#and most of them more than likely not a tim comic either

[mamawasatesttube]

just looked at the tim//kon tag on incognito to see who posted that shit take abt bart and JESUS it is fucking NOXIOUS in there with all the people i have blocked. i need to bleach my computer and my fucking brain.

[hana-no-seiiki]

Hi! Could I be ✨Anon? (Im not sure whats been taken already) I've been on a big Batfam kick these past few days and have a v indulgent request if it interests you.

Could I request something for a (gn) civilian reader who is friends w/ the Batfam, but recently got superpowers that are magical girl-esque? Neither of the parties knowing of the others Alter Egos. Here are some of my thought, but write the post however you'd like.

Reader was accidentally caught up in some commotion that involved stealing specialty cargo. One of them being an alien artifact, and reader uses it in desperation to save themselves. But now they have these sparkely, pretty, and showy powers that they never asked for. (And maybe a magical animal companion that insist they bring light and justice to Gotham)

Reader is reluctant to be a vigilante, but keeps finding themselves in situations to help people anyways.(Maybe its a side effect of being a magical girl) They end up fighting alongside the Batfam at some point, but they feel embarrassed to interact w/ them. Reader feels completely out of place with their colorful and over-the-top powers when next to the cool and brooding batfam.

Sorry if this idea is a bit out there, but ty for letting me be indulgent in your ask box 💕!!

NO CAUSE I FEEL THIS DYNAMIC SO MUCH.

I either have the friendliest vibe or the bitchiest vibe and no in between. Meaning that people either come to me for everything or think I’m a snob/will bite-

and sure non! i don’t really keep track of my anons nowadays so people can be whatever as long as it’s not listed in my pinned

BAT X MAGIC ✨

IN ANY CASE

I’m gonna mix Sailor Moon, Miraculous Ladybug and Onimai for my inspo with this ask if you don’t mind

Magical Girl/Boy/Person! Reader is really close friends with Tim and Damian. If there was one thing all three could agree on it’s that they loved superheroes in manga/comics.

And Reader? Boy did they adore the Batfam. There was just something about their dark, brooding aesthetic that they couldn’t get enough of.

So it was a tad bit ironic that they stumbled upon the most “girly”and “bright” power ever known to Gotham.

It didn’t help that your abilities had to be activated with cutely yelling things like “Sparkle Blast!” or “Smile Hurricane!”

I like to headcannon that you have a familiar or Kwami like creature that in exchange of keeping your identity magically hidden, absolutely bullies you by making the one above a requirement.

I headcannon that Damian has the PHATTEST crush on you. Like even moreso than the stalker, otaku Tim. Like he is just head over heels. You’re strong, you’re capable, you’re adorable?? But that mostly extends to just your magic persona rather than your real self. He’s super obvious about it to anyone but you too (similar to the og miraculous ladybug w/ felix instead of chat).

Tim is more interested on who tf you were. Like yes!!! Magical Person Hero!!! You were basically his childhood crushes incarnate!! But his inquisitive mind really needed to know who you were in order to calm himself down.

Jason is honestly a bit overwhelmed by your whole getup, but grows to love you the most in terms of how kind you are and how you help them even in the most dire of situations (not knowing that you were basically forced to)

He’s very much Tuxedo Mask type wherein he’d be very annoying to you when the disguises are off but an absolute Casanova with em on.

You and Dick are the most close when it comes to patrols and fighting. I feel like you, being the big fan you were, would make him look even more flashy and handsome during battle with sparkles and whatnot. I have a feeling he’d be the first to ask you out or fully romance you, as well as be the first to befriend you/contact you as a vigilante.

Bruce is definitely perplexed by how you always evade him in terms of your secret identity. It frustrates him to no end that whenever he gets close to finding out something either gets in his way or his mind just goes blank.

Once you explain how your magical persona works tho he’s pretty quick on the bandwagon, especially since he sees that his boys love you.

Also cause you look way too adorable to really be heinous.

…Right?

Once you break one of your familiar’s rules though, they do share your identity with the bats and well…

All hell breaks loose.

[ian0key]

SAM/SASHA AND ALICE/TIM????

TMAGP ep 1-2 Spoilers!! (And TMA Spoilers!)

Do you realize how similar Alice and Sam are to Tim and Sasha?

Many of you talked about Alice being fun, carefree and the comic relief, like Tim in the first season.

But what happens if we look deeper? I start with Alice and Tim because I think they are the most obvious

-Alice does not have "professional respect" for either Gwen or Lena.

Just like what happened between Tim and Jon. But none of them go so far as to "completely disrespect them."(at least S1 Tim).

-Alice has a younger brother who she apparently cares a lot about, just like Tim was with Danny. Besides, (this is my theory), but the way they introduced Alice's brother, I get the feeling that his fate won't be very different from poor Danny's.

-They know more than they say, Alice clearly knows more than she tells Sam,Alice has been working for the government for at least 4 years, and the only time she acted seriously was to tell Sam that he shouldn't get too involved in the cases, because she saw people go crazy because of it.

Something similar happened with Tim in the first seasons, he knew that the Fears were real, he knew things about the stranger, he was looking for revenge..

And now on to the similarities between Sam and Sasha.

-They were both overqualified for their position, Lena told Sam that the job he applied for was too low for his level, but he didn't care,on the other hand ,Sasha must have been The Archivist, Gerdtrud knew this, that's why her warning notes were made for her, but Elias found out after Killing Gerdtrud and left Sasha as assistant and put Jon as The Archivist..

-Sam is calm, he follows Alice's games but is professional towards his colleagues, Just like the little we saw of Sasha, She treated Jon quite well even though at the time Jon was a bit... very Shitty.

That's why Jon trusted her so much.

-Curiosity , Sam asked a lot of questions throughout the first 2 chapters, and when he didn't get answers he started investigating on his own. When Sasha met Michael, she wanted answer,without caring about the danger.

Also, That could have been a foreshadowing that Sam will be connected to the Eye of this reality???.

- Both of their names start with "SA" but that's not very important /j

And finally, we analyze Alice and Sam as a duo and the parallels they have with Tim and Sasha.The two of them complement each other perfectly, they play each other's games and we feel their connection.

Besides Alice and Sam are exes (although I think it's more of a reference to Georgie and Jon) Sasha and Tim always had an "almost something?????".like we heard in the fifth season..

I don't know, at some point I felt like I was listening to the reincarnations of the chaotic Archives duo , you know what I mean?

(English is not my first language, please let me know if I have any spelling mistakes🙏)

[cloakedsparrow]

Bat Family 'Bruce is Tim's biological parent' AU Idea #1

Wherein Jack Drake: a) Regularly tags along on archaeological digs despite not being an archaeologist. b) Commonly smuggles home archaeological finds despite that not being legal. c) Does not believe in curses, hauntings, or any mythology despite the world that he lives in being populated with *gestures at comics* all that.

As a result, Jack is like a magnet for cursed objects and keeps smuggling the damned things home.

The first time little Timmy suspects this is happening, he knows his dad won't respond well to him suggesting the most recent package he sent home is haunted. He knows he'll respond even worse if he tries to get anyone else involved. So he sends his mom a private email explaining what's going on. Janet replies that he's right to be suspicious, that this has absolutely happened before, and that he was right to contact her. She tells him she's sending over a friend who can help and gives him a password that she'll tell the friend so he knows it's okay to let him in the house.

John Constantine shows up within the hour. Tim is certain he didn't drive there (the alert that someone passed through the gates never went off and no one put in a code to open them) but there is a cursed object in his house and John knew the password Janet gave him, so he's mostly just happy to have an adult there to handle the situation. Even if a somewhat bizarre adult.

John takes care of the cursed object and is impressed that Tim reacted to it much faster than most do. He gives Tim his card with instructions to call him if anything like what was happening starts to happen again or if anything else weird starts happening after his father has been to any digs or sent home any strange packages.

As Jack is the aforementioned cursed object magnet, Tim ends up calling John fairly often for someone who doesn't actively work with the occult and is, in fact, a child. John keeps praising him for catching on as quick as he does and giving him information to catch onto other types of mystical/magical wickedness. Tim gets really good at recognizing when magic/curses/spirits are at play.

Then, Janet dies and Jack goes into a coma. Tim is fostered by Bruce for a year and a half and doesn't have to worry about curses or haunted objects for all that time. When they do come across something of the occult, Bruce/Batman has his own contacts, so there was never a reason for Tim to bring any of it up.

Then, the events of Identity Crisis/Crisis of Conscience occur, and Bruce doesn't want to talk to Zatanna (his usual mystic go-to) if it can be helped. He doesn't want to call in anyone connected to most of the Justice League if it can be helped.

So when they come across a cursed object, Tim immediately identifies it and tells Bruce not to worry, he knows a guy who can handle it. The man knows his civilian identity, so they'll have to pretend Bruce bought the object as part of an action or estate sale lot.

John comes and handles it. Before he leaves he comments that he's glad Tim's biological father finally decided to step up and that Bruce better take good care of the boy.

When Tim explains that Bruce isn't his father, the look on John's face clearly shows that he's trying to figure out how to back-step, but not in the expected way. More in the 'I let on information i wasn't supposed to' way.

Which is how Bruce and Tim end up running a paternity test in the Cave at four am.

Alfred and Dick are delighted by the results.

[Alternative ending: John pulls Bruce aside to let him know that Janet told him Jack wasn't Tim's father and that both he and Bruce were on the short list and he hadn't known Jack died or he'd have contacted him already. They have to wait to find out which of them is the lucky one. Either Bruce turns out to be the father and John just lets Tim know he can still call him whenever needed or it turns out John is the father and they decide Tim should still stay with Bruce but John has visitations. Also, Tim might have been showing signs of his Homo Magi heritage when he recognized all these cursed objects. John insists on teaching him to use his magic despite Bruce's unease with it.]

[phoenixkaptain]

The comics always have Tim comment on how normal his childhood was, and I just don’t believe them.

Like, the name “Drake” was set up in comics for years beforehand. Tim Drake is a rich kid. His parents did own an entire industry and Tim’s introductory comic tells us flat out that he spends most of the time his parents aren’t home at boarding and private schools. His parents were gone a lot!

Tim Drake is stated to be so normal. This kid can still clearly remember watching Dick’s parents die, he was traumatized and had nightmares about the scene. Especially if you believe Tim’s never taken a picture of Batman before the events of his introduction, Tim is extra strange because why was his first instinct to take pictures of Batman getting beaten up?! Is that normal child behaviour?? Am I the weird one for not knowing where Dick Grayson’s girlfriend lived when I was thirteen?? How on earth is Tim Drake the normal one?

He’s a stilted talker, absolutely terrible at speaking about important things. He is the Robin who called the most alike to Batman more than once, Ra’s al Ghul calls him a detective on Batman’s level, are you REALLY normal if you’re similar to Batman??

Like yeah, sure. Tim didn’t grow up in a circus. Tim didn’t grow up raised on the streets. Tim wasn’t trained from birth to be an assassin.

I would argue that this makes him MORE abnormal! He doesn’t have Dick’s background or flexibility! He doesn’t have either of Jason’s backgrounds nor his grudge. He doesn’t have Batman to live up to for a father. And yet, he still decides to put his life on the line to fight crime! His parents weren’t even dead!! He just decided that “If Batman and Nightwing aren’t going to take care of themselves, I have no choice but to do it for them.” Sure, he tries to get Dick to help Bruce, but he realizes pretty quickly that that isn’t going to work out.

Tim Drake tried to fight Superboy. You know, Superman’s clone? Invulnerable? Boy of steel? Literally only had one weakness that Tim didn’t have on him at the time??

Tim Drake is absolutely not the normal Robin. The comics really, really want me to believe that the kid who grew up in boarding school while his parents were off on business, the kid who took to being a Robin akin to Batman (ie. invisible, unnoticeable, unknown, a myth), the kid who got beat up by Jason Todd and then went “whoa, Jason Todd is back :),” the kid who Ra’s al Ghul is obsessed with, the kid who built his own vehicle; this kid is normal.

Yeah, okay. He’s perfectly normal. His dad being hinted at as being neglectful and literally abusive with how he breaks his kid’s things? Normal. Tim Drake knowing how to photograph the most paranoid man this side of the Rockies? Normal. Tim Drake deciding that it would actually be neat-o to don a suit that another kid died in to fight against people and beings that could and would absolutely kill him in a heartbeat? Completely. Normal.

Okay, DC. Whatever you say…

[gffa]

You know what?  I’m not picking a side in this because I get where each of these characters is coming from.  None of them are right and none of them are wrong. Tim has had his entire life burned down again, so many people he loved are dead, and it feels like this is salt in the wound, that he’s being stripped of Robin when he needs it most. Damian is a child who is saying viciously hurtful things, but he thinks he has to fight for his place in anything, he thinks he has to destroy anyone who might come for what he has, he has to destroy Drake to secure a place for himself, because that’s what he’s been taught.  Dick is the only person who has shown him anything stable in this place, of course he’s going to fight with everything he has, he’ll cut open anyone who comes at him, because that’s what’s been hammered into him since he was born. And Dick's coming at this from his own experiences--he says right there that Tim is his ally, his equal, Dick’s not his mentor.  Dick is asking for someone to help him, not be someone else he has to take care of, because when is it Dick’s turn to mourn his father’s loss, too?  When is it Dick’s turn to mourn that he’s been forced to put on the cape and cowl that he hates wearing?  When is it Dick’s turn to have someone acknowledge that he had to give up his entire life to pick up Bruce’s?  And what is he supposed to do, when he’s trying to hold everything together because everyone else is pulling things apart? Tim’s at the age (and possibly older) than when Dick knew he himself needed to become his own person, to step up into a role that was uniquely his--and I don’t think he’s wrong about Tim being ready for that, either.  Tim is traveling around the world as Red Robin here, he’s doing his own thing, he’s doing his own investigations, Tim is ready to be his own superhero, not the role of Robin. Tim’s holding onto this for what feels like less because he needs the role of Robin specifically, Batman’s protege, and more because he wants to hold onto something familiar.  I keep thinking of that scene in Adventure Comics where he tells Kon about how he tried to clone him, that he knew it wouldn’t be his Kon, but at least it would have been something.  This feels similar, in a lot of ways. Tim wants the familiar, he feels like he’s losing everything he loved, and he just wants something, regardless of whether or not it was the true thing that he was actually longing for.  That’s why he can’t have any sympathy for an eleven year old child who needs a lifeline.  That’s why he can’t see that Dick needs help, rather than help from Dick.  Because Tim’s losses are mounting too fast and too high and it’s ripping him apart. They’re all just barely holding on by their fingertips and have so little left over to give each other, Dick doesn’t have time to be gentle with Tim, Damian doesn’t have the emotional tools to be gentle with anyone, Tim doesn’t have the emotional resources to do more than just make it through the day, they’re all a mess, they’re all not right and they’re all not wrong.

[mysterycitrus]

the way you write the relationships the batfam have with each other is so delicious to me like AUGHH YOUR BRAIN!!! it’s so good. if you were willing, i'd love to hear more of your thoughts on the relationship cass and jason have / steph and jason (staring at you with my big wet eyes)

i havent read much from any of the characters and have seen large parts of fandom say that they would all get along/they’d be so close/besties, so the ideas i’ve read in your works (wolf king and persephone) are very interesting!!

to put it bluntly — i think they’d fucking hate him.

part of that is, weirdly, people tend to devalue tim’s relationships with steph and cass. like, steph and tim have never been normal about each other. cass and tim spent most of the nineties and early aughts jumping back and forth to each other’s comics. in what world would either of them be chill with the guy who hurt him (and damian) like that?

it also flattens cass’s ideology and steph’s history with bruce’s mission. cass has struggled with engaging with murderers because she’s sees them as herself, and their actions as her own actions. she is reflected in each of them, but she ultimately values life above all else which is why her personal connection to the bat is so interesting. she would not have sympathy or time for jason todd, someone who uses bruce’s mission to hurt others, to take lives, and attack the people she loves. like…. please be serious. she would not be hanging out w the person who was happy when bludhaven got nuked.

same deal with steph— something that really annoys me is when people act as though the “bad robin club” would be a bonding moment between steph and jason. not just because steph has a more developed comic run than jason has, with legitimate obstacles to her getting recognised as a hero, but also because again, this guy is doing the same shit as her dad. why would she like him after he went after tim multiple times? whenever someone draws this comparison i think of this page —

the fact that steph values bruce’s mission, his views on taking a life, despite being at such a profound low point is really important. i can’t believe she’d look at jason and think him admirable.

however!!!! that doesn’t mean their interactions (when reasonably in character imo) can’t be interesting!! having cass and jason interact in persephone was a lot of fun, because making him interact with someone other than bruce or dick puts him off balance. peoples fear of complex relationships with legitimate stakes makes me sad. neither cass or steph have that history with him before death, or that same image of him as a memorial, and it’s a fun thing to explore. specifically this passage from wolf-king —

like yeah!! neither of them would fuck with him!!! let him be the unpopular brother!!

[galaxymagitech]

Batfam Kill Counts

I believe that the kill counts for the Batfam are in the following order: 1. Jason (~500); 2. Tim (100-300); 3. Alfred (20-100); 4. Damian (~50); 5. Bruce (5-10); 6. Dick (1-5); 7. Cass (1)

However, based on the absolute certain facts and not just speculation, kill counts are as follows, I believe: 1. Jason (83 confirmed); 2. Alfred (many); 3. Damian (3+); 4&5. Cass & Bruce (1); 6. Dick (1-ish); 7. Everyone else (0)

These aren’t counting vampires or pre-crisis early Batman characterization. I have probably missed some stuff because I have only read some comics, but from what I’ve read and Google this is my general understanding.

Reasoning explained:

1. Jason — Jason has 83 confirmed kills, but honestly I don’t buy that he hasn’t killed more than that. I’m interpreting “confirmed” as in “we have absolute proof that the Red Hood killed them” whereas his actual kill count is much higher. I headcanon it as somewhere around 500 people, but the number could be in the thousands.

2. Tim — This one’s controversial…I personally think Tim killed people when blowing up the League of Assassins bases, but not nearly as many as people often say. He definitely blew up the bases BY blowing up their computer systems, and there are explosions shown. Probably around 100-300 people, as a side effect and not the goal.

3. Alfred — Served in the military, but people SEVERELY overestimate the number of kills a soldier would have from that, especially as he presumably wasn’t dropping bombs. In WWII estimates for average number of kills per soldier range from 5-20. Alfred was likely exceptional, but I doubt that he killed more than 100 people. He may actually be #4 on this list, with fewer kills than Damian.

4. Damian — Confirmed kills are Spook and Nobody, and he did those so easily that he has DEFINITELY killed routinely, but again, I think people attribute far more kills to him than he actually has done. He was raised in the League of Assassins, but they don’t just kill willy-nilly. He’s probably killed <10 people to prove he’s capable of it and <100 people (maybe even 0) for the League. Overall, I don’t buy that Damian has killed more than 60 people.

5. Bruce — I think he has accidentally killed a significant number of people. This one’s also controversial, but his methods are brutal and he’s been working for a long time. It’s likely that he’s done enough damage that the criminal dies in the hospital multiple times. He’s also done things like leaving KGBeast to die trapped underground or bleeding out unable to move in the tundra by his hand. I don’t think he’s watched someone die by his hands, but…yeah. He has also killed Darkseid for sure.

6. Dick — Killed Joker (who was revived soon afterwards, so it half-counts), has also worked with Batman so long that I think he has killed other people by accident too. Has also displayed disregard for if his actions result in a criminal being killed by other criminals, especially early on in Nightwing (1996). Considers himself to have killed Blockbuster, but…yeah no.

7. Cass — 1 confirmed kill. After that, she ran and put in a large amount of effort to avoid killing ever again. She became evil, but I’m pretty sure this has been unwritten and most people refuse to accept it anyway.

To my knowledge, Steph, Barbara, and Duke haven’t killed anyone, and likely have not accidentally killed anyone either due to their methods.

Of course, feel free to disagree!

[bitterrobin]

I see a lot of confusion on why calling Damian Wayne "feral" is racist/problematic, so here's a rundown.

There's a difference between calling your child or your younger sibling "feral" and calling a character like Damian "feral." You know your child/sibling/niece/nephew etc. They're real people, and unless they have a problem with it personally, then there's nothing wrong with calling them feral as a joke. It doesn't (shouldn't) affect their perceptions by other people. It doesn't become a label that follows them.

Damian al Ghul-Wayne is a fictional character. A canonically mixed Arab/Chinese/Jewish White character with a history connected to some of the most prominent Arab comic book characters, who themselves also get insanely mischaracterized.

He's constantly whitewashed. He's been written with racist undertones (the suicide bomber vest). He's had his character development and progress backtracked time and time again by DC. DC treats him weirdly most days and completely shitty in the worst stories.

A good majority of fanon hasn't done any better than DC. You cannot pat yourselves on the back for being more inclusive or mental health aware than DC when you call a mixed Arab/Chinese boy "feral". It's constant. You can come up with various titles and nuances for every Bat-character, for every Robin.

Tim can be smart, a skater, a genius, the one holding everyone together, the little brother, the one who needs love. Jason can be cool, morally "right" or "wrong", unstable, PTSD-stricken, the one who was betrayed, the one with Shakespearean tragedies. Dick can be fun, happy, the first one, the prodigal son, the one with complicated history and the big brother.

You give them room for exploration. Love and care and attention and research. Many headcanons. You either comply with canon or you don't, but there's substance to their character.

What does Damian get? He's feral. He's rabid. He's a gremlin. He can't be reasoned with. He has no self-control, he's impulsive. He's hurt others, and you can't forgive it. Sometimes he's homophobic. Or classist. Or plain mean and rude to your favorite boy. He's always carrying a sword. A psychopath with no regard for another's well-being (usually Tim in a lot of fics). He can't be taught what's right.

I've seen people cry that Damian needs to punished or kicked out or treated the same way he's treated others. He needs to be brutalized or talked down to. He can never grow as a person, because he's mean to Tim or Jason, and you need him to exist as the abuser. His first move is always violent.

Fanon compares him to an animal often; he bites, claws, hisses, growls. Bruce or Dick or Jason or Tim have to wrangle him, tame him, civilize him the white man's way in lieu of his brown mother and grandfather who "clearly" raised him wrong. You don't see the issue with that? The issue with always labeling one of the few major brown characters in Batman comics as the unreasonable animal? That the child of color is always the abuser, the instigator, to older characters?

And even if you don't see him this way, you don't write him this way - then are you giving him the care and attention you give for other Bat characters?

Do you know anything else about him other than his "anger"? Because he isn't always angry. In fact, he's typically well-mannered. Quiet even, when he's not being provoked. DC's writing will always vary but whenever Damian lashes out, he's usually written with a reason to act the way he does.

Are you making him intelligent like he should be? A hard believer in redemption? A neglected and abused child who isn't meek or crying or closes himself within? Are you willing to explore that he's always exhibited the "wrong" kind of trauma responses - lashing out, being snippy, ruining relationships, refusing to admit weakness?

Do you write anything about him without making his mother and grandfather comically abusive and violent? Will you give him the supporting cast/friends he actually has? Can you write his dad/siblings interacting with him without making them white saviors or therapy pets? Can you write him without a ship or his love for animals or being vegetarian overshadowing everything?

Is he a character to you at all other than a glorified plot device with a sharp tongue and the convenience of being violent?

[distort-opia]

Could you maybe explain to me what exactly Jason's problem with Bruce was/is when he came back?

Maybe I'm being stupid but I don't know. Like, I know there's this space between Jason's resurrection and Talia finding him... and Jason returing for a sec to kill Bruce, then changing his mind, and went back to Talia to plan The Ultimatum and travel the world a bit.

I went off the assumption that Jason thought Bruce didn't care enough for him to kill the Joker and then the whole stupid thing with the batarang to the neck after everyone thought Dick died.

But, like, Jason kind of destroyed his relationship with the batfam himself with the whole coming out of nowhere and trying to hurt/traumatize/kill them. I don't mean to hate on Jason specifically, I just don't get him on a fundamental level.

Would really appreciate if somebody could clear that up, I'm kind of desperate. Like I have most of the facts but it seems like a jigzaw puzzle with too many pieces and I can't make sense of it.

To be honest, I don't understand your confusion fully? You pretty much explained it yourself, why Jason was angry at Bruce after he came back. Even Judd Winick, the writer of Under the Red Hood, says it very concisely (in this interview):

When it comes to Jason's relationships with the Batfam, I'll once again let Winick explain his vision (transcription of a podcast episode to be found here):

You say that Jason harmed his relationship with the Batfam himself as if Jason's intention had been to have good relationships with them. At the times he went after Tim or Dick or Damian, I don't think he cared much about that, hah. Most of his choices at the time could be boiled down to "What would piss off Bruce the most, either directly or by proxy?"... and also, "What would get Bruce's attention the most?". Because that's what made it complicated, right. Jason wouldn't have gone to these extremes if he didn't care about Bruce.

As to things not making sense... you're not being stupid, I'm sorry to say that at least to me, it's impossible to reconcile all of Jason's actions within a coherent character. Just because he was written by different people in different continuities with very different goals (though maybe more accurately, by some writers lacking a goal, as in not really knowing what to do with him). This is true for most comic book characters, not just Jason; true consistency is a pipe dream when the history of a character spans decades. Keeping that in mind, my personal approach is forming an idea of the original core traits of a character (which is why I gave examples of what Winick himself said), and then filtering their subsequent portrayals through that. Some comics will be horribly OOC despite them technically being canon and you simply have to go the "I recognize that the Council has made a decision, but given that it's a stupid-ass decision I've elected to ignore it" route. Then there's, of course, your personal preferences; you can choose what is canon to you because you like it, and form your idea of a character around those instances-- though here I'd always warn to never stop being aware that it's your idea of the character. There is no absolute truth, and we're all playing in a sandbox. Other people will choose other instances of canon, or try to reconcile all of them somehow, and your ideas might not jive. That's perfectly fine.

That being said, while I do like Jason a lot, he isn't my full-time blorbo, so I'm sure other Jason scholars could respond to this much better than I did! If anyone wants to add more in-depth answers, please do.

[modernday-orpheus]

Okay, hear me out. If Tim idolized Batman instead of Robin, Bruce would be dead.

Disclaimer: I am not perfect and don't know everything there is to know about comics! Some shit here may be accidentally based on fanon rather than canon! Please be nice!

Tim, of course, respects and looks up to Batman. Bruce is his mentor and his father, so it's safe to assume he loves him as well. But his Hero™ is and always has been Robin, Dick at first but especially Jason judging by the timeline. Most people in Gotham view Robin as an addendum, an extra, nothing more than a kid sidekick. They’re disappointed if her shows up without Batman, and question his abilities. Tim’s hero worship combined with his knowledge of their identities, in this case, allows him to see things as they truly are. For Tim, Robin is a light in the dark, a balancing act with Batman, not his sidekick but his partner. He’s a necessary part of the Dynamic Duo because while Batman represents Justice, Robin represents this Hope for a better future. Sure, he’s just a kid; by all accounts he shouldn’t even be out there fighting, but maybe, if he is, no other kids won’t have to fight as hard just to survive. He represents the soul of Gotham, underneath the criminality and corruption; a city full of people, tough-as-nails, saying “No, fuck you, this is our city” despite the constant danger. He represents the people who come together in times of crisis, who help out their neighbors when each new disaster strikes. He’s trained in martial arts, of course, and he’s a skilled fighter, but Robin’s primary job is always the safety of civilians. He’s the one that gets scared little kids out of a burning building while Batman keeps the villain of the week busy, the one who stays behind with SA victims walks them home because Batman is too much for those things. He uses fear where Robin uses kindness, compassion, and love.

Tim sees this. So, when Robin dies and Batman is getting rougher, more violent, more careless, he notices. He notices that Bruce is picking bigger fights than he can handle, taking hits he could dodge, breaking four ribs instead of two, barely making it back to the manor each night. If he idolized Bruce, at this point, he would trust him the way the rest of Gotham does. He would assume it was a rough patch, and Bruce would recover, and that Batman would always save the day. He would see a solitary hero, the way Batman wants to be seen. He wouldn’t think it necessary to reach out to Dick for help, and even if he did he would think Nightwing would be enough help. He wouldn’t understand the importance of the Robin mantle, the specific role that needs to be filled. Nightwing can represent a lot of things; fluidity, positive change, and freedom come to mind immediately, but there's no world where Nightwing represents Gotham and Hope the same way Robin does. He can’t serve the same purpose anymore, not in that uniform. Bruce would die at Two-Face’s hands in that very first arc, I have not a single doubt in my mind.

Then, as Tim comes back to Gotham post-training and actually starts to help out, it’s common for him to be the conscience. He falls easily into the role of Robin, the role that makes him protector of the innocent. He’s not like Jason, raised by these streets in a very different way, though I wouldn’t say either is better or worse. Where Jason struggled and had to fight, out there each night pre-Bruce out of necessity rather than choice. He knows all the best hiding spots and back-alleys because it kept him alive. He chooses to be Robin because he needed a hero and wants to be that for other people. Tim chose those streets, and he chose them for Robin. He knows the best hiding spots because they put him closer to the action, because he raised himself on all those cold nights alone on rooftops with his camera. He knows the back-alleys because they made him faster, made it so his little kid legs could keep up with his hero so he wouldn’t miss a moment. He lives for Gotham nights, for the thrill of seeing everything, getting to know everything. He chooses to be Robin because where his parents failed to teach him how to be a good person, Robin stepped up. He bases his morals off of watching Robin help people, and because he’s a kid he assumes that it’s normal to behave with altruistic intentions and prioritize others.

There’s a point to be made here, briefly, about how this lends itself to Tim’s self-worth issues and insecurities. If his job is to assist, supplement, guide, and fill in the blanks when Batman fails, he doesn’t have the option of failure. He expects that how he does his job, as long as the job gets done, doesn’t matter because he doesn’t view himself as the hero. He never views himself as a main character in his own story; he truly thinks he’s doing what anyone else in his position would gladly do. This is why he overworks himself, why he’s known for living, for lack of a better term “like a goddamn ninja turtle”. It’s why he’s always Robin or Red Robin or even his public persona Timothy Drake-Wayne but rarely Just Tim. Very few people get to see Just Tim, normal Tim, because if they’re seeing that then he’s not doing his job.

All of these factors lead to Tim’s conclusion that if no one else can get Batman out of this state, least of all Batman himself, of course the next logical conclusion is that it’s his responsibility to step up and do the job. Furthermore, it’s only because he idolized Robin that he can fill the role properly because his relationship to Bruce, especially in the beginning, is nothing like Dick and Jason’s relationships with Bruce. He’s not his kid, doesn’t bring Robin’s joy and hope home, so instead he has to work twice as hard in the field to keep Bruce away from the edge. He’s the first of the Robins to view himself as Batman’s protector rather than the other way around, and he’s the only one who Bruce acknowledges when he tries to fill that role. Bruce accepts it when Tim manages him, reorganizes his files, forces him into the medbay, even when he very occasionally goes as far as to outright scold him rather than just pressure him to make the right choices. He’s given an inch and takes a mile, because he believes (rightfully, in my opinion) that if he doesn't then all hope is lost. And Bruce allows him to help, to guide, as much as he’s willing to because he’s not his kid first. He’s Robin first.

This mentality carries over to the Red Robin arc, where Tim spends an entire year chasing after Bruce to save him. He does it alone, and although he asks for help he doesn’t actually expect it. Furthermore, because his morals are based off of Robin in his infinite altruism rather than Batman with his rigid rules, he doesn’t mind working with Ra’s al Ghul. He doesn’t mind betraying Ra’s by killing his men, by blowing up his bases. He doesn’t tell Bruce about it to protect Bruce from having another murderer under his roof, and because he doesn’t think it matters enough. Bruce isn’t surprised when Tim is the one to save him. I believe he would have been if any other Robin had shown up. He and Dick have had a strained relationship for years, he and Jason aren’t even on speaking terms, Stephanie was so often full of rage at him throughout her run as Robin and is dead at the time, and he doesn’t even really have a relationship with Damian. Aside from all of that, he’s assumed dead. He can’t assume the Justice League will spend their time saving a dead man. And yet, despite all of that, he isn’t surprised when Tim is the one to pull him out of the time stream. He’s disoriented, sure, and a little surprised it was possible for him to be saved at all, and he even wants to hear about how he figured it out, but his doubt is never placed on the fact that Tim would be the one to understand and tear the world apart to bring him home.

I believe this also helps to explain Tim’s struggle with letting go of the Robin mantle, outside of the fact that he was the first to have the choice to move on taken away from him. If he’s always been Robin first, always felt the weight of that on his shoulders, what is he supposed to do when his very identity is stripped away right as he loses everyone who got to really know him as Just Tim? How is he supposed to cope with having to reconstruct his own idea of who he is with no one around to remind him? Humans are social creatures. We learn and grow with and because of each other. He’s encouraged by Dick to grow quickly out of Robin to fill a new role, which is a nice sentiment from Dick’s own point of view, but he’s lacking a sturdy foundation. Not because it’s not actually there, or because he lacks personality or morals, but because he truly views himself and all of his good decisions as just what anybody would do and what Robin is supposed to do. He doesn’t consider that following these morals makes them his, makes them the building blocks for wherever he goes next, he considers them to be traits of a character he no longer plays; a purpose he no longer serves.

(This is the second time I've posted this, so if you see another version that's why!)

[zahri-melitor]

Okay, I just finished The Victim Syndicate in Detective Comics #943-947, and I was struck by a few things when reading this storyline.

I've heard people claim that Steph is not particularly well-written by James Tynion IV. I'm not actually sure that's the case. What I think the major complaint might actually be is "Steph's characterisation in Tynion's 'Tec does not match Batgirl 2009" in terms of what I've read so far.

Because what I saw on the page? That characterisation looked an awful lot like pre-War Games characterisation of Stephanie Brown. In fact, I'd take a gamble and say it's the most in-character writing for Steph I've read since 2004 where 'in-character' means in accord with what the Bat Bible under Dennis O'Neil had for Steph. (And whatever you want to say about Batgirl 2009, it is undoubtedly true that it departs from pre-2004 characterisation for a number of Doylist reasons, due to the multitude of out-of-book issues).

Steph's relationships with Harper and Cass from Batman Eternal and Batman & Robin Eternal and Batgirl 2011 are preserved.

She’s written as stubborn and determined and angry and raging at a wrong she sees. She IS very wrapped up in Tim but to her eye her BOYFRIEND JUST DIED, and Steph's always been fairly obsessive about Tim and measured herself against him, going all the way back to their first meeting. So many of her actions over the years have either been to spite her father, or to get a reaction from Tim.

And she gets her hands on Tim’s protocols from a program Tim wrote and then uses them on her allies, a classic Spoiler move where she's disrupting an authority-figure's plan (in this case Batman) as she doesn't feel she's being listened to, with a move that is reminiscent of you guessed it, the lead into War Games.

Like that SURE IS some Stephanie Brown like behaviour. Mad at Bruce and yelling at him. Feeling hurt and doing something inadvised with specialised information. Determined that SHE knows better than people with more training and experience than she has.

I dunno. It feels like pretty in-character Steph to me. And circular "Steph gets told she's not good enough, Steph tries to prove herself, Steph screws up, repeat" is a classic, CLASSIC storyline for her all the way back to her first appearance.

And here what is happening? Bruce is telling her to take a break due to her emotions over Tim, the situation goes wrong and Steph steps in to help anyway as she's there, Steph gets benched, Steph STILL gets called in after a villain shows up to talk to her, Steph thinks she knows better than everyone else and arrives with a threat in hand to try resolve the situation, including using PROTOCOLS on ALLIES, Steph gets people to stand down but ends up hurt and told off.

...That's a Steph story. That's always been the shape of a Steph story and the sort of actions she takes.

[insertcoolusernamehereee]

The inheriting games (What do the batfamily inherit)

Duke:-

-*Now, who gets Wayne Enterprises? Well the most common (and boring) answer is Tim, which? I understand, it even said in a comic book that his name is on the paper, but if Tim wants to run a company, he can take Drake enterprises!

-*And Duke is so smart! He was solving Riddlers riddles in 7th GRADE! And, he just feels like the type of guy to be able to run a business nicely! He’d be able to separate enough funds for the Justice League easily!

-*At first, the idea of running a company (With Luscious Fox obviously) is daunting, but after a few months, Duke realises how much he loves it. The routine, the ability to help people even without the mask on? It was exhilarating.

Jason:-

-*Jason inherits the Mansion.

-*I hear you! Why in the world would JASON inherit the mansion? Well, Jason was raised in the streets. He knows best what it’s like not to have a proper place to sleep. I feel like, Jason would make the mansion a place for wandering heroes/people to stop by.

-*Like all his friends would come over sometimes, or any hero who needs a break/place to rest. Or it’s just a place for family to hang out. If the family instead hangs out at the Penthouse, then it can also be a place where people who don’t have a place to stay/who need some energy can stay. It’s still there home though. It holds too many memories.

Cassandra:-

-*Obviously shes Batman. Must I even explain?

-*She inherits the BatCave and everything, and it means the world to her that Bruce trusted her with so much.

-*Cass is the one who could have become the evilest, and most dangerous villain of them all, but instead chose to be a hero. One with the most firm no kill rule. The one, who in Bruce’s eyes, could become an even better Batman than himself.

Tim:-

-*So, Tim doesn’t inherit the Business. Dang. Y’know what he does inherit? Bruce’s CAR collection.

-*If you want to tell me Brucie Wayne, one of the richest and dramatic people alive, who built the most iconic car ever, DOESNT have the most EXTRAORDINARY AND EXPENSIVE Car collection known to mankind, argue with the WALL.

-*I don’t know how to explain it, it fits Tim so WELL. He’d love the car collection, he’d pull up to his siblings and friends house everyday in a new car, and it annoys his friends and family SO MUCH. Classic Nepo-Baby behaviour tbh.

-*I feel like Bruce giving him the car collection, instead of anything serious is a sign. Tim was slowly BECOMING more like Batman (whereas Damian was the one who came defaultly as Batman, and his arc was to find his own person), and since at times Bruce didn’t let Tim have fun, it’s a sign from him now to let his teenage, rebellious side kick in. Have some fun.

Dick:-

-*Dick, our favourite Diva, what does he inherit? He inherits all of Bruce’s Jewellery/accessories!

-*Dick, Bruce’s first ward, the one with the most similar past, who became the hope the people needed instead of the fear.

-*Also, Dicks extra and fashion loving self would LOVE the accessories. More ways to somehow make the most fashionable stuff look terrible on anyone else but me!

-*The jewellery and accessories would be a very layered way of Bruce telling Dick to sometimes take some nights off. It’s okay to be human, and do normal things, like taking too much time choosing which watch matches his outfit, or what belt to match with his shoes.

Damian:-

-*ooh~ What does Damian inherit? Damian, the one who used to, in a faraway past, boast about the fact that he was the blood-son to hide his insecurities of never fitting in, or disappointing his father in some way? He’d inherit the albums, and the family heirlooms. Special objects that held not much value financially, but so much sentimental value.

-*The albums with photos of when Bruce was a baby, to pictures when Damian finally outgrew Duke and Tim. The pearl necklace that Martha wore, and the watch that Jason fixed.

-*Damian wouldn’t need money, I feel like he’d either get a very well paying job, or steal money from the league of assassins (‘It’s not stealing Drake, it’s MY inheritance anyways, so stop sticking your nose in other families business-‘)

-*He’d treasure the stuff so much 😭 He’d keep looking at photos of Bruce when he dies :)))

!!!EXTRA!!!

Stephanie:-

-*Yes, Stephanie gets something. Because while Bruce might not be her father, she’s still part of the family. Somehow.

-*She gets all the….BATMOBILES

-*Yup, you heard me. Cass is Batman, Tim has the cars, but somehow it’s STEPHANIE who ends up with the BatMobile.

-*So, mostly the reason was because of how funny it would be, but it’s also how much Stephanie would LOVE it. And of coarse it’s a layered message here as well.

-*Bruce seemed to have trusted Stephanie the least. He was the worst to her as Robin, and she ended up dead, and after THAT, they’re relationship was far from ‘good’

-*Now, because of the strained relationship, Bruce would NEVER let Steph ride the Batmobile, right? He doesn’t trust her, and, I mean, he doesn’t let DAMIAN ride it with consent- But him giving her the Batmobile is basically him saying ‘I was wrong to not trust you’, and it’s a sort of apology if you will.

-*(Tims ecstatic when he finds out he gets all the cars, but when he finds out Steph got the BATMOBILE?

‘SHE GETS THE BATMOBILE?’ ‘IM ON THE WILL?!’)

Barbara:-

-*Barbara gets all the contingency plans for the Justice league. Cass didn’t. This was Bruce’s way of telling babs how much he trusts her, and how mature she really is now.

-*He didn’t give Cass the contingency plans, not because he doesn’t trust her, but because…He thinks Babs would appreciate it more.

I know what ur thinking; Cass is Batman, Steph has the Batmobile, and Barbara gets the contingency plans? How does that work? Well, it’s basically Bruce encouraging Cass to let people help her, something he struggled with, and one of his biggest flaws.

Selina:-

-*if for some reason (They’re idiots I SWEAR TO GOD), they still weren’t married after he died, she gets the most beautiful diamond, pearl ring known to MANKIND, and a very heartfelt note.

-*If they were engaged/Married, Selina gets all the safe houses that Bruce owns around the world. He would want Selina to travel, and move on.

Commissioner Gordon:-

-*Commisioner gets to know Batmans identity (what it was before), and even if he already knew it, it’s the thought that counts.

-*He also gets a gun…wrapped in a sheet, with a note stuck on it. It had nothing to do with how Joker died, found in an alleyway, shot in the gut. At least, that’s what Barbara claims.

Bruce’s Money in his Bank account:-

-*His kids don’t need the money so.

-*20% goes to Clark (he begrudgingly accepts it, remembering the time Bruce gave him cash on his bday. Bruce always had strange ways of showing love.)

-*Another 20% goes to Dick, another 20% to the Justice League, and the remaining 40% to charity.

[kbkirtley]

Nightwing has always been a favorite character of mine, but I mainly steered away from the Batfamily generally because Batman/Bruce isn’t a character I gravitate towards. Over the last year, though, I’ve watched/read a lot of the rest of the fam through different shows, Nightwing comics, Batgirls comics, and Wayne Family Adventures. Here is my definitive ranking of the Batfamily*:

Tier Seven: A Literal Murderer

10. Red Hood - Jason Todd

Y’all know he kills people right? Every other post I see about him on here is talking about him being a cinnamon roll or a perfect gentleman and it seems to get lost that he walks around shooting people with regularity. Doesn’t even seem particularly remorseful about it. I get that you died, man, but like half the heroes in DC have died at some point and they’re not filling people with lead. You’d think with all his money, Bruce could send his kids to see a therapist but I guess that’s a lot to ask of a man who processed his own grief and trauma by dressing up like a bat to fight thieves and muggers.

Tier Six: You Couldn’t Pay Me All of Bruce Wayne’s Money to Stay in a Room with Them for Five Minutes

9. Batman - Bruce Wayne

8. Red Robin - Tim Drake

I find both Bruce and Tim to be pretty insufferable. They’re smart but not smart enough to realize how to be smart without being a dick about it. Too clever for their own good and while they’re ranked higher here than Jason, I’d still much rather be in a room with Jason than either of them. Death would be welcomed if my alternative was having to listen to Bruce or Tim talk for more than fifteen seconds.

Tier Five: Need More Data Points

7. Signal - Duke Thomas

I basically only know Duke from WFA which is a fun series but doesn’t give me a ton to go off of big picture. Jury’s still out but I like his odds of not slipping.

Tier Four: Children Get Benefit of Doubt

6. Robin - Damian Wayne

Damian annoys me but in his defense, he is a literal child that was raised by assassins. He gets this spot because of extenuating circumstances and his relationships with Dick and Jon Kent.

Tier Three: The Batgirls

5. Spoiler - Steph Brown

4. Orphan - Cass Caín

3. Oracle - Barbara Gordon

I would be willing to die for any of these characters but they would never let that happen. Probably the most fluid tier. Have more connection to Babs because of my intro to the Batfamily primarily coming from Dick. Cass is second here largely because of her and Dick being perfect together in WFA. Steph lost the straw poll but could easily be third the next time I do this with little effort.

Tier Two: The Billionaire Butler

2. Alfred Pennyworth

The actual father figure of the Batfamily. Every ounce of every one of the Batfamily members success as actual humans is because of Alfred. Batman may have made them all good crime fighters, but Alfred made them good people. Alfred made them heroes.

Tier One: Boy Wonder

1. Nightwing - Dick Grayson

This was always going to be number one. It was never a question. Dick is my favorite superhero and quite possibly my favorite fictional character in general. He was never not winning this ranking.

*Only doing characters I’m mostly familiar with so if someone is missing I just don’t have enough connection to them yet - feel free to send recs to know them better!

[gabbynyssa]

Okay, so while I do loathe the tendency of DC to become completely centered around just the Bats and Kryptonians; I do love when a strong dynamic between two of them is formed and becomes a core part of how fans view the characters. Not just shipping, but that too.

Like... We have the classic chums, Bruce and Clark, constantly steeped in homoromantic tension, regardless of how little DC want to admit it, but also from that closeness we got Nightwing: a hero raised by Batman but more interested in being a part of his "uncle" Superman's legacy.

Then, when Kal-El's estranged cousin and Batman's commissioner friend's daughter meet, Supergirl and Batgirl form a recurring duo that for awhile was just as shippable if not more so than Clark and Bruce. (And tbh it's kinda a shame that we rarely see Kara and Babs hanging out during Oracle storylines)

And after the deaths of Jason Todd and Superman, two unlikely teens stepped in to try to fill those roles before either could pull their rendition of a phoenix rising from the ashes: Tim Drake and Kon-El: the Robin that found Batman and the clone that would be Superman. Both struggling with who they wanted to be and who they were expected to be at birth, but united by that with a team of similar young people that wanted to just be themselves. (And possibly the most shippable duo in the whole lineup)

Later into their lives, both heroes found themselves with sons. One by choice, the other by circumstances out of his control. These sons were Jon Kent and Damian Wayne: the first naturally born half-Kryptonian/half-human eager to get into the heroing whist his parents desperately try to make sure he gets to just be a kid, and an assassin trained from birth that chose his father's kinder mantle over his grandfather's castle built on bones. Both stuck between halves and initially stuck together because of who their parents were. Despite their differences, or possibly because of them, they each found the other to be a kindred spirit, and grew to be inseparable friends with so much potential between them that their respective families basically dread the two of them without supervision. (Tho arguably they were more primed to work well together than Damian would like to admit, as Dick Grayson, then former Nightwing, had been the Batman to his Robin and his surrogate father figure for much more of his early hero days than Bruce had.)

And then, after many a death, rebirth, reboot and retcon, we find two cast-off members of these families... Jason Todd: an anomaly caused by a fracturing multiverse, his past even more a patchwork after that multiverse rebooted and then again when his found family of Outlaws regained their previous timeline friends and memories; and the third Bizarro of post-Flashpoint Earth One: fated to follow in some of the footsteps of Bizarro No. 1(the third Bizarro pre-Flashpoint) but cast aside for not being the same as the second Bizarro of his own timeline, who sacrificed himself to save it. Brought together thru meddling by Lex Luthor along with Artemis, an Amazon who'd also been uprooted from her past's continuity, they became like family; Jason and Artemis helping Bizarro to find who he wanted to be for himself and all finding some semblance of peace in a world that accepted none of them with open arms.

(Yes, I could get into Diana, Donna and Cassie's wonderful dynamics with their respective Bats and Kryptonians, but they're not as integral to the meeting and dynamics of the others, and the WW family isn't as frustratingly all consuming of the DC comic lineups)

[punkeropercyjackson]

Afrolatino Jason needs to be written not as a black Jason but Jason as a black character.Jason within canon already has all the qualities for a good black character except acttually being of african heritage and this is where the problems with fanon potrayals come in because they change him too much and at the same time,don't actually employ blackness into him as anything but an aesthetic or quirk

As an afrolatino and afrolatina(genderfluid and bigender)who started reading comics due to starting to selfship with Jason because i watched Utrh,it hurts but also makes me so fucking angry that these people have the audacity to act like they're doing it out of love for Jason when they don't even love him enough to respect his personality,coping mechanisms and relathionships because they only care about how hot he is and that's all that was needed to ruin his entire character in fan content for years and years and years,all because they can't handle unconventional characters despite their self-proclaimed freakiness.Adding 'Snowbunny' to your list of fetishes you have for Jason isn't representation and you've all treated him worse than DC ever has and yeah,i'm including Ditf

Stop taking Duke from Jason and Jason from Duke-Stop taking EVERYTHING from Duke to give it your ugly ass white boys Jason would hate anyway.Stop hypermasculinizing and oversexualizing him.Stop making him stupid and uncultured.Stop making him a fucking misogynist and animalistic.Stop forcing him to be best friends with Roy and Tim when he's never liked them that much and he never will and it makes sense with his character.Stop just slapping melanin onto him and calling it black character design.Stop being fake or just don't headcanon him as black-latino at all because it's not your call to begin with and my nonblack and white afrolatino Jason hc'ing friends started seeing him that way because i told them why i did and they thought it made sense and wanted to be supportive too and a racist ass of an ex-friend immediately jumped to 'Um but he's got anger issues and violent tendencies so ion know :/' without even hearing me out first when I'M the one who's actually a nigga and she did/said tons of microaggressions i didn't pick up on and started whining about me being 'mean' and 'innapropriate' for getting her ass post-realization and making a slave master joke at her expense for speaking over me on purpose

This is exactly what i mean cause that's how Y'ALL react to being called out on YOUR microaggressions towards Jason,both the afrolatino interpretation and canon compliant Jason with your ableist stereotyping and harmful anti-recovery headcanons(see the hypermasculinizing and oversexualizition i mentioned for both of those),and Duke and Cass too although she is nonblack she's worth mentioning since i brought Snowbunnies which are rooted in racialized misogyny and y'all need to stop feminizing and infantalizing her.She's a canon tomboy and she grown too and more 'unhinged' as y'all put it than Jason is textually and him and Duke are either equally chaotic or Duke is even more chaos.Back to reactions,nobody says jackshit about the 'Jason fucked Talia' jokes when that scene was csa,incest and anti-arab propaganda all in one or 'Jason grew up to date his brothers exes' that's deadass just child grooming that ALSO relies on thee most misogynoiristic incarnation of Kory ever and the constant gender essentialism and ableist termology thrown at Jason that he CANONICALLY defies and even expresses to be against.But when black Batfam fandom members get mean about the Duke exclusion and Cass' too out of poc solidarity,suddenly we need to chill and stop making things that deep and learn to curate to curate our experience

No.YOU need to curate your experience.Find the story you want instead of gentrifying the Batfam and grooming minors into it.Duke is a Batboy,a Robin and a Batkid so he's part of Batfam lore.Duke is Jason's favorite brother so he's a part of Jason's story and black solidarity is essential to writing a black character.Which is what afrolatino Jason is SUPPOSED to be and if additional Bats are needed,then it should be black ones like Duke.Afrolatino Jason HAS to be a black character.He needs Duke.He needs black Outlaws.He needs to love woc in general but especially black women.He needs to defy male expectations,not live up to them.He needs connections to his black roots,including his apperance

Jason Todd needs to be a black character,not just a mischaracterized mess that dosen't appreciate him and what makes irl black people see him the same as us.Afrolatino Jason was made by us,FOR us and you have no place headcanoning him that way if you aren't going to do it like we do.Afrolatino Jason is not your fetish and canon Jason dosen't wanna be seen as one to begin with.PUT SOME RESPECT TO HIS NAME!!!!!!!!