#Jason and Tim

[shyjusticewarrior]

[ghost-bxrd]

Hello, yes, the Gotham Knights cutscene where Jason was trying out his new “rubber bullets” on dummies and Tim stepped right into the line of fire and dared Jason to shoot if he really thought the bullets were soft enough to be non-lethal and Jason recoiled in horror?

I still think about that at least once a day. 🥺✨

[91-1lover]

Dick and Damian- *Fighting using an incredible strategy and hours of training*

Meanwhile

Jason- YEEEET *Throwing Tim at bad guys*

[ryemiffie]

More stuff from my day as batfam incorrect quotes:

Batman: I would never betray you!

Red hood, pointing at Tim: Then what's that?!

Tim: ...

Batman: A complication.

Red hood: A complication?! It's a child!

Batman: Well I see that!

Tim, talking to Jason: Oh you don't have to be offended, he doesn't know how I got here.

Red hood:

Batman: I don't!

Tim:

Red hood:

Batman: It's actually kinda unsettling, how did you get here?

Tim: I followed the voices.

Batman: Oh, I didn't realise we were being that loud.

Tim: No no, not your voices, the voices.

Red hood:

Batman:

Red hood: should we be worried or-

[evasive-anon]

Jason Attacking Tim at Titans Tower

Fanon vs Canon

We've all seen the versions in fanfiction but I'm not so sure everyone's seen the original so if you're one of those batfam fans who doesn't want to read the comics (regardless of reasons) but you are curious about how it actually went this is for you.

What I'm addressing:

What does Jason actually say to Tim during the attack?

Did Jason drug all the other Titans?

Did Jason really wear a Robin costume?

Did Jason slit Tim's throat or call him replacement?

Did Jason actually break Tim's bo staff?

Was Tim crying or scared?

Did Jason write a message on the wall in Tim's blood?

Did Jason's eyes glow green?/Did he follow pit rage mechanics?

Panels and details below. This is a LONG one.

What did Jason actually say to Tim during the attack?

Dialogue in fanfiction during the Titans Tower attack varies based on what kind of fic you're reading but usually its either 'time to clip Replacement's wings' if its staying a beatdown whump 'or oh no precious lil bby why is no one watching you' if its an accidental child acquisition. Not judging either option, but this ain't about them its about the real shit.

Look at these opening lines:

Hey, Tim. I was here first.You're the Red Hood. You've been cleaning up Gotham the easy way. Easy? What do you know about easy, Tim? You had a father that looked after you. You went to a private school, right? You slept in a bed. I slept on the streets, I lived in the alleyways in Gotham. Trying to survive. Until Bruce took me in. I trained as hard as I could. I did whatever he asked. . . at least at first. But it didn't matter. They said I wasn't tough enough to be robin. But today, they say you are. Show me, Tim. Show me what you have that I didn't.

Jason really puts himself out there in all of his dialogue in this encounter, the struggle of having to fight for anything and everything he got in life, even the things that came to everyone else for free, and then being told he wasn't even good enough for the things he fought for.

There's a trope in fanfics that if Jason knew Tim stalked Batman and forced his way into being Robin that it would change how Jason felt about the situation but that's even addressed in this comic:

You were a kid, worried about how Batman was spiraling down into darkness. You spent weeks tracking the dark knight. Solving a mystery no one else could. You discovered who he was behind that mask. Millionaire Bruce Wayne. You were so pleased with yourself, I'm sure that you forgot who you were really dealing with. I know Bruce Wayne. And let me tell you, Tim if someone was trying to find out who Batman really was. If someone was stalking him for weeks. He'd know about it. You can't be that good. I am. He let you find him. And I bet he said the same thing to you as he did to me, didn't he? That you had a talent to make a difference in Gotham. That he needed someone he could trust in war on crime. That you were one of a kind. The light to his darkness. Robin, the Boy Wonder.

Tim saying 'I am' is really such a moment that doesn't come through in text because he is right that he really did do that but I also completely understand why Jason wouldn't believe it.

TBH my favorite part is how done Tim honestly sounds with Jason thoughout all his trauma dumping. Like imagine a grown man who used to work the same part time job as you breaking into your house, dressing up in your work uniform, ranting about how much the job ruined his life while he beats your ass??? God, and he probably had to write a fucking report about it after. RIP Timmy.

What do you want? Do you want to be Robin again? Is that it? You... want to take it away from me? Why in the hell would I ever want that? Don't you get it? When I died no one cared! No one remembered me. Are you completely insane? No one could forget you. I've spent my entire career wearing this mask under your shadow. I had to convince Batman to let me try this. All because he'll never stop blaming himself for what happened to you. You ask me, that's the only reason he hasn't taken you down. He's holding back. But me? No freakin' way. That's the Robin I wanted to see. Still. You do realize the whole idea of training a teenager to fight against something he'll never eradicate is a mistake. It didn't even surprise anyone when I died. When I failed. I failed-- but I'm still beating you. Do you think you're that good now?! Do you really, Tim? Yes.

Tim bashing Jason across the face as he says 'no freakin' way'? *chefs kiss*

Jason drugging the other Titans to knock them out?

Little bit true, Kory was actually just already away from the tower and BB and Cyborg were about to bounce because of the drama going on with Donna's return but Jason like super tazes them and then drugs Raven who he thought already went through enough shit without him knocking her out violently.

Note: Jason says in the text here that he never rolled with Cyborg or BB but like he actually did in some comics so?? The continuity is lie I guess idk.

Did he show up in Red Hood gear or a Robin costume?

Both tbh but he spent most of the time in the Robin costume but bro actually made a stripper rip away version of his Red Hood gear so he could dramatically reveal the Robin costume underneath. I can't believe no one ever includes that in their fics its so fucking funny.

Does he call Tim 'replacement' or slit his throat?

No, this came from a Batman comic with Hush not Teen Titans. That incident takes place in a graveyard not Titans Tower and he calls Tim pretender not replacement.

Does Jason break Tim's staff?

Tragically, no. The bo staff snap would have been iconic. Instead he just takes Tim's staff and beats Tim up with it and breaks stuff. BUT!! He uses it to bust a statue in the TITANS MEMORIAL ROOM which is a place in Titans Tower just for having statues of dead previous titans and Jason is rightfully pissed he didn't get one. Like Tim is correct in saying no one forgot him still but like I would be hurt too if all my friends made cool statues of friends that died and then just left my zombie ass out, like wtf.

Note: I am seriously losing my shit that I have never seen someone bring up the memorial room in a fanfic. That is so much angst material. 😭

Tim crying/ being scared?

Hell no. He's a fucking Robin you know he's being a sassy boy the whole time, even towards the end when he's about done he's still saying he's her and I love Tim for that.

Note: There are a few different times where Tim does a flippy Robin move and then Jason just fucking copies it like flexing that he can do it too, and its just so petty and stupid he's trying so hard to be better than an actual child. 💀I get why in the context of the situation but its still so ridiculous.

Message on the wall in Tim's blood?

TBH I really don't know for sure on this one?? Like its implied that he did but Tim isn't bleeding all that much throughout this beatdown and like we don't see Jason do it just the Titans reacting to seeing it after. It could be Tim's blood, it could be red paint, and it could even be that Jason packed an actual bucket of blood to bring with him to write a message with after he finished. TBH the world is your oyster on this one.

Note: If anyone can find another comic where this event was brought up where they actually clarify it was Tim's blood hmu and I'll update this but I couldn't find any.

Pit rage/ glowing green eyes?

Fanon only at this point in the comics. Jason is seems to be himself and even thinks Tim and his friends are pretty cool at the end, and he's just like reflecting on if he had good friends if he would have turned out better as he leaves.

[salmonchan]

Jason: No, I don't care if no one can look after Replacemet except me. Just drop him near some dumpster, he'll be alright.

Jason 3 seconds later: Welp, I guess this is my kid now. Batman can find himself another, he's quite talented in this.

[cardinalcheerio]

Tim: i had a dream i died last night

Dick: you mean a nightmare right?

Tim:

Dick:

Bruce:

Alfred:

Dick: YOU MEAN A NIGHTMARE RIGHT?!

[youweremadetosoar]

One of my favorite Batfam dynamics in fics is the Jason-Tim interaction that plays out along these lines-

Jason: “Brother! New brother! Bad brother! Why Brother?????!!!!”

Tim: “no! Not a brother, oh great magical one, I am merely a smol orphan.”

Jason: “if not brother, why brother shaped? Obviously brother-shaped child needs a brother.”

*cue accidental brother adoption*

[thecruellestmonth]

How many times has Jason Todd tried to murder Tim Drake?

Answer: Jason Todd has tried one (1) time to murder Tim Drake AND Damian Wayne. And it was not "The Titans Tower Incident".

Sections:

Attack I: Hush by Jeph Loeb

Attack II: Teen Titans (2003) #29 by Geoff Johns (AKA the "Titans Tower Incident")

Attack III: Battle for the Cowl by Tony Daniel

Hush

Did Jason try to murder Tim in Hush?

Batman #617 (writer: Jeph Loeb)

Jason cuts Tim's neck!

Batman #618 [writer: Jeph Loeb]

...Oh, wait, it actually isn't that bad.

Tim could use some non-urgent stitches, but he is still fully awake and walking on his own two feet. Batman sends Tim back to the Batcave unaccompanied, and tells him to continue working on their case.

♢ Verdict: Nah, Jason did not try to murder Tim in Hush. It wasn't theatrical and climactic enough.

(*Side note: Hush reveals that this Jason is supposedly just an impersonation by Clayface. But Batman Annual #25 later changes the lore so that the real Jason did initially appear here. After the part when the real Jason takes Tim hostage, Batman chases him through a dark and rainy graveyard—and the real Jason then takes the opportunity to switch out with Clayface as his body double. It's confusing, I know!)

Teen Titans (2003) #29

Did Jason try to murder Tim in Teen Titans (2003) #29? (Also known as "THE Titans Tower Incident", as opposed to all the other Titans Tower incidents in which Titans died and the Tower was destroyed.)

Teen Titans (2003) #29 [writer: Geoff Johns]

Jason beats up Tim with a bo staff and punches. No blades or guns involved. Tim blacks out. Tim later wakes up and gets to his feet when the other Titans come to help him.

Raven explains, "Jason was always aggressive. He was determined to one day be better than all of us. Especially Batman." This story confirms that Jason has always been an overcompensating jerkwad, and death didn't make him any nicer—he's bullying Tim in a jealous fit to prove he's better than him, and not out of murderous intent.

Teen Titans (2003) #47 [writer: Adam Beechen] - "The guy attacked all of us once just to prove he was better than me!"

Straight from Tim's own mouth—Jason infiltrated Titans Tower just to bully Tim, not to murder him.

♢ Verdict: Jason EXPLICITLY did NOT try to murder Tim in Teen Titans (2003) #29, also bafflingly known as "THE Titans Tower Incident". He didn't cut Tim's neck or use any bladed implements this time either.

Battle for the Cowl

(Everyone's favorite comic! Mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha! Evil Batman time!)

Did Jason try to kill Tim in Batman: Battle for the Cowl?

Batman: Battle for the Cowl [writer: Tony S Daniel]

Jason shoots 10-year-old Damian in the chest, causing Damian to need eighty-nine stitches and a sizable blood transfusion to save his life.

Jason later stabs Tim in the chest, drags his "rotting corpse" into an alcove in his weird sewer creature lair, crucifies Tim's Batman suit on an honest-to-God actual cross, and brags about killing him to Dick.

But when Jason and Dick come unto the "tomb", they found the stone rolled away, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus, Tim's "body" had risen on the third day vanished.

Tim apparently only survived the blood loss due to some weird technique that allows him to slow his pulse to a near-death state.

♠ Verdict: YEAH, it sure looks like Jason did try to kill 17-year-old Tim AND 10-year-old Damian in Battle for the Cowl!

So remember—next time we bring up the time that Jason tried to kill poor Tim, we ALSO need to hold Jason accountable for trying to brutally murder a ten-year-old little boy and all the trauma that totally definitely caused.

Conclusion: Jason would ONLY try to kill Tim as a dramatic cliffhanger to end the second act of a limited event series in which Jason is the main villain.

Otherwise the production just wouldn't be theatrical enough.

See also: Robin tradition by @arabian-batboy

[shyjusticewarrior]

The fact that Jason calling himself a failure literally shocked Tim out of a breakdown

[nana-mizu-shiki]

-....he can have an entire argument with Bruce's eyebrow and win, as far as Jason can tell.

Yeah, Jason thinks. He gets it.

———

It sucks to know your next-door neighbors might have been psychopaths.

This is taken so out of context which just makes it so much funnier.

[ryemiffie]

More quotes from my day as batfam incorrect quotes:

Tim: Damn, you scared me to death.

Jason: Really? I didn't know dead people could talk.

Tim: Yeah well you seem to be talking just fine.

Jason: I- hm..

[leftdreamlandjellyfish]

Tim, on his eleventh cup of coffee: If you water water, it grows. Jason: ...What. Dick: No, no, he's got a point.

[salmonchan]

TinyTim™ was with Jason's gang for a single day and already became new king

[some-rotten-nest]

Someone needs to explain to me why the duo name for Tim and Jason isn't called "Robin Hood"