#Not because he doesn't think original Tim was part of the family

[dyinggirldied]

royal consort au brainrot

the royal consort au by @dcxdpdabbles makes me lose my mind so i have to share this so i can go to bed:

danny has his own wikipedia page though there is ongoing debate on whether they should use present tense (since he is alive) or past tense (seeing as he is engaged to the ghost king/high king of infinity realm)

some part of the social media romanticizes danny's situation as a hades and persephone or cinderella or both. you just know that some girls and boys out there are maddeningly jealous that danny manages to bag a king who is seemingly deeply in love with him.

unfortunately, he becomes a standard of beauty (twink, short, black-hair and blue eyes) because somehow rumors leak that phantom finds him the epitome of beauty. bruce is a bit worried since tim sort of fits the bill. in another city, billy batson/shazam is being teased by his adoptive siblings also for that precise reason

surprisingly, danny can be a charming speaker which people thinks it's part of why phantom fell in love with him.

bruce (and a portion of the world, including constantine) is concern since danny is still young (not sure how old he is in original prompt so i left it vague) and this whole thing; being the most popular public figure in the world and being haunted constantly by paparazzi, his joining with the ruler of the dead, the political between his home world and his future one, might damage his psyche sooner or later and bruce is trying to find a contingency plan for that.

and what's even is batman's contingency plans for this kind of situation, i don't know. im not that smart but clark, diane and constantine and the flash family will need to be there. to make sure bruce doesn't accidentally go too far.

also, this one comes like a hammer to my head but what if one day, danny feels an itchy sort of feeling in his throat but waves it off as a cold? he regrets it when barely a minute later he coughs out a palmful of blood. danny might be in outdoor place or in the justice league headquarter but the point is: everyone panics. especially once he loses consciousness.

this one can be branched off into two:

someone, either the leftover resentful giw or amanda waller, decides to poison him.

maddie innocently makes lunch for her son, after finding a new bag of spice for the meat. that spice contains blood blossom, which is deadlier for ghost (or half-ghost) if you eat it. of course, clockwork will ensure no one finds out danny is a halfa by making the machine detecting it as allergy, if a bit unsual one and danny will still live, if a bit disgruntle and so done with his half life already

[batmanlovesnirvana]

— The Waynes like the American royals or the Kennedys…

[ Matt Reeves, director of The Batman, spoke about his opinion on Thomas and Martha Wayne. The director revealed that his version of the Waynes was inspired by British or American royalty such as the Kennedy family. ] via KCRW

KCRW: So many of the movie iterations of Batman going back to Tim Burton’s are about how Bruce Wayne is basically a part that he plays. And the Bruce Wayne that we see in "The Batman" is somebody who doesn't have that kind of equipment, who isn't shaped in that way, who doesn't find this kind of release in pretending to be something that he isn't. Both of his lives bleed into his alter ego and his more public iteration.

REEVES : “One of the things that was interesting to me was to focus on not an origin tale because we'd seen Burton had done that so well, and Nolan did it so well. I wanted to do an early years “Batman” and Bruce Wayne. And it was important to me that while it wasn't an origin story, he was, in the early years of what he was doing, and was still trying to make sense of himself, was still a young man trying to put himself together and find a way to function. This idea of not yet understanding even the asset that being Bruce Wayne could be, the way that other iterations of the character have where they realize, oh, I can be Bruce Wayne, and that can be another kind of mask. He's just not together enough yet to even understand how valuable that's gonna be.

I was interested in the idea that Bruce was at a stage where he couldn't bear the weight of the history of being part of the Waynes. I thought it might be a bit like a member of the Kennedy family like the American royals, or what a British royal would be like in the wake of a tragedy and how a lens has been put on you because of a family tragedy that you couldn't have never escape. And so his response would be to want to withdraw from all of this and not understand that in the mission that he was trying to do to try to make sense of his life, he might be able to use what had happened to him as a kind of mask, which could be useful to him.

This whole movie is about him coming into being. It's not about him mastering himself. Of course, it's a fantastical notion that you could master yourself. I mean, nobody masters themselves. What was really interesting was seeing somebody who was trying to master himself, but had a tremendous amount of what he was doing that he didn't yet even have awareness of. He wasn't aware of his motivations. And I was thinking about the idea of masks and sort of Jungian psychology and him being driven by his shadow side. That whole idea that in Jungian psychology, you're supposed to make yourself aware of those shadow impulses so that you're able to incorporate them into your life. I like the idea of him being at this stage in his life, where he really wasn't seeing that, and he didn't understand everything that was driving him because he was in a kind of emotional freefall. ”

[starry-bi-sky]

Just the idea of clone Danny and clone Talia working out much bette then him and Talia would confuse poor Bruce. And best part all 4 of them don'T believe he is batman Danny: "We know he is your Sugarbaby, Mom and dad talked about it." Clone Talia:" So no fear, my OG liked a Himbo. And well Danny is a one too."

FR THO AND THEN THERE’S BABY DAMES IN THE CORNER SWEATING BECAUSE HE KNOWS. HE KNOWS. THE LoA TOLD HIM. He’s not saying SHIT though because this is hilarious. He’s silently laughing in the corner. And yessss Clone Danny and Clone Talia working out much better is exactly why I thought of it -- because one its funny and two the potential angst. the could have been.

It doesn't ever occur to Bruce to tell them he's batman but that conversation still comes up during mealtime one day while Danny's recovering (he has to be tied to his chair because he found the gym and nearly dislocated his shoulder trying to train. Dammit Danny your bones are made of glass right now from destabilizing, let your cells repair before doing anything!) because the four of them were talking about Batman and his clan of kids.

Danny, frowning: im not a himbo?

Nasra: reportedly when you first met Damian, your first response to his attacking you was to... grab the blade with your hands, multiple times. This resulted in you slicing a nerve in both hands and permanently weakening your fine motor control.

Danny: well--

Nasra: even now you're rubbing your palms, you only do that when your hands are bothering you.

Damian, snapping his head up: what!?

Danny: you noticed that?? also i learned. I didn't repeat myself when you attacked me when we met, did I?

Nasra: i. suppose not. you're still a himbo, however.

also Danny does his usual 'run on negative sleep' bullshit while in the manor except now he has not only damian but also Nasra tag-teaming his bullshit. Like no, Danny. you need sleep to recover your strength. your ghostly investigation can wait until you're not about to pass out and break your nose on your laptop. They have whole ass arguments in arabic - all three of them - as damian AND nasra drag danny to the closest soft horizontal surface. Danny returns the favor to the both of them when those two are also doing their 'negative sleep' stuff.

Dick at bby Dames: so do you....

Damian: know that you guys are Batman and his family? Yeah. Grandfather and Mother told me before I was living with Danny.

Tim: how come Danny and Nasra don't know then?

Damian: I didn't think it was important to tell Danny that his original was Batman. He does know of the League, however. He calls Grandfather my "super evil, ecofascist grampa and his cult of killers" and doesn't want to know more out of worry of needing to get involved.

Dick: I - really?

Damian: yes, he figured that since grandfather had yet to successfully wipe out my original, then that whatever Damian Wayne was doing was working. And that if he knew more, then he might have to get involved, and he has own problems to worry about than the League of Assassins.

[dairy-farmer]

(Here's the ask that originally was 6 parts)

Jason, Dick and Damian find out that their father is in a serious relationship with someone who is much younger.

Dick is worried about that someone, how hard being with Bruce is and how much they're going to be judged, but Damian and Jason 100% sure that that person is using B.

So Jason, the only family member unknown to the general public, decides to investigate it. He is going to make them come clear and then put them in their place.

He finds Tim in his workplace (WE, hospital, DI or else), in the park or coffeshop.

Somehow Jason starts talking about his relationship with his father. And... He is not being judged?.. Tim is very understanding. And Jason finds himself smiling, joking and just having fun.

They exchange numbers. Jason thinks that Tim probably thinks of him as a friend, but Jason himself seeks in Tim acceptance, unconditional support and love. Someone who is just proud of him. Everything a parent should be.

Damian thinks that Todd is an idiot at first, but then he finds himself agreeing with him. Tim says that it must be hard, when your parents aren't together anymore. And they are so different. Damian probably feels like he is between the devil and the deep sea. And he is in a foreign country where everything is so strange...

Jason and Dick are loud. Dick and B think in absolutes. They usually don't explain why thinks the way they are. Tim does, he is quiet and safe, sees the world in greys. Damian can talk to him about being raised in the LoA without being shutdown, being told that it's wrong. Because there were good things in the LoA. Things that he misses.

Dick comes to Tim, thinking that he is going to save him, gently explain that he doesn't have a future with B. Instead he gets a hug and a parent's gentleness. Dick isn't too much for Tim. He isn't too active and loud. He can just be. He can make stupid jokes, stand on his hands, cry about a breakup. And Tim won't judge. He doesn't need him to be a certain way. He will hold Dick, just spend time with him. Dick can always come to Tim. Whenever, wherever. Tim will always have time for him.

It all gets even better when they find out that Tim knows about what they're doing.

They have a schedule because each of them wants to have Tim all to themselves.

Bruce is finally in a serious stable relationship and he can't even spend time with his soon-to-be fiance because his children say that he should have been there when they came up with a schedule.

Just Tim being a perfect stepparent.

🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺 tim being the affectionate, understanding, encouraging parent they always wanted. so even if they didn't initially approve and/or were suspicious of him that gets forgetten in the face of possibly having an emotionally mature parent who will pat their heads, hug, and comfort them!🥺🥺

[kuromitos]

May the best hero win!

[Dick Grayson x GN!Reader x Jason Todd]

Plot: what happens when two batboys have a crush on the same person? Chaos. Petty Chaos.

Note: more storyline based on my OC that I'm too nervous to share with. The reader has a hero name called 'incognito'

It was supposed to be a regular night. A typical run down of the latest mission in Gotham. But we are talking about the Wayne Family here, or should I say the batfamily, there is nothing 'normal' or 'typical' about them.

Instead of going to collect the Intel from their reliable source, like they are supposed to do, Nightwing(Dick) and Red Hood(Jason) are fighting each other on top of a rooftop. With Red Robin(Tim), the signal(Duke), Spoiler(Steph), and Robin(Damian) watching them from another rooftop and taking bets on who will win the fight. While the black bat(Cass) goes off and completes the mission.

How did we get to these events? Well, things first started earlier in the night. Batman contacted the members of his family to gather inside the Batcave for their briefing before patrol, "we have received Intel earlier in the month that shipment of a new drug is coming to Gotham in the coming week." Batman stated while pulling up the required information on the back computer.

"A new drug?" Nightwing asked, "I ain't heard anything about no new drug." Red hood said with a mad tone, his regular tone. "That's because it's technically not new." Red Robin pulled up articles and reports from his wrist computer to the bat computer for everyone to see. "It's originally a chemical used in medicine but somebody decided to use it as a base for a new drug. There have been huge reports of it in Chicago, Detroit, and Baltimore. Recently, there's been rumors of it spreading to Gotham and now it's have been confirmed."

"The problem now is we don't know where the shipments is being dropped off." Batman said, changing the info on the screen to a photo of three men. "That has only been shared privately with these men only. But we have a double agent that was able to get the location for us and going to give it to us at the usual location on top of the Lincoln bank building. " He concluded his small speech with his back to the group because he doesn't want to see their faces of annoyance from them.

"The agent is . . . . Incognito. " "UUGGGGHHHH!"

Now hearing those groans you would think that they hate or can't stand the person called 'incognito'. Quite the contrary, they love them and consider them as an extended family member. What actually causes those groans were the two guys that like incognito some much more than everyone else. So much they turned it into a petty competition.

"I'll go" "I'll go"

They both turned toward each other when hearing each other voices and glare at each other. Those glares were signs to everyone around them that this was going to all night. Especially when Duke uttered the words "not this again."

"Don't you have to be bludhaven right now? Dick. " "Don't worry about that, Jay. I settled things before coming over. What about you, huh? Shouldn't you be covering crime alley or hanging out with the outlaws?" Dick smirks at his brother's poor attempt at jabs. "Just got done with a mission, dick head. " "Then you must be tired. I'll do this little info collecting-" Jason interrupted dick with a finger shoved in his face. " Don't give me that crap. You talked to them last time. Im going this time!" " Come on Jason. I'm just looking out for you. You don't think straight when you're around them." "Better than you. At least I think with my brain here" He points at his head, "and not the one down here." Jason grabbed his private part in a vulgar manner, which got a reaction out of dick. Pissed off. He was about to retort back but he was stopped by hearing Bruce scream at them both, "Enough! " which grabbed their attention. Jason still grabbing his. . . Little hood.

"Both of you going to the meeting point, then. Whoever gets there first can collect the information. I don't care who does it, just go!" Bruce yelled at them. They both stood there for awhile before Jason run towards his motorcycle screaming 'I'm getting there first!' With Dick on his tail also screaming, 'No you won't. '

~~☆~~

That's how we got to where we started. They raced thru the city using their personal own shortcuts until they bump into each other on top of an apartment building. Both felt they won't get their private moment they wanted with the double agent of their dreams, they decided to fight the other. First one down on their back, wins.

At first simple sparring quickly turns into a full-on brawl. Going at each other for at least an hour. Neither holding back on the other. While throw petty insults at each other too.

"Dickhead"

"Blowhard"

"Man slut"

"Zombie"

They took so long on this fight the other kids stop their patrol to watch and place bets. Jason was getting the winning votes.

It looks like the fight could go on forever since neither one looks like stopping anytime soon but a certain stop them in their tracks.

"Got it." They both turns towards the voice to see black bat with a piece of paper in her hand. "Got what exactly? " Dick asked with his hand on Jason's jacket, tight in his fist. "The location. It's the docks." She jump away from the two and probably back to the big bat. Everyone else follows her, forgetting the other two men.

Hearing they lose their chance, they let each other go and awkwardly stand beside each other. Their stupid fight got in the way. They missed the person who stole their affection. All because of their petty fighting. Hopefully this would be a lesson for them both to stop this -

"First one back, can meet them on the next meet up"

"You're on. Don't blame me when you lose. "

*sigh* nevermind. They're hopeless

Sorry if they are ooc here. I hope to improve my skills soon.

I'm also might do a part two if you guys like it enough.

That's all I got. Bye for now ( ≧∀≦)ノ

[tumblingxelian]

Honest question, what do you think a well-written "Jason lives" story would look like?

Like, if Death in the Family still happened, but Bruce saved Jason before it was too late, then odds are there would still be consequences resulting from how BADLY the Joker brutalized him.

Hmm, OK so with your starting premise and utilizing my knowledge of comics to come but also the fact that if Jason lived then certain ideas and plots would be nixed... While all still colored from my perspective, here is my general take:

So, first, rather than Bruce saving Jason I'd say Jason actually manages to save himself, either because he released his mother or managed to half talk her through disarming the bomb.

I know the original splash page has Bruce pulling him from the rubble but that makes zero sense even by comics standards, he and Sheila should be charred corpses.

So, the bomb is disarmed or they managed to get out cos he released Sheila and Bruce arrives to whisk Jason away to medical treatment with Sheila keeping his head above water.

The exact next sequence is harder to make sense of at first, but here's the thing. The original comic could let Joker get away with learning who Jason was behind the mask because he 'died' soon after and then 'came back'. He also initially mistook Tim for Jason. So, given his state of mind it can be... Tacitly tolerated that he never deduced or used Bruce's identity.

Here, that's a bigger issue and so I will say that to keep the tracks covered as much as they can...

Sheila is kept in custody because while Bruce is furious with her, she did keep Jason alive & separating them seems like a bad idea, though she is to be closely watched by Leslie & Alfred.

Unfortunately, the intel she gave him on Joker's plan was slightly false and she used her time to slip away to go after the clown herself, intent on a redemption arc.

There's messages, misunderstandings, truths revealed and another arrest that doesn't last, before Joker is once again in a helicopter trying to escape but this time with Sheila who shoots him, but he shoots her back as he lays dying and the helicopter crashes.

They cannot find Joker's body but Sheila stayed above long enough to die later, musing on where her life led her, the importance of getting a chance to do something, and that Jason is a real good kid, better than she or Bruce deserve.

This is deeply tragic, mostly conceptually and philosophically, but still.

This is enough to make Bruce sort of ease up on Jason, but at the expense of becoming more overprotective in general. Which is hard to argue with as Jason is doing physical therapy and Dick has a broken leg.

So the drama for the ensuing period is Bruce trying to bench key allies and family ETC, so he can keep them safe while still running himself more ragged, but not quite as terribly as his suicidal spiral in canon.

He also has ideas on sending Jason to a semi boarding school to try and keep him out of super heroics. If he succeeds, this plan will still fail and likely ends up forming the nexus of Jason's own mini team with Eddie and Rose. But also would fail to keep him out of Gotham sufficiently. Still he may be at Brentwood some of the time so one can justify solo Batman stories & some more school time adventures for Jason.

But before all that happens, we have a new player in the field.

The Spoiler!!!

That's right, into the arena is the one, the only Stephanie Brown. She's here to spill the tea and kill her dad, and maybe protect her community on the side.

Best part?

Bruce either does not know who she is at first, or has zero jurisdiction over her and can't gain any without revealing his identity or attacking a teenager for trying to help and she is slippery regardless.

Basically, one of the people who helps crowbar Bruce back into tolerating help is Stephanie basically keeping her original give no fucks about Batman attitude and doing her own thing.

Their relationship is likely a bit contentious and back and forth, far more hands off, not quite mentoring, but also less outright toxic than canon.

She & Jason probably have a thing and bond over some shared and different history stuff, but I don't see it being the mainstay relationship.

Young Justice is likely found eventually under similar circumstances, though Stephanie likely gets to be a member this time, as do Eddie & Rose.

I think the team would be less, Kon, Kid Flash & Robin and more like a cycling mass of active or present members, dealing with an overseer.

Basically a comic series to throw lots of different personalities power sets and problems together and see what dynamics emerge as popular.

After that, less sure.

My ideal is Jason goes to university or maybe has to stay with Young Justice or some other area full time and adopts his own hero persona while Steph gets a run as Robin alongside Cassandra as Batgirl.

Otherwise most major storylines, save one's reliant on Jason being dead, still happen. Steph likely has a less horrible time as Spoiler, but is also maybe always and forever more overtly on the outs so she might not get Robin as she might not want it. (Though maybe during No Man's Land...)

See what I mean about the plot drift?

War Games may still happen but probably with a very different, though not inherently better cos Bruce's plan was dumb, resolution.

Also Joker does return, sadly, and there's always likely a hovering question as to whether he knows the truth of their identities but its never confirmed, or isn't until he dies again.

[scintillyyy]

anyways if i were to try and modernize drake parenting (which i guess i already have with my one fic lmao), the one thing i would not do is keep the "out of contact for months on end" part because to me, that part was definitely meant to be a limitation of the time era (i will forever be yammering about robin ii: joker's wild and when bruce went to russia during tim's training period because even bruce, richest man in the world and who happens to be batman, was unable to be contacted while overseas in that same time period) and despite those time era limitations they clearly did attempt to somewhat keep in touch with their son and keep him in the loop of where they were!

detective comics #618

now, in general, a lot of how they're perceived is because of tim's speech bubble when he says "i guess that sums them up! never know where they're going to be--or when--or even how long!". and tbh it should! tim at 13 isn't privy to a lot of their plans and they probably don't feel the need to give him detailed itineraries because he's only 13. or maybe they do, and he's 13 and doesn't bother to remember them because they have the tendency to change on the fly. but i think a lot of people will modernize this as "tim would know where they were with today's technology, ergo, they must not talk to him for months on end because he only got postcards every so often". but to me, the postcard is pretty key that for the time period they were at least trying to keep their son in the loop about their travels! here are some things we also find out in this exchange: tim knew they were in zanzibar prior to this, so they had to have contacted him to let him know that and the post-card is their way of telling tim "hey, we're in the caribbean now! we plan to be home next week or the week after. we'll call you once we're home!"

(and again. i genuinely don't take much umbrage at the whole "we'll call you" thing. say they make it home tuesday night at 9pm. tim is in boarding school. of course they would call right away, rather than show up or something, to let him know they made it home alright, since they probably can't just pop in. they would probably make plans during that to pick him up on friday so his schooling isn't interrupted.)

sorry, tangent. given that the drakes are shown to be somewhat keep tim in the loop despite the technological limitations of the time, to me it makes more sense that when modernizing them they have the ability to call him and talk to him and let him know their plans and they actually do so--and to me, this changes so little about what 13 year old tim knows about their plans and itineraries. so to me a modern drake family isn't one that doesn't call tim for months on end because originally they sent post-cards from wherever they were at. a modern drake family would, in fact, be updating tim in real time about where they're at because they have the technology to do so. and the best part is is that you can still manage to give tim his canon issues with them, despite this!!

because you have the drakes. they still choose to send tim to boarding school versus take him with them. likely their side of this is out of love for tim--they want him to have a good education, a stable childhood, to be safe from some of the more dangerous areas they travel to. and tim, age 7-8 when this starts, would probably still feel abandoned, like his parents are leaving him behind despite what their intentions are! and the drakes do their best to keep in touch. weekly phone calls and face-times where they talk about their travels and ask about tim's week at school. but their plans change so much even when they try to give tim a solid itinerary, it changes. tim will ask how switzerland is and "oh! something came up and we're in italy now". there's still a sense of instability there for tim--he's 11 and while his parents are trying their best to keep him updated every week, things change behind his back. they ask about his grades and worry if it seems like he's struggling with a subject, a completely normal thing for parents to be concerned about and it's their only measure of how tim is doing in school, and because they're not really physically around tim internalizes it somewhat as "they don't care as long as my grades are high" even if that wasn't their intention. it's superficial conversations of school and extracurriculars and always ends with i love you and miss you but always dances around the deep subjects of "i miss you" and "sometimes i feel like you don't love me". when his parents start fighting more, it's both relief and bitterness that they're gone, so tim doesn't have to deal with it.

and then there's janet. and while modern janet wouldn't necessarily face as many societal issues towards being a working mom as she would have in her introduction, she does have to deal with modern motherhood and all its issues, the main one being guilt and shame. i like to keep the idea of her as a young mother like she likely would have been back then because that in itself can be a sort of stress for her. all the other mothers in her upper-class cohort are probably a good 10 years older than her and probably look down on her a bit for her age. she's lost touch with a lot of same age friends because they're in very different life stages at this point. she never really got a chance to establish herself prior to having a child, which makes her slightly more dependent on jack and more likely to overlook his worst behavior. she wants to be someone her son will be proud of, so she busts her butt for her education and her job, never realizing that she's slightly neglecting her son because she's so focused on being a good example for him, someone he can be proud of, like all of his other peers. she loves tim so much, would choose to have him again and again and again if she had to, but she feels like a failure that motherhood isn't the all encompassing fulfillment that everyone around her seems to say it is. she enjoys work, but does that mean she doesn't love her son? she hates how much she enjoys work, how it makes her feel like a real human being instead of just "tim's mom". she has a husband who definitely does not contribute 50% of the work or mental load. so whenever the school calls, it's always up to her to deal with it. she's a little resentful that jack doesn't put in any of the work. is he even doing anything, really? she calls up tim. "are you sure everything's okay there? i can come home." "yes," tim lies, just to see the relief in his mom's eyes. "everything's totally fine. i'm very happy. school is nice.". she and jack are fighting more. she doesn't want to do that in front of her son.

jack thinks everything is dandy. why wouldn't he? he's never actually done any of the hard work. he's the fun dad. in a more modern era, he's more likely to have been a latchkey kid and tbh? he thrived in it. little parental oversight. the problem with kids these days is that parents are too involved, y'know? he can't believe what this world is coming to with all this hovering. anyways, jack loved it, so why wouldn't tim? speaking of tim, jack is so proud of him. whenever someone asks about his son, he can't help but smile. "tim? he's the greatest kid in the world. smart as a whip, too. i'm so lucky to be his dad." he would never tell tim that, though. he shouldn't need to--isn't it obvious how proud he is of his son? he was fine without hearing all that mushy stuff. he just knew his parents loved him. tim should just know. janet's getting more snappy with him and he doesn't understand why? he's a far more involved father that some of the men he knows. why, last time they were home, he took tim to the monster truck rally just so janet could have a few hours to herself. why is she so ungrateful for everything he does and provides? "hey sport," he says on the call when tim is 12, "why don't we go fishing next time we're home?" jack loved fishing with his dad. tim smiles and says "sounds great, dad". tim is lying. he thinks fishing is boring, but he doesn't want his dad to get that flash of disappointment in his eyes.

the drake's marriage is falling apart. when tim says he's fine, they're grateful. they tell tim how much fun they're having, how well things are going. they don't want him to unnecessarily stress about their marriage. their world may be imploding, but at least their son, the best thing that ever happened to them is doing fine. thank god. they don't know what they would do if things with tim weren't fine with all of this going on.

it's why they can't make themselves look underneath the surface.

[halfagone]

You know, that recent post with more thoughts on bio mom!Selina has given me an idea. Because Bruce and Selina, in one version of canon, have a daughter. Helena. Huntress. Consider: Another twins au, but with Danny and Helena instead

You have activated my DC knowledge, and I hope you know that >:3

Helena's character is a little more complicated and I am here to ramble about that before I get to the meat of this ask. There is a universe where Helena grew up to become Batwoman, not Huntress. And that is because she was raised by her parents and didn't get separated. But since you specifically mentioned Huntress, I'll try to stick with that one.

For anyone that doesn't know this part of DC comics that well, something you should know is that there are two Huntresses. Helena Bertinelli and Helena "Bertinelli", otherwise known as Helena Wayne. In the New Earth and Prime Earth comic series, their version of Huntress is the real Helena Bertinelli, whose family was a part of the mafioso and she was dubbed a "mafia princess".

But then, there's Earth 2, where Helena Wayne was actually Robin before being sent to another universe alongside Kara (more specifically, Power Girl) and ended up taking the alias of Helena Bertinelli, who had existed in this world but had been missing/presumed dead.

So where does that leave us? [Added a Keep Reading because this got long lol]

Since you specifically addressed Helena as Huntress, I'm going to be using this comic run:

You could probably write a story about how Danny finally finds Helena again and the two reunite, thus revealing that Helena had lied to almost everyone and she was indeed Helena Wayne once upon a time. And this of course would lead to revelations and heart-to-heart discussions about Bruce and Selina's relationship and what kind of parents they were. I like to imagine that when Danny reunited with his family for whatever reason that separated them, Danny becomes Robin as well. So there are two Robins stalking the streets and scaring the living daylights out of criminals.

However... if you wanted to make things a little more interesting, we could take this version of the comic and take it for a little spin.

In the original canon, Helena has already operated as Huntress for years before Damian figured out the deception. She's already an adult, and largely on her own.

But in this case, we can make Helena freshly from the other universe. Lost and unsure and all on her own. Enter Batfamily. The moment they get her in their sights they realize that oh, she's Bruce's kid from another world/timeline/whatever their first assumption is. And then, when they get her to open up, she reveals that she has a twin. Bruce is Unwell at the information and Helena is inconsolable because they only just got him back, and now they've lost her. Her parents are never going to let her out of the house again after this!!

Meanwhile, Danny is losing his mind and their parents are trying to do everything to get her back and it's a whole mess.

If you want to make things a little more interesting, you could make Danny and Helena the only Wayne children, so that when she goes to the other universe she's super taken aback by how many siblings she could've had and "isn't that our neighbor Tim? Tim Drake? Danny's bestest friend ever? What are you doing in that egghead suit, Danny would be appalled to see you dressed like that."

Something I will have to say is that we probably don't get a lot of AUs like this because the rest of the Batfamily would probably be adults and there's a rather large age gap between Damian (as the youngest) and Helena + Danny, in this case. Unless you have them from another world, of course.

Think... Batman Beyond, with Terry McGinnis. It's an amazing series, but pretty much all of the main characters that the fandom typically writes about are retired. There is no Nightwing or Red Hood or Red Robin. Damian is alive but he's back with the League of Assassins. Let's not talk about how Tim and Barbara are married.

I think this AU could be really fun, and I'd be interested in trying it out some day. But it is one of the trickier instances. But no less exciting because of it. ;3

[brucewaynehater101]

ok here's another wingfic au but taking it in the opposite direction from the last one. (different person from the original op btw)

what if tim and all of the bats did have wings but instead of the surgeon adding wings they actually removed them from tim?

now tim has to deal with the experience of losing his wings and not being able to fly anymore. maybe it took away his instincts so he can't reciprocate anymore despite once being able to do so with ease. or maybe he still has his instincts but the others find it hard to reach out to him now that he doesn't have wings anymore.

but tim is a stubborn fuck so what if we combined this with that one fake wing au where tim learns to build his own wings bc he refuses to never be able to fly again.

and maybe tim manages to pull it off to the point where no one even knows that tim ever lost his wings in the first place until it's revealed in a traumatizing manor idk.

the fake wing fic i was talking about is called "Loading and Aspect Ratio" by JUBE514

Oof. For some reason, I can't read fics where someone loses their wings. It's such an important part of their identity and being that losing it causes an insurmountable amount of grief. To me, I imagine it to be similar to a vital part of someone's culture being taken away from them (like forcibly cutting hair for some cultures or preventing someone from having access to an important part of their identity).

However, I would so be down for a fic where, after Tim loses his wings, he creates prosthetics. It would not be the same, but Tim could learn to find himself again in the pile of wires and metal he fashions into his ability to fly again.

I think this prospective fic could have many different themes it could address:

One, Tim would probably be pissed at people treating him as fragile or lesser because he lost his wings. This could be a great allegory to how people treat disabled individuals, especially after an incident that changes the person's ability. It could also address how folks interact with people who have gone through traumatic and life changing events.

Two, the experience is going to absolutely suck for Tim. Even when he creates new wings, it's not going to fix everything. They will probably cause him pain, the scars will hurt, he will be going through all the stages of grief rapidly and repeatedly, and they might malfunction. There will be days he destroys his wings in anger and despair. Sometimes, he won't leave his lab, won't get out of bed, or refuses to eat. He might get dysphoria or imposter syndrome, might lash out at loved ones, and will probably isolate. It will be a very rough transition for him.

Three, there might be social stigma against "fake" wings. Maybe it would ping the others' instincts wrong. They might struggle connecting with Tim before and after he gets the prosthetics. I would also imagine that Tim would need to implant a chip into his body/spine/brain (idk robotic prosthetic science) to have the wings work correctly. I doubt he would tell them before doing it.

Eventually, his family would rally to support Tim's choice for the fake wings. It's the dealer's choice on whether Timothy Drake is known for his fake wings or not. On one hand, Tim could be the face of WE's prosthetics department and providing support for people who have lost their wings (and he could address the lack of Cyborg rights currently in law [companies can reclaim prosthetics if you go bankrupt effectively taking a part of you]). On the other hand, it could address how people don't have to publicly embrace aspects of their identity. They are a person with unique experiences and don't need to fit themselves into boxes or become the poster child of a movement (it sucks, but sometimes embracing your identity means you get limited down to that subjective experience in how people see and identify you).

If the Waynes don't know about Tim getting his wings taken away and then replaced, that kind of reminds me of a fic I read where Tim's arm was replaced. He built it with YJ and his family didn't find out for years. I don't remember the name, but it was really good.

I haven't read that fic you mentioned, but now I'm excited to check it out ^^

[profounddestinyrebel]

I'd love Tim to be cloned by Ra's Al Ghul and just, have no idea. Ra's keeps it so secret not even Talia knows because he's paranoid that Tim will find out. I'd prefer the clone to be a girl, because Ra's is hella biased against women and he's totally underestimated a female Tim. Whether or not the clone has Tim's memories is up for debate but she does have his curiosity and sneakiness.

So Clone Tim (henceforth referred to as CT) finds out she was cloned because Ra's is obsessed with Tim after he blew up Ra's bases and survived Ra's personally trying to kill him. She is. Not happy. Here's where it can diverge. If CT has Tim's memories then she didn't need to find this out, but she has no one coming for her and is not sure of her welcome if she makes it away from Ra's. And it is an If. Without killing, her chances of winning any fight are low (with an unfamiliar body that hasn't been trained and no weapons) and she's probably not familiar with where she's currently being kept. So, she either chooses to escaping when she's finally left alone and try to signal for help or (and I like this one) she decides Ra's is an exception and she's not making it out of here without taking him out. He'll track her down and just take her back. Remember no one knows she exists, so no one is searching for her and many people would love to get their hands on a vulnerable Red Robin/Robin/Bat whether for info or revenge. So she kills Ra's, preferably without evidence, and then burns the body so one can put him in the Pit.

Or, CT does NOT have Tim's memories and finds out about Tim when she investigates. Now, I love feral Tim Drake AUs so much and I love the idea that young Tim was naturally just feral as a part of his personality. So CT, no memories would Absolutely take Ra's out. Children are taught morals by their families and by society. CT Would be taught that killing is good by Ra's (however long he's had her). I picture her at about 10-12 years old (she's probably only been alive for a couple moths to a year). She might or might not know about the Pits but would probably burn the body anyway to get rid of the evidence.

Now this is where it crosses into DP. CT has 2 choices (with and without Tim memories). She can either find someone to get her to the Bats or she can avoid them. I personally think that CT would avoid them. If she has Tim's memories then she knows Damian wants Tim dead. Would that extend to her? Not to mention Jason. CT probably wouldn't be willing to risk it, not with having broken the no kill rule as well. That's right, either way I think CT would have had to kill Ra's to escape. She doesn't really have the resources or allies to escape without killing him. If she doesn't have Tim's memories then all she knows is that she killed someone, and being a clone (made by Ra's Al Ghul nonetheless) is not will to risk going to the Bats for help.

Here's where it crosses into the DP universe. So CT is just traveling, exploring the world, when she runs into another girl doing the same thing. Maybe they both break into the same house. Maybe they both get into a fight. Maybe they literally one into another. But they decide to team up, after talking to each other. If you guessed Dani Phantom, you guessed correctly! Two blue-eyed, black-haired girls just sightseeing across the world. Together they get into twice the amount of trouble but also get out of it much easier with a partner. They bond over being clones made by evil rich men. Dani uses her invisibility to help them make a quick escape. CT would hack (without her memories I think she'd learn to do it as a necessity and to have something in common with her original) into evil people/organizations to find targets. The two of them, without any supervision? Would totally steal from and ruin anybody they thought deserved it. Also, researching interesting places on the internet and then just, going there.

I love the idea of these two just messing with any hero that comes after them. The panic that Tim would get into if he found out? Not to mention the rest of the Bats. How do track someone down if they can just go invisible and fly?

If someone wanted to add to this, that would be amazing!

[alien-slushie]

Another Maribat prompt! I tried to write this one but it wasn't working out for me 😭, so I thought I'd post the idea here so maybe someone would have better luck than me.

Another "Marinette is shipped off for BioDad!Bruce Wayne" storyline because I really like those ones, but with a little 💥flare~💥

Prompt: Because shes constantly getting in trouble Sabine and Tom send her to Bruce to straighten her out. Bruce read her school files but didn't look too deep because he didn't think a school would be so incompetent not to research bullying, and thievery claims, and he is not impressed. Right out of the gate, before Marinette can even enter the house, he lays down the rules. And of course he told the others, warning them so they wouldn't be swayed. So, there Marinette stands, in a unfamiliar country, in a unfamiliar house(manor), with unfamiliar people staring at her like shes a wild, unpredictable animal(they didn't even give her the decency of letting her prove herself) after her parents, friends, and school basically turned their backs on her, and something just snaps.

She was Marinette Cheng, upcoming fashion designer, and weilder of (and Gaurdian of) the Miraculous. If they wanted to treat her like a wild, unpredictable animal, fine then, she'd give them what they wanted! But it was well known that if you corner a injured animal, they will fight, and fight she does.

Marinette is coldly polite with them(except Alfred, Jason, and Seline who she happily greets, and chats with because they treat her normally), until they treat her badly, and then all gloves are off. And boy does she know how to hit them right where it hurts. They hurt her? Well shes going to hurt them right back.

Bruce watches her likes shes going to steal something from the manor when she just stopped to gaze at a picture? She loudly wonders what her 'grandparents' would think about the untrusting, emotionally shut off batchelor Bruce had become. Damian sneers at her while she sketches in the garden? Marinette gushes about how lucky she was that her parents had at least kept her around because they loved her instead of seeing her as a weapon for their own means. Dick suspiously questions where she got the money to afford 3 MDC originals? Marinette cant help but wonder what it feels like to be continuously replaced by stronger, smarter, and blood related siblings. Tim questions why she would take answers to a test when she could get high marks if she just tried after it's his turn to check her homework? Wow Marinette sure is glad she doesn't want any part of Wayne industries because she would hate to be used as a pack mule who's only use is to do the paperwork Bruce doesn't want to do.

But sometimes the injured animal, after fighting for so long, just can't fight back anymore, at which point they can either surrender, or run.

Bonus Points if: Marinette is the Black Cat and Gaurdian rather than the Ladybug, and Cat Woman + Marinette bonding both in and out of the suit.

A/N: You can change this in your rendition of this prompt, but I have a reason that Alfred, Jason, and Seline were spared. Alfred knows all and treats Marinette like he would anyone else, Jason is really carefree and can tell when someone is just trying to defend themselves(plus watching his families insecurities get poked at by a little girl is hilarious), and Seline warned Bruce not to go in guns blazing and recognized her defense mechanism for what it was as soon as she had seen Marinette's eyes during the first interaction between Bruce and Marinette(plus Seline + Marinette step mom and daughter bonding).

Like with all the prompts I post, this is free to use, but PLEASE send me the link to the finished project so I can check it out.

[andreal831]

Love all the meta's, they're the next best things to updates on your fanfictions!

My current question is, what do you think of the relationship between Davina and Elijah? And what direction would you have taken it in, if you were in charge of the originals?

First, I promise I will update soon!

Now, onto the question. I've always thought the relationship between Davina and Elijah was underrated and a little confusing.

Elijah is the first Original that Davina really meets. Even though Marcel is holding Elijah hostage thanks to Klaus, Elijah doesn't attempt to escape. He has multiple opportunities to escape but he never attempts to overpower her. Instead, he wants to talk and let her make her own decisions. Elijah always prefers diplomacy first if it can resolve their issues. This is incredibly important for Davina because no one has given her that power in her life, not even Marcel. Elijah allows her to take control of her own life by making a deal.

What I never understood about their relationship was where it went wrong. Elijah holds up to his end of the bargain and brings Davina pages of Esther's grimoire. Yes, he controls the first spell to save Hayley but then offers to let her pick the next. Elijah teams up with Marcel to protect Davina from Klaus, knowing he would do something reckless. He even feels guilty that he didn't anticipate Klaus targeting Tim. Davina takes out her anger over Tim's death on all three men. I always felt like her anger toward Elijah was a little unwarranted. At this point, he hadn't done anything against her. I think a lot of her anger at Elijah likely came from the writers wanting to create clear divides in the warring factions.

Their relationship after this clearly only gets worse, but again, a lot of it is simply Davina's anger at vampires in general as she and Elijah do not have a lot of contact. She is a teenage girl trying to find her place and being used by a lot of different people, so I don't necessarily blame either of them.

If I was in charge of The Originals, Elijah would have actually had storylines and connections that didn't revolve around Klaus. I would have loved to see Elijah play a more protective role in Davina's life, especially after Rebekah left town. Elijah was protective of Marcel as a child and we see him often wanting to save people he views as innocent (Elena, Marcel, Katerina). Elijah was initially protective of her, refusing to drink her blood when he was first released, trying to protect her from Klaus, being concerned when she disappeared. Davina's character was often used as a prop to further issues and the fact that she was a teenage girl who had lost her entire life was forgotten. I think this is partially because the show wants to age up characters so it's not creepy when they start dating super old vampires. But she was just a teenager and for the most part had no one helping her. Sure, Marcel, Vincent, and Cami would be there occasionally, but they would also abandon her for months and only pop back up when they needed something.

Elijah had a very paternal character. To me, he was the only Mikaelson that truly showed a desire to have children. It would have been nice to see him take Davina in and protect her rather than spending all of his energy on Klaus.

I hated how they often put Elijah in the position to make the hard decisions to save the Mikaelson family and Hope in the later seasons. Everyone loves to say Klaus would do anything to save Hope and will forgive his every action, including trying to kill Davina in Season 1. But as the show attempted to redeem Klaus, they still needed conflict, so they sacrificed Elijah's character. It's ironic because a lot of the things that, to me, seemed out of character for Elijah to do in Season 3 and 4 wouldn't have happened had Klaus not been so controlling of Elijah. All of this to say, if Elijah had been able to develop a better relationship with Marcel or Davina, I think he would have acted differently. Although, Elijah is pretty pragmatic and his family was running out of options.

Davina and Elijah have a lot in common and both deserved better from the writers.

Thanks for asking!

[imnotoverlyobsessive]

What do you think of the timothee chalamet SNL joke? Do you think it was in poor taste and just really bad timing or do you think it speaks to something deeper. I honestly no longer know what to think of him anymore. Dating Kylie Jenner and now being a part of a terrible SNL skit. Sure he didn't write it but he did agree to say it. I don't know part of me wants to believe the better in him but another part of me doesn't want to feel like an idiot if I am wrong.

Okay so I originally wasn’t gonna talk about this just because people are so reactionary with it and I’ve seen friends of mine get like death threats and shit, so I will preface this by saying the following:

1) I am not a Zionist, more on my beliefs in second. 2) I am a smut writer with various mental illnesses, please do not rely upon me as any sort of authority because I am a certifiable mess. 3) If anyone sends me hate, I will report you immediately. I’m not going to engage with it or respond to it; the only thing you will get from sending me hate is reported and blocked.

So I do think the joke was mostly a situation of bad timing. Something I’ve learned recently is that in other cultures, joking about this kind of thing is very much not done. That’s not the case here. In the US, we make those kinds of jokes all the time. This is the kind of joke you might see on, say, South Park. There is something to be said about the fact that the death is still happening, but, well… that hasn’t really stopped shows like South Park and Family Guy from making those kinds of jokes before, has it? But yeah, either way, it was bad timing.

Do I think Tim is a Zionist? No, I don’t. The beliefs of most Jews I’ve spoken to about this is basically, “yeah, Jews should be allowed in Israel if they want… and so should anybody else.” I think he likely has a similar viewpoint. I think he was given a line and he said it. The joke, I’d like to point out, was just, “Hamas is not an organization you’d want to associate yourself with publicly.” That’s it, that’s the whole joke. It wasn’t suggesting or implying that they (SNL) were pro-Israel, nothing like that. Just “Hamas is not an organization you’d want to associate yourself with publicly.” It didn’t mock anyone who had died or was suffering, it was just saying that you don’t wanna publicly associate yourself with Hamas. That’s it.

I was not remotely bothered by the joke when I saw it, honestly. It didn’t occur to me that people might be this upset by it until the next day. If anyone is so bothered by it they think Tim deserves hate, I think you should really dig deep and figure out where you being upset is rooted. Is you being upset about it just a reaction to what other people said? Did you feel that way upon first viewing? If so, I think you should ask yourself why. If you’re angry about what’s happening over there (and I think we all should be, because it’s horrifying), don’t misdirect that anger at some actor who only has a platform becauee we gave him one and whose opinion would otherwise be irrelevant. Direct it where it belongs: with the Israeli government.

Edit: also btw anyone who supports Hamas is gross and that includes the Israeli government

[fancyfade]

NGL I do love pre 2011 batfam all having such different internal motivation around killing (and if they agree it's never OK, the why it is not OK is different for people).

Like Bruce has rules that he tries to follow. these are for many reasons, some to keep himself in check, some because if the entire point of Batman is that no other family is torn apart him killing people is literally defeating that point, it reads as generally ideology based. and I think that Bruce's character traits in the 70s or 80s where even if he doesn't kill people he isn't super distraught if they die is kind of interesting and it's a shame the writers dropped it. tho IG it could also be character development. (should note: he also has accidentally killed people but doesn't blame himself for it in some 80s comics like son of the demon)

Cass's rhetoric is based on her compassion and perfectionism and just. it's wrong period. no one deserves to die, and since she always has to be perfect, she always has to be able to save everyone even people who are trying to kill her. i feel like even if there was a case where someone had to kill someone else in self defense, cass would never view that as acceptable for herself because she should always be able to solve everything perfectly.

babs is sometimes vocally anti-killing people but i think it's fucking fascinating that she is also shown as being willing to potentially kill someone pretty often (at least pre new 52 when they removed 95 percent of her personality). not wanting to be faced with the prospect of being a victim again, she lures thinker into a trap with the intention of killing him. even after she's gotten more solid footing, she still is willing to kill to protect other people (she starts getting ready to snipe black mask when she thinks he will kill someone who was working for her in no man's land, before helena as batman shows up) and she is willing to authorize huntress to use lethal force to protect tim.

and tim's rhetoric for not killing people is very 'becuase bruce said so'. no seriously like (link) his rhetoric for a lot of what he does as robin is based on following The Rules ™. who made the rules? Bruce. and if he breaks the rules he feels unworthy. it would've been cool if the writers had acknowledged this way they wrote him so he could develop his own moral code, but I'm not sure they did in what I read. generally bruce was right because he's batman, so tim following bruce's rules for the most part is tim being right. no need to think of it further

dick is very anti-murder in ntt because heroes don't do that ™ and he seems less so in later comics. like he beats himself up a ton for nearly beating the joker to death but in later nightwing issues he's fine with people getting hit by ricochet when they are shooting at him and it is unclear if he maybe causes this guy to get hit by lightning, which kills him (but he had to do it to save a baby). i guess like with tomasi's run on nightwing and late new earth continuity, he just seems in general unconcerned with the whole debate and like. he doesn't use lethal force b/c that's not what you do, but he also doesn't let himself get too concerned about it, and when he was in NTT it was very much just. those are the rules (like tim)

damian's rhetoric starts out opposite from everyone's because killing your enemies is just what you do. like not even out of malice if writers are keeping anything consistent from the original LoS/LoA goal it should be to save people/the world. and he evolves from there. post R:SoB, fter his character arc, he seems to be one of the more anti-killing members of the batfam, probably behind cass, and a lot of it is based in the belief in people to change and his own feeling of guilt and empathizing with the people they fight because! Why was I any different from them? (he does not accept that he was a kid as a reason for why he should be held less responsible). and it's not just a case of 'not killing people b/c they are like me' he often tries to get them to reform. cass does this too.

and you have helena who is portrayed in batfam comics as like. having a super high body count but its fucking hilarious if you read her solo b/c she really doesn't. and she does kill 2 people in her solo, a lot of the time it seems to be based on even if they are a bad person and by her rhetoric they deserve to die, how she is feeling when it is going down. like she was going to rescue one of the guys responsible for killing her parents before he said something indicating he was intending on using her or something that triggered her (I can't remember the exact dialogue) which like what an IDIOT. and she also killed a serial killer, but i believe she felt personally responsible for the serial killer since she had inadvertently provided him with the means to escape from prison and failed to stop him before. i feel like even if she goes in a situation thinking "I am definitely going to kill this guy" she does not always do it, and frequently she can lean to leniency barring external circumstances. but she doesn't consider herself as someone who considers killing automatically wrong, even though there isn't a ton of things different from her situation than from dick or babs's, both of whom who have either been ready to kill people or been unconcerned if people they were fighting died or both.

and then obviously you have jason who is very pro-murder (i'm only going w/ pre flashpoint continuity b/c that's the one i've read more of), who does not care if people who aren't 100% deserving to die by his standards are killed by him (he kills drug dealers w/o giving them a chance to follow his rules to intimidate people or b/c he has no need of them after consolidating his power, he poisons people he can't control who he is poisoning in prison, causing many people to die -- both of these written by winick, generally regarded as the 'good' pre FP jason writer), because he is acting from a place of trauma and pain but believes that if he can control crime correctly he can 'fix' things -- but his reasoning is very based on his own personal experiences and not in compassion for others, or at least the people he allegedly is helping are very abstract and not real for him. and like. it's an interesting character trait because LOTS of batfam members' motives aren't really even tied into compassion when talking about not killing (dick's aren't, tim's aren't, babs's aren't), and some also have their personal experiences highly motivating them (babs, cass, damian).

i realize that steph is not on here but she is also like. really changing based on the writer (so do the others, but her evolution felt harder to track). i feel like pre batgirl-ing, she definitely feels some people deserve to die and might kill someone in anger if they reminded her of her dad and no one stopped her. batgirling, her writing is different, the writer wants to portray her as a little 'softer', more based on hope, but the writer does not actually show us how she changed, which is frustrating.

anyway i just think they're all so interesting and i love them

[queseraone]

Okay, doing my worst.. rank all the main characters we’ve ever had on The Rookie! 😇

As you wish:

Tim Bradford — This man. From that very first episode, I was invested. The way I went from thinking he was the biggest asshole on the planet to just wanting to wrap him up in a big hug in a single episode?? LOVE. His journey has been spectacular, and I'm a total sucker for character development, which is the only reason I placed him ahead of Lucy (*ask me again in five minutes and they'll swap places)

Lucy Chen — How could anyone not adore her? (Seriously, how?? I've seen some negative takes and I just cannot fathom how anyone could think a single bad thing about her.) She's kind and compassionate, whip smart and a total badass. She deserves everything!!!!!

Nyla Harper — I love her, her take-no-shit attitude is amazing, and she's such a badass. She, too, has had so much growth since her debut, and I've loved seeing her go from "I don't care about anyone, I'm just here for the pay bump" to being an integral part of the team family.

Aaron Thorsen — I'll be honest, this one surprised me. I still remember how I initially disliked him, and now here I am ranking him close to the top of my list. He just adds so much fun to the show, and I particularly love seeing him play off of both Tim and Lucy.

Angela Lopez — My queen. She's sassy and witty, but has so much heart! And I basically live for her friendship with Tim. I really hope we'll see more from her character this season and beyond, because between her pregnancies and Elijah, we haven't seen nearly enough of what she's capable of!

Wade Grey — Listen, I'm nowhere near as invested in Grey as I am most of the others, but I still love him. He's like the Papa Bear of the show. He cares so deeply for his team (and the man sees everythiiiiiing).

Jackson West — I think Jackson is the most difficult one for me to place, in part because it feels like forever ago that he was part of the show, and also because I like him less upon rewatching as I did originally? Listen, I like the idea of Jackson more than Jackson himself a lot of the time. I absolutely adore the fanfic version of Jackson, but I think he fell short in a lot of ways on the show itself. Especially following DOD, I think he could have and should have been a better, more supportive friend to Lucy. And I've never loved his sort of holier-than-thou attitude. But his place in the original crew earns him a special place in my heart (and on this list), because his good moments definitely outweigh the bad ones. And the money I'd have paid to see him reacting to Chenford?? RIP.

Bailey Nune — Is she my favourite? Absolutely not (as evidenced by her place on this list lol). But I don't always understand the way people hate on her. She's definitely shoehorned into a lot of scenes/storylines, but that's not the character's fault. And I've enjoyed her more and more as we've seen some flaws in the "I'm a master at everything I do" façade. The episode where her college(?) friend visits and she's trying to keep up? Fun! When she thinks a coyote is a puppy? Love! Calling Lucy a badass? You go girl! I hope we continue to see her interacting more with the other characters, because they're doing Bailey/Jenna a massive disservice by not mixing it up more!

Wesley Evers — I really, really like him, but compared to so many characters that I absolutely adore, he has to fall toward the bottom of the list. Hate to say it, but he doesn't really add anything to the show (🙈)? Maybe we'll see more of that now that's working for the DA's office, but as of right now, I just don't get excited when I see him on my screen.

Celina Juarez — She's fun, and I enjoy her, don't get me wrong. But I just find her behaviour as a rookie jarring when I compare it to our original trio. Though to be fair, these are more reasons to dislike Nolan as a TO than faults of Celina herself...

Zoe Andersen — Did I love her? Yes, absolutely, she was fantastic! (And her death still wrecks me every single time!) But it feels unfair to rank her higher, simply because we only had her for a short time. I often think about how things would be different if she was still around. I think she'd be a fantastic mentor for Lucy in particular.

John Nolan — Look, this ranking doesn't mean I hate him. I don't. I actually like all of these characters, that's the beauty of this show for me. But of them all, I am the least invested in Nolan. Maybe that's a byproduct of how he's been written over the last few seasons - it's hard to care too much when you know that, no matter what happens, everything's going to work out perfectly for him, you know?

Talia Bishop — She had some good moments, don't get me wrong (I especially enjoyed her dynamic with Tim), but I just didn't get on board with her character like the others.

Thanks Pauli, this was super fun, you can keep the 😇 title... (I wonder what people would say if I put Nolan at the top of my list? 😂😂😂)

[yvtro]

imo the more interesting tim&jason dynamic /is/ the "they're only like 2 years apart" one (esp wrt "jason was tim's robin"? seems (to me) to have more potential if it's like "this kid who is my age is doing cool shit, I want to do cool shit like them, because they're my age and that hits close to home") personally am genuinely unsure why "tim is a poor little meow meow" seems to be more popular despite how it fucks both their characterizations lol

i will answer to both of you here, as it's related to the same post!

just in case i want to say that there's plenty of aspects of tim's storyline that have lots of potential. and there certainly could be an interesting one involving jason too. alas.

i think in general fanon tim is just a poor little meow meow. it's really ironic how when he was introduced, the writers wanted to make him more "likable" than jay, and they didn't want batman to play a full-time dad, so in place of jay's insecurity and need for parental love tim gets two living parents and is, for the most part, self-assured. there's some canon progression which disturbs this status quo of course, but it's fanon that turned his storyline into one about neglect.

so apparently all writers should have done to make the new robin a fan favourite was keeping jason's struggles and just making tim wealthy. real "what's cool when you're rich but trash when you're poor?" moment. having attachment issues, apparently.

and don't get me wrong, there is place for meta about tim's parents being neglectful, even if the creators originally wanted to achieve the opposite. but i find the extent to which fanon pushes this idea and makes it his sole source of personality a bit astonishing, especially that canon tim, for the most part, doesn't share any of these issues. and personally, his initial motivations that stem from his fascination with vigilantism seem much more appealing to me.

as you said: "this kid who is my age is doing cool shit, I want to do cool shit like them, because they're my age and that hits close to home." maybe it's a bit simplified, but tim being just a child who gets himself into something much bigger than himself without really realising the consequences – and essentially both traumatising himself as a result (while also finding family, one does not exclude another) is a pretty fascinating concept.

and like. canon tim is plenty weird about jason, okay. so i think their confrontation at some point would be interesting. and probably awkward.

btw we don't actually get to see jason and tim's first interactions after jay's resurrection. i said it before, but for christ's sake, the teen titans tower incident is no longer canon, and for a good reason, especially that in that era jason is portrayed as having a psychotic break and tim hates his guts and calls him deranged?

how do you derive an enemy to caretaker trope from this is beyond me tbh. it sounds good in theory, right, because it refers to jay's inherent kindness, but you do have to make them "enemies" in the first place, or at least jason the aggressor – which you need to follow the ableist storyline for (i really doubt jason would actually care about tim much if he was more stable, and he definitely wouldn't want to hurt him), and all i can ask is: why. find something new.

i don't know, if there's any actually interesting tim & jason fanfics that don't follow these cliches you should let me know, because the majority of the tag definitely isn't for me.