#people can say they just hated jason because they liked dick better but let's be real

[thenonbinarydetective]

Things batfam stans need to leave behind in 2023:

Jason's Lazarus pit rage

Thinking Tim's parents were horribly abusive and hated him

Only caring about Stephanie in terms of her relationship to another person (ex: Tim's bestie/ex/gf or Cass' gf/bestie)

Treating Jason or Stephanie like they're stupid

Feral Demon Child Damian

Permanent sunshine boy Dick Grayson

Any "[blank] was the real violent Robin" discourse

Really just any reducing or sectioning of certain traits to certain batfam members and not allowing other characters to exhibit those same traits (ex: see sunshine Dick Grayson)

But also stealing traits from other characters and projecting them onto someone else (ex: Jason getting Dick's personality in fics. He is not the same type of big brother Dick is canonically)

Purposefully mischaracterizing characters for angst (ex: Dick sent Tim to Arkham, my beloathed. also again see Tim's parents)

Trying really hard to nuclearize the family. They are an unconventional family for many reasons, and that's why they're interesting.

"Alfred solos the batfam"

Making Duke "the normal one" and completely forgetting to give him an actual personality.

Cass using sign language because she can read body language (note: does not apply to YJ Cass who has damaged vocal chords)

Cass being used as a prop for her brothers

Tim being weak, woobified baby

Feel free to add on ~~

Don't send hate over these things because idgaf, they are harmful mischaracterizations, and many are built on total ignorance and often racism, classism, ableism, and sexism.

[mikakuna]

i don't think we talk enough about how genuinely fucked it was that people called in to vote on a child character's death. like yeah he's fictional but also what the fuck

[i-cant-sing]

Jason with baby reader whose very affectionate with him but a total menace with everyone else?

Platonic Yandere Batfam x reader

Yesss obviously 💖💖💖 okay but like imagine something with me:

Reader being the youngest addition to the batfam, could be Bruce's bio kid or not, doesn't really matter. The only reason she even ended up at the Wayne Manor was because perhaps Gordon kinda begged Bruce to take you in because he doesn't want you to end in the horrible foster system of Gotham, just asking Bruce to look after you for a couple of months until Gordon can find a good home and adopt you himself.

Anyways, that doesn't happen because Gordon dies. So what was supposed to be a few months, ended up being an indefinite stay.

Okay usually this would be the point when their yandere tendencies start to show but let's say this time- it don't happen.

Look Bruce and the batfam are like super busy with that crime fighting life, believe it or not, vigilant-y life takes a lot of their time. When their not busy saving Gotham, they're either at home resting and recovering, or at work/school. They simply do not have time for family bonding.

Or so you thought.

You've seen the boys going to the "secret" batcave (u found out soon about their hero identities, cause you're smart like that.) and they spend a lot of time training, so they're definitely bonding. While you don't reveal that you already know about their identities and continue to play the fool, it still kinda... hurts to be surrounded by so many people who are supposed to be "family" yet don't treat you as such. Damian snaps at you anytime you ask if you could join him and the others on anything theire doing- even something as simple as just playing video games.

(And then i found out about Damian and Dick being each others fav siblings) Dick tries to be amicable but even he'd turn down hanging with you in favour of taking Damian out to the carnival, saying something along the lines of "Oh Y/n, its just- I haven't seen Damian in a looong time, and it'd be unfair to him if I brought you along because he's just been lookin forward to this outing for so long. Maybe we can do something next time?" But next time doesn't come around, with Dick always prioritising Damian over you.

You thought that Tim would be easier to spend time with, since he's home a lot more than others, but he's a workaholic to the core, and even of you did swing by with a coffee, just to check up on him, he'd plain out tell you to leave, to bother someone else because he just doesn't have the time. And yet there he was, talking for hours on the phone with Conner.

Jason was nice to you even though you initially thought he'd hate you like he hated Damian and well... his other brothers and Bruce as well. But surprisingly, you got along with him. Probably because he thought of you as this sweet kid who didn't know any better about the world, who just needs to be shielded by Gotham and more importantly- Bruce. Maybe that's why Jason talked to you- you're the only one in the house who's not a hero. Maybe that's what he needed: a healthy relationship with someone normal. And it would've been great if he actually hung around more than an hour. No, he was far too busy with ending criminals, or as he liked to tell you "my job doesn't allow me any holidays. Also, I hate Bruce and would swallow a cactus than stay in his home." But at least he brought you souvenirs from the around the world! His "job" had him travelling the world.

Perhaps the boys are just too busy, or don't like spending time with girls, so you decided to go to Bruce. But he's always busy, either with work or with Gotham, or with one of his sons. He is aware of your presence, he just doesn't exactly know what to do about it. With you not being a vigilante or exhibiting any qualities that he would deem extraordinary or impressive, he doesn't know what to do with you. Sure, he's set you an account where he's given you more than enough money to cover all your expenses and everything else, but that's all he gives. Just financing you until you're independent. He doesn't check in with you, not really interested in your average life, and he won't say it out loud but sometimes, he may have even forgotten about you. A few times, he may have taken you along with him to some galas with his sons, and when you're alone with him, you can sense that he's not... pleased? Content? Happy? Sure, he puts an arm around your shoulder and smiles for the cameras, but you can see the way his eyes wander around the room to find something more interesting, more worthy of his attention. The way he taps his fingers with unease, giving you curt replies and dismissive smiles when you tried to talk about schoo or anything, it all made you realise that you are not a child in his eyes.

You are a burden.

No. No, that couldn't possibly be the case. I mean, he took you in. Bruce wouldn't do that if he didn't care about you, right?

Still, to test that theory, you left the gala, alone and without informing anyone. Surely, he or one of the boys would notice your absence. Surely.

They didn't, even as the gala ended, they all left in their own cars, no one even thought to stop and wonder if you were riding with any of them. Hurt and depressed, you made the stupid decision of walking home in your fancy gown. Of course you'd be pulled in the alleyway and be mugged. The low lives decided that they wanted more than just your money, and when you realised their vile intentions, you began thrashing in their arms to break free, resulting in one of them punching your face repeatedly. Just when you thought all was lost, suddenly those pervs were thrown off you and were shot dead. You looked up and were surprised to find out who was your saviour-

Red Hood.

"Jason?"

"Y/n? I mean, who?" Jason was shocked to see you here, more so when you recognised it was him under the mask.

You rolled your eyes. "You can drop the act, Jay. I've known for a while." You groaned in pain as he helped you up. "Shit, you okay?" He asked, helping you walk towards a nearby bench. "Yeah. I mean I got mugged, but yeah..."

"Wait, what are you even doing out here this late?" You told him about the gala. "Soooo... why didn't you go home with them?"

You shrugged. "Just needed to confirm something."

"Yeah? And what's that?"

You remained silent, not wanting to discuss the topic further. Jason sighed before pulling out his phone. "I'm gonna call, Alfred. Have him send a car so pick you up." You grabbed his hand before he could dial.

"I cant- I don't want to go home." He raised a brow. "Why? What's wrong? Did Bruce do something? I swear to god I'll beat-" you shook your head. "No, Jay- look, I just need a break. If it's not too much to ask, can I spend the night with you? Or you can lend me some money and I'll stay at a hotel or something. Promise I'll go back home tomorrow."

Jason stared at you, trying to figure what's bothering you, but he also didn't want to push you by asking. So he nodded. "Of course, you can stay with me tonight. But only if you promise to make me your delicious chocolate chip cookies tomorrow." You smiled, nodding.

Jason took you to his apartment, cleaned up your wounds, cooked you dinner, cracked some jokes and then tucked you in bed. He actually tucked you in bed. He'd never know, but that simple gesture had you crying until you finally fell asleep.

When you returned home the next day, you weren't really surprised that no one had noticed you didn't return home last night.

No one in that house even knew how you were almost rap-

"Miss Y/n?" Alfred called from the kitchen, eyes wide as he took in your bruised face. "What happened? Are you alright?"

You nodded. "Yeah. I fell on the concrete pavement, someone pushed me accidentally-"

"Alfred?!" Bruce called from the dining room.

"You better go. And Alfred-" He stopped. "-don't mention this to him. I don't want him to worry over nothing."

Alfred nodded, leaving to serve Bruce and the boys breakfast. You don't think he'd tell Bruce and even if he did, you don't think he'd actually worry-

"Y/n?" Bruce was standing at your door, eyes narrowing at your face. "Alfred told me you fell?" He walked upto you, inspecting your face. Wait, did he actually came to check up on-

"How many times did you fell? Face first? Because that's a lot of bruises."

"It was a concrete pavement."

"We don't have concrete pavements in the house."

"I was out leaving from a cafe when I fell. Just wanted to eat some bagels." You continued to lie.

Bruce narrowed his eye at you before sighing. "Look, I don't have time for this. If you're in trouble, just tell me."

"I'm not."

"Then do you really expect me to believe that you fell? Is this a desperate cry for attention?" He pinched the bridge of his nose. "If you really did fall in public, "multiple times" as you claim, did you at least get a cab? I don't want anyone taking pictures of you like this and make headlines tomorrow about one of the Wayne kids being abused. I won't have you tarnish the family name."

What? Did he just- did he really say that?

"No. Its not-" you were interrupted by his phone ringing, and Bruce left you to take the call.

You sat there on your bed, dumbfounded and even more heartbroken than before, mind replaying the words over and over again, trying to make sense, make EXCUSES for him, that perhaps you misunderstood him.

But you didn't.

That day, you had finally given up on the batfam. You refused to make a fool of yourself any longer by hoping that one day they'd accept you. You were and always will be an outsider to them. You won't depend on him any longer, even for your finances.

Years went by and you worked hard on yourself to get admission in a highly prestigious college with a fully funded scholarship, all while you worked to handle your expenses. When you got your admission letter, you didn't even bother telling anyone at home about it. Instead, you went out for lunch with Jason to celebrate (who had been dropping by more regularly ever since that night you were mugged), who was more than overjoyed, ruffling your hair and telling you how proud he was of "the only sibling smart enough to bust him out of jail and retirement homes." Jason truly did want this for you- to be normal and go to college like other normal people.

You moved out of the Wayne Manor quietly and moved into your college dorms in a different city, where you found an even better job on the side. The job that now helped you save up enough money to start paying Bruce back for all the years he had to spend housing, clothing and feeding you.

After a couple of months, you were able to wrote your first cheque to Bruce. And if it weren't for the large sum of money and your name attached to it, Bruce wouldn't have realised that he hadn't talked or even seen you for a while. He didn't allow himself to feel guilty for thinking that he may have forgotten about your existence for quite some time.

Picking up the phone, he called you and asked you about the cheque.

"I'm paying you back." Bruce was a little surprised to hear the monotonous tone.

"For?"

"The money you spent on me all these years?"

"Why? And how are you even paying?"

"I've got a job." What? When did this happen? "Look, I gotta go. I have class." You cut the call, and what class? As far as he remembers, Alfred had said something about attending your high-school graduation earlier this year.

Were you in college?

No, no. If you were attending college, he would know. Surely, you'd tell him. And even if you didn't or he forgot, he would remember paying for your tuition. Or maybe he already was, from the account in your name where he sent monthly payments.

Curious, he called the bank, only to be informed that you haven't used the account in years! They did inform him that you opened a separate account, and since Bruce owned the bank, they let him see the account and what you've using it for.

That's how he found out about your college.

You were just leaving your class to go home when you spotted him leaving the Dean's office. Apparently you were not the only one who spotted him, as your classmates all started talking about the famous Bruce Wayne. As Bruce's eyes met yours, you immediately turned and walked the opposite way until you had left the campus, and you went home.

You weren't surprised to see his car outside your apartment. But you were a little surprised to see him in sitting inside your apartment, sitting on the couch with an unamused expression.

"What do you want?" You asked, dropping your bag.

Bruce raised a brow at you. "What? No, hello?" He sighed. "Why did you leave the campus after seeing me?"

"I don't want to be associated with you."

His gaze turned stern. "Why? Are you embarrassed?"

No, I hate you. "No one will take me seriously if they knew I was related to you. I just want to be-"

"-independent? Is that why you sent me this cheque?" Bruce pulled out the piece of paper and dropped it on your coffee table. "Why are you doing this?"

"I told you, I just wanted to pay you off."

"You don't need to. You're family."

Only on paper. You thought.

You shrugged. "Doesnt matter. I'm paying you back every cent."

Bruce stood up, walking right in front of you and it was just then that he realised how much you'd grown up. You looked nothing like the scared little kid who was always peeking from around corners. You had matured, far too much for your age. He could see the little bags under your eyes, the wrinkles on your forehead, the disdain in your eyes.

"Why are you trying to cut me out of your life?" Before you could argue, he put a hand up. "I saw the documents. You didn't list "Wayne" as a surname on your college documents. You're trying to distance yourself from the Wayne name? Are you in trouble? Have you done something... dishonourable?"

You scoffed. All these years and all he cares about is his public image.

"Dont worry, I haven't done anything to bring down your family name." You spat. "Look, just take the cheque and leave. You'll never hear from me again, either in the media or otherwise."

Bruce glared at you, clearly slighted. "You're being difficult for no reason." You had to bite your tongue to stop yourself from going off on him.

He turned around to leave, not bothering to pick up the cheque.

"How'd you get inside?" You asked when he opened the door. You wanted to know, especially since you took all the right measures Jason taught you to stop anyone from breaking in.

He looked over his shoulder and smiled.

"I bought the building."

-

You moved to a new place the next day, after you found out that the landlord refused to accept payments from you, since "your father owns the building. You don't need to pay rent." You wish it was easier to change schools though because apparently the everyone now knows you're Bruce Wayne's kid, which everyone figured out when someone called "Y/n WAYNE, please report to the Dean's office", who showed you that he had the college administration fix the little mess up of "forgetting to add Wayne to your name in all the documents" and then told you that he's very grateful to your father for his very generous donation to the college.

Bruce didn't bother you much after that interaction, except for monthly cheques and cash he'd send you, but you're never using cashing them. He also sends you regular invites to galas and social gatherings or even family dinner at home. You don't go to Wayne Manor anymore, not unless absolutely necessary.

Like today, when Bruce called you to come home for a "family portrait" for a magazine or something because the article is covering about all the Wayne kids.

You could already feel your throat closing up as the Manor came into view. You were greeted at the door by Alfred, the man saying he missed your presence at the manor. You just smiled and nodded.

"No luggage?" He inquired, noting that you only brought backpack.

"No. I won't be staying long."

You started making your way towards your room when you passed Damian's room.

"Y/n?" Dick called out, surprised to see you after so long. Or at all? You'd wonder.

"Hey." You said, eyes darting from him to the room where Tim and Damian were, both just as stunned to see you there.

"So, um... how are you?" Dick asked, unsure how to proceed this conversation.

"Great." You replied before turning around and walking to your room, leaving the boys befuddled.

Luckily, the photographer came soon and started with the shoot, and if it weren't for the photographer continuing to tell you to scoot closer to your brothers until Dick just pulled you and you ended up being squished in between them. Had Jason been here, things would be way more comfortable. But since he's been declared dead to the world, he can't be a part of the family portrait.

And later on, its time for dinner and reader is leaving but Bruce calls her back, telling her to at least stay for dinner if not for the night, and you tell him "I can't, exams are coming up." And he replies "really? The schedule your Dean sent me doesn't show any exams coming up." And after some back and forth, you finally sit down at the dinner table, chewing your food silently while the others talked. You were almost finished and this miserable reunion was coming to an end when one of them started to talk about something that triggered you.

It could be anything, from badmouthing Jason to even telling you to get off your high horse and stop thinking that you're better than them just because you've been living on your own and shit.

That's when you just couldn't hold back your anger and went off on them. Everything you'd experienced, all the emotional abuse and neglect you'd been subjected to from them, you told it all.

With tears in your eyes, you left the manor, only to be kidnapped by the Joker. Bruce and his sons didnt say anything to each other that night, except for replaying your words over and over again, simmering in their own guilt silently. Well, that was until-

"She wouldn't know the sacrifices we had to make to keep her blissfully unaware and ignorant of all the crime outside!" Damian yelled. "Just to keep her wrapped up in this bubble, outside of which is a world where she wouldn't ever truly survive if it wasn't for us!"

"Damian-" Dick sighed frustratedly. "-she never asked us to do this all. We chose this life, long before she came along. It's unfair."

"Unfair??? Then how could she claim she didn't feel "protected" when all we've done is slave over making this hellhole safe! How can she say that from the comfort of this home? She's nothing but ungrateful to us and to father! I'm telling you Grayson, if the tables were turned, she wouldn't ever make the sacrifices to save us!" Damian yelled before slamming the door on his way out.

Dick pinched the bridge of his nose, closing his eyes as he asked Tim. "Do you... think we've failed her?"

Tim was staring at the ceiling, keeping his thoughts to himself. He definitely felt guilty, he remembers the way he would dismiss you.

Tim's silence was enough answer for Dick, though the two didn't know what to do next.

Thankfully, Alfred did.

"Miss Y/n forgot her phone here last night. Should I parcel it-"

Tim was already out of his seat, grabbing it. "No, I'll take it to her." Turning around, he saw Dick also standing.

"We'll take it to her. Thanks Alfred."

-

10 hours later, the two brothers stood outside your apartment. They knocked, but you didn't answer.

"Maybe she's at college?" Dick wondered. "Wanna wait here or go- Tim, wait for me!" His younger brother was already down the stairs when they saw Jason outside.

"What are you two dimwits doing here?" Jason asked, actually surprised to see them there.

"Y/n forgot her phone." Tim said, pulling out your phone. "She's not home. We're going to her college."

Jason's brows furrowed. "Why? She doesn't have classes today. We were supposed to meet for breakfast."

Dick couldn't help but feel slightly jealous of your relationship with Jason. Were you always this close to him? And why Jason, he was home far less than any of them.

Jason moved past them to your apartment, a spare key in his hand. "Maybe she just doesn't want to see you two."

Again, Dick couldn't help the envy that creeped up on him at the sight of Jason using a spare key to let himself in, the feeling only intensifying when he spotted many frames with pictures of you and Jason together.

After checking the whole place, you weren't there. Now, it was time for Jason to start panicking, as he asked them what happened at the manor, and he blew up at them as well for pissing you off like that.

When they had confirmed that you weren't in college or had ever returned to the city yesterday, they all went into panic mode as they informed Bruce about you going missing.

They all rushed back to Gotham, where Bruce had already pulled up CCTV footage of the place where you were last seen, hearts dropping when they saw someone come up from behind and knock you out, before kidnapping you. But no matter how much they searched for you, how many goons they beat up, they couldn't find you.

It is during this time that their yandere tendencies start to develop.

And it wasn't until a week later when they received a hint about your whereabouts, and they finally found you, in a warehouse, chained to the ceiling, a shock collar around your neck, all bruised and beaten because come on, Joker ain't gonna go easy on you.

The torture he subjected you to, it was almost comparable to the one Jason had to suffer. You were unnervingly still, and they couldn't help but wonder whether you were... dead.

That was until the shock collar went off and you screamed as your body jolted, Joker's manically laughing in the shadows.

"She's a tough one, much better than the wannabe Robin! I've been shocking her, waterboarding her, whipping her all week but she refused to tell me your real identities! I was starting to believe her when she said she didn't know, but it's just fun seeing her writhe in pain-!"

They beat Joker up, while one of them takes the collar and chains off you. You'd passed out from pain and exhaustion, and when you woke up, you were back in your room at the manor. While you were unconscious, Jason did end up revealing about how you actually did know about them being vigilantes, further intensifying their guilt and increasing their yandere tendencies, after all they do realise how they've failed to protect you.

So the story from here progresses on to when reader is actually forced by the family to stay in the manor to heal, all while their need to protect you increases the more you refuse their help.

When your injuries have healed and you're ready to leave, but they don't let you. Bruce tries to approach you, gently telling you that you need to be at home with your family, where you're safe. He wants one more chance at righting all his wrongs, he won't shy away- he admits he's made mistakes in the past with you. You back away when he tries to come closer to you.

"You don't get to choose to make up for your mistakes when you feel guilty, not when I had to spend all those years learning to live with your horrible parenting."

Tim spoke up next, telling you to just listen to what he has to say, but you cut him off with a dismissive hand.

"This is how you used to brush me away whenever I came to you, like I was some sort of fly, always too busy, too much of a hassle to even reply to a simple hello. So, why should I give you my time of the day now?"

Dick tries the comforting approach too, surely you don't hate him as much since he wasn't even around that much in the first place to cause you any hurt, promising you that he will do better this time. But you shut him down quickly too.

"I was never a priority for you then. I used to sit on these stairs, waiting for you day and night to finally be able to spend time with you. I know better by now than to trust your false promises."

Damian had a melt down next because you insulted his favourite brother. He went off on you that you never had to suffer through the same trauma as he or any of them did. How it's unfair that you don't give them another chance, how you don't understand that the Wayne's aren't a perfect family because of all the horrible things they've had to and still do go through on a daily basis.

You stared at him for a few moments before replying.

"I was almost r*ped."

The room went deadly silent, Bruce's mouth agape, Damian's eyes widening, while Dick and Tim turned pale.

"The night we went to that gala, you guys all left without me. I was pulled in an alley, mugged and almost r*ped if it weren't for Jason." You chuckled dryly. "What's worse is that none of you even bothered to call me, or even noticed that I hadn't returned home that night. I could've been dead in a ditch and none of you would've noticed for months, if not years." You wiped the tear that escaped your eye. "None of you attended my graduation, none of you noticed I had left for college, not until I sent a cheque to Bruce. I've buried you all in my past, and if it helps you sleep at night, I have forgiven you as well but I will never forget."

You looked at Damian. "And just because you've gone through some shit Damian, doesn't mean I'm undeserving of love and respect. I've experienced traumatising incidents too but the difference between you and me is that I don't use them an excuse to be a fucking dickhead."

You heard a car honk from outside. "Jason's here to drive me home- my home."

But before you could take another step, Tim had injected you with something. You jumped back, holding the puncture wound on your neck.

"W-what did you do?!" You yelled at him, and Tim only shrugged. "What's necessary."

You heard another honk, and this time, you opened your mouth to yell for Jason, only to have a hand slap over your mouth, muffling your screams for help. It was Dick, as he quickly wrapped his arms around you and pulled you to his chest, dragging you away from the door as Bruce ordered Tim to put the whole house on lock down mode (essentially an impenetrable fortress), while Damian went outside to release his anger on Jason, both for failing as a brother to you (not that he'd ever admit it) and for Jason being clearly your favourite.

And from here on, you're being constantly coddled by the batfam (except for Jason since he does actually want to save u from the batfam). Bruce is always the first one to greet you every morning, and if you're still asleep when he comes, he might get away with patting your hair without you flinching away. He'd greet you, tell you he's expecting you to join him downstairs for breakfast. You simply turn your back to him, pulling the covers over your head, not bothering to reply to him, hoping to catch a break in this goddamn house.

You're only able to spare yourself for a few moments before the covers are yanked off you and you're greeted by the cheery voice of Dick. "Good morning, baby bird!" He'd yell before pulling you up and of the bed by your arms, and then to his chest, spinning you around as you try to escape his crushing grip. He's not fazed at all, mostly because he views you as a tiny little feral kitten who just needs a lot of love and snuggles. He drags you down for breakfast, everyone else already seated. You're seated between Dick and Bruce so that you can't run away, and also because Bruce makes it a habit of talking to you on various topics, usually about the book he'd leave on your bed. You would talk to him at first, but after a few weeks, you got bored with the silent treatment.

If its Dick's day with you, he spends most of the time trying to do anything and everything. No activity is off the table. Baking? Hell yes, but he's the only one who laughs after he intentionally throws flour at your face and fails at starting a food fight when you just leave. You wanna play board games? He's pulled out every board game in history and he very obviously let's you win. Movie night? He's build a fort (that he claims you two built together. You didn't, you just stood there while he built it.) And has all the classic films, pulls you close so that he can nuzzle his cheek with yours (again, not fazed by you trying to scratch his face off). Sometimes, he'd even bring you to the gymnasium (because Bruce can afford to build one in his house), where he lowkey forces you to learn about gymnastics, but at least he's a good spotter, cause you never get hurt.

If its Tim's day with you, he makes you spend the whole day just... with him. Look he's sleep deprived, he's lanky, he doesn't have a lot of energy like Dick or Damian, but what he does have is... perseverance. Tim will literally handcuff you to him if it means making sure you stay by his side. If he's getting coffee, youre getting coffee with him (he makes you a cup). If he's sleeping, you're right there, either get comfy and sleep next to him, or stay up and be bored because he's dead asleep. If he's in the batcave reviewing CCTV footage, you're there with him all day and even nights. He just wants to the remorse of dismissing you before to go, almost like he's trying to make up for all the time he wasn't there when you needed him, to now being in your business every second of the day.

If its Damian's turn with you, he's... weird. He doesn't actively make you do anything with him, it's more like having you observe him. He'd have you sit on the side and watch him train for hours on the end, rudely refusing to let you go do something else, or even train with him. He's playing with Titus? You're supposed to be watching him teach Titus tricks. He's going for a walk? No, you're the one who's walking while he's running laps past you. It's like he's trying to impress you to make up for his shitty words and behaviour.

As for Bruce, he likes to spend his time with you on a schedule. Have breakfast with him, then go on a jog around the estate, then accompany him to his home office where he works while you do college work (because obv, he shifted you to online education), and he definitely annoys you by standing over you while you study, not helping you until you ask for it but also not leaving so you feel intimidated under his stare and continue to make mistakes. Then have lunch at noon, followed by him giving you a puzzle or one of those fake crime files to solve, he likes to stimulate your brain and see how it works. This activity takes time so by the time you're done, Alfred has prepared supper. You both have dinner and then you both go to the library to read, because he wants to something less stimulating to the mind as your bedtime nears. Then he tucks you in bed, sits by your side and gives you a lot of positive affirmations (which he picked up from the parenting books in his library), before kissing the top of your head and leaving.

As for Jason, since he still insists on "saving" you, he's not allowed to see you. He can try breaking in all he want, he can't outsmart the Batman.

Or can he?

I had to type this on mobile with henna on my hands.

Yall better be grateful.

[celaenaeiln]

who do you think each bats' favourite sibling is canonically? i haven't seen much about this outside of super fanon stuff so i'm curious

Let's start with the easiest one!

Tim - Dick

Tim's favorite sibling but also favorite person ever is unquestionably, undoubtedly Dick. This boy adores his big brother. He's full-on obsessed with him.

His thoughts on Dick are just a compilation of praises about him and his inner dialogue simply consists of a series of hero worship.

Robin (1993) Issue #32

Red Robin Issue #23

Sometimes I ponder about Dick and Tim's relationship because I feel like what Tim wants from Dick isn't just a brother, I feel like he wants him to be a parent which is part of the reason why Tim and Damian don't get along.

Because the truth is, before Damian came along, Tim was Dick's robin first. And Tim loved it.

(This post was on hold for months because I needed that exact panel where Tim says to Dick "It's obvious he wants us to be the new batman and Robin." BuT i CaNt FiNd It. I literally give up, if anyone know what panel I'm referring to people reblog it with the panel and I'll upload it with the post)

Dick was Tim's Robin and everything he did he wanted to live up to him

Batman/Catwoman: The Gotham War: Scorched Earth

Look at what he says about Dick:

Batman: A Lonely Place of Dying

Even before Dick and Tim met again, Tim started working out just so he could be like his idol. Tim literally says to Dick "My grades are okay but I studied because I wanted to just like you."

You know what they say about idols and pedestals and never meeting your heroes? The opposite is true for Tim about Dick. After meeting Dick for the second time, his idol worship grew so much it shattered every ceiling in existence.

Tim loves him so so much. People sometimes misunderstand and think that Tim hated Dick when he fired him from Robin but it wasn't hate that Tim felt. It was jealousy. Jealousy over Dick choosing Damian over him.

Tim even solely used the Red Robin persona for the mere reason that he didn't want to dirty Dick's Robin by stigmatizing it with his less ethical actions.

Damian - Dick

Obviously. The only reason I said Tim was the easiest is because Tim's inner and outer thoughts about Dick can be complied to create volumes of fanbooks of flowing poetry about him. Damian on the other hand is more of a tsundere, but there's still only one person who he loves aside from his father and even more than.

Robin War Issue #1

If there were any doubts, I don't think this panel could be any clearer about who Damian's favorite is.

Stephanie - Cass

Batgirl (2000) Issue #38

Cass - Stephanie

Batgirls (2016) Issue #14

Damn.

Steph and Cass are each other's favorites

Detective Comics (1937) Issue #945

Duke - noone? everyone?

Like actually I can't pick out one person Duke likes the best. You're either on his wavelength or he's snarking you off it. He's the type of guy where everyone likes him and he's chilling by himself, doing whatever he wants.

Jason - Dick

Out of the batkids who did deal with Jason during his worst phase, Dick is unilaterally his favorite. Sometimes when I think about Jason's relationship with Bruce, I'm reminded of how much Jason and Bruce are alike sometimes because Jason's view on Dick is almost identical to Bruce's view on Dick and they even have similar reactions. We all know that Bruce hero-worships Dick. Time and time again, Bruce emphasizes, stresses, and talks about how amazing Dick is and how he's so much better than him, and constantly places Dick on a pedestal. The issue comes when Dick doesn't want to do what Bruce wants him to do because he believes that Dick is an extension of himself, his better half, and he's furious when Dick doesn't follow or accept what he's doing because Dick should know what Bruce is trying to do because he's supposed to be better than him, how dare he stop him, etc.

Jason acts in similar ways to Dick. There's a whole issue where Jason gets fear gassed and one of his biggest fears is Dick. More specifically, it's about how amazing Dick is and never living up to him because in Jason's eyes, Dick is absolutely perfect. There is no one better than him because he is the peak of everything. He places Dick on the highest pedestal there is and he kind of safeguards Dick there in his heart. He used to get really angry because he believes Dick is the best but also refuses to let Dick be anything other than the best. The best way I have to explain them is Jason holding Dick prisoner as a result of his hero worship.

Once Jason is slightly calmer, his relationship dynamics with everyone became really clear, as well as what he thinks of them and it's shown how the way he treats Dick is just different.

Task Force Z Issue #8

Grayson Issue #12

"You don't do that to your--you don't do that to another Robin!"

He was going to say brother 🥺🥺

In this scene, it's pretty obvious that Jason loves Dick a lot but he's obviously not going to be all fuzzy feelings about it because he likes to be edgy. Jason's a little confusing in general for people to understand because they expect him to be nice and open but Jason's not nice, he's just nicer to the people he likes. Once we start understanding that, he becomes clearer.

And to Dick -

Nightwing (2016) Issue #15

-He's exceptionally nicer.

DC's Ghouls Just Wanna Have Fun Issue #1

Another example of why Jason loves Dick the most is because in the comics, Jason doesn't work with anyone in the family unless he has to unless it's Dick because he chooses to work with Dick by choice.

Dick - Tim or Damian

Dick adores Tim so freaking much. He loves him so, so much.

Nightwing (1996) Issue #139

Catch me crying behind my sunglasses at Dick kissing Tim's head lovingly 😭

Robin (1993) Issue #12

I just love these soft touch moments Dick has with Tim. It's so incredibly sweet.

He was Tim's mentor

The New Titans (1988) Issue #65

and a really good one too.

He loves him-

Detective Comics (1937) Issue #696

-so much.

(I'd add more panels but I ran out of image space :'0)

I genuinely cannot say who he loves more at all. I can't even pick. I really do think he loves them evenly because when I think about leaning one side, more evidence comes to mind for the other side like a pair of counter weights.

Damian...I don't really need to say any words because the pictures speak for themselves

Batman (2016) Issue #34

Grayson Issue #12

aldskjdhkdjfhldfah;dh. Look at what he gave his son! A souvenir from the first time his dad met his mom because Dick knows how much Damian loves his parents <333!! There's nothing I can even say more.

Here's my previous post on Dick and Damian's relationship.

[deadsetobsessions]

Trigger Warning: blades, mild torture, injuries, and what amounts to suicidal thoughts and actions (he lives at the end but he does need a hell of a lot of therapy)

Tim shudders, as best he can while bleeding and bruised and broken.

The Red Hood is above him, mechanical voice melding into the raspy deeper tones of an Older Jason Todd. His voice is hollow and cruel as he digs his blade into Tim’s flesh. It hurts. But, Tim thinks dazedly, having Robin, Tim’s Robin, hating Tim hurts worse.

“Wow, Replacement, no last words for the person you stole everything away from?”

Jason’s mocking him.

“Okay.”

“What’s that, Replacement?”

Tim is so incredibly tired. And the blade held to his neck is starting to look like comfort. Tim thinks-

“My last words. You- You want to hear it?”

His hero’s face tilts, green eyes sparking something deep within Tim’s memory. But he’s so tired.

“Sure, let’s see what kind of recruitment pitch you’ve got for me, Replacement.”

Cruel. So cruel. Mocking him with false warmth. But false warmth is better than the coldness of Drake manor, the coldness of Bruce’s grieving form or Dick’s smile, sometimes when he thinks Tim’s not looking.

Ah, Tim knew it. His Robin will always be better than any other heroes, even if the false warmth makes his heart hurt worse than the broken ribs he’s now sporting. That Hood is pressing a knee down on to keep him immobile. Not that Tim could move anywhere considering both of his legs are broken. Tim wonders what it is about him that makes it impossible for people to muster up warmth towards.

“Do you know why… why heroes are so… so loved?” He wheezes out. He doesn’t wait for a response from Hood. “It’s because… they choose good- they choose to better the world- to save people, even if… even if they weren’t saved themselves. No matter how much- the obstacles, there’s always, an obstacle. But they try anyways.” Tim has to wrap this up. He’s losing coherency. “It’s why… it’s why this is okay. You… you’re choosing to save… to save Gotham from the Joker. Ev’n if you weren’t saved yourself. You’re not… good. You kill.”

Red Hood- Jason, snarls. Tim, blinking slowly, admires the man’s green eyes. “That’s fucking right-”

“But, you can be. Y’re helping.” And because this is important, because Tim has an alter set up to mourn Jason, “You were my hero,” Tim says, and Jason stops short, expression blanking. “So. I’ll help- help remove an obstacle so… so you can keep helping. Helping people like… like me. Or, not like me. Something.”

With that, Tim summons the rest of his strength and presses his neck towards the blade, starting the process to slit his own throat.

Jason flings the knife away, expression crumbling in horror as he stares down at the child he just tortured.

And as Tim’s voice fades, as blood spills out of his neck, as Tim gives him time to retrieve the knife, Jason breaks.

Oh, Tim thinks. His eyes weren’t green. They’re supposed to be blue.

——

Jason sits beside the medical cot, the steady beeping of the heart monitor grounding him as he held two fingers on the kid’s- oh god, he’s a fucking kid, Todd, you monster- pulse.

Jason will grovel when Tim wakes up. Because he turned into the kid’s Joker and Willis and if there’s anything Jason won’t ever allow himself to turn into, it’d be those two. He crossed a line. If Tim wants him to rip his liver out and present it to him, Jason thinks he’d do it on the spot.

Fuck. He fucked up.

[snakeredbirdbatkatana]

I will be your Blade Point Me

Loyalty was a trait Janet Drake respected above all others.

It can give you power, fame, money to have someone's loyalty was to have their life.

Tim has always given his all. His people whatever they need they have. May it be his mind, his skills, or even his weapons.

If Dick Grayson demanded the shirt off his back he would remain naked till the end of his days.

Very few times has anyone actually used it the first to test it was Jason.

"Hey Jay.. What's up you never call?"

Tim's phone is always ringing from Wayne Enterprises to his assorted friends he can't remember it being silent. Yet the shock when HighWay to Hell started blaring almost sent him into cardiac arrest.

"Need a favor. Think you could meet me at that safe house you keep pretending not to break into?"

"Yah no problem also it's not breaking in when you leave the window unlocked. Give me ten."

~

Jason doesn't do favors. He would rather die again than ever ask for shit.

When it comes to Tim though he's not an idiot. During his return to Gotham he researched, knew everything about him from his favorite color to when he fucking peed.

Part of his research specifically including who trained the third Robin. Nevermind that watching the kid fight for more than ten minutes gives it away.

Lady Shiva, Ra's just to name a few. He moves almost exactly the same as Cass. Hides in the shadows better than Damian. The whole creepy debacle with Mr. Old as Fuck just furthered Jason hypothesis.

Baby Bird, Bruce's prized protege isn't none lethal.

"I need you to kill someone."

~

Tim in the back of his mind expected it.

Jason for all he is exactly like Bruce doesn't respond the same. To him protection is blood soaked, a knife to the throat is a greeting. Kindess was shrouded and wasn't offered without losing a part of yourself.

"Joker I'm assuming?"

~

He expected a bit of a fight maybe a lecture at least for him to pretend, not whatever it is Replacement is doing.

"He hasn't broken out of Arkham in months haven't heard shit and I hear your in the same business as me nowadays. What you say about helping a brother out?"

~

He wonders if Jason is aware of how his voice cracked. The pleading that was heard the unspoken because I can't. Tim couldn't imagine looking Jason in the eye and saying no. Watching your son bend and demanding he break.

"Hate to burst your bubble, but I already did, I know you think the worst of me but I wasn't gonna let your murderer keep kicking his feet."

He tosses the drive he's been sitting on almost three months before heading back to the window.

"I know we got our shit Jay but your my brother. This is something you needed to be able to sleep at night. You shouldn't feel like you have to beg. I honestly thought you had known and didn't want to acknowledge it."

~

Jason can't breathe as he shuts his computer. Thirty hours of torture his baby brother broke the Joker in ways that turned his stomach.

He climbs into bed his eyes shutting sleeping without a nightmare for the first time in years.

He can't ever repay Tim nothing will ever be enough but he is gonna do everything to try.

He wonders if Ra's might need the same treatment?

[gay-dorito-dust]

Jason’s 4 year old daughter gets sick and he takes care of her. Sick/comfort. Daddy/daughter moment hurt/comfort.

‘I can as soon as you called.’ Jason said as he barged into the room, roughly removing his red helmet and discarding it elsewhere, uncaring as to where it landed or whether it cracked upon impact.

‘What about-‘

‘Fuck patrol our babygirl is sick and besides Dick said he could handle it by himself.’ Jason replied as he rested his hands on either side of your face and pressed a kiss to your forehead. ‘You promised Dick that he could come visit Akira when she gets better didn’t you?’ You asked, smiling.

‘Yes i promised Dick that he could come visit Akira when she gets better.’ Jason signed, knowing that nothing gets past you.

You smiled at him and pressed a kiss to his cheek. ‘You’re such a softly.’

Jason scoffs. ‘Yeah because god forbid I don’t treat you and Kira like you both aren’t the two most precious people to me. Now where’s Kira?’

‘Daddy?’ Kira’s voice could be heard from behind her bedroom door, catching Jason’s attention immediately. ‘Princess?’ He asks as he walks closer to the door, his hand laid ready on the doorknob. How are you feeling princess? Daddy heard that you’ve gotten sick lately.’

‘I feel icky and gross.’ Kira replied and Jason couldn’t help but feel bad for his precious little girl. ‘Daddy feels icky too when he gets sick.’ Jason says, hoping to make her feel better. ‘I’m going to come in now is that okay sweetheart?’ He then adds and as soon as he hears a small ‘yeah’ he’s already opening the door and going inside, whereas you stayed close to the doorway incase you were needed to grab anything for Kira.

‘Hi daddy.’ Kira said, smiling weakly upon seeing him, silently holding out a hand to him for him to hold and Jason immeditly crumpled and obeyed his daughters wish as he sat on the side of the bed, holding her hand in his much larger one. ‘Hi baby.’ He practically has to whisper as to not make her headache any worse. ‘I’m sick and I hate it daddy.’ Kira whines as she tries to move out from the covers. ‘I know peanut but you’ve got to stay in bed and rest.’ Jason stops her and readjusts the covers so that there tightly tucked under her chin.

‘Will you stay with me?’ Kira asked and Jason knew that this would become a common occurrence in the future but he also knew that he wouldn’t care because he knew he’d do anything for you or Kira within a heartbeat. ‘Of course I will silly girl, I’m not leaving until you get better and when you do, guess who’s coming to visit?’ Kira visibly brightened as she gripped Jason’s hand tighter. ‘Uncle Dick is coming?!’ She exclaimed and for a moment Jason thought that she had been miraculously cured of her minor cold by just the mere mention of Dick, a thought that made Jason pout.

‘Yes, but only if you get better.’ Jason said and Kira snuggled herslef deeper into the bed for warmth and looked up at Jason. ‘I’ll get better. Promise.’ She said and Jason couldn’t help but smile and press a kiss to her forehead, uncaring if he were to get sick afterwards because then he’ll get to stay home and spend it with his small family. ‘I know you will sweetheart, now let’s get you some medicine and then it’s off the bed with you. Deal?’ Jason extends his pinky towards his daughter, who smiles and links her pinky with his. ‘Deal.’ She said.

‘Good.’ Jason replied as he then looked to you, only to see that you were well equipped for the situation and handed over the medicine to him with a smile. ‘You give her this and I’ll go and get some more blankets for Kira.’ You told him, moving further into the room to press a kiss to his cheek and a kiss to Kira’s forehead, before having to leave the room to find some extra blankets and to give Jason and Kira more time together when you heard them laughing together. Yeah she’ll get better soon enough under Jason’s care.

[mysadcorner]

Reader’s in her pre-period shit. She’s in a point of extreme horniness and anger at the same time.

It’s happen to me every pre-period days and it’s most difficult part of my life 😣

How would batboys react reader being both angry and horny at the same time?

Congratulations your 600 followers btw I hope it’ll be something like 600000 one day 🥳🥳

Batboys x Pre-Period!Reader Headcanons

-Credit to the gifs owner - Please be specific with characters in requests -

Masterlist Navigation

2,000 followers now!!!

Dick Grayson

• Dick probably hasn’t had a lot of experience with living with women after he was adopted by Bruce, and he certainly hasn’t held a lot of seriously long term partners despite his many relationships. He may not know how to handle your conflicting feelings at first, but he’s always willing to figure them out to keep peace and to help you feel better.

• He wouldn’t be a huge fan of the mood swings, but he’s still able to handle them pretty well. He’s good at calming people down when they’re feeling tense, and you can hardly stay angry at Dick for very long. Plus he’s more than willing to help you out when you’re craving intimacy from him.

• If you’re usually in the mood for intimacy with Dick in the days leading up to your period, he will be thrilled to help you out. He may not always have the time and he may be tired due to how much he has to do during the day and going on patrol at night, but he will always find a way to make more time for you.

• He would try his best to be sensitive towards you, and will always apologise if he accidently upset you or made you angry in any way. However, he may end up getting tired of having to be careful around you and watch what he may say or do at this time every month due to you potentially being overly sensitive.

• Going through this every month may be tiring for the both of you but Dick will be more than capable to handle and deal with it. He also loves you very much, so he isn't going to let your anger get in the way of anything in your relationship together and will make the most of you wanting to be intimate with him.

Jason Todd

• Jason is going to be very confused if you haven't opened up to him about what you're feeling or what the problem might be that you're facing. He'll try his best to understand, but until you open up to him about what you're actually going through he's going to be pretty clueless.

• He wouldn't be a big fan of the mood swings as he hates being snapped at, especially since he's allowed himself to be vulnerable in a relationship with you. You being mad at him is much different to the people he fights on the street or one of his family members being angry at him, so if you're not going to be direct and honest with him (and instead are just irritable and angry) then he isn't going to force himself to be around you.

• Jason would have no problems with you being in the mood for intimacy more often that you usually were, so you certainly won't have any complaints from him about this. He'll also feel a lot more comfortable initiating intimacy with you now that he knows that you're naturally more inclined to want the same thing as him.

• He always tries his best to be sensitive about the things he says or does around you because he naturally has a hard time doing so after all he's been through. He may mess up with this though as he's naturally very outspoken and rough, so if he does upset you he just wants you to know that he didn't do it on purpose.

• For Jason, this being an occurrence every month wouldn't bother him too much as long as the two of you aren't fighting because of it. He doesn't really care how much the two of you make back up and resolve arguments if there's just going to be another one around the corner - and he really doesn't have the patience to put up with it.

Damian Wayne

• Damian is usually very stoic while also being attentive. So when he first finds that you're having conflicting emotions around this time he wouldn't assume that is was because of the hormonal influence you may be under, and would immediately assume there was a problem that he needed to fix. He wouldn't catch on to what the problem actually is until you explain it to him, and even then he may act uninterested about it at first when he realises you're not facing any threats or trouble.

• Damian doesn't care if you're having mood swings, and he'll hold firmly the belief of treating someone how you always intend to treat them. The fact that you may be snapping at him without provocation or getting mad at him randomly shows that you're not in control of your emotions (or in his mind you're not trying to be). So no matter how much he loves you, mood swings are not something he'll simply put up with just for the sake of keeping you calm when he's not the one at fault for your behaviour.

• If you're in the mood then he will of course be more intimate with you, whenever the time is right. He isn't the type to be intimate with someone on a whim, so even if he is in a relationship with you, he'd prefer to wait until the two of you could have some proper alone time instead of just rushing around whenever one of you is in the mood.

• Damian has a hard time being sensitive towards anyone, but as you're someone he loves he will do his best to be a bit more gentle around you. He likes and needs someone strong willed, especially with the lifestyle he has (so despite being sensitive towards you, he does get tired of needing to very quickly).

• Having to deal with this every month would not be something he's willing to put up with, especially as your mood swings may cause some insecurities about the defence he's constantly trying to keep up for his own safety. He also isn't one to put up with arguments at all from someone he truly cares about, so if this does consistently happen every month and he suffers from it you can't expect him to put up with it for long.

Tim Drake

• Tim is always going to try and find the root of the problem, so when he finally realises what may be causing your temper or sudden bursts of wanting intimacy he's relieved to know that it's just something simple and not a problem in your relationship together going on.

• He doesn't like dealing with you mood swings, because this guy feels bad whenever you do already, so for this to happen pretty often he's going to be going through an emotional rollercoaster with you. He'll try to keep the peace between you and calm you down whenever he can, but he does hate the arguments no matter how much you blame mood swings (especially as it's not fair for him to have to deal with).

• Tim will always be excited when you're in the mood, so you don't have to worry about him turning you down too often; although, he does sometimes get too caught up in his work meaning he doesn't always have enough time to do whatever you want when you want. As long as there are boundaries about you not trying to distract or impose anything while he's doing something important then he'll have no problems with it.

• He always does his best to be as gentle and kind as he can be towards you, so you'll never have to worry about him being mean or having to be more sensitive around you. He's quick to notice slight changes in your behaviour so he's also pretty good to notice when he should or shouldn't say certain things to you.

• Tim is pretty good at dealing with this kind of situation, so he doesn't mind putting up with it every month. He will be tired sometimes, so it wouldn't really bother him unless it results in a serious argument or something bad happening because of either a mood swing or getting in the way of his work to get his attention.

[thattimdrakeguy]

I HAVE BEEN READING ZDARSKY BATMAN, AND I HAVE DECLARED: I FREAKING LOVE IT!!

I'm reading the Batman Zdarsky run in reverse. That way if I see any bull I can back out at anytime: and to be honest--besides a few things. I really enjoy it

LIKE YO, THAT IS JUST STRAIGHT UP TIM DRAKE RIGHT THERE. It knows who he is as a character. his motives, it's great.

Screw the people complaining "oh why is tim still robin :((", THIS IS WHY HE IS STILL ROBIN. Because this is when he's at his BEST. When he gets to hit his character purpose, WHEN HE GETS TO BE HIM AT HIS MOST HIM. It's FANTASTIC.

Reading in reverse because I know I hated the first story, it was so contrived and ridiculous.

But this--this is some good shit.

Tim being an underdog fighter, having to use his wits to win the fight? MY DAWG, MY DUDE, MY GUYS, MY GALS, MY THEMS, MY THEYS, THIS IS SO TIMMY DRAKE. This is so damn Tim Drake, guys. Oh, my gosh, I am loving this so far.

Dick has his temper back? And trust me, he isn't normally like this. But he's hitting a limit AND IT'S SOMETHING NEW, NOT JUST A REFERENCE. HE'S ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING HE'D DO, 'CAUSE HE'S AT HIS LIMIT. That's wonderful, man. That is so wonderful.

Plus Tim is the heart of the Bat-Family again? This feels like someone actually went back to read these characters before writing it. I'm not saying everything is perfect of course, but these high marks are exceeding all my expectations. And I STOPPED reading comics because of how the beginning of this run destroyed any hope I had.

You guys have no idea how much I'm enjoying the few issues I've read. Besides the cussing (I remember after a bit they decided Tim was someone who used funny words instead of proper cusses), this feels like the Tim I know and love during the era I especially loved him.

Tim comparing himself to his predecessors? Tim not being a natural? A WRITER REMEMBERING THAT?? It's been so long since I've seen that! Most writers treat him like he was another prodigy when he wasn't. AND THIS GUY REMEMBERED THAT!

I shouldn't be so happy at just seeing Tim do Tim things, and serving his character purpose. BUT YOU GUYS HAVE NO IDEA HOW LONG IT'S BEEN SINCE A WRITER KNEW WHAT TIM WAS SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE.

Only complaints I have is that Jason feels like a typical Bat-Family member, and not the sketchy outsider that he is. Making him so close makes his character more bland in my opinion. And Steph is--also generic af unless she's wacky quirky...which is a characterization I hate for her, because she started off so damn interesting, but they made her a freaking trope instead, which is such a disservice to her, but she barely does anything so far, so whatever I guess. Doesn't mean much.

--

This is the first honest thing I've seen that I hated.

No

Not this

This isn't the Bat-Family

This is a sitcom world the fandom wants to be the Bat-Family and some comply with

They're not a sitcom. The conflicts, and uniqueness of the characters is what makes things feel alive and well.

This stuff is cheap fanservice for the fanon demographic that doesn't buy comics to begin with.

Fanon doesn't belong in canon.

--

I mean sure Tim could be drawn smaller, the gag of him looking 12 when he's nearly 18 doesn't work when he's bigger than Damian who is 15 (and contrary to some bullshit comics isn't meant to be small. that was a random thing added for writers who aren't clever to write better humor. it actually contradicts things that were already established).

Don't see the big deal though for most of this.

Can't wait to find it, though. Oh boy.

This whole obsession with Zur Batman, is way over done though. So--I wouldn't be shocked if that was the problem, because my golly does that plot point not seem to be stopping--and it was there from the start and part of the reason why I didn't read it 'til now.

Good Tim tho, at least. So heehee, yey for that--I think--I guess.

Oh, well.

It let me peak at a pseudo-version of an AU I made up years ago. So that's pretty freaking cool.

Always a plus.

And redoing Red Robin story beats but better? Normally I'd hate references to Red Robin, 'cause that changed the perception of so many characters for the worst, but ayy, a bit of redemption isn't bad.

Man, just seeing simple stuff like Tim and Bruce being good ol' classic Batman and Robin warms my heart. It's been so long since Batman and Robin has acted like a proper classic Batman and Robin. It's dynamic that's been sorely missed by many.

OH, MY GOSH, WHY DID THE FIRST STORY HAVE TO STINK SO BAD. THIS STUFF IS GREAT.

Like, DUDE, this is such a Tim thing for him to do!!

And he's showing emotion?? He's crying like how he does?? Because he's not a typical Bat-Family member who just angsts his way through?? THEY'RE MAKING HIM STAND-OUT AGAIN BY MAKING HIM, HIM??

WHY DID THE FIRST STORY HAVE TO SUCK SO BAD?? THIS IS GOOD SHIT.

Like this part is why I originally stopped reading, not because Bruce should think Tim is his soldier, and not his son, THE FREAKING OPPOSITE.

But because the original story has Bruce acting weird when unneeded, just to say this was so unneeded, and adding in all these stupid corny Bat-Family moments was so groan worthy.

This run started off with a story that was a total turn off for me.

To end up being a run that could've kept me enjoying DC, rather than running away from it from as far as I have.

Chip Zdarsky started off awful, but really, he ended up great.

And I've seen people complain about his run, and TRUST ME, there's stuff to complain about. But I have only ever seen the stuff worth complaining about, or stuff I WOULD complain about.

WHEN MOST OF THE RUN IS GOOD

At least when Tim is around.

Go figure.

Maybe I should've paid sole attention to how he wrote Tim and nothing else at the very least for that first story.

'Cause even in the first story, Tim was well-written--it's how cheap the rest of the story telling was in that first story that turned me off--and the weird knew about the movie plans that I am still fully judging harshly. (Love the new Superman film suit, though)

[prince-dork-the-companion]

Batfamily Presentation Night - Pizza - Jason

Masterlist

Jason: Alright fuckers, my turn.

Tim: Uh oh.

Steph: This is going to go one of two ways.

Steph: Okay, I now know which way this is going.

Jason: For the record, I made this presentation last night after accidentally making eye contact with Bruce, so if I seem very angry, that's why - and it's mostly justified. Damian, I don't hate your pizza that much, but it's still bad.

Damian: You're just jealous.

Duke: I respect using your status as a criminal like it's a title.

Jason: It's my full legal name, actually.

Dick: EXCUSE ME?

Babs: Jay, are you really going to turn against me like this?

Jason: I stand by this entirely. Cheese pizza is boring and no one likes Dick Grayson.

Duke: I think he's pretty cool.

Jason: You haven't known him long enough.

Dick: :(

Cass: I like Dick.

Tim: [snorts]

Babs: I - You do know -

Jason: Again, I stand by everything stated on this slide.

Duke: This is oddly philosophical.

Steph: Jason you're no longer my favourite Robin.

Jason: You act like I care at all.

Duke: Man I'm just sitting here and I'm just being ATTACKED on ALL FRONTS.

Steph: PINEAPPLE DOESN'T BELONG ON FUCKING PIZZA YOU HETHAN.

Bruce: Stephanie, get off the table.

Steph: Stfu Bruce you're old.

Bruce: ...

Tim: [sips coffee loudly] I dunno what all the fuss is about, it's just Pizza.

Steph: Shut up Tim you're a war criminal.

Damian: I don't mind the taste of pineapple on pizza. It's not bad, but I don't understand why you're so angry about it, Brown.

Steph: I hate this FUCKING FAMILY.

Cass: You love us. :)

Damian: TODD -

Bruce: Damian, off the table. Don't try to stab your brother.

Jason: He can try.

Damian: This is why Mother didn't want you around me.

Steph: WOAH -

[Long, collective silence]

Steph: Bruce what?

Bruce: I don't like getting grease on my fingers.

Steph: BRUCE WHAT?

Tim: The disrespect on this slide.

Steph: WE CANNOT GLOSS OVER BRUCE EATING WITH A FORK AND KNIFE.

Duke: Rich people...

Jason: You're one of us now, Shrimp.

Duke: Aw, shit.

Duke: The animosity...

Dick: I'm on the edge of my seat.

Tim: Not the STOCK image.

[uproar]

Steph: WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK, JASON?

Dick: HUH?

Damian: You put... fish on your pizza? Todd, what has gotten into you?

Duke: I'm gonna hyperventilate.

Tim: Lord, give me strength...

Duke: All of you were hating on MY TASTE, meanwhile Jason was RIGHT HERE the WHOLE TIME.

Steph: You're going to hell. Straight, DIRECTLY to hell.

Babs: Because nothing else Jason has ever done will land him in hell.

Steph: EVERYTHING ELSE HE DID WAS JUSTIFIED.

Bruce: Stephanie...

Steph: YOU CAN'T DEFEND THIS BRUCE HE PUT FUCKING FISH ON PIZZA.

Steph: NO, NOTHING you say is going to fix this Jason. I'm disowning you.

Tim: Half the time you aren't even one of us because -

Steph: SHUT UP DRAKE!! I'M GOING THROUGH A BREAKDOWN RIGHT NOW LEAVE ME ALONE. This is it this is my Jason Arc.

Duke: [loud breathing]

Damian: This whole event is unnecessary. I've got better things to do -

Jason: If I can't escape family bonding time, you can't escape family bonding time.

Damian: Tt.

Tim: Steph, are you good now?

Steph: No. I'm never going to recover from this.

Duke: I am no longer hyperventilating.

Dick: Let's just - move on -

Tim: I'll go next.

Steph: Uh oh.

TO BE CONTINUED

[the-sage-libriomancer]

personally i love the "Jason is the emotional member of the Batfamily" interpretation of the character. He's angry. He's exuberant. His love for his family ballooned so much that it ruptured when he died and swelled into a swollen, unbearable weight when he came back. When he feels his emotions he really feels them - they're so unfathomably big that his body can't contain them.

Bruce never lets himself feel things, Dick knows how to regulate himself to a point, but Jason puts emotions first. He loves fiercely and hates explosively, gets angry and then cools off, lets fear swell & blister until it physically hurts him. And sure, he can't help poking wounds just to make people look at him, but if there's some bullshit happening, he'll be the first to stand up and make a scene. Maybe it won't be the most tactical thing to do, maybe it'll even be detrimental to the goal, but the iron is too hot to temper and sometimes that's a good thing.

Like, i know Jason can be a real punk at times, and i'm not trying to say he's a good role model by any means, but i think it's interesting and even valuable to have a character who puts their emotions first - someone who takes action far more freely and doesn't check themselves like the other characters, who is (for better or for worse) a very passionate person and not afraid of it. I think it's a great to have a character who can't (and ultimately shouldn't) follow the Bats' policies that are just variations of "bottle everything up for the sake of the mission", because they just feel everything so damn much and it's okay because that's just who they are. And i think it works best both narratively and thematically if that character is Jason.

[nightwings-robin]

Some of y'all act like Tim hated Jason when Tim was Robin and Jason was still dead but I disagree.

Not a lot of people do this but I've seen it enough times that it's gotten to bother me a little bit.

Let's take a look at some early Tim opinions on Jason.

Detective Comics (1937) #618

"Just a boy like me... One day I'll be as good as Jason."

This issue came out in 1990, so it's rather soon after Jason died and Tim was introduced (which happened in 1988 and 1989 respectfully). This is what Tim thinks about Jason very early one. This doesn't read as even remotely like hatred to me.

But wait, there's more!

The very next issue shows Tim having sympathy for Jason.

Detective Comics (1937) #619

Tim is noting the similarities between Dick, Jason, and himself. This issue is in the same arc when Tim's parents get kidnapped and his mom is killed. He has sympathy for Dick AND Jason, who both lost their parents. Tim is faced with the same pain and it shows his compassion for Jason.

Now this isn't to say that Tim was unaware of some of Jason's problems and maybe did blame him for his own death a bit, as shown with this panel:

Batman (1940) #455

Tim knew that Jason had times of anger and says he won't let that happen to himself. I don't think Tim is being quite fair here in claiming that he won't let his anger get the better of him like Jason's did, but Tim is hardly the only character to think this way about Jason and, again, this doesn't read as hatred to me. If anything, to me this reads as a character with preconceived notions about how another person died and not wanting to make the same preconceived mistakes as that person.

Is he being a bit harsh and 'holier-than-thou' here? Yes. Do I think this is hatred or some other malicious view of Jason? No.

There is also that time Tim hallucinated Dick and Jason, and they gave a sort of "pep-talk" to him about being Robin.

Batman (1940) #456

These are Tim's own thoughts manifesting through Dick and Jason. I do dislike that he imagines Jason blaming himself for his own death but think about why Tim would think this about Jason. Tim never met Jason. Wasn't there when he died. He only knows what he read and what he was told about Jason from other people. People like Bruce, Dick, and Alfred. And while those three loved and cared for Jason, they also unfortunately reinforced the belief that Jason was responsible for the Joker murdering him. It's not great but it does stand to reason that Tim would think this about Jason.

But it's not all bad stuff. Tim imagines Jason cheering him on alongside Dick:

Batman (1940) #456

Tim imagines not just Dick but also Jason telling him he can do it. That he can figure it out and be a good Robin. I feel like if Tim really did hate Jason, he wouldn't imagine Jason rooting for him.

Tim goes on to imagine Dick and Jason later helping him out with a fight:

Batman (1940) #457

Again, Tim imagines both Dick AND Jason encouraging him during a battle. He imagines that they both want him to succeed as a hero. Why would Tim want Jason's approval if he dislikes Jason? Because he doesn't dislike Jason. Tim respects him enough as Robin to think that he wants Jason's encouragement.

and then at the end when he officially becomes Robin:

Batman (1940) #457

"Dick made it a symbol... Jason gave his life for it. Failing them... what they fought so hard to build... worries me."

Tim sees being Robin as not just carrying on Dick's legacy, but also Jason's. He wants to live up to Jason just as much as he wants to live up to Dick. He wants to be a Robin that both of them can be proud of.

Like none of this says to me that Tim hated Jason. Did he look up to and idolize Jason the way he did with Dick? No, but that also doesn't mean that Tim hated him.

I get the feeling that Tim viewed Jason's death as a tragedy but since they never met, he didn't have any personal feelings about him, only wanting to live up to the Robin name that Jason left behind.

Now I DO think that Tim did eventually end up hating Jason after Jason came back and tried to kill Tim and others multiple times but this post is specifically referring to the time before Jason returned from the grave.

And I guess I should make it clear that I've not read every single comic issue of Tim Drake ever so maybe there are moments that refute my claim that I just don't know about. I'm simply going off of issues that I have read and I've only read Tim's very early days as Robin.

Feel free to disagree and add on if you want.

[thebat-musicman]

The Playlist™

My 12 hour Batfam playlist (with repeating songs!)

The repeating version has 200 songs and is 12 hours. Non repeating has 167 songs and is 9 hours and 54 minutes.

I am so sorry to whatever poor souls are reading this just trying to find good songs for their faves

@batfambrainrotbeloved it’s done

The bat-playlist from hell is under the cut

Alfred

Be our guest

Let it be

Sweet caroline

You are my sunshine

God is really real

Istanbul (not Constantinople)

50 ways to say goodbye (him faking Bruce’s death when he went training)

What was I made for

No time to die

James Bond theme

I got you

Child of Mine

Little Lion man

You’ll be in my heart

Never grow up

Edelweiss

Baby mine

Friend like me

My heart will go on

Bruce

Never grow up

Everything has changed

I hate it here

I look in people’s windows

imgonnagetyouback

Karma (AJR)

Humpty Dumpty

Inertia

Two birds

Cat’s in the cradle

Song for Orphans

Tears in heaven

Heart of stone

Robin

Whatever it takes

ocean eyes

Migraine

I’ll make a man out of you

Under the Sea

Beautiful Boy (darling boy)

Babs

The story of us

Just a girl

Clara Bow

Role Models

Break my face

The DJ is crying for help

Little miss perfect

She used to be mine

Mastermind

Pretty distraction

So high school

How did it end

Fight song

You should see me in a crown

The man

Runs the world (girls)

I bet you think about me

Inertia

Ours

Part of your world

Dick

I can do it with a broken heart

Touchy feely fool

Never grow up

The Bolter

Surface Pressure

You’re on your own, kid

Because of you

Karma (AJR)

Way less sad

Perfect (simple plan)

Father of mine

This is me trying

Count on me

The Greatest Show

No way

Mr. Perfectly fine

Dancing Queen

Show and Tell

How far I’ll go

Used to be young

Cass

Who’s afraid of little old me

Cassandra

The Albatross

Father of mine

You’re on your own, kid

Heart of stone

Fight song

Everybody wants to rule the world

She used to be mine

Family Line

Because of you

Roar

You should see me in a crown

I won’t

When will my life begin

The prophecy

I hate it here

Speechless

I’ve got a dream

Blackbird

Jason

The Prophecy

Mr. Perfectly fine

Better than Revenge

I did something bad

My tears ricochet

Vigilante shit

You’re gonna go far, kid

Time of dying

Deja vu

good 4 u

Because of you

Father of mine

These boots were made for walking

Fuck you

One way or another

Bang! Pow! Boom!

Be prepared

One jump ahead

Vampire

I think I’m gonna like it here (baby jason needs a song)

Steph

Record Player

Turning out Pt. II

The Dumb Song

Just a girl

Cardigan

The Man

But daddy I love him

the manuscript

Guilty as Sin?

Father of mine

Dead!

Teenagers

You’re on your own, kid

Mr. Perfectly Fine

High school sweethearts

Drama Club

My Play

Devil Town

This is love (air traffic controller)

I won’t say (I’m in love)

Tim

Ur gonna wish u believed me

Yes I’m a mess

Karma (AJR)

Mastermind

Don’t blame me

Fool

Wow, I’m not crazy

Humpty Dumpty

Good 4 u

Pretender (Acoustic)

Mister Cellophane

Come hang out

Let the games begin

Heart of stone

brutal

Deja vu

Every breath you take

The sound of silence

Go the distance

Viva La Vida

Duke

Here comes the sun

Walking on sunshine

I see the light

How do I say goodbye

The Prophecy

Turning out

Sunshine lollipops and rainbows

Teenagers

Our song

Demons

I’m still standing

Waiting on a miracle

I’m not famous

Paper rings

We didn’t start the fire

Everybody dies

What was I made for

I’ll follow the sun

Sunflower

Into the Unknown

Damian

Insane

Oh no!

Surface Pressure

Control

The good part

Role models

Mother knows best

Bad guy

What else can I do

Devil Town

Bones

Rät

Maniac

Losing my religion

(Don’t fear) The Reaper

Heathens

Pumped up kicks

Go the distance

A whole new world

I just can’t wait to be king

[distort-opia]

Could you maybe explain to me what exactly Jason's problem with Bruce was/is when he came back?

Maybe I'm being stupid but I don't know. Like, I know there's this space between Jason's resurrection and Talia finding him... and Jason returing for a sec to kill Bruce, then changing his mind, and went back to Talia to plan The Ultimatum and travel the world a bit.

I went off the assumption that Jason thought Bruce didn't care enough for him to kill the Joker and then the whole stupid thing with the batarang to the neck after everyone thought Dick died.

But, like, Jason kind of destroyed his relationship with the batfam himself with the whole coming out of nowhere and trying to hurt/traumatize/kill them. I don't mean to hate on Jason specifically, I just don't get him on a fundamental level.

Would really appreciate if somebody could clear that up, I'm kind of desperate. Like I have most of the facts but it seems like a jigzaw puzzle with too many pieces and I can't make sense of it.

To be honest, I don't understand your confusion fully? You pretty much explained it yourself, why Jason was angry at Bruce after he came back. Even Judd Winick, the writer of Under the Red Hood, says it very concisely (in this interview):

When it comes to Jason's relationships with the Batfam, I'll once again let Winick explain his vision (transcription of a podcast episode to be found here):

You say that Jason harmed his relationship with the Batfam himself as if Jason's intention had been to have good relationships with them. At the times he went after Tim or Dick or Damian, I don't think he cared much about that, hah. Most of his choices at the time could be boiled down to "What would piss off Bruce the most, either directly or by proxy?"... and also, "What would get Bruce's attention the most?". Because that's what made it complicated, right. Jason wouldn't have gone to these extremes if he didn't care about Bruce.

As to things not making sense... you're not being stupid, I'm sorry to say that at least to me, it's impossible to reconcile all of Jason's actions within a coherent character. Just because he was written by different people in different continuities with very different goals (though maybe more accurately, by some writers lacking a goal, as in not really knowing what to do with him). This is true for most comic book characters, not just Jason; true consistency is a pipe dream when the history of a character spans decades. Keeping that in mind, my personal approach is forming an idea of the original core traits of a character (which is why I gave examples of what Winick himself said), and then filtering their subsequent portrayals through that. Some comics will be horribly OOC despite them technically being canon and you simply have to go the "I recognize that the Council has made a decision, but given that it's a stupid-ass decision I've elected to ignore it" route. Then there's, of course, your personal preferences; you can choose what is canon to you because you like it, and form your idea of a character around those instances-- though here I'd always warn to never stop being aware that it's your idea of the character. There is no absolute truth, and we're all playing in a sandbox. Other people will choose other instances of canon, or try to reconcile all of them somehow, and your ideas might not jive. That's perfectly fine.

That being said, while I do like Jason a lot, he isn't my full-time blorbo, so I'm sure other Jason scholars could respond to this much better than I did! If anyone wants to add more in-depth answers, please do.

[raynetheinsane]

Batfam (and friends) as Henry Danger quotes

(Because im a nerd and love this show)

Damian: Tt, my parties arent that bad

Jon: Christmas. 3 years ago. 15 kids ended up in the hospital!

Damian: FATHER!!!

Tim: Damian! Were trying to study here *indicates to Duke and Steph, both clearly not studying*

Damian: I’m talking to my Father.

Robin!Jason: Dangit! All these jobs say i gotta have skills..

Dick: You have skills!

Jason: Name one.

Dick: You’re a great dancer!

Jason: No I’m not?

Dick: You could take lessons.

(More under the cut i just dont want this to be super duper long)

Bruce: How old are you?

Tim, trying to become robin: Im 13, I’ll be 14. On my next birthday

Dick: Ah so youre aging sequentially

Tim, extremely tired: Do you ever dream about sleeping?

Steph, extremely confused:…no??

Tim: good. If you did youd be dead.

Bruce: Lets ride.

Robin!Jason who is very new to this: Wha- Ride where?

Bruce: We’ve got people in the Jandy River that need saving.

Bruce: Come on.

Jason: You mean we’re going there? Together? Like right now?

Tim, extremely dirty and has a cut on his face walking into Drake Manor:

Jack, not paying attention: Hey Tim, did you get the job?

Tim: Yeah, just finished my first day.

Jack: So hows work?

Tim: Uh it was pretty… interesting.

Bernard: Hey, you never told us what you do at your new job

Tim: *just stares wide eyed silently*

Bruce: While we were patrolling, Poison Ivy stole packs of baby bottles, can you guess why?

Robin!Dick: Uhhh

Bruce: To flood the bottles with radioactive plant matter.

Dick: I would not have guessed that.

Jason: I see youre in your pajama pants.

Tim: Yeah its almost midnight, I was studying for this test i have tomorrow

Jason: What subject?

Tim: Puerto Rican history

Jason: Ah Puerto Rico… land of…

Tim: Puerto Ricans?

Jason: yeah..

Red Hood: Strike three.

Spoiler: That was only 2

Hood: Okay, don’t correct me in front of the criminals

Duke: Whats in the mug?

Tim, who just poured himself and entire pot of coffee despite hating it: Coffee.

Tim: To keep me alive.

Duke: no, no, no, no, you cannot drink this much coffee after work. This mug is comedically large!

Steph: I have the same dream all the time. It satrts with me getting a horse for my birthday. Then my dad shows up. Then the horse kicks my dad in the face!

Jason, helping Tim study: You want a good grade on your puerto rican math test?

Tim: history

Jason, who died before he finished highschool: Same thing

Non-Bat who needs the antidote for Joker gas or something: Will this hurt?

Black Bat: Yes, very much.

Bernard, talking about a criminal the Bats cant catch: Its not Batmans fault, he just needs a better sidekick

Tim: One more time.

Bernard, who knows: Just saying, I’d be way better at catching criminals than the current Robin

Dick: I’m gonna die..

Jason: Not in the house. If you’re gonna die, do it outside

Tim: I’m Robin.

Bernard: I know. I figured that out.

Damian: Todd, I wish to speak to you about something.

Jason: BABIES COME FROM THE BABY STORE

Oracle: Steph, come to Gotham Park right now!

Steph: noo, I’m not in the mood for trees

Oracle: did i ask you what youre in the mood for?

Vikki Vale: So, Spoiler, how did you catch Two Face?

Spoiler: I’d love to take all the credit, but it was really all thanks to my partner, Black Bat.

Vikki: Interesting. Black Bat, can you tell us more?

Black Bat: No.

It really bothers me the lack of Babs, Cass, and Duke worthy quotes there are 😔😔 also my personal favs show a lot and im sorry for that, but there will be more as i think of them, these are just eps 1-4, the rest will be posted like in a queue or something and as single quotes cus im eepy

[laufire]

would you mind expanding more on what you dislike about the gotham knights social services arc? i've always been a fan of the way it depicts jason! robin, and how bruce, alfred, dick, and tim each speak about him in the interviews. even if the way the arc depicts social services as antagonistic and ultimately concludes in "bruce has no culpability for jason's death" is a little objectionable. i'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

honestly, I remember the arc crossing victim blaming jason & trying to portray him as someone the audience might find unsympathetic territory for my taste (joke's on them, he's never done anything wrong, etc. etc.).

I don't mind how it portrays social services in gotham at large: they're a corrupt bunch willing to look the other way when it comes to a rich guy's possible mistreatement of kids in his care; one (1) person tries to actually do something about a dubious situation but ultimately decides he can't or won't go against bruce, following the corrupt institution's mandates instead. it does piss me off that there's absolutely no self-awareness about how maaaaaaybe. mr bruce batman wayne. whose purported goal is to end the crime and corruption in the city. is instead fully taking advantage of it here, in order to COVER UP HIS SON'S MURDER. like. jfc. there's NO acknowledgment in the comics that bruce didn't just ~not avenge~~ jason, he effectively robbed him of any possible justice for his death.

but what I hate most about it is this (second image). the whole "you hold no responsibility for jason's death because you were not his father, but also if you were his father it's fine, you still did right by him" of it all.

it pisses me off so fucking much!! first of all, this version of barbara is ADOPTED, AT ROUGHLY THE AGE JASON WAS WHEN HE DIED. so. ??? am I supposed to take this as an attempt to erase the adoption? I would make a joke about bruce friendzoning his son but man, it's so shitty that they do this lol.

like, we can either take the run at face value, and think, okay. jason was a troubled kid with violence issues due to his shitty upbringing. he was not what he was portrayed as in his original robin tenure, which was yes, a troubled teen, but also an extremely compasionate one who wanted to do good, who protected victims because he strongly empathised with them, and who was actually good at the whole robin thing, often being of invaluable help to bruce. no, instead let's believe he was everything robin SHOULDN'T be, that he should've NEVER been made robin, if only for his own sake, and definitely for other people's. and oh, bruce didn't even consider him a son. he was just Some Kid he tried to "reform" but always saw as a delinquent, as a project.

in which world doesn't this make bruce worse?

my personal take is that this is how bruce, barbara, alfred & co cope with jason's death, and this is a take I do see often. but it's a take that the narrative never challenges. never. not here, not when jason returns. it goes uncriticised, unacknowledged as a falsehood. and when jason is alive his character can speak for himself and does, but when he was dead he was just that. dead, gone. no part of the narrative was on his side.

this is related to why I immediately will stop taking you seriously if you claim jason was a better character when he was dead lol. when he "haunted" the narrative. he didn't haunt shit, it was all like this! what people mean by saying this is that they're uncomfortable with how jason's return completely fucks up the ~batfamily status quo and they can't be comfortable with it anymore. jason keeps pocking holes at it.