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linkspooky · 2 years

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Your top comic book characters?

So, this might be a surprise considering the usual content of my blog but I am an avid comic book fan. I have read a lot of comics (teen titans) and have a lot of opinions (Teen Titans related) and a pretty comprehensive knowledge (about the Teen Titans).

So, list of top five favorite comic book characters (My Favorite Teen Titans).

#5 Dick Grayson / NightWing

Ahem. I hate the bat family. Anyway *Takes a picture with me and the Bestie Dick Grayson*. One popular misconception about comic book characters is that they never change or develop and remain static because of either comic book continuity snarl, or the fact that characters tend to get handed off to multiple auhors. That’s actually false, because a lot of comic book characters, especially the younger ones, are allowed to grow up. Character development, thy name is Dick Grayson.

The reason I joke about hating the bat family is all of Dick’s character development comes from when he steps outside the role of Robin, and struggles to be his own person especially in regards to his solos and the relationships he’s formed with the Teen Titans (you should read Teen Titans it’s a good comic). One thing I think good comic book writing nails is that these characters tend to develop a rich subtext, there is more going on then just the outer shell of the person you see. LIke, they’re comic book heroes, they wear masks, they project heroic outside personas and struggle to be humans underneath it. It’s a definite thing.

Dick Grayson has a tendency to be seen not just by readers but also by the people around him in his life as the prodigy, the success, and this has led to kind of a conflict between his external (what Dick projects) and his internal (who he is inside). Basically, I read Dick as someone who is more comfortable functioning as a hero, then as a human being.

Which results in Dick constantly overworking himself and taking too much on his plate in order to try to live up to the image he creates of himself. Hero. Team leader. Mentor. Supprotive friend. Family member. Boyfriend. THey’re all like roles for Dick, and I think deep down he thinks he has to earn those things rather than them being given to him which is what leads to his habit of both isolating himself and overworking himself in the first place. Dick Grayson is a circus child through and through, he’s a natural performer who wears the tights a little too well. As for adaptations of his character, I prefer the 2003 Teen Titans cartoon take on him to the BTAS because overworking himself and isolating himself from his loved ones is an important phase in his development that I feel like a lot of other adaptations skip over because they want to get to light hearted and jokey night wing.

#4 Koriand’r / Starfire

Part of what I love about female comic book characters is the good ones are never boring, Lois Lane is just as interesting a character as Clark Kent and that’s a statement I’ll die defending. There’s a lot about Kory that is so unique especially in the original comic run that created her, she’s the “heart” of the team, the character that runs on pure emotions, but she’s not soft in any sense of the word, she’s belligerent and warlike. Starfire is one of those few alien characters who genuinely feels alien because the way she processes her emotions are just so different from the humans around her, she feels everything up to eleven, love, anger, hapiness, sorrow.

Starfire is at times, irrational, and hard to reason with, you know just like emotions are. There are a few people who have a problem with her portrayal in the 2003 cartoon, though my personal theory is that she’s not so much out of character is that the adaptation kind of based her on both Donna and Kory to make up for Donna not being on the team. It’s not that starfire isn’t compassionate or a nice girl, she’s just, aggressively so. But Starfire doesn’t fall for the alien from a warlike culture thing where that becomes her entire personality too, because like well written female comic book characters you get a good look inside Starfire’s head and even though she runs on pure emotions, those emotoins are just as complex as any other characters. Starfire is very loving, but she also wants to be loved, beause she is effectively alone on an alien world and a lot of the conflict in her character comes from her internalized fear that the people around her don’t want to make an effort to understand her when she’s making such an effort to blend in.

Conflict is what makes characters, and Starfire can be an all loving heroine, a nurturing type personality, and also be a pretty conflict heavy character, because Starfire throws herself into conflict with people. It’s what makes her play off of Dick Grayson so well, because one of his biggest flaws is his conflict avoidance. Dick throws himself into his work as a way of avoiding people, Starfire is a hero because that’s where her new family is on this strange world and those are the people she needs to protect.

#3 Garfield Logan / Beast Boy

Beast Boy is the perfect name for Gar, because he is the most BOY to ever exist. What’s interesting about Gar is how much he has in common with Dick, he has been a costumed sidekick for about as long as Dick has, he lost his original fmaily in an accident, he was adopted by a rich step family who moonlights as a super hero and is known for being a particularly hardass mentor which gives them a strained relationship even in comparison to other superhero and sidekick mentors. However, while Dick forces himself to grow up early, Beast Boy lingers in childhood as long as possible.

He’s also interesting in comparison to Starfire, because while they are both characters who are “The Heart” of the group, Beast Boy is a lot more vulnerable than Starfire will ever be, which explains a lot of his more selfish personality traits. Beast Boy is the nicest guy you will ever meet, and also just a little bit of a whiny asshole, that’s where the complexity comes from. I think what’s interesting about Gar especially in regards to his relationship with Terra is after the fact he tends to frame her as a tragic lost love, but if you read their interactions in the comics themselves, it’s Garfield being rude and aggressive towards her a lot of the time and coming on way too strong. Terra even nearly blows her cover once because he was flirting way too hard in a training session after he told her to back off. There’s like an element of toxic masculinity to Garfield’s character because he’s a fifteen year old boy who has at that point gone through the loss of two families, trying to desperately protray the way he thinks a grown up man is supposed to act, based mainly off of what he sees in popular culture.

Beast Boy’s a meta-human with green skin and pointed ears who obviously stands out in a crowd as a hero, has no secret identity, has basically been a hero his whole life, but he’s also way more of a person then some of the other heroes in the group and that’s because he’s just full of heart. Beast Boy in spite of his many flaws, is also someone who put all of his effort into throwing a wedding for his best friends, and nearly had a breakdown because of it, because he was like I’m already a terrible hero, and an even worse friend, this is the one thing I can do I gotta do it perfect. Once Beast Boy grows up a little bit, and becomes able to stand on his own two feet, he’s also more of a well-rounded person than a few other heroes I could name because he went through this troubled development and came out on the other side stronger.

#2 Raven

Raven’s cartoon adaptation is probably the most different from her original comic book version, but when I went back and read the originals I loved that version even more. One big thing is just like Starfire, she’s one of the few alien characters (in this case raised in another dimmension) who genuinely feels alien and isolated in the way she processes her emotions and experiences the world is so different from others.

Comic Raven has probably more in common with Jean Gray then she does with her cartoon counterpart, both overly selfless individuals, quiet, unasusming nice girls whose actual superpowers are the complete opposite of their personalities. Raven was raised in almost complete isolation and taught if she doesn’t keep complete control of her emotoins at all times, then she’s giving into her father’s infleunce and she’ll turn out evil just like her father. Which is why I mention the Jean Gray parallels, the massive power they’re born with, and the massive responsibility they threeofre have to control that power and the pressure they deal with eventually causes them to crumble.

Of course I don’t think they’re the same there’s a lot that makes Raven unique, despite the fact that Raven has good intentions, and is almost always breaking herself trying to help others, due to the social isolation she experienced as a kid she’s unable to make her intentions understood and so most of the people in her friend group just leave Raven alone. She is offputting, and weird, and people don’t get her, despite all of the titans agreeing that Raven is nice, and their friend. It’s not just something other people do to her though, Raven also isolates herself, because she is afraid of that loss of perfect control that has been drilled into her since she was a kid.

There’s also a lot of interesting development as Raven grows into more of a person, because she explores new emotions with the joy of a child discovering things for the first time. She makes relationships with people and makes major mistakes, like mistaking friendship with Dick Grayson for love, or getting taken advantage of by what she thinks is her first love. There’s also a lot of interesting contrasts with Raven’s character, like her demonic other persona, vs how innocent she is as a person who grew up in another dimmension experiencing the world for the first time. Also, in spite of the fact that Raven is so selfless she’s practically a pushover, she still experiences just as much as character conflict as all of the others, because of her tendency to withdraw, keep secrets from others, bush off other peopel’s concerns for her well being, and also other peopel’s general mistrust of her due to the nature of her powers. One of the things I like to say is Kory and Raven are almost complete opposites as characters, and yet despite that they’re both equally interesting and well developed because we are in their heads enough to understand their world view and how different it is from our own. They’re both aliens and outsiders trying to find somewhere to fit in and belong and that’s Teen Titans character writing at it’s strongest.

#1 Tara Markov / Terra

You would think my favorite would be Raven, but no, it’s Terra. Terra is also a character in the 2003 adaptation who is a pretty big change, though unlike Raven I believe the stuff they added to her character always existed in the subtext. Terra was always a runaway, she was the half blooded bastard royal child who was epxerimented on and given powers, and ran away from the throne. If you analyze the (GROSS THING THAT I DON’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT HERE BUT IF YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW) in the original Judas Contract storyline, then a lot of Terra’s more unsavory behaviors make sense. Terra is someone who was always sympathetic, she just never showed those sympathetic qualities, because she was too busy trying to be the BADDEST BITCH EVER.

THat’s what I like about Terra, she is the original OG Bad Victim. Terra has the same kind of sympathetic backstory as Starfire, or Beast Boy, but her trauma doesn’t make her a better person, it makes her a worse and more unstable one. Sometimes victims don’t become heroes, sometimes trauma causes people to act in unsavory ways. The whole point in Terra’s character is that she would never have made it as a hero, and yes while the original Judas Contract does victim blame her a little bit in regards to Slade and paint her as a sociopath rather than a teenager being taken advantage of, the entire arc is also written around the fact that Terra was always going to fail at being a hero. THe Teen Titans did love and accept her, but their attemps to reach her failed. Terra shows a few times she’s actually capable of loving and caring for people in an unselfish way (she cares for Brion, and wishes him to stay far away from the Titans for Danger b/c she thinks he’s too soft), she even shows moments where she sees the things she has in common with Beast Boy and sympathizes with him a little because they are both kids who have been stepped on in life.

Terra is capable of all of these things, and she’s a symptathetic victim, but that doesn’t change the ending, she still fails. Judas Contract is up there with Under the Red Hood in one of the few comic book arcs that’s a near perfect tragedy. I think a lot of Terra’s character gets lost in the discussion on whether she deserved her ending or not, or victim blaming, like the whole point about Terra is she’s a bad victim of trauma, who lashes out in bad ways, so those discussions kind of miss the oint. Romeo and Juliet is always going to end with them killing themselves, Judas Contract always ends with Terra bringing the tower right down on herself. People are like “Why does every Teen Titans adaptation do Judas Contract? Why do I have to watch Judas Contract for the third time?” it’s because it’s good! THe same reason every X-Men adaptation tries to do Dark Phoenix, there’s just something deeply cathartic about the whole arc where a character gives into their worst flaws. Terra is so interesting because she is so heaily flawed, and those flaws are all human flaws, and even flaws the heroes share with her, and rather than overcoming she crumbles.

See, I love Terra, and I do think you could do a version of her where she does live past the Judas Contract, but most of the time when people do that they sand down the edges of her character. The Young Justice version of Terra is just awful, number one she barely talks and Terra is one of the mouthiest most ascerbic characters in comics, and two a little bit of empathy on the part of the heroes is all that it takes her to turn. Brion’s almost the more interesting character in that cartoon adaptation because he actually has flaws and gets worse and fails. The comics even tried to reboot Terra’s character a couple of times, first with the Terra clone, and then passing the mantle of Terra onto someone else and both versions are just boring. Terra is interesting because she has a standard hero tragic backstory TM, but she came out the other side so flawed. THe best versions of her preserve this warts and all. Terra isn’t a perfect innocent angel, but that also doesn’t mean she’s not a victim, or invalidate the genuine trauma she went through. Therein lies the rub, and also the complexity.

Anyway, she’s my favorite comic book sociopath (this is a joke) accept no other substitutes.

#teen titans #terra #tara markov #raven #raven roth #garfield logan #beast boy #dick grayson #robin #starfire #spooky speaks #comic book blogging #teen titans meta

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happydazedi · 2 years

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Titians season 4 episode 1 commentary! SPOILERS AHEAD

LETS GOOO BABY WE BACK

I love the forshadow of Kory with the music player from season 1🥹

AWW THE PARENTS AND THEIR 3 BABIES

I love how Rachel has 3 brothers bye I’m trynna not to cry rn

LMAO I had to rewind bc I was like I know that’s not tiny Tim picking up Connor like that but nope I was mistaken of course it was Connor lifting that man into the sky w/ ease

Connor and Rachel groaning like teenagers is my fave thing ever actually

“Please don’t burn down the bowling alley” we love a concerned husband

Oh shit, the vibe just shifted we got Lex on the scene

WE GOT KLAUS BABY I AM SO HAPPY YO SEE HIM

DAMYUMM we got 3 forces of evil this season?

Wait were they watching riverdale?

Not Connor got 2 absentee fathers. At least he has Daddy Grayson

Stop I love that Kory is the only person allowed to sit in the car, stop we’re getting more Dikkory in

23 mins than we’ve gotten in the last TWO SEASONS

I’m loving this season I can’t express that enough. This has been my favorite first episode yet

BOOED UP RACHEL AND GAR?? I ain’t mad.

Is Dick hating ninjas from a past comic book, if so someone please comment the issue imma read it

That’s slide and paint grab was so hot I love Richard

Damn when are my besties gonna get Seattle, I know they not about to spend this whole season in Metropolis- I’m dying to see the tower😫

Not Connor trynna save his sick father. Don’t u get on my nerves, boy.

There’s always one character in this show that’s gotta piss me off and since the birds not here it’s gonna be con con ugh. He lowkey selfish,

Dick- you’re gonna hurt us

Connor- wow, that’s crazy, be easy tho.

This all Clark’s fault- if he was here they’d be out having flying lessons

This script is really good. Who wrote this episode?

Lex- please stay I wanna get to know you

Connor- k

Lex- let’s get down to business, I need your help now

OOP.

Klaus better f*cking act bc that ✋🏾😀 scared the sh*t out of me

DAMN LEX DEAD SH*T THAT AIN’T LAST LONG.

Not Rachel snapping out of it like… what y’all looking at.

#titans #titans live #titans live action #dick grayson #kory anders #titans spoilers #connor kent #hbo max #hbo series

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holy-asd-batman · 2 years

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Live reactions to Superman/Batman Public Enemies

Ooooh Kara!!!!

Clark is fucking ugly

Why did the anime girl run

I do like her voice not her design

IS THAT SUPPOSED TO BE AMANDA WALLER

They did her dirty

At least all of them ugly, equality ig

Kevin Conroy, the man the myth the legend <3

God they're married

And Clark and Lex are so divorced vibes

Lex going through the motions of Bombs, their yours my friend

How are Metallos pants still on??

DON'T THROW THE GRAVESTONES CLARK THAT'S DISRESPECTFUL

Also Bruce shows up and gets his shit wrecked in 0.5 seconds

Sure blow up the entire graveyard

"Do us a favour and lose the sense of humour." "Do us a favour and buy one"

CLARK HE'S OPERATING ON YOUR HEART AND TRYING TO REMOVE THE KRYPTONITE, WHILE THE FIGHT IS STILL GOING ON. NOW IS NOT THE TIME

The pic of Bruce just lying like the family guy meme

The casual banter while both of them are seriously in danger of succumbing from their wounds -> married

I'm enjoying Luthor so far. He's just lying and spreading blatant misinformation and he's loving it

Kara's design is so ugly, her boobs are too big and her eyes are too far apart. She looks like a porn version of a Disney Princess

WHO IS THAT SHE’S HOT

Banshee she looks cool

How Solomon Grundy holds Batman is how I treat him in my mind

Deadshot is spinning guns nice

KORI NO I LOVE YOU GIRL, WHY ARE YOU WORKING FOR LUTHOR

Wait wasn't Bruce inside that Tornado

Lex Luthor and Ru-Paul have the same speech patterns

Bro the argument "He's the president" sounds so stupid to a non-american

Like imagine going this hard for fucking Mark Rutte or worse Willem-Alexander

Batman spitting facts "I don't see any patriotism here"

Did Powergirl just kill someone and cause the death of another

Yep RIP Captain Atom and Major ‘I forgot your name’

Wait isn't this the meteorite that supposedly annihilated Blüdhaven

And kicked off No Man's Land

If a meteorite that size was involved wouldn't this be a UN problem and not necessarily a American Issue

Billy come on, I trusted you

I love the thoonk sound that happens when Billy hits Clark

NICE ONE BILLY GET HIS ASS

"Just taking my supplements"

Luthor is insane I'm loving this

Wait is Bruce just standing there half-naked

Luthor is so unhinged

Besties flying away

LUTHOR SAYING BITCH WAS SO OUT OF LEFT FIELD

Oh the general is going to die

I may be making a separate post with screenshots of Luthor he is absolutely bat-shit insane

Ohhh I do not like Toyman’s accent

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT MECHA SUIT

FUCK YESSSSSSSSSS

Every line Luthor says is just Gold

Bruce this is the tenth time you got swung against a wall with your grappling line

THE GOODBYE FROM BRUCE AND THE FALLING SCENE HOLD ON

this is so homoerotic

Oh Clark is mad mad

Comics have been described as Modern Mythology

These two are Patroclus and Achilles the way they keep sacrificing themselves for the other

Clark is mentally dragging Luthors corpse behind his carriage

Yeah Bruce wouldn't have survived that

The crowd cheering for the explosion of the Meteor while Clark looking devastated cause he knows Bruce died... Hold on...

Luthor still being a bitch

Oh Captain Atom is alive

Titties out Luthor, I salute you

He's Alive!!

Ahwwww Clarks smiling again

That hand-holding was not platonic

"God bless America, God bless Me!!!" You got this Luthor I BELIEVE IN YOU

#I don't remember this one #but anyway I had fun #I will definitely make the Luthor quote/picture post #Batman/Superman: Public Enemies #Batman #Superman #Lex Luthor #Bruce Wayne #Clark Kent

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redrobin-detective · 2 years

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for the ship bingo meme: Clark/Bruce and/or Dick/Kori?

I chose Superbat bc I view Dickkori like I do Timsteph (friends to lovers to 'hey this isn't working let's go back to being friends' and being besties from there).

I will start off by saying, in general I don't really ship Bruce with anyone. To me, he's not the kind of person who will be happy/good with a normal equal partnerships. Psychoanalyze it all you want but his strongest relationships are people in his immediate family and/or people he has some power over.

Anyway, so due to my conflicted feelings I did give contradictory answers. My feel on Superbat is that 'if you're Really best friends you've got to be at least a little in love with them'. They both have some level of attraction to the other but they would never act on it just being who they are. But there is love there, deep platonic love that could spill over into romantic should they go for it. But they won't. I, by way of my opinion that B just shouldn't have a romantic partner, think they'd be horrible for each other.

That said, I've read some great superbat Aus (dont ask me I cant remember names or anything, I'm terrible lol) and think in some universes it could work. But in this universe, they are just a bit in love with the other and everyone knows it but also knows it will never go beyond what they have.

#bruce shouldnt be a relationship sorry #they all implode bc of his fundamental nature #just let him have lots and lots of strong familial and platonic loves #and have him find peace with that #god knows I know bruce wayne to tears but that man will never be happy to an 'equal' partnership #he has to know everything be better etc #i would kill him lol

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sea-owl · 2 years

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Besties Clark and Kori Pride edition

Kori attends Pride with Clark every year in Metropolis. Her custome is changed to the pansexual flag colors meanwhile Clark changes his cape so its the rainbow flag on the outside and underneath is the bisexual flag. It was a gift from Kori years ago when she realized Clark liked both Lois and Bruce.

They fly above the parade together keeping watch and everyone got a good look at their Pride edition uniforms. This was how many civilians, heroes, and villains learn that Superman is bi and Starfire is pan.

#unseen is alfred smirking at the tv when he sees now knowing master bruce definitely has a shot with his not a crush #besties clark and kori #superman #starfire #clark kent #koriandr #koriand'r #kori anders #dc comics #dcu #slight superbat

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superherokisser · 4 months

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how was titans

IT WAS CRAZY😭😭😭

ok so trigon (rachel/raven’s dad. he is a demon) LITERALLY PUT MY SON (dick) IN THIS WEIRD ASS DREAM THINF TO PROVE LIKE. if was gonna give into the darkness or something. it was weird cause he was dating dawn/dove and had a kid with her named johnny and like😭??? AND JASON JUMPSCARE<33333so so happy 2 see him ANWYAYS bruce was crazy in this one frfr they should’ve just called me like.

ok so barbara had gone missing and commissioner gordon n alfred DIED!!!! also clark and bruce were NOT besties❌❌❌:(:(:(:((;( and then bruce killed some innocent people and the joker and the riddler etc etc and then dick told everyone thst bruce wayne is batman so then they raided his house and then bruce killed kory WHICH I CRIED. and then I CRIED AGAIN BC DICK STEPPED ON BRUCES THROWT AND HE DIED😭😭but it’s ok bc it was a dream but now!!!my son is like. evil. i hope he’s ok frfr

#ollie <3 #sorry for rambling

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lacrimosathedark · 2 years

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You know what? Here is what I hope for the future of Batfam relationships

For Bruce, he is both Forever Alone and in multiple relationships.

He and Selina don't get married because she's a free spirit but they act like they're married whenever she stops by and she is essentially the Robin/Batgirl stepmother. And then they have Helena! She is such a good mom and Bruce is utterly smitten. She will also kick his ass when he's being dumb or emotionally constipated. Bonus.

He and Talia are amicable exes; they will always love each other but their lives are incompatible. Talia is very protective of Bruce's kids and she and Selina get on surprisingly well. Do not threaten Jason, Tim, or Damian if you want to live. Bruce cannot stop her and Selina will not.

(Bruce may or may not also have a vacillating relationship with both Lois and Clark. Lois is fucking awesome and Clark is his best friend like beyond measure)

Dick is with Babs, Kory, and Wally. Linda is nervous at first but she also loves Dick and they are besties and Jai and Irey adore him. Babs and Kory are jealous of each other at first, but they become friends through mocking the everloving shit out of Dick's dumbassery. Wally does nothing more than pat Dick's shoulder in sympathy because he's not arguing with the girls when they're right and it's fucking funny.

Jason and Roy may as well be married. Lian loves Jason, especially since he helped her as an amnesiac teen (I just love the idea, the Strays are in Alleytown which is in/by Park Row it's in "his territory" and Jason gets the while street orphan thing so yes). Jason and Jade hate each other but are willing to tolerate each other for Lian because Lian is Lian and deserves anything she fucking wants and she wants to know her mom. Lian also loves having badass adoptive grandmas. Selina is her favorite because she took her in, but she adores Dinah and Talia is so cool. And she gets to see Uncle Dick all the time and Jason pretends he isn't happy to see him but he is (after he works past insecurity about Dick's collection of redheads because can I just keep this one Dick holy shit Roy's mine now fuck off). Bruce and Ollie fight over who is best grandpa. Lian's family is the best. Jason and Roy date nights consist of blowing shit up, makeouts, and then going home to snuggle with their daughter.

Tim and Kon are together FINALLY and lowkey co-parenting Bart. They made joke adoption papers and hang it up on the wall. Cassie claims the title of wine aunt. Everyone else thinks they're ridiculous but They Are Family. Everyone mocks them for not realizing they were in love sooner. Like, Kon's existence pre-New 52 screamed "gay crisis shouting "no homo"" and Tim's sanity is directly tied to his relationship with Conner, like??? Tim how did you just realize you were bi you absolute dorkweed. They also both had bicon girlfriends, like??? Morons. Adorable.

Tim and Steph will always love each other, but they didn't really work as they were and are happier with other people. They have a sort of romantic friendship. Steph actually conspired with Cass to get Tim to confess to Kon because boi both of you are idiots.

Stephanie and Cass (Cain) are happily dating and the most functional relationship in the Batfam. They don't need to talk to communicate. Cass has her abilities, but Steph can read Cass specifically almost as well. Not that they don't talk; Cass is comfy enough with Steph that sometimes she will just talk for hours. So in love and so comfy together.

Damian is either dating or in a queerplatonic relationship with Jon Kent. They are best friends and always have each other's backs and love each other so fucking much. They live together on the farm and Damian has a whole ass animal sanctuary and Jon helps him care for the animals and it's beautiful and nothing hurts.

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thisiswhereikeepdcthings · 2 years

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top 5 dc ships? and to go with that, top 5 non-romantic dc relationships?

Top 5 ships:

1. Dinah/Ollie. They are the cutest and I love them.

2. Bruce/Talia

3. Dick/Kori

4. Bruce/Clark

5. Jason/Happiness (and whomever that might include - I have a lengthy list of possibilities)

Top 5 non-romantic:

1. Tim + Steph. I don’t really ship them romantically, but they are and will forever be besties regardless and you can’t change my mind.

2. Bruce + Selina. Another canon ship I don’t ship. But being the kind of friends who will lie their butts off at a moments notice for you no questions asked and then spend five hours gossiping is great.

3. Barry + Hal

4. Ra’s + pettiness

5. J’onn + Diana

Okay and then because I can, 5 ships that I feel there should be more for yet feel in no way prepared to contribute to:

1. Bruce/Oliver. It’s just interesting to me for some reason.

2. Jason/Kara

3. Jason/Kon

4. Jason/Wally (no you don’t see a theme what are you talking about)

5. Zatanna/Constantine

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jmoriarty-221b · 3 years

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Crack AU: Tim, Kon, Bart and Cassie encounter the actual Space Orcs

Bonus: The Space Orcs are in awe of Red Robin; the Core Four stays with them for a week and Cassie, Kon & Bart manage to indoctrinate the whole population into their Protect Red Robin Club (at this point the Core Four is in their early 20s and taking online college courses)

The bracelets say PRRC; every Orc receives one from Kon, Bart and Cassie, they wear their bracelets with pride; Tim is sorta oblivious to what is happening due to the fact that the previous two weeks were spent dismantling an intergalactic trafficking ring so he’s not 100% there; the Orcs consider Tim a celebrity because he also comes from a death planet but what really bumped him to celebrity status was that he managed to take down the Insurgents, some Orcs have their equivalent of a celebrity crush on Red Robin, and it doesn’t help that his space suit is actually aesthetically pleasing so they’re like ‘oh [token expletive] he’s cute’

The Core Four has special space suits kinda like Captain Marvel’s suit; Tim is unaware of this but the reason his superhero suits are ugly is because his friends know he’s ✨pretty✨and it’s Concerning how middle age super villains happen to be attracted to their birb so they purposely make his suits be ugly because Ra’s is obsessed enough, they’re not gonna give him the chance to fight Tim in a skin tight suit because that’ll just encourage the creep; thing is that their space suits are different because they need to be able to operate in zero gravity and maintain their oxygen and life support, so they engineered suits for their space missions that look like Captain Marvel’s suit (MCU) but with each of their hero aesthetic built into them; they also all have under suits that keep their body temperature in the normal range (these under suits are like the one Tony Stark wears under the armor in Avengers Assemble); they all look badass and they don’t have to worry about making Tim look ugly in the nicest way possible because outer space doesn’t have middle age creepy super villains, which leads to the Orcs forming their equivalent of a crush on Tim; it’s weird but they all obviously care for Tim’s well-being and while they are the most dangerous aliens in the galaxy and are considered a warrior race, they don’t incite war and only defend themselves if attacked, also they live in a death planet so they have adapted to survive on it; overall, Cassie, Bart & Kon are aware of the Orcs’ celebrity crush on their birb, but after they get over the weirdness of it they realize that it could work since Dick and Kori were a thing for a while and Clark married Lois so a relationship between a human and an alien isn’t that outlandish, and a space Orc will always be a better option than some middle aged creepy creep from Earth (Tim is just living his best life, oblivious to what’s happening, and learning about this species that shares a fellow death planet and comparing similarities between their planet and Earth)

Anyway, the Core Four get back from their ‘vacation’ (Bart has had a secret spaceship that they’ve been using since they were teens and they’re not about to give out that piece of information now) and every few weeks Tim arranges a meeting with his new space friends💫 to go visit and at least one member of the Core Four always goes with him (Cassie is a fantastic liar so she can cover for them in case their former mentors/parents ask where they went, Bart can do a baby face and get out of trouble so he’s also an expert on covering for them, Kon can always vouch for his friends should he be asked for their whereabouts and Tim is an excellent lying liar who lies so he always has a contingency ready in case someone asks for them); most of the time they can all go and visit their space friends, Tim remains with his celebrity status amongst the Orcs, Bart, Kon & Cassie make friends and give out ideas to the engineers on some fun side projects they could all collaborate on ‘trust me dude, we can totally build a functioning light saber for science’, Tim is the one that starts off this trend by introducing the Orcs to pop culture and in return the Orcs teach them about their own equivalent pop culture references, they have a universal translator but they visit so much that they all end up learning the alien language and become fluid in it

The rest of the alien population is finding this new development to be terrifying because the human and his teammates that managed to defeat the Insurgents have now allied themselves with the most dangerous alien race on the galaxy so they’re all Shook; Hal doesn’t get payed enough for this shit and grabs Clark by the front of his suit to vent the next time he sees Supes at the watchtower “You don’t understand Clark, the lanterns don’t mess with the Orcs, krypton didn’t mess with the Orcs, fucking Darkseid leaves them alone, and Spooky’s kid just made besties with Every. Single. One. Of. Them. The kids made them FUCKING FRIENDSHIP BRACELETS CLARK” Clark is just like nervously laughing while whispering “what the fuck” they all think Bruce already knows but doesn’t seem concerned so they don’t bring it up, in truth Bruce and Selina just had twins (Helena and Terry) so Bruce hasn’t slept in months and everything is fine as long as none of his kids bring on the apocalypse so no, he’s not functional enough to know that Tim just inadvertently made the most dangerous alien race in the galaxy hail him as their personal celebrity nor that Kon, Cassie and Bart have exchanged friendship bracelets with every Orc (the bracelets have the letters PRRC for Protect Red Robin Club; Tim continues to be unaware of this)

Ps: this was the AU I accidentally deleted earlier but now it’s all good

#tim drake #cassie sandsmark #kon el #bart allen #impulse #superboy #red robin #wonder girl #space orcs #humans are space orcs #the Core Four meet the actual Space Orcs #Tim has a celebrity status among them for defeating the Insurgents #Protect Red Robin Club is made #every Orc is part of it #they are all in awe of Tim #Cassie #Bart #and Kon #are proud of their birb and how he’s getting the recognition he deserves #their birb is also very ✨pretty✨#the Orcs notice this #cue them developing a celebrity crush on Tim #it’s cute #they’re considered a noble warrior race #and that’s way better than some ancient creepy creep persuing Tim #looking at you Ra’s #the rest of the aliens have become Terrified of the Core Four #Zod learned of this development and abandoned his plans to conquer Earth #he knows at some point Superman will have to deal with that so he just sends Clark a post card #it says ‘good luck and goodbye’

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bigskydreaming · 5 years

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@dargeon-lissa I saw your note on that post, but I’m afraid I don’t have the time or energy to dive down that particular rabbit hole this week, lol. I generally avoid getting into the ‘who stole what from whom’ arguments in the first place, just because I really do love all the Batkids when fandom isn’t getting in the way, and I firmly believe there’s no need to treat characteristics or even plots as though they can only belong to one character.

So like, I happily butt in when someone says something like “YJ Dick’s hacking is stolen from Tim” because like, its not like its a knock against Tim to point out that “no, Dick’s been portrayed as an expert hacker since before Tim was created, they can both be great hackers, stop being dumb.”

And like I was saying just the other day where I think its stupid and juvenile to emphasize some idea that Dick never reads for pleasure or educates himself for the joy of learning, because some people seem to think that takes something away from Jason, if they’re also writing him with an emphasis on those characteristics.

That sort of thing.

The rest of the time though, I think it really just comes down to intent, otherwise its just a moot point.

Like, I’m not a fan of Court of Owls fics that center around Tim and basically transplant him with all of Dick’s canon connections to it....but that’s because its like...what’s your point with that fic? If its just because you like the Court of Owls and Talon plotlines but you don’t like Dick, so you’re just cut and pasting one swapped out for the other, then you’ve lost me, not because you’ve ‘stolen’ from Dick, but because you’re not doing anything NEW with the material you’ve applied to a new, different character...while disregarding its source connections.

*Shrugs* I don’t think that’s about being possessive of Dick’s storylines, its about being like....this is boring. If someone wrote a fic about Tim and the Court of Owls but doesn’t just use him in place of Dick, and still acknowledges their connection to Dick instead of trying to pretend like it or he doesn’t exist...in and of itself, I don’t have a problem with that, it just comes down to whether or not I like what they do with that. Much in the same way that I’d read fic about Dick going up against Ra’s in some specific plot, but if its set after a point in the comics where Tim’s stories started intertwining with Ra’s a lot, I would still want to see that acknowledged.

Because I do think its disingenuous to pretend that Tim’s stories don’t use Ra’s a lot more regularly than Dick’s canon stories do, even though Dick has prior interactions and stories with Ra’s that go way back before Tim existed. But like....these things don’t need to come into conflict. I can imagine a story that’s Dick vs Ra’s and that doesn’t take away from the respect (or his creepy version of it) that Ra’s has shown Tim as well. He’s allowed to regard more than one of Bruce’s kids as a worthy adversary, and it makes sense that he would. It doesn’t threaten Dick’s central role in a story like that, or his competence, to allow for the fact that Ra’s has a preoccupation with Tim as well, even if that’s not his focus in this particular plot.

And by the same token, if I were to write a story that springs out of the events of Robin: Year One, for instance, where Dick gets tangled up with Ra’s and Talia and the League because of Vengeance Academy or Boone, something like that.....and I don’t even mention Tim, because its years before Tim would have come into the picture....that’s not me stealing anything from Tim, because those prior connections existed, why shouldn’t anyone make use of them?

Oh fuck it. I clearly went down the rabbit hole anyway. Whatever, more under the cut. Why am I like this.

It goes both ways too. Yeah, sure, I think its dumb when Jason stans act like focusing on Dick’s death takes something away from the typical focus on Jason’s, like he’s less special now or this is Dick ‘stealing Jason’s thing.’ Its comic books. More characters have died and come back then haven’t. Few have their death and return be as central to their character as Jason’s is, like, the Death of Superman is an iconic story but even with that, Clark’s death and resurrection isn’t like....regarded as a fundamental part of his stories....but that doesn’t mean no one’s allowed to write stories that focus on the deaths and returns of other characters, for whatever reason.

That’s not taking anything away from Jason’s stories, its not copying him, and neither is the way Dick was believed dead for a year like, a rip off of when Steph’s story went the same way prior to that. Characters believed to be dead being revealed as alive is an equally long-running comic book trope. It applies to far more than just the two of them, and no one has proprietary claim over it, its about what you DO with it.

Now, stories that focus on Dick’s death and how he was believed dead and revealed otherwise.....that involve the rest of the Batfamily and make a point not to mention any parallels with Jason or Steph’s stories, act like nothing similar ever happened with them....then I’d be equally wary of that story because I’d be like...why? What’s the point in pretending there are no parallels, acting like Dick is the only one this has ever happened to? He doesn’t need to be, in order for it to have impact, so enough with this Highlander “There can only be one” philosophy.

Like, Dick’s one of the most iconic DC characters and has been around for 80 years. He was going to die and be brought back at some point. Deal with it. It was always inevitable, just like its pretty inevitable that its going to happen to Tim for real at some point too. It just hasn’t yet.

All that said....there have been a number of stories over the years that have posited Dick being killed by the Joker and coming back as Renegade or Red Hood. Similarly, I have no interest in reading those, not because I’m opposed to a Renegade storyline or an exploration of a darker version of Dick, but because they’re usually just a blatant cut and paste job. *Shrugs* I’ve already read that story with Jason and UTRH. I liked that story, with Jason and UTRH. Why do I need to read the same story, just with Dick now instead of Jason? I’d rather read something brand new.

Then we get to ‘stealing characters.’ Like Jason stealing Kory and Roy, and Dick stealing Kon in YJ, etc. I have the same philosophy here as I do about characteristics....its weird and not cool to me to treat characters as having ‘claim’ to any other characters...but that doesn’t mean I always like when this happens either. But its not because they’re taking what belongs to another character, its about why, and what they do with it.

Like, when its a cheap grab of established characters being now associated with a different character to give them a supporting cast with minimal effort, as opposed to building them their own supporting cast with time and care and putting thought into it...THAT’S my problem with that. I don’t typically like Jason being besties with Kory and Roy, either in canon or in fanfics....but that’s not actually because they’re Dick’s friends and can’t be Jason’s too, its because I don’t like the stories that result from that, and I don’t think they make a case or put any effort into convincing me that this needs to be a trio....the way the comics have decades worth of stories establishing a connection between Dick and Roy and Kori and Dick, and with that being why they’re so associated with him.

I don’t like Jason, Roy and Kory in canon because I just don’t like the New 52 versions of Roy and Kory period, lol. I hate what they’ve done with them, they feel watered down and tweaked in ways that add nothing to their characters, and their association with Jason irritates me not because it exists, but because of how rarely it allows their association with Dick to exist, and acts like mentioning him in their stories threatens the validity of them being with Jason. You wanna write them being Jason’s friends, DO THAT. But put some EFFORT into it. JUSTIFY it. And....don’t erase their connections to Jason’s brother because they’re not allowed to have connections with two brothers at the same time or whatever. Like, even without all their pre-Flashpoint history, New 52 Roy and Kory SHOULD show way more of a connection to Dick than their stories with Jason ever allow for, and that’s the bigger issue to me. Not that Jason ‘stole’ them, but that writers act like he can’t have stories with them without pretending their stories with Dick don’t exist.

Even in New 52, like, the Rebirth version of Titans was crap, lol, but it still existed, and like....there’s hardly any acknowledgment of Dick and Roy being long time teammates even AFTER the Titans got their memories of each other back in Rebirth. Even if they’re not the best of friends in New 52 the way they were in Flashpoint, they still had way more history in even current canon than Jason’s comicbook writers or fic writers seem willing to allow mentions of. Similarly, we barely know anything about Dick and Kory’s relationship in the New 52....but we do know they HAD one, and fucking amnesia was involved there too, lol, but like. It exists. You want to write her mostly hanging out with Jason now, fine! But like....there’s no reason her past with Dick can’t still exist, and that it would never come up.

Instead, I read way too many fics about Jason, Kory and Roy where the latter two just fucking full on hate Dick, because the writer does. Or just act like he’s a total stranger to them and their loyalty is solidly with Jason and always has been and always will be. And that’s cheap and lazy writing to me, and makes no sense and wouldn’t appeal to me even if it wasn’t Dick that was being bashed and it was a different character in a similar context.

So its not like they CAN’T be good friends with Jason, because they were such good friends with Dick first. Its just...factor that in, at least, you know? But admittedly, even were writers to do this more, it still wouldn’t be ideal IMO, with these particular characters....because I’m always gonna wonder WHY. Why them? Why these two in particular, when giving Jason more friends? Like, especially if you’re still incorporating large amounts of pre-reboot history into your characters, Jason and his dynamics with Dick and the Batfamily in particular.....its always going to be a little weird to me to have Jason of all people become besties with one of his big brother’s most iconic and longterm friends, and his big brother’s ex-fiancee and mother of his child in other timelines.

Like....its just a matter of....you couldn’t come up with anyone else? That’s why when I headcanon giving Jason more friends and teammates of his own - BECAUSE HE TOTALLY DESERVES THEM AND I WANT HIM TO HAVE THEM, I AGREE, LOL - like, I focus on characters who have no strong connections to Dick or Tim or anyone else in the Batfamily already. And its not because I don’t want to steal what ‘belongs’ to anyone else already, but because....Jason should get to build and have strong connections with characters on his own. I’d rather look through DC’s vast library of characters and find ones that I think FIT him best, have the most potential to play off his character and add to his storylines....then try and take a shortcut by seeing who’s been popular with his big brother but isn’t currently being used in big brother’s storylines, and thus can become besties with Jason without needing to put too much effort into writing that happening.

And that’s why I don’t have a ton of interest in writing Jason with Kory and Roy....because I still prefer their dynamics and history with Dick and don’t really feel they make a ton of sense to go live with his younger brother instead, so I’m happy to just have them friendly with Jason, maybe even the friends of Dick’s he’s closest too and they’ve occasionally teamed up on their own....but for Jason himself, I’d rather build him connections with Tomcat, Damage, Ray, Jade and Obsidian, Anima, maybe the aged up version of Chris Kent....characters he has a blank slate with, no prior strong associations with his older brother that innately make any connection Jason has with them at least somewhat complicated....people I feel he could play off of well and they could add a lot to each others’ characterizations and storylines, and I can easily and without conflict write them being fully in Jason’s corner in ANY kind of disagreement with even Dick or the other Titans....without there always being this weird edge where its like, are Kory and Roy on Jason’s side here just solely for his sake, or is it also because they’re pissed at Dick or the other Titans for their own reasons, or what’s going on here?

Now jump back to where I brought up how YJ Dick has been accused of stealing Kon from Tim. Like, this I think is fully dumb, and again, people can think its because I’m a Dick stan and think he should have everything lol, but its exactly what I’ve been saying all along. Its about what you do with the characters. And its about that none of them belong to any other character in the first place.

Like, can I just say I hate the whole ‘so and so needs their own super, their own speedster, their own archer’ mindset? They’re not collector’s items. They don’t go up in value once you have a complete set. If you’re trying to configure a team and make sure you have certain different archetypes and powersets because of what that allows for narratively? I’m all on board. But once you start going well Kon is Tim’s super and Jon is Damian’s....then I’m like. LOL. No. Kon is Tim’s FRIEND. Jon is Tim’s FRIEND.

And also because...that’s all Connor actually is, in Young Justice? He’s Dick’s FRIEND. And teammate. He’s not “Dick’s super” because tbh, I don’t see how he’s any more closely associated with Dick in YJ than any of the other original core cast. He’s got the exact same degree of closeness and familiarity with Dick in YJ as he does with say, Artemis. Did Artemis steal Kon too? Or are they just all friends by virtue of the YJ showrunners deciding to make Connor one of their age group, because they wanted their team to have a character with connections to Superman and Lex, not because they wanted Dick to have his own Super.

*Shrugs* And if you don’t like moving Connor to a different age group and generation of heroes in and of itself, that’s a valid complaint! But it doesn’t need to be about Dick stealing something from Tim. I hate that Raven and Beast Boy were aged down in the New 52 and the more recent animated movies and are more in Damian’s age group than Dick’s.....but that’s because I love the classic 80′s Teen Titans lineup and miss Raven and Gar’s dynamics with ALL the older Titans characters. Not because Damian stole them from Dick. I also hate Vic on the Justice League because it was nominally supposed to be to boost his profile but I think its only resulted in a regression in his stories as while a Titan, he had a LOT more narrative focus and a lot more character connections than he’s ever been given since being made an original Leaguer in the New 52′s version of the Justice League. And I don’t hate the JL for stealing Vic from the Titans, I hate the DC editorial staff for making dumb, flimsy creative choices in the name of headlines and hashtags instead of solid character choices and strong narratives.

Like, I went off for a bit there, admittedly, but god. I just hate this whole ‘so and so stole this and that from so and so’ in fandom, because its so pointless, IMO. And people take it so faaaaaar.

LOL, you know how I talk a lot about shipping Dick/Kyle? I’ve had people accuse me of ‘stealing’ Kyle from Jason....because enough people ship Jason/Kyle on the basis of the one comic they were in together and had tension in, that he’s now apparently ‘Jason’s’ and the only reason anyone could possibly have for shipping him with Dick is because Jason’s not allowed to have nice things.

I can’t even express how dumb that sounds to someone who’s been shipping Dick and Kyle ever since there like, two interactions in the Obsidian Age JLA arc that came out years before Jason was even brought back in the comics, let alone starred in a comic with Kyle. Where absolutely, yeah, he had far more interactions with Kyle than Dick and Kyle have ever had! But like, there’s not a fucking quota for non canon ships, lmao. Its not like whoever has the most interactions with someone gets to call dibs.

There’s a whole laundry list of reasons I ship Dick and Kyle together, based on their core characterizations and their storylines, and various parallels I’ve seen in both over the years. And any story I wrote with the two of them as a couple would absolutely reference Kyle’s previous history with Jason and Donna in Countdown, and have him have his own interactions and dynamics with the two of them, separate and distinct from what he had with Dick. And none of that has anything to do with wanting to ship him with Dick because he’s usually shipped with Jason and I’m jealous and want him with my fave instead, lol. I actually do ship Jason and Kyle as well at times, in other story ideas, and that actually has very little to do with their Countdown interactions as well. If anything, the reason I ship Kyle with both Jason and Dick in different scenarios is because I’ve always seen Dick and Jason as very similar in a lot of regards....and thus they both share a lot of the characterizations and story points that I parallel with Kyle’s, and are what makes me think he’s a viable love interest for either of them.

To wrap this up, I can FEEL the inevitability of someone out there saying “Big talk, but what about you insisting that Jason STOLE Robin from Dick?”

Like, I can just FEEL that on the tip of someone’s tongue, lmao.

And to that I would have to answer....uh....I’ve never ever ever even once said or suggested that Jason stole Robin. I’ve always maintained that the fault there was Bruce and Bruce’s alone, and its Bruce who has something to account for there. From an IN STORY perspective. Because of the CHARACTER reasons for Dick feeling protective and possessive of the mantle, not for any meta reason about it being his and his alone.

Because I do like all of the Robins. I’m glad all of them were Robin. My repeated insistence on stressing the importance of the name for Dick, and hating how little that’s acknowledged...is literally just that. I can like all of the Robins and still think that as the creator of the mantle, and having created it to honor the legacy of his first family, the Flying Graysons, NOT to be an extension of the Batman, I just happen to think that even with all of the Robins sharing in the legacy at this point and adding their own bits to the mantle and what it means and represents, Dick’s motivations for becoming Robin in the first place and the fact that he was not the one given the choice of turning it into a legacy is something that deserves to be upheld as the most important factor in narratives about passing on the mantle and conflict over the mantle.

Not because Dick’s the best Robin or the most important or anything that requires or suggests RANKING the Robins according to some completely arbitrary set of parameters....

but simply because Dick’s creation of the mantle and his reasons for doing it and what it meant to him from the start and to this day....are the most RELEVANT to stories about the passing on of the mantle or conflict about the mantle.

Because simply in terms of causation....without Dick’s motivations...the mantle they all fight over would not even exist. Voila. That makes them innately relevant to any discussion of the mantle in a way that say, Tim’s motivations for becoming Robin aren’t necessarily relevant to a conversation about the mantle between Dick and Jason, or Jason and Damian, or any other variation not involving Tim. Dick’s motivations are the only ones that always bear relevancy in anything pertaining to the Robin mantle, because he’s the singular commonality for it, no matter who holds it and how they got it....because he’s the one who created it.

That’s all. Its got nothing to do with best or favorite, its about....just wanting fandom to stop treating his feelings about Robin as the most irrelevant, when he’s the only single common denominator wherever Robin is concerned....and thus the most relevant.

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