#batfam discourse

[webshood]

"Jason Todd is a cop"

So close !! That's actually Dick Grayson 💕

[damianwaynesutilitybelt]

If I'm being honest I really hate all those posts and discourse that go somewhere along the lines of "Bruce's favourite or whose the closest to Bruce ect ect"

Just any kind of ranking with the bat kids relationship with Bruce.

They're all very complex relationships and they all bring different things to the table they all understand Bruce in different ways. And Bruce loves them in his own way. They're his kids that's the end of it.

[geekthefreakout]

“Jason only ever gets Dick's hand me downs as friends and love interests”

I feel like when people say this it takes away that these characters belong to a much bigger universe that is outside of Dick Grayson. Like he doesn’t own them and they aren’t characters that only appear in his comics.

Also relationships dynamics can change especially when characters are apart? Like characters can begin to see other characters in a different light and become friends or romantic interest. I honestly find that Jason and Dick end up in that same circle compelling especially when they are said to look like each other, like it adds to a dynamic that writers can explore between would be brothers.

I agree! Especially with the Timeline Compressing that DC does because they REFUSE!!!! to let these characters get older, we now have a Dick and Jason that are only a few years apart in age.

Jason was a Titan too, however briefly while he was Robin. I thought (using JayRoy as my example because I'm me) that Jason and Roy wound up having a great dynamic together, and it was only made better by Roy having been Dick's friend first (focusing on the positives in RHATO and Red Hood/Arsenal and not the nonsense- I admit I'm more accepting of it because it was the first time I read a book with Roy as a main character).

Or how Jason will interact with Kori or Donna sometimes, it's just adding layers. The way Donna sometimes acts like Jason is also her little brother, the way Kori cares. I think people forget that it is entirely possible for siblings to have a similar friend group, and have unique bonds within that group.

It can get frustrating when writers feel like they can only have one or the other sometimes though- note that we haven't had any interactions between Jason and any of Dick's Titans in ages and ages, aside from the DCU digital exclusive that was going for a while. That was fun.

[the-fictional-wife]

I already knew this bitch @luv-lock was weird when they hardcore gender bent all female characters with a fem reader (ooo im so soft and woke I'm so scared). You can always tell in someone's vibe when they're a right-wing ignorant asshole who finds even being LGBTQ "woke" because they were confused and curious when they were younger. Not even mentioning they sling the r-slur at people as an insult and spew misinformed lies about America's state right now....while not even being American.

Anyways, this isn't a trauma competition of "who has it worse", fuck ICE, fuck you trump and fuck all you right wing losers who are nothing but hateful and legit kill off LGBTQ, black people and people of color alike, and support the illegal detainment and deportation of immigrants- REGARDLESS of citizenship status (yes they're taking citizens and people in their court appointments too shocker). Same with you fucks who support ICE, police, and military harming peaceful protesters as well as the damn press.

People's human rights are being infringed on here and being taken into centers where no one knows what's fully happening to them and you bitches wanna sit up here talking outta your ass- you shitted more on democrats then half of America who voted that man in, the world is sick even in fanfics.

[randomasfuk]

Okay, something that’s been pissing me off recently is the whole “Dick Grayson is a whore” thing. He absolutely is not. He has explicitly said so in the past (see the panels at the bottom of the post), and what pisses me off even more is people dismissing criticism of this as just “fanon mischaracterization.”

Him being portrayed as a whore is becoming canon now. I could be wrong on the timing, but it definitely seems more prevalent since he was canonized as Romani. And, conveniently, that just so happens to align with a massive Romani stereotype. Maybe it’s a coincidence, but it’s annoying as hell, whether it’s fanon or canon.

It’s the same way people reduce Damian to some rabid, violent creature that bites—another stereotype, this time about Arab people. It’s been pissing me off lately.

Tim and Bruce are the family whores, not Dick. In canon, he’s attractive and charismatic, but that doesn’t mean he’s a slut.

Can we please, for the love of whatever the hell you believe in, stop copy-pasting racial stereotypes onto characters? I don’t care if it’s unintentional. Stop it.

[moranamorena]

If I see one more person saying that Jason Todd's fans only like him because they don't read comics I'm gonna lose it

Dude, they're the only ones who actually read his comics, especially his Robin runs. The amount of times I saw Jason's hater making a statement about him that isn't true to most if not any canon is riddiculus And I saw the even higher amount of people arguing and disagreeing with Jason's fans over facts based on actual panels from comics

If you hate Jason for being and angry Robin who disobeyed Bruce and got himself killed you already lost an argument

If you hate Jason for being a stupid brute who stands out only because he kills people and uses guns you already lost an argument

If you hate Jason for "stealing" from other characters and not having story elements unique to his own character you already lost an argument

Jason Todd fanbase is as intense as it is because OTHER COMIC BOOK READERS AND BATFAMILY STANS DON'T READ HIS COMICS

It's really frustrating to have other fans claiming you don't know your favourite (or one of your favourites) characters when you know for a fact that you had read so much more about him. And that you have to witness his character being butchered by both the new comic writers and people in fandom over and over again

[galaxymagitech]

Sorry, but I do actually think it’s possible to be a Batman fan without reading any comics. The comics are super fun! I encourage people to give them a try. Never underestimate the power of a universe you care about to get you to read a media you normally don’t enjoy. But there are:

Three seasons of Batman: The Animated Series

Three seasons and one movie of Batman Beyond

Three seasons and one movie of Batman (1966)

58 DC Animated Original Movies, many of which include Batman or Batman characters

Over a dozen live-action Batman-related movies, including the very popular Christopher Nolan trilogy and The Batman (2022)

Many novelizations of comic arcs, including No Man’s Land and Court of Owls

Batman video games, including Arkham Knight (and related Arkham video games) and Gotham Knights

Look, I get that the comics are the source material, the original, but…

Are you really going to say someone who has watched BtAS ten times and has an encyclopedic knowledge of it is “not a Batman fan”?

What about someone who is obsessed with Batman (1966) and knows all the details about it and has cosplayed as Eartha Kitt’s Catwoman?

Or someone who repeatedly plays through Arkham videogames and rambles on Tumblr about them?

Or a fanfiction writer for The Batman (2022) who has watched the movie more times than they can count and written 200k words of fanfic for it?

Or someone who has religiously watched every single DCAOM, most several times?

Or someone who is completely obsessed with that one Batman radio play and makes fanart for it?

Face it. Batman is a multimedia phenomenon. If you can be a fan without watching the movies, you can be a fan without reading the comics. I understand that it’s frustrating when someone who has no grounding in any canon starts talking about something being “out of character,” but…I find it ridiculous for people to claim that you can’t be a Batman fan if you haven’t read Batman comics. Because you can be. Unless in those scenarios I described above everyone is just a fan of Ratman instead.

[thecorefrisk]

Look… gender bending a character is not bad. In fact, it can allow for discussion to be made on what would have happened if that character were to be born of a different sex than they are in the original material.

The problem lies in the fact that often when people do genderbend a character, they do it with the INTENTION of shipping them with a character that would have been of the same sex if not for them gender bending them or to ‘ship’ them with an audience (or concept of a person that represents an audience) when it’s likely that they would have been of the same sex if not for the gender bending.

This action furthers the narrative that it would have been ‘wrong’ or ‘immoral’ if they had kept the character’s original gender as it was— even in a situation in which changing the character’s sex did nothing for the story’s/piece of media’s narrative nor its message. They could have been kept as their original gender and nothing would have changed.

For example, when I was an active part of the BNHA fandom, I saw a lot of ‘fem!Deku’ content here and there. And often, this sexualized the character and had this originally male character be put in either romantic or sexual relations with one of (or many of) their classmates, who were male more often than not.

And a more ‘modern’, or up to date example, would be if someone were to gender bend Stephanie Brown or even Barbara Gordon in order to write ‘x reader’ content about them. When you’re writing for a mainly female audience, gender bending an originally female character into being male for said audience comes out as insanely homophobic.

(And was apparently only a sign of their morbid amounts of insanity and rather lacking amount of intellect because wow. ‘Illegal people’ do not exist as crossing the border ‘illegally’ is no more of a civil offence than jaywalking is and sorry, if you’ve ever jaywalked then goodbye to you I suppose!

Good grief.)

It is not the fact that they are gender bending them that is the issue. It is the intention behind that act.

I am not saying that the intention is always to be explicitly homophobic, but it’s a very big sign that you might be.

[webshood]

not gonna elaborate it rn, but people diminishing Jason's experience with homelessness, malnourishment, childhood abuse and neglect, because he got adopted by a billionaire while also hcning Tim Drake to be abused and starved by his wealthy parents is rooted in racism and classism

[who-always-pays-their-taxes]

Why do you (as in the royal you) as a member of a fandom,, seem to believe that things need to be,,, canon??? in fanfiction??? why would? that ever be? if you wanted to read pure canon, you could,,,, idk,,, read canon? pick up the source material,,, and if you wanted to read pure canon fanfiction just search the ‘canon compliant’ tag. that’s how ao3 works. so silly.

[ghostly-bat]

Oh teenager pregnancy Damian would not have a moment of peace in his home they would not leave him alone they would become overprotective even more when he is partner along and most likely would not let Jon be near him

Teen pregnancy Damian would not know a single moment of peace in that house. The Batfam would go feral. Like the second they find out he’s pregnant it’s over for him. No patrol. No stress. No sharp objects. No walking too fast. Jason installs baby gates around the entire manor.

And if Jon is even slightly in the picture?? Oh forget it. Bruce is hovering like a bat-shaped shadow, arms crossed in the corner. Tim is doing “background checks” on Jon like he’s not the literal son of Superman. Dick’s trying to be supportive but also absolutely putting Jon in a headlock every five minutes to “chat.” Alfred is the only one treating Damian like a competent human being, and even he’s giving Jon a look every time he walks in like “tread. lightly.”

They won’t even let Damian open his own doors. He tries to reach for tea and suddenly there are six hands trying to hand it to him. He gets up from a chair and Dick materializes behind him with a cushion and a concerned “do you need a nap?” He goes to scratch his ankle and Cass is like “do you need help reaching?”

Damian: “I’m not disabled—” Everyone else: “YOU’RE DELICATE.”

Meanwhile Jon is sitting in the corner like a kicked puppy because the fam has collectively decided he did this and they will not forgive him. Even if Damian very clearly still wants to be near him, they keep gently and not-so-gently inserting themselves between them like “oh Jon, funny seeing you here—go home.”

[geekthefreakout]

Sure the DCU is a big universe, but Jason doesn’t have his own original character in the same way dickDoes. So when you give Jason characters that are associated with dick, it’s given hand me down because Jason doesn’t have any team of his own. It’ll be like y’all going? Wally can be best friends with Dick and Jason and Kori canDate Jason and Dick. Even Jason’s small time in the titans was due to dick and it was so brief that you literally hav to use headcanon she wuss there’s nothing in canon to work off it. In the end jasons isn’t an established enough character for you to claim the DC is a big universe when Jason has nothing on his own in that big universe

Jason does have things of his own- it's not his fault that writers keep forgetting. He has his relationships with Bizarro, Artemis, and Rose Wilson to name a few, and those are a delight to come across (usually). He has separate relationships with people who were Dick's friend first, and I think that's reasonable and realistic enough.

Jason being in Dick's shadow much of the time is an interesting aspect of his character to me, and not uncommon in younger siblings, especially when he works so hard to break out of it.

Of course, the sad fact is that Jason was initially conceptualized to literally be a replacement Dick. Post-crisis, he at least got his own backstory, and I do love him stealing those tires. I also love the connection he has to the streets of Gotham.

Unfortunately Jim Starling was not a fan of the character, which is how we got to his untimely demise at the hands of the Joker after only 5 years- 2, if you take into account the post-crisis reboot.

Tim came in to a more favorable environment, and got to be Robin without interruption for 20 years before Damian came along, and was the first Robin to have a solo series. So he got to expand his cast of friends nearly as much as Dick did.

Wanting Jason to have more of his own niche is part of why I like the more mystical stuff they did with him in N52. It's my hope that someone will be able to commit to a direction to take the character in, rather than having the constant back and forth of "Jason does shady shit with Bruce's permission cuz Bruce trusts him, except suddenly Bruce doesn't (usually with no explanation) and now Jason's shady shit is no longer Bat Approved and therefore bad"

This is also another reason that I want them to revisit the Generation Outlaws cuz that was fun.

[girluimfailing]

"Duke is the most mentally stable😂😂😂" joke in big 2025 lord we are never getting outta here

[eddiebloombug]

all comic fans know how to do is: develop superiority complexes based on their personal perceptions of a character, eat hot chip, and lie

[the-fictional-wife]

goddamn I’m so glad you said something about love lock or whatever the fuck their tag is

i was so weirded about about the gender bending thing and seeing the screenshots of her horrible take is making that writing choice make so much more sense.

I’m so glad I’m not alone bc I thought I was the only one who thought is was weird 😭

I didn't wanna say anything before without knowing someones intentions but god it was so obvious- I like a good gender bend but they changed EVERYTHING about the characters- There was no point in adding the girls of the batfam if you're that plagued to make wlw. Sorry that the existence of LGBTQ is too woke (per their words) 😘

"Stephen Brown" "Barry Gordon" 😒 Like dog whistles. Very happy they exposed themselves to be homophobic anyways HAPPY PRIDE!

[timmydraker]

Okay but Tim with aspd who doesn't really feel love the way his family or friends do, he does care for them - because they're *his* but he sees them as possessions.

I am by no means an expert but here’s my take on this:

I think the biggest part of this would be jealousy? Like, not just the whole dragon hoard mentality thing, but they’re his family and he doesn’t want that to change.

Like, he’s fine with them having friends and partners and all that, but after Damian comes in and eventually gains his ‘approval’, maybe Bruce starts to pick up that maybe he shouldn’t be having any more kids come into the fold so deeply.

It could be him meeting a recently orphaned kid at a charity and he sees Tim, not so much glaring and angry, but looking scared and heartbroken. He’d probably assume it’s because he recently lost his own parents, but then Tim hesitantly asks him if the kid is going to be moving in with them and while he and an excellent poker face, Bruce is Batman.

I think he’d want constant assurance that they love him and want to be around him, but all it takes is a few days or even hours apart and he starts to tell himself they were lying or changed their minds.

His response to this is that he has to ‘fix’ it, whether by talking to them or by moving things around so he can see them more, like time tables or family dinner.

But on the opposite end, I think he’d totally forget to offer the same love. Purely because I’m his kind they are his family, they’re his people, y’know? Why wouldn’t he care for them? He needs words of affirmation to know he’s actually wanted there and he is not intruding, yet just assumes that if he wants to not deal with them for weeks or months at a time, that’s completely normal.

He’s not selfish, he genuinely wouldn’t see why that is a problem because he’s made sure they want him there when he gets back and they’re his family so what’s wrong??

Naturally, Bruce and Alfred would pick up on it first and help him understand through logical reasoning and thinking without making him feel like he’s broken in some way.