#anti joker x harley quinn

[spopsalt]

I uh...ahem...see a similarity

[goldengirlgalaxy]

Danny runs to Gotham after a reveal with his parents gone wrong. Bruce Wayne ends up catching on to the fact that he's a homeless kid in need of a good home. Danny, however, does not want to deal with another rich, potentially-insane, definitely-obsessed A-hole, so he does his best to steer clear of him. Doubly so when Batman takes an interest, as he want to put his hero days behind him.

Eventually, Danny, sick of running and wanting a way to make the two stop hunting him, decides that he should let someone else adopt him instead. Cut to him being found by Harley Quinn, who decides that she should totally pull a Bruce and adopt this black-haired, blue-eyed child. Hopefully Ivy won't mind!

[sayain-princess-vegenta]

I miss some good old-fashion Joker X Harley.

Finding some good fic/fanart/thoughts or rants is like finding a needle in the haystack.

I'm tired just give me my puddin' and Harls back.

[thevillainsfangirl]

Yes, I will complain about fandom bitches complaining about stuff I enjoy with ships and characters in cases where their complaining is directly affecting what content I get!

[riships]

I love them so much

[the-muppet-joker]

Im also the Joker btw, but I feel super protective of harley, so im gonna have to battle u at dawn with pistols or something for spreading hate... sorry.

*growling* Read. My. Fucking. DNI.

You are not the Joker. Do you know how I know that, Darling? Because you are looking at the true Clown Prince of Crime. And your precious Harley? Heh...

*shoots her between the eyes. Her brain matter splatters you as you look on in horror.*

The real Joker is a homosexual. And his real love... let's just say he's a muppet.

[xxharleyquinnxx]

Throwback

[joker-and-the-queen]

About shipping toxic/abusive relationships in fiction…

I see a lot of people around here who love to hate on people shipping canonically toxic relationships in works of fiction - like to the point that they make aggressive posts about it and tag the ship in question so that the people who do ship them see these posts - and, there’s a few things about this that need to be said…

Firstly, you’re completely valid for hating a toxic ship. You are allowed to hate them, but that does not mean that everyone else has to as well or that someone is a bad person if they do like said ship (seriously, how did we even get to this?)

Secondly. Let’s all take a breath and remember that they are, in fact, fictional and fiction is open to interpretation. This is not me saying that the abuse in a canon relationship is subjective (abuse is abuse and it’s never okay); what I mean to say is that - when it comes to works of fiction - almost anything can be reinterpreted…

Shipping a fictional relationship that is toxic or even abusive in canon does not mean that you romanticize or condone abusive relationships.

Most of the fans who ship canonically toxic ships don’t actually ship them as they are in canon. Most of us are very aware of the toxic elements of a ship and the version of them that we ship is not the version of them that you think we are when you see us talking about them.

This is especially true for fandoms that have multiple canon AU spin offs (such as DC) where there are many variations of these characters interpreted in different ways. New stories (inspired by, but still separate from the original) interpreted and reimagined and spun in all new ways: each with a different dynamic, varying backstories, even the same characters can be rewritten with different personalities. This goes for fanfiction as well. So just because a fictional relationship is abusive in canon does not mean that they are automatically abusive in reinterpretations such as AUs, or fanfics.

And just because someone ships a fictional relationship that is abusive in canon does not mean that they ship the abuse in said relationship or that they are romanizing abuse in general.

Many fans that love these relationships & characters ship much healthier interpretations of them, not the toxic versions that exist in canon. We can acknowledge the toxicity and the abuse of a fictional relationship and still love our own interpretations of them without actually romanticizing abusive relationships.

Feeling uncomfortable with a fictional ship because of abuse that exists between them in canon - and therefore wanting nothing to do with them in any interpretation - is absolutely valid. But who are you to say that no one is allowed to reimagine a story and completely recreate it?

My absolute favorite thing about fiction is that it can be rewritten in a million different ways, a million different times. With the right imaginations, it can be turned into something beautiful.

Fanfiction is a place for us to recreate another artist’s stories in the ways we wish to see it. It exists solely out of our passion for taking one story and spinning it into something entirely different. It reflects our hopes, our daydreams, a place for us to find comfort in a way that not even original works of fiction can bring us. And if someone wants to take a painful piece of fiction and write it into a new narrative where love doesn’t hurt…that’s okay.

[thatfantasylovingdork]

Hot take:

They release the trailer for the sequel to that Joker movie and they show Lady Gaga as Harley in the trailer with her song Judas playing…but psych it’s actually a movie about her getting over the Joker and the final scene is her walking away from him, smiling happily, while he wails and sobs and ruins his mascara and face paint in the background.

[artbyblastweave]

Hey I was wondering since you are very familiar with superhero comics/media and I am not: I remember reading on TVTropes about how there was some comic arc where Superman is basically forced to kill the Joker/does it under extremely understandable circumstances, but then immediately jumps off the slippery slope and becomes a horrible mass murderer. SO, I was wondering if Amy in Worm is a commentary/take on this, on what kind of warped understanding of morality taught by someone's family environment would one have to have to actually believe breaking one's principles once while being forced to by a serial killer would make you into an irredeemable villain forever, and what kind of trauma and warped understanding would you have to have for that to actually be TRUE and for you to actually do horrible things afterward. Emphasizing that that kind of moral arc is not how normal humans work and there would have to be very unusual circumstances for it to happen. But since I don't know about superhero comics I can't really elaborate on this, so I wonder what you think of the idea.

So the specific arc you're talking about was Injustice: Gods Among Us, and the tie-in comics produced as a backstory for that video game- which came out in 2013 onward, so the times don't line up for Amy to be a commentary on that arc specifically. In particular, Superman has basically the exact opposite issue that Amy does; he killed Joker because he murdered an entire city, and he justifies his subsequent slide towards tyranny on the grounds that he wasn't being proactive enough to stop things like that beforehand. Kind of a common refrain in "Superman loses it" stories- refer in particular to the "I did love being a hero. But if this is where it leads, I'm done with it" scene from the Justice Lords arc of the old Justice League cartoon. (Batman is occasionally painted as having a "murder-is-like-potato-chips" problem, refraining from killing because he wouldn't be able to stop. Depends on the writer, though.) What Amy absolutely is commenting on is what I think was a very pervasive idea in cape comics in the years when Worm was being formulated- the idea of the hero/villain binary as a real and meaningful thing, two meaningful categories of people which you can switch between as a discreet and meaningful action. Black Knight, Hawkeye, Rogue- all superheroes who started as supervillains, two distinct statuses which they held. Characters like Deadpool and Harley Quinn start as villains and drift towards a third-position antiheroic middle-ground that's treated as noteworthy for not really falling into either camp- in turn sort of generating what basically amounts to a third cluster, a coherent trinary. (A lot of 90s anti-heroes reifying the binary in how they're marketed as violating it.) Not actually many heroes I can think of who've gone full villain and had that stick, but definitely heroes who've flipped for a time in a meaningful way- Hal Jordan becoming Parallax sticks in my head. And at least since the 80s you've had writers making post-modern gags about powered people who opt out entirely and have day jobs using their powers for something mundane. (The X-Men are all over the place in here.) And subdued but gradually swelling in popularity is where Worm lands- the idea that what you're actually looking at here is a mob of agents, with their own granular agendas, alliances, outlooks, lines in the sand, and relationship to the law-as-written- that when a hero starts acting villainous or a villain does something heroic, when they approach a fifty-fifty split without actually changing their label, it's an indictment of the idea you can actually broadly group them so neatly in the first place. And there's a lot of clunky dialogue in parts of Worm where characters are treating the hero/villain binary as a real tangible thing- "hero behavior, villain behavior-" in a way that seems hilariously naïve and awkward from where I'm sitting in 2023, and indeed was probably kind of a no-duh moment even in 2011. Anti-heroes had been around for a while. But I do think that those sequences were written in conversation with an assumption about the genre that wasn't totally dead in the water at the time, an assumption that Amy holds as a way of showing how treating the categories as innate will drive you nuts when they fail to model reality. I genuinely believe that the MCU and DCEU have killed this binary dead in the general consciousness, though. These days a "superhero" is whoever the protagonist of the movie is, and the idea that that can encompass a whole range of moralities is pretty strongly cemented. A supervillain is whoever fights the star of the movie once and then dies. It's whoever is creating a problem right that second, not a social role you hold for a prolonged period. In this way and some others, Worm hasn't been commenting on the dominant paradigm of superheroism in some time- it's becoming kind of a period piece.

[lily-radiance]

Random fic headcanons and ideas:

TWD season two Daryl Dixon with an S/O who's in trouble

Both loners

MC is not from Georgia

Early 20s MC dating mid-30s Daryl

She knows how to shoot archery bows but not crossbows

Touch-starved

Andrea considers MC like another younger sibling

Everyone advises Daryl not to go for you and vice versa

When Rick, Hershel, and Glenn go to the bar, MC accompanies them. Daryl only goes when Lori tells him that you are in danger.

Carol gives him advice

Andrea and Lori warn him if he breaks your heart, he's a dead man.

RE4 Leon with a high school best friend who became an Umbrella Scientist.

MC was initially training for the force with Leon but dropped out to find another passion

She wants to help people but gets pulled into Umbrella’s dark research

Leon caught a glimpse of her at the end of RE2 but couldn't be sure if it was her.

Ashley doesn't trust MC, but Leon ignores it

Both have combat experience and have undergone physical conditioning

MC does not have Las Plagas

Krauser spars with MC, causing Leon to jump in.

Krauser asks Leon to choose between you and Ashley.

IDK if Leon would be sweet here or a Yandere.

Arkham Movie Trilogy Jonathan Crane, Harley Quinn, and Poison Ivy x Psychiatrist reader

This story is currently in progress!!!

Reader works at Arkham Asylum

Friends with Bruce Wayne

Knows about his alter ego and occasionally helps him solve cases

Reader believes Bruce should do more with his money to benefit Gotham

Combines Heath Ledger’s Joker with Margot Robbie’s Harley Quinn

The reader was in the same major as Harley in college, and the two dated briefly

Harley constantly teases the reader when she catches wind of a new crush

You try to ignore her, but eventually can't as she warns you that the doctor is deadlier than he lets on

You brush it off, too fond of your coworker to accept the notion that he can hurt you

Bruce doesn't like your new counterpart, picking up a destructive energy that screams guilty

In defiance, you decide to bring your beaux to one of many parties and get on your friend’s last nerve.

A kiss is shared in front of the crowd, some murmuring complaints while others smile. You wish to stay in Jonathan’s arms, but the moment is interrupted as Bruce pulls you aside

Naturally, two upper-class socialites fighting in front of an audience calls for bad publicity, but not on your part

“If you keep this up, you'll become a sewer rat criminal just like the rest!”

Luckily, you decided to wear a few rings to accentuate your outfit. Not only do you look stunning, but you reel back and land a brutal slap on his cheek. Yet that doesn't hurt as much as your following words.

“How dare you, Bruce. How dare you scrutinize what you can never understand. Thomas and Martha would be ashamed of you, and you, of all people, know they were difficult to rattle. Next time you need anything, ask someone who gives a shit.”

Your friend has to watch in shock as you exit the home, arm linked with a man he despises. Even in disagreeable situations, you manage to exhibit grace and elegance. It's the beginning of a new era and the opportunity to forget the complex life of the wealthy.

“Is your hand alright, (Y/N)? Better yet, are you okay?”

Never underestimate a psychiatrist to get into your head. He walks you to the car, watching your lips tremble in the darkness. You meet his stare, and one thought crosses your mind: kissing him sounds lovely. The doctor is efficient at picking up social cues, leaning down to meet your lips, and extinguishing the frigid temperature.

“As long as I'm with you, Jonathan. I can do anything with you by my side, no matter the risks.”

I want to make the reader an anti-hero vigilante with the “Grim Reaper” theme. Supernatural powers in Batman don't really occur so I will brainstorm. Most villains are the work of genetic experiments gone wrong so maybe I'll work with that?

JD(Heathers 1989) dating the reader

You are friends with Veronica and the despicable Heathers

Instead of going along with their charades, you often argue and challenge Heather Chandler

She constantly threatens your social standing but knows that the campus would easily choose you over her.

Purple color coded

JD can't help but admire your tenacity as you begrudgingly follow Veronica to the table, attempting to stop the girl from doing Heather’s bidding.

When you walk over, he seems uninterested in the girl speaking to him, instead transfixed on your disinterested attitude. Unknowingly, you lick your lips, tasting lip gloss and wiping some glitter away. When you lock eyes, you swear your heart stops beating, drawn to his carefree attitude.

Veronica says a few words to you, trying to convince you to let her administer the lunch poll

As she talks, you playfully roll your eyes, causing the delinquent to smirk in your direction. He hides a chuckle from breaking out, finding your careless joking funny given the circumstances. When Veronica walks off, it allows you to sit across from the newcomer, albeit a little too eagerly.

“Mind if I ask for a smoke? I'm dying from boredom.”

“Sure, I could never say no to a girl like you. I’m guessing you’ve been trying to break from those devils all day.”

He lights your cigarette as you take it between your teeth, enjoying the visual more than he lets on.

“It's all thanks to you, my knight in obsidian armor.”

[stealingyourbones]

Another funky little writing idea for dp x dc:

The GIW successfully capture Danny Phantom. Danny goes through testing, torture, and dissection for an indeterminate amount of time.

Danny then gets shoved awake and brought to this very intense woman who introduces herself as Amanda Waller. She gives him the option to either stay here and continue with the GIW experiments or join her special elite task force. Danny, not wanting to deal with more of what the GIW had in store, agrees to join Wallers task force.

And that’s how Danny gets recruited into Task Force X, otherwise known as the Suicide Squad. He gets a micro bomb implanted into his neck that he can’t get rid of with his ghost powers and fights alongside whatever era of Suicide Squad that you’d prefer.

He meets the various villains/anti heroes and there’s an assortment of people I absolutely think he’d mesh with well:

Harley Quinn

The two bonding over their trauma of being stuck in an unhealthy relationship. Harley with the Joker and Danny with Vlad. Harley would help Danny and talk through his trauma. She’s a very smart woman and would talk about things from maiming to the tidbits of psychology knowledge Danny learned from Jazz. They would just bounce each other’s chaotic energy off eachother and amplify it. This pair is a force to be reckoned with.

Deadshot:

Let me say that the old version of deadshot is creepy and gross and I Do Not Fuck With That Version Of This Man. He’s still :/ but what can ya do. Deadshot would be very apprehensive of this strange floaty ghost kid. He would see Danny as a new pupil to train and also manipulate. Danny sees what Deadshot is trying to do and is having none of it. Deadshot is incredibly impressed by Danny’s marksmanship and trains Danny in hand to hand combat, intimidation/interrogation, how to use an extreme variety of weaponry, and a bit of mechanical engineering to help Danny create ghost weapons. He is secretly proud of this kid and his growth in training. He always has in the back of his mind that this kid is a very useful pawn to have and gaining his trust means that he has a godlike entity in his back pocket to assist him in any situation.

Match

Match is an imperfect clone of Superboy. He’s Superboys version of Bizarro. Most writing of Bizarros just make them basically act like a shitty depiction of having mental disorders which sucks but other times they’re just not very smart and have some issues with speaking (along with their reverse speak thing where they mean the opposite of what they say.) Danny would instantly notice from previous experience that Match is an unstable clone and empathize with him. Match really is confused and thinks that he is Superboy and wants to do good and Danny would encourage that will to do what’s right and help boost Match’s confidence.

Peacemaker

I don’t think peacemaker would like Danny at all really. Mostly because of their opposing personal views, but Peacemaker would definitely respect Danny.

Those are all I can think of at the moment but feel free to reply with others.

The idea of Danny working on this strike force, taking out various villains and people that oppose the government and struggling to do so because if he doesn’t do it he’ll die, but if he does so he breaks his moral code.

So yeah Danny just slowly succumbing to the views of Amanda Waller and becoming a very very lethal fighter and gaining a bunch of knowledge from the other Squad members on how to fight is just such a cool idea to me. Thanks for coming to my mini rant.

[msfcatlover]

I am insane for your tma x dc headcanons! I have to ask, do you think any of the other dc characters are entity aligned? Heres a few hcs i had:

The Scarecrow: honestly might be an avatar touched by all the fears like Jonathan Sims. Probably like Sims, he started researching the fears and Scarecrow became obsessed w them. If i had to go with a single entity, i would say he is Dark/Corruption/Eye alligned

The Riddler: Eye or Spiral alligned

The Joker: slaughter or corruption (the angst if Jason shared an entity w his murderer!)

Poison Ivy: Extinction?

Harley Quinn: hunt or stranger aligned? She was hunting down the cure for Jokers issues, but he wasnt who she thought he was and she became the prey

Killer Croc: Flesh babey!

Two face: maybe another slaughter?

The penguin: Web

I dont know enough about non-batman characters to do others tbh

Okay, so in my opinion plenty of characters have been touched by various Entities or even marked by them in ways that can motivate them without fully being Avatars or aligning themselves with those Entities. Like, Scarecrow just screams to me of someone who was touched by the Spiral (and is probably in real danger of becoming an Avatar,) but he’s holding on to his own sense of rationality as hard as he can and trying to make Fear make scientific sense. Someone who would walk out of an impossible corridor, and spend weeks measuring the outside of the building trying to find where the hell that corridor was supposed to fit, before sending someone else in to see if they experienced the same thing, only to become fixated on the differences… Not saying that’s what happened, but Jonathan Crane had some kind of experience with the embodiment of Unreality itself, and he definitely feeds it regularly.

(Harley, likewise, seems more like a victim of the Spiral, Corruption, or Stranger than anything else. Oh, she’s still a supervillain/anti-hero depending on the day, but her origin story is of her mind being broken by the Joker’s abuse. That is either depressingly mundane, or being chewed up & spat out by one of those three Entities.)

I hadn’t thought much about most of the villains, but I am 100% with you on Ivy being an Avatar of the Extinction, and I can definitely see Croc as an Avatar of the Flesh. I’d throw in Hugo Strange as probably being at least aligned with the Spiral, and Pyg has definitely at the very least been marked by either the Spiral or Flesh (though I don’t know him well enough to say if he’s a full-blown Avatar or not.) If you only saw my first post, I also decided Talia & Ra’s are both aligned with the Web, though Talia values her own freedom enough I don’t think she’s a full Avatar. They’re the ones who helped Bruce find the Mother’s embrace. Damian was supposed to be a Web Avatar as well, but he’s just a little too desperate for love when nobody’s looking; his swarm is silk worms & moths, and he does manage to fake it for a while. If Joker’s an Avatar, it would either be the Stranger, Spiral or Slaughter, in my opinion, but I always like when experts of every kind take time to study Joker and are like, “Yeah, IDK WTF is going on with that guy, but I hate it.”

(Jason is an Avatar of the Desolation in my version, because the Slaughter is about the violence on as large a scale as possible while the Desolation is about the very personal aftermath. The Slaughter is War, where the Desolation is something taking out your entire life in one single night and leaving you behind to deal with it. Jason absolutely wants his targets to be scared of what will happen, what he’ll do to them, but in a “destroy everything you’ve ever worked for & drive away everyone you ever cared about” sort of way; not a “blow up an entire city block for no reason” sort of way. And given how much Jason cares about protecting innocents, he’s actually partially starving himself by not following through on complete Desolation the way people like Jude Perry do. Imagine if The Archivist (around s3) tore out the last page of a statement & threw it away without glancing at it before he started reading. That’s basically what Jason’s doing to himself.)

Some people in the DC universe, though, are just Like That(TM). Sure, it can be hard to tell supernatural trauma apart from genuine mental illness, but it’s still a superhero setting and some people are just little freaks (affectionate.)

Like, Oliver Queen? Just a little freak with a bow. Just a weirdo. Black Canary? Superpowers, but not of the Fear Entity induced kind. She’s just Like That(TM).

Speedsters? Oh honey, you better believe they’re all just Like That(TM). Anti-Avatars, if anything; those bastards basically became one with a potential aspect of the Vast and went “But what if I was just. Like. Nice about it? Or only mean in extremely specific, petty, personal ways? What if that?”

My main “outside of Gotham” thought is that Amazons are aware of the Entities. Primarily, they have to be very careful & monitor eachother for signs of potential influence of the Hunt, but they’re aware of others beyond it (though they might define the Entities along different lines thanks to cultural differences & all that; I don’t have any specifics, I just really like that headcanon that while certain fears are nearly universal, the way different cultures group & view them are going to be different. Like, if spiders are viewed as purely benevolent & good luck by the culture you were raised in, it’s very unlikely any capital-f Fear is going to have a spider motif. Smirke separated the Buried from the Vast, but aren’t they both primarily about being overwhelmed, about Too Much? At the bottom of the ocean, is there any difference? Why should other cultures draw that same line?) This created some tension with Batman at the start of the Justice League, as Diana knew even if he wasn’t lying when he swore to have the best intentions, Batman was still walking a razor’s edge; he could become a monster so very easily. On the other hand, it was a huge relief for Dick (who, again if you’ve only seen my first post, I’ve changed my mind on and decided he’s a Hunt Avatar) when he first met the other Titans and they all went over their powers, to have Donna realize what he was talking about and promise to stop him if he ever lost control. A promise she has actually had to follow through on a few times, when a villain got into their heads and pushed Dick too far; he sleeps better at night knowing Donna is both willing & able to wrestle him to the ground and keep him from hurting anyone, even when Dick’s gone full-feral.

(The tag for this AU on my blog is "tma crossover," if you wanna check out the... everything I have for it.)

[paladin-of-nerd-fandom65]

Further questions about the Starburst Duo by @gothicghost2000

1) a game the duo can play: the duo flys all the way up to the sky, maybe just about to enter outer space, & then they turn off their flight powers and free fall to the ground, the one who stops falling first loses, who wins?

- It’s a close call and thankfully the two set up some actual JLA developed landing pads for them at their target spot just in case; ultimately Jake lands about two miliseconds later than Chris , making him the winner by default. The fact the cushions were still intact after the impacts at all is frankly a miracle.

2) what controversial opinion does the duo have? Like pineapple pizza is good for example.

- For instance,

I can see Jake being more strongly favoring Superman overall as a hero to look up to as opposed to his Bludhaven and Gotham based contemporaries who still prefer Batman. Jake even insists that Superman can still cleanly beat Batman in a fight despite the latter having prep time and numerous gadgets on hand

Also, Chris among the few who believes no matter how reformed she might be, Harley Quinn doesn’t deserve all the love and attention she gets because of that past she has with the Joker but rather thinks she’s in desperate need of psychological therapy plus stepping back from the life of an insane anti hero

Finally, Both of them will absolutely protest the practice of Career Aptitude Testing in public schools as it’s not only entirely irrelevant to actual education but if anything only drags the students down if what the results say as being their futures in such a manner.

3) what was their first play date like after they meet?

- 7-year old Chris and 5-year old Jake would meet up once more at the Grayson apartment for their playtime together, first going for the classic hide and seek. Jake surprisingly proves himself very skilled at hiding without Chris using his x ray visions which is rather funny given the entire time he usurps his blanket for doing so. Afterwards, using some cardboard multicolored brick boxes as city, the two bring out their Superman and Nightwing action figures to act out what an average superhero adventure looks like for them. The bad guys they’d have for that would be Luthor and Dr Light. Finally, once they start to settle down a bit around nighttime, it’ll be the first of many movie marathons they’d watch; in this case a classic Disney one, including in order Dumbo, Sleeping Beauty, Fox and the Hound, and Aladdin

4) which brother Chris likes more if he has to choose?

- In a choice like that and if he absolutely had to pick, it’ll be Jon. While the bond between Conner and him is tight as is, (at least in this timeline as Jon was born before the events of the Reign of the Supermen) Chris and Jon have a longer lasting and more solid relationship as brothers as Jon accepts Chris as a big brother almost right from the start and Chris felt that love just as quickly when first moving in with the Kents

5) what is something that causes the duo to rip out their hair in frustration?

- For Chris, if there’s one too many times all too quickly at once of Kryptonian machines and scanners identifying him as Lor-Zod. The less his connection with the rouge general of a father who made the first six years of his life a living hell is emphasized and reminded of to him, the better.

As for Jake, in turn frustration of letting a key supervillain he’s been tracking down for a lengthy amount of time get away and leaving him back to square one is a guaranteed of him losing some follicles. There’s at least one sign of his father in him after all.

6) Anti-hero/villain idea: a nerdy kid who becomes a vigilante wearing a hockey mask & on his mask or body that says: bully hunter. My opinion there should be more kid heroes & villains

- Hmmm…..a Casey Jones to the Duo’s TMNT more or less? That’s promising enough, though unlike Casey, I can see Bully Hunter while certainly helpful to our heroes, he’d not be as competent and skilled due to not just his age but definitely his lack of even self training. This can ensure he gets rescued from tight spots by Chris especially on plenty of occasions if he’s part of a big superhero mission, rather being uninvited to them

[sing-me-under]

YOUR ART IS SO PRETTY! :) also as a fellow dsmp/batfam lover I was wondering who would be who if you made an au of the other? (From batfam to dsmp or dsmp to batfam, you can choose!) me personally Tommy gives a bit of Damian,,

Hello hello! Thank you very much ✨✨✨ I’m glad you like my art!

About the DSMP x Batfam AU…. I really had to think this one through. I love both of them, but they have such different character dynamics and ideologies. Even the very worlds they are set in are like complete opposites. However, I have also read like so many (so many) superhero AU fics for the DSMP (before the fandom tag got overwhelmingly oversaturated), so I have some thoughts on…

DSMP Characters as The Batfam

You’re right. c!Tommy does feel like he’d be a good match for Damian. Loves animals? Feral? Stabby? Genuinely good? Artistically-inclined? The youngest? If we’re going by characters traits, Tommy would absolutely be Damian… But if I did that, I’d spend way too much time comparing characters who can’t be compared… So my list is going to be based on vibes. Same vibes are also why I’m choosing to make L’Manberg the main members. I’m completely disregarding age, motivations, personality, etc. This is all (mostly) vibes. There is some justification for them.

I wasn’t able to think of a match for everyone, but I got a decent chunk.

Wilbur as Batman

Fundy as Nightwing

Quackity as Oracle

Tommy as Red Hood

Tubbo as Red Robin

Jack as Spoiler

Niki as Batwoman

Ranboo as Black Bat

Slime as Batgirl 2 (also Cass but specifically Batgirl-era)

Eret as Talia

Philza as Ghostmaker

Kristen as Martha and Thomas

Technoblade as Azrael

Karl and Sapnap as Harley and Ivy (who’s who? Idk)

Dream as the entire Rogue Gallery — every single rogue just compressed into one blob of a man

I felt compelled to draw Tommy as a Robin and Red Hood.

Notes under the cut. They’re explanations for what little of my thought process can be converted into comprehensible words. It’s long. I ramble A LOT. Read at your own peril.

I’m pretty sure the obvious explanations are Wilbur, Tubbo, Techno, Karl&Sapnap, and Dream.

c!Wilbur is so much like Bruce Wayne — it’s kind of not funny. There’s the obvious “led children to fight a war” thing, the “compulsively acquiring children because they won’t leave him alone” thing, the “becomes evil immediately after crossing the no kill thing” thing, and the “sad little meow meow wet rag of a man but still extremely charismatic” thing…

c!Tubbo and Tim Drake are the closest 1:1 of this entire list.

Okay, okay. c!Techno as Jean-Paul. The vibes are wrong if we’re talking about canon Azrael, but I’m specifically thinking of fanfiction/“goes to family dinners WFA-style” Azrael.

c!Karl and c!Sapnap have such “married anti-villains befriending the heroes” vibes. I love them so much in superpower AUs even when they’re not with c!Quackity. As I’m writing this, I’m remembering that Schlatt and Quackity are also very often written in a Joker x Harley Quinn situation, but we’re talking about Batfam!

Dream is like the caricature of a Gotham Rogue(TM). He’s got the sympathetic motivation sticky noted onto a decades’ worth of terrorism with only the vaguest hope of redemption that he’ll probably never actually get because he’s too popular as a villain. I could make a point for any character interpretation (both fanpn and canon) of c!Dream as Ivy, Penguin, Riddler, Scarecrow, Black Mask, Joker, etc. (also, not a Rogue, but Ra’s too)

The thing about the DSMP is that it almost feels like a reversal of DC. It’s like a mirror, the same solution from a reversed conclusion. That also means DSMP characters appear un-traumatized and naive then get completely fucked over by the sheer horror that is the SMP, meanwhile DC characters appear fresh from traumatized and find themselves in a position to believe in goodness. The late-stage DSMP was filled with isolation while DC heroes always end up in found families.

It’s why I couldn’t think of a proper match for Damian.

What I loved about late-stage c!Tommy is that he keeps (disguises) that hope and love for people despite everything. Meanwhile, Damian’s character development is learning all that from the ground up. The vibes are similar but not the same. Honestly, for a hot second, I considered Purpled as Damian but alas, not enough Purpled content. If I were to project my own timeline of events upon the DSMP, Purpled would make a great Damian-esque match.

But that does not change the fact that Tommy as Red Hood has the best vibes.

No one else is quite as “doomed by the narrative and irreversibly changed yet somehow still painfully compassionate” in the same way Tommy and Jason are (also the “rejecting their father/brother but still loving them unconditionally). Their vibes are truly something.

I’m also very stern in my belief that c!Tommy should never kill because it would negatively impact his character development, but he very very easily could have gone the Red Hood route. By technicality, it’s more like Tommy as Robin 2, but I so dearly love the potential of villain! and anti-villain!Tommy. It’s such an underutilized concept. (Also I wrote a protege AU like way back and it makes me think of Red Hood now lol)

But originally, I flip-flopped between Fundy as Red Hood and Tommy as Nightwing, but I dunno. The logic was there but the vibes weren’t.

If we were considering a timeline of events, Tommy would make a great Robin 1 with Fundy as Robin 2 . Dick Grayson was the OG child hero, much like Tommy. He was angry and craved justice but he was also full of Light. Meanwhile, c!Fundy grew up in Tommy’s shadow.

However, Fundy also has that “if I can’t make them smile, I’ll make them cry” thing that Villain Dick Graysons also tend to have. Dick is always like four steps away from flipping a switch and becoming a supervillain. He tries so fucking hard to do good, but if he ever determines that “being good” isn’t enough to “do good,” he takes over the world. But Dick would also like step away from toxic energy by holing himself up in his apartment filled with depression, which is exactly what Fundy did.

Fundy and Dick are more “blood-soaked wet cats with strained smiles and bowling alley carpet polos” and Tommy and Jason are more “dramatic Greek tragedies.”

The Batgirls and adjacent female Bat vigilantes came to me immediately, but it’s not as long as the above.

Quackity as Barbara Gordon. He followed Wilbur filled with Hope and Justice. Quackity makes an excellent Batgirl 1. His Las Nevadas arc would then be Oracle but Lawful Evil and also completely isolated from any friends, family, or rational support. Quackity isn’t inherently bad. He still has good intentions, and he’s still good at heart, irregardless of how he portrays himself. He’s the classic femme fatale, including the whole sexist Hollywood “he needs a strong male love interest to take care of him” thing because he is absolutely spiraling on his own. Anyway, I am a fiancés shipper, so this would lead to a Birds of Prey-esque team up of LN and Kinoko.

Jack Manifold has Stephanie Brown’s “glitter bomb in the face” and “functions entirely on spite but also is just really tired of being hurt” energy. Jack isn’t quite Stephanie, but his dynamic with Tubbo made me consider him as Spoiler. Also consider: Jack and The Nuke being Steph’s Robin 4 arc.

Slime is so much like Batgirl-era Cassandra. There’s a lot of “innocent vs naive, manipulated by those with intentions, both evil and morally just” going on. Batgirl!Slime and RH!Tommy would have such a dynamic. I think about Fort Big a lot.

It is literally a crime that c!Jack Manifold and c!Slime never interacted in the DSMP.

Ranboo as Black Bat. I don’t know how to explain it, but Tim Drake and Cassandra have such a great dynamic (albeit one that I’m only familiar with in fanfics). I was originally going to say Ranboo as Orphan, but I don’t think he’s quite there. Maybe GhostBoo as Orphan.

Speaking of ghosts, GhostBur as Carrie Kelley’s Robin. He’s in the wrong places at the wrong times and (unknowingly) shoves himself in situations, and he’s got that unfair “why” going on during Doomsday. Unfortunately, GhostBur suffers from memory loss and is often willfully ignorant. I think in an AU space where’s he’s an actual character and not the echo of an idea, he’d make a great elseworld-type Robin.

c!Niki is a WLW revolutionary war veteran with a very close relationship with Wilbur. There’s more, but again, Vibes.

Now here’s where my hot takes truly lie: Philza as Ghostmaker and Eret as Talia.

We all like Dadza but c!Phil? Absolutely not a Dad. If you actually look at c!Phil without the rose-tinted lens of his content creator’s dad energy, c!Phil and Ghostmaker aere weirdly similar? I really don’t know how to explain it exactly, but I think that Phil would have brought Wilbur up as like this weird amalgamation of BTK-era Bruce, Phantom One, and Clownhunter, leading to Wilbur eventually being… not abandoned because Phil wanted Wilbur to have more independence… but struggling to make it on his own. Eventually, Wilbur would follow his parents’ (Mumza would be Martha AND Thomas) footsteps and become something that’s essentially the same but different. Like how Ghostmaker is basically Tynion’s Batman OC but somehow more edgy except Wilbur is in the opposite direction. Like how Martha and Thomas saved people through philanthropy and surgery and Bruce wanted to save people in his own way too. Phil and Kristen influenced Wilbur towards fighting crime… Also I could totally see c!Phil becoming a crime fighter as a fun and challenging art form rather than any genuine interest in being a good person. c!Phil’s got that immortal dilemma where he’s basically a sociopath running purely on an ingrained and steadily eroding moral code.

Now… Eret as Talia. Where do I begin? I love Talia. She’s such a badass but also she’s a kind person who believes in Bruce’s cause but she’s also extremely loyal to her father’s cause but she loves her family so much but she’s also a assassin princess but the world is against her and everything she is will only continue going downhill until she either becomes straight up evil or stands her ground. I love the characterization of Talia who chose to side with “the greater good” against the person she loves and more has to live with the burden of this decision for the rest of her life and continue to do what needs to be done even, for better or worse… Did I say Talia? I meant Eret. Wait, no, it’s both. That applies to both. Talia’s choice is betraying Bruce to aid her in running a global assassin cult and killing people. Eret’s choice is betraying his revolution to run a monarchy and enforcing taxes. Yes, the vibes are the same.

This has been my TED talk. Thank you for reading this far.

[mk-wizard]

I am so sick of comic books being so anti-relationships. Keeping a character single doesn't keep them fresh and new. It keeps them and the audience unhappy. What's wrong with doing you AND having a healthy relationship?

I am so sick and tired of every iconic couple in comics being broken apart in favor of the "new". The one relationship that I was glad didn't work out was Joker x Harley Quinn for obvious reasons.

Plus, it's not a healthy message to young readers that they have to choose between. In the real world, lots of people have jobs including tough ones and happy relationships. Besides, the reality is that the fans ROOT for the couples anyway, so let the kids have their candy.