Pranking Auntie Black Bat, Worried Uncles Grayson and Drake, Mob Parents Jason and Roy, the gossipy PIs Signal and Spoiler, and Murder Child Robin. Terry gets an existential crisis, Matt gets a some emotional and physical wounds, and Mary gets some inheritance money.

AKA: Beyond limited capes AU.

From the top, chronologically:

Cassandra lost her chance to train with Batman. He refused, after the Incident with Tim Drake and the Joker. Even though she was a trained fighter, he can't risk it. He can't risk anyone. He points her in the right direction for help and keeps tabs like he does.

Cassandra is adopted by Nightwing and becomes the Batgirl of Bludhaven, eventually Black Bat on her own, focusing on saving other children forced into a life of cloak and dagger.

(Jason Todd was never written into the DCAU shows. He and Tim Drake were condensed for reasons. But let's presume he was there the whole time. They were friends on the streets. He was late trying to help Tim find out what was in the locker. He remembers Robin later trying to help him before suddenly leaving. Overlooked by Batman, thus overlooked by the Joker, the League of Assassins, and heroics in general. But he survived. Saw all of the pain and anger and just decided to run his little piece of Gotham how he likes it. No starving kids. No heroes or villains. Absolutely no Jokerz. Roy Harper comes to break it up but then goes: hey I'm sorry but the Drug Lord just got me clean off drugs so I'm gonna marry him.) They are older gay mob grandpas with their daughter Lian.

Since the Joker is dead, Duke's parents are not affected by the Venom. He still has an interest in vigilantes. He was able to track what happened to Robin. Batman scares him off, but he's still determined to help. So like comics canon, Bruce points him to learning opportunities. He ends up becoming a Private Investigator, of Signal and Spoiler fame.

Batman saves Stephanie Brown from her shot at the cape. They also work closely with Barbara Gordon. Stephanie is also an investigative journalist and busts open several mob and villain rings with the help of Duke, Jason, and silent help from Batman.

Cadmus sees all of these new Robins keep getting denied left and right. Concerned that Batman was needed, they go ahead with Project Batman Beyond.

Bruce discovers this. He creates a false paper trail. A company was illegally creating clones/children of the rich for blood transfusions and organ transplants. And the occasional "long lost heir" con. It was easy enough to add Terry and Matt to the list before exposing them.

Bruce went over to the Mcginnis household with a lawyer and an NDA. Terry and Matt don't have a legal right to the Family Fortune, but they do have a small trust fund to be given when they're 18. (small is relative when you're rich.)

Terry grows up. He gets the job at Wayne Manor. (With Mary's blessing, of course.)

Terry tracks down Dick Grayson and they have a agreement about weekly emails. He never comes to Gotham. (Batman II, fighting Nightwing: PER MY LAST EMAIL-) Dick doesn't show up at the Manor at all. Not until Terry sees him scrubbing the Joker Graffiti off of the Batcave walls.

Now everything after this is post-ROTJ movie.

And then. Damian. The League of assassins has been trying to recreate Batman as well. But all of the clones consistently die around their 8th birthday. So the project was delayed by decades. They accepted a work around with the splicing tech. Damian wasn't originally related to Bruce and Talia. But they overwrote his DNA to truly make him the Heir. They were training him to take over the Batman mantle - he wasn't ready to do it yet, but then Terry as Batman II pops up. Damian is angry. Cassandra is able to sneak in and use that to smuggle him out to Gotham.

so now the Manor starts filling up with Dick, Cass, Damian, and occasionally Tim and Terry gets moved to a less hectic shift. He's bounced off of solo vigilante status and now has to contend with Cassandra and Damian following him around.

The official story is that the Cloning and corporate espionage happened and now Dick Grayson came back to Gotham to help his elderly father raise his clone and handle his affairs. He brought his security detail, Cassandra. Also they get Titus the emotional support dog for Damian.

Mary Mcginnis calls Bruce and renegotiates the terms of the NDA, since the cat's out of the bag. She sits Terry and Matt down and tells them that they're not genetically related to Warren. Terry. Does not take it well. Matt is confused and sad.

Damian hears about this and tries to kill Matt both as a "thing the League trained him to do" and "he's like me why does he get to be happy?" anger and jealousy over his life.

Batman II is seen wrangling a brightly colored child and demanding that he not stab his brother. Matt recognizes the wrangling and figures out who's under the cowl.

There are now officially two Robins. Pray you get the one without a sword.

(that's it it's just Terry adjusting from being a Single Child of Batman to being a Middle Child of the Batfam)

[linkspooky]

Got any fac superhero comic villain that isn’t Batman villains?

I mean… let’s be real here tho, most interesting and well written villains do mostly be from Batman.

But I am curious if you have any fav villains out side from Batman’s?

Okay, so the reason I primarily talk about batman and Teen Titans is they're primarily what I've read. I actually like villains from other rogue's galleries, flashes is good, superman's is good, but the thing is... I've read every Teen Titans comic ever so here we go.

3. Deathstroke.

One time I heard someone refer to deathstroke as the "Anti-Teen Dad" and no phrase has better captured his character. Deathstroke doesn't work as a batman villain, he doesn't work as an arrow villain, he is at his best as a Teen Titans villain because Deathstroke is someone actively harmful to children.

He represents the uncaring and horrible adults in the world these teenage heroes face as they are growing up, there's a reason Deathstroke's biggest arc is basically grooming and destroying any chance Terra had to be a good person (and other gross stuff but it's triggering I don't want to talk about it), there's a reason Slade's backstory by Wolfram is that he basically destroyed his family's lives, let one son die, let the other son's throat get slit, abandoned the third. He is the ANTI-TEEN DAD!

Christopher Priest who wrote the character's rebirth run put Slade's character into words better than I ever could.

I often had to fight City Hall and repeat, ad nauseum, that Deathstroke is a villain. In the first issue, Slade kills a bear in order to save his son. Then he goes back and kills the bear’s cubs because, to his thinking, it would be cruel to leave them without a mother. That is Deathstroke. But I had to fight to get that in because of concerns over the character’s likeability. This was the unfun part about writing this character, a guy who should have an even sharper edge than Wolverine. Please write this down someplace for future reference: Deathstroke is an ass.

I wrote this in my Joker analysis too, there's nothing good or redeemable about Joker, but he still has an extremely important role in the story because he represents the death that Batman is fighting against in the world, so for Dick Grayson who is trying to grow up and help all of his friends grow too, he's the perfect counter and opposite someone who not only destroys his kid's lives but targets other children too. "Please write this down someplace for future reference: Deathstroke is an ass." Any attempts to make Deathstroke more honorable and more honorable just kind of fall flat, his name is DEATHSTROKE, he represents the force of uncaring death and danger in the world that's utterly hostile to teens and these kids have to deal with.

2. Blackfire.

I talk about Blackfire's character more in depth here, but her character works best if you consider her the "Red Hood" to Starfire's "Nightwing." Her character itself starts out as just kind of an evil sister who is one dimmensionally obsessed with killing and hated Starfire and was jealous all her life. The wicked sister to Starfire's Cinderella. However, she gets a lot more depth over the story.

I don't want to undermine how much Blackfire did in fact commit sibling abuse on Starfire, but there's a really good "Generational Abuse" storyline in both Starfire and Blackfire. I think a lot of people want to talk about the cycle of abuse in storylines but don't want to really read stories where characters who are abuse victims end up perpetuating abuse which like... how do you guys think the cycle of abuse happens then? Anyway, Blackfire's extremely messy especially since there's really bad shit she does in her early writing when she's more one dimmensional.

HOWEVER! Literally everyone complains about "I hate how in every marvel movie, the villain is just evil version of the main character" Blackfire subverts that whole trope in fantastic and brilliant ways. The story allows Blackfire to be right, and have a point of view outside of Starfire's that's equally as valid. Blackfire has an entirely different take on her childhood because she was neglected horribly by her parents. She says the true source of the abuse in their family was her parents and she's right. She advocates for stronger leadership in Tamaran because her parents are wishy washy and can't defend their own parents and she's right there again. In later versions of her character, Blackfire's bloodthirstiness and warlike personality didn't come out of nowhere, it's a survival mechanism that evolved out of necessity to survive and she's not conquering the planet for her vanity or ego she genuinely thinks she'll be a better leader. Honestly, a more three diemmnsional Blackfire is just more interesting because evil big sisters are just boring.

1. Terra.

Have I ever told you I love Judas Contract? I love Judas Contract. Of course there's a little bit of weird writing in Terra's character, where she's clearly a grooming victim, and also an abuse victim by her parents and a teenage runaway who's genuinely had a hard life and the writers go (no, just ignore all of that she was just born a sociopath, we aren't shaped by our traumatic experiences at all don't be silly).

However, SUBTEXT is a thing, even if the intention was to just write Terra as a flat sociopath the subtext is there that she is a really complex victim. Terra's entire character revolves around the fact she is a victim, but she's not an innoecnt person either. Her being groomed by Slade doesn't absolve her of all responsibility for her actions.

TERRA IS THE ULTIMATE BAD VICTIM IN COMICS, her entire character revolves around the fact that she was abused, and was not a perfect selfless angel about it, she didn't feel like helping other people, she hated the heroes around her because of how good and selfless they are when she wasn't, and yet she's still sympathetic. IT's a tragedy that she died, because human beings especially children no matter how amoral they may be or what their actions were don't really deserve to suffer to the extent Terra has. Terra's entire character revolves around the fact she self destructs. I believe there could be an arc where Terra was saved, or at least given a chance to be her own person outside of SLade, but the whole part of the Judas Contract is that the Titans as well meaning as they were just COULDN'T get to Terra in time b/c she didn't fit into their neat little boxes of what victims should look like. I don't think Terra is a bad person so much as, she never really got the chance to be her own person outside of the horrible tragedy that rocked her life because she died too soon. That's another thing, it's ALWAYS tragic when a child dies, especially since you can generally still reach those children at that age and when you cut off their future like that you cut off any chance they had to grow up. Like there's a lot of TERRA BROUGHT IT ON HERSELF, SHE DIDN'T WANT TO GET BETTER, like chill out dude she's sixteen. Anyway, Terra is my favorite comic book character of all time she's a bitch and I love her.

[danganronpasurvivoraskblog]

What we toons does mod normally read? Any recommendation?

//All things considered, I’m the one who should be asking that. I honestly don’t use webtoon very much, and I think based on my recent posts, you can easily figure out why. I’ve heard that Lore Olympus is worth checking out, but other than that.

//With that being said, I have recently been reading a story on Webtoon called Wayne Family Adventures by CRC Payne and Starbite, which is VERY good. If you don’t know what it is, it’s basically a slice of life story that revolves around Batman and all his protégé’s, acting as a dysfunctional and troubled, but happy family.

//And when I say all his protégé’s I mean ALL his protégé’s! Ordinarily you’d think that it’d just be Barbara Gordon, Dick Grayson, Jason Todd and Tim Drake, like most official media, but NO! Basically EVERYONE is here; Damien Wayne, Stephanie Brown, Cassandra Cain, Duke Thomas, Luke Fox, and like, SO MANY MORE.

//And it covers basically all the issues that come with being the adoptive father of so many masked vigilante’s, not only teaching them to fight crime, but also trying to give them a normal life, which is increasingly difficult because basically all these kids have deep-rooted childhood trauma just like Bruce does, and it covers all its bases in the most spectacular fashion. One chapter could be centred around one of the characters PTSD (take your pick which one because holy shit) and the next could be a silly chapter where they all have a prank war against each other. And I think it’s great.

//It honestly does show just how important a fanbase is to series, because works made by fans are often the one’s that show the most passion and dedication to its craft.

//Aside from that, there’s only other one I’ve read that I think was interesting. I know that they’re a bit of a controversial figure and it’s not really my place to say anything on the matter, but Merryweather’s StalkerXStalker was actually a pretty fun tale when it was still around.

//It does a lot of the edgy tropes that other webtoons do a lot, but the difference is that the base concept is a romantic relationship between two yanderes, so not only do you expect it to be overly edgy, dark and twisted, but it has the right to be, unlike most manwha’s which take ordinary concepts and make them obscene levels of edgy for no reason.

//And sometimes, it can be pretty funny. Black comedy is not a genre I’m particularly catered to, but StalkerXStalker is kind of where my taste in that genre lies.

//Side note, kind of unrelated to my critiques of this comic, but the main female character’s name is Junko, so…clearly it’s catered to me tastes right from the start.

-Mod

[toulousewayne]

Batman: the Brave & the Bold

—

This is a concept for a DCEU adaptation of Batman: The Brave & the Bold.

———

This is a concept for Batman: The Brave & the Bold. Set in the DCEU.

Cast:

- Batman/ Bruce Wayne - Scott Adkins

- Damian Wayne/Robin - Carter Rockwood

- Dick Grayson/Nightwing - Taylor Zakhar Perez

- Barbara Gordon/Batgirl - Leslie Grace

- Alfred Pennyworth - Jeremy Irons

- Ra Al Ghul - Oded Fehr

- Talia Al Ghul - Nadine Nassib Njeim

———

This is apart of the DCEU franchise. Which will Mostly be Batfamily films. This is the first film in the first wave of trilogies. The second one in this series is Batman vs Red Hood

This film take inspiration from a few different comics and ideas from the old DCEU. In this universe we pick up with an older Batman. Robin has been dead for a few years and his partnership with Dick Grayson (Nightwing) is nonexistent. Batgirl has just proven herself as a ally to him and has been his crime fighting partner for about nine months at this point.

The film is an action film,with family moments throughout it.

Batman and Batgirl receives a call from Alfred while patrolling in the Batmobile. About a double homicide in the Diamond District and hurry to meet Gordon.

We cut to a temple in the Mountains where we meet a young Damian Wayne training with several league members. Over watching is Talia Al Ghul. Her Father Ra appears and tells her that his time is coming, Talia tells her father that he is far to young which he dismisses and tells her to prepare him. Talia has shift in her demeanor and decides in that moment she has to get Damian away from her Father’s influence. We she a brief montage of her pack and later she takes Damian from his room in the middle of the night. Most battle through the league. She barley escapes and puts Damian on a ship and gives him a bag and tells him to find Bruce Wayne in America. And the ship leaves as more league rush towards Talia and there gone in the fog.

We see as Damian arrives how hard it is for him to adjust to his new life with his father. He wants to return to Talia but Bruce cannot find her not is he sure she’s alive anymore. Damian struggled and lashes out at everyone Bruce, Alfred and even Barbara. Who takes it upon herself to try and show Damian how normal kids live life and it backfires because she isn’t able to convince him. She calls in a friend. And Dick Grayson arrives to see the famous Batman’s son.

Barbara and Dick try and show Damian things he didn’t have in the league. Like ice cream, pizza and other things kids his age enjoy meanwhile, Bruce is trying to find Talia while also trying to figure out how to be a good parent to Damian. Throughout all this Ra Al Ghul as returned to Gotham and has set his plan for revenge in motion.

By the time Bruce figures it out Ra as released bio weapon on parts of the city and goes to his blimp to stop him from destroying the city. Batgirl and Nightwing go to City Hall to stop his assassins from killing the Mayor and Gordon. Feeling that he should help Damian takes the Robin suit and goes out to help. He first saves two civilians from assassins. He learns that not everyone is an enemy. After that he helps a police officer evacuate an apartment building making his way to help his father defeat his grandfather.

Afterwords Bruce makes Damian Robin full time with training and showing more restraint.

In the last scene,we see Talia watch Batman and Robin from a nearby rooftop while there patrolling and she smiles to herself before returning to the shadows and that’s where this first film ends.

In a post credit scene we see a figure emerging from the rainy shadows and arrives at the gates of Wayne Manor. The figures turns out to be the Red Hood. It cuts to black before he say, “Surprise Old Man, I’m Back.”

—————

I hope you liked this addition. It may be fun to do this little concept for the DCEU so if there are other ideas you have for this pocket universe let me know. 👍

[celaenaeiln]

Hi! I really love all your takes and character analysis. I'm new-ish to Batman so these are always so educational for me 😅 I was wondering, in your opinion, of all the batkids, who would you say would make the most terrifying villains? And who, canonically, would you say exercises the most self control to prevent exactly that from happening? Like every day, they have to work to prevent themselves from crossing that line.

...(Is it Dick? I feel like you're going to say Dick)

Thank you!

You got me!! Those are good questions!

I had to think a lot about this honestly.

So for most terrifying villain, I would say Dick. Mostly because it's just canon. When Dick was the villain both times in New Order and in DC vs Vampires, he practically eradicated the world based on who he felt needed to go. In DC vs Vampires he didn't care for anyone so by the time he was done there were no humans left. In New Order he lost it when the heroes accidentally killed Bruce and thus destroyed the entire justice league and remade himself as the head of all military operations under the government. Dick also knows exactly how to kill Bruce and he's terrified of it (Nightwing: Knight Terrors). Kory once told him during the Teen Titans (2003?) comic that Dick could stack up all the Titans and could take on the Justice League if he wanted to but Dick states that he knows and that's exactly why he's scared.

Also the way he manipulates every single person in existence in both his typical Nightwing runs is just a hint of the brilliance. Many times when his partners want to chase after a villain, he makes them let them go so that he grab the lizard, its hiding spot, and its family rather than just the tail.

Grayson Annual #3

Dick is not reckless in anyway either, he plans and analyzes and calculates as he moves which makes him a fantastic strategist, detective, and doer all in one.

Or actually I change my mind, I choose Cass. I forgot about her initially. Cass can beat everyone in the world (except Harley). Batman has admitted it too.

Detective Comics (2016) Issue #951

She's unstoppable. So unless the Batfamily sends in Harley, in a straight fight where no one runs away *cough* Batman Issue 137 *cough*, then Cass would win. After her though, in a tactical and fighting sense combined it would be Dick.

Jason is canonically the one who struggles with self-control everyday. But unlike some people, I don't think this a fault of his that should be changed or erased. To me, each robin represents a certain characteristic of society.

Dick - the hope of the people.

Jason - the anger of the people.

Tim - the morality of the people.

Stephanie - the safety of the people.

Damian - the rights of the people.

Dick says the meaning of robin is helping the good. And all the robins do this in their own ways.

Jason's robin represents the rightful anger by the people against the injustice. Like the Boston Tea Party against Britain's taxation, Jason was born and raised in Gotham so his love for the common people on the street is overwhelming. He wants to help every woman and child find a better life and survive because it's reflective of the life he and his mother were forced to face. So when he sees a man sexually assaulting a woman or beating a child or selling drugs, his anger bursts out. And in Gotham, there's a lot of that everywhere. So take a good person and put in him the skills and fuel for hurting the bad and you get Jason Todd. That's why from his Robin days he has struggled with self-control.

"He was a drug dealing pimp."

Batman (1940) Issue #645

"I'm sorry...but that doesn't mean he didn't deserve it."

Furthermore in the Batman Urban Legends comic also in the Batman and Robin Eternal comic it shows that Jason's greatest wish is the Joker's death and that coupled with the Gotham War and Selina's interference, Jason has the most trouble with self-control. But I believe it's rightfully so.

I think after Jason it's Dick who struggles with self-control. Not as robin but as Nightwing. Especially during his darkest days of the Nightwing (1996) comic and the Outsiders comic, Dick has been shown to forcibly stop himself when someone hurts his friends or family.

Okay, the difference between Jason and Dick's struggle with self-control is that Jason feels it all the time because his motivating factor is ever present while Dick only struggles with it when someone hurts the people he loves because that's Dick's motivating factor.

Damian is the one who has the most trouble after that. Then Stephanie, Tim, Cass, and Duke. Although if you're including Stephanie's robin days, she would be tied with Jason.

[fifteenblackcats]

Okay so I recently watched this tik tok about Jason Todd that had some great points about his character. The main thing that interested me was the fact that the person in the video pointed out that Jason feels like a fan fic character. As someone who loves the character and has read all of his comic series, I have to agree.

Tbh it’s not usually the fault of Jason’s character that he feels like a fan fic character, that’s more Dc’s fault. Like when it comes to his own series, they usually don’t have the best writing and can’t really compete with other bat family comic series. Personally I love all of his series, even the New 52 Outlaws series (which I know is a controversial opinion lol), but overall when I recommend Jason’s comics to my friends, I have to literally warn them that the overall writing isn’t good. The only comics of his that I can say that are genuinely good are the Task Force Z comic he was in and the short story from Urban Legends. Basically anything written by anyone besides Scott Lobdell. I personally mainly read Jason Todd comics for his character rather than the quality of the writing.

Back to Dc’s treatment of Jason Todd. I swear I love Dc, but they fuck up their canon so much. Which includes why I think Jason feels like a fan fic character when he really doesn’t have to. A lot of it is tied to Dc’s continuity issues. Personally I don’t have a problem with the fact that two of his friends, Starfire and Roy Harper, are originally Dick Grayson’s friends. I understand why some people may have a problem with it, but in my opinion characters don’t always have to be tied down to friendships with one character for the sake of canon. My main example is how he is a part of the Bat Family. Jason of course will always be Bruce’s son, so in that way it makes sense that he’s with the Bat Family. But with everything else it just doesn’t make sense. Mainly Jason’s morals once he comes back from the dead. He is completely fine with killing criminals, which is why it is very contradictory that Batman would let Jason be a part of the Bat Family. Bruce is very stubborn and very strict about his moral code, so it really doesn’t make sense that he would let Jason operate with the rest of the Bat Family. It’s kinda this reason that I have to say that he feels like a fan fic character. I know that Bruce gets in fights (physical fights too) with Jason about the killing, but Jason in many Bat Family stories is still included in many of the Bat Family comm channels and many Bat Family events. Again I love Jason, but it would really make more sense for his character to be an anti hero who keeps to himself. Technically he does this, but since he’s such a fan beloved character DC always includes him in the Bat Family, even when it doesn’t really make sense for Bruce or Jason.

In recent years since Rebirth, Dc has tried to make canon make sense as to why Jason should be with the Bat Family. Jason’s moral code is slowly changing to being less lethal by using rubber bullets instead of real bullets. So far I guess this works? At least he’s not killing as much anymore, but his morals haven’t really changed. At least in my opinion. It seemed like he mainly agreed to use rubber bullets to stay in Gotham, otherwise Bruce would kick him out of the city. Tbh this seems like a temporary solution to a large issues relating to Jason’s character. He of course can stay an anti hero that kills, but then I think it doesn’t make sense for Jason to be a part of the Bat Family where everyone has a similar moral code to Batman (expect for maybe Kate Kane, but even then it seems like it is very rare for her to decide to kill). Either Dc should create a real character arc to show why Jason wouldn’t want to kill anymore or just separate him completely from the Bat Family. Maybe they could have him be a main vigilante in another nearby city, like how Nightwing is for Bludhaven. Otherwise it does kinda seem like fan fic because it doesn’t really make sense for Jason to work with the Bat Family so closely. Besides the aesthetic of Jason be the edgy anti hero of the Bat Family.

Anyways those are just my thoughts and you don’t have to agree of course. As someone who loves his character, I don’t exactly like saying he feels like a fan fic character, but his poorly written comics (which I still love, but I can be honest with myself) and convenient place with the Bat Family in canon make me feel like he can give fan fic vibes.

Anyways here’s the video that inspired my post:

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRsDGw1R/

[polls-r-us]

Completed Polls List

Results

Batman

What character(s) do you consume Batman-affiliated content for?

What member of the Bat Clan are you according to your favorite color?

Under the Red Hood: Jason says Batman has to shoot either him or the Joker. What happens next?

What member of the Bat Clan do you think is most often mischaracterized by DC's own writers?

Choose one (1) new standard that's to be fixed in place so DC writers can't retcon it

What kind of a dad do you think Bruce is

Would you even be interested in Batman comics if the Robins never existed?

What is objectively the most hilarious persona of Bruce Wayne as a concept (not necessary in practice)?

Your stance on canon vs fanon

Your stance on Batman crossovers

Who looks like they have their life together, but is actually a complete disaster?

Who mellowed out as they got older?

Who seems like their life is a chaotic dumpster fire, but surprisingly has their shit together?

Who only gets more unhinged the older they become?

Which one of the these more niche Bat Clan members is your favorite?

Who is the most fashionable Bat vigilante in their everyday life?

Who's secretly double-jointed?

Whose only form of social media is a secret account they use to roast people?

Which Bat vigilante do think is most often underestimated by the Rogues and/or henchmen?

When it comes to the Bat Clan what are your priorities?

Which Bat vigilante was most likely a member of/affiliated with a band at some point?

What kind of family dynamic would categorize Bruce and Dick's relationship to be?

Which version of Dick Grayson was the better villain?

Which Bat vigilante is your best friend based on your favorite Hostess snack?

Which Bat Vigilante is the MOST Extroverted?

Which Bat Vigilante is the MOST Introverted?

Which Bat Kid grows taller gradually?

Who can get the pettiest when it comes to arguments?

Who deliberately tries to embarrass the other Bat members in their public personas (the most frequently)?

Which Bat Vigilante is a TRUE empath?

Which Bat Family member would most likely be a contestant on a dating show?

Which Bat Family member is most likely to end up a contestant on a trivia show?

Which Bat Family member would end up as a contestant on a Survival show?

Which Bat Family member would audition for America Ninja Warrior?

BatKids

Which of the Robins do you think would have had an objectively better life without taking up the mantle?

Who has the most emotional intelligence of the Bat Kids?

Gaslight, Gatekeep, Girlboss…

Mansplain, Manipulate, Manwhore…

What Bat Kid age order is canon to you?

What do you picture as the age gap between the Bat Siblings

Which Bat Kid secretly needs glasses?

Which Bat Kid Do You Feel The Most Kinship With?

Which Bat Kid Would You Steal Away From Bruce Wayne?

Which Bat Kid is ChAoS Personified?

Who picks fights when they're bored?

Who (reluctantly) mediates the fights?

Who instigates fights amongst other people for their own amusement?

Who takes insignificant competitions between siblings WAY too seriously?

Who gets pulled into petty squabbles against their will?

Who will be the tallest of the Bat boys by the time they've all stopped growing?

Who Is Technically Bruce's First Son?

Which Bat Kids will end up the same height or taller than Bruce?

Which Bat Kid has the most well-rounded set of skills for vigilantism?

Which Bat Kid would never violate the "no kill" rule?

DC

Biggest Himbo Energy in the Justice League

Which Outlaws team do you like better?

Jason Todd-centric

How do you perceive Jason Todd?

What is Jason Todd's true hair color?

Would Jason's All Caste swords have worked against the vampires?

Who should have been Jason's biological mother?

The race for parental custody of Jason Todd begins: Who will win?

Who is the sibling that Jason is closest to?

Which one of the Batgirls is Jason on the best terms with?

If DC makes it so Jason can only have one (1) which should he choose?

Riordan-verse

Which one of the PJO-verse girls do you want to read a book that focuses on mainly them/their backstory?

What Greek God would be your parent based on your hobbies/how you wish to spend your free time?

Which book is your favorite in the Heroes of Olympus series?

Favorite of Rick Riordan's mythology-based series

SPN-verse

What was your favorite Supernatural era?

What actors do you like better for young Mary Campbell and young John Winchester?

Which one of Dean and Sam's bio grandparents interests you the most?

Which plot change would you have liked to see play out on Supernatural?

Who has the most interesting dynamic of the main three characters?

How did you get into Supernatural?

Fandom Crossover

What Bat Clan vigilante do you think Dean Winchester would get along with the most if he actually met them in person?

What Bat Kid would be able to win the Hunger Games (in general, not against each other)?

What Batkid is the most Castiel-coded?

What Batkid is the most Sam-coded?

What Batkid is the most Dean-coded?

Which Bat Kid Would You Want To Strike Up A Friendship With Peter Parker?

Mixed Media/General Fandom/Miscellaneous

You can only save one (1) Jason. Who's it gonna be?

What is a common issue in comics that you find unbearable?

People who watch movies/TV shows adapted from books/comic books, do you think they do the source material justice?

Which Peter had the biggest influence on your childhood?

Which "Hero Hopeful That 'Died' And Returned as A Villain" Boy Is Your Favorite

Who would you spare them their assigned fate in the Hunger Games series?

Favorite source of Marvel media?

What is your favorite zombie apocalypse-related franchise?

[ao3feed-brucewayne]

The New Teen Titans Part 2 The Judas Contract

read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/HVczsln by KatScythe THIS IS WHAT 'TITANS' SHOULD HAVE BEEN A new, adult revamp of the original 2003 Teen Titans cartoon, with bits and pieces from all the different media versions of the Teen Titans out there. Filled with blood and gore and foul-mouthedness, and real consequences to five superpowered idiot teenagers running around blowing stuff up and causing general mayhem. THE STORY CONTINUES… Dick Grayson—Robin, the Boy-Wonder—is finally out from Batman's shadow, and finds himself the newly minted leader of his own fledgling team: Victor Stone, cybernetically enhanced tech-genius; Koriand'r of Tamaran, alien Princess with explosive fire power; Garfield Logan, animal-shapeshifting goofball; and Raven, dark telekinetic with a mysterious past. Fresh off their victory over the aliens that attacked their city, the five young heroes begin their training, learning about their powers, their strengths and weaknesses, and how to work and fight and live together as a team. Then, a new, untrained meta appears, in desperate need of their help. But as the unexpected newcomer joins the group, they start to wonder if there may be more to Terra than meets the eye… updates every Friday-ish... Words: 4901, Chapters: 1/?, Language: English Series: Part 2 of The *New* Teen Titans Fandoms: Teen Titans - All Media Types, Teen Titans (Animated Series), Titans (TV 2018), Teen Titans (Comics), New Teen Titans, DCU, DCU (Comics), Batman - All Media Types, Justice League - All Media Types, Teen Titans: The Judas Contract (2017) Rating: Teen And Up Audiences Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings Categories: F/M Characters: Raven (Teen Titans), Dick Grayson, Robin (DCU), Koriand'r (DCU), Starfire (Teen Titans), Garfield Logan, Beastboy (Teen Titans), Victor Stone, Cyborg (Teen Titans), Bruce Wayne, Batman (DCU), Nightwing (DCU), Justice League (DCU), Batfamily Members, Terra (Teen Titans), Slade Wilson, Slade (Teen Titans) Relationships: Dick Grayson & Koriand'r & Garfield Logan & Raven & Victor Stone, Robin & Starfire & BeastBoy & Raven & Cyborg, Dick Grayson & Bruce Wayne, Garfield Logan/Raven, Dick Grayson/Koriand'r Additional Tags: TITANS GO!, BOOYAH!, Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, AU, DC threw canon in the garbage so I'm going dumpster diving, if Titans had been done right, i fixed it!, Teen Titans as Family, Raven-centric (Teen Titans), Empath Raven (Teen Titans), Demon Raven (Teen Titans), she's kind of an eldritch horror, BAMF Raven (Teen Titans), BAMF Dick Grayson, BAMF Beastboy (Teen Titans), BAMF Starfire (Teen Titans), BAMF Cyborg (Teen Titans), how are those not recognized tags!?!?, they're all badasses and they deserve to be put in the tags, and dorks, they're all adorable dorks, Dick Grayson is mad sexy and it's giving me a complex, stop it, Romani Dick Grayson, these guys being domestic gives me life, and Dick Grayson's horrible puns, and the dick jokes...those too, Bruce Wayne is Bad at Feelings, Bruce Wayne is Trying, at least he's a better parent than Steve Dayton, and everyone on Azarath, there's definite child abuse, they are definitely not the good guys in this story, RobStar, bbrae – Freeform, idiots to lovers, Slow Burn, and i mean VERY slow burn, but they're just SO STUPID, I mean I know I made them but yikes, get it together guys read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/HVczsln