#the Lazarus Pit

[space-dreams-world]

In most DC fics, we have Jason after the pit can't stand to go out when Joker is out of arkham or there are other side effects to the pits.

So, in Danny Phantom, we can compare the ectoplasm in the portal to some form of clearer pits. There should also be side effects. With the death scar and whatever you headcannon, I feel like on some days or even on his death day, Danny can't stand being near his parents, the Portal or Sam (if you count the wish that they weren't friends anymore where Sam had to kill Danny to rebrand him).

[secretlystephaniebrown]

I Read Nearly Every Appearance of the Lazarus Pit Before Flashpoint and All I Got Was A Headache: A Meta Commentary

So! The Lazarus Pit!

The Lazarus Pit is obviously an iconic part of the Batman Franchise. We encounter it everywhere, from the Under the Red Hood movie, to the Lazarus Planet event which just ended.

But has the Lazarus Pit always been this way?

It's comics. Of course not.

Very long comic rant with citations below!

The Nu52 and following reboots obviously overhauled Lazarus Lore so completely they're functionally a different thing, so I'm not talking about them. Today, instead, we're talking about post-crisis/pre-Flashpoint Lazarus Pits, their contradictions, and what we can make of them.

The Lazarus Pits have been around nearly as long as Ra's and Talia have been, and even before they appeared, it was clear that Ra's had some method of extending his life.

Batman (1940-2011) #235

The first Lazarus Pit itself seems to be in a chalet in Switzerland, and it's very different than what we will later associate it as. It is instead, a mortuary slab that lowers itself into a pit of "bubbling liquid"

Batman (1940-2011) #243

In these early versions, the Lazarus Pit is portrayed as a medical invention that Ra's has used to extend his life.

It is shown to have consequences, which fandom has, of course, latched onto.

Batman (1940-2011) #244

Here, we see the Lazarus Madness described as including "the strength of ten men", and he is able to be able to resist nearly all attacks from Batman and Lo Ling.

In addition, Ra's claims that he has used the pit too often, which is shown to be the driving force behind his interest in Bruce and his legacy.

Batman (1940-2011) #244

Later appearances of Ra's and the pit throughout this era add a few more interesting tidbits.

He claims that only he can use the Lazarus Pit... but puts Talia in it in that same issue, claiming that it's okay if it's just a quick dip.

Batman (1940-2011) #335

Is Ra's lying about no one else being able to use the pit? Almost certainly. He will start putting anyone he wants into the pit soon enough.

Those with a keen eye might notice that the Lazarus Pit is already going through some aesthetic changes: we're still seeing a slab being lowered into a small pit, but now the liquid within is orange! This will come up a lot!

Next up we have the storyline Grant Morrison refused to read: Son of the Demon.

In Son of the Demon, Ra's claims that there was an earlier version of the Pit, before the final version Bruce has already encountered. In this version, he claims that Mellisande, Talia's mother, was pushed into this proto-pit, and it killed her.

Batman: Son of the Demon (1987)

Denny O'Neil will later retcon this in 1993, claiming that Talia's mother died of a drug overdose, and Ra's refused to bring her back.

But it is consistent in early versions of the story that Lazarus Pits, if not entered with proper care and with the right preparations, can be dangerous.

Bride of the Demon is the next storyline, and Ra's BRINGS the Lazarus Pits in this one. Ra's finds himself a hot MILF girlfriend and puts her in the Pit to make her younger so she can give him kids.

Batman: Bride of the Demon (1990)

This Lazarus Pit is shown to be more experimental than past versions, with Ra's and Dr. Weltmann attempting to prevent the Lazarus Madness factor.

Ra's later puts a child in the pit as a bribe to his father, but the kid had possibly been dead too long, and it was hinted there were going to be long-term consequences for the actions... which were dropped. As was the wife, who was supposedly pregnant at the end of this story. Comics!

This is the first time that limits on the Lazarus Pit are presented, but it is certainly not the last. This idea that there's an upper limit on how long someone can be dead for before a Lazarus Pit doesn't do anything will come back again.

Batman: Birth of the Demon finally brings in a more mystical aspect to the Lazarus Pits, which so far have been vaguely scientific. In this story, we are introduced to the fact that Lazarus Pits are located on the convergence points of leylines (which in-universe have something to do with the electro-magnetic field). Ra's's approximate age is revealed, and it is shown that Bruce and Ra's have been fighting a real-estate battle over sites where Lazarus Pits can be built.

Batman: Birth of the Demon (1992)

In flashbacks, we learn that Ra's figured out how to build a Lazarus Pit, and was not actually the first person to use it. Instead, it was for the son of the Sultan Ra's worked for as a physician.

After the Sultan's son went mad, killed Sora, and blamed Ra's for it, Ra's had his vengeance... by putting the son in a false Lazarus Pit.

This pit was sabotaged by not being built on a Leyline. So uh... be careful with those, I guess!

So in short: by the end of this era of Denny O'Neil/Mike Barr Lazarus Lore, we know that anyone can use a Lazarus Pit, but Ra's controls them with his knowledge of how to create them. Bruce can find where they should be by tracking leylines, and will pass this knowledge on to others over time.

We then enter a new era! The Chuck Dixon era, to be specific.

Chuck Dixon has surprisingly few retcons for us. We first really encounter his take on Lazarus Lore in his mini series Bane of the Demon, where Bane works with Ra's and co.

We get a brief recap of the lore here:

Batman: Bane of the Demon #3 (1998)

We are now introduced to an interesting new layer: the Lazarus Pits can be predicted, not just detected. Ra's has headquarters set up all over the world, in places where Lazarus Pits not only are, but will be. Some pit locations appear to remain the same throughout the years (Ra's has built numerous pits on the location of the first site: at least three that we know of), but generally, Lazarus Pits seem to be a one-time deal.

Ra's clearly has dedicated most of his life to these pits; to acquiring their locations, to predicting where they will be, experimenting with how to make them better... so obviously, he guards the formula for how to make them extremely closely, right?

Well. Not according to Chuck.

Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight (1989-2007) #145

And if you've noticed that head of green hair on the ground there, that's right folks! BRUCE WAYNE PUT A DEAD JOKER IN A LAZARUS PIT HE MADE HIMSELF.

Bruce justifies it by telling Alfred that if he does this, it means Ra's can't use it later. However, it does not change the fact that Bruce put the Joker in a Lazarus Pit. No I'm not going to be over this ever. Jason might have a point, actually.

Ra's decides, after this, that he wants another wife. And he picks Dinah Lance! But whoops, as it happens, Dinah was tortured and can't have kids (also lost her Canary Cry), way back in Green Arrow, before Ollie died! So Ra's decides to throw her in a Lazarus Pit. It... doesn't go well. Lazarus Madness + Restored Canary Cry = one destroyed building.

Birds of Prey (1999-2009) #33

Oh look! We've got locations! And of course every other Lazarus Pit we've seen or will see except Birth of the Demon is nowhere near any of these convergence points!

So! To recap the current state of the lore: Lazarus Pits are a combination of science and magic. They are an alchemical creation, built on leyline nodes. Generally, they are one-use only, or at least they require centuries to be re-usable. They can resurrect the newly-dead, but but Ra's is very cautious about letting other people use them, probably because he's a control freak, and he doesn't have too many of them left.

We depart the Dixon era and enter... the Nyssa Raatko era.

Nyssa is introduced in Death and the Maidens, with Greg Rucka, who is a huge fan of Denny O'Neil, still sticking pretty close to the original lore.

Here, we see that Bruce has still been on his kick of preventing Ra's from building more Lazarus Pits by buying up real estate where they could be. This forced Ra's to try to reconcile with his daughter Nyssa, who he gave a Lazarus Pit to sometime in the 1700s.

Batman: Death and the Maidens (2003-2004) #1

"But hey!" I can hear you say. "Isn't part of the thing that you mentioned earlier is that they're one-use?"

Well they are! For Ra's.

Nyssa, however, is a smart lady.

Nyssa, at some point in her life, figured out how to make a Lazarus Pit reusable. So she's been getting a lot of mileage out of this baby, and has been since the 1700s.

This story also presents an explanation for why the Lazarus Pit is sometimes green and sometimes orange: Nyssa's is orange and Ra's has green ones. I guess maybe the earlier orange pits that Ra's had were him trying to make them reusable like Nyssa? Hmm.

Batman: Death and the Maidens (2003-2004) #4

When questioned about it, Nyssa tells Talia that there used to be more pits, so he was less protective of them when he gave her this one.

Batman: Death and the Maidens (2003-2004) #6

At the end of this storyline, Ra's is dead, Nyssa is the new Ra's al Ghul, and according to Bruce, she has the only Lazarus Pit left.

Batman: Death and the Maidens (2003-2004) #9

Nyssa pops up again in Batgirl, facing off against Cass, and brags about her special pit again. Cass and Shiva both get dips in it. Fun times!

Batgirl (2000-2006) #69

Yes, the torture hooks are a reoccurring feature of Nyssa's pit. I don't know why.

But wait! A brief interlude!

Jason Todd came back to comics in a storyline: Under the Hood, in 2005, which wrapped up in 2006. We weren't told how Jason came back in the story itself, but a few months after Under the Hood ended, we get Batman Annual #25, which shows Talia shoving Jason into a Lazarus Pit while Ra's was using it.

Batman Annual #25 (2006)

There's no discussion about if this is a weird dip. He's got brain activity again though!

This is revisited again in Red Hood: The Lost Days, but it doesn't really add anything from the point of Lazarus Lore, except that Ra's posits that Jason, having already been resurrected, could have suffered some long-term consequences, unlike literally anyone else who had a dip.

Red Hood: The Lost Days (2010-2011) #2

Anyways, enough Jason! Nyssa gets killed off-page in OYL, so she's gone now, Talia's running the show and oh fuck it's Morrison-era. And Morrison never bothered to read any other Ra's or Talia story because it wasn't Silver Age or something. So... retcon time!

The Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul attempts to retell Birth of the Demon, but with a few retcons. The pits were discovered, not made, being the official point in which the Lazarus Pits become purely magical phenomena, rather than a work of alchemy.

Batman Annual #26 (2007)

Bruce also mentions that the Pits are connected to actual waterways, which is a massive difference from the shallow pits from earlier eras.

This era does however confirm the concept that older bodies, further along in the decay process, probably shouldn't be dipped in the Lazarus Pit. At least, Dick convinced Tim of this fact after a little while.

(Also White Ghost wants a perfectly healthy, alive Tim to bathe in the Lazarus Pit, and this is never explained. Maybe it was a distraction?)

Nightwing (1996-2009) #139

In this era, and the Batman: Reborn era following it, the Lazarus Pits are pretty absent, but the few references we do get from this point forward (including in Red Hood: The Lost Days, which are published in 2010-2011), tend to use the Morrison-era canon that the pits are natural. And also we're back to having a lot of them, instead of just Nyssa's singular one in the Balkans, and, since Ra's has a new young(er) body, there's no sense of urgency to buy up/prevent him from making new pits. Potentially, Dusan/White Ghost took advantage of the fact that the Bats thought Ra's was dead to buy back the real-estate and make new pits, but that's using the pre-Morrison lore. I guess in Morrison era, the Bats just... don't know where Pits are until they find one, and then they blow it up.

We also no longer see any one-time-use limitations. One could assume that Talia figured out the formula Nyssa used to keep the pits reusable and told Ra's, if we're trying to merge the canons.

And that's not even counting whatever is happening in the post-Flashpoint era. Lazarus Planet gives me a headache. Let's not talk about it just now.

Anyways, in short: I think the artificial, single-use Lazarus Pits are way more fun. But anyways, here's the citations to help you decide what YOU think Lazarus Lore should be!

[cowboysorceror]

"What immortal hand or eye / could frame thy fearful symmetry?"

[writing-nothing-but-spilled-ink]

Y'all i have a question do y'all think the Lazarus pit would fix something terminal or like a heart defect within the batman universe would it have that power like if a women were infertile or had her reproductive organs removed and she was brought back by ways of the pit would the pit fix that? Would the pit fix any of that?

[undertheredhood]

broke: the lazarus pit induces psychotic rage on anyone who uses the pit as a price for being healed, and thus they cannot be held accountable for their actions while experiencing 'pit madness'

woke: cass and jason just use 'pit madness' as a humourous excuse to get out of trouble with bruce

[reyskitchensink]

I am so bad at captions, so here, have Lazarus pit Jason

[ditzyredrobin]

Whispers in the Back of Your Mind

A prompt I was gifted recently—

Just Jason’s relationship with the pit. But it’s sentient.

-

Ra’s had called it Pit Madness for a reason, Jason realized, when the toxic green had finally begun to settle, and he was officially back in the driver's seat. After attempts at better coping skills and shit, when it wasn’t riding him, driving his insecurities.

It was like the devil on your shoulder, whispering (or sometimes screaming) at the back of your mind, pushing and prodding and waiting for a slip up, to take charge again and run you off road and back to square one.

Which, in the grand scheme of things, was not bloody optimal, but it wouldn’t happen again.

It couldn’t happen again.

In the last year, its call has become progressively less of a struggle to drone out—less of a scream and more of a mosquito he couldn’t catch, buzzing and humming (although just as out for blood).

Was it annoying? Yes. But intolerable? No.

It sure as hell beat just back from the dead Jason, when he was mindlessly out for blood and destruction. Him or the Joker and all that jazz.

Today, though, was a particularly bad day.

“Damn it,” Jason hisses, nearly dropping the wrench on his face again, trying to work a rusted out bolt from the Batmobile’s undercarriage. Something that shouldn’t be an issue in the first place if Bruce did his damn job. “Son of a mother-“

“Do you want some help?” Uh-oh.

Kill the Replacement, it hissed.

Tim was here because of course Tim was here. Today of all days, the former Robin had to show up, the shittiest of shitty days. Tim fucking Drake everyone.

“Shut up,” Jason hissed under his breath, gritting his teeth.

From under the car, Jason could see Tim freeze. Damn it, damn it, damn it.

“What?” Tim’s voice was half hoarse, although he quickly cleared his throat.

Fuck.

“Sorry, that’s not-“ Not meant for you. “I’ve got it. This damn bolt is stuck because someone has been slacking in the tune up department.” He snaps, shooting a pointed look at Bruce, who was currently perched at the super computer, typing away.

If he heard (which he totally fucking did) he made no attempt to acknowledge it.

Kill, kill, make him pay.

They were past this. Well, maybe not past it entirely, but things were better. They weren’t exactly friends, more colleagues, but Tim had grown accustomed to asking for back up muscle on cases, and Jason, on occasion when to Tim when he needed a little hacking help.

It was a delicate balance, their relationship, but it was getting better.

The biggest issue came down to the Pit (because it was always the Pit). It latched on to his insecurities, his pain, his betrayal, his anguish, all the emotions and thoughts that came from his death.

And Tim? Tim brought back all of that.

While he was okay with Tim now, the Pit didn’t acknowledge their truce. It was still out for revenge.

Normally, it was easy to ignore and find ways of coping, today was just a spectacularly shitty day.

The Replacement must die.

The last bit caused a spike of pain behind his eye. Great.

Jason suppressed a groan and dropped the wrench beside him on the ground. Tim flinched at the sudden sound, muscles going taught as a bow string, ready to kick ass if needed (that was not going to happen).

“Sorry, I didn’t mean to cause an issue. I just thought—“

“It’s fine.”

Tim flinched. A pang of guilt welled up because damn it, he didn’t mean to lash out. He had issues but, right now, none of those issues were actually Tim’s fault.

Deep breath in, hold, deep breath.

Okay, redo.

Jason slowly rolled out from under the car, where Tim was watching, waiting stiff and ready for a fight. At this point, Bruce had stopped typing, listening, like the nosey bastard he was.

Jason held his empty palms up and open, posture relaxed and open. No harm intended.

“Sorry, that wasn’t—that came out wrong, I’m sorry.” Jason corrected, voice low and slow. Tim had a hard, unreadable expression on his face, watching Jason like a hawk. “I’m pissed but not at you. I’m pissed at the old man for not doing his fucking job and making me fix it.” He said carefully, while the Pit screamed. “This has nothing to do with you. I’m sorry.”

A little bit of the tension eased from Tim’s shoulders but it didn’t fully dissipate. Which, fair. If that’s what Timmy could give right now, he would take it. After a long moment of studying him, Tim slowly nodded. “Thanks.”

With that, B went back to typing and Jason looked back to the Batmobile with a sigh. “Still think you could give this bolt a look. My shoulder is sore as fuck from trying to crank it.”

Tim smiled a hair, “Are you sure you’re not just getting weak in your old age?”

“The fuck you just say to me, pipsqueak?” Jason barked with no bite.

“You heard me, or is your hearing going too?”

“You little shit.” Tim grinned.

[yarpharp]

The Lazarus Pit as a concept has been rewritten a million times. I don't mean "they rewrote it so it never does exactly the same thing, which is to bring people back like Lazarus," but a "Every time Jason Todd gets a different writer, the Pit does something different to him." And I'm serious about this. Initially it brought him back and the comics were all "He didn't come back right! He heals faster! He moves faster! He is Big now when before he was doomed to be Small from malnutrition! He is very Angry and full of Manslaughter." But then it was like later in that same comic run "Batman slits his throat with a Batarang and It Seems Like he Dies. But then he shows back up!" Is... Is it implying he healed from a fatal slice because he was fresh from the Pit, or is it that Jason's just liable to coming back from Death? And heck, they tried to explain away his unexplained resurrection with "Superboy Super Punch Time Stream Fuckery" but that always felt very contrite? And God, DO NOT GET ME STARTED ON THE VIDEO GAMES. When did the Pit give him magical powers? Are you telling me my guy's a magical girl zombie now? (Which is kinda iconic but also very abruptly declared. Gotham Knights is a game...) WHAT ABOUT THE ALL-CASTE? Bruh by their definition my guy Jason is their Holy Man Chosen One Who Will Bring Great Change.

... Anyway the Lazarus Pit is weird to me. Why is it called that? Isn't Ra's Al Ghul not Christian at all? Why would he name a magic pit he found roughly 600 years ago (or more, depending on who is writing Ra's Al Ghul) after Lazarus when he could care less about religion? And has his own assassin cult???

Oh and it is actually inhabited by demons. This is canon. He sacrificed his mom or some shit to be the host of the Demon at one point. And apparently Damian can be possessed by that Demon? It's all kinda confusing.

Plot devices are so wack in comics.

[dceuheadcanons]

AU where Bruce Wayne was born in 1947! Usually in my personal version of DC he's born in '97, but let me explain.

The Lazarus Pit is what's kept him alive for so long. He died in training with Ra's Al Ghul once, and it was used to revive him. Only when he got to about 40 did he realise he hadn't physically aged since. He still looked twenty.

His parents were killed in 1957, and in the modern day people hardly remember them or what happened. The members of the JL, including Wonder Woman and Superman, all thought that Batman had been a mantle passed down through different people. How could one human man have lived that long?

Until the eventual identity reveal. No one bats an eye at Bruce Wayne still being alive in Gotham, weird things happen all the time in that city, but the JL are SHOCKED.

[lulurhythm]

I think I drew this back in the spring. Have I really never posted??? I’m so obsessed with this story, y’all. Go read it. I never saw a Reverse Robins story this well done.

[predatoryseasnail]

The Conundrum of Jason Todd's Autopsy Scar

Ok, so, recently I've been doing research on the different versions of Jason Todd and his life, death, and afterlife for reasons, and I stumbled across the discontinuity that is Jason's autopsy scar.

This post by pluckyredhead and this post by dailyjasontodd explain it pretty well, and when ruminating I realized that there is a perfect, literal explanation sitting in front of our faces.

Jason didn't have an "autopsy" if you mean someone performed postmortem surgery to try and find cause of death. That would have been impossible, since he most likely had a quick and quiet burial to hide his forensic ties to the Robin life.

No, what Jason had was experimental surgery done by the League of Assassins. I'm not an expert, but I think part of the reason Ra's al Ghul had an interest was because Jason came back to life for seemingly no reason. (and if that's not true based on current continuity or whatever, it's my personal headcanon anyway so)

Ra's wanted to figure out what made Jason live again. Part of that process would most undoubtedly include exploratory surgery that mimicked an autopsy, but didn't include permanent harm because they couldn't study what made him live if he was dead, right?

The scar is mostly fanon except for that one Robin variant cover, and most of the cause is to make Jason have more angst over his death and/or to freak out the rest of the Batfamily. But how much more angst would they, specifically Dick and Bruce, have when they realized that wait, Jason didn't have an autopsy, why does he have a scar, and then they find out that he has that Y-shaped scar because a secret league of assassins tried to cut him apart and dissect him to figure out how he was alive?

I don't think they would take that very well, to be honest. Especially if they found out that it was when Jason was catatonic, so no, there was no consent or anesthesia either. (and imagine the nightmares that Jason would have, not just of crawling out of his own grave and the Lazarus pit, but of being dissected alive and being able to do nothing to stop it)

TL;DR Jason Todd has a Y-shaped scar because the League of Assassins tried to dissect him, not because he had an autopsy in Gotham.

[merl-out]

does anyone know everything that's contaminated gotham's water supply/everything intrinsically fucked up with gotham that interlocks to create god's perfect hellscape turned purgatory for bruce wayne specifically?

[crowiin]

[dragonpyre]

If the Lazarus pit can restore lost limbs and bones and shit, would that mean it also restores wisdom teeth?

What I’m saying is, assuming Jason had his wisdom teeth out early (like I did), he’d have to get them out AGAIN before enacting his 5D chess revenge plan on Batman

[writing-nothing-but-spilled-ink]

Imagine an au where DC and the crow combine and the way Jason comes back to life is through the crow to get revenge on the joker for killing him and his dreams but after he finishes killing the joker he somehow still gets revived permanently via the Lazarus pit

[undertheredhood]

broke: the lazarus pit induces psychotic rage on anyone who uses the pit as a price for being healed, and thus they cannot be held accountable for their actions while experiencing 'pit madness'

woke: the lazarus pit is trying to protect and help jason be happy, but jason is super unhinged and wants to cause problems