#jason todd was never the angry robin

[undertheredhood]

jason todd is much like a typical dad in the sense he will share something extremely outrageous that had happened to him/he did out of nowhere and will never speak of it ever again no matter how many times he’s asked to elaborate.

[ekat-fandom-blog]

Jason, Tim, and Dick all get magically reverted to their robin selves and now Damian has to get them back to the cave to fix everything.

While they're all willing to follow Damian, (even if it's just to demand answers from Bruce on Dick and Jason's parts) only Tim is happy with the situation. ("I succeeded in being Robin and I get to hang out with both previous Robins and the new one? This is great!")

Dick thinks that his name was stolen 3 times. Jason thinks he was fired and kicked out like Dick was. Tim thinks he either died or found someone more fit to be Robin and support Bruce. Damian is just confused that his brothers seem to have done 180 of their opinions on him.

[jasontoddssuper]

Lbr the reason no solo Batfam stans make content of Jason being best friends and found brothers with Miles while also doing the same for him with Danny because ~parallels~ as if Spiderverse Miles and Robin!Jason aren't literally the same character is that they can't yaoify Jason and Miles' relathionship.Sunflower's melanin is too poppin' for them to want to fetishize him like they do literally all the Batboys and that's also why they pretend Duke isn't one.Call them Tim Burton the way poc don't fit their aesthetic

[spiderwing-nightman]

spent the last two days going insane about how in the Reverse Robins au and how and why Tim would have a fundamentally different reaction to his death and subsequent rebirth than Jason did, like to the point that I don’t believe he would die in the same way. Like he would be responsible for his death because that’s who Tim is, his death would be the result of his secret keeping and his impulsiveness. And when he comes back he wouldn’t be like Jason and have an elaborate scheme to get to bruce and kill his killer, like he wouldn’t think that Bruce should avenge him (I don’t even think he would believe Bruce mourned him and I don’t think he would angry about that) and he wouldn’t be upset by more robins (cause he was always meant as a stand in). Anyway I think the differences between Tim and Jason are fascinating and I think exploring them in the context of canon Jason vs reverse robins au Tim is so fun. 

[sacersanguis]

can we stop exhausting ourselves with discourse over whether this 'x' comic writer fucked up jason todd's character or not and just agree that almost every writer who has written jason post-resurrection as red hood has screwed up his characterization so bad with scott lobdell being one of the worst offenders?

[desos-records]

suddenly struck with thoughts about the devastating concept of Jason Todd

because he was good. because he had a bleeding heart despite every reason not to. he loved school and was good at it. he was the first to be adopted, with little pretense of guardianship. he did everything he could to be a perfect Robin and live up to an impossible ideal. he only ever wanted Bruce and Dick to like him.

because he met Bruce in the same place and on the same day that Bruce's parents died--the single defining moment of Batman's existence. and he made Batman laugh. he hit the Dark Knight, Terror of Gotham, with a tire iron. he wasn't afraid of the man who turned fear into a weapon.

because he couldn't save his mother from herself, but he tried. because he was too good not to try and save the woman who gave him up. too good to play the Joker's game. the crowbar didn't kill him, the bomb did. he died knowing he wouldn't make it and tried anyway. he died a hero.

because other Robins have died, but none of them put an irrevocable tear in the mythos of Batman. because Jason Todd always dies, in every universe. he dies for the sins of his father. he was put to death by popular vote, sacrificed by the crowd. doomed by the narrative and doomed by the audience. the boy who only ever tried to prove he was good enough--wasn't good enough.

because he has every reason to be angry. because he didn't ask to be murdered, didn't ask to be brought back, and when he did everyone acted like he was better off dead. Bruce tried to kill him and nearly succeeded. he's blamed for his own death and blamed for his resurrection. he can never come home because the house is haunted by his own ghost.

because he's been the hero, the victim, and the villain. because his family and his writers and his universe don't know what to make of him. they don't know how to look his tragedy in the eye. and how can you?

it hurts to look at the hero who cannot be good enough, the victim who will only ever be angry, the villain who can sometimes be right. the audience hates to feel complicit and, in this exceptional case, they are.

[lilacsandlillies]

I was going through the anti Jason Todd tag because I hate myself and want to understand where people who dislike him are coming from and one thing I kept seeing was annoyance at Jason fans who claim that Jason is female coded and realized that the term “female coded” might not be the best term to describe what we mean.

A female coded character in literature and media typically means a character that has no specified gender or otherwise does not have a gender but is obviously meant to be a stand in for a woman or female. Kind of like how Starfire has no specified race (due to being an alien) but is still obviously black coded based on the way she’s drawn and treated by the narrative.

This is slightly different than what we mean when saying that Jason is female coded. It’s not that Jason is literally supposed to be a stand in for a female character, it’s that the way a lot of characters treat him and a lot of the tropes used on him are things that usually saved for female characters, not big buff men like Jason.

To start with, being Robin is narratively (or at least was) very similar to being a woman in a story. Robin is a role made to complement Batman (who we all know is basically the ultimate male power fantasy). Robin’s role is to be an accessory to Batman. Robin can be smart, but not smarter than Batman. Robin can be strong, but not stronger than Batman. Hell, Robin is often kidnapped and used as a literal damsel in distress, a role often regulated for women as a whole.

What sets Jason apart from the other robins (except for Steph) in this regard is that they were allowed to be characters outside of Batman. Dick might not have been the “man” of the story when he’s with Bruce, but when he’s with the teen titans suddenly he’s the smart one who has all the answers. Jason’s Robin was never really allowed this.

Then we get to the most, controversial, part of Jason’s female coding. The fact the he was effectively fridged. Fridging is usually only referred to as frigding if it’s a female character, but Jason’s death checks pretty much all the other boxes needed. An incredibly brutal death that was more about Bruce’s feelings on it than Jason himself.

This is especially apparent when compared to the other Bat characters. For all the female coding, the only other Robin to actually be fridged was Steph (and we all know about the misogyny surrounding her death). Barbara was also kind of fridged during the killing Joke. The only female character to escape this is Cass (to my knowledge). When you look at it through this lens, the fact that the only other characters to be permanently damaged like this for Bruce’s story are female, it’s not hard to see where the idea that Jason is female coded comes from.

You can even find this in Jason’s origin story. Poor little orphan is saved by benevolent billionaire is a role usually saved for little girls, like in Annie.

Despite what you might think, this even continues after Jason’s revival. Jason is still used less as a character and more as a motivation for Bruce. He’s regularly called emotional and hysterical (terms usually used to refer to women).

Jason is first and foremost a victim. A role performed by women in most media. Men are expected to be stoic and “rise above” the things done to them as to not be victims, as continuously shown by the way characters like Nightwing are not allowed to be effected by the horrific things they go through. The fact that Jason is shown the be angry, and sad, and emotional, constantly, and the fact that he’s punished and vilified for it puts him in a place much more similar to a female character.

There’s a reason that so many Jason fans (that like him for a reason past “antihero with guns”) are female. For most characters, when you swap their genders there would be a pretty clear and big difference in the way their story takes place. If you swap Jason’s gender, the story takes place identically.

A lot of this is best shown in men’s reactions to Arkham Knight’s version of Jason. In that game, Jason is similarly angry and emotional, albeit for slightly different reasons. He is also still unmistakably a victim. You’d think the men playing would like him. After all he’s a big cool angsty guy with a lot of guns and muscles. Instead, a lot of men’s thought that he was whiny. That his feelings were annoying.

There’s also something to be said about how his autonomy is regularly undermined by Bruce (specifically in Gotham war) and how his decisions and feeling are constantly treated as if they’re worth less than Bruce’s, but that’s a discussion for another day.

[autisticrosewilson]

While we're on the topic of De-aging AU's I wanna talk about Jason and Damian if Jason was 14 again real quick.

Do you guys think that Damian looks at this version of Jason, so different from the version he knows, nothing like the person he was told Jason was, and feels uncomfortably seen?

Damian was always told that Jason died because he was reckless, because he disobeyed orders, he was fired as Robin and he got himself killed. A cautionary tale, not a threat to his position. He dismisses Jason because Bruce does, because Dick does, because sometimes even Babs and Alfred do.

That's not the kid that he's looking at now. This Jason is happy, and smart, and full of love that has not yet soured into grief. He hangs on Bruce's every word, trains until his hands bleed and his body gives out to perfect the moves Bruce teaches him. He looks at Bruce with stars in his eyes and he calls him dad.

And Damian can't help but think, that this is the perfect Robin. The perfect son. And if Jason - sweet, loving, strong, Jason - can be fired, can die and have his room locked away and his pictures torn down, can have his last memory as Robin be as A Good Soldier, how could the rest of them ever compete? What could Damian do to stand a chance?

Jason will never grow out of the shadow of Robin, like the rest of them did. As long as Bruce, and Dick, and Babs, and Alfred look at him and see a dead kid who came back wrong, he will never get to be anything else. He will not get to be looked at through who he is now without the shadow of a dead boy looming over him.

And the worst part? Jason is exactly the same person he was back then. Bitter, sure, angry, justifiably, but he is still the boy with too much love in his heart and righteous fury festering in his gut. He is exactly the same boy who threw himself in front of an explosion to save his mother.

(The lines between the mother that betrayed him and the father that disgraced him are so very blurred. Fire or blade or crowbars or fists it does not matter. It ends the same way it always does because Jason Todd always dies, in every universe, in every timeline, Jason dies and crawls out only to be killed again and again and again.)

[undertheredhood]

the rest of the justice league: hey man, we get that he’s your son and all, but shouldn’t you do something about him?

bruce ‘that’s my precious baby boy’ wayne: i’m sorry, did you have to hold your son as he was dying in your arms? did you almost k*ll yourself trying to follow him to the afterlife? i don’t think so.

[ghost-bxrd]

Do you have any more selkie Jason Todd headcanons? 🙏🏽

Of course! 🦭

Jason’s pelt never loses the baby white of seal pups after his death

Dick spends hours watching YouTube videos with seals and trying to imitate their calls

Alfred sneakily tries to incorporate a good amount of seafood into everyone’s diet. Jason hates to admit that he loves eating sushi

Once during a trip to the coast Jason runs into an exiled Orm. Selkies are sacrosanct to Atlanteans, so when Orm sees Bruce holding Jason’s coat it’s not a good day for anybody. Jason snatches his pelt and leaps straight into the water because he thinks he’s about to be trafficked

Orm and Bruce track Jason down with Arthur’s help after two days of panicked searching. Jason is huddled in the back of a cave and refuses to come out until they get Alfred on the phone

Dick absolutely loses his shit when he finds out nobody bothered to tell him that his baby brother was missing for two days

Jason is inconsolable the entire time he’s with the League (before the pit) until Talia takes him to an oasis by chance and Jason just—- melts into the water, calming down and relaxing for the first time.

When Jason returns to Gotham as the Red Hood he is desperate to find out what happened to his sealskin, terrified that Bruce had it destroyed after his death

Jason steals his skin back (let’s go with “the pelt was in the glass case along with the suit” version) and lords it over the furious bats, gleeful to see them collectively use their shit over his blatant disrespect for it

Tim is angry enough at Hood for disrespecting his Robin like that he doesn’t shy away from confronting him about it during patrol, Jason is both pissed and amused by the audacity

I know I mentioned it in the previous ask already but I feel like it bears repeating: when Hood hints at using Jason’s pelt as a “trophy” or a “rug”, Nightwing goes downright feral in his quest to retrieve his baby brother’s sealskin, and Batman isn’t faring much better

[bonniesfamiliar]

The bat brothers really know how to make me cry. Especially their parallels.

Dick Grayson: Dick is the OG angry Robin, not Jason and I hate how no one remembers that Dick is the angry one who became Robin to get revenge on his parent's killer.

Jason Todd: Jason became Robin because he figured out Bruce's identity after finding the Batcave and was a huge literature nerd and bookworm who went to school on time and arrived at his classes early because he LOVED to learn. HE ONLY BECAME THE ANGRY ROBIN BECAUSE EVERYONE SAID HE'D NEVER AMOUNT TO THE LEGACY THAT DICK LEFT BEHIND.

Tim Drake: Tim (MY BABY) became Robin because Batman was killing himself and was losing his morals. The very thing that made him Batman. Tim didn't get the father that Dick and Jason got. No. Tim got Bruce trying to shove him away at every moment and Tim trained with Batman, not BatDad. He mainly trained with Lady Shiva since Bruce shipped him off.

Tim & Duke: These two make me cry. You got Tim who was tortured and moulded into Joker Junior  (in Batman Beyond: Return of The Joker) whereas Duke's parents were victims of Joker's laughing gas and I really hate how no one pulls these two into a fanfic together and makes them get therapy.

Damian Wayne and Tim Drake have to be the saddest pair of brothers (after Jason Todd and Dick Grayson) I have ever met.

Damian has been told his entire life that he's a weapon and the only thing he's good at is being a weapon but Tim has been told his entire life that he's nothing but a tool to be used and discarded when he no longer has a use.

Yh.

These brothers really make me cry.

[pinkcowzz]

i like to hc that tim drakes worst trait is being a guilt tripper.

i don't think many people would argue that the batfamily has done some nasty shit to tim. bruce's dismissal when tim first started training, dick giving away the robin mantle without consulting tim, damian's & jason's murder attempts, alfred's silent complicity. tim has led a traumatizing life.

however! when put into their original context, the actions (except alfreds i love him but his compliance is so unforgivable in my eyes tbh) of the family make sense. bruce was grieving his dead son, of course he didn't want to take someone else's kid under his wing. dick had so much on his plate of course he thought tim could handle himself. jason was back from the dead and thought his family had replaced him without another care and damian felt so threatened and out of water in gotham he wanted to prove himself the only way he knew how at the time.

but tim? tim holds grudges. he is constantly angry and seething but he waits. he waits until a small minor disagreement occurs and pulls up the past to shame his family into giving him his way.

bruce doesn't want to approve a mission because it puts tim under unnecessary risks? "oh so you still don't trust me bruce. no it's fine, i understand. i'll hand off this mission to dick or damian since they're better suited for it. " how could bruce not change his mind. "no tim it's not that. of course i trust you i just wanted to make sure you were being safe. it's your call."

dick is busy juggling (circus pun intended) the titans and his job and patrols in bludhaven and his social life and his relationship with babs and his commitment to damian and "sorry tim i can't hang out this week. can we schedule something for next month?" and tim pulls his famous "oh no it's fine. don't even worry about me i'll just...well maybe cass is free to see the movie with me. i just figured since we haven't spent all that much time together since i brought bruce back it'd be nice to spend time out of the masks together...but it's fine." and dick is suddenly choking on the guilt of firing tim and the chasm that separates them now.

damian is being a regular angsty teen and is being rude to tim? "geez damian i thought you grew out of this phase. you haven't insulted me like that since you first got here. whatever you want blood son" and damian is suddenly doubting his place in the family again because if they kicked todd out because of his anger and violence where does that leave him. and the next day damian leaves a drawing for tim to find as an apology.

and maybe it's just my middle child syndrome speaking but i also think that jason is the only one who sees tims stunts for what they are. jason will get a text from dick in the middle of the night saying "i may never understand why you do what you do but i am here to back you up if you ever need me. just call. love you little wing" and jason is rolling his eyes and texting tim "wtf did you tell dick and why is being brotherly to me? as someone who tried to kill you over the grudge i was holding you really need to let yours go"

idk. just something to think about.

[millyhelp]

Back to you.

OKAY. I had this idea while I was washing dishes. Just tell me if I should write this or not! (Just a preread to see if at least one person will like this)

warnings: angst, fluff and a bit of stalk

Back to you masterlist.

Dating a Robin was magical. Him showing up at your window at night and running around the mansion to hide from an angry Alfred about having his cookies stolen was just incredible. But no one told you that you would lose your boyfriend one day.

The risk was always clear and you were aware of the danger that Jason was in, but you had never imagined that the Joker would kidnap and kill him.

When Bruce told you it was like losing a part of you. Half of your soul ripped out and killed prematurely.

You cried for weeks. You fainted when you saw his body in that coffin. The love of your life was dead.

You spent months in deep grief and depression. You thought about giving up and even killing the joker, but how could you? she was just another ordinary civilian.

Two, three years passed. You entered therapy and had asked Bruce for help. You wanted to set up an NGO, with the name Jason, of course. You wanted to help the children and teenagers who suffered on the streets of crime alley just like Jason suffered.

Bruce agreed and gave you all the financial support you needed.

Jason Peter Todd Association for children and teenagers in need. That was the name you said with pride and love.

Over time, this helped you try to get over Jason's death. Seeing the smiles on those children's faces made you smile again.

It was already the fourth year since Jason's death. You always visited Jason's grave to lay flowers. It was a tradition to go to his grave on weekends and sit down to read a Jane Austen or Shakespeare classic.

In the fifth year you had already expanded the NGO. It was already in other poor parts of the city.

And suddenly, more donations began to appear, and much higher than Bruce's. It scared you and made you curious. They were all always in Red Hood's name.

Some time later, crime decreased and the sale of drugs to children was no longer happening. In the news the name Red Hood was always mentioned.

He was the new Prince of Crime. For you, it doesn't matter, he's helping children and protecting them from crime.

But things were getting strange. Flowers appeared on the doorstep of you apartment, boxes with classic limited edition books and chocolates (your favorites), and all with the same signature. RedHood.

This was scaring you. Who is this guy? And why you?

[prince-dork-the-companion]

Batfamily Presentation Night - Pizza - Jason

Masterlist

Jason: Alright fuckers, my turn.

Tim: Uh oh.

Steph: This is going to go one of two ways.

Steph: Okay, I now know which way this is going.

Jason: For the record, I made this presentation last night after accidentally making eye contact with Bruce, so if I seem very angry, that's why - and it's mostly justified. Damian, I don't hate your pizza that much, but it's still bad.

Damian: You're just jealous.

Duke: I respect using your status as a criminal like it's a title.

Jason: It's my full legal name, actually.

Dick: EXCUSE ME?

Babs: Jay, are you really going to turn against me like this?

Jason: I stand by this entirely. Cheese pizza is boring and no one likes Dick Grayson.

Duke: I think he's pretty cool.

Jason: You haven't known him long enough.

Dick: :(

Cass: I like Dick.

Tim: [snorts]

Babs: I - You do know -

Jason: Again, I stand by everything stated on this slide.

Duke: This is oddly philosophical.

Steph: Jason you're no longer my favourite Robin.

Jason: You act like I care at all.

Duke: Man I'm just sitting here and I'm just being ATTACKED on ALL FRONTS.

Steph: PINEAPPLE DOESN'T BELONG ON FUCKING PIZZA YOU HETHAN.

Bruce: Stephanie, get off the table.

Steph: Stfu Bruce you're old.

Bruce: ...

Tim: [sips coffee loudly] I dunno what all the fuss is about, it's just Pizza.

Steph: Shut up Tim you're a war criminal.

Damian: I don't mind the taste of pineapple on pizza. It's not bad, but I don't understand why you're so angry about it, Brown.

Steph: I hate this FUCKING FAMILY.

Cass: You love us. :)

Damian: TODD -

Bruce: Damian, off the table. Don't try to stab your brother.

Jason: He can try.

Damian: This is why Mother didn't want you around me.

Steph: WOAH -

[Long, collective silence]

Steph: Bruce what?

Bruce: I don't like getting grease on my fingers.

Steph: BRUCE WHAT?

Tim: The disrespect on this slide.

Steph: WE CANNOT GLOSS OVER BRUCE EATING WITH A FORK AND KNIFE.

Duke: Rich people...

Jason: You're one of us now, Shrimp.

Duke: Aw, shit.

Duke: The animosity...

Dick: I'm on the edge of my seat.

Tim: Not the STOCK image.

[uproar]

Steph: WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK, JASON?

Dick: HUH?

Damian: You put... fish on your pizza? Todd, what has gotten into you?

Duke: I'm gonna hyperventilate.

Tim: Lord, give me strength...

Duke: All of you were hating on MY TASTE, meanwhile Jason was RIGHT HERE the WHOLE TIME.

Steph: You're going to hell. Straight, DIRECTLY to hell.

Babs: Because nothing else Jason has ever done will land him in hell.

Steph: EVERYTHING ELSE HE DID WAS JUSTIFIED.

Bruce: Stephanie...

Steph: YOU CAN'T DEFEND THIS BRUCE HE PUT FUCKING FISH ON PIZZA.

Steph: NO, NOTHING you say is going to fix this Jason. I'm disowning you.

Tim: Half the time you aren't even one of us because -

Steph: SHUT UP DRAKE!! I'M GOING THROUGH A BREAKDOWN RIGHT NOW LEAVE ME ALONE. This is it this is my Jason Arc.

Duke: [loud breathing]

Damian: This whole event is unnecessary. I've got better things to do -

Jason: If I can't escape family bonding time, you can't escape family bonding time.

Damian: Tt.

Tim: Steph, are you good now?

Steph: No. I'm never going to recover from this.

Duke: I am no longer hyperventilating.

Dick: Let's just - move on -

Tim: I'll go next.

Steph: Uh oh.

TO BE CONTINUED

[bruciemilf]

There's something deeply touching about Jason knowing he'll never be the kid Bruce saved again, but still maintaining some quirks, mannerisms, habits, pieces of young Jason Todd. They're small but cut deep.

Jason, when he allows himself to stay at the manor as a tiny indulgence, still acts like there's a barrier of lasers protecting Alfred's cookie jar, just so he and Dick would have an excuse to compare leaps.

He's still waiting for the lights to fall asleep so he could visit the library and get angry at Tim, or Bruce, or both, twins in audacity, for dig earing the pages they knew he'd read.

Of course Bruce finds him because he always looks for him, ridiculously fluffy pink robe that Selina bought him sagging on him.

He ignores the ball of sadness exploding in his stomach as he realizes Bruce is the one looking up at him now. It feels like a robbery, premeditated and calculated, " Jaylad, you have to nap."

" Bruce, I am a grown ass man, you cannot fucking tell me to NAP--"

There's an unspoken type of authority that surrounds gentle parents. Is Bruce a gentle parent? Well. He doesn’t need to hit Jason to get what he wants, that's for sure, " Excuse me?"

"...Just one more page?"

Bruce is also very weak for them, thought. "..Fine. don't tell Alfred."

When Dick proudly shows off his patrol record for the week, all preppy and shiny besides Bruce at the kitchen table, Jason hears it all the way from the couch.

Damian is a very sore loser when it comes to Mario Kart, he learned, " Todd! TODD! Come back here and taste DEFEAT! FIGHT ME LIKE A WOMAN, COWARD!"

" So yeah, 40 arrests are pretty good, I'd say,--"

" 40? That's adorable, I got 70. On a broken leg."

Bruce, suddenly spooked, turns to him, " You had your leg broken on patrol?!"

" A broken leg? Awwww. Killer Crock almost bit my face off, but hey. Nice of you to try."

"Waylon bit you?!"

" At least I'm not a COP!"

" YOU'RE STILL A COP?!"

" I'm working on it, okay?!"

But the biggest thing? Jason's so unflinchingly clingy on Bruce; When they first meet this 'Justice League' Batman joined, Jason requested to be there. A robin caricature, but he doesn't trust any of them.

Aside from Diana. Diana's always the exceptions.

" This is Superman, " Bruce may think that little blush goes unnoticed, but it certainly doesn't. " And this is my ba-- This is Red Hood. I trust him with my life."

Don't cry don't cry don't cry Jason chants in his head.

Superman extends his hand and a honey sunshine smile, " Red Hood?! Oh, I've heard so much about you. We have to work together sometime. Share stories about this one here."

He heard about the guy's X Ray vision. He hopes that if he does take a peek, he sees the sinister pull of grin on his lips, all teeth and no niceness, " I'm more of a hugger."

" Oh. Uh... Sure. I love hugs."

Jason makes sure to whisper, " He doesn't kill but I do," before pulling away. Then he turns to Bruce, going from standing at his full height to relaxing a little bit,

" I want bat burgers on the way."

Bruce hums and signals for him to lean down to get his head petted. Jason does. Even if he's embarassed.