#dc drama

[fantastic-nonsense]

You mentioned about your cass cain reddit post (read it all and loved it btw) that you knew even more behind the scenes dc drama than what made it into the post. If you’re comfortable with it and still remember, would you like to share some of the behind the scenes dc drama that didn’t make it into that post now? (Ofc just ignore/delete this ask if you’re not comfortable with it I was just curious XD)

Necessary context: this ask is referring to this write-up I did for r/HobbyDrama a little over a year ago, which I offhandedly mentioned to a couple of people awhile back was "9 pages in a Word doc and STILL left a bunch of stuff out."

Okay so most of the stuff I left out, I left out because it was more about Barbara or Steph and the larger situation around how DC handled the Batgirl mantle more generally than it was about Cass and the whole debacle that happened there. Since the post was already getting so long, I chose to just not talk about a lot of that for length purposes and to keep the write-up more focused on a) Cass as a character, b) editorial or creative decisions that actually impacted Cass specifically, and c) top-level issues, since the write-up was geared towards an audience who largely doesn't read comics. I also left a few things out because they're somewhat hearsay and/or "known to be true but technically unverifiable information," mostly for credibility reasons.

Largely, the thing you have to understand about DC's treatment of Cass is that there was a major power struggle at DC between those who wanted Barbara Gordon to become Batgirl again and those who wanted Cassandra Cain to remain Batgirl. The "Babs vs. Cass" fight and viewing Cass's treatment within the context of this massive internal push for Batgirl!Babs is the backdrop through which the majority of this industry drama needs to be understood, because otherwise a lot of the stuff that happened to Cass doesn't make much logical sense.

So, with that being said...here's a list of eight things I either cut entirely or barely mentioned that may not necessarily be directly related to Cass but are nonetheless relevant to the larger debacle of "DC's mishandling of the Batgirl mantle" that impacted Cass's character trajectory. General warning for the immense psychic damage you will inevitably experience if you read this and its length, because between the screenshots and quotes and explanations this ended up being much longer than I expected it to be.

Yvonne Craig: The first major thing that I chose to cut was a paragraph about Yvonne Craig, the actress who played Barbara Gordon in Batman '66, and the near hero-worship that a lot of (specifically middle-aged, white male) creatives, editors, and managers at DC had for her. Basically, the broad strokes of this issue is that due to their weird obsession with Yvonne Craig's Babs–which is probably due to them having childhood crushes they never got over–several men with power within DC (including Dan Didio himself) shared a sentiment that Barbara was the "one true Batgirl" and no one else but her should ever be Batgirl. Basically: if Barbara Gordon couldn't be Batgirl, Batgirl as a mantle wasn't worth using at all. This led a concentrated decade-long effort to put Babs back in the Batgirl cowl, which obviously influenced the various attempts to push Cass out of the role.

I chose to cut it for two reasons: it was more related to Babs and why there was such a coordinated effort to make Babs Batgirl again rather than Cass as a character unto herself, and it's largely "very well-respected and often-repeated hearsay, but still hearsay." The prevalence it had within the rank-and-file creatives at DC is suspect, but we know that several prominent creators, editors, and upper management shared that perspective (even if they largely don't talk about it on-record). We know this sentiment absolutely existed; Scott Peterson, for example, talked a bit about how "crazy he was for Yvonne Craig" in his interview about creating Cass. It's just not a particularly well-sourced discussion point and was more suited for a write-up on Babs than it was a write-up on Cass.

Batwoman's Costume Design: I barely mentioned Kate in the write-up and only in relation to how Cass's book was cancelled to make way for the theoretical Batwoman solo book that never happened, but there's actually a lot of really interesting industry drama behind Kate's creation. Specifically as it regards Batgirl...Kate's costume was originally meant for Barbara, per Alex Ross:

"The design I did was initially for the proposed idea of a new version of Batgirl, so it was intended to be another stab at bringing back Barbara Gordon, or having the new Batgirl be costumed as a tribute to her, maybe even with a red-haired wig." -Alex Ross, "Giving Batwoman Her Look"

Ross and Paul Dini had been planning to revive Babs as Batgirl for years, but Bat Office Head Editor Denny O'Neil was staunchly against it so it never happened:

"Paul Dini had this idea of putting Barbara Gordon in the Lazarus Pit to revive her…spine, I guess," Ross said. "At least, that's what he would've done in the television show had they continued doing more cartoons, and her spine was broken the way it was. I thought it was a great idea, and we pitched then-Batman editor Denny O'Neil with these drawings of that costume design.........and that went nowhere. Denny shot it down, because, according to him, everybody loves Barbara Gordon as Oracle and as a handicapped character. The theory was that DC didn't have enough handicapped characters, so they weren't going to do anything with Barbara as she was. And the design went into the drawer." -from "Giving Batwoman her Look"

When O'Neil retired in 2002, the floodgates opened and we started seeing a concentrated creative/editorial push to make Babs Batgirl again. Of course by that time Cass was already well-established, so Ross's design was later re-purposed for Kate Kane's Batwoman and the power struggle largely manifested in a gradual sidelining of Cass from major Bat events (starting with Hush, as I mentioned in the write-up) in an effort to pave the way for putting Babs back in the cowl. Which brings me to the next piece of industry drama I cut.

War Games: There's...a lot of industry drama behind both the conception and execution of War Games. Most of it isn't particularly relevant to this answer or the original write-up, but there are two things that are. One, the fact that Stephanie's death was mandated by editorial and everyone involved knew it was coming. This is what prompted Steph's temporary takeover of the Robin mantle. Depending on who you believe, either Robin writer Bill Willingham, Batgirl writer Dylan Horrocks, Detective Comics writer/Bat Office editor Andersen Gabrych, or Dan Didio himself suggested that Stephanie become Robin as a story trick for readers and a sort of narrative "consolation prize" in preparation for the fact that they were about to kill her:

“The whole way through it was planned purely as a trick to play on the readers, that we would fool them into thinking that the big event was that Stephanie Brown would become Robin but we knew all along it was a temporary thing, and she was then going to die at the end of this crossover story.” -Dylan Horrocks at Auckland Writers and Readers Fest in 2011

"I knew coming into the Robin series that Spoiler was doomed to die. And I wouldn’t have done that, but that was already locked in even before I came on Robin, so I had no point at which to say you shouldn’t do this. But, I did I have this hair-brained idea that, well, if she was going to die — she was such a frustrated character…I mean, everything she wanted out of life she pretty much didn’t get. So, can we give her one little reward before she dies and let her become Robin for awhile." -Bill Willingham for Word Balloon in 2012

"You know, me and Stephanie, we go way back. The story with Stephanie Brown goes, they came to me as Executive Editor with the "War Games" story, and said 'we're going to kill Stephanie Brown.' I knew Stephanie Brown for who she was, and said, 'I don't know, if this is going to be the big ending to your story it doesn't feel big enough at the time, because the character wasn't strong enough yet.' So I said, 'Why don't we make her Robin for a short period of time, build some interest in her, and then we kill her!'" -Dan Didio for Newsarama

Steph becoming the major collateral damage of the immediate post-O'Neil editorial era would later set the stage for why she was viewed as an acceptable compromise choice to become Batgirl during the Reborn era.

Two, the writer of Cass's solo at the time, Dylan Horrocks, was so discomforted and offended by the concept of the story (and particularly its treatment of Steph) that he deliberately kept Cass out of the event's "main action" as much as possible during her tie-in issues. This has been widely reported for years and while Horrocks himself rarely goes on record about it, he has made some comments that more-or-less confirm it:

Horrocks: "I'd write [Batgirl] very differently today....for me, it was...complicated. One day I'll write about the experience properly. The War Games event was deeply depressing." -Dylan Horrocks on Twitter in 2012/2013

Sidenote: War Games was actually the last straw for both Ed Brubaker and Horrocks; Brubaker was fed up with all the editorial mandates/executive meddling and Horrocks was frustrated by the Bat Office's misogynistic and grimdark story direction, so they both left right after (Brubaker for Marvel to write Bucky Barnes' resurrection and Horrocks for indie comics).

So why are Horrocks' writing choices relevant to DC's subsequent treatment of Cass? Well, as I stated in the original write-up, it heralded the beginning of a "there can be only one" era for female Bat characters. DC could handle the idea of several male Batfam members running around at the same time but apparently more than one female Bat at a time (regardless of moniker) was just too much for them. It was also the last major Bat event to feature Cass in any significant capacity until her post-reboot reintroduction. So while she was largely removed from the action for good reasons, War Games stands as a haunting precursor to the direction DC was headed with her character: sidelined and replaced in favor of characters editors were planning on using (Kate), could agree on using (Steph), or liked more (Babs).

Batgirl (2008)'s Sales Performance: I cut this bullet point largely because it's ultimately a footnote in the larger saga that was Cass's limbo years. Basically, after the resolution of the Evil Cass arc DC reassured fans that they "had plans" for Cass as Batgirl. This later manifested via her appearances in the Batman and the Outsiders (2007) run and (eventually) a new solo mini. Unfortunately, Batgirl: Redemption Run didn't perform nearly as well as DC hoped for a variety of reasons: many Cass fans swore it off due to it being written by Adam Beechen (the writer who wrote her heel-face turn in the first place), the first issue was poorly written, the story wasn't particularly engaging, etc. The tepid reception and subsequent poor sales of this mini were then used to retroactively justify booting Cass out of the Batgirl mantle entirely during the aftermath of Bruce's death in Final Crisis and the Battle for the Cowl event.

However, DC was already planning on taking Batgirl from Cass and giving it back to Babs at the time, and it likely would have happened even if the mini had done well. The way we know? This image foretelling the events of the Reborn era and Blackest Night was teased in the final issue of Dick's Nightwing solo, as was this one from the end of Babs' Birds of Prey run. That's not Cass kissing Dick, folks; that's Barbara Gordon, Batgirl once again. This planned choice was, as I stated on Reddit, later confirmed by Dan Didio in an Editor's Column during Steph's Batgirl run, who said that at one point Babs was "as close to being Batgirl again as Dick was to being dead in Infinite Crisis" (which is to say, very nearly a done deal). I suspect that only a last-minute internal writer revolt–particularly from Gail Simone, who we know was a vocal supporter of keeping Babs Oracle–stopped it from happening.

Cass's Absence in Battle for the Cowl: I mentioned this in the original write-up but largely glossed over the particulars. In-universe, Cass had just been adopted by Bruce, was fully Batgirl again, and was largely reconciled to the rest of the Batfamily after the Evil Cass arc. And yet her only appearances during the Battle for the Cowl event (and the aftermath of Final Crisis more generally) were cameos in the main book and a main role in the BftC: The Network tie-in oneshot. Literally the only thing she did for the entire duration of BftC was create the Network, which helped the Bats deal with Gotham rogues, and take out a few criminals alongside Huntress. So you have DC continually downplaying and sidelining Cass in a story where she reasonably should have had a major, co-starring role. This event also marked her final appearance as Batgirl, which leads into the next issue I cut.

Batgirl (2009)'s Marketing: this one's very complicated and doing it justice would involve tracking down a lot of old ads and interviews revolving around how DC solicited and marketed this book in the lead-up to the reveal that Stephanie Brown was the new Batgirl, which I simply didn't have time to do at the time of the original write-up and ultimately would have just sidetracked the whole thing, but in short: readers didn't actually know who the protagonist of the new Batgirl solo was going to be when the title was announced. DC had cancelled Birds of Prey and announced both a new Batgirl book and a miniseries called "Oracle: Search for the Cure" (which later became Oracle: The Cure). So Babs' return to the cowl was being solidly teased, but Cass was still Batgirl and showed no real signs of wanting to give up the mantle.

DC's marketing and editorial teams played up this ambiguity by baiting both Babs and Cass fans in order to drive sales: this included teasing ads, early issue solicts that deliberately obscured who was wearing the cape, and a refusal to confirm who the Batgirl of the upcoming solo title would be during interviews and con panels. They chose to heighten the ambiguity even within the title itself: early covers of the run often obscure Steph's hair, eyes, and sometimes even her whole face; the first two issue covers even feature Steph in both Cass's and Babs' Batgirl suits to heighten the confusion. So was the Batgirl of the new title going to be a newly "cured" Barbara Gordon, a second shot for Cassandra Cain, or someone new entirely?

Obviously, none of these things happened. As we all know, Stephanie became Batgirl. The choice to make Steph Batgirl was a compromise decision, as Didio mentions in his editor's note (linked above):

"After long discussions it was agreed that Oracle had become such a strong character there was no sense going back. And since we wanted to make a change, Cassandra no longer seemed right for the role (Not to worry Cassandra fans; plans are afoot, in a very big way, for our favorite non-lethal assassin in 2010). As for Wendy, Bette, and Misfit, none felt strong enough for the position. That left us with the one choice we all agreed on, Stephanie Brown......from the time of her death to the outcry for a memorial and ultimately to her return, there is no denying that her character had connected with a portion of our fanbase and, more important, connected to the Batfamily. It just seemed to make sense that she was the one, and given her history and ties to all the members of Batman's world, the potential is there to make this new Batgirl the one fans will be speaking about for a very long time."

So as previously stated, Steph's treatment during the War Games era ultimately set the stage for her to be the compromise choice for the new Batgirl; she became this interim buffer character because everyone at DC was fighting over Babs vs. Cass and she was the only one everyone could agree deserved the title, and she thrived in that role over the next two years. And a new Birds of Prey book was then announced in the aftermath of Oracle: The Cure and Blackest Night, so Babs' prominence as Oracle survived for another two years until the New 52.

But Cass? Well...Cass unceremoniously handed the Batgirl mantle off to Steph, seemingly fucked off for no discernable reason, and showed up in a grand total of six issues across the entire Batbook slate over the next two years while being largely written out of the Batfam's history and having her reasoning for leaving Gotham retconned from being a choice into being an order from Bruce. Which segues us directly into the next piece of drama that I somewhat glossed over in the original write-up.

The Reborn-era Editorial Erasure Edicts: Bryan Q. Miller, the writer on Steph's Batgirl solo, was under strict editorial edict to basically not mention Cass or include her in the run if he didn't absolutely have to. For example, when he asked editorial if there was a reason why Cass left Gotham, they basically told him "she leaves. why? Because she just does, so your book can exist. Come up with a reason to make her leave and then don't use her."

This era is still pretty opaque in terms of what we know about what various writers were and weren't able to do with Cass, but we do know that Miller specifically was disallowed from featuring her in-person in Batgirl and highly discouraged from mentioning her in general. However, he noted on multiple occasions that he liked Cass and would be happy to use her:

Babs and Steph are the core of this title, no doubt about it. While we'll have another passing reference/flashback to Cassandra soon, I'm leaving the rest of Cassandra's story to whichever lucky duck gets to write her elsewhere in 2010. As for Batwoman, I'm leaving Kate in Rucka's capable hands for the time being. -Miller in an interview with CBR in 2009

If at some point the story I’m telling feels like it can only be told with Cassandra as a part of it, then believe me, I’ll try to find a way to work her in. As it stands currently, however, Cassandra’s fate and future are not in my hands. -Miller in an inerview for Broken Frontier in 2010

Had the book continued past Issue #24, we know that Cass would have had a recurring role as Black Bat in the present day as well as being featured in a Batgirls time-travel story, teased through one of Steph's Black Mercy hallucinations in that final issue. Other than that, we still have no real idea to what extent Cass's presence would have been allowed in the Batgirl book had the New 52 not happened.

Now, I will note that some of the omissions of Cass during Steph's run were seemingly his choice. He's mentioned that he left Cass off of Steph's infamous "Batfamily whiteboard history lesson" cold open from Batgirl #15 on purpose, for example:

The reason she didn’t make the white-board history lesson for Wendy was simply that I didn’t feel it appropriate to poke fun at her. Steph has a smirky little good natured time editorializing the Bat family tree. To suddenly have a serious/tribute panel in the mix would have gotten in the way of the tone of the opening. Now, that’s from the writing standpoint. From a character standpoint, Steph drew for Wendy what she deemed to be the pertinent players on the Gotham board and their connections/histories, given her role as Proxy. You’ll note, she also didn’t mention her own role as Spoiler (though she just couldn’t RESIST drawing that adorable little Spoiler with the broken hearts over in the Tim/Robin section). -Bryan Q. Miller responding to a fan letter from Caitlin in 2010

It's certainly possible that the editorial edict surrounding Cass's presence in the book also impacted his decision to leave her out of the history lesson. We simply don't know. However, the above response is the only statement he's ever given on that issue and we've yet to hear anything to the contrary.

Outside of Batgirl, DC also went to considerable effort during this era to erase Cass's importance both as Batgirl and to the Batfamily more generally. From being basically excluded from every Bat book except Tim's globetrotting Red Robin book to descriptions like these:

Black Bat: one of several former (and temporary) Batgirls, the wonderful Cassandra Cain has adopted a new Batman Inc. identity as the Black Bat, operating out of Hong Kong. -Batman. Inc (HC Edition)

It was not a fun time to be a Cass fan.

Elsewhere, we know that Gail Simone was actively campaigning editorial to let her use Cass in a significant capacity in her relaunched Birds of Prey book. There was also a substantial rumor at the time that Cass would be taking the White Canary mantle from the villain Simone introduced in her opening arc (see this twitter thread for more on that). For varying reasons related to both DC's general treatment of Cass at the time and a hesitance to give Cass to Gail specifically (which I'll elaborate more on in a moment), neither of these things ever happened.

We also know that Scott Snyder loved Cass and tried to get DC to let him write a Cass story on multiple occasions–a struggle which continued throughout the early reboot years and eventually resulted in the creation of Harper Row, as I mentioned in the original write-up. He eventually managed to convince editorial to let him write Gates of Gotham, which co-starred Cass in a significant role for the first time since 2008 and ended on a good note...and also wound up being her final appearance in comics for nearly five years.

Other than Snyder and Fabian Nicieza (who wrote the majority of Cass's few Reborn-era appearances in Red Robin), critical darling and editorial favorite Grant Morrison was the only other writer who was allowed to handle Cass. They're the one who gave Cass the "Black Bat" codename in Batman Inc. #6 and supposedly wanted to do a Cass and Steph team-up later on in that book. Unfortunately, because of the impending New 52 reboot they were ultimately only allowed to use Steph in "Leviathan Strikes" (and even her ability to be Batgirl in that final appearance was up in the air for awhile, causing the book's artist make Spoiler!Steph sketches for the story just in case editorial nixed her appearance as Batgirl).

So going back to Gail Simone for a moment, why wasn't she allowed to write Cass in Birds of Prey? After all, she was one of the few female writers in the comic industry, and a successful, well-renowned one at that. She was writing a women-led book helmed by Barbara Gordon that had featured and guest-starred a wide variety of DC's female heroes over the years and was actively asking to use the character. Well, even besides the various editorial mandates sidelining Cass and keeping writers from using her, there was another problem.

Gail Simone's Proposed "Christian Conversion Arc": The year is 2006, we are still pre-Evil Cass arc, and Gail Simone has been asked by DC management to pitch what she would do with Dick and Cass if assigned either Nightwing or Batgirl to write. She never actually turned in a Nightwing pitch, though apparently she had pretty strong ideas, but she did turn in her Cass pitch. And what did Gail Simone come up with?

Cass saves a Christian minister from a robbery, discovers Christianity, and becomes a hardcore convert who quotes the Bible and talks scripture with gang members while wearing a white outfit and being called "Angel of the Bat" as she protects Gotham's homeless and marginalized residents. No, really. That was her pitch.

I can't even begin to explain how bonkers this idea is and how many problematic elements are baked into it both conceptually and in the inevitable execution had the pitch actually been greenlit. I could talk about how Gail presents a fundamental misunderstanding of Cassandra as a character throughout her description of the pitch. I could talk about how unsuited this kind of arc is for Cass more generally given her stories up to that point. I could talk about the racist history of Christian missionaries in Asia and the awful implications of Cass apparently needing to find God to look after Gotham's most vulnerable residents and be "genuinely happy for the first time." I could talk about how the Batfamily already had two sincerely devout Christian characters in Jean-Paul Valley and Helena Bertinelli and forcing that narrative onto Cass was doing nothing new or novel. I could talk about the problems with Gail, an atheist, deciding that this was an arc she felt qualified to write for any character (much less one like Cass).

Instead, I'll simply say that this failed pitch and Simone's consistently poor, exoticized handling of other Asian characters like Cheshire and Lady Shiva likely contributed to editorial's hesitance to hand her permission to write Cass during the Reborn era, and that I ultimately cut it from the Reddit write-up because I felt like including it would derail the post from talking about what happened to talking about "could have beens" (since this would have theoretically happened in place of the Evil Cass arc). It leaves Cassandra Cain as a truly good, kind person attempting to do good and save everyone she can rather than the racist caricature of a villain that we ultimately got; that's about the only good thing I can say about it.

......I'm sorry, everyone. I was going to do one final entry and talk about the Rebirth-era storytelling decisions and editorial edicts but I got to the end of this one and found I just couldn't do it anymore. I'm the embodiment of the Ben Affleck and Hayao Miyazaki smoking memes right now. I'm so tired, y'all. I'm so tired.

There's infinite amounts of racist, sexist, and ableist industry drama bullshit that I could cover related to DC's handling of the Batgirls and Cass more specifically and no write-up or additional posts will ever be able to sufficiently cover any of it with the depth, attention, and outrage it deserves. There's always more to talk about. There's always one more piece of awful bullshit to drag out of the shadows. There's always one more cut in the thousand fans have already talked about over the past twenty years. I could write a full-length book featuring several currently non-existent tell-all interviews with various creators and likely still not reach the bottom of the barrel. And the things that will likely never be public knowledge far outnumber the things we actually do know about DC's shitty treatment of Cass (and by extension Babs, Steph, and every other woman associated with the Batfamily).

And while things are better for Cass now than they were then, we're still far from any of the girls being treated well. Unfortunately, we still have a long way to go. One day, I hope this won't be the case.

[roseworth]

batfam fanfic writers love to use the time jason broke into titan tower as a vehicle for angst but they never include the fact that he did it in an adult sized robin costume. where is your appreciation for the lamest thing hes ever done

[hughmanbean]

Loving Threats

Inspired by a song and its remake. But I am trash at syncing lyrics to storybeats.

Danny and Jason met in the ghost zone when Jason was dead, but he forgot it all coming back to life. When the two of them were together, they went through the entire song and dance (literally) of asking each other out.

I'm serious. There were like 10 different musical scenes with varying themes. It was Fenton Romance at its finest. And Jason's old school romance heart was certainly played a large part too.

It was their love language. Dramatic acts, vague threats and all.

Post revival and reconnection with the Batfam, Jason spots a familiar face. A flood of memories wash through him, and with it a bout of giddiness. Though he's currently dressed as Red Hood, Danny'll be able to tell who he is and keep quiet. Just have to greet him in a way that he'll recognize.

---

Danny is out taking the kids for a walk. Dan was grumpy since he wasn't allowed any ecto chips, for both his health and as punishment for severely beating a guy who tried to mug Danny without permission yesterday. Ellie is quite cheerful, since she's going to visit the Crocodile and Zombie sewer-dudes when Danny's not looking.

All of a sudden, Red Hood, casually wielding a gun, approaches Danny. He makes an overly familiar gesture, wrapping an arm sideways around Danny's waist. He whistles under the hood, a faint green glow from the white eyespaces.

"Well who do we have here? You look half dead, honey."

Danny looked at him. Horrible pick up line? Check? Thin veneer of confidence? Check. Zero self control around Danny? Check.

Jason. The rancid ecto signature is new, though. Honestly, not surprised he's a crime lord now.

"Well, you know how it is. The kids have been running me ragged. And you sure haven't been any help."

Danny puts on an innocent smile. Jason sidles closer. A few bystanders watch them with varied expressions.

"Well you don't need to worry about that now. How about you and I go somewhere more private?"

---

"A crime boss, huh?"

Dan is raiding the fridge. Ellie is watching a fight on TV.

"It was a... necessary step. I promise I would've visited you sooner if I had known."

"It's fine. What else happened while you were gone?"

"Well..."

[glow-in-the-dark-death]

Just For Him

Knowing Danny's family and his time as a hero you would think that Danny would grow up having a similar job, and so did he honestly!

That was until he put on a pair of skates and stepped onto the ice.

Maybe it had something to do with his ice core that made his movements on the ice feel more natural than any other kind of ground under his feet.

Once he was on the ice he felt like a completely different person, confident in every single step, in the way he would spin and jump- using a bit of his ghostliness to gain more air time in his jumps.

The entire sensation on that ice was freeing,

invigorating,

peaceful.

It was just him and the ice under his blades.

It felt like everything in his life was for someone else, his creations his protections all of it that he would gladly give to those who need it and to his loved ones.

But when was the last time he had anything that was just for him.

For him to enjoy

For him to find unrestrained happiness from

Just for him

So no, while it was surprising to everyone around him including himself at the direction his life turned to he couldn't be happier.

He now traveled a lot for his competitions & own fun, with a very happy Ellie tagging along to support him and enjoy what the world had to offer.

" We have arrived at our destination. Welcome to Gotham."

~

Just an idea

[zealouswitchwerewolf]

DP AU where the box ghost is actually someone from the future that came back as a ghost to try and warn Danny before all the major battles. The problem is that ghosts are mostly ruled by emotions and since he isn't directly connected to all the battles as they happened, his memories get fuzzy at best so whenever he warns Danny, it's either because there's about to be a world ending event or because someone's cat got stuck on a tree (and anything in between)

So when Danny joins the JL as Phantom they ask him about his rogue gallery. He tells them all about the ancients he fought and skulker and the GIW, even his parents, though he only says they were mad scientists with a huge bias.

And then, after he tells them about the "plasmius incident" they ask whether he thinks Vlad is the one that's caused him most trouble and Danny goes quiet for a bit and looks thoughtful for way too long before saying in a quiet voice "no, that's actually the box ghost. He's always warning me about something. It's terrifying"

The JL are concerned. What could be worse than all the Eldritch terrors Danny has described? They try to ask for details but whenever they bring the topic, Danny gets this lost stare and goes silent until they change the topic or snap him out of it. It's kind of unsettling. So they leave it be. Even Batman doesn't push it (he would rather not traumatize the kid more, thank you very much, he's also wondering if he can adopt someone that's technically dead, asking for a friend).

And then the box ghost shows up at the watchtower. They all come running when they hear the ominous "Beware". Batman activates all the alerts. Boxy just throws a box at him, then leaves. Batman calls for a meeting, most of the heroes were already in the watchtower anyway, he describes the incident to phantom.

Danny: ah, that was just his way of saying hi. I guess he wants to start haunting you too. Should be fun :)

Batman: hn

The JL: ?!?

Danny: Don't worry, I'll ask him to be nicer next time :)

Flash: was that... Supposed to be terrifying? He just threw a box, right?

Danny: 🤷🏻‍♀️

[alyakthedorklord]

Au where the Drake’s don’t die (they’re just bad parents) and as Tim gets older they start spending a SLIGHT bit more time with him to train him to take over Drake industries. They start trying to set up a marriage to a daughter of a good family for Tim, but he’s dating Bernard, who is not only a man but from a “subpar family.” They demand he break it off.

Tim refuses to break up with his boyfriend, threatens causing a huge scandal and making out with Bernard in public if they engage him to anyone.

Jack and Janet threaten to disown him, bc they think Tim’s been living the soft cushy house (manor) life hidden away from the world on thier money this whole time, so they’re all, “You’ll come crawling back, you need us and our money, this will teach you a lesson.”

Tim, who has been practically independent since he was four, has extensive robin training, access to zetatubes, powerful friends (and enemies) in every major city across the world, at least eight fully stocked safehouses in Upper Gotham alone, a personal bank account under his own name with combined Drake and Wayne allowance, at this point is only in Drake manor when his parents are here (a week with an important gala every four months maybe) and has LITERALLY had a discussion with Bruce about a custody battle due to negligence so he can call himself a Wayne on paper not even a week before, just laughs.

“This is Gotham. I’ll get Bruce Wayne to adopt me.”

That makes them mad. His parents show him the disowning paperwork and kick him out. Tim doesn’t even run to Wayne Manor, he meanders over while tapping at his phone.

Bruce already had the paperwork ready. The Drakes don’t know what’s happening before it’s too late. Tim is a Wayne. They try to challenge it but they relinquished all rights and Tim has receipts of parental neglect and also he already has a room at the manor.

Tim takes over as Wayne Industries CEO (the sooner the funnier) and immediately starts being awesome at it, smug ass grin in every photo, the other Waynes cackling in the background as the Drakes seethe and thier stocks plummet. The next gala they go to, Bruce makes absolutely sure to turn to Tim and go, “So son, when is your boyfriend coming over for dinner?”

Bernard comes back from a family camping trip to find out his boyfriend started an upper crust civil war for the right to date him. And also he’s invited to Wayne Manor. Wtf Tim.

[flamingpudding]

Not my Circus

A/N: I hate my brain and it's suckish timing...

Danny was a circus kid. He knew that, and so did his parents. Well, the once that took him in when he was five. He knew he had a loving family before the Fentons. Yet he doesn't know himself why he never put in more effort to return to them. No, wait, he had an idea what his five years old mind could have been thinking.

If Freakshow and his mockery of a circus had never shown up in Amity. Then Danny might have pushed the thought of his original family to the side forever. He had been a foolish kid back then, reckless and tempramental, unlike his older brother. He had tried to follow into his parents' and brother's footsteps, but he wasn't as graceful or acrobatic as they were. It was irony really with how much he liked flying and doing tricks in the air now. But still he remembered having a lot of frustrated fights with his brother about his inability to be like them.

When he got reminded he started to do a bit of a more serious research again and when he found out about his originals parents death half a year after he was first declared missing from the circus as well as his older brothers having gotten adopted too, he had dropped it all again. Pushing all of that back into the deepest depths of his mind again. His older brother was doing well. There was no need for him, for Danny.

That went well until Jazz went to university in Gotham and convinced him to go there to collage too, when he sort of forcefully retired from being a teen hero. It went well for a couple of years until his mid twenties.

Because despite Gotham being a city way bigger than Amity, there were still chances of you running into certain people.

The moment he entered the coffee shop and saw the others face, everything he had pushed aside in his mind came right back to the forefront of his mind.

How he foolishly trained in acrobatics behind his families back after another fight while they were moving towns and fell off the wagon.

How he had felt like he enjoyed not feeling presured to be like them and didn't put too much effort into returning to them when he was with the Fenton as well as thinking that his elder brother was probably happier without a stubborn little brother.

How when he looked them up he dropped it just as fast when he learned about their deaths and his elder brothers adoption.

He blinked wide-eyed at the man that stood before him a teen next to him while he held two cups of coffees. He, too, was staring at Danny frozen.

Now Danny had several options of how to handle the situation. And he most likely didn't choose the best one at first as usual. Because what he did in response at seeing Richard 'Dick' Grayson was to turn tail and run even using is invisibility and intangiblity.

What Danny didn't know was that Dick's first, thought, was someone cloned him and not that his missing brother from his days before the Waynes was back.

Thus a game of mouse was started...

[im-totally-not-an-alien-2]

Breaking news! Vicky Vale leaks footage of Brucie Wayne following the new teenage rogue 'Phantom' around the city saying "Please let me adopt you 😭"

Phantom refuses and saying he's a supervillian not a lost puppy.

Turns out this was a part of Bruces plan however as Phantom now sees people all over tv talking about him and the Waynes and already considering him a new member of the family. They're even asking when there will be a face reveal. There was a reason he was wearing a mask! He. Is.. A. Villian. What about that do these people not get?!

Sure he doesn't kill people. Or hurt people at all really. Or steal from small family owned businesses. Or...yeah ok. Just because you're a bad guy doesn't mean you have to be a bad guy, ya know? Apparently Gotham doesn't.

Cause they insist hes just a very confused hero

[incorrectbatfam]

Tim: Can you please keep it down? I’m trying to think.

Damian: Don’t worry. Trying anything for the first time is hard.

[some-rotten-nest]

Thanksgiving at the Fenton house was... Something. Danny did his best to avoid it, in short. It wasn't exactly Christmas; but it wasn't nice either.

Gotham was a good place for him to escape to, right? A flight there and back once Thanksgiving was over, no issue.

He didn't mean to get kidnapped by billionaires for an even weird Thanksgiving, okay Jazz?!

He'd just been out and about, doing nothing really, when this person came up to him and began to drag him by the ear, talking something about how "If I have to attend this, so do you!"

Being startled, he couldn't string the sentence he was looking for together and ended up being dragged to a---... Manor. Because of course it was. Rich people.

"So, how's everything?" A different black haired, blue eyed boy asked, eye bags heavier than Danny's.

"Oh! Actually, Jay, I left my shirt at your place when I got shot, any chance you brought it with?" The other black-haired, blue eyed guy asked, twirling his fork in his hand.

And he was looking at Danny.

Thank Ancients, the oldest person-- parent? He didn't know-- jumped in, sounding so tired, "Can we not talk about work at the table?" Then turned to Danny again, "And thank you for joining us this year, Jason."

"I had to drag him here!" The blonde who dragged him here Interrupted, "Why don't I get any thanks? Discrimination, Bruce. This is discrimination."

"I'd appreciate it very much if you didn't shout at the table, Miss Brown," The very oldest person said, placing a plate on the table.

Alright-- enough was enough, Danny needed to leave. This is weird, and he did not want to know why black-haired, blue-eyed guy #2 was shot either.

"Sorry, Alfred--" Blonde (Miss Brown?) said casually.

The sound of the door opening was as loud as a cannon to his ears, but to everyone else at the table, it was normal. Or they were expecting someone else that wasn't who they thought Danny to be.

"IM ONLY HERE FOR THE FOOD--" A voice shouted, "-AND NOTHING ELSE."

Black hair, blue eyes #3 came in, a white streak matching Danny's own in his hair.

All eyes turned to him. Fuck.

[filobooster]

dc stuff based off some dc fan audio dramas ive been listening to + anticipating… which you should totally ask me about…

[thevoidstaredback]

Saturday's at Wayne Manor are family days. The whole weekend is reserved for the family to come and go as they please, but the biggest events are the Game Days on Saturday from 11:00 to 16:00 and Sunday Dinner at 18:00.

Every Saturday is a Game Day, but the third Saturday of each month is Competition Day. The kids all choose their favorite games, and everyone competes against each other. It's very rarely missed by anyone, but there have been times when someone has had to tap out for one reason or another. Alfred keeps track of who's missed how many days. Barbra keeps the tally of who's won what and how many times. At the end of the year, on December 31st, the scores are announced.

Sunday Dinners are sacred. No one ever misses a Sunday Dinner. The last person who did Jason is still getting subtle jabs and looks from everyone and that was a year ago and he had a very good reason, thank you very much! Everyone is always present for Sunday Dinner because everyone still has a room and the option to stay the night between the two days. Most usually take up the offer, but there have been extenuating circumstances that have pulled someone from the Manor.

No matter any of that because everyone is here and everyone is staying the night. That means everyone is patrolling Gotham tonight. Almost everyone. Batwoman has offered to take over Bludhaven for the night, so that's where she's gone.

Bruce plans to present his idea of messing with his coworkers when everyone gets back to the cave after patrol. All his kids know who they all are, having been trained by him, so there's no risk or accidental reveals on his part. In actuality, the kids thought of it like a game. They even had a folder for it on the Bat Computer and everything!

Yes, that night, after everyone returned to the Bat Cave, he would gather his Chaos Gremlins and invite them to mess with the Justice League with him. He'd also try and get Alfred in on it. Family bonding, and all that.

Though, making his kids sweat was its own form of amusement for him. It was 3:00 when everyone finally returned. They all ran their own routes, watched over by Oracle, and their own times, but everyone was always done no later than 3:00. It was a rule that the Gotham Rouges had yet to pick up on because Batman went back out until dawn more often than not.

Anyway, Bruce has been the first to get back and had put on an act of being upset. He usually kept his Batman persona with his suit, so he was rarely ever this stoic while he was Bruce Wayne. He hid his smirk as he sat at the head of the meeting table in the Cave, waiting for his children to change and sit with him. Duke normally was asleep by now, but he'd asked the boy to be there, letting him in on the harmless prank while they waited for his siblings and Stephanie to arrive.

Once everyone was seated, he waited a total of thirty seconds, meeting eyes with every one of his children, before he spoke. "I'm very disappointed."

Dick's eyes narrowed ever so slightly. He'd known Bruce the longest - aside from Alfred - and had likely picked up on something the second he saw Bruce and Duke at the table. "At who?"

"The Justice League," It was amusing to watch the tension melt off of all of them when he shook his head, "We all know who all of them are, as well as everyone who trained under them, but they don't know who we are."

"Except Wonder Woman," Jason pointed out, "She figured me out when I came back."

Fair, Bruce supposed. Jason was always Diana's favorite. "I think they need some help," he said, "A push in the right direction, so to speak."

Stephanie had a smile on her face that promised mischief. "We're not telling them, right? 'Cause that'd be no fun."

"Course not!" Duke yawned, "B said we'd give them a hint."

"What did you have in mind, father?" Damian asked, stoic as always, but matching the gleam in Cass's eyes.

"We invite them to the Bat Cave," he said, "Show them around a bit. The only exits we tell them about, though, should be the Lane," How the ground vehicles get in and out. "-the Zeta Tubes," Obviously. "-and the elevator. But, we don't tell them what's upstairs."

Alfred seemed very amused from where he had taken his seat at the other end of the table.

"From there," Bruce continued, "We invite their civilian identities to the next Gala. Meet them. Hint about the Cave without actually saying anything. If I know Clark as well as I know I do, then he'll, at the very least, piece together that the Bat Cave is under Wayne Manor."

"And if we play it right?" Dick's grin was manic, "They won't connect who we are."

"Won't that be suspicious, though?" Tim spoke up for the first time, "They may not have put things together yet, but they aren't stupid. They're heroes. If we give them the pieces, they're gonna piece them together."

Damian was the one to answer him. "Batman and Bruce Wayne hate one another, though there is a grudging acknowledgement and respect."

"Give them the right pieces, with a few from the wrong puzzle, in the wrong order, we could totally have them fooled!" Jason explained.

The group shared looks between each other. Nothing needed to be said because the looks and movements said everything.

Alfred smiled and shook his head fondly. "You may plan this in the morning. For now, go to bed and get some sleep."

Part 1 Part 3

[wosstue]

Sometimes I wonder what Gothamites think of the different Robins.

This kind of spiralled from Gotham Tok on my fyp all the time, so here’s how I see the progression of how Gotham sees its Dark Knight and Boy Wonder’s:

Pre-Robin Batman:

“Batman isn’t real”

“Batman’s a cryptic”

“Batman is a concept made up by the Gotham PD to scare off criminals”

They don’t believe he’s real. The only people who have actually seen him are hospitalised or in prison, or mentally deranged enough that no one would even believe them.

Enter Dick Grayson:

“What do you mean you saw colour… in the Gotham sky? You mean the red tint every night?”

“Batman and Robin on the paper? No that’s definitely staged. Why would there be a child running around in a leotard, and what, do you think Batman is human?”

They don’t believe again. But they see him grow up, they see meta’s in Gotham led by him. And they accept maybe Robin is an actual person running around with the bat that… might be a person, I mean he has ‘man’ in the same but who knows?!

Enter Jason Todd:

“What do you mean Robin got younger? I thought Robin was in San Francisco now.”

“There’s actual candid shots of the bat and the bird now… maybe it is more than a wives tale.”

First clear pictures on the paper and on the news. People start to actually believe both Robin and Batman exist. But they also knew Robin was in san Fransisco, and taller than 4”10.

Enter Tim Drake:

They don’t notice a single difference between the extremely short 16 year old Jason, and the 13 year old Tim. Goons do however notice the kid wears more armour now and has trousers… good for him.

Enter Stephany Brown:

Any civilians that actually saw her thought it was a costume and a badly picked one, dressing up as a vigilante in Gotham is waiting for someone with a bone to pick.

Enter Damian Wayne:

“Is… robin shorter again… and since when does he stab criminals?”

They once again can’t get a clear picture of Robin. He’s always in the shadows! And he’s fast. Also multiple villains swear he can sound like all sorts of different people. Why can he sound like Amanda Waller?! Goons continuously shit their pants when he just decides to fuck with them and sound like whatever villain they were hired by.

[beesarekindaswag]

Prompt : The Mean Girls of Wayne Enterprises

Hear me out…. Mean Girls but make it DCxDP.

The public personas that the bats present, modeled after “Brucie” Wayne are the perfect templates for Mean Girls shenanigans.

Imagine : Our favourite ghost boy has decided to venture out into the world after making sure that Amity would be safe and secure (perks of being the recently crowned King). Danny knows he’d never pass the physical tests to be an astronaut but that doesn’t mean he can’t at least achieve part of his space dream. He’d done his research, very thoroughly at that, and overall it was Wayne Enterprises that came out on top. Their aerospace department was miles ahead of the competition - presumably something to do with Bruce Wayne literally being the one funding the Justice League (and if rumour is to be believed, the OG sugar daddy for a certain Bat).

Disregarding Danny’s personal feelings about the JL, the chance to create technology that will be used in SPACE, for space exploration and understanding was too good to pass up.

Just the thought alone filled him with a sense of contentment. Thankyou space obsession.

Which is what had lead to the current situation - an internship at Wayne Enterprises itself. How he landed it, he has no clue - sure, he’s got some smarts (much more than he’ll give himself credit for) but his grades had suffered from his years of literally saving the city (and by extension, the world). Perhaps it was fate? Or more likely, a meddling time god…

Danny wasn’t complaining though.

Only three hours in to the position and he was barely containing his excitement - literally, the fulfillment of his secondary obsession, regardless of how second hand it might be, created such a buzz in his core. He was having to consciously stop his more ghostly attributes from shining through - not even metaphorically shining, damn you LED freckles (yes we’re using the concept of Danny’s ghost from reflecting his love of space - constellation freckles and all)

Now though, he had been released to break in the cafeteria. There was a panicked moment of ‘oh shit, where do I sit?’ But thankfully, his (half) life was saved by one of his new coworkers calling him over with a friendly wave.

“Hey, Daniel, right?”

“I go by Danny but yeah, thanks for the save there” a awkward laugh at his own words, “didn’t expect it to feel like high school all over again”

There’s polite laughter amongst the table and the conversation flows over to casual small talk. At least, it does until out of nowhere, all eyes jump to the doors.

Enter : The Plastics.

Richard Grayson - the dumbest guy you’ll ever meet.

“Once, he asked me why aster isn’t the opposite of disaster”

Timothy Drake - knows everything about everyone.

“That’s why his eyebags are so big - they’re full of secrets”

And the queen bee, Damian Wayne.

“Once he called me an uncultured swine… it was awesome”

(I don’t know what’s better - Damian aged up to match Danny or tiny Damian being Regina)

What follows is a comedic story: Danny meeting the three, them assuming he’s going to be out of touch being from the Midwest (he is but only in the sense that his version of normal is Fenton dumbfuckery) , him eventually getting past their public personas by just not giving a shit for their drama - he grew up with the QUEEN of mean girls, the Wayne boys have nothing on Paulina Sanchez.

Just, Mean girls Waynes… that’s it - that’s the post.

[aro-in-danyl]

DP X DC Prompt

Damian, who’s never seen danny before this moment: we’re twins.

Danny, choosing chaos: triplets, actually. I have an identical sister. 

Damian: what.

Bruce, listening in from a roof: Talia hid THREE children from me?!

Talia, on a different roof: Father stole one of my children?! >:(

OR ALTERNATIVELY

Danny: Quadruplets actually. You owe so much child support

Bruce: what-

Dani & Dan: pay up bitch

[cryptocism]

You think just anybody can qualify for a crush on Superboy? There's a vetting process. You have to submit an application to the board.

I continue to draw the silly bits of Frequency (this one is from Chapter 5, if context is a thing you like to have)