#also canonically bruce does not trust her which is why I think shipping her with one of his kids is superior like it's so funny

[internetgiraffekid1673]

Ramblings About Batfam Comics I Read This Week

So. I spent this week reading unhealthy amounts of batfam comics, and I have thoughts!

I have now read the entirety of the Red Robin solo comic, all of Batgirl Volume 3 (Stephanie Brown's batgirl run), Batman: the Road Home because I kinda had to for context, about half of the currently running Batgirls comic (Cass and Steph share the Batgirl role with Barbara as their mentor and also sometimes Batgirl), and The Dark Knight Returns by Frank Miller.

Why these? Simple, I wanted to read Batgirls, I wanted Red Robin Tim, and I wanted Carrie Kelley's existence. So, without further ado, here are my major thoughts!

You know me, my ramblings turn into long essays, so it all goes under a cut and subsections! As per usual, TL;DR at the bottom!

Multiple Comics:

1. Comics are funnier than we give them credit for. Even the edgiest ones I was reading left me cracking up every once in a while.

2. I have maintained this since I first started learning about the BatFam, and I will maintain it till I die---Batman has partners, not sidekicks. They don't follow his orders. He doesn't LET them do anything. He runs around doing damage control while a bunch of absolutely feral children fight crime. Batman doesn't make heroes. He finds heroes and makes sure they have access to a decent first aid kit, training, and some morals.

3. Stephanie Brown is a BAMF who does NOT get the love she deserves. Not only is she smart, determined, and awesome in a fight, she's got something that many batfam characters lack: kindness. Stephanie is sweet and adorkable and nice to everyone while still managing to be a chaotic, hypercompetent, sarcastic menace to society. I'll go into more details under the Batgirl v. 3 section, but I am now a massive Stephanie Brown stan, and I will not tolerate slander! Put some respect on the name of Stephanie f*cking Brown!

4. I am now both a shipper of TimSteph and CassSteph. With occasional HarperSteph. This is unsurprising. I have multiple characters I like together in most mediums, and I don't give a crap about canon, so I can ship whichever one I'm in the mood for! :)

5. In a similar vein, reading the comics very much stoked my already strong DickBabs fire. I love me so Birdflash, RobStar, and Babs/Kara, but I'm beginning to think DickBabs is my favorite combo.

6. Stephanie's OG spoiler costume is her best one, but she's at her best characterization as v. 3 Batgirl.

7. F*CK YOU NEW 52! Nobody likes you, and you ruin everything! You robbed me of my favorite incarnations of these characters! DEATH TO THE NEW 52! BURN, YOU DISGUSTING INSULT TO NARRATIVE CONSISTENCY!

8. Damian and Dick as Batman and Robin are honestly precious together. I only got bits and pieces viewed through Batgirl and Red Robin's eyes, but I really like them and their dynamic with both each other and everyone else. I think my favorite thing is definitely that they have named combo moves where they complete each other's quips. It's adorable.

9. Bruce is a well-meaning a**hole. He really does care about his family, but he needs to trust them more and get MUCH better at communicating.

10. Did you know everybody has a cool base outside of the Batcave? Damian and Dick are based in Wayne Tower, Tim has his Nest, Babs has the Clocktower, and Steph's Team Batgirl has the Firewall which is below Oracle's apartment.

Red Robin Solo Run

1. Tim is one cool BAMF. Man fought the whole Court of Spiders at once---who were killing League of Assasins members for fun BTW---and won and got the civilian bystander out safely. He blew up ALL of Ra's Al Ghul's bases, then fought off Ra's double threat of a hostile takeover on Wayne Enterprises and attempts to assasinate all of Batman's loved ones. He took down the evil, corruptive, hive-mind dark-net that supervillains use to communicate (yes this is a thing that exists). He successfully got evidence that Batman was alive when NOBODY else believed him and then was one of the first to actually know he was back and easily pass Bruce's tests (yes, Bruce tested people instead of telling them he was alive, because he is a well-meaning a**hole).

3. Tim is an edgy teenager. He does at least as much brooding as Batman, but with this sarcasm and dry wit behind everything that Batman doesn't really have. Tim has a consistent "Well f*ck my life, I guess," mentality that is FASCINATING to read, and is the source of a lot of his humor. He has a habit of reacting to really dramatic and serious situations with a deadpan "Welp. That ain't good. Guess I'll either figure it out or die trying."

2. Tim is apparently a chick-magnet. Just in Red Robin, he's got a thing going with Tam Fox and Lynx, Prudence Wood thinks he's sexy, he almost gets raped by Ra's Al Ghul's half-sister, and he and Steph still have feelings about each other that primarily consist of "why does my ex have to be so hot?" I am now incorporating this fact into ALL of my headcanons. It also makes for some fun drama, because all of these ladies (except maybe Steph) are way more into Red Robin than they are Tim Drake, even if they're aware of his identity. I find this objectively hilarious.

3. Tim's cowl is stupid. Apparently, the artist got the memo about halfway through the comic since tim has a pretty cool, uniquely shaped domino mask when he's in the Ünternet. This should be his mask in all appearances. Clearly unique to Red Robin, but not the stupid earless cowl.

4. Tim has SOME sort of neurodivergence going on because my man hyperfixates like nobody's business. He literally has a page where he rambles about how something'll catch his attention and he'll get sucked into it and give it his whole focus and be unable to stop thinking about it, to the detriment of his other commitments.

5. Tim somehow manages to have a thriving social life and no social life at all, and the comic agrees with me. He regularly teams up with the Teen Titans and other Gotham Weirdos TM. He's got a civilian ally/life companion in the form of Tam Fox. He has his guy in the chair, Money Spider a.k.a. Anarky a.k.a Lonnie Machin. He's got Prudence Wood and a couple of other folks with questionable morals on his payroll. And of course, he's got Bruce. He even tells Ra's at some point, "I'm not Batman. I have friends." But he also seems to do a really good job at not telling people things and thus being isolated anyway. He doesn't really doesn't share much of his personal stuff with anyone, especially not initially, so they can't really help him with stuff or provide him with the right companionship. This is perhaps most evident in his relationship with Tam Fox, which he effectively destroys by not telling her that her father Lucius isn't actually dead, and Tim just faked it for one of his plans. He didn't even forget, he just deemed not telling her the best course of action. Both he and Batman are concerned about this.

6. Tim has MASSIVE supervillain vibes. Like, Tim would make the BEST supervillain if he hadn't decided to be so heroic. Lemme. Lemme just give you a list.

Tim has a hit list. And those aren't my words. He calls it a hit list. It's mostly supervillains, and he specifically designs his schemes so that one arrest leads directly into the next. But it also has Robin as a contingency plan and a couple of other people who are decidely not bad guys.

He's a schemer. Bruce's whole test for him involves testing how he does at improvising because Tim has a penchant for creating carefully crafted plans like some sort of maniacal supervillain. And they work pretty much every time.

Tim's subconscious mind manifests as The Riddler. Lemme explain. While Tim is in the virtual reality, Ready-Player-One-esque dark net that the supervillains have set up, his attempt to puzzle out what's going on manifests as The Riddler giving him cryptic clues. The Riddler. THE RIDDLER! This is decidedly his own doing, not the Ünternet's.

Tim keeps his morals because he promised Batman, not because he actually has those morals himself. This sounds worse than it is. It's not like he actively wishes to break his moral code, he just comments multiple times in sticky situations that he would do X thing if it wouldn't be so disappointing to Batman and other people. On multiple occassions (see, blowing up the LoA bases), he actually does X thing because he thinks it's more important than approval.

Tim has ambitions to make Gotham the leader of the world. He specifically starts a number of international outreach programs for Wayne Enterprises with making Gotham the World Hub in mind. He has other altruistic reasons, but this is the one he's most focused on. This scheme also inspires Bruce to start Batman Inc., a.k.a. the thing Bruce has been doing since his return from his vacation in the time stream. Tim acknowledges that he's the inspiration and also that Bruce does not consciously know he was inspired by Tim.

He's manipulative and will work with all kinds of people if it serves his goals. This includes unpredictable people like Anarky, dangerous people like Man Bat, and morally questionable people like Lynx and Prudence Wood. His manipulation tactics mostly come in the form of cutting off other people's options until helping him is their best choice and withholding information until sharing it suits him. Batman in the making.

You see what I mean? Kid would make a GREAT criminal mastermind. Definitely got them villain vibes.

7. F*CK YOU NEW 52. The comic ended really abruptly on an ominous note with an unfinished plot because suddenly we had to do a whole reboot of the universe. Because the New 52 SUCKS!

Batgirl Volume 3

1. *ahem* STEPHANIE BROWN IS THE BEST CHARACTER! STEPH STANS UNITE! WE RIDE AT DAWN!

2. No, but seriously. I mentioned in the general section that Stephanie is a total BAMF who also has SO much heart! I think something really unique about her is her ability to be kind to and befriend literally anyone.

She becomes tentative friends with this absolute jerk girl Jordanna who's really mean to Steph because she's possesive of her friends, who all think Steph is cool. Steph doesn't judge, presses on, and manages to get Jordanna to at least accept her, if not be actively kind to her.

It's due to Steph's efforts that Wendy Harris a.k.a. Proxy a.k.a. Oracle in Training really feels accepted in her new hero role.

Steph looked at Damian in the height of his brat era and said, "You know what this kid needs? A bouncy house! Yeah, I'mma teach him how to have fun and be a kid by forcibly taking him to a bouncy castle!"

Batgirl is noted as. . .not as legal as Batman, but she still manages to make her own police force connection.

She's helpful and chill to Klarion the Witch Boy even though, as usual, all their problems in that issue are his fault.

She beats up a dude who's trying to blow up a train, and her ability and tenacity impress him so much that he becomes the Grey Ghost and tries to help her out. She thinks it's annoying and is worried about him (rightfully so, since he gets shot), but she does listen to him.

Steph will look at almost anyone with kindness and without judgement and has an astounding capability to befriend people because of this.

3. Steph is FREAKING HILARIOUS! Steph is probably the chattiest hero, especially when she's fighting bad guys, and it is both so effective and SO funny! She'll just start totally random conversations about WHATEVER while she's busy beating people up, and it makes me cackle every time. She also literally teaches people banter and gives them turns! It's amazing! Like, I'm not sure I'd call her quippy since she's not actually usually insulting people. She's just making casual, friendly conversation at really inappropriate times for it.

4. That's not the only way she's funny, either. Steph also has "inner monologue problems" where she'll say her thoughts out loud. This becomes a running gag to the point that Babs'll continually have to tell her she's using her "outside voice." It's funny and awkward every time! And then there's her habit of paraphrasing stuff that culminates when she tells Wendy the entire batfamily history in chibi doodles with absolutely zero respect. Never fear, Stephanie is here to make you laugh!

5. Steph is a GRADE A BAD-A**! My girl will challenge anyone, get in over her head, make decisions on the fly, and still win! Technically, this is a Batman Road Home Moment, but when Batman pulls his "I'm testing people instead of telling them I'm back" BS on Steph, she b*tch slaps him and then runs away while saying "I'm glad you're not dead." Bruce's only response is Bruce-speak for "I deerved that." When literally all of Gotham turns into mind controlled zombies that are after her, she outruns them by hijacking an equally mind-controlled ManBat, wrangling him until they crash into the airport, and then hitching a ride with Proxy in the T-Jet that they barely know how to fly. This works. Even when she's getting knocked around, Steph is kicking butt, taking names, and refusing to let her frankly awful lot in life get her down.

6. Steph is an improviser. My girl almost never has a plan. She thrives on the chaos. She's far more likely to disobey orders and go in guns blazing and figure it out on the fly than waste time trying to meticulously plan out something that'll probably go wrong anyway. Like, she knows the value of planning and does it every once in a while, but I feel like Steph would win almost any fight where both parties have 0 prep time simply because she's so much better at thinking on the fly and getting herself out of scrapes than anyone else.

7. Steph doesn't follow ANYONE'S orders because she is an independent adult, dammit! At the beginning of the issue, Cassandra Cain runs off to Hong Kong and hands off the Batgirl mantle to Steph. Literally everyone she comes across gives her crap for not being Cass, tells her to stop, and thinks that she shouldn't be doing that job. Everyone from random street level goons to Barbara and Dick. Steph doesn't listen and keeps going until she finally shows off enough determination that Babs gets her head out of her ass. Even after that, Steph'll happily disregard orders from Oracle, Batman, Red Robin, her mom, the cops and anyone else who tries to boss her around if she thinks it'll help. And the best part is, she's right almost every time. Steph has good judgement. She knows when she's right, and she won't let anyone tell her different.

8. I absolutely loved the dynamics between all the members of Team Batgirl. Babs taking Steph under her wing and helping her come into her own as Batgirl is amazing. One of the sweetest moments in the whole thing is when Babs gifts Steph the original Batgirl costume (she'd been using Cass's up until that point). In turn, Steph helps Babs open up and find joy and purpose in her life again, when she'd mostly been running on spite at that point. They also are so in sync with each other that it's hilarious. My favorite example is, in a situation that is getting progressively worse, Babs and Steph have the exact same inner monologue: "Crap. DOUBLE crap." It only gets better when Wendy's around, with Steph and Babs connecting to her issues each in their own way. It's beautiful and really helps Wendy grow as a person and heal her heart.

9. Steph needs to do more team ups with people. Yes, she's fantastic and compelling by herself, but she becomes downright marvelous when she's got someone to bounce off of, and her natural friendliness makes her a good pick for team ups. One of my favorite issues was definitely the one where she hung out with Kara and they beat up vampires together. It was adorable.

10. F*CK YOU NEW 52! WHY DID YOU TAKE THIS FROM ME?! WTF!

Batman: The Road Home

1. I only really read this one for context on what was going on in Batgirl and Red Robin, but I do have a couple thoughts.

2. Alfred and Co. have basically kidnapped Hush a.k.a. Thomas Elliot and are holding him hostage in a penthouse. They force him to do appearances as Bruce Wayne while Bruce is still missing, and he is soooooooo salty about this. This is objectively funny.

3. Vicki Vale is actually a really cool character who deserves better. A bit lacking in the common sense and self-preservation departments, but cool nonetheless. She's pushy and invasive and catty, but she is good at her job and I would be just as irritated as her if I had fallen as far from grace as her.

3. Bruce, you're an a**hole. You wanna tell people you're home instead of putting them through insane tests of skill and character while disguised as some random and possibly malevolent vigilante? They GRIEVED you! Some of them are probably STILL grieving! Give Dick a hug dammit!

4. Ra's, you're a creepy weirdo. Go back to brooding in your vampire box now please!

The Dark Knight Returns by Frank Miller

1. These books are REALLY FREAKING GOOD. I know, who woulda thought, seeing as how it's one of the most popular and talked about Batman comics ever. But seriously. You should read these. I was reluctant to do so, since a lot of people were like "Oh it's Frank Miller, he's edgy, and his Batman has all the tired edgy Batman tropes." I'm sorry, you don't see him using guns, you don't see him killing anyone, you don't see him being a terrible person. This Batman NEEDS a therapist. Desperately. But he's also still a good person. This is ACTUALLY cool edgy Batman, where his issues are used to create a more compelling narrative, not the "cool" edgy Batman that operates under the "grimdark is cool" principle.

2. I almost cried a couple times! This comic has an overwhelming melancholy feel that I just really enjoyed. Everything and everyone feels tired and sad. Everyone. The best part is that this comic is told primarily from Bruce's perspective and Bruce is SO empathetic and caring, that he feels not only his own melancholy, but everybody else's too, and it's so effective! I think the best example is when Two-Face, recently released from Arkham, goes full relapse and Batman is forced to tie him up and leave him for the cops. He looks at Harvey and just goes "That's a kindred spirit, and I feel for him."

3. The story is told interspersed with TV stations and news radio fighting and bickering and reporting. Nobody is quite sure what to make of the Batman situation, and almost all of them feel negatively about it. The only reporter who actually seems in support of Batman is Lana Lang, and she's also one of the few people who feels RATIONAL during the comic. Like, everybody is reacting very poorly and with panic and contempt towards Batman's return, and it really really isn't helpful. You get this feeling of "it's us against the world," and it really contributes to the vibes.

4. Bruce is an old man. He's technically only 55, but a lifetime of fighting crime, trying (and failing to quit), and becoming dependent on alcohol to keep away the nightmares and the call to dress up as The Rodent of Vengeance will seriously mess up your body. Every time he gets in a fight, he is extremely conscious of how slow he is, how much more he can feel each hit, how much of an advantage all of the youngsters he's fighting have on him. It's to the point that he literally has to plan around his old age and failing body.

5. Alfred is PEAK SASSY in here, and it's beautiful! I actually think this might have the best characterization of Alfred, like, ever. He loves Bruce. That's his kid. Not his master. His kid. He's not gonna leave him alone. But, he also has too much dedication to his role as "butler" to actually stop him from doing anything STUPID, so he resorts to just sassing the man RUTHLESSLY instead. And for all the sass he gives Bruce about being Batman, he's also just as deep into this weird lifestyle. The highlight is definitely Alfred telling Bruce after the first night out that if it's suicide he's after, Alfred has an old family recipe that will be just as slow and excruciating, but less illegal.

6. Commissioner Gordon does not, never has, and never will get paid enough for dealing with this. Commissioner Yindel has no idea what steaming pile of sh*t she's just stepped into, and Gordon tried to warn her. Gordon, even though he continues to not particularly approve, remains one of Batman's staunchest allies through the whole thing. It's actually really heartwarming to see their "brothers in arms" thing they've got going.

7. OHMIGOSH CARRIE KELLEY! That is one AMAZING Robin right there!

Do you know how she becomes Robin? She sees Gordon turn on the batsignal, and she's ✨inspired✨ She saves up two weeks of lunch money, buys a Robin costume, grabs a slingshot and some fireworks, and starts fighting criminals and discreetly following Batman around. Like, that's just some sheer tenacity right there! My girl has moxie! She has grit! She has heart! She's the perfect Robin!

Anytime I do stuff with Carrie Kelley, I will be including the fireworks. Her first act as Robin is to stick a firecracker in a mugger's back pocket. Seriously.

Her first thing she does with Batman is to follow him to a really dangerous fight, find him at the end, drag his unconscious, broken body back to the batmobile, splints his arm with her girl scout training, and get him back to Alfred so he doesn't DIE! Batman, already feeling extremely sad because he misses Dick, decides to train her and take her on.

Poor Carrie! Her parents are awful! Like, they don't remember they have a kid level awful! Being with Bruce might be child endangerment, and he might be a quiet stoic bastard who keeps threatening to fire her, but at least he acknowledges her existence!

Carrie, my darling, my dear, my sweet baby girl, I don't understand HALF the stuff that comes out of your mouth! You and your 80s slang. Sweet mercy.

8. I think this universe had a. . .um. . . Marvel Civil War thing. Like, the whole thing is that Superman works for the government, invisibly, instead of publicly. He has to follow their orders, and he doesn't like it, but it does mean he still gets to save people. Oliver/Green Arrow apparently didn't listen and is rotting in jail (Bruce has to bust him out in the last issue). It's implied to be, along with the death of Jason, the thing that made Batman quit. Now that he's back, the whole government is NOT HAPPY about it. They mostly just try to ignore him with "not my circus, not my monkeys," but, the president does sic Clark on him to try to talk him down. Clark predicts that this'll go badly, but tries anyway. His prediction is correct.

9. Poor Selina! You didn't deserve that. TBH, nobody except Joker deserves what happens to them in this book. It's all just really tragic and sad.

10. Bruce is a deeply unwell man in this comic. Like, he definitely seems at his most emotionally healthy and lucid while he's being Batman, but that kind of obsessive drive clearly isn't good for him, mentally or physically. He's kind of just, purposeless and slipping away before he takes up the cowl, and afterwards, he is so so sad and feels like he's succumbed to his worst impulses. It's a lose lose lose situation for him. Poor dude.

11. F*ck you Joker. 'Nuff said. Stay dead this time please.

12. Batman, you've emotionally adopted Carrie. I know you're actively doing child endangerment and stuff, but you care about this little girl. You can stop referring to her as "good soldier."

13. The shot of Batman on the horse makes me want to write a Wild West AU of Batman, because that was a vibe and a half!

14. Just go read this one, seriously, it's good.

TL;DR

I know I didn't put in a segment on Batgirls, but I wanna finish that one first! It'll probably get it's own post!

Basically, this post boils down to:

Batfam comics are really great. I like reading the comics. At least the outdated ones that I was reading.

Steph is the best, put some respect on her name.

Comic books are funny.

Comics are heartwarming.

Tim has supervillain vibes and sad wet cat vibes at the same time.

The Dark Knight Returns is really sad and really good.

F*CK THE NEW 52!

That's all I've got for you! I still gonna be stewing on these for DAYS, but this at least helped get it out of my system. Now go read some comic books!

[ravenkinnie]

Miss ma’am do you have any (comics/ntt) Raven headcanons becaause I’d love to hear some

I'm sorry I just went off but she's my babyyyy

* this is kind of canon but Raven learned ASL for Joey and I LOVE that for her!!! anyway I love the idea of her just being linguistically talented and speaking a lot of languages, especially because she can just nyoom wherever she wants so it just makes sense she would travel a lot and want to learn those linguistics quirks and such from other people and have those little pieces of knowledge that are like connections to humanity

*also, because she travels by herself I think it's fun if she had motion sickness when travelling in cars because she's not used to that at all

* also kind of canon, throughout the series she would say that healing physically and emotionally is a compulsion for an empath but it's also established there are limits to what she can heal - and Raven is so connected to that identity as an empath and can still feel all the physical and emotional pain and such that I imagine it would be a push towards things like community outreacha nd volunteer work, like when she would help out at the school for kids with disabilities with Vic and such. I will not remember now at what point it's canon but she would go to funerals just to take on people's emotions and grief and help them get through the day

I feel like she would focus more on healing over time rather than combat, she would still be involved in that world (maybe in sentinels of magic, just let her grow up y'all) but a lot of her time would be spent healing people, maybe helping out in hospitals.

also, imagine you don't have health insurance and your doctor is just like don't worry I know someone who can do it for free

* speaking of Vic, I LOVE THEIR RELATIONSHIP PLS he grows from this place of (earned ngl this girl is a mess) distrust towards caring about her and I like to imagine their relationship as sort of big brother-little sister relationship. he calls her his sister and people are like 👀 but also most people choose not to question a 6'6 cyborg and a 5'11 eldritch horror

also, she grew up without technology so she's horrible with it, she types with one finger like every mom ever. Vic teaches her how to use a computer and it mostly works out fine but she also puts google.com in the google search bar. Vic is just like well, you gotta pick your battles

(another thing to note here, Raven is canonically, like, taller than Dick. she's almost as tall as Bruce. this is an absolutely insane piece of information I can't cope with ever)

*on topic of bodies, Ravens soul is separate from her body and that's so!!! because she's still part human I imagine knowing your mind and your body are not the same thing would create a sort of disconnect and dysphoria because we as people need to feel connected to our bodies and we carry a lot of our emotional states in our bodies. you will find a lot of trauma resources might focus on physical exercise and connecting to your body so!!!

- Raven gets tattoos!! she has one canonically (a fucking tramp stamp which I tend to move to a shoulder blade if I write about it because, well, it's a tramp stamp) but I think the experience of her own pain that leaves a mark, and not a scar but a piece of art, would feel quite healing

- Dick tries to teach her gymnastics. he's very happy she can heal broken bones.

- Kory is the one who can really get her out of her shell so she's usually the one who offers ideas for activities. she's probably the one whos most likely to teach Raven how to swim.

* she's a wlw, like I'm sorry there's no way she's not, have you seen her relationships lmao I mean she probably has limited concept of sexuality because she just didn't grow up with any expectations or conversations around that. She's like one of those people who dont label themselves but she has a strong preference towards women

* she's a cambion and a lot of mythology includes demons not being able to reproduce, plus I think she would simply choose not to have biological children so she doesn't pass on her demonic heritage - even though there are so many (mostly shipping) headcanons out there that include her having kids. HOWEVER, I think because she has this naturally caring nature she would end up adopting orphans that just find their way to her Batman-style

* I like goth Raven fanart but I just cannot imagine her actually dressing like that, not my Raven lmao I think she would wear a lot of skirts and dresses in light colours like light blues, pastels etc

it color codes her sensitive side rather than the dark side that doesn't define her and also on an aesthetic side I think because she has this super pale skin and clear blue eyes I think she would look so cute and soft and I simply love that for her

[flashfuture]

Let’s talk about canon Batfam things. Basically I just wanna jot down a list of batfam relationship things in canon that might make your fanworks more spicy. 

As well they’re great for generating AUs because if you know how things are then you can ask, but what if?

Okay let’s get started with some relationships-

It’s pretty common knowledge that Damian and Tim don’t get along. Dick and Damian do get along. And I think a lot of people know that Damian and Steph get along

But did you know that Tim was the first one to reach out to Damian? That even now after years of mental and physical abuse Tim would die for his baby brother and mourned his death so heavily he hallucinated him.

Dick and Damian do not have a perfect relationship. Dick has knocked Damian flat on his ass before when he’s getting out of line. Dick does not have endless patience and no one tests patience like Damian.

Duke has never once been afraid of Damian and they hang out sometimes

Jason and Damian don’t really know each other that well. Jason rarely is in Gotham and he’s tried to reach out to Damian but the boy is rude and Jason doesn’t have time for that. Still Jason would do anything for his brother and probably vice versa.

Jason and Tim on the other hand is an interesting one. Started from the bottom and now we here type of deal. We all know Jason tried to kill Tim and was angry as hell. But currently Tim is Jason’s favorite sibling. They get along well and seem to hang out every once and awhile. Jason couldn’t even bring himself to go to Tim’s funeral. Not that he was really dead of course.

Another thing in fanfiction is that everyone is equally loved or Cass is the favorite (she deserves it). But in the comics it’s pretty much non negotiable- Dick is Bruce’s favorite kid.

Important to note about Dick and Bruce which might give more insight to their relationship and why it’s so much stronger. They are not just father and son. They’re also brothers and friends. Many people including Clark have said no one knows Bruce like Dick does. The way Bruce and Dick act is not comparable to the way the others interact with Bruce and he interacts with them.

Dick is adopted by Bruce. He was adopted as an adult in the early 2000s. There are lots of in universe reasons given for this. Important to note that the real reason is back in 1940 a single male was not adopting a kid he had no blood relation to. Bruce had to fight tooth and nail to get guardianship and even had that questioned once or twice. But of course from this point in time twenty years ago Bruce could have adopted Dick but to keep the stories the same and stuff they have to make up reasons to why he didn’t.

When Jason was introduced Dick was angry. He was jealous. And he was hurt that his dad replaced him. Dick told Jason to call him if he needed help and gave him an old costume. They weren’t brothers in the sense that Dick was spending weekends at home. Remember this is when Bruce and Dick were on the outs. They get along better now in post rebirth but there is a bit of tension with Dick faking his death.

Another interesting point. Dick and Cass do not get along in the comics. Dick doesn’t trust Cass and she is tired of being judged by him. They don’t interact often and Dick wants nothing to do with her. I haven’t really seen them talk post Flashpoint so I have no idea what’s up with that. But they basically erased Cass from the Batfam in New 52 so whatever make up what you will I don’t want her erased.

Steph isn’t really a batkid she’s more like a bat-in law between Tim and the very popular I hope it’s canon soon StephCass ship. 

Babs is also not a batkid. She works with the Batfam but her main squad is the Birds of Prey.

Anyways feel free to add anything. I just think these could be fun points in fanfiction to address. Basically a lot of Batfam fics I read have everyone getting along with no biases but like you have your favorites and that’s normal. Parents shouldn’t say who their favorites are obviously but humans latch onto some tighter than others. Siblings do the same. But also I like reading about non abusive batdad so what are ya gonna do. 

Edit: When I say batkid I mean one of Bruce’s kids. Not a member of team Batman. Just want to clarify. Steph and Babs are obviously very important to the Batman/Gotham Team Roster. 

Edit 2: For Jason I mean anything Post Flashpoint really. Post Crisis Jason was a mess and he had his reasons but he really was just out for blood.

[anastasiaskywalker4]

MisterLuu

That is actually the best pairing DC can make out of Trinity aside Lois and Clark. Or Bruce

and Clark for that matter. They both fit Bruce well, though Diana is even more matched with

him. In fact she's the best match romantically for him out there. At least so far. Though

number of fanfiction and arts on the net would suggest that that spot is reserved for

Superman not Wonder Woman :D

Except maybe for Silver and Julie - all Batman's love interest are abusive and downright

toxic. Selina, Talia, Adrea, Jet. Because in terms of comics and not relationships it fits

Gotham mold. People just tend to forget it after rebirth run. Yeah the one that made Batman

impotent and unable to do anything without the Cat around. Exactly that one. And tend to

forget how terrible as human beings his lovers really are.

Going back to the point. Both Talia and Selina tried to kill him multiple times in the past, or

those close to him. Whatever right? Who wouldn't like a lover that tried to end you few times

over. Both assaulted him physically and emotionally. Repeatedly. Both scared his body and

his mind. Repeatedly. Both tried to seduce his wards (adopted sons if u like), just to get to

him. In Talia's case that was basically pedophilia. That's just sick and makes you want to

puke. Both are possessive bitches, Cat threatening his flings while they are in bed while

Talia, well Talia can even go as far as beheading (to her credit she was right with this one).

Both makes him a goddamn hypocrite. Both face no repercussions after a cold blooded

murder while at the same time he berates Diana like a dick when she came to look for his

friendship and support after Max incident. Difference is she had no choice while Selina or

Talia most certainly had. Great move Bats, hypocrite much? And most importantly they both

lie and betray him, and leave him. Over and over again. Again, that's a constant with Cat

and miss Al Ghul. Diana never showed any of those traits with any of her lovers.

Get any counselor or psychiatrist to read actual Bat love history throughout the decades

and they would be writing books on how disfuncional they are. For a love-hate dynamics

they work fine. Or for some adrenaline fueled sex, but that's it. Hell, he even banged Dinah

when they were on adrenaline high. It all has a clinical term. Trauma bonding. As opposed

to authentic bonding. Which he could have with WW, had even one of them tried.

They did not though. Out of fear of ruining their mutual respect and deep bond. In

pre-flashpoint it may have been a thing if Diana acted on it. Again, Diana, not Bruce, so cut

the crap on how he was deflecting her. He was in doubt, yeah, but clearly was ready to give

it a go. She was the one that got scared even though she was clearly had over bat hills in

love with him. Even Martian stated this to Supes. Pre Crisis ? Not really. Some flirting and

kissing, nothing more. Post-flashpoint, New 52 and Rebirth ? Also not, though DC like to

tease those two. Forever Evil gets a hint that Bruce feels more than friendship towards her,

much to Selina's dismay. And that goddamn tension when they got to spends decades

together in another realm. Mostly from Diana side again. But no. The real canon love that Diana had for Bruce was during pre-flashpoint, not counting alternative universes. And it

was so strong that it showed her loving him more than her mother and sisters. And her

lasso forced her to admit it when facing Mera. But Bruce was "dead" at that point. So yeah,

never acted upon this. Pity. You could see she regretted it.

Aside their comics history in canon universe, realistically speaking Diana is way more

similar to Bruce than Selina will ever be (or Talia for that matter). Even though at a the first

glance they are nothing alike. She's the light , he's the darkness. She believes in love and

trust, tries to see the good in everyone. He's cunning, distrustful and downright realistic to

her idealistic approach. She's honest and straight while he will not hesitate to lie or to use

violence to get results. And you know what? It makes for great couple chemistry and

tension. It may be a cliche, yeah, but Yin and Yang dynamics work. That's why Clark ends

up with Lois all the freaking time. Even on elseworlds he and Diana are a thing only after

Lois is out of the picture. But that's not the most important thing. Yin and Yang provides for

a tension yes, but it would never last in the long run. For a relationship you need also

something in common. And Bruce has that in spades with Diana.

They might be on opposite side of the spectrum but than you realize how much alike they

really are. They are both kindred spirits. Both born fighters, warriors at heart. Arguably two

of the best in the world. At least Diana is according to Batman. And judging by Wonder

Woman's choices in man that is a highly important trait to her. Both endlessly fighting for

others. Both have utmost respect and admiration for each other. Both tirelessly train to

make themselves physically and spiritually better. Constantly. And to make the other better.

Their sparring sessions are legendary. And heated. Both with a great heart and

compassion. I would argue that Bruce's compassion is even bigger than Diana's. Even

though their methods might differ they share the same goal, which he has with no other

woman. Both have the heart of a warrior and are pushed by the circumstances of their

upbringing to reach for impossible dreams. They are also two of the most stubborn and

obstinate people in DC universe. Both perfectly capable of operating solo, and yet both

performing the best in a team. And yes, Bats is a great team player. Both natural leaders

that other heroes follow without hesitation. Both selfless and able to sacrifice for those they

value, trust and love. None of the other Bat trollups have any of those traits. Not to mention

they emotionally and physically find the other highly attractive. One being a literal goddess

and the other perfect male specimen. As for Batman, his relationships tend to collapse due

to a lack of trust. He's either unwilling to bring his romantic partner fully into his world or he

can't bring himself to trust completely. While Selina got his trust now, it's recent

development. And a mistake judging by latest issues. Again. One would think he's smarter.

When it comes to Diana, he trusts her. Fully. She's not privy like BatClan is to his world, but

they aren't that close in mainstream DC. She's not a psycho with daddy issues or a violent

narcissist. List can go on. Selina on the other hand doesn't have that much in common with

Bruce than she has. Not even close. He loves her, yes. But I don't see Di leaving him

countless times over the choices he makes. Or lying, or betraying, or trying to sleep with

Dick to spite him or... you get the point. Though there is one thing that gives Kyle an edge.

Immortality. Diana won't die unless killed. It doesn't make for a great long term relationship

prospect. But then again, those are comics, and he's a goddamn Batman. He would find a

way :)

The thing is - there is no other woman that fits his world as much as Diana does. And Bat is

capable to loving deeply and going to great commitments with a special woman. He showed

it with Andrea, he showed it with Silver. Problem is he always got burned. Every time he let

his guard down and opened himself. And he would have to do it when it comes to Wonder

Woman. She deserves that. It's hard to imagine with current Bruce, but it is most definitely

possible. It would be harder than with an ex criminal or an assassin though. Because there

would be much more on the line. The other two would crawl back anyway if he messed it

up, Di wouldn't.

There is also another aspect to this outside comic universe. His partners tend to be minor

characters compared to WW. She has her own series, JL, JL dark and every major

crossover/event happening in DC. They don't. And so does Batman. Both are one of the

most popular DC characters.

Besides changes to Bruce writing that are needed to make this work (cough.. pre flashpoint

Bats... cough), it would require fitting it to their distinctive titles. And frankly Diana can easily

function without any love interest and generate money. It's even easier that way. It fits her

as an independent, strong female character. Arguably most iconic of them all. And It's most

certainly easier for DC with a tease here and there than an actual WonderBat in mainstream.

Maisterluu wrote this is a comment on a YouTube video which is dow in the comments. They make really good points for ww and bats. No hate to other DC ships with ww and bats.

[crystal-witchiness]

***Okay so I found this in my notes from May 2021 as a reaction to the scenes in the beginning of Endgame when Captain Marvel first brings Tony and Nebula back to Earth, when they first get off the ship, and when Tony yells at Steve a few scenes later when he looks like ‘Death Warmed Over’ in his robe and i thought I’d share -

Every time someone argues with me about my ABSOLUTE 100% belief that Steve and Tony had romantic feelings for each other, I’ll just show them this scene. “And I needed YOU.” He didn’t say “You guys” or “Your help.” Tony looked at Steve with so much pain in his eyes and said, “I needed y o u.” And Steve is just as broken watching Tony. This isn’t the first time this has happened between them. They had MANY scenes like this in Civil War (but I like to pretend that movie didn’t happen cause ‘ow blow a hole in my ship why dontcha?’) I mean technically I could submit that whole movie as evidence of their feelings but there are too many negative emotions wrapped up in it and it hurts. This movie is the first time they’ve seen each other since Civil War and when Tony first gets off the ship he basically falls into Steve’s arms. First of all, Steve fricking S P R I N T S when he sees Tony getting off the ship, then Tony sighs in relief and lets Steve take his weight. AND IMMEDIATELY begins unloading his grief about losing Peter cause he knew Steve would understand and comfort him. You can SEE s e e when Pepper runs up that (Ofc Tony does another sigh of relief that the snap didn’t take her (which I wish it did sorry Pepper your character stopped being interesting in the 2nd Iron Man)) Tony has to pull himself off of Steve and pretend to have it more together than he does because Pepper immediately begins crying and Tony has to comfort her. But Steve doesn’t leave his side. Tony cradling Pepper but he’s turning his body so that Steve can cradle him and ugh. Honestly I would have accepted a polyamorous relationship. Tony NEEDED someone to be the leader. THATS LITERALLY WHAT PEPPER WAS TALKING ABOUT. Tony NEVER rests because he always thinks he has to be the one to do everything, EXCEPT for when Steve’s around. Steve is the Captain and even though they bump heads (a lot, awww couples’ squabbles) Tony ALWAYS defers to Steve when it’s important. And Steve? Steve HAS to be a leader, to be helpful, in a healthy way because he couldn’t be that for most of his life in the past. He was a scrawny defenseless guy who always had to depend on Bucky. So to be able to take care of this group of wonderful people who are so powerful and yet STILL NEED STEVE? It’s who he his. It’s who Tony is too but he doesn’t WANT to be that way, he does it because he has to. He does it when no one else can or he doesn’t want to lose anyone else. This scene right now is Tony feeling helpless and so he lashes out at the easiest person, Steve. Steve is their leader and has saved them many times. Tony saw that picture of Peter and couldn’t handle his own feelings of helplessness so he lashed out to bring down the next ‘leader figure’ of the group. Steve and Tony have always been the parents of the Avengers. Steve is the most dad-est dad ever to dad. Meanwhile, Tony invites everyone to live with him while feeding them, clothing them (armor and civilian clothes) and making sure they have top of the line protection. HE LITERALLY EVEN SAYS THIS IN AGE OF ULTRON. SUCH a mom. So he wanted to make Steve feel his pain because Steve made a promise that they would lose together and Steve wasn’t there on that moon. And OF COURSE Tony knows that Steve was on earth fighting his own battle against Thanos but he wasn’t WITH Tony. And they are always stronger together than apart. (Civil War kinda proved this too) Tony sees Steve’s absence as the reason they lost, because ‘if only they’d been together’ ‘maybe we could have won if we’d only been together.’

ALSO DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED ON TONY LITERALLY GIVING STEVE A REPRESENTATION OF HIS HEART. I know he did it out of anger and to make a point but he took away this piece of him, that he made SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE HE FELT VULNERABLE WITHOUT THE ARC, and gave it to Steve. Once again shedding that responsibility and giving it to Steve. Because even with the residual anger over Civil War, Tony trusts Steve. He says otherwise in this moment out of anger but that “vision” he talks about here? He literally watches Steve die (YEAH THATS RIGHT I SAID STEVE. Not PEPPER, NOT RHODEY, NOT ANY OF THE OTHER AVENGERS.) Wanda showed him his worst fear in Age of Ultron and it was the death of the Avengers, but he didn’t see THEM die. Everyone else, Thor, Bruce, Natasha, and Clint were already dead. Tony watched STEVE die and it was STEVE saying that Tony could’ve saved them that spurred him into creating Ultron. He was so scared of losing them and letting Steve down (and letting him die) that he wanted to wrap the whole world in armor to protect him. And he tries to do it again in this scene. He means it to be spiteful but he gives Steve his armor and tells him to hide from Thanos. WHICH IS ANOTHER THING UGH. Tony doesn’t know that out of all of the people who fought Thanos in Wakanda that day, Steve was the one who engaged in hand-to-hand combat with him. Everyone else had armor and suits, weapons, etc. Steve has his serum strength and he u s e d it. It didn’t help for very long but he used his BARE HANDS to fight an alien-monster wielding 5/6 of ALL POWERFUL infinity stones, and ofc he was never going to win, but even Thanos looked at Steve in incredulity at his bravery and resolve. A human (a super charged one at that but still a human) fought him with his bare hands and wasn’t going to stop. (Steve proved this again at the end of Endgame when he’s the last one standing against Thanos and his entire army and just tightens the strap on his broken shield, (and most likely broken arm, based on the flinch/hiss) and readies himself to fight alone. Steve also gave Wanda time to destroy the mind stone (unfortunately, that didn’t mean anything in the end)

AND YET Tony doesn’t know any of this. He doesn’t know how hard Steve fought, just like Tony did on Titan, to stop Thanos. And I REALLY wish we had seen Tony’s reaction to Steve standing up to Thanos at the end of Endgame OR EVEN WIELDING MJOLNIR, but anyways.

Back to the basics. Boss level stuff most people don’t remember or think about- Tony’s dad very unhealthily IDOLIZED Steve. He canonically compared everything Tony did to Steve. So Tony grew up idolizing this man that he also despised because it fueled his father’s abuse of him. Tony shows this anger in the first Avengers. When they have their argument on the quinjet. “Everything special about you came out of a bottle.” He even says something about how Steve didn’t live up to his father’s hype (I don’t remember Tony’s exact words but that’s the gist) And ofc Steve says Tony’s nothing without his armor. But then they go on the prove each other wrong multiple times, but mainly in their last moments in the MCU. Steve proves it by standing alone against an ENTIRE alien army and later by picking up mjolnir. And Tony? Tony is that ONE factor in a million that Stephen sees. Tony, a beautifully pure human-being, with no powers or serums to help, takes on the powers of the stones. KNOWING it would kill him. He had proof. It nearly killed Thanos and Bruce and they were hulking (pun intended) beings with super strength and all that.

Tony and Steve were always set up to be spoils to one another and that makes them perfect together. They balance each other out. Pepper was a boss b****, no doubt, and I loved their relationship in the first two Iron Man movies, but as their characters grew and Tony’s personality was intrinsically changed through trauma- Pepper was no longer right for him. She was good for him, no doubt, but Tony couldn’t relax with her as he did with Steve. Tony could trust Steve to take over and everything could be fine. Pepper was like that for Stark Industries but not in other ways. Tony always saw himself as Pepper’s protector. I will 100% give her props for telling Tony that he’d never rest until he tried Scott’s time travel theory, but other than that she wasn’t particularly supportive of Iron. Man. What Pepper never seemed to understand, and what Steve didn’t understand when he FIRST met Tony, is that Tony and Iron Man are synonymous. Their is no ‘man outside the suit.’ Tony Stark is Iron Man and Iron Man is Tony Stark. Steve was placed into an already created persona of Captain America. Steve didn’t create Captain America even though that’s who he was. He was literally MADE for the role. Tony on the other hand, MADE Iron Man. He was the one who built the first suit - dying in a cave in Afghanistan. He was the one who took responsibility for Obadiah and his father’s actions and became a superhero to save the countries that were affected by Stark tech. Steve may have volunteered to be a superhero because he felt like he had no one other choice but Tony DIDN’T HAVE TO. He had fame, money, power, ALL OF IT. He could’ve EASILY hidden his company’s dark underside once he found out. But instead, Tony was like “Hey um so my company has done some bad things and instead of delegating aid through my money and power, I’m going to personally handle this with a titanium alloy suit and technology that I helped create in a cave while being held captive by a terrorist cell.”

Where was I going with this? OH YEAH.

I will believe in TonyxSteve (Stony) for the rest of my life and I will use fanfiction to fill the void of their deaths. Basically, if I lost anyone in the word vomit above, what I’m trying to say is that- Steve and Tony completed each other. They provided something the other needed. Tony needed stability and protection. He needed to feel like he could let go. Steve needed an anchor in the present. Someone lively and opinionated, SOMEONE ADVENTUROUS AND FUNNY, who Steve could smile with and protect. But also. Steve trusted Tony to be a leader as much as Tony trusted him. They had their ups and downs. Trauma and the Accords didn’t help their relationship at all, but should’ve been it for each other. And I honestly believe they would have t h r i v e d.

.

.

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Honestly I applaud anyone who made it this far. I don’t know where this all came from but I will not apologize✌🏻

I rest my case your honor.

[forevercloudnine]

batman forever riddlebat ship meme

(This one was inevitable. God, do I love this movie. @heroes-etc​ gave me questions from this ship meme.)

2. Who is the most insecure and what makes them feel better?

The obvious answer here is Edward because he is... clearly and pathologically insecure in his identity and requiring outside approval. You could argue he gets over this once he adopts his flamboyant supervillain identity, but as soon as he steps out of it to be Edward Nygma again he’s as self-conscious as ever. On some level his Bruce cosplay at the Nygmatech party is probably supposed to be a dig at his former idol, but it’s pretty transparent that he’s paranoid about not measuring up, especially once Bruce actually walks in.

As for what makes him feel better, two obvious high points of his self-esteem right off the bat (lol) are when Bruce is giving him positive attention in his intro scene, and directly afterwards when he’s murdering his boss for ragging on him.

Of course, neither external validation or murder is, like, a permanent solution to insecurity. Obviously. If they ever got together Bruce would probably make him go to therapy, which would be incredibly hypocritical because, as Dr. Meridian points out in this movie, that’s not exactly something Bruce is doing. Although in Bruce’s defense, if you count the novelizations as canon for this continuity, the psychiatrist Alfred hired for him as a child basically wrote him off as a lost cause that was going to inevitably self-destruct at some point in adulthood. So I can see why he’d think therapy isn’t for him. 

"Young Bruce may seem quite the stalwart, but there’s still a child beneath that veneer of calm acceptance [...] The day will come when that veneer crumbles, and the boy reacts to the memory of his ordeal. Such matters may be postponed, but not indefinitely. And the longer this one is delayed, the greater the damage will be to his psyche.”

“Still,” Alfred pressed. “How do you think this will all come out? Off the record, if you prefer.”

Another pause. “I am not terribly optimistic,” the stout man admitted. “But I assure you, I will do my best.”

Alternatively, Bruce just lets Edward borrow his clothes and calls it a day. It’s less time consuming than therapy and both the movie and novelization demonstrate how into that Edward is.

He was murmuring to himself, “We’ll probably be dining at Wayne Manor together.” He envisioned Bruce sitting across from him, and began to launch into a narrative [...] “Yes. Yes. A Party in my honor? I should have rented a tuxedo. What?” he couldn’t believe it, “One of yours, Bruce?” He gave it a moment’s thought and then shrugged. “Why not? We are the same size.”

3. Who is the most romantic?

 Uh, not Bruce! Batman Forever is the most thoughtfully romantic he gets in the entire series, and even here his only two dates ideas are “whatever Gotham social event my secretary tells me I need a date for” and “coming on to my date in my alternate identity to see if she loves me enough not to cheat on me with Batman.” Also, he vacillates between staunchly refusing to do any flirting at all and dishing out the least romantic pick-up lines possible.

You say “bad writing,” I say “totally in character for a hot rich guy who knows that this is as hard as he has to try to get into someone’s pants.” Bruce might love his partner with the intensity of a thousand dying suns, but he’s still sending Alfred to buy all their Valentine’s Day presents. His idea of a romantic evening for two is finally trusting someone enough to tell them his secret identity. If he’s done that already, or they already figured it out, then his playbook is over. That’s clearly the only romantic fantasy he’s ever allowed himself.  

(I was going to say he does this once every movie, but he actually never does this in Batman & Robin specifically because he doesn’t actually care about Julie Madison. She proposes to him and he gets her name wrong while shooting her down. Add that to the “Bruce Wayne isn’t romantic” box.)

The ridiculous amount of magazine cut-outs populating Edward’s apartment indicates that he probably has a very vibrant and extensive set of fantasies involving Bruce, which is hinted at a couple times in the novelization.

Edward would certainly know him when he saw him. He’d spent enough time anticipating the moment, after all [...] Finally he was going to be meeting Bruce Wayne face-to-face, and he had every moment of the encounter scripted [...] He’d rehearsed it to perfection in his mind for weeks upon months.

In the grand scheme of things... in the fabulous, sweeping, intertwining destinies of Bruce Wayne and Edward Nygma, such a slip would not even rate a footnote.

He becomes suddenly and painfully aware that if Bruce Wayne walked away without Edward Nygma by his side, then that would be it. It would be finished. All these weeks, months... indeed, a lifetime of planning... and it was crumbling under him just like that.

Of course, that doesn’t necessarily mean his fantasies are all romantic in the traditional sense of the word. This is a man who was charmed by Harvey holding a charity circus hostage with some kind of graffitied missile warhead. Tonally, there’s not even that much of a difference between his crush collages and his riddle death threats.

What’s weirder, using a magazine cutout of someone you hate to make a pop-up card of their face, or using a magazine cutout of someone you love to replace the anatomically correct heart in the cardiovascular system diagram you keep in your apartment/arcade/makeshift laboratory? Probably the former, since it was made with the express purpose of Bruce actually seeing it. Although presumably Edward was planning on taking Bruce to his apartment at some point? And in the novelization, he actually drags Bruce into his cubicle to look at his Wayne Shrine.

He grabbed Bruce’s arms and shouted “No, don’t leave me! I need you!” [...] Bruce was thunderstruck as he was pulled partway into Edward’s office... and then he caught sight of the shrine. 

Edwards’s head bobbed eagerly. Now, finally, Bruce would understand the depth of Nygma’s devotion to his idol. He would see how important he was to Nygma.

Notably, the only thing that upsets Bruce about the fact that one of his employees has a serial killer wall dedicated to him at their work station (@heroes-etc: realistically.... IS this the first time this has happened? i doubt it.) is the fact that the shrine includes a picture of him taken directly after his parents’ death, which is obviously a huge trigger for Bruce’s PTSD.

Wayne’s gaze zeroed in on the picture of himself as a young man. 

The eyes of Wayne the elder locked with Wayne the younger, and when he slowly turned his scrutiny back to Edward Nygma, Edward could feel the temperature in the cubicle drop to subzero.

Later, once Bruce isn’t being actively reminded of the most traumatizing day of his life, he reflects that he could probably relate to Edward’s specific brand of crazy, and hopes that it’s not too late to try again (it is).

He paused momentarily at Edward Nygma’s cubicle, thinking about the intensity he’d seen in the man’s eyes the other day. Nygma’s ideas might have been a bit odd, but that sort of passion—if properly channeled—could accomplish miracles. That was something Bruce Wayne certainly knew better than anyone else. Perhaps after this fiasco was the time to take Nygma aside under less-pressured circumstances. Start again...

With any other character, I would call bull on their being this unphased by someone being obsessed enough with them to build a stalker shrine, but, like. It’s Batman. He probably has a stalker shrine to Michelle Pfeiffer Catwoman in his cave somewhere. When they start dating, Edward mails the weirdest magazine cutout valentines to his office on the regular, and every time Bruce has to assure his staff that it’s not a ransom letter and it’s just “his boyfriend being romantic.”

9. What is the most embarrassing thing they have done in front of each other?

I mean, by most people’s standards, any one of the things that Edward does in front of Bruce could easily be the most embarrassing thing to happen to them in their lifetime. But for the most part, Edward seems blissfully free of that kind of self-consciousness. He accidentally introduces himself to Bruce as “[extended moaning sound] Bruce Wayne” and shakes it off without even registering his mistake. Even when he feels like Bruce has rejected him and his project, his emotional state is more shocked, saddened, and angry than it is ashamed. He does apologize to Bruce, during the scene where they first meet, for holding on to his hand too long during their handshake. And by “handshake” I mean that Bruce extends his hand to be shaken, and Edward just grabs on and holds it without any motion whatsoever for the entire first half of their conversation. Which might be the only time he ever apologizes in the entire movie. So I’ll say that was his moment of embarrassment.

Bruce only really embarrasses himself in front of Alfred, but Edward does manage to trick Bruce into getting scanned by his mind reading device at the Nygmatech party. Being tricked in general would be pretty awkward for Bruce, since this movie goes out of its way to show the audience how SMART and CLEVER and KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT BRAINWAVES Bruce is at every opportunity. But being tricked into getting your mind read is about a million times more embarrassing than just running into a wall like some kind of Looney Tune. Obviously having access to Bruce’s mind allows Edward to figure out that his former boss/current obsessee is Batman, but also it’s just got to be super weird in there. Bruce is a bizarre man.  

12. What first changes when it starts getting serious?

Whether he’s idolizing Bruce or plotting his destruction, Edward is still seeing the subject of his lifelong obsession as a larger than life exaggeration of the real man. Some of that pedestal would probably survive into the beginning of a romantic relationship, but by the time they got serious Edward would have had to recognize that Bruce has both positive and negative traits. He would also have had to grapple with the fact that the man he once assumed would make everything in his life better is a lot of work to be around, especially in this movie’s continuity where the trauma of his family’s death and his guilt over allowing enemies like Joker to die are genuinely affecting Bruce’s day-to-day functionality.

(A lot of things, Chase.)

Edward’s introduction scene demonstrates that he doesn’t see Bruce as having these kinds of problems. His Escapism Wish Fulfillment Device TM is clearly a very personal project for him, since he, you know. Is kind of already living in a Bruce-centric fantasy world.

When he’s pitching it to Bruce, however, he states that he doesn’t think someone like Bruce would ever need to escape reality (which could just be ingratiating flattery, but he barely seems aware of what he’s saying at the time because he’s too busy staring with his mouth open at Bruce putting on glasses).

(Side note: an interjection from @heroes-etc​

Anyway, moving on.)

Obviously we know he’s wrong, since Bruce escapes his reality every night by dressing up like a bat and scaring people. Normally that’s just subtext (or me being cynical and creating subtext), but Batman Forever introduced a hot psychiatrist who is constantly poking at Batman for being a power fantasy created by a traumatized mind to cope with intense feelings of helplessness in childhood. 

 The novelization makes it clear that it’s not the illusion of perfection that Edward is attracted to, however. The picture of Bruce in Crime Alley is what kickstarts Edward’s obsession, not because Bruce seemed flawless but because he seemed to be going through similar pain as Edward (whatever Edward’s pain even IS in this continuity). So I think recognizing Bruce’s issues would be less of a dealbreaker and more of a point of connection, were they to get serious.

He saw, there in Bruce Wayne’s face, an intensity that mirrored his own. An anger, a frustration at the hand that fate had dealt him. There were no tears on Bruce’s face. Instead there was a smoldering intelligence that Edward intuitively sensed was on par with his own. 

There was something in Bruce’s eyes, something in that gaze. There was Bruce, in a moment of raw emotion, his parents just having been cruelly taken from him. And there was no self-pity. Just cold, hard anger.

[...] Ed still had the newspaper with him when he was walking home from school. Not that he needed it to read; the contents were safely locked away in his skull, thanks to his photographic memory. But he wanted to clip out the articles and pictures about Bruce Wayne. He found the young man fascinating, as if he had discovered a soulmate of sorts.

For Bruce, on the other hand, getting serious presumably just means attempting to include Edward more and more in the found family he builds in the latter half of the 90’s Batman movies. Alfred approving a love interest is not quite as tantamount in this continuity as it is sometimes (Micheal Gough Alfred is pretty laid back), but Bruce is still spending all of his non-Batman, non-socialite time with his butler. So if Edward wants to hang out with Bruce, he has to either get on Alfred’s good side or prepare for a lot of “romantic quality time” where his boyfriend’s dad is glaring at him from the background.

Dick is less important to get on the good side of, since he and Bruce argue all the time in these movies (apparently one of the proposed scripts for Batman & Robin was Bruce kicking Dick out of the house and making him go to college, where Dick would cope with his dad-related anger by bullying his psychology professor Dr. Crane into becoming a supervillain. I personally feel like I deserved to see that Scarecrow origin). So if Dick doesn’t like Bruce’s new boyfriend, it’s just one more thing for them to be catty to each other about.  

Alfred’s niece Barbara Wilson on the other hand (who is adorable as a fusion of Barbara Gordon and Julia Pennyworth, do not @ me) would be absolutely vital for Edward to win over, because her opinion could easily either make or break his standing with her uncle. Also Bruce decided to adopt her within five minutes of meeting her, so he’s obviously fond.

19. Where do they go on their first date?

Edward’s fantasy sequence in the novelization makes it obvious enough that he would really, really like to have dinner at Wayne Manor. Hanging out at someone’s house isn’t really a traditional first date, especially if one of you is a billionaire who could have taken you literally anywhere, but clearly none of that matters to Bruce, because that’s exactly the first date he invites Vicki Vale on in Batman (1989).

It’s pretty painfully awkward (“You want to know the truth? I don’t think I’ve ever been in this room before”) until Bruce gives up on the formality and takes her down to eat the rest of their courses with Alfred in the kitchen.

I feel like his first date with Edward could probably go the same way, with a few major differences. One, Edward would have been super enthused about eating in the fancy dining hall, and Bruce would have only suggested finishing their meal in the kitchen because Edward clearly wanted to see As Much Of The Manor As Possible. Two, when Alfred offers to stop embarrassing Bruce and leave them alone for the end of their date, Edward would have insisted he stay and break out the baby albums. You cannot convince me that Alfred is not a scrapbooker. Actually, does what Edward’s doing count as scrapbooking? Maybe they could compare notes.

[asilentguardian]

Any hints/special scenes for your newest World build of piracy? What can we expect? If that's not a secret? If it is, your favourite headcanons for that particular universe?

Ahhhh, thank you for asking! I’m so excited to talk about this. So I’m not going to talk too much about the plot, but I do want to talk about some things that I don’t think I’ll be able to find a place for in the main story line!

I’m going to try my absolute best to portray Talia correctly and something that I don’t think I’ll be able to fit into the main story is what she does after she removes Damian from The League (The League is a whole other can of worms, but for now just think of them as just slightly less powerful than in canon). In my universe, after escaping the League with Damian, Talia neither wants to stay with Bruce and his crew, nor does she want to return to her father. Instead she decides to go on her own solo adventuring around the world, acting sort of like a solo pirate/vigilante? idk she just wants to see the world through her own lense, not her father’s.

I’m not sure what the exact term I’m looking for is so I hope I’m saying this right, but back in Gotham Selina basically runs a club? brothel? something like that? idk but that’s why she has a large network of informants. She also still steals shit and all her employees still shit. Be gay do crime.

Because I am slowly falling in love with some Kyle Rayner comics, I really want to shove him in here somewhere. I really hope I get to expand on Hal’s backstory and what he does after he learns how to wield the power. So maybe Hal finds Kyle, who already has a ring? or he recruits him? Either way Kyle Rayner my beloved <3

The Justice is a pirate ship captained by Clark :) I don’t know how to work an equivalent to krypton in here so I’m ignoring his backstory :) but Diana and Arthur’s are pretty much the same, just cut their power in half because I need SOME reason for people to fear the great Captain Wayne lol. But basically Bruce was a pirate way before the crew of The Justice cropped up, and I’d say The Justice verges more on the side of privateers, which Bruce isn’t super down with. Either way the two crews are still strong allies :)

I’ve got the entire story of the batfam planned out, but not much of Hal and Bruce’s adventure together, so I have no idea if it will ever even be written. So I’ll talk a little bit about them. At first, of course, they butt heads. Hal has an idea of how pirates are, which doesn’t align with how Bruce runs his ship. Hal keeps questioning and challenging Bruce as if he doesn’t know what he’s doing. Through a series of Plot Reasons, Hal has to stay on the ship with them so he has to earn his keep. Eventually he earns the respect and trust of the crew, and Bruce doesn’t find him as annoying. In fact, Hal looks beautiful with sun tanned skin and calloused hands. Hal’s intelligent and hilarious, he makes Bruce’s kids laugh. Their first kiss is soon after Hal realizes that he’ll have to leave pirating behind for at least a couple of months in order to sort some stuff out with the lanterns. He’s being all angsty and stargazing on deck in the middle of the night and Bruce sees him is like wait omg I think I love him. Cue a series of misunderstandings where Bruce assumes that Hal is like all of his past lovers who didn’t want to deal with life at sea or dating a pirate. Anyways they make out and then Hal has to leave. But he comes back mid Epic Battle with a who calvary in tow and saves Bruce’s ass. They make out in the middle of a very important battle :D

[smallblueandloud]

fsk emotions: the playlist

(i’d like to apologize in advance for how long this is going to get. UPDATE: yeah, this is around 4k, i am So Sorry.)

in case y’all weren’t aware, i have fitzskimmons emotions ALL THE TIME. my poor friends have to deal with me texting them at 11 pm like “i’m freaking out about fsk again” embarrassingly often. so, i figured i’d try to share some of those emotions with y’all, in the form of songs from my private fsk playlist on spotify. 

that playlist is 63 songs long. hopefully i will not feel the need to talk about ALL 63, but i’m not going to make any promises. y’all know what i’m like about this. i’m planning on giving you a list of the songs for your listening pleasure, and then go into detail about the lines / vibes from each song that i think especially fit the ship. we shall see how this goes.

just a warning: my music taste is very all over the place. i associate the sound of 80s love songs with fsk, so there’s gonna be a few of those, but also some weird obscure indie songs and some pop and just... bear with me, okay? these songs are in no particular order, because i have no idea how to make a “”legit”” playlist or whatever the heck y’all are doing to make such good mixes. i’m just gonna stick a tracklist here and move on.

can’t fight this feeling // reo speedwagon

gravity // sara bareilles

new year’s day // taylor swift

don’t go breaking my heart // elton john & kiki dee

dancing in the dark // bruce springsteen

born to be yours // kygo & imagine dragons

i choose you // sara bareilles

ordinary people // john legend

carry on // fun.

blackbird // the beatles

thunder road // bruce springsteen

the long and winding road // the beatles

the archer // taylor swift

army of angels // the script

paper rings // taylor swift

lucky // jason mraz & colbie caillat

wonderwall // zella day

team // noah cyrus

i melt with you // modern english

cornelia street // taylor swift

coroner’s report // molly ofgeography

two // sleeping at last

fair // the amazing devil

arms unfolding // dodie

making love out of nothing at all // air supply

all the song explanations are under the cut, because this is going to get long. there’s also ten honorable mentions if you manage to make it to the end of this. let’s get started!

1. can’t fight this feeling // reo speedwagon

i felt legally required to put this one first because i literally named my magnum opus after it. i like this song a lot on its own, but it specifically reminds me of fsk because the idea of your partner(s) as the place you will always gravitate towards is peak fsk for me. also, these three are canonically each others’ reassurance and rock and i’m just... i love them a lot, okay? this song’s imagery and lyrics have come to be inextricably associated with fsk for me and i love it a lot.

important lyrics: “And even as I wander, I'm keeping you in sight You're a candle in the window on a cold, dark winter's night”

“And if I have to crawl upon the floor, come crashing through your door Baby, I can't fight this feeling anymore“

2. gravity // sara bareilles

this one goes second because it’s probably my favorite song of all time. i play it on repeat whenever i’m feeling sad or anxious or pining or happy or just... anytime, lmao. but i also think it’s a very fsk song, and more specifically the fitzdaisy relationship! not only does it have more of that “gravitating towards each other” theme (more literally in this case), but the lyrics are also... very much fitzdaisy, i think, who are very much each others’ safe space and have been vulnerable with each other from the very beginning.

important lyrics: “ Oh, you loved me 'cause I'm fragile When I thought that I was strong But you touch me for a little while And all my fragile strength is gone”

(although really every single lyric fits really perfectly, so go and check out this song! it’s genuinely my favorite song ever and i think everyone would benefit from a listen or two)

3. new year’s day // taylor swift

the most underrated song from reputation, this song is probably the most INTENSELY fsk song i’ve ever heard. these three have grown up together, have changed together, have left their mark on each other in ways that can never be undone. the thing i’m most nervous for in the series finale is the show completely ignoring that impact (along with all three’s relationships with coulson and may especially!). no matter their romantic configuration, none of them would be the same if they hadn’t known the others. and new year’s day really articulates that, along with a really sweet feeling of trust and the image of them cleaning up together after a party - which makes perfect sense when you think about canon, and how they’d stick together even after leaving the life-changing experience of shield. even though there’s no more life-changing adventures, they’re still going to be together, and that means something. y’all, this song is really good and the best fsk song ever and you NEED to listen to it.

important lyrics: “Hold on to the memories, they will hold on to you And I will hold on to you”

“Please don't ever become a stranger whose laugh I could recognize anywhere”

4. don’t go breaking my heart // elton john & kiki dee

look, just let them be happy, okay? also, i really love the trust aspect of this song, which i associate intensely with the fsk relationship. after all of the betrayal and pain and suffering they’ve experienced, i really love thinking about how much all three must trust each other, even in canon. also i wrote a fic where all three danced to this song and now i won’t ever get that image out of my head.

important lyrics: “Don't go breaking my heart I couldn't if I tried Honey, if I get restless Baby, you're not that kind”

“And nobody told us 'Cause nobody showed us And now it's up to us, babe Whoa, I think we can make it“

5. dancing in the dark // bruce springsteen

okay, this song is a bit darker than the others but i am a secret lover of springsteen, shh. also the mood works VERY well for three agents of shield who haven’t gotten a break since they left college. i really like the idea of them making their own happiness in the middle of the darkness together, because that’s part of why i’m so emotional about them! they are each others’ safe space and protector!

important lyrics: “You can't start a fire Sitting 'round crying over a broken heart This gun's for hire Even if we’re just dancing in the dark”

6. born to be yours // kygo & imagine dragons

heck yeah, let’s talk about the fact that no one in the ot3 would be the same if they hadn’t met the others! not just that, but the fact that they support each other and are a big reason why each of them have made it through the pain of the series with, like, less trauma then they could’ve. fitz was there for daisy when she developed her powers and is the one who talked her into coming back in s4, daisy was there for jemma when she came back from maveth (and in the framework), and jemma and fitz have been supporting each other since they worked things out in s3. also, they know each other insanely well and i think this song does a great job of expressing that!

important lyrics: “I never knew anybody 'til I knew you I never knew anybody 'til I knew you And I know when it rains, oh, it pours And I know I was born to be yours”

7. i choose you // sara bareilles

they! change! together! thank you for coming to my ted talk! also, i’m just... very obsessed with the idea of them choosing to be together, choosing to try to work through their problems, even when there have been so many. i am also obsessed with the idea of them spending their lives together. leave me alone.

important lyrics: “We are not perfect we'll learn from our mistakes And as long as it takes I will prove my love to you I am not scared of the elements I am underprepared, But I am willing And even better I get to be the other half of you”

8. ordinary people // john legend

i really, really love this song, actually? i’m a big fan of a lot of his music lmao. but i like this song specifically because it’s about how complicated love can be sometimes, and i think fsk’s love gets really complicated sometimes! and like, despite it all, they love each other and they’re trying to work it out. but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s really hard sometimes! (shoutout to the fic i titled with a lyric from this song that exemplifies that exactly)

important lyrics: “I know I misbehaved and you made your mistakes And we both still got room left to grow And though love sometimes hurts I still put you first And we'll make this thing work but I think maybe we should take it slow”

9. carry on // fun.

first off, this song has INTENSE post-framework fitz vibes. this is very much how i headcanon his relationship with violence works after they escape from the framework and fuck canon. but also, just, the idea of them all healing together? the idea of them moving on together after shield? poetic cinema. chef’s kiss. they’ve all changed SO MUCH since the show started, and yeah, not all of that change is good! but at least they’re still together.

important lyrics: “You swore and said we are not We are not shining stars This I know I never said we are Though I've never been through hell like that I've closed enough windows to know you can never look back”

10. blackbird // the beatles

i don’t know what about this song reminds me of jemma but something in this song reminds me of jemma, and fitz and daisy helping her heal. regardless, i am So Into them helping each other heal! mostly because the way that the show refuses to give them a break is SO FRUSTRATING. (also it tends to involve them being soft with each other and i am Weak.)

important lyrics: “Blackbird singing in the dead of night Take these broken wings and learn to fly”

11. thunder road // bruce springsteen

this is probably my second favorite song of all time. i am Absolutely Unbiased For Sure. regardless, i adore the imagery of this song, the contrast between the poetic feeling of it and the down-to-earth lyrics. this song, to me, is about people coming back to each other at the end of a long long journey. being in love while tired and recovering from a long, painful, messy life. and that just fits them... so well.

important lyrics: “Well now I'm no hero That's understood All the redemption I can offer girl Is beneath this dirty hood”

“With a chance to make it good somehow Hey what else can we do now Except roll down the window And let the wind blow back your hair? Well the night's busting open These two lanes will take us anywhere“

(y’all do not understand how hard it was to not copy All The Lyrics. you really really have to listen to this song.)

12. the long and winding road // the beatles

EXACTLY THE SAME THING THAT I SAID FOR THE LAST SONG. god this song works so well for them. they are never going to be able to leave each other because they’re so interconnected and yeah, part of that is circumstance, but so MUCH of that is CHOICE. they CHOSE to spend time together, they CHOSE to spend time together, i’m getting emotional over here.

important lyrics: “The long and winding road That leads to your door Will never disappear I've seen that road before It always leads me here Lead me to you door”

13. the archer // taylor swift

this is THE definitive daisy pov song. try to tell me i’m wrong. you can’t. daisy showing vulnerability is a BIG DEAL because of how easily she deflects things! she shows vulnerability to people she loves, most notably mack, coulson, fitz, and jemma! it physically pains me to think about how much she trusts them, y’all. there’s also this sense of melancholy throughout the song, because she’s never going to be the person that she once was. I’m Upset, Y’all.

important lyrics: “Combat, I'm ready for combat I say I don't want that, but what if I do? 'Cause cruelty wins in the movies I've got a hundred thrown-out speeches I almost said to you Easy they come, easy they go I jump from the train, I ride off alone I never grew up, it's getting so old Help me hold onto you”

14. army of angels // the script

this song is courtesy of @theclaravoyant, who recommended this as THE fsk song, and i think she’s very right! they fight TOGETHER, y’all. i’m very emo about it. their love is TRANSCENDENT and helps them OVERCOME their obstacles and i’m Really Upset About It, okay?? this song especially sounds like jemma’s voice, but it works so well for any of them and i Love It.

important lyrics: “When they got me cornered Close to giving in Oh I feel you round me like a second skin”

15. paper rings // taylor swift

*sobbing* i just want them to be HAPPY. i think part of my feelings about this song stem from, like, how fsk manages to find love during really, really dark times? and manages to be in love with each OTHER during the events of the show, which are VERY DARK as i think we can agree. and yet they managed to get together! and they managed to stick together! and idk, y’all, i’m just so soft for permanent partnerships and people being Married(tm) and this song brings that in SPADES.

important lyrics: “Kiss me once 'cause I know you had a long night Kiss you twice 'cause it's gonna be alright Three times 'cause you waited your whole life”

“I like shiny things, but I'd marry you with paper rings Uh huh, that's right Darling, you're the one I want, and I hate accidents except when we went from friends to this“

16. lucky // jason mraz & colbie caillat

this song just SCREAMS domesticity to me and no it’s absolutely NOT because i used a lyric from this song to title my collection of domestic fsk ficlets, i have no idea where you would get such a ridiculous idea. they are all BEST FRIENDS okay and they’re in LOVE and they come HOME TO EACH OTHER at the end of the day. they genuinely like spending time together. god, this song is so cute, i love it so much.

important lyrics: “I'm lucky I'm in love with my best friend Lucky to have been where I have been Lucky to be coming home again Lucky we're in love in every way Lucky to have stayed where we have stayed Lucky to be coming home someday”

17. wonderwall // zella day

before you tell me i’m being stupidly cliche, look at the artist. and then realize that the artist doesn’t make a different for how cliche i’m being. first off, this is such a wlw song (google that one car commercial if you don’t believe me) and skimmons is kind of. my peak wlw song. but also this song is so lovely because it’s about people persevering through challenges to be together, even their own feelings, and that’s VERY good and VERY fsk. i’m just very gay, alright? leave me alone.

important lyrics: “And all the roads we have to walk are winding And all the lights that lead us there are blinding There are many things that I would like to say to you But I don't know how Because maybe You're gonna be the one that saves me And after all You're my wonderwall”

18. team // noah cyrus

this song is from @bobbimorseisbisexual’s fsk playlist (thanks al i love you) and it’s VERY GOOD for this ship. god, i have so many emotions about them being on the same team (which is part of why it’s so FRUSTRATING when the show tries to split them up-). especially because trust is such a big aspect of their relationship? look, these are three people who have been betrayed a lot, even by each other. it’s so IMPORTANT that they trust each other to be on the same team!! (also this song is one of the only songs i’ve ever heard that’s apparently singing to both a man and a woman, and i’m gonna ignore the fact that it’s a duet. let me have my poly songs.)

important lyrics: “Whenever you're winning I'll give you strength, boy And I'll share your name, girl 'Cause I'll always be on your, I'll always be on your team Yeah, I'll always be on your team”

19. i melt with you // modern english

this song is sponsored by @florchis, who not only was the person that first told me about this song but also named her entire fsk collection after one of the lyrics. she has very good taste. first off i love how high-energy and happy this song is. declaring your love for someone is a VERY fun thing to do in the best of circumstances! and i just love the idea of them taking time for each other in the middle of all of their shield business. i love them so much, y’all.

important lyrics: “Moving forward using all my breath Making love to you was never second best I saw the world crashing all around your face (let me hear you) Never really knowing it was always mesh and lace (c'mon)”

“I'll stop the world and melt with you You've seen the difference And it's getting better all the time There's nothing you and I won't do”

20. cornelia street // taylor swift

YES, i know this is the FOURTH tswift song on this list. she’s really good at songwriting, okay? also... y’all.. the VULNERABILITY. the LONGING. the idea of having to deal with the very real fear of loss fits VERY well for a ship where everyone involved is in mortal danger three times a week. also, the idea of never being able to separate the memories of a place from the people? that’s peak fsk. i know i keep saying this but they’re all HUGELY INFLUENTIAL on each other and it’s a BIG DEAL!! they’re never going to get over this relationship, this love, and I’m Never Going To Get Over Them.

important lyrics: “And I hope I never lose you, hope it never ends I'd never walk Cornelia Street again That's the kind of heartbreak time could never mend I'd never walk Cornelia Street again”

21. coroner’s report // molly ofgeography (aka @ofgeography)

first off, everyone should listen to this ENTIRE ALBUM because it’s VERY GOOD. secondly, i know this song is really sad but imagine this as steeling yourself for the series finale. canonverse fsk hurts SO MUCH, y’all, and i love them so much. the metaphor in this song is *chef’s kiss* and the guilt of losing love is.... yeah. i’m sad. please be sad with me.

important lyrics: “How do you bury love, and what gets carved into the stone? If I had waited by the window would love be safe and back at home?”

“We held hands in the procession, black and veiled and strange You said, ‘love was good when love was here,’ it didn't ease the ache“

22. two // sleeping at last

okay i definitely think that part of this is me being an extreme 2 and therefore considering this song the Peak of Romance. which is probably a little unhealthy but leave me alone. i don’t know enough about enneagram types to diagnose any of the ot3, but definitely this song resembles all of them to some extent, especially daisy. (i am in pain.) this song, to me, feels like daisy pining for fs in canonverse. (i am in PAIN.) she would ABSOLUTELY give parts of herself up for them and count on the fact that they wouldn’t notice. god, this hurts so much. i love this song so much. if it helps, i think in a happier universe they all also sacrifice parts of themselves for the others? which hurts too but in a good way.

important lyrics: “Tell me, is something wrong? If something's wrong, you can count on me You know I'll take my heart clean apart if it helps yours beat”

“I just want to build you up, build you up 'Til you're good as new And maybe one day I will get around to fixing myself too“

23. fair // the amazing devil

this song is CRIMINALLY unknown. GO LISTEN TO IT RIGHT NOW AND THEN MEET ME BACK HERE. this song just screams fsk at me. the humor, the depths of love, the good-natured resentment, the depths of love... god. it’s so good. i definitely think the strength of their emotions for each other overwhelm them sometimes. i think they find comfort with each other, i think they tease each other, i think they’re disgustingly in love all the time. god.

important lyrics: “She promises to fight them all when it all becomes too much And he, he curses at the world for Leaving him behind and he's falling out of touch And she is stronger than he's ever been he knows And she brushes her hand through His hair, he's got so much fucking hair”

“And he holds her close just to keep the world at bay And when they're sure no-one can hear them She'll turn to him to say, she'll turn to him and say It's not fair, It's not fair how much I love you“

(yes i DID copy more than i’ve been copying for the rest, because the songwriting in this song and album are PHENOMENAL and YES i will harass y’all until you listen to it because LOOK AT HOW GOOD IT IS.)

24. arms unfolding // dodie

i know, i know, this is a really short song. but it’s really pretty and i think it fits daisy, like, extremely well. think about daisy during early s4, specifically. she loves them enough to break down her walls. that’s what this song is about. and that’s what i’m gonna go cry over now. god this post is so long what the heck.

important lyrics: “Hope I'm not tired of rebuilding 'Cause this might take a little more I think I'd like to try Look at you And feel the way I did before”

“You know I could live without or with you But I might like having you about“

25. making love out of nothing at all // air supply

okay, so i admit it, i’m actually a HUGE fan of really cheesy 80s music. but i really love this song for them? especially jemma. i think it fits jemma really well. first off, it’s that good old vulnerability with admitting that she doesn’t know everything! and it’s admitting that she specifically doesn’t know what she’s doing with this relationship! and admitting how much she loves both of them even though she might not have wanted to! and i think she’s just... so amazed, so so amazed at the way that fitz and daisy are able to forgive and be loving even when they’re in the worst situations? which is definitely a big message of this song. (oh jemma, i love you and your violent tenancies. i see al’s valid criticisms and i am Loving You Anyway.)

important lyrics: “I know all the rules and then I know how to break 'em And I always know the name of the game But I don't know how to leave you And I'll never let you fall”

“And I don't know how you do it Making love out of nothing at all”

jesus CHRIST this got long. i actually also had a bunch more songs that i didn’t have a LOT to say about but i thought they fit anyways, so uh, honorable mentions:

can’t help falling in love // elvis presley (”wise men say only fools rush in / but i can’t help falling in love with you”)

the longest time // billy joel (they’ve influenced each other)

after all // peter cetera & cher (they’re never going to be able to forget the influence they have on each other)

leave a tender moment alone // billy joel (daisy pov for skimmons. that is all)

she // dodie (i am Soft and Gay and skimmons is also Soft and Gay)

bremen // pigpen theatre co. (honestly idk what to say here, it’s just The Vibe)

say something // a great big world (similar vibe to ordinary people)

saturn // sleeping at last (Science and also Influence On Each Other)

celeste // ezra vine (thanks to al for this one too, i REALLY want to write a fic about them and this song at some point)

 you’re the inspiration // chicago (i just love the sound of this song. also i think all of them - but jemma especially - are inspired by the others to be better)

[pigtailedgirl]

Tony Stark Ends My MCU in Endgame

Just sharing some stuff I did on dreamwidth with a few updates. I’m new to tumblr, give me patience.

Here is why I'm never watching another MCU film or giving money to them or Marvel if I can help it. Tony Fucking Stark. The capitulation to and adoration of both RDJ and that character shows me that their brand of heroism is nothing I want to do with. Endgame validated his worldview and I can't reconcile. Look. I'm no big fan of Tony or Iron Man. Been tolerating since Avengers. Been outright thinking he deserved a tell off and comeuppance since Civil War. Did not believe he'd get it, but thought, well, thought at the least he'd still be not outright unchallenged or proven right. Basically, I was wrong in that I thought the films were conscious of his flaws they were highlighting, and that even if they could never be confirmed or explored while RDJ was onboard, because I think RDJ would never consent to looking bad because he's a narcissist and he has star power, they were there, canon, and recognized with subtlety. And I had other models of heroes in Steve and Thor to say Tony is not the only version of hero to emulate. Iron Man as a character through his movies and the Avengers film is a hero born of guilt and mired in a complex selfishness. I thought this always but especially with repeat viewings. He's fascinating because he does help people, and commit good acts, but it is born not from a desire to care for others. It's often a side-affect of his overwhelming ego. That is the kind of hero Tony is. A selfishly, not selflessly motivated one.

I eventually got very tired of Tony not seeing others around him that were hurt instead of helped by his brand of heroism. A replacement for his brand of weapons at Stark Industries or his rock-star persona. Or seeing others at all. It's something that regardless of results, I think society needs to re-examine the strength of. The ego. The self. An American world doesn't need more internal selfishness to admire. It should wear Tony down in a very different way than the MCU reflects. It should have a foil and a cost. Endgame has erased and ignored this, validated and lionized Tony as a hero role-model, to an awful degree. To start Tony is made weak in the opening and given his monologue goodbye to Pepper to garner sympathy. For him. Not for Pepper. Not for Nebula do they have kindly interaction together; we are squarely with and in Tony POV. It's re-occurring, this sainted POV of Tony in this film. You'll notice it especially in his funeral, when he’s already dead, as on-lookers who have no connection or tenuous relation to him gather and mourn because to the film he's the icon of the MCU and the hero.

This POV is not extended to others, say Natasha’s loss. The film has a central character it is focusing and idenitfying with, and it’s Tony Stark.

The main thrust of argument in the film is also weighted in Tony's favor. Tony gets off the ship on Earth. To be hugged and comforted by his foil Steve. He is fragile and we linger on his emaciated frame in his argument with Steve and the others. We linger on him in bed after, surrounded by caring loved ones. Held back by Rhodey. Our sympathy is supposed to be centered squarely on him. Yet his argument itself is devoid of logic or reason or compassion for others that are not himself. 1) Ultron was evil and the Iron Legion was causing civil unrest even before and is gone through no others decision. Tony never rebuilt it. 2) The reason the Avengers were not working together in Civil War and after was entirely because of Tony. It's Tony who got the olive branch of a phone Steve sent and hasn't used it. Indeed Steve came as soon as Bruce and Rhodey phoned. It's Tony who went to space and left the others behind. It's Tony who lost trust and therefore tracking of Vision causing him to go off-grid. It's Tony who agreed with the accords, has since broken the accords, and has since not done anything to demolish them. Accords which Ross wanted to use to stay hands in Infinity War as well. 3)Tony is in a room playing photos of the dusted, came with a woman who's sister is murdered, and can only focus on his hurt about the Snap. On losing Peter, because of what it means to him. Of the others not being with him to comfort him in his time of battle and loss. His priority is his pain alone. It's supremely selfish. It's given no rebuttal because the narrative agrees his pain is what matters. So characters feel sad for him instead of anger or their own hurt. If they don’t agree with him, no time is devoted to seeing that.This is where you expect an argument. A reflection by everyone. A hash-out on the priority of one's personal pain versus the whole universe's losses. None ever comes. The film avoids another interesting conflict on selfishness vs selflessness to approve of onlyTony when in the five year gap it celebrates in Tony's family, at the expense of everyone else refusing to move on. Only Tony gets happiness in time through his not thinking about others. Now Tony does regret Peter. So Tony decides to help reverse the Snap. But he is given zero push back on the decision to do so entirely for his benefit, that it is his alleviation of feeling Peter's loss, and not for the world's losses, or Peter's loss independant of Tony. Again it’s a selfish and self-motivatied choice. 

That Tony refuses to give up his 5 year family, which will come at the expense of 5 years lost to the returned, of the collateral we saw take place in Infinity War, at the deaths and changes since is not examined because the narrative doesn’t care to disagree with Tony. I'm not saying erasing Tony's family is right, heroic, or a choice he or the film should advocate for. But there is zero thought or discussion to the idea that Tony's family or pain is not all there is to consider in this plan. Where is Thor, saying how dare you value your happiness over all the dead of Asgard? Where's Natasha mad at her effort to keep everyone together, including world crisis prevention? Where is Carol with the universe as a whole perspective? Where is Banner saying help me at least not kill ourselves trying? Where is Clint not wanting to be a killer when his family comes back? Where is any nuance that just because Tony wants this in this way, it's not the only way everyone would feel. This film never puts anything above Tony's feelings. This extends to his heroic sacrifice at the end. The final two ways the film absolutely prides Tony's view versus anything else are his death and mourning. Tony is treated as the ultimate hero. Out of 14 million scenarios, it takes him alone to win. Him using the stones barehanded when all others couldn't. Him saving the world. His ultimate sacrifice and entirely his choice. All about him. It's not selfless that way. It's killing yourself yes, it’s saving others, but you are the ultimate universe saver. The ultimate avenger. You defeat the bad guy. Not bring people back in an act of return, but in an act of rightfulness you fix what you've been complaining others wouldn't let you and defeat evil all by yourself. Your entire motivation is rewarded, because you protect the universe by killing all your bad guy enemies. Rooted in how you feel and what you want. His final line "And I am Iron Man" a rebuke to anyone who doubts the greatness of him. Tony was right and perfect everyone. Listen up.  But there is no self-sacrifice here, because it's not about him losing. Oh, fans will mourn him. Lament Tony's lost family and happiness. Rally against his pain in dying. But Tony doesn't. There is no reflection in the film from him on the potential cost or the reality in the moment. No care is extended to the daughter's feelings or Pepper's or his friends. Nothing is about the impact or loss he'd feel of leaving them. Instead he's, like always, the focus. The film is entirely about losing him and how it's the worst for you and the world. That is what the film wants you to be sad about in these moments. Every character props him. Steve's tears. Peter's "Mr. Stark we won", and Pepper's "You can rest now." It's all about making Tony look good. This continues with the funeral. Morgan talking to Happy being about a callback to cheeseburgers Tony loved. Tony Stark 's first reactor is “Proof Tony Stark Has A Heart” floating away, wreathed in flowers. It's all tribute to the man and only about him. That's not selfless, it's self-aggrandizing. The character has gained no humility or grace. Just more fame. I'm not interested in that. In fact I'm angry. The overarching message of his rightness also destroys his foil, Steve. Who stands behind Pepper at the funeral? Steve. Who stands with Tony throughout the film? Steve. As his character's end, Steve adopts Tony's mindset of not being a selfless hero and chooses to do as Tony did and think only of what Steve currently wants. Peggy. In the past. At others expense. Steve chooses to be a selfish hero. As does Thor going off the rails in film and off with the guardians and abandoning his people. Marvel thinks that's the right way. A summation of all their films and a thing to look back on and celebrate as Tony hologram's monologue tells us. All heroes are reduced to the Tony Stark role model. It tells me they never thought Tony's world-view was a problem. And I disagree. Or they wanted to honor him so they warped everything else to work it. If they do it once, twice, always...well, what next? So I'm done.

[withinevening]

The Dynamics of Friendship + Romance or Why Clint and Natasha are freakin’ important.

Personally speaking, Clint Barton and Natasha Romanoff share not only one of the most important relationships in the MCU but in media in general. Why? There are TONS of characters with dramatic, close, friendships.  Friendship? SHIP! FRIENDSHIP! SHIP! Well hellllooo fandom.

That’s what’s so quirky about these two. While I’ve never been truly active in any ‘ship war’, even in its ‘glory days’ I never really saw a ship /war/ when it came to these characters. I’d like to say that when The Avengers first came out Clint/Natasha had its fair share of supporters, of which I was one, but you had your side ships, and that list grew. (Clint/Coulson and Nat/Bruce were the two I saw most frequently as alternatives.) The real debate to this day is so ‘are they friends or lovers’ line of thinking. The shipper’s position is quite obvious. Those on the friends’ side lean more towards the argument that we’re in dire need of more buddies, less beddies. (Okay, I tried people.)

Now, yes, I ship the heck out of them. But you won’t hear me arguing about that point. We DO need less sexualized relationships. It’s valid and I can see their dynamic being read that way. You won’t hear me arguing about this. But here’s where it gets tricky for me and where this post gets a little personal in order to explain. There will also be endgame spoilers and unpopular headcanons.

As someone who identifies as asexual panromantic, I have a firm sense of love not being connected to sex. They can exist together or separately. Sex and intimacy are also different. You might ask then, well, what makes the difference between a strong friendship and a romance. To me? Well, not a lot. The strongest of friendships have a level of dedication and fondness, even physical closeness. But to be ‘in love’ is something different. Yeah, you’d do a heck of a lot for your best friend. You might give then a kidney or a huge loan. A select few of us might even put yourself in harm’s way. But have you ever felt devastated at the idea that they might want to spend their lives with someone else? Have you ever craved that friend’s attention on a greater level than: I’d really like to tell or experience this with them? See a bit of a difference?

Which is why you can make ‘that scene’ in Endgame work. The problem is ‘that which you love’ beyond all else. These two can fill that spot for each other interchangeably. These two have been through hell as individuals and as a team. They are the sole keepers of every secret. They have a bond that extends beyond friendship. They are quite literally willing to die for one another when it comes down to facing the loss as THE VERY factor, not an external enemy. They’ve both encouraged one another to do things that are best for them even if it’s uncomfortable. That level of commitment, intimacy, and desire is nothing BUT romantic.

This doesn’t mean you have to ignore canon, or can’t enjoy these two as friends. As before, romance does not equate sex. But there is no question that Natasha is a part of Clint’s family in canon. Yes we know how close her and Clint are, but Laura has also seen to be quite perceptive of Natasha. They even named a child after her. She seemed right at home in their home.  We love our family. And no, of course, we don’t love our family romantically. But a form of love IS there if you prescribe to them being friends. ‘Cause lets face it. A secret agent’s life is not typical. As such your dynamics with others are not going to be standard. As far as Bruce goes, Natasha is starting to trust herself. She’s starting to open up. Clint has his family, but here is someone who’s broken in a similar way as she is. She sees this as an opportunity to try to connect with someone. She wants to reach out, but she hasn’t met many people who could even BEGIN to understand her special kind of special. So sure she’s going to be curious. But it’s still a gamble. It has the potential to be something instead of just a fun little distraction. That’s scary and they’re both cautious. But he might be able to get her and maybe it could work. Doesn’t mean she loses the other connections she has, but you never saw her falling madly in love/lust either. Canon Bruce/Nat was more about potential.

So yes, friend-shippers are perfectly valid. But you know what? Shippers are too—without having to ignore canon. It’s important to remember that these two have their own trauma. Natasha has always seemed a bit self-sacrificing. She wants to make up for her past and has had a LOT of trouble opening up. Her walls are always up. Clint’s been pretty through the wringer himself. I see them at a crossroad. They realize how important they are to one another, but Natasha realizes that the best thing for Clint is for him to have a piece of ‘normal’ that she never can/never feels worthy of. So enter his family. I feel like there’s an understanding. Clint’s family will always come first. But he isn’t who he is without Natasha. She is a part of him and vice versa. Headcanon, Laura isn’t stupid. She knows this, sees this, and pretty much has the attitude of: You come home, you stay honest to me and don’t lie about things that aren’t classified, and we’re okay. Because this life I’ve signed up for isn’t normal. I respect the person this other person helps you to be and they respect the boundaries I set. And when she visits she gets laundry duty.

So where does this leave us beyond being a “let’s all get along!” post. At the core this is one of the strongest representations of a debate in which each viewpoint isn’t mutually exclusive. They are completely compliant with one another. As someone who usually prefers her ships not be canon as so few people can write romance reliably over an extended period of time, this is so rare. Because these writers have manage to depict a truly deep relationship in BOTH ways without HAVING to declare flat out one way or another or to define a connection by sex. Natasha and Clint are textual proof in media of a relationship that doesn’t neatly fit into a box. It’s a sign of character complexity.

And that’s what our media needs. We cry about ‘diversity’ when we mean race, gender, or sexuality. We’re slowly getting those things. But instead of having token representation and stereotypes, can we start considering the extent of which we depict variety and individualism? Yes there are other characters that emphasize this point better than these two. But as time went on, this is the reason I realized they will always be embedded in my fannish heart.

[bigskydreaming]

Comic book Zatanna is VERY different from YJ Zatanna. To such a degree that rather than look at YJ Zatanna as an adaptation of her, I pretty much just think of them as entirely different characters. Like YJ Zatanna is named after her older cousin or something, who’s too busy dealing with mystical threats to ever show up onscreen. Its pretty significant what a difference changing a character’s age and what generation they’re a part of can make.

(Its also why I don’t ship Dick/Zatanna in YJ. My go-to Zatanna will always be the comics one, who’s like....dated his DAD. Its like how a couple of adaptations have tried to pair Bruce/Babs as a nod to like waaaaaaaaaaaaaay early versions of Batgirl, when like...no, Babs has dated Dick, his son, in way too many comics and cartoons what are you even doing, I DISREGARD YOU, FALSE CANON. Anyway.)

So, in the comics, Zatanna is the same age as Bruce, or near enough. And she and Bruce have a long history together, (including at times a romantic one) because in some continuities, before he was Batman, when he was still traveling the world and learning from every teacher he could, he frequently visited circuses and carnivals and the like. They were where he learned escape artist tricks, picked up things from magicians’ acts like Zatanna’s (such as sleight of hand and misdirection, etc), and acrobatics. Its literally been given as a reason he was at Haly’s Circus the night Dick’s parents died - he was scoping out their act to see if there were any tricks he could learn from or incorporate into his own repertoire.

What I’m getting at is Bruce knew Zatanna even before he was Batman for the exact same reason he met Dick. He inserted himself into the circles both of them traveled in as members of performer families with a generations long history with circuses and Vegas and carnivals and the like.

Which means....take Bruce out of the equation, and there’s still every chance that Dick and Zatanna’s paths could have crossed while they were both still performers. And that their families could have known each other.

So! AU where Zatanna was in Gotham visiting friends at Haly’s the night the Graysons died. And rather than watch Dick get shoved into an uncaring system when they took him away from the circus and refused to let him stay with them, the Mistress of Magic spirited Dick away and took custody of him herself. 

Leading to Dick being raised by Zatanna instead of Bruce, continuing to work as a performer alongside her but now her magician’s assistant instead of an acrobat - though he still kept up with his acrobatics thanks to Zee’s acrobat friends letting him train on their trapeze whenever he had the itch to fly again. Dick grows up learning escape artist tricks and all the misdirection and sleight of hand Bruce learned from magicians, but straight from the source this time rather than via Bruce.

And eventually, Dick - child prodigy that he is - discovers that Zatanna’s act is the equivalent of hiding in plain sight, the perfect misdirection to cover up that she is a real magician, a homo sapiens magi, born naturally gifted in the mystic arts and one of the most powerful sorceresses in the world. Dick might not ever have her natural aptitude for HER type of magic, but there are many kinds of magic in the world, and thanks to her work (both professional and as a reserve member of the Justice League and occasional superheroine herself). Zatanna knows all the best and most talented magicians and sorcerers in the world. And many of those, Dick CAN learn from.

All of which leads to him eventually sneaking out as a vigilante on his own, combining his acrobatics with things like knife throwing and flashy misdirection that disguises his actual conjurings and spellwork when in the midst of battle. His specialties are illusion magics, spells of disguise and manipulation of shadows, vanishing into smoke and conjuring temporary doubles out of mirrors, etc. Just enough of what he does isn’t real that villains never see it coming when he conjures a real fireball right after they’d identified enough of the previous ones as harmless illusions and thought it was safe to stop dodging. Instead of it being just about raw power, he builds upon his ability to craft and sell an act. 

Eventually he forms the Teen Titans with other sidekicks like Wonder Girl, Speedy, Kid Flash and Aqualad...as well as Barbara Gordon aka Batgirl, protégé of the Batman. Even his best friends couldn’t say how much he’s actually capable of - though with them, its not because he doesn’t trust them though, merely because he’s a troll. He always dismisses any talk of him being a sorcerer or calling what he does magic. Instead he just grins and winks and says he knows a few tricks, is all. What he considers ‘a few’ or how far he stretches the definition of ‘a trick’, well, that’s anyone’s guess.  His entire hero career and reputation spins out of the fact that he COULD be one of the more powerful sorcerers to walk the earth....or he could simply be a great actor who makes the most out of a relative handful of lesser spells within his capabilities. Even his own teachers can’t say for sure. Every time someone thinks they’ve got his range figured out, he mischievously pulls out a new spell his previous shows of power have never hinted he’d be capable of, just to keep people guessing. 

And maybe Zatanna and Dick are back performing in Gotham one winter, and Dick’s off visiting Batgirl while they’re in town, and Zatanna takes a stroll through town and passes through Crime Alley. No particular reason, its just an expedient route and she hardly is someone to take its reputation as a reason she of all people should be concerned.

Which is when a homeless street kid named Jason Todd tries to pick her pocket. Naturally, it doesn’t exactly work out for him, given who she is, but Zatanna Zatara is one to appreciate the irony of someone trying to pick HER pocket...as well as impressed at how close he comes to actually managing it. She takes him to a diner to feed him, coaxes enough of his story from him to figure out he has no one to look out for him and will never trust Gotham’s foster system (not that she’d blame him, given what she saw of it when she first took custody of Dick and had doubts about whether she was doing the right thing for him)...and figuring since it worked out well for her the first time she went down this road, offers Jason a fresh start elsewhere with her and Dick.

It isn’t long before Jason’s intellect and skilled hands prove equally effective at sleight of hand and magician’s tricks, as well as an eager student for every bit of actual magic his new big brother shares, along with what he learns from the teachers Zee and Dick both introduce him to. Over time, he gravitates towards different tutors specialties than Dick though. Illusions and mindgames, smoke and mirrors...that fits Dick’s natural showmanship and performer’s nature, but its not Jason’s style. Oh, he can bluff the hell out of anyone, never play poker with him, and his natural bravado easily translates into working a crowd and playing a stage alongside Zee and Dick when working. Its just not his preference is all. 

No, he goes more for practical magic, straightforward approaches to achieving his intended results. Cut out the bullshit. Spells of primal force or elemental magicks, charms and runes of strength, healing and protection to augment his capabilities when he wades into a fight fists first and just starts brawling. He’s not afraid to summon a demon or two and make a bargain to achieve his ends - he’s even got the names of a couple inked into his skin as tattoos, a summoning shortcut that lets him call on his personal faves in a moment of desperation. Even demons have trouble circumventing a summoning or breaking free of its parameters when those things are etched permanently onto his body. 

Dick does tend to have a few elemental spirits always nearby and easily summoned without much notice or prep time, but Dick being Dick, in his case its just because he made friends with them. There’s a couple of wind sprites always hanging around on the off-chance he gets into a fight and might need their help. They find such instances to be extremely fun and exciting, and also they’ve adopted the fun little bird human who flies as a kindred spirit.

In contrast, Jason comes home one day and Zatanna catches him trying to change the coverings on a new tattoo without her noticing. She's not mad because he's fifteen and not supposed to be getting tattoos. She's not exactly thrilled about that either, but no, of greater concern to her is the fact that the tattoo is a name written in a long dead alphabet. A name she recognizes as that of a primordial demon she was extremely clear about being one of those forces beyond her teenage son's ken, and which he most certainly was not supposed to be messing around with.

Jason's expression tightens mulishly and Zatanna longs for the days when that was just purple prose she read in books sometimes while wondering vaguely how that even worked and what that actually looked like.

"Dick said I had to," her younger son says. He folds his arms across his chest defiantly. Zatanna closes her eyes and counts to five.

"I did not!" her older son yells right on schedule. The air shimmers like heat waves rising off pavement on a hot summer day and Dick drops the cloaking spell he's been using to eavesdrop. She's not sure why he even bothered with the thing; they both knew he was there the whole time. Not because his spell hadn't been text book perfect and beyond even her ability to pierce mystically, but because Dick tended to forget all the magic in the world can't keep predictable behavior from being predicted.

"You literally said Jason, you gotta do the thing," Jason insists, doubling down. Dick's arms flail like an anthropomorphic windmill tripping on shrooms.

"No, I literally said Jason, don't do the thing," Dick shrieks, cartoonishly outraged. Zatanna fights back a small smile despite the situation. She's seen her eldest smoothly engage a minor deity in a verbal chess match as the fate of his fellow Teen Titans hung in the balance, all without once breaking a sweat. One blatant lie delivered straight to his face by his younger brother though, and he went zero to sixty in two point five seconds, skipping straight past the realization he was being played. Zee still had every intention of grounding her youngest for the next decade for being so dumb as to ink himself with a mystical tether to a demon that once ate an entire civilization - yes, ate - but that didn't mean she couldn't also be impressed at Jason's attempt at finessing himself out of this situation. He'd jumped straight to the only thing that had even had a prayer of distracting Zee from his teenage idiocy - Dick at Defcon Five. Now if only she could get him to apply that same level of forethought to things like oh, the possible longterm consequences of giving a supernatural Being of Mass Destruction a direct dial up connection to him....

Dick turns desperate eyes on her. "Seriously Mom, I swear. I said the actual words 'Jason NO.'"

"See?" Jason flings his arm at his brother in triumphant vindication. "Have you met me? Everyone knows that's code for 'Jason YES.'"

"Oh my god, I will curse you to rot the pages of every first edition you touch," Dick hisses dramatically. Jason pales briefly, but rallies.

"And really, how is this any different from when you slept with Batgirl and I said that was a really bad idea and its totally gonna end up biting you in the ass, and then you said that I shouldn't have told you to do it then?"

"That's completely different," Dick howls, reverting back to Windmill, Drunk In A Windstorm. "You said 'Don't be mad, but that new scrying spell I was trying accidentally locked on to Batgirl instead of Batman and I saw her walking home from school out of costume just for a second before I shut off the spell but spoiler alert, she doesn't wear a wig while in costume, she really is a redhead even with her cowl off, which means now you gotta sleep with her, like, we all know its gonna happen anyway now. PS its Barbara Gordon, that's the punchline, you're already obsessed with her, oh crap now you're gonna be insufferable huh.' Which by the way, I so am not. Jerk."

"Yes," Jason says slowly and with exaggerated patience. Zatanna's migraine builds and builds. "And then I said, 'Dick, no, stop, I was making a joke, you don't actually have to...' and you said 'No, but I gotta'. Your shirt was practically already off by the time I finished saying 'redhead.'"

"Well, duh! Of course it was! Have you met me?" Dick volleys back in what Zee really hopes is her eldest making a deliberate callback to her youngest's earlier crack, and not some bizarre teenage superstition that has him actually thinking nope nope those thoughts are in the Bad Place, Zatanna, its absolutely believable that Dick is actually still twelve and the boys are just using embellishing language to feel grown up. C'mon, if you try hard enough you can milk a good thirty more seconds of denial about your son's sex life, you're literally magic, you can do this.

The ludicrousness of it all is so effortlessly identical to his brother's idiocy just moments prior, Zatanna has a brief, uncharitable thought that the Graysons had a second child they gave up for adoption and nobody ever told either of the boys. She opens her mouth to put a stop to the nonsense, but what comes out:

"You slept with Bruce's protégé?"

Dick pauses mid-rant and fidgets uneasily. His eyes dart around the room as if expecting the Batman to appear, summoned by the power of his name. "Umm. Only a couple times?" he says slash asks, warily.

"On several different occasions," Jason adds gleefully. Zatanna rubs her temples and rounds on him before Dick can return fire.

"And you tried to scry Batman?"

"Umm," Jason stutters. Stops. Aims an accusing finger at his brother again. "Dick dared me to!"

"That's it! Curse coming right up," Dick snaps, fingers crooking into arcane gestures.

"Enough! Both of you!" Zatanna feels slightly guilty when both boys fall silent and hunch over, metaphorical tails between their legs. Even when they were being obnoxious, it was still weirdly charming in a way - eww, who even was she right now? Maternity was a mistake. Still, she couldn't find it in herself to bring down the full force of her ire when all they were doing really was being....ridiculous boys being ridiculous brothers. She sighs and contemplates telling them just to go to bed, they'd discuss it in the morning after she'd had time to cool off and think about it....decides god no, that risks all of this happening all over again. Splits the difference and calls it a night.

"Jason, you're grounded for a month for whatever you did to even get someone to give you a tattoo while under eighteen without parental approval. And you're grounded from any spells outside of lesson plans and homework assigned by one of your tutors until you can tell me in detail why I'm concerned your choice of tattoo was an absolutely terrible idea, and you can present me with no less than three different wards or counterspells that prepare for the possibility of that absolutely terrible idea becoming an absolutely terrible catastrophe. Not a word," she finishes sharply with a pointed finger, when he starts to protest. He sulkily subsides again.

"Dick, one word answers only, no explanations, excuses or qualifiers. You made sure Barbara knew exactly who you were and that you knew exactly who she was before you both....made it extremely awkward for me to look Bruce in the eye at the next Justice League meeting?"

"Yes," Dick says wincing.

"You used protection....each time on each different occasion?"

"Yes," her eldest says, examining the floor as if weighing the likelihood of it opening up and swallowing him whole.

"You're not being every gross stereotype of teenage boys as normalized by Hollywood, using or objectifying girls in the name of toxic masculinity - you actually have feelings for this girl?"

"Yes," he says firmly, meeting her eyes again. Zatanna nods, letting that linger as she absorbs both his sincerity and the passage of time. Where did the last decade and that little eight year old with the baby fat and chipmunk cheeks go? But then, this is good too, she decides, and she nods, satisfied. Course, a little embarrassment is good for the soul, she figures.

"You understand that the world is full of other smart, beautiful redheads you could have chosen to pursue with far less complications?"

"Be right back, have to go die now," Dick announces loudly, and Zatanna chuckles and takes pity on him. Jason's paler Irish skin goes red at the drop of a hat, but it takes a much higher level of mortal humiliation for Dick's darker skin to betray any kind of blush.

"Nothing to get all red in the face about, sweetheart," she says because look, her kids had to get it from somewhere. Jason cackles, doubling over with mirth and Zatanna makes her exit while her youngest is too busy being amused at his brother's expense to remember he's ticked about being grounded.

She lingers on the other side of the wall, drinking in the sound of Jason's laughter and Dick's sulking, long enough that she's still there to overhear when Dick silences his brother's entertainment:

"Saved your ass, you manipulative little shit. Don't think I didn't know what you were doing there. You owe me for playing along."

"Yeah, yeah, all hail Benevolent Big Brother Dick," Jason grumbles, but there's gratitude beneath the grumbling. Zatanna's eyes narrow as she reflects on how much lighter a sentence Jason ended up with, compared to what her first instincts had intended. Well, crap. Dick hadn't been the one oblivious to all the layers of that little episode at all, had he? That was annoyingly humbling. Still, Zatanna shakes her head at herself and goes to bed with a smile. She respects the art of the con too much to be upset her children learned more from her teachings than she'd realized.

Well played, boys.

The brothers' respective preferences in summonings aren't the only places they differ. Where Dick has a half a dozen spells of invisibility or intangibility on stand by in case he needs to sneak into a heavily fortified place, Jason stays stocked up with an equivalent number of spells capable of just blowing the front door off its hinges.Of course, Tim Drake being Tim Drake, his inclusion into their little family happens exactly as you’d expect.

He literally follows them home one day.

His neglectful absentee parents are archaeologists, after all. Spending more of their time away at dig sites than at home with him. When they are home though, they make a show of caring, take him out to the circus and to shows, parading him in public so everyone can see what a nice family they all are and how much they dote on their only child. So just like in canon, Tim’s there at the circus too, the night the Graysons are murdered. And in the years to follow, he’s at a number of the Zataras’ magic shows, and easily puts together that Dick and Jason are the two masked mystical teen superheroes that spend as much time doing flips and punching and kicking villains as they do weaving actual spells. 

And his parents, being the kind of archaeologists who grew up as rich bored white Gotham elites who picked archaeology as their field of study because its not like they actually needed to work and they’d watched Indiana Jones so often, they were like, yes, excellent, I will model my life adventures and career path after this movie and its depiction of archaeology....

Like, so clearly, they’re the dumbass kind of archaeologists who have no actual respect for the artifacts they dig up and just like how they look in their home or behind glass museum cases with plaques about who donated them.

Tim however, is not dumb, way better than his parents, and has a lot of free time and a hobby of researching EVERYTHING. So eventually he discovers the real origins of a lot of artifacts his parents have around the house, and determines that a) they really shouldn’t be here, and b) some of these have spiritual and even mystical reputations and power and are possibly very dangerous in the wrong hands or even just from being removed from their resting places or lands/cultures of origin, so they REALLY shouldn’t be here.

So the next time the Zataras’ magic show comes to Gotham, he (carefully) stuffs his backpack full of as many as he can carry, and sneaks out to go watch the show. And then he follows them back to where they’re staying, introduces himself and says he knows who they are and could they please help him return all these artifacts to where they belong and also hurry because some of them might blow up the world if they’re gone too much longer and that’s not WHY he wants to return them, like they should just because its the right thing to do, but he thought he should mention it because it seems like its an important factor. He’d do it himself, but he’s not allowed to go on a plane by himself, but he did write apology notes to go with each artifact for taking them without asking, and also could he have their autographs?

Dick blinks cartoonishly large eyes, sweeps the ten year old off his feet into a giant hug and announces, “We’re keeping him.”

Zatanna tries to do this in an orderly fashion, of course. “Tim, where are your parents? Do they know you’re here?”

Dick sniffs. “Irrelevant. We’re keeping him. Look how adorable he is, is there really anyone who could possibly appreciate his adorableness more than us? No. Ergo. We’re keeping him.”

Jason rolls his eyes. “He’s not a pet, asshole. And adorableness isn’t a word, stop making up words, I will punch you I swear. But also yeah, we’re keeping him.”

Tim’s heart is having a full on meltdown at the thought that two of his heroes want him to stay, but he’s a Drake and Drakes are very big on Proper and protocols and decorum, and he’s pretty sure this isn’t how things work. “I’m not actually supposed to be out by myself, so I definitely should be home before nine cuz that’s my bedtime...”

Dick takes him into his bedroom, drops him on his bed and says: “There you go. You’re in bed and its not even eight o’clock yet. Problem solved.”

“...I think it only counts if I’m in bed in my bed?”

Dick snaps his fingers and the headboard is mystically inscribed with “Tim” in a flourish of colorful sparks. “See? Its your bed now, it has your name on it and everything. This can be your new room and I’ll bunk with Jay. We can’t have you share a room with him, he snores and you’re too adorable to inflict that on. Growing boys need at least eight hours of RESTFUL sleep.”

Tim chews his lip. He’s not entirely sure the older boy’s logic is sound, but when laid out in that fashion, it doesn’t sound completely unreasonable, right? He makes one last token attempt to get up. Jason sits on him. Gently, but still.

“Oh no, we’re holding him against his will. We’ve officially kidnapped him at this point,” Jason says cheerfully. “Mom, you better go find his parents and tell them their son is missing and being held hostage and won’t be released until they can explain to the police why their son’s kidnappers had to notify them that their son was missing and had wandered all the way through Gotham at night alone.”

Tim protests. “Its not a big deal. I do that all the time!”

Jason and Dick look at him. Look at each other. Look at Zatanna. Arch their eyebrows expectantly.

Zatanna sighs. As ridiculous as her boys are being, this has played out about how she expected it would the second she realized the ten year old was completely on his own and used to it. And let’s face it. They’re only like this because she’s like this. She regrets everything except also she regrets nothing. Not that she’ll tell them that right now. They both look a little too smug in her opinion. Let ‘em sweat for at least a few hours. “I’ll go see what the situation is and figure out what to do next. Stay here and don’t let him eat too much sugar. And if you watch TV, nothing R-rated.”

Dick rolls his eyes. “We know. We’re not gonna scar the kid in like, the few hours you’re gone.”

“You made your brother watch The Babadook when he was eleven.”

“Well that’s different. He was being an ass. Timmy’s being adorable. Completely unrelated situations,” Dick says in the tone of someone who thinks they’re being reasonable. Jason scowls.

“Wow, are you seriously victim blaming me for the nightmares I got from that shit? Way to make fun of my psychological trauma, asshole.”

“Hey, I didn’t MAKE you watch that movie. I TOLD you to go to bed.” Dick idly examines his nails. "You’re the one who said you were too old to have a bed time and you could stay up as late as I could and anything I could watch you could watch too.”

“Oh please. That’s basic reverse psychology. You knew exactly what you were doing.”

“But Jay-jay, I thought you were too smart to ever fall for my tricks the way all my dumbass friends always do! Are you saying that’s not true? Did I actually manipulate my brilliant little brother who has always been much too clever and much too observant to ever be tricked into doing exactly what I wanted him to do? Is that what you’re saying?”

“Hey good news, Tim, neither of us will have to share a room after I murder this assface in his sleep.”

“Don’t worry Timmy, that’s just Jason for I love you.”

Zatanna sighs again and leaves before they can see her grinning. She enables their antics far too much as it is.

Within a week, the Zataras officially have custody of Timothy Jackson Drake. The boys are pretty sure that’s way too quickly for it to have happened legally, and there might have been a spell or two speeding up the process. But they don’t actually care, so. Yeah.

Unlike his brothers, Tim is the only one to fully embrace the titles of magician or sorcerer. His mind is his strength, research is his specialty, and its just inefficient in his opinion to waste time with acrobatics and brawling that comes naturally to them but would need to be acquired skills for him. Instead he just devotes all his learning to the mystic arts, learning from teachers of all kinds of specialties, but also just as much from his research of old texts and his theorizing on the natures of various forms of magic and how they interact. He happily spends hours poring over a dozen different translations and scribbling notes as he goes, distilling complex rituals into new forms that allow for the substitution of more commonplace ingredients and thus greatly widen the scope of his repertoire. He has a talent for doing all the legwork on a dozen different spells of incredible complexity and then leaving them ‘hanging’, with just the last bits incomplete, easily stored in his eidetic memory for him to call upon and trigger in mere moments as he finishes the last bit of any given spell with just a few words, thus doing in the heat of battle what other sorcerers would require hours to replicate.

All three end up gravitating to different superhero teams as they grow older, but all of them have their reputations with the hero community at large. Its generally expected that if you have a problem that needs a magical solution, and you’ve got enough time for preparation and planning - you call Tim. If you need to blow shit up and in a hurry - you call Jason. And if you’re just plain fucked and need a Hail Mary - you call Dick.

You’re usually gonna get all three anyway though, so whatever.

At some point when Tim's around fifteen or so himself, the Court of Owls ends up trying to get their Talons on Dick, because they suck and are terrible and entitled and their only real possible value comes from being a wasted potential metaphor for how often everyone seems to have their own ideas or expectations for what Dick should be doing or saying or feeling at any given time, with most of the things others get pissed about him for in the comics essentially boiling down to Dick doing or saying or feeling things that don't match up to their expectations or presumptions, and that people wouldn't bat an eye about anyone else doing or saying or feeling, its just Dick's supposed to be different, he's doing (x) wrong, ugh he can't even be traumatized properly without him usually ending up apologizing to other people for the fact that he was the one who was just screwed over, weird, its almost like these things are connected. I mean whoops, this is story time, not meta about all the thoughts and feels I, the dastardly fourth wall breaking narrator, have whilst butthurt on behalf of Dick. My badness.

Ahem.

Yes, when last we left our intrepid heroes, rich entitled bastards with a pervy penchant for nursery rhymes and child assassins had set their sights on claiming Dick and turning him into their mindless zombie bird-themed killing machine.

In all fairness, they did lead with the extremely persuasive argument of 'look we totally called dibs before he was even born, so.....step off??'

Then they kidnapped him and attempted to turn him into their mindless zombie bird-themed killing machine.

Compelling argument though that may be, Dick's brothers are not impressed. They are, however, magical, hyper-competent and extremely petty slash vindictive.

All of which is to say, Tim turns the Court into a bunch of actual owls. And then Jason summons a giant murderous hawk-demon from another dimension that eats all the owls.

And then they wait for Dick to wake up from all the drugs the Court pumped him full of in preparation for The Ritual of Zombie Assassin Making. And Tim just has to ruin it, that asshole.

"You know, hawks aren't naturally the enemies of owls," Tim says out of nowhere. Well. Not out of nowhere so much as out of concern, because Tim's natural physiological response to being worried is to get pedantic.

"What," says Jason flatly. Which is his natural physiological response to Tim being. Y'know. Tim.

Tim shrugs, his eyes intent on their older brother, who is still making like Sleeping Beauty and sooooo gonna get razzed by them for that later, once the Worry and Anxiety have all exited stage right. "It just felt like you were going for a theme. Which is fine, I'm just saying, owls don't actually have natural predators. One might occasionally get killed by a hawk, but usually that's more of a territorial dispute and still pretty much an outlier in terms of statistics."

"Why would you even say that to me right now," says Jason flatly. Not asking, because its a rhetorical question and he's currently glaring the answer to it straight at Tim's back, and that answer is ugh you are such an annoying little shit sometimes.

Which is why when Dick groggily starts to come to, he's greeted by a soundtrack of:

"God, I'm so sorry, I'm just the worst for giving you information that you didn't know before, since clearly if you had you wouldn't have gone with a hawk!"

"Well what the fuck should I have gone with, a demonic taxidermist? Like excuse me for being in such a rush to heap vengeance on the pretentious shits who kidnapped our brother, I didn't have time to go to wikipedia and figure out the most appropriate dramatic irony!"

"First off, why would you ever go to wikipedia as a source, we have literally had this exact argument several dozen times - "

"First off, are you seriously giving me bullet points right now. Seriously. Bullet points. Right now. That's a thing that's happening."

"You are such an infant. How are you older than me? I make one little critique and you bite my freaking head off - "

"What's happening?" Dick croaks out into one of the few synchronized pauses for breath. "Where are we?"

"The secret underground lair of an evil society of ornithologists who kidnapped you because your milkshake brings all the weirdos to the yard," Jason says crankily, still glaring at Tim.

Not that fuzzy, barely conscious but always guilt-prone Dick could possibly know that its not actually him Jason's ticked at. Tim face palms at his middle brother because what are bedside manners, clearly.

"A bird-themed cult calling themselves the Court of Owls pre-selected you to be turned into the general of their elite zombie assassin army," Tim recites quickly, predicting Dick's likely request for further information.

"Well that's rude," Dick frowns. He cracks open one eye experimentally, winces when even the dim lighting is enough to give his pounding headache a booster shot. Tries the other eye. Nope. Both eyes are in agreement. Light is the enemy of all that is good right now. Ugh. Definitely rude. He likes light. How dare someone incite this unforgivable betrayal from his BFF, light? "I don't think I care for their recruitment strategy. Although at least they wanted me to be the Boss Zombie Assassin I guess."

"Yes," Tim replies dolefully. "That does appear to be the silver lining here."

Despite their antagonism of thirty seconds ago, Jason snickers. They're nuanced like that.

"Well his usual priorities seem to be in place, so I think its safe to say we got to him before they could do any actual brainwashing," Jason says. "All in favor of blowing this popsicle stand?"

"Wait, there are popsicles?"

"No, there aren't popsicles in the evil cult's secret underground murder lair. Its a figure of speech, dumbass."

"Hey," Dick pouts. He coughs once, weakly, but Jason's eyes narrow in sudden suspicion of Milking It Syndrome. "Be nice to me. I was just kidnapped and almost made an Elite Zombie Assassin Boss and my head hurts and is all fuzzy and you know how I feel about popsicles. You shouldn't joke about them if you don't have any, that's just mean. But uh, should we be rushing? If the bad guys are coming back soon I do vote for the not being here option, like, just in case turning me into the Zombie Apocalypse is still on the evil cult agenda."

He would manage to latch onto the Elite and Boss part of that info dump, wouldn't he, Jason muses. What's the timeline for how long you have to express sympathy for your almost-brainwashed brother before you can yell at him for being insufferable about it? Is half an hour long enough?

"No, its fine," Tim assures their brother. "We uh....were slightly miffed about the whole kidnapping you thing, and so we were.....efficient? I guess you could say? About making sure they wouldn't do it again. I turned them all into owls."

"And then I summoned a hawk demon that ate them. You're welcome," Jason adds, not about to be left out. Even if he's going to have words later about being characterized as 'miffed.' The walking almanac knows more words in more languages than anyone in human history, pretty much, and he goes with miffed. The fuck, Timmy. The actual fuck.

"Aww, you guys, that's so sweet." Dick beams at them. Albeit at somewhat lower than his usual wattage. Then his forehead wrinkles slightly in confusion. "Why a hawk demon? Do owls not like hawks or something?"

Tim smirks at Jason viciously.

"I hate you with the searing intensity of a thousand suns," Jason tells his brat of a younger brother. "Also, gonorrhea."

Zatanna then teleports into the middle of the room with a flash of light and a hurried rush to the side of her lying-on-the-ground, suddenly flailing eldest son.

"Gah, evil light is evil! Curse your betrayal!" Dick wails dramatically, flinging an arm across his face despite the visible effort movement is still taking. Because he really is just that invested in keeping his Melodrama Game on point, willing to play through the pain if necessary. Jason rolls his eyes. If nothing else, he can at least respect his older brother's ability to commit.

"What happened here?" Zatanna wastes no time before asking, even as she begins running her hands lightly over Dick and muttering chants to divine for unseen injuries or influencing substances. Tim catches her up to speed with another dry recitation of the day's events. It doesn't sound any less ridiculous the second time around.

"And you two decided to just rush right into the heart of a criminal organization's secret headquarters with no plan, no way of knowing what you were jumping headfirst into and no back up?" Zatanna snaps out in a biting tone that's 70% Frantic Motherly OMG I Could've Lost All Three Of You I Don't Know What I Would've Done and 30% How Are You Seriously This Dumb, No, I Really Want To Know, You Boys Share Zero Genetics So It Can't Possibly Be Mutually Inherited Dumbness And Yet Here You All Are Being This Dumb, How, Why, I Strenuously Object.

At least, Jason's pretty sure its 70/30.

Eh. Maybe 60/40.

He looks at Tim and they both shrug. "We left a note," Jason offers lamely.

Their mightily miffed mother - and Jason totally gets it now, good call on that one actually, Timbo, Miffed can totally be intimidating, turns out - is not even slightly appeased.

"Yes, I did see your note," Zatanna says, slow and dangerous, an ominous cold front that's frosty enough to reverse global warming. Jason shivers. "The one that read 'Dick kidnapped by crazy bird freaks. Went to go get him. Somewhere in Gotham's sewers. Ugh why is it always sewers, I fucking hate sewers. Be back later. Love, Jason and Tim.' That note?"

Jason's honestly not sure what the problem is. All the relevant information was there. Tim glares at him.

"I knew I should have written the note," he hisses like an angry cat. Jason rolls his eyes again, because really, what other weapon does he have against his brothers' Drama?

"We had time for me to write a note, Tim. We didn't have time for you to write an essay with fully annotated footnotes all properly accredited according to MLA approved guidelines."

"I can be brief!"

"Name one time that you have ever been brief about anything. Ever."

Tim hesitates.

"Just because I can't think of anything right this second doesn't mean it didn't happen! You're just putting me on the spot," he sulks.

"Whatever. I'm not going to apologize for being in a rush. We had an older brother to save from evil brainwashing birdwatchers, remember? Would everyone prefer we took our sweet time and got here and found Zombie Dick instead?"

Tim wilts. Their mother thaws. Jason savors the moment. He so rarely gets to enjoy the moral high ground. Its nice, really. He can kinda see the appeal from up here, actually.

"That's Elite General Zombie Dick to you, peon," Dick chooses that moment to interject. Jason inhales through his nose. Five seconds. Five whole seconds that lasted.

"Seriously?" He asks his older brother. Dick blinks innocently.

"I am very traumatized by my near undeath experience," he explains. "That's just my coping mechanism."

Jason's eye twitches.

Later still, Jason somehow winds up getting into it with the Joker of all people, in Ethiopia of all places. Seriously, what, he still doesn't understand how or why any of that happened. His life, man. So fucking random.

But that's a story for another day. It doesn't end all that badly, all things considered, not nearly as bad as it could've. The moral of the story is essentially that six out of seven days, Jason is still the brother best avoided in dark alleys, but on the seventh day....Dick and Timmy are perhaps best avoided as well.

And later still, some jackass with a Wizard of Oz fetish decides that Tim-napping isn't just the worst colossally bad fucking idea any misfiring synapses have ever conceived. In this AU though, we stan brothers who check, double check and triple check before calling a time of death, because like the saying goes, fool us once, shame on you, fool us thirty seven times in just any single given decade, then yeah, that's probably on us at that point....

But non-brother approved Tim Tormenting is highly frowned upon in this universe, so Dick and Jason make like the Brothers Grimm, sharpen their spells and go questing down a literal yellow brick road that Dick conjures to lead them straight to the mysterious Mister Oz. And one of these days, Jason would really like to know where Dick gets some of his spells, he really would. Because. Yeah. Never mind, that's best unpacked another day, he figures.

Truthfully, that's all a story for another day as well, as Dick and Jason and Tim probably need to compare notes first and clear up a few things among themselves. None of them are entirely sure they even get what all of that was even about at all. It all seemed very strange and unnecessary, the standard villain monologues were a lot less explanatory than usual, nobody ever really satisfactorily explained Why You So Creepily Interested In Our Baby Bro, Bee Tee Dubs, and the deeper down the rabbit hole they all went, the more every reveal seemed to lead to an increasingly smaller Russian nesting doll hidden inside in the previous one.

And maybe the bad guy was Superman's dead dad from Krypton, which...okay, weird, whatever. And maybe he was just a patsy and the real monster all along was this giant glowing blue guy who seemed to have every power imaginable except for the power to put on a freaking pair of pants? I mean, everyone needs a gimmick, I guess. And then behind that funhouse mirror they found maybe the real villain all along was some rando in a toga who called himself Ozymandias and claimed to have been a hero, and nope, nuh uh, Jason isn't buying that for a second, he says you named yourself in reference to a line that literally says Look Upon My Works O Ye Mighty And Despair and you're saying everyone just went yup, that checks out, we've got ourselves a hero here, pure intentions through and through? Nope, sorry, not buying it.

And Ozy's face got as purple as the costume that would've gotten him in the door to any frat party but not much else, and honestly, as much as it flaps in a firm breeze its not even a step up from Dr. Moons Over Manhattan's permanent residency at a nude ranch he takes with him everywhere he goes, more of a lateral move really....

And he opened his mouth to say something suitably villainous and to do something no doubt dastardly, but that's when Dick cut him off with a yawn and a "Oh my god I have never been this bored in my life, I honestly don't care. Literally nobody asked." And he conjured up his yellow brick road again, told them he had no idea which of them needed the brain, which the heart and which the courage, but like...discuss among yourselves, and then he and Jason punted all three losers off to see the Wizard except Dick shrugged after shutting down the spell and said that guy died, like, five years ago. Its just no one else there has figured that out yet. Whoops. Oh well.

Look, its as clear and understandable a resolution to that particular adventure as anyone else might have doled out over an unnecessarily padded number of weeks until the patience of everyone involved was stretched well past the point of reason, so....whatever. That's what happened, the end.

And then Jason blows some shit up until he feels better about how obnoxiously pointless all that was and there's lots of yelling about worst bad guys ever, is there no vetting process anymore, are the inmates running the asylum, has the whole universe gone mad. Which somehow segues into Tim yelling about is Jason seriously upstaging him at his own Dramatic Rescue, how is this about him, oh my god, can't I even get five whole minutes to angst without you carjacking the family Waah-mobile.

Meanwhile Dick leans back contentedly against the one wall still standing as a convenient backdrop, and watches the baby bros go. And Mom says they don't have any family traditions.

He actually really enjoys these moments. At least the ones where nobody's yelling at him.

But again, as I said....really all that's a tale for another day. On this day, what remains of significance is the universal truism that no matter the universe, the timeline, the place or the time or the people.....

If there be a Bruce, then that Bruce is gonna Bruce.

And we all know what that looks like.

That is to say:

Meanwhile, back in Gotham, events unfold in strangely familiar ways. Even if some of their usual players are currently preoccupied sojourning their way back across the dimensions before they're late for dinner and Momma Zatara has their heads. Adopted though her kids may be, Zatanna is still an Italian mother. And you do not fuck with an Italian mother's family dinner plans.

That's how people die.

But fractionally less dramatically than Zatanna sits awaiting her boys' late arrival to dinner with a A Damn Good Explanation For That If They Know What’s Good For Them, Bruce meets Cassandra Cain and rescues her from her father.

He’s still Bruce Wayne, even if events played out differently for his first three canon kids. So he does what any Bruce would do and adopts her.

And then Cass brings Stephanie home and says she’s a runaway and her dad was a villain and well, what’s Bruce gonna do, not adopt her? Don't be absurd.

And then Talia shows up on Bruce’s doorstep and shoves a ten year old Damian at him and says "Congratulations, its a boy. Please take care of him while I go and try and kill my father and sister without getting killed by them first. I’m not sure how long that will take but my father has managed to last six centuries despite countless betrayals so I suspect it might be awhile."

I imagine these events all happen roughly in the span of a month, because there is no such thing as a world where Bruce knows how to pace himself.

There’s also no such thing as a world where Bruce knows how to gracefully ask for help. But even at his most stubborn he’s capable of recognizing when things fall outside his skillset and his best move is to seek advice from experts in fields outside his expertise. Like parenting.

And his old friend Zatanna has raised three boys who are well loved and respected by the entire hero community, so she must know what she’s doing. Yes, absolutely, his frazzled mind decides. Zatanna will have all the answers. His logic is sound. He's double checked his math and everything. Yes, he has equations for this sort of thing. No, they're not scientifically or empirically accurate, but just because one has arbitrarily assigned numeric values to various events, decisions and possible outcomes in order to justify to oneself that one's intended course of action is Endorsed By Data and Scientifically Derived Conclusions, like....that doesn't mean those values are all arbitrary and the conclusions and data that derive from them are fictitious and meaningless.

Shhh, shhh, don't question that last sentence, just nod and smile and accept that you're just not quite brilliant enough to understand the genius that is Brucenometry, and that's totally understandable and the real reason Bruce hasn't shared the math system he invented with the rest of the world. We just wouldn't get it, you see?

(And yes, he absolutely calls it Brucenometry in his head, because despite what the Batmen of other universes would have us believe, all the eight year old incarnations of Dick Grayson are naught but a scapegoat for the emotionally stunted manchild who absolutely devised the labeling system of 'what if I put Bat in front of every word tho and that's how you knew it was mine, yes, good, this is obviously the most logical and efficient taxonomy possible, its practically the Occam's Bat-Razor of nomenclatures, huzzah I am the smartest in all the land, eat my Batshit I mean guano I mean crazy I mean shut up no you're dumb.' And if you don't think Bruce sounds like that in his head you're just drinking the Kool-Aid, dear reader. Pick up any issue where Bruce is having an emotional fight with someone and skip to where he insists on having the last word before sweeping dramatically into the darkness, and substitute that last word with 'nuh uh, your face'. It reads practically the same, I swear.

Anyway, thus Brucenometry is only Brucenometry instead of Batnometry because he came up with the math first. The math is literally how he calculated that combining crime fighting with his fursona was by far the most expedient route for building a better, brighter Gotham? Duh? Like if you don't get it, he really can't explain it any more clearly than that, and this is possibly one of the reasons he doesn't let the Martian Manhunter in his head. Well, that and all the equally Scientific Ponderings on how accurate a label 'Buns of Steel' is for Superman's butt, and how might this best be tested. Y'know. For Science.)

It's possible I've gotten off track here. I blame Bruce. Bruce blames Clark's ass. Its this whole thing.

Ahem.

So Bruce decides Zatanna has all the answers to all his questions, clearly. Because you see, Bruce knows practically everything that's worth knowing, so anyone who knows something Bruce doesn't already know, ergo, ipso facto, must therefor in conclusion be smarter than Bruce. And if they're smarter than Bruce, as smart as Bruce already is and knowing as much as Bruce already knows, well then, they must know literally everything.

Bam. You've just been Bat Logic-ed.

Bruce sends a message. He waits. He's expecting something along the lines of a call back, but one minute he blinks and the next minute Zatanna's in the middle of the disaster his new brood of three have made of his living room, hands on her hips, shaking her head as she looks around.

“What did you do?” She asks, exasperatedly.

He really doesn't understand why so many people take that particular tone with him. All of his choices are excellent and backed by Brucenometry. He can show his work and everything.

Bruce would respond, but he’s distracted by the three unknown variables. He admittedly had not expected her to bring all three of her boys along with her. Then again, they're magicians and magic always messes up his calculations. Its the worst. Stupid magic. He keeps himself from glaring at the teenager, practically still a teenager, and fully grown man chugging down a Pixie stick while playing what sounds like Candy Crush on his phone with his free hand.

Zee just shakes her head at him when Bruce tries to turn her question back on her with a pointed look.

“They were with me when I got your message and they wanted to come. Given how non-informative and vague the information you gave me was, it seemed plausible they might have a helpful perspective. Don’t change the subject. What did you do.”

“In all fairness, I should clarify that we were mostly just bored,” Tim says dryly.

“Also, this sounded amazing,” Jason adds, smirking.

Dick bounces up and down. “I’m very excited to be here for this! By the way, what is this, what's happening, what's going on? I was not totally paying complete attention, maybe. Oooh, does this place have an indoor pool? I bet it has an indoor pool. God, I love how completely unnecessary old rich people houses are, its amazing.”

That’s when a ten year old mini-Bruce wanders in, parentage apparent in every premature scowl line on his face. “Father, who are these people?”

Dick emits a gleeful sound that lends credence to his spirit friends’ theory he’s not entirely human and just appears right next to Damian, sweeping him up into a hug. His brothers blink, unsure if he had a teleport spell they didn’t know about, or if his natural ability to seek out anyone in need of a hug like a heat-seeking missile could actually allow him to move faster than the eye can see. Could go either way, to be honest.

“Oh my god, he’s like a tiny baby bat, he’s adorable,” Dick says, words rushing out at a speed normally achievable only by speedsters.

Damian has frozen at the unexpectedness of his behavior, but the outrage swiftly sets in. “What did you just call me?”

“A tiny baby bat!”

“Not that, the other thing.”

“Adorable!”

“How dare you!” The ten year old produces a knife from somewhere and attempts a stabbing that results in said knife being transmuted into a Twizzler. Dick twists in that unnatural way only his body is capable of and somehow mid-hug still manages to eat the Twizzler, because why not, apparently.

“I’m keeping him,” Dick declares, right on schedule. "He is my new brother and also now my weekend favorite, sorry not sorry. Jason is now my Monday and Friday favorite and Timmy is my Tuesday and Thursday favorite. Wednesdays can be my me time."

"But Dick," Tim deadpans in a lifeless monotone, now absorbed in doing something with his own phone. "How can I not be your Wednesday favorite? On Wednesdays we wear pink."

Jason rocks back on his heels, rolls his head back on his neck and stares up at the room's high, vaulted ceiling despairingly. "I hate that I get that reference. I hate that so much. I just don't know if I hate Tim for saying it, Dick for being the reason he said it, or me for hearing it and getting it. Quick, somebody tell me who to punch, I can't make this decision, its too hard."

Zatanna pinches the bridge of her nose and exhales. Cass and Steph lurk in the doorway and stare at the scene, bemused. Bruce is statue still. It’s possible his complete inability to process anything that’s happening right now has computer-crashed his every system. See kids, this is what comes of spending too much time trying to emulate a robot. Don't do drugs. Stay in school. Emote.

“Dick, I know that worked out for you the last two times you tried that, but its not going to fly here. This child actually has an emotionally invested parent capable of providing for him, and I don’t believe the Batman is likely to relinquish his claim without a fight,” Zatanna says, her exasperation now redirected at her eldest.

Dick remains unphased; merely diverts his attention from Damian to the boy’s father, raking his eyes up and down Bruce as the older man reenacts the pose of Rodin's lesser known work: The Oh God, What Was I Thinking.

He sniffs. Once. Pointedly unimpressed. “I am willing to work out a shared custody agreement,” Dick says regally.

Bruce gradually twitches his way back into the realm of actual human activity and motion.

“What?” He shakes himself all over, a bit like a dog. Then he seems to reboot his higher cognitive functions as he draws up to his full height and towers over the younger man. “I’m not sure what you think you’re playing at here, but this is not why I called your mother and I do not need some boy barely out of his teens to tell me -"

Dick cuts him off, rolling his eyes even as Bruce, Steph, Cass and Alfred’s eyes all widen at the sheer novelty of that. Even Damian goes silent and still, no longer fighting Dick’s octopus like limbs as he’s too busy flicking his attention back and forth between Dick and Bruce like he’s a spectator at a tennis match, watching it unfold.

Jason and Tim just smirk knowingly. Zatanna regrets everything.

“Yes, yes, we’re aware the Batman has a million contingency plans for any given scenario. We’re all very impressed. Your IQ is huge,” Dick says flatly. “Quick question though, how many of those contingency plans involve hugging?”

Bruce blinks. “What?”

“That’s what I thought,” Dick continues smugly. “Now, in your history as a crime fighter and a benefactor of numerous children’s charities, do you dispute that all children at certain times need to be hugged?”

“No?” Bruce answers uncertainly. He…has no precedence for this. What is happening right now.

“Mmm,” Dick hums, nodding. “And in your personal self-assessment and in light of all your established behavior to date, would you say with confidence that you are capable of always recognizing when a child is in need of a hug, as well as being able and willing to provide that child with said hug yourself?”

Bruce frowns. Everyone in the room takes that as a no. Seals in Antarctica look up and take that as a no, without any idea why they just did that or what it even is they just did. Also, what the hell is a no, they have no clue. They still somehow know the answer to that question was no.

“Exactly,” Dick says. “So, to sum up, we’ve established that your children need hugs, you need to be taught when and how to identify when your children need you to hug them, and until such a time as you’re capable of that, your children still need hugs. In conclusion, my services are direly needed and I am willing to teach you everything I know about providing adorable children with emotional support in exchange for the role of their designated Hug-Giver for the time being. Do you accept my offer?”

“I…” Still stuck on the unprecedented feeling of being at a total loss for words, Bruce is slow to answer. Not that it matters.

“Trick question!” Dick announces cheerfully. “There was no offer, its already been decided. I can start immediately. You're welcome.”

He shifts Damian to his hip with one arm and raises the other to offer the boy his hand for a shake. “Hi Damian, I’m Dick, I’m your official Hug-Giver for now. Nice to meet you!”

Damian shakes Dick’s hand, more out of confusion than anything else. Clearly, nothing in his training or experience offers him any obvious alternate response to Dick’s behavior. “Father, who is this man? What is happening? I don’t understand.”

“That makes two of us,” the goddamn Batman says helplessly. They can all see his face spasming, his muscles twitching as if periodically glitching while he tries to compute and come up with a course of action that adequately counters Dick’s….whatever the hell you describe Dick and his entire….essence, as.

Gods have tried and failed to accurately describe Dick and his whole….Dick-ness. The Batman never stood a chance.

Tim takes pity on him. He’s mostly preoccupied hacking the Manor’s wi-fi on his phone, trying to see if he can backdoor from there into the famed Batcave’s computers. No real reason, he’s just curious. But even barely paying attention, he can still tell the difference between Dick’s more generic ‘oooh a squirrel!’ ADHD reaction to all adorable children or animals in his general vicinity, and the genuine emotional attachment his brother has clearly already formed with the confused child assassin. It’s too late now. Whether he’s even realized it or not, Damian stopped trying to escape Dick’s hug practically from the word go, even if he is unconsciously using his confusion to blind himself to how he’s already started to sink into it. Not even Superman himself could pry the kid out of Dick’s arms at this point.

“You can try all you want to come up with ways to keep this from happening, but you’ll just be wasting your time and energy,” Tim advises, still intent on his phone. Two passwords down, nice. Only….ninety more to go? Jeez. Oh god, if he’s this redundant about his cyber security, he’s gonna try and be stubborn about this, isn’t he? Ugh, how inefficient.

“Look, no matter how many plans you come up with, it doesn’t matter what you throw at him or how convoluted or well-crafted it is. At a certain point Dick’s just going to say screw it and dig his heels in, and no offense, but I’ve seen him out-stubborn demons. He once got a Duke of Hell to release a claim on Jason’s soul by committing to “I know you are but what am I” until the ageless being composed of pettiness and spite got frustrated and gave up. My brother on a mission to dole out affection is an actual force of nature. Like hurricanes. Even Jason lets Dick hug him. And Jason hates everything.”

“Die screaming,” Jason says conversationally.

“See a therapist about your Cain complex,” Tim returns, equally pleasant.

“I thought I told you boys to be on your best behavior,” Zatanna says. Either exasperated again, or just still. Hard to say.

Jason cocks an eyebrow at her quizzically before looking around the room. “Umm, we are, aren’t we? I mean, we’ve been here for at least five minutes and nothing’s on fire or broken yet. You gotta admit that’s like, a record for us.”

Zatanna sputters helplessly for a moment before collapsing onto the couch with a sigh. “The bar is too low,” she mutters. "And don't think I didn't catch that bit about a Duke of Hell having a claim on Jason's soul at some point. We will be circling back to that later, at home."

"Dude," Jason hisses, glaring at his little brother. "Spoilers!"

"Sorry," Tim says distractedly, with a distinct lack of sincerity. "In my defense, we lie about a lot of stuff and I forget to keep track of it all."

"You have an eidetic memory."

"Okay, so I forget to care about keeping track of it all," Tim amends, shrugging.

"That's just because you never get in as much trouble as me and Dick. Helps to be the baby of the family," Jason grumbles.

Tim hums softly in agreement, tongue poking out of the corner of his mouth as he peers intently at his screen. "The perks are nice."

Zatanna interjects as she eyes her two younger sons, a slight edge in voice. "Exactly how much stuff am I being lied to about? Ballpark figure."

Jason glares at Tim again. "You're a goddamn menace."

"I should probably be stopped," Tim agrees.

“Nonsense!” Damian’s aggrieved voice cuts over everyone else in the room. “I am an al Ghul, and heir to the Batman. If this tournament you speak of were truly a contest of champions, I would certainly have heard of it before now.”

Dick returns his glower with his usual beaming grin. “I swear by every being of both the higher and lower planes to ever lend me power or aid. Super Mario Kart is a test of manual dexterity, hand-eye coordination and reflex agility. Any true warrior should be more than capable of defeating all competitors at it.”

Damian stays trained on his face for a good minute, searching it for any hint of deception. Finally he turns and sweeps his imperious gaze around the room, jumping back and forth between his father to Jason and Tim, though the latter is still absorbed tracking to crack the thirty-sixth password to the Batcomputer. “Is this true?”

“Technically yes,” Jason says with the smirk to end all smirks. Sometimes his older brother is a total toolbag, but sometimes it really is like watching a master at work. How to Lie Without Telling a Single Lie by Dick Grayson-Zatara.

Damian harrumphs like the eighty seven year old that he is at heart, but with a secondary affirmation and no one speaking up to offer a counter-claim, his pride seems to allow him no alternative to accepting Dick’s challenge.

“Very well,” he says grudgingly. “I will engage you in this competition of supers and carts. But when I inevitably prove victorious, as consequence for your failure you and your babbling are to be banished from my father’s estate, never to return.”

“K!” Dick grins. “But if I win, you have to initiate three hugs a day for a solid week straight, at which point you may challenge me to a rematch and reclaim your honor.”

“Preposterous! One hug a day. No more.”

“One hug a day, but after two weeks I can challenge you to a rematch at my home instead.”

“I shudder to think what you might consider an acceptable abode. No, if I must vanquish you twice before you realize the folly of challenging an al Ghul, you shall return here only for the purposes of engaging in this ‘rematch’, and only after two months have passed, so that you may reflect on the futility of such.”

“One month, final offer.”

“Tt. Your terms are acceptable,” Damian decides at last. Dick’s already brilliant smile grows impossibly more blinding, as it is wont to do. The whole defiance of physics thing he does so well. Unprepared for it, the startled boy blinks, corners of his mouth twitching ever so slightly upwards before he regains his normal stern countenance. “Now lead me to these carts at once. I wish to see you defeated before supper, so I do not have to suffer your presence through my meal.”

“You got it, lil D!” Dick chirps happily, bouncing through the doorway and down the hall, where Cass and Steph exchange glances that condense an entire conversation to thirty seconds of back and forth facial expressions. They then race down the hall after the two. Damian’s outrage drifts back behind them.

“My name is Damian al Ghul-Wayne, you buffoon! It is a name of power and significance, heavy with meaning and intent. How dare you reduce it to a simple reference to physical stature!”

“Aww, I’m sorry bud! It was meant as an endearment not an insult. I give nicknames to all my friends and family. What if I called you Dami? Is that better?”

“….I suppose if my full name is too difficult for you to manage, Dami is at least marginally more tolerable. But only if it is understood that we are hardly friends!”

“Whatever you say, Dami!”

Their voices fade into the distance after that. Jason puts his hands in his pockets and strolls casually after them.

“That was amazing. My faith in humanity has like....risen reborn from the ashes. I might even believe in Santa Claus again? Not sure yet about that last part," he muses to no one in particular. "I’m so happy right now.”

Tim shrugs and trails after him. If everyone else is going, well. No reason he can’t finish hacking the Batcomputer from wherever they end up.

Bruce watches them disappear down the hallway before staggering over to the couch and dropping down onto it next to Zatanna. He stares blankly at the wall.

“What.” He utters helplessly.

Zatanna pats his leg. “You get used to it. Eventually.”

And that’s how even when Dick’s adopted by Zatanna Zatara instead of Bruce Wayne, he, Jason, Tim, Damian, Cass, Steph and those to follow all still end up siblings in every way that matters.

[drarry-with-a-side-of-harry]

Journey into the MCU XII

Avengers: Endgame

I just watched Endgame. Part of me doesn’t even know what to say. Some bits were brilliant and exactly what I wanted them to be and then some bits were just... a bit shit?

Don’t get me wrong. I loved it. Whenever something happened I was screaming ‘ABSOLUTELY NOT’ you know, in the best way :) ...But... I had to love it, you know what I mean? Seriously though, don’t really know what the shit I just watched (in a good way lol)

So, I love the fact that it started with Clint - that already got me crying (the first of the 41 instances of crying due to this film and probably the fact that I’m hormonal lmao). I adored Tony and Nebula’s interaction playing the game in space and I was like ‘Ah shit here we go again he’s adopting another one’ lol. I honestly had no idea how they were going to get back to Earth until That Bitch™ turns up - I actually waaaaay prefer Carol in this film to Captain Marvel!!!

STEVE RUNS TO TONY WHEN THE SHIP LANDS! I CAN’T! HE’S BY HIS SIDE BEFORE PEPPER EXCUSE YOU BITCH WHAT!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHH

I love them so much :’) sorry I’ll stop

Tony’s whole ‘zero zip nada no trust liar’ just. Wow. Very well done to both RDJ and Evans because that’s improvised right? I love!

I really like Thor, Protector of Lesbians and That Bitch’s interaction. Instantly a yes from me.

I enjoyed Thor’s desperation at just slicing that purple twat’s head off.

I’m trying to do this chronologically but I’m gonna start fucking up. Whatever.

I HATE what they did to Bruce. I wanted to see Bruce Banner being distraught and instead they wrote in all this unnecessary humour which personally I didn’t think was too funny maybe because I was too mad and made him permanently green?? Excuse me? The Russos have gotta be clowning right? The dared do THIS to the strongest avenger? Fuck off honestly. Think about what that man has been through - tried to kill himself and this is the treatment he gets?! No.

I like the fact that Thor is depressed because that was a natural decline. And I mean, he was depressed waaay before 2023 right? He has lost EVERYTHING and can’t really relate to anyone else because most of his loss was different, but he manages to maintain some of the humour we see from him in Ragnarok, HOWEVER I feel like the Russos were just trying too hard to make the humour happen and it just didn’t feel right?

LOVE THE FACT THAT THEY GOT OUT OF THE ‘OH SCOTT’S STUCK IN THE QUANTUM REALM’ PLOT HOLE WITH A RAT SCURRYING ACROSS THE CONTROLS. BITCH. I CAN’T EVEN BE MAD AT THAT. THAT’S JUST ICONIC.

Also, Tony Stark really is one of the best dads, huh? Along with Mr. Lang of course. AND NEITHER OF THEM GOT TO SEE THEIR KIDS GROW UP SORRY MORE ON THAT LATER.

I understand that Tony wasn’t on board at first, despite being a bit annoyed at him being selfish, I got it. And then bitch gets on board and everything’s happy for 20 minutes.

The Time Heist was ICONIC aND no one can tell me otherwise!!! Honestly just the fact that it was called the time heist and it was Scott’s plan and Scott is still tHE biggest fanboy - we stan.

I knew about the time travel shit before watching and thought they were gonna fuck it up because time travel is difficult with regard to not just going ‘so now we’re gonna go back and fix everything, job done’ but I actually think they did a pretty good job and did well explaining how *this version* of time travel was gonna work.

I really enjoyed Bruce’s interaction with the Ancient One and when she realises there must be a problem in the future if Stephen saved Tony’s life for the stone.

STEVE, TONY AND SCOTT WERE EVERYTHING AND I ABSOLUTELY LOVED THESE GUYS BACK IN 2012!!! I love Tony making Scott induce a heart attack. ICONIC. I live for the fact that we see all this sort of ‘behind the scenes’ action of The Avengers 2012 and the stuff that happened after the event and the ins and outs of everything. I will NEVER be over these whole shenanigans!!!!! I already knew about Cap V Cap but nOTHING could’ve prepared me for tHAT. This will be a continuing theme lol. I had no idea the whole ‘that is America’s ass’ thing actually happened jfc. SIDE NOTE: Tony really does say ‘I forgot that suit did nothing for your ass Cap’ bITCH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA why you looking though you bi little shit lmao I’m not sorry. Steve whispering Hail Hydra was iconic and I was screaming ‘FUCK YEH BITCH FUCK EM UP NOW THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THE FUCKS GOING ON HELL YEAH STEVE!!!!!!’ and at first I was like ‘wait, are they gonna recreate the CATWS elevator fight sequence?’ and then they did tHAT. ICONIC. And then I also knew that they go back further because I knew Tony met Howard and I knew about Dr. Potts and Capt. Stevens (lol) BUT NOTHING COULDVE PREPARED ME FOR THAT EITHER!!!! That shit got me FUCKED aND he hUGged him! He hugged his dad! I was! Not ready! For that!

Anyway so their time heist was really nice and I loved it so much it was everything I could’ve hoped for.

Thor and Frigga’s interaction I thought was really nice and she MUST know by the way he’s talking that in his future, the near future, she’s dead. I just find it so lovely and she completely restores Thor’s confidence in himself.

NOW

CLINT AND NAT

ABSOLUTELY NOT

That totally fucked me up. I knew Nat died at Vormir but turns out it didn’t matter that I already knew because nothing could’ve prepared me for that either.

For one, they hint at it quite a bit after they’ve finalised the plan - you know, that someone’s gonna go there and die. Nebula knows and we know that whoever’s going to Vormir ain’t coming back - well, one of them. oops

Secondly, I had no idea that they *playfully* fought it out to decide who it was gonna be and I was sOBBING from the moment they got to Vormir till- uhhh- well tbh it never stopped but you get the point. The whole fact that Nat realised that *this* was her purpose and after what Clint had been doing for the last five years, he thought he was too far gone and didn’t deserve his family anymore, even if they could get them back. It just totally fucked me up. That was one of my favourite scenes.

Sad Steve. AHHHH.

Then a whole load of shit happens and Thanos learns about the plan. I like the way Thanos talking about his future self is written, so kudos to the writers on that one!

I also appreciate the fact that there’s no delay between Thanos, Squidward and the rest of his crew coming to the future and the fight. That’s it. All of a sudden we’re straight into it! Great!

AHHHHHHH so now it’s time for The Big Three to confront Thanos and I just LOVE this sequence so much I honestly can’t express it and I was so so sooooo hoping that I would see these three on their own (plus purple numpty of course). At this point Thanos is just completely psycho because he wants to destroy the universe and create a new one which is an addition I really like - creates a new sense of urgency I suppose.

In other news, Steve Rogers is worthy! Which I love because somewhere around CATWS I started stanning this bitch!

Dr. Strange’s portals? ICONIC. Hotel? TRIVAGO.

Peter’s back and his and Tony’s whole interaction and hug had me in fucking tears jesus fUCKING christ nope. That shit hurt. THAT IS HIS SON RIGHT THERE. FUCK.

RIGHT.

TONY MOTHERFUCKING STARK.

The fact Stephen knows - has known for 5 years - what must happen.

The look on both their faces when Tony realises.

Nope.

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Made me wanna die.

Then he does it. Fuck. I’m completely fucked now. Thanks. And then Peter’s by his side and Peter’s whole speech while Tony’s just dYING!!!!!! ABSOLUTELY NOT. I DID NOT COME HERE TO BE HURT LIKE THIS. AND RHODEY. AND PEPPER. AND PEPPER HAS TO PULL PETER OFF. NOPE.

THEN they dare just cUT TO THE FUNERAL??!!?!

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Get the fuck out honestly.

Tony’s recording. No.

The placing of everyone at the funeral was just perfect. The funeral was just beautiful in general tbh. The Proof That Tony Stark Has A Heart on the flowers. HARLEY!!!!!!! NO.

AND MORGAN WANTED CHEESE BURGERS JFC HAPPY IS GOING TO BE THE BEST UNCLE WOW!!!

Did I know Tony Stark was gonna die? Yes I did. I would’ve had to leave Tumblr to not have found out. There’s only so much that tagging can hide and you see something that hints at it and then you see a quick gif and then you just know, you know?

Did it prepare me? Fuck no.

Now, Steve.

What tHE ACTUAL FUCK?

What was that?

I’m not buying it.

Love the fact he passed Cap onto Sam, but to spend the rest of his life with Peggy? Fuck no. Some girl he knew too seconds vs spending the rest of his life with his BEST FRIEND who was irreplaceable. Fuck off. Bucky’s face throughout the whole sequence. The poor man was fucking devastated. And I’m writing this from a canon perspective because I’m all for stucky you know? Then I asked my self: ‘How could Steve do that?’ Conclusion: he couldn’t and he wouldn’t - the writers were playing silly games and none of us, none of us are buying it.

Did I know all this was gonna go down? Yes. Was I prepared? No.

Not for Bucky’s fucking face jfc. All they got was a line and a quick hug. They were BEST FRIENDS. I honestly can’t stress that enough. Wow.

The deleted scenes. Of course I have watched them aND WHY IN THE SHIT WERE THEY DELETED??? Russos are fucking clowns!!!! They all fucking kneeled for him and that was cut? You having a laugh mate?! And Gerald the Alpaca was cut because??? The extra Howard and Tony didn’t make the cut? Excuse you? Tony’s talking about how he doesn’t think he’s done enough, and then he goes and does the aBSOLUTE MOST???? :’) fuck. And uhhh Rhodey having the ONLY brain cell in the avengers with the whole ‘well you coulda jumped out the plane beforehand Cap’ lmaooo brilliant!!!

So they may be deleted but let me tell you, they released them so now they’re fucking canon.

So in conclusion, did I know all the major spoilers before watching this film? Yes because I wasn’t going to be a tumblr hermit, but managed to pretty successfully ignore them until today. SO WAS I PREPARED? FUCK NO!

Surprisingly I LOVED Clint in Endgame - not that I didn’t like him before but I just really respect how broken he is in this. His family. Nat. It really adds up and I really enjoyed what they did with his character.

I did really love it generally but just wasn’t entirely happy with some of the character choices - because they seemed pretty damn out of character! There’s development over 5 years of not having seen them, and then... there’s... some other situations.

Would I have enjoyed it more not knowing any spoilers? Completely! But I wasn’t gonna stay clear of Tumblr for 4 months lol.

Main thing I will take away from watching this. I miss Tony Stark so much and love him so much. And no I will not shut up about it. And was I crying for a good hour after the film ended and then some whilst I was watching the extra content? Maybe.

Also I’m so emotional that this is IT for Downey and Chris. Wow. Ok I’m done :’)

[that-shamrock-vibe]

Superhero Spotlight: Avengers Endgame Posters - Reveals and Theories

Alright so we have our first set of characters posters for the upcoming juggernaut that is Avengers: Endgame to conclude and capitalize on the equally huge Avengers: Infinity War and wrap up what has been called the Infinity Saga phase of the MCU.

As these posters have raised many opinions, questions, theories and rather touching memes relating to other franchises and properties, I thought I would give my thoughts to some of the questions and theories as well as raise my own.

Missed Opportunities:

Alright so I can’t really go into what’s good or bad in terms of breaking down the posters because, unlike others, these are simply more or less headshots of the characters. Now on the one hand, this is a rather touching throwback to the first Avengers movie where the character posters there were also somewhat headshots as the main six characters were only shown to the side of the posters half-in in full supersuit attire. But that raises the negative aspect to this choice in that, it would have been nice to have seen the characters that aren’t in full supersuit attire in supersuit attire.

Now I can understand both sides of the argument to why they didn’t do this. As to why it would have been a good idea is because, for some of them, this is most likely their last hoorah when it comes to starring in an MCU movie and so to show Iron Man, Captain America, War Machine, Spider-Man and Black Panther with their masks/helmets would have been a nice touch rather than just seeing the character end with the head and then the actors take over from the neck up. But at the same time I can see why they didn’t because it adds another layer of drama and likeability to these characters if you can see the defeated look in their eyes and the determination they have to “Avenge the Fallen”.

Falcon, Star-Lord and Captain Marvel I give passes to on that because the latter two’s headgear isn’t always used and goggles pretty much block out any emotion. Also Thor and Loki’s helmets haven’t been used recently, Ant-Man and Wasp I give passes to in the same way I give Iron Man a pass.

In terms of characters not getting a poster, I do believe this all but confirms that Peter Dinklage’s Eitri will not return because even some of those who died prior to the snap made the cut for a poster and we will get into that.

Others who didn’t get a poster, who I am not so much surprised about but if Wong and Happy got posters why not them, are Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne, Maria Hill, Nakia, M’Baku, Erik Selvig and Jane Foster. While we don’t know the fate of the latter four we didn’t know the confirmed fates of Valkyrie or Shuri to be certain.

Another missed opportunity is not having Ruffalo pictured with some sort of Hulk colouring. I still say his full promo shot for The Avengers which showed the Jekyll/Hyde of the character perfectly was one of the best promos the MCU has had. Whether or not they don’t want to reveal too much of this new Hulk they’re teasing may explain his absence but we’ll see.

The Reveals:

Alright so three major things are revealed in these posters alone. 1) Valkyrie, Wong and Happy survived the Snap, Valkyrie’s survival most likely means her rumoured appearance in the movie is true. I do find it interesting how all of the shippers who try pairing Cap and Bucky together in a romantic way are now also pairing Carol Danvers and Valkyrie together, yet unlike “Stucky” this pairing actually seems to be a potential thing as not only has Captain Marvel become an overnight LGBT icon akin to Wonder Woman, but because Tessa Thompson has already revealed Valkyrie is bisexual there are grounds for this ship to become canon and for us to have our first LGBT superhero romance in superhero movies either kicking off or teased in Phase 4.

The second thing that is revealed is Shuri apparently did not survive the snap, I genuinely believe this is a fake-out by Kevin Feige and/or the Russo Brothers as a way of throwing us off guard for a massive shock reveal.

I suspect, much like a lot of fans, that the shot of Shuri’s image among the list of the missing which also includes Spider-Man and Ant-Man is simply that, a list of the missing...not deceased or dusted. Yes Spider-Man is dead but unless Tony and/or Nebula are back on Earth at the time of this scene, no one knows if he’s actually dusted or not. We know Ant-Man isn’t dusted but trapped in the Quantum Realm so it stands to reason that after being knocked out by the Black Order during the Battle of Wakanda, she came around and simply went into hiding. There is every chance she survived the Snap because unless we see them turn into dust I wouldn’t trust the word of directors.

The third thing is the fact that only all of Tony’s supporting players survived the Snap. Rhodey, Pepper and Happy all survived to potentially see Iron Man’s last stand? It is weird that both Falcon and Bucky are dusted, no mention of Erik, Darcy and Jane, Fury and Maria Hill are both dusted and Banner lost his supporting players before Mark Ruffalo took over. So out of all the main six’s supporting players only Iron Man has his full team with him, maybe with the exception of Spider-Man but he’s a superhero in his own right.

Heroes are going to die in this movie, thee is no doubt about that. It is just a question of how gut-punching they want to make the deaths.as memorable and outstanding as possible. In my opinion, any of the main six dying would be a gut punch for the MCU but I feel at least Captain America or Iron Man will be one if not two of the casualties in this movie.

I don’t see Black Widow or Thor dying because Thor’s popularity of late has most likely saved him and he’ll hopefully go off and find a new Asgard while Black Widow, who looks fantastic here by the way, has her own movie coming out.

Banner and Hawkeye are the two I am on the fence about from a business and directorial standpoint, I love Hawkeye and am thrilled Renner looks set to finally full realize the character’s awesomeness here but when you think there have to be some casualties here it doesn’t look good. Also I think Bruce Banner/Hulk has run his course within the MCU.

The Theories:

So I have or have heard 3 major theories to come out of these posters, the first is my own Shuri theory in that her colourless photo here is simply a rouse.

The second is one I’ve heard revolving around Loki with fans saying that because he legitimately died prior to the Snap that it is a little bit odd that his photo is among those who have been dusted...unless he is going to return in Endgame. Firstly I am believing the same theory applies to Gamora because while she is in the Soul Stone rather than suffocated to death, she was never dusted and therefore technically shouldn’t be among these photos, otherwise where is Heimdell?

But secondly, I genuinely believe this is simply a list of fallen heroes who fell at the hands or Snap of Thanos and, for better or worse, Loki was a hero in the end as he tried standing up to Thanos. Do I think that means he’s getting a revival with everyone else, well I still say they need to make some deaths stick but because Loki is getting his own series and he has survived death a couple of times before, I would this it is plausible for him to make a surprise return.

The third, long-standing theory is that Marvel and Disney will use the Snap as a way of keeping certain Guardians members dead. This was something brought up in the aftermath of the original blow for James Gunn...but then it turned out he was never really fired and it was all just a fake-out.

When fans thought he had been fired though, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 was in flux to the point where it was getting pushed back and fans believed it would be easier on Disney to keep the dusted Guardians members dead and have Rocket and Nebula either join the Avengers or go off on their own, but again this is now not the case.

If Gunn wants to wrap up his trilogy with his original team, as to be honest I think he should, then it makes sense for the four dusted Guardians members to come back. However, in this fan’s personal opinion, I think the MCU and Guardians 3 could do without at least Drax and Mantis. Star-Lord either needs to be held accountable for his stupidity on Titan or just needs to lead the team and be intimidated by Zac Efron’s Adam Warlock in Guardians 3, Gamora needs to return because she is currently in the Soul Stone. But of course, Dave Bautista is Gunn’s biggest supporter and so he will not stay dead.

Overall:

So it is sad because as nice as these posters look, we as fans already know they’re going to bring people back and looking at all of them lined up...if they don’t have a movie sequel or a co-star role in a movie sequel coming up, they have a television series in the works on Disney+. Now this again could be a rouse by Disney to try and lull us into a false sense of security but the ones who have TV shows like Falcon, Vision and Scarlet Witch are all three of my favourites so I don’t want it to be true and them to be reduced to TV but I also don’t want them to remain dead.

I would say the only ones on the dead side who currently could stay dead are either Hope van Dyne or Nick Fury. Hope because Ant-Man does not have a threequel planned while Doctor Strange, Black Panther, the Guardians and Spider-Man all have upcoming movies. Nick Fury because I can never remember how many more movie’s he has left on his contract and feel Spider-Man Far From Home would be a great fake-out not only if Fury in that movie was an illusion of Mysterio’s but also if it then when further to reveal that Fury was really dead.

So what do you guys think? What’s your favourite poster? Who do you think will stay dead? Do you see a romantic future for Captain Marvel and Valkyrie? Post your comments and check out more Superhero Spotlights as well as other posts

[shadowsong26fic]

Because Roommate and I think we’re funny...

...here’s another excerpt from our Epic Crossover RP of DOOM!

For those of you who don’t know, this started life...yeesh, three years ago...anyway, it started life as a Star Wars/Marvel crossover (primarily rooted in MCU, but with a fair amount of comics canon drawn in; and using Precipice for the Star Wars side).

It has been going for, as I said, three years, probably a good 250-300k words long at least, and now includes ten fandoms (though one is mostly in the background and the other has yet to actually appear on page but will fairly soon). It is delightfully cracky and wonderfully self-indulgent, involving a boatload of OCs because Why Not.

This bit is from fairly early on. As a note, neither of us had seen Rebels when we wrote it, which means that some backstories are not necessarily consistent to canon. Also, if this scene seems to end rather abruptly, it’s because it’s about to veer off into Major Spoilers for a future Precipice arc.

And so, without further ado, behind the cut is an excerpt which focuses on certain Avengers meeting Hondo Ohnaka. Enjoy!

   Tony was actually kind of proud of himself that it had only taken about three hours between "my kids are nowhere to be found" and "rescue party assembled and through the portal." Under ordinary circumstances that would have been quite a bit longer than he liked, but he'd been waylaid into believing Emily used "Coruscant" as a code and it took him a couple of hours to realize she was serious. The remaining hour had been been roughly half and half between recruiting helpers and suiting up, and deciphering Addie's handwriting to figure out the coordinates she'd left. But now they were there, ready to go, him and Steve (of course) and Thor (who adored the girls and had since immediately after he met them, it was weird) and Natasha, silent and deadly. Clint and Bruce had agreed to stay behind, stall Fury and Coulson (and Pepper) and take care of anything that popped up in the meantime. So… here they went… he took a deep breath, and launched himself in full armor through the portal.

   They did not land on Coruscant, or in any other city. But they were on what was probably some kind of spaceship--a cluttered, dirty spaceship, with a trio of aliens playing some sort of dice game on a crate.

   Or, that's what they were doing, until Tony and the others came through the portal. Then they jumped up and started shooting.

   Tony didn't feel entirely comfortable repulsoring the shit out of them, so it was probably a good thing that Steve came through next, and took them all out with a single shield throw. Thor actually looked disappointed, which would have been hilarious if he hadn't been so worried about his kids. He picked a random groaning pirate and hoisted him up, shaking him. Where are my kids?"

   "Kids?" the pirate said. "Dunno what the hell you're talking about. We don't got no kids on board." He somehow dragged a holdout blaster from his boot and tried firing it into Tony's abdomen.

   Oh, hey, the armor deflected blasters too. Tony sometimes amazed himself with how good he was. "They're adults," he said. "But they're my kids, so tell me where they are or else."

   "Dunno what the hell you're talking about," the pirate insisted. "We ain't got no hostages on board at all."

   "Well, well, well, what is going on here?" A fourth pirate had joined them, same species, one with dark goggles and a weird sort of monkey-parrot-thing hovering on his shoulder.

   Natasha was behind him. On the off-chance (or, okay, fairly good chance) that he hadn't noticed her, Tony wasn't planning on drawing his attention to her. "My kids came here, they didn't come back, so where the hell are they?" he asked, without dropping the pirate he had. Thor was swinging his hammer and looking sufficiently ominous even without Steve glaring at the guy.

   "Kids?" The pirate tilted his head and tapped his chin. "No, no children here. I haven't kidnapped anyone's children in almost a year, have I? And let me tell you, Hondo Ohnaka is not a man who lies!"

   "Sure," Tony said, then did a double-take. "Wait, the wiseass pirate?"

   Hondo laughed uproariously. "I like you! Come, come, put down my men and I will help you find your children. I am in a generous mood today!"

   "Are you really," Tony said, more than asked, "or are you just angling for a payday? 'Cause don't get me wrong, I'm happy to pay to get my kids back, but I don't think you accept credit cards."

   Behind Hondo, Natasha raised an eyebrow at him.

   Hondo waved a hand. "We can work out all those details later. Right now, there are children in danger, and I have just finished a very profitable deal--very profitable indeed!"

   Tony hesitantly put the pirate down, and glanced at Steve, who was frowning, but when wasn't he when the kids were in danger. "Technically they're not children," he said. Emily, after all, was an adult. "Well, Addie is."

   "Ah, yes, but daughters are always children, are they not?" Hondo said. "Come, come. You say your children came here? How do you know? You're the first stowaways on my ship, unless that crazy horned man got to my men again."

   "No, Hondo," the pirate Tony had dropped said, rubbing his neck and glaring not-so-subtly in Tony's direction. "We learned our lesson."

   "So! No stowaways, until you came here. Only me, my men, and my new business partner."

   Whoever that was. "My kids are geniuses," Tony said. Thor nodded, and boomed out an, "Indeed!" Tony ignored him, and continued, "One of them built a portal generator and left me these coordinates, which means they came here."

   Natasha, from behind Hondo, inquired, "Where is here?"

   "Deep space," Hondo said. "You are very lucky, I think, that I was here to catch you!"

   "No," Tony said, "because I thought of that and I was going to go back and keep them from coming through if there wasn't anything here." Which he totally would have done, if he'd thought of it. And judging from Natasha's expression, she knew it. He didn't dare look at Steve.

   "I see, I see." Hondo frowned. "Well, we will just have to try and find which ships passed through here in the--whenever your daughters passed through. We find the right ship, we find your children, everyone goes home happy. I like this plan!"

   "So do I," Tony said.

   "Me too," Steve said. "What do you get out of?" He pinned Hondo with his all-American-gung-ho-GI-man glare.

   "I don't think I like you as much as your shiny metal friend," Hondo said thoughtfully. He then shook his head, and completely and totally did not answer Steve's question. "Come! I will show you my scanners, we will find your mystery ship!"

   "Yeah, you didn't answer my question," Steve said.

   "You're going to want to answer his question," Natasha said, sweetly. Since she was pants-wettingly terrifying when she was sweet, Tony wasn't sure how Hondo could hold it together.

   His eyes narrowed behind his glasses. "No, no, I didn't." He sighed, then put back on his carefree persona. "Why must you make things so difficult? Very well, fine. What I get out of it all depends on what ship we find, yes? If they're friends of mine, that's one thing, but if they're not my friends, well. That's something different, isn't it?"

   Which made absolutely no sense to Tony, but Steve's eyes narrowed. "We won't kill anyone for you," he said, flatly.

   "Excuse me," Tony said. "If someone is hurting my kids I absolutely will kill them."

   "Well, yeah," Steve said, momentarily distracted, "but, I mean, that's for the girls, not for him. We're not mercenaries."

   "Technically," Tony started.

   "Tony," Natasha said, still sweetly. "Shut up." He shut up.

   "For me, for them, what does it matter?" Hondo shrugged. "Trust me, my not-friends are very unreasonable people. You won't like them, either."

   "Yeah, you don't seem like the kind of person who'd be friends with the Empire," Tony said. "Wait, are they around yet? When is this?"

   "Ah, the Empire." Hondo tutted and shook his head. "Bad for business, bad for business. Except when they're good for business--more profit, but sadly more risk. This is no game for an old man like me. It's why I'm branching out--new deals, new partners. Legal businesses! Or, well, mostly legal, anyway."

   "Oh," Natasha said, and smiled, sharp and unfairly beautiful. "You two should get along wonderfully, then."

   "Hey, fuck you," Tony said, but not very loudly, in case she heard him. "My business has always been legal. Just not, you know, super ethical sometimes."

   Steve coughed. It sounded like "Stane." Tony gave him the evil eye and said, "I said my business."

   Hondo laughed again. "I knew I liked you, shiny metal man! So, are we going to look at my scanners, or not?"

   Tony wondered if he ought to mention that he wasn't actually metal, and decided that wasn't really an illusion he was interested in dispelling. "Sure, let's go."

   He could hear Steve roll his eyes, but at least Cap got it. "Thor, you're behind Tony. Natasha and I will have the rear. If anyone tries anything, hammer them."

   Thor hefted Mjolnir, and grinned a feral Viking grin at the nearest pirate. "I look forward to any hammering."

   Tony choked at that, but managed to keep his voice steady. "Lead on, weird pirate man."

   The pirates glared back at Thor, and Hondo turned and led them through the cluttered, narrow hallways of his ship.

   They made their way to the bridge without anyone trying anything--Mjolnir seemed to be an effective deterrent.

   On the bridge were another couple Weequay pirates, who Hondo nudged out of the way as they headed to a viewscreen, and someone who looked an awful lot like Lando Calrissian.

   Tony pointed at him and yelled something incoherent. Again, he heard Steve roll his eyes, but screw Steve anyway, he'd seen Empire Strikes Back on opening night and it was formative, all right. "You!"

    Lando blinked, and turned to face the group with one eyebrow raised. "Last I checked, yes. I don't think we've met, though. I'm pretty sure I'd remember the four of you." He flashed a particularly wide grin at Natasha. "Lando Calrissian, at your service."

   Natasha smiled back at him, her unnerving, terrifying smile. "Charmed."

   "Steve Rogers," Steve said, and offered his hand, because Steve was like that. "These are my teammates, Natasha Romanava, Thor, and Tony Stark. We're here looking for our daughters."

   Steve and his "no relationships while in uniform" policy. Ah well.

   At first, Lando had seemed only encouraged by Natasha's terrifying smile--then again, he'd been pretty flirty with Leia at her most antagonistic, so that wasn't all that surprising. But that smile slipped when he heard Steve. He shook his hand firmly. "I'm so sorry to hear that. Is there anything I can do to help?"

   "They were in this part of space sometime recently," Hondo called. "I'm finding the ship they may have landed on for my new friends here."

   "They're smart, they're resourceful, and you shouldn't fuck with either one of them," Tony said, "so I know they're fine, they're just having trouble getting home. So I am here to retrieve them." Or so he was going to continue to tell himself, anyway.

   "As far as we can tell,” Steve continued, "they came here about five hours ago."

   "Good, good," Hondo said. "That will make it easier to find the ship, yes?"

   "Hondo, I've got some time. I'd like to stick around and help, if you don't mind my company a little longer," Lando said.

   "Of course, of course," Hondo said. "Anything for my new friends."

   Steve narrowed his eyes again, although Tony wasn't sure why since he'd seen Empire Strikes Back too. "And… no offense. Mr. Calrissian, but what's in it for you?"

   "I don't like it when people hurt kids," he said quietly.

   "Okay," Tony said, "I'm just gonna reiterate that Emily's not a kid. I mean, she's my baby, she'll always be my baby, but she's twenty-five and she can kick you in the face from a standing start."

   "I taught her that," Natasha said, rather smugly. "She could also break a man's neck with her thighs. At least theoretically."

   "See?" Tony gestured at Natasha. "See? Also, Addie will just fuck you up."

   Thor nodded, solemnly. "Indeed, the Miss Starks are intimidating."

   "Still," Lando said. "At least one kid is in danger, even if she can hit back. I may be a lot of things, but I'm not a monster. That satisfy you, Rogers?"

   Thor straightened up to his considerable height and glared. "Captain Rogers," he said, "is worthy of being addressed by his title."

   Tony was ninety, ninety-five percent sure that Thor was just fucking with Lando, but he wasn't completely sure, so he was glad when Steve said, "It's fine. And sure, why not."

   "Sorry about that," Lando said, with an apologetic shrug. "I would've used it if I'd known it. Any luck, Hondo?"

   "Three ships came by around the right time," the pirate said. "One at about six hours, one at five, and one at four and a half."

   Thor settled down into a glare, but… no, the corner of his mouth was twitching a little. Yeah, he was fucking with the guy. Anyway, Tony had other things to worry about.

   "What kind of ships?" Tony asked, walking over to the scanners. He didn't know what he was looking at but he could guess. "Who do they belong to?"

   "Well, this first one--they are not my friends. Star Destroyer. The...Chimaera, I think."

   Tony frowned. He knew that name… right, Zahn. "When is this again?" he asked. "What's blown up most recently?"

   "I love that you track timelines through explosions," Steve murmured. Disturbingly, he sounded sincere, but Steve had weird taste in men, obviously.

   "There was a big one out near Yavin earlier," Hondo said. "I don't know what it is yet, I'm hoping my friends will tell me. This second one here--ah, false ID. It may take us some time to identify."

   "I'll work on that," Lando said. "I can at least figure out who made the fake transponder for you."

   The big one near Yavin was probably the Death Star, which meant the Emperor was still around, which meant it probably wasn't Grand Admiral Thrawn or Captain Pellaeon, which meant Tony really hoped his girls weren't on the Star Destroyer. "What kind of ship?" he asked.

   "Midsized freighter," Lando answered. "Looks like it's--"

   "Aha!" Hondo said, jabbing a finger at the third ship. "I know that ship! That is the Waterfall! They are my friends! Or, well, my friend's brother, who is almost my friend."

   Tony snorted. Steve choked. Thor looked vaguely hunted, and even Natasha looked vaguely amused. "Emphasis on almost," he said. "Who's your friend?"

   "Why, Kenobi, of course. I should call him, we haven't spoken in months--"

   "He's been trying to call you for an hour, Captain," one of the other Weequay said. "Our comms haven't been working too well since--"

   "Yes, yes, fine," he said, waving his hand in annoyance.

   "Uh," Tony said, because if Kenobi was who he thought he was… "Maybe you better call him back." Because he was like, 95% sure that Kenobi had died on the Death Star earlier.

   Judging from Steve's expression he'd just figured that out too. Thor just looked blank— Tony made a mental note to pick Star Wars for the next movie night— and Natasha kept her poker face as per usual.

   "He's hailing us again, Captain," the same Weequay said.

   "Kenobi has always had the best timing," Hondo said, and wandered over to the comm system. He pushed a few buttons and a grainy, wavery hologram of a bearded man appeared. He could very well have been Obi-Wan, but it was low-quality and hard to tell. "Kenobi, my friend! It has been too long."

   "Hond--I need--headed to--" There was some kind of interference or bad connection, but that was definitely Obi-Wan Kenobi's voice.

   "Huh," Tony said, intelligently.

   "Huh," Steve agreed, making Tony feel better about himself.

   "Kenobi, Kenobi, I can't hear you," Hondo said, gesturing dramatically at his ears. "Call me later." He hung up. "Anyway. If Kenobi and Skywalker picked up your girls, they're fine. I know those two almost as well as I know my men. The adventures we've had! Twenty years and more of them!"

   Tony stared at him for a moment before he remembered that the faceplate was down and thus it wasn't having the effect he wanted. "So… you didn't ask him if he had my girls because...."

   "I couldn't hear him anyway," Hondo said. "But he said 'need' and 'headed to,' so I think he needs a favor from Hondo, and is coming here. These conversations are much better face to face, yes?"

   "No," Tony said, "they're better when I know if my kids are okay," but there wasn't much he could do about it now. Not yet, anyway. "When's he going to get here?"

   "Hmmm, well..." Hondo glanced at the pirate manning the comm station.

   "Signal didn't come from far," she said. "Looks like he just dropped out of hyperspace. Should be here in a half-hour or so, on the outside. Depending on which ship he borrowed."

   "Fine," Tony said, and because he was a scientist and an impatient bastard, started a clock running inside his HUD because why not. "Half an hour."

   "In the meantime," Natasha said, "may I suggest contingency plans? How might one take down a Star Destroyer, for example?"

   Somehow Tony suspected she wasn't asking out of idle curiosity. It was something to do with the glee on her face.

   "I have never tried," Hondo admitted. "Shame, such a shame. But you can ask Kenobi when he gets here! He's done such things."

   "Are you taking it out from the outside or from inside?" Lando asked absently, still working on the fake ID for the third ship.

   "Either," Natasha said, and moved over to him. "Explain."

   Tony would have been intimidated by her looming, but then, Lando hadn't seen what she could do. Yet. He did anticipate Natasha beating up someone, if only because she was bored and hadn't been able to.

   "From outside, depends on what kind of firepower you're packing, and whether or not you're alone," Lando said. "From inside..." He looked over at her, and quirked a smile. "I'm guessing you're used to infiltration tactics. So, I'd get the specs and then sneak on board in a stolen uniform--you're too short to pass as a stormtrooper, but if you get a low-level army or navy officer uniform, you could probably bluff your way into the engine room and disable the hyperdrive. You'd probably only get to one vital system before you got caught, and that's where you'd want to start. That or the shields, but there are fewer redundancies on the hyperdrive. You'd still need someone on the outside to finish the job, and probably an extraction team, but you could do it. Corporal or something similar would probably be best for your cover. High enough that no one bothers you, low enough that people don't actually look to you for commands."

   Natasha thought about it for a moment. "Clint and I could do it in an hour," she said, after a minute. "Less if we had a lightsaber or repulsors, more if we were working with just his arrows and my knives."

   "A whole hour?" Tony asked, not quite joking. "You're slipping."

   "It's an unfamiliar ship," Natasha said, serenely.

   "Plus, those things are big," Lando said. "And your best infiltration points aren't all that close to the engine room, because the Empire's stupid about some things, but that ain't one of them. And if the rumors about the Super Star Destroyers they're building are true, those'll be even harder."

   "God<i>damn</i> I want one of those," Tony said.

   "No," Steve said, without looking around. He'd been taking lessons from Pepper, clearly.

   "All right," Lando said. "I know the guy who made this ID. He works all over the map, but given they were meeting up with the Waterfall, I'm guessing they're Alliance. Either that, or Skywalker's got an underworld contact that isn't you," he added, nodding to Hondo.

   The pirate looked scandalized. "Such a betrayal! I would never think it of him! But, then again, it is good business. On the other hand, Skywalker has never had a good business sense..."

   "Skywalker?" Steve asked, frowning. "Wait a minute..."

   "No," Tony interrupted, quickly. "I don't care. I don't care yet. Let's find the girls first and then we can care, okay?"

   "Okay," Steve said, "but I will care."

   "Fine," Tony said, waving a hand. "We can absolutely care then."

   Lando shrugged, and turned back to the third ship. "I'll keep working on this, see if I can confirm it's Alliance or not."

   "And if it is, we can make a deal with them!" Hondo said. "I like making deals with the Alliance. Nice people. Not much money, though."

   "Money I got," Tony said. "Money is not really a problem here."

   "Well," Steve said, thoughtfully, but he cut himself off almost immediately. "Hey, what's that?" He gestured at the scopes.

   "Looks like an X-wing," Lando said.

   "Might be Kenobi," Hondo added. "Is he hailing us again?"

   "Trying to, Captain," the pirate monitoring the comms said. "It's all choppy, though."

   Did Obi-Wan Kenobi fly an X-wing? Tony honestly couldn't remember because at that point in the movie he'd been yelling about the problems of fires in space until Emily kicked him in the ankle. "What's wrong with the comms?"

   "Oh, they keep breaking, ever since that mess last year on Ordo Plutonia," Hondo said, waving a hand.

   Gah, it was driving him nuts. Tony got down on his knees and peered under the console for a minute, before he held a hand out and said, "Screwdriver. Did anyone look at this? The wiring's all fucked up and crossways but I can fix it." Something else to think about beside his children, missing… yeah, okay, wiring.

   "Better do it," Steve advised Hondo. "He'll just tear it apart otherwise."

   Hondo paused for a second. "Well, all right then." He clapped his hands twice. "Come, come, get the shiny metal man a screwdriver!"

   One of the pirates complied, dropping one into Tony's outstretched hand.

   "Thanks," Tony said absently, already poking around the wiring. Oh, yeah, some of them were just cross-plugged. It looked like… "Did this get thrown around or something? Because it looks like somebody just plugged these back in any which way."

   "Uh, more or less?" Hondo said. "Why, did we do it wrong?"

   "Way wrong," Tony said. It might have come out really muffled, he wasn't sure. "It's like you screwed up the whole AC/DC circuit except that's not what's going on at all."

   He barely heard Steve tell Hondo, "He's like this. Just nod and smile."

   "Ah, I'm good at that!" Hondo said, then laughed again.

   "X-wing transponder matches Alliance codes," the pirate on comms said. "Odds are good it's Kenobi. Should I let him land, boss?"

   "Yes, yes," Hondo said. "Let him come!"

   Tony tweaked a couple of wires, swapped another pair, screwed one loose nut back into place and then came out again. "Okay, try it now, should be good." He absently stuck the screwdriver in his gauntlet sleeve.

   Hondo pushed a couple of buttons, and a much-clearer hologram appeared. It was definitely Obi-Wan Kenobi--but he looked younger than he should have, if the Death Star just blew, by at least a decade. "Hondo. I'm just coming into your docking bay. Shall we hold off until I can see you face-to-face?"

   Interesting, Tony thought, staring at the hologram. Amazing what twenty years of not being on a desert planet would do to a man.

   "Yes, yes," Hondo said. "I was just making sure the shiny metal man fixed my comms. I will see you soon!"

   "...Hondo--"

   He flipped a switch, cutting the connection.

   "Am I going to be shiny metal man forever?" Tony asked. "I ask purely out of curiosity, since I do have a name and you can use it, weird pirate man."

   "You are as soon as I tell Clint about it," Natasha said, sounding annoyingly pleased. Tony flipped her off and then hid behind Steve.

   "Well, you are a shiny metal man," Hondo said. "And I am a weird pirate man, too!"

   "So everyone is pleased!" boomed Thor. Tony jumped, having either forgotten that Thor was there or lost track of him or SOMETHING. "This is excellent! You may call me mighty lightning man."

   "Mighty lightning man?" Hondo asked. "Why are you the mighty lightning man, eh?"

   Thor grinned, and raised Mjolnir, but then apparently thought better of it before anyone said anything. "Alas, I cannot demonstrate in here."

   "He'd fry us all," Tony said. "Well. You all. I'm grounded."

   Steve choked at that, and then said, "No you're not."

   Tony flipped him off too.

   Hondo looked almost as disappointed as Thor did. "Some other time, then, yes?"

   "When we are not surrounded by metal," Thor said, and bowed. "It would be my pleasure, Weird Pirate Man."

   Tony could hear the capitals.

   "I look forward to it, Mighty Lightning Man," Hondo said, with an extravagant bow of his own. His monkey-parrot thing chittered and danced a little bit on his shoulder.

   "Oh, my God," Tony said, to no one in particular. "Thor's made a friend."

[inawickedlittletown]

Walking The Wire (129/?)

Summary: Tony Stark always knew about Peter Parker. He didn’t know that Peter was going to get superpowers and become Spider-Man, but he always knew about Peter because Peter was his son.

This will span from pre-Iron Man up through the rest of the MCU (eventually including Infinity War) and will be for the most part canon compliant except where I’ve taken some liberties and interpreted canon a certain way.

Pairings: Pepper/Tony, Tony/Steve (endgame), Tony/Mary (past)

A/N: If you want me to tag you when I post new chapters let me know. This fic is also on AO3

I used Collider’s MCU timeline to stay canon and the title of this fic is an Imagine Dragons song that is just so fitting for Peter and Tony

@findmeinthestarss

Masterpost

Chapter One Hundred Twenty Eight

If he were being honest, Tony hadn’t expected to be rescued. Nebula seemed to be of the same mind even if she tried not to show it to Tony. With the ship just drifting and their oxygen getting down to dangerous levels, he and Nebula weren’t doing much but sitting around. Nebula told him about space and wormholes and how much there was to see. She told him about the Guardians of the Galaxy even while making it clear that she wasn’t one of them but how her sister despite all her past misdeeds had found a place there. She had found love.

“Starlord,” Tony said.

Nebula scoffed at the name. “Quill. He named himself that. It’s ridiculous.”

Everyone one of them was gone now -- dusted. All but two whose whereabouts she didn’t know.

“They must have taken the emergency pod,” she said.

Things might have been different if they had that pod. They might have been able to make it to Earth on it. He remembered when she discovered it was gone and how angry she’d been.

“Do you think they got your message?” Nebula asked.

“I connected to the satellite. My guess is that Friday delivered it. It’s a matter of them coming to find us now and doing it before…” He waved his hand.

Nebula nodded.

By Tony’s estimation he had sent the message about an hour earlier. Even if there was a delay with the message arriving to the satellite or the satellite and Friday’s communication and then the delivery of the message to whoever was left, Tony didn’t expect that the delay would be more than ten or fifteen minutes. But then there was them figuring out how to find them and get to them and that would take more time.

Space was kind of beautiful in a way -- it was still scary, but there was a beauty to it. It was dark and so so huge but Tony could understand why it had such an appeal for so many. There were probably countless people down on Earth who would have loved to have the view they had. Maybe they wouldn’t have wanted to be in their situation exactly, but they would liked the view of the stars.

Tony stood up to look from the front of the ship, taking it all in and trying to come to peace with it. He was going to die in space. It was kind of poetic in a way, to think that he’d die in the place he had always sort of expected to. The last thing he expected was to see was one of his quinjets. He gasped and laughed in quick succession.

“What happened?”

“I guess they got my message,” Tony said.

Peter didn’t feel hungry or tired or much of anything at all. He just kind of was. It didn’t really seem to matter. They existed without existing in the weird orange space.

“Who was that guy?” Bucky asked, motioning back towards Strange.

“He’s a wizard,” Peter said. “Doctor Strange. He looked at all possible realities and whatever ended up happening -- it’s supposed to lead us to beating Thanos.”

“Big purple guy,” Bucky said and then shook his head.

Peter nodded. “That one. So, Doctor Strange had the Time Stone and he got captured by an alien so we went after him. Didn’t really matter because he gave him the stone in exchange for my dad’s life.”

“And then he came and took the stone from Vision,” Bucky said. “He won. So, what does this wizard think is going to happen next?”

“He gave it to Thanos after seeing the possible futures,” Peter said.

“Right. That makes a lick of sense. I’m not sure I trust him.”

Peter shrugged. All he knew was that Strange had seen the future so he must have known exactly how it was all going to pan out including this -- them being in this weird orange limbo and his dad left behind on Titan with all of them gone. But if Strange had known that he himself was going to turn to dust then it was likely that it wasn’t going to be permanent.

When he told Bucky, Bucky just grunted. “Hope so.”

“Me too. My dad was -- Thanos stabbed him. I hope he’s okay.”

“He’s Tony Stark. Of course he will be,” Bucky said.

“Yeah,” Peter said and sighed.

It felt like hours before Rocket started a video call with them. Steve had been rooted to the couch since Tony’s message had arrived. He’d listened to it too many times to count while waiting just because it meant hearing Tony’s voice.

Slowly, the others had all gotten back to what they were doing. Bruce had gone to the lab and Steve didn’t know if he was keeping busy or actually working on something. Natasha had mumbled something about calling Pepper and then Rhodey had prepared Steve a sandwich, excusing himself as he suited up and left for the compound. Thor had given him a pat on the back before he wandered off. Steve just stayed on the couch with K-9 at his side and he didn’t know what to do. Or if he could do anything. Mostly he felt useless and despondent and waiting on Rocket was almost painful. He had lost Bucky and Peter and that was enough to send him into a depressed spiral but then there was Tony. Tony who was in space and who may or may not make it back home.

When the video feed finally came up, Steve could see just the inside of the quinjet and then a few seconds later Rocket came into view.

“I have him and my ship,” Rocket said without preamble. “I’m going to tow them down to Earth. I’ll need a place to land. That tower of yours won’t do.”

“He’s -- Tony’s okay?”

Rocket nodded. He seemed more distant than before and it was then that Steve realized he’d mentioned his ship.

“Is -- are your friends with him?”

“Only one,” Rocket said and left it at that. Steve bowed his head.  “We’ll be there in an hour or two, Captain. Where am I going?”

“The Avengers facility. The coordinates should already be on the GPS. I -- thank you. Thank you.”

Rocket gave a nod and without a goodbye just shut off the video feed and Steve didn’t know what to think or feel. Tony was coming home. Rocket had found him. For the first time since realizing that Thanos won, Steve began to feel some hope. Tony was alive. He was coming home.

He had Friday send a message to everyone with the news and it began to feel more and more real. Rocket had said an hour or two. He needed to get to the compound.

“Rocket found him?”

Steve found Bruce was back. He was wearing a lab coat and he looked a little messy, but he seemed just as hopeful as Steve.

“Yes,” Steve said and couldn’t help his smile. Bruce returned it.

It was a rocky entrance into Earth’s atmosphere and Tony kept himself strapped to one of the seats as they went but even then it felt like he could go flying at any moment. His knuckles were turning white from how hard he held onto the armrests.

When the quinjet had called into the ship earlier, Tony had expected a familiar voice of a fellow Avenger. Instead, the voice was gruff and belonging to someone that Tony didn’t know. His excitement had deflated a little until Nebula perked up.

“Rocket?” she’d asked. “Is that you?”

“Yeah. It’s me. Anybody else aboard? Some guy named Tony Stark perhaps? Or...or the others?”

Nebula’s lips were pressed together hard and she winced before answering. “Stark is here. The rest of them -- they’re gone. Turned to dust.”

“Oh,” Rocket said. “So is Groot. Not that you probably care.”

“I liked the tree,” Nebula answered.

Tony let Nebula deal with Rocket. It took a while to attach the Benatar to the quinjet but somehow, Rocket managed it and when they heard from him again he told them to strap in and then they began to move. Their oxygen levels were still quite low and it seemed like they were being rescued just in time. Tony had no idea how they had managed it so quickly or how Rocket had ended up with one of his quinjets but he wasn’t complaining.

After they crossed Earth’s atmosphere and the ship stopped shaking as much, Tony finally felt like he was going to be safe and that only intensified with how much he could see of his home planet.

“Your planet is very odd,” Nebula said. “Very green.”

Tony laughed. “It’s gorgeous is what it is,” Tony said.

The ship had enough power that Nebula could control their landing to an extent which meant that it was smoother than it could have been if they were just tugged along by the quinjet. Tony still felt a bit jostled when they landed.

“We made it,” he whispered as soon as they stopped moving.

“We did,” Nebula said.

Tony groaned. His chest hurt and his lungs burned and he was parched. None of that really mattered and he hadn’t been paying it much mind while they were in space but now it was almost like he could feel all of it again. It felt relevant. He unstrapped himself with shaking hands, but Nebula was there to help him to his feet and then she wrapped an arm around his waist and together they made it to the back of the ship.

The wait was sort of killing him. He and Bruce had gathered anyone that was still in the tower and flown a quinjet to the compound. The others they had sent messages to. Steve had called Pepper directly, letting her know what was happening. He was sure she’d want to see Tony herself and Tony would want to see her as well. It had been surreal to get the message and then to have Rocket out there actually find Tony and now to know that they were coming home.

Thor boarded the quinjet slightly more uplift but still there was an aura of regret and grief about him that wouldn’t leave. It probably surrounded all of them. Steve knew he wasn’t faring much better. Knowing he’d be seeing Tony soon made him lighter but it didn’t change what had happened. It didn’t change that Peter was gone.

Steve couldn’t stop touching his ring. For a while he hadn’t been able to look at it. He’d been tempted to take it off even to save him the grief of not knowing if that was the last piece of Tony he would ever have. Now, it was a promise of the future again. His eyes wouldn’t leave it. Their future was so uncertain, but for Steve the ring and Tony -- those were the things he could hold on to.

The compound was still in need of some cleanup from the last time they were there and the fight with the aliens. It was a worry for another day. It was lucky that the main building was still in tact. Rhodey was waiting for them when they arrived, looking just on the side of anxious. He clapped Steve’s back when he reached him.

“Friday is keeping an eye on the skies,” Rhodey said.

“Good,” Steve said.

Rhodey looked relieved and anxious all at once. They couldn’t be sure that everything would go well. They didn’t know what state Tony might be in but he was coming home and that mattered more. Everything else could be dealt with.

“Do we have a medical wing?” Bruce asked. “He’s at the very least dehydrated. If there is no one else available then I’ll have to--”

“We do, and you’re right we don’t have anyone else,” Rhodey said. “Anyone left was sent to help at hospitals. Lots of missing doctors and a lot of casualties.”

“Right,” Bruce said. “I -- I want to be prepared.”

They were all hoping that a lot of medical assistance wouldn’t be needed, but none of them knew what had happened in space. Steve and Rhodey went with him to the medical wing but Thor stayed outside, looking up at the sky. Inside, Bruce prepared what he could. He was ready for anything.

It was almost an hour before Natasha and Pepper arrived.

“Thank you for the call,” Pepper said to Steve.

“Of course,” Steve said and hugged her. Her eyes looked rimmed red.

“I -- you said it was only Tony? I didn’t -- I didn’t want to ask over the phone…”

“He -- he was dusted,” Steve said. It was hard to get the words out and Pepper gasped and sobbed.

“No,” she said.

Steve gave a short nod. Pepper gripped his hand and the next few moments felt like they were going on and on forever.

When Friday alerted them to the quinjet coming in through the atmosphere, Steve felt both relieved and worried. He almost couldn’t believe it. They headed back outside and Steve had no idea how much time passed until the quinjet and the Benatar came into view and both ships landed just a little harder than necessary but unscathed.

Steve’s focus was on the alien ship and as the dust began to settle around it and the quinjet, the ship opened at the back. Steve rushed forward and he was the first to see Tony leaning on a blue alien woman but walking off the ship.

“Tony,” Steve said and Tony looked up. His brown eyes met Steve’s and his lips quirked up. Steve’s heart skipped a beat. Tony was home.

Chapter One Hundred Thirty

[forevercloudnine]

pre-new 52 scarebat ship meme

 (I actually have no idea what to call this period of comics. The dc wiki calls this the “New Earth” universe... it’s like, everything after Jason Todd was retconned out of being a circus acrobat up to Flashpoint. Anyway like a month ago I asked @heroes-etc​ to send me questions for this version of scarebat from this ship meme but then forgot that I did it because I got distracted by other ships. Sorry Jonathan...)

4. Who can’t keep their hands to themselves?

Bruce does DO physical affection — I mean, how many comic panels do we even have of him making out with Catwoman on rooftops — but he’s not especially forthcoming with it. I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say that his love interests are more likely to instigate contact than he is, especially when that love interest is a villain like Selina or Talia (can you even IMAGINE him trying to take them off guard in a fight by grabbing their face for a kiss? Because I cannot).

He does occasionally instigate affection with his children/proteges, though usually it’s in instances where they obviously need comfort. Bruce isn’t always great at handling complicated emotional situations, but grief and trauma is something he understands very intimately, and he never hesitates to physically reassure people who are in that kind of pain.

In situations where someone isn’t in the active process of being traumatized, he’s less forward with physical affection. That doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll reject it if it’s instigated — depending on who you are, of course. I’m guessing he wouldn’t put up with hugs from random members of the Justice League. Superman is his best friend and he would probably try to wiggle out of 90% of Kal hugs if doing so was physically possible. Most of his loved ones don’t really spring physical affection on him unless they need it or it’s an especially emotional moment, however. It’s not really Bruce’s primary love language. 

Jonathan seems even less physically affectionate than Bruce, though obviously doesn’t have a lot of opportunity to demonstrate how he feels either way. Master of Fear offers the only example of him expressing explicitly romantic affection that I know of (unless you count his terrorizing Becky Albright in New Year’s Evil as physical affection, which... might be how he’s thinking of it...?), and it’s entirely instigated by Sherry Squire. He does ask her to the Halloween party, but she’s the one who takes him down to the furnace room for some “one-on-one” time and tells him to kiss her. 

He also notably does not actually get a chance to kiss her, mainly because the whole thing was a prank meant to humiliate him. This might be why he doesn’t try to instigate anything similar with his next crush, Dr. Linda Friitawa (again, unless you count Becky Albright, but I can’t find New Year’s Evil to read anywhere so my only knowledge of his interaction with her comes from Tumblr. I’m like 80% sure he was supposed to be interested in her romantically, but asking someone to do supervillainy with you isn’t the most direct way to express attraction, so I’m taking that as more obliqueness from Jonathan).

He never expresses any direct romantic interest in Linda, but at the very least he clearly cares about her more than he cares for most people, since he, like. Defends her in conversation and apologizes to her for things that aren’t even his fault. Which means a lot, coming from a sociopath with no regard for human life. They do hold hands at one point, but Linda reaches out to him first, and he waits to see if she’s going to back away from his reciprocated touch before he reaches for her other hand. 

He never instigates anything further with her, possibly out of fear of rejection. Unfortunately, it turns out that this was a good call, because Linda was only pretending to be nice to him while Penguin was paying her to experiment on Jonathan without his knowledge. When Batman figures out what they’re doing, she immediately fucks off and starts dating Black Mask.

Even more unfortunately, his 45 seconds of hand holding with Backstabby McMad Scientist is probably the only mutual physical affection Jonathan has ever experienced in his entire life, so honestly I have no idea if he would be more into it as a concept if it was offered to him more often. He’s clearly willing to return physical contact when it’s initiated by someone else, so maybe it is something he would seek out in an actual relationship? He DOES get handsy with Bruce when he has Batman tied up sometimes. 

9. What is the most embarrassing thing they have done in front of each other?

Trip out on fear toxin, both of them, hands down. There are few things more embarrassing than, as Jonathan aptly describes it, being “reduced to whimpering quivers” in front of your enemy. Especially an enemy who’s presumably jotting down notes on your worst fears, since Batman/Scarecrow fights tend to just be competitions in who’s more frightening.

11. What do they hide from one another?

I mean, obligatory mention of the fact that Bruce hides things from absolutely everyone (with the possible exception of Alfred, because Bruce trusts him as completely as he is capable of trusting anyone, and also because it’s really hard to hide things from a parent whose involved in every aspect of your life and already knew you before you developed your pathological need to obfuscate your feelings and intentions).

As Wonder Woman pretty aptly describes during the Tower of Babel arc, even Bruce’s closest allies are never going to hear the full story from him. So it’s deeply unlikely he’d ever be 100% truthful with a supervillain, even if they got close AND Jonathan reformed. 

But it’s notable that Jonathan’s fear toxin has actually given him a more honest look into Bruce’s psyche than he would ever purposefully give to people who aren’t close family members. And by “close family members” I again pretty much just mean Alfred. Unfortunately for Bruce, nothing forces emotional transparency like mind altering drugs. Fortunately for Jonathan, nothing forces emotional transparency like mind altering drugs! Not that I’m recommending that anyone drug a romantic partner into being honest with them. But Jonathan is a trained psychiatrist, so I assume his psychological know-how combined with insights gleaned from the dozens of “sessions” he’s had with Batman in the past would leave him more prepared than most to decipher the mystery that is Bruce Wayne. (@heroes-etc: riddler is SEETHING.)

Jonathan meanwhile is more than capable of putting together a clandestine scheme, but in respect to himself he’s actually pretty straightforward. Though his driving motivation in this continuity gets more and more complicated over time, from the early 90’s “I just like fear” to the early 2000’s “my Granny tortured me with birds when I was a child and now I’m obsessed with inspiring the same fear and submission she forced on me onto others,” what doesn’t change is his willingness to monologue about it to anyone who’s listening.

Also, anything that Jonathan is unable or unwilling to go into detail on, Bruce is more than capable of puzzling out himself. In Scarecrow: Year One he successfully tracks down Jonathan’s old home to recover and read through Granny Keeney’s diary, and after Scarecrow’s Master of Fear origin was published, it’s clear that Bruce has done his research on Jonathan’s childhood. There’s even a (presumably unintentionally) hilarious scene where Bruce pauses mid-rescue of a man that Jonathan has kidnapped and traumatized with fear toxin to lecture him on having bullied Jon in high school.

Is this really the time, Bruce???

(@heroes-etc: oh 100% he nailed that timing.)

13. When do they realise they should get together?

Well, circling back to Tower of Babel, it’s revealed when Ra’s al Ghul has Talia steal Bruce’s contingency plans for defeating the Justice League that Bruce has “borrowed” Scarecrow’s fear toxin in case he has to take down Aquaman.

This was back when Scarecrow had a number of different toxins that induced different phobias, or made people hallucinate hyper-specific nightmare scenarios (such as “being eaten alive by roaches from the inside,” for some terrible reason). Batman notes in his contingency files that Scarecrow has already done the work for him; presumably Jonathan had already designed a formula to induce hydrophobia, so all Bruce had to do was steal a vial of it from a crime scene.

(The sentence “Why not make him incapacitate himself... perhaps through fear?” alone is like 90% of why I think these men would get along like burlap on fire if they ever actually cooperated on something. Also, unrelated, but the polaroid of Jonathan he has in the Aquaman file is weirdly adorable.)

Bruce’s plan for Arthur is incredibly effective, and notably also Bruce’s only contingency that isn’t either inherently lethal or a ruthlessly sociopathic betrayal of emotional vulnerabilities that had been revealed to him in trust and friendship (RIP Kyle Rayner).

(Notably, Bruce’s plans for Kyle and several other leaguers directly involve using their worst fears against them, even without a fear toxin conveniently tailored for this purpose. Bruce just really likes using fear as a weapon against people.)

After Tower of Babel, Bruce obviously needed to create new contingencies, since the whole point is that they were secret plans that no one could see coming. In canon, Bruce goes on to create the A.I. satellite Brother Eye for this purpose (which backfires even worse than his first set of contingency plans, because of course it does). But I think an interesting alternative could have been Bruce tapping Jonathan for more toxin strands tailored to taking down the Justice League. If Bruce Wayne offered to pay Scarecrow’s way out of Arkham in order to develop formulas that could neutralize the world’s most powerful superheroes, is there any way that Jonathan would turn him down? I mean, obviously he would plan on betraying Wayne at some point, and Bruce would similarly be working against Jonathan’s best interests. But maybe if they set aside their “who’s scarier” dick measuring contest to work together for once, they could come to recognize their shared passion: scaring the shit of people.

Also, the Jonathan in this continuity really likes books. And you know what’s a reliably sustainable source of books that can’t be confiscated by the authorities? Dating Bruce Wayne. The manor alone probably has an insane amount of rare books that have been hoarded by his family over the years. It’s like a weird reversal of the Beauty and the Beast, where the rude rich guy who gives a library to the love interest he may or may not have technically kidnapped is the pretty one.

21. Where do they get nervous about going with one another?

If they were dating, I’m guessing Jonathan wouldn’t want to go anywhere in public with Bruce at all. Bruce Wayne is a celebrity bachelor, and celebrity bachelors get a lot of attention, and people who take celebrity bachelors off the market get a lot of NEGATIVE attention. The public reaction to Bruce settling into a committed relationship with anyone would be the kind of weirdly resentful gossipy judgement that the girlfriends of famous princes or actors or musicians always get from tabloids and entertainment television, but in Jonathan’s case it would be a million times worse. Not just because he’s a supervillain, because if there’s any town that would expect its most eligible bachelor to eventually date a supervillain, it’s Gotham. But more specifically because “ugly social outcast” is one of Scarecrow’s most enduring character traits. Not exactly the traditional trophy wife. And though Jonathan’s Scarecrow identity seems to distance him from a lot of the shame he suffered growing up, I’m guessing that the kind of spiteful vitriol that would follow him anywhere he accompanied Bruce would at the least bring back some very unwanted memories.

Bruce probably doesn’t have the same discomfort Jonathan would with being seen together in public. He doesn’t care if people think Bruce Wayne is insane or lacking in judgement as long as they don’t think he’s Batman, and I’m sure he’d find a way to spin “dating a man who prefers to dress exclusively in burlap” into something appropriately characteristic of playboy idiocy. But while he'd definitely respect Jonathan's wishes to stay out of the public sphere, he would probably enjoy any opportunity to bring Scarecrow into Gotham high society, since his presence would definitely shake up a party, and Bruce is generally extremely bored at any social event where he doesn’t have anyone to snark with. And with Jonathan’s scathing wit as entertainment, Bruce might one day fulfill Alfred’s wish and actually make it through an intermission sometime.

I’d say that Bruce would be nervous about taking Jonathan out for “field research,” but I’m sure it would be one of Scarecrow’s requirements for any long term collaboration, so it’s something that he would have to get used to pretty quickly. He would probably endeavor to keep Jonathan away from anything that could retrigger his less healthy behaviors. On the other hand, it’s not like Bruce does that for himself, so it stands to reason that he probably wouldn’t be able to successfully control Jonathan in that regard either. 

It doesn’t help that one of Jonathan’s primary motivations in villainy is his childhood, which is... exactly the same thing that Bruce is fixated on. A significant portion of Scarecrow: Year One is the two of them waxing poetic about how similar they are in this regard. 

Relating to this, even though it might be a terrible idea, I don’t think Bruce would be able to resist encouraging Jonathan to reconnect with his mom. Bruce would never recommend for someone like Cassandra to seek out a relationship with her father, but if someone he cares about has a LIVING parent who WASN’T abusive to them? It seems unlikely that Bruce wouldn’t advocate for reconciliation. Jonathan’s dad obviously never cared about the teenage girl he knocked up or their bastard child, but Karen Keeney is a different story. DC Holiday Special ‘09 makes it clear that Jonathan was taken away from her against her will, and she’s spent a significant portion of her life wracked by guilt imagining what the woman who abused her was doing to her son.  

Ultimately she attempts to commit suicide because she feels personally responsible for every terrible thing her son has ever done, which is tragic because really she’s the only member of the Keeney family completely blameless in the creation of the Scarecrow. In Scarecrow: Year One Jonathan clearly resents her for leaving him and moving on to have another baby that she actually did keep, which I would call a really paranoid case of jumping to conclusions if it didn’t seem extremely likely that Granny Keeney told him his mother didn’t want him and left him to be tortured on purpose.

(Side note, it is REALLY weird how young Karen Keeney is depicted in Scarecrow: Year One. At times her son looks older than she is, and it doesn’t help that her second born child is an infant for some reason. Even if Jonathan is only thirty years old here, then unless she had him at younger than fourteen, she should already be in her mid-forties. Why did she only have a second child so late in life? The implication with her abusive husband is that she ended up getting trapped in a bad relationship for survival when her family kicked her out as a teenager for disgracing the family by having Jonathan. It would make way more sense for her child with him to be at least in elementary school. Also the scene would have been way more interesting if Scarecrow’s sister was old enough to talk.)

Thankfully Deadman manages to convince Karen to hold on to life long enough for someone to call 911, and she ends up surviving the suicide attempt. But were Jonathan ever to reform, it seems like reconciliation would be really healthy for both of them, since miraculously Karen still seems to care about Jonathan despite everything he’s put her through, and they’re both clearly still suffering from the after effects of Mary Keeney’s abuse. 

Bruce would be enthusiastic about this prospect for obvious reasons, although he would presumably still be nervous about the possibility of everything going terribly wrong. And even if everything went perfectly right, he would STILL be nervous, because everytime Jonathan goes to see his mother there’s a chance that she will mention the time that she kissed Batman full on the mouth. And that is not information you would ever want your psychologist boyfriend to know, unless you want to be mocked with Freudian buzzwords for the rest of your natural life. 

(...This would also count as a thing that Bruce hides from Jonathan.)