#bruce wayne is a bad father

[magnoliasandarson]

Actually, my Roman Empire is that in comic canon we never truly get a happy Batfamily, and 99.99999% of the time you can trace the fault directly to Bruce Wayne. I am frothing at the mouth waiting for DC to give me a Bruce that doesn't a) beat up his kids b) emotionally manipulate/abuse his kids c) pick and choose the kids he loves

I don't want a comic with Bruce Wayne naked? I want a comic where Bruce Wayne isn't a horrible father. Man is Greek Mythos levels of Bad DadTM so much of the time. I get that it will never be sunshine and rainbows, but I am begging for the bare minimum (see list above).

The Batkids deserve so much better and it breaks my heart. Being a bad dad is not integral to Bruce's character, stop making it a defining trait. This is the hill I die on, and I will make it everyone's problem.

[oldmannapping]

Nope, I’m ranting about Batman’s parenting again.

Mr Wayne. You adopted a bunch of troubled kids and that’s swell but sir

The bar was so low.

A kid with severe trauma who had a gruelling manual labour job at 8 years old and whose best friend was an elephant.

A kid who was traumatised and homeless.

A kid who was severely neglected.

A kid who was abused and raised by literal assassins.

I could go on but BRUCE. MATE.

All these kids were self-reliant, used to taking on responsibilities above their age level, and fucked up.

Did you have your butler make them a boiled egg and then not die horribly in front of them or beat them?

Congratulations, you’ve exceeded their expectations!

Bruce I’m still so salty at you about skipping the toilet training stage for all your kids. These were fit, healthy, self-reliant older children with no concept of a healthy parent-child dynamic.

Bruce, the bar. Was. In. The. Basement. Of. The. Batcave.

And you still keep failing to reach it.

[ahfrickenfrick]

every time i see a bad parent bruce wayne tag, i simply open up wayne family adventures and reread everything 🫶

[geekishfangirl]

I can’t view Batman/Bruce as a real hero

So I’ve gotten into DC recently, or more specifically I’ve gotten into the Batfam, and the more I learn about Bruce Wayne the harder it is for me to look to him as a hero.

I’ll preface all this by saying I have consumed very little DC content, so if something I say is not actually canon pls let me know.

It started when I learned that this man seemingly has an absolute no kill rule. Not a “I try to avoid killing and only do it when absolutely necessary” rule, but a “I refuse to kill anyone no matter the circumstances” rule. I honestly hate this because it’s not effective in any way. Take the Joker for example, Batman has to fight him over and over again because they simply cannot seem to keep that man in prison and Batman won’t kill him or let anyone else do it. I think this is because he wants to believe that anyone can change, and they can, but just because they CAN doesn’t mean that they WILL. People have to choose to change and the Joker has had like 30 chances to do so, yet he continues to kill innocent people. How many innocents have to die before someone acknowledges that the Joker will never choose to be a better person and finally decide to do what’s necessary to protect everyone? They either need to find a way to keep him in jail or just take him out.

This got worse when I learned about Jason Todd. Here you have a poor boy taken in by Bruce, who idealizes him and views him as a father, and when he gets kidnapped, tortured, and murdered by the Joker he dies alone. When he is brought back to life, he’s mad at Bruce, not because Bruce didn’t save him, but Bruce didn’t kill the Joker to avenge him. Because Bruce didn’t love him more than he loved Justice. Hell, even on his grave, “A good soldier”. I’ve seen ppl say that maybe he didn’t say son because he didn’t want to erase their family ties and the kids never took his last name and sure, I get that. But putting a good soldier instead? He didn’t have to do that. Jason wasn’t a soldier, he was a little boy. It seems like Bruce forgets that about the Robins sometimes. (None of this is even getting into my feelings about Bruce taking in multiple children and having them fight crime, literally risking their lives every night but then this rant would be even longer)

And apparently Bruce fucking decks Dick because Dick was asking him why he let him become Robin before he was ready? Bro cannot take any criticism for his actions I swear. I mean, even if he never officially adopts them (I’m very confused on that tbh) he does still view them as his kids. He still helped raise them. After all, they were all underage when he met them and took them in. So to straight up deck your eldest and tell him to get out literally right after your other kid was murdered solely because he questioned you is actually wild.

Then you have the whole batarang incident, which just makes me question his morals more because he’s got the whole “no killing whatsoever” thing going on but then decides, “I won’t kill the man who murdered my son and countless other innocents, but I can and will slit my son’s throat and leave him for dead.” Like, HUH??? Also, didn’t Dick accidentally kill the Joker once and Bruce went out of his way to REVIVE HIM? Honestly feels like Bruce has some weird relationship with the Joker cause he seems to care about him more than anything. LET THAT MONSTER DIE!

I saw someone say that they thought the “no killing” thing wasn’t effective but was accurate to Bruce’s character because his vigilanteism isn’t actually mainly about helping but about punishing himself for what happened to his parents. And if you kill the villains when you need to, you can’t keep punishing yourself through fighting them. Like a self-sabotage thing. I thought that was super interesting but it would also just go along with him not being a truly effective hero, cause he won’t make the hard calls that are sometimes needed.

In conclusion, while I am sure Bruce has done good for people, it’s hard to see him as a truly effective hero (or a good person/father for that matter) when he does stuff like this.

[one-bat-day]

I feel like all three of these fit together

That first cover is gorgeous too

[fanfic-lover-girl]

Problem with Jason Todd

It's been a while since my last Batman opinion piece and I still have more to say about Jason Todd. Disclaimer: I mainly know Jason Todd through the Red Hood movie and the alternate scenarios that were released that I watched on Youtube, and glimpses of comics and the fanfic/review reactions to them (eg RHATO #25).

I love Jason-centric fanfic. I am an angst addict. From the fanfiction and/or comics I have seen there are certain handling of Jason's relationship with his family:

The problems are swept under the rug. Jason reconciles with his family and everything is peachy after some talking and apologies.

Jason cuts the toxic batfam from his life. He may get married (eg to Artemis), adopt a bunch of stray kids and/or just build a new family away from the Waynes. Very cathartic to read.

Jason and the batfam reconcile properly. They hash things out sincerely and Jason is brought back into the family. Or they hash things out and Jason moves on with his life.

Jason and the batfam do not reconcile properly. The family still does not fully trust him and treats him as the black sheep. Basically, they are civil but Jason is just backup, not a true family member.

All of these can be satisfying stories. It just depends on how you view the batfamily. The comics seem to be the culprit. You have ones where Bruce is a loving father and others where he is severely abusing his robins. Like in RHATO where he nearly beat Jason to death! How do you conciliate these 2 views??

Some actions can be explained. For example, I read a nice headcanon in a fanfic for the "good soldier" inscription on his display case. Basically, Bruce used it as a reminder about how he failed Jason as a son, instead treating him as a soldier. However, no amount of headcanons can reason away Bruce slicing Jason's throat to save the Joker. How can Jason smile and laugh again with the man who did something horrendous like that to him??

As for Jason himself as the character, I hate saying it but he has nowhere to go. He became popular as the anti-hero Red Hood, with all the baggage of his trauma. But all the comics and shows do is just keeping beating him down. What's the end of his character arc?? Let me know because I do not see it from any analyses I have read. He just loses more people and continues to get treated like trash. He's just there for angst, nothing more.

Another problem is Jason has nothing for himself really. He's stuck between Dick and Tim's robin generation. Red Arrow and Starfire were Dick's friends - he has none really of his own (until Bizarro and Artemis). None of his codenames are his. Robin was Dick's and Red Hood was the Joker's I believe (so messed up).

Red Hood is a stagnant character. People (including myself) love him for his trauma but there's little beyond that. The best thing for Jason IMO is for him to leave Gotham, or the batfam at least, and forge his own path. Did the comics do that for a while? Maybe, but not sure. Or Jason stays to help Crime Alley but has rock solid boundaries with them.

I love Jason Todd. He has suffered so much and he deserves a happy life far away from the batfam. My man deserves some peace and quiet so he can heal from all he's been through.

[ghostbsuter]

Damian was 10 when he was shipped off to his father.

He was 10 when he finally decided enough was enough, packed his stuff, called Mara, and the ball went rolling.

The moment Talia left the mansion, the DNA test confirmed, and Bruce emotionally compromised, did he finally move.

He'd stared his father down, felt nothing when he stood up and mild annoyance bloomed when his father asked– demanded– where he was going.

"You're a fool if you believe I will stay here." He spat, eyening the man in disdain.

It became very apparent that Damian wasn't what Bruce thought he'd be, what Talia thought he was.

"Your mother entrusted me with your safety–"

"I don't need protection. Mother wouldn't care if I stayed or not." He blinks. "Where is the cave? I wish to use the computer, I have people to contact."

Reluctantly, Bruce shows him the way, questions of who and why, and the plans he apparently had were asked.

Damian answers with vague wordings and enough open spaces for interpretation. Words greatest detective, he can figure it out himself without damian spelling it out for him.

When they do arrive in the batcave, Tim Drake— Robin— was sitting at the computer.

Huffing, Damian shoved the entire chair away from the table, taking its place and started typing.

"W— hey! What—? Who?" Tim looked between Bruce and Damian, despite being sleep deprived his eyes caught on the similarities, mouth dry and mind calculating.

"Does Dick know?" Is all he asks, leaning back and watching the younger boy work.

"Not yet."

A heavy sigh.

"Silence," the boy huffs, annoyed. "I'll have to make a call."

Glaring daggers, he pulls out a old burner phone, pressing the single number saved inside and waits.

"Damian."

"Hello, brother."

('Oh. Did he have another?' Tim wonders, watching Batman's face, blank like a paper sheet. Nothing. It feels like all his efforts of bringing the man back were just flushed.)

—

Or in simpler words:

Danyal al Ghul, the first successor of the demons head, born with his twin Athanasia al Ghul, to be the future of the league.

They were reborn with their former memories, stuck in place, constantly watched and trained. Manipulated. Weaponized.

All for a man playing immortal.

They'd only started planning when two more children came into the picture, Damian and Mara Al Ghul.

Danyal now Daniel "Danny" and Athanasia now Eleanor "Ellie" Nightingale took matters into their own hands and separated to take the kids in and end this.

End the league. End the cycle of whatever this, this cult is, and take over.

In many universes, Ra's al Ghul does not die, always returns, wielding his people like mere weapons.

In this universe, Danyal al Ghul is acknowledged as a traitor, killer of the Demons head and Older Brother, borderline father even, to his tiny brother Damian al Ghul.

In this universe, he raises Damian instead of Talia, shows him the cracks of this careful manipulated picture and listens when Ellie tells of her travels to this tiny child with a sad sad fate.

In this universe, Ellie takes in their tiny cousin, shielding her from the cruel eyes of a man not worthy. She trains her, shows her the ropes and takes her along when she leaves.

In this universe, Damian al Ghul and Mara al Ghul live a good live, protected by the twins of old souls and have a somewhat normal if not very complicated childhood.

[bruciemilf]

Do you think Thomas and Martha would’ve made Bruce take self-defense classes of any kind? Or personally teach him self-defense

Martha DEFINITELY did, but a much softer version than what she had growing up; Kanes didn’t hold back on their grueling physical education. They practically own the “How to raise a troubled badass” guide.

Thomas is the exact opposite; He says Bruce wont need to worry about that. Why would he, with his father right there?

And then Thomas wasn’t there.

Bruce deeply understood how much his father loved him after seeing the state Gotham’s in; he also realizes how much more he needs to care.

[spacedace]

Snippet/prolog thing from a DP x DC fic that lives almost entirely inside my head outside of this & a few other bits.

Please feel free to take this as an overly long prompt haha

If anyone wants context to this let me know and I'll be happy to info dump at you lol

-

The kid had been eleven the first time John Constantine met her.

A little ghost girl, too small for the crowns and dominions that were rightfully hers, wandering the world alone and unattended because to stay in one place would drive her mad - or worse. He didn’t think himself as having a particularly soft heart, but there was something about little Stella Phantom that grew on him - a bit like a mold, he liked to explain. Maybe it was the way she swore like a sailor and kicked a demon in the low hangers with a feral grin the first time he met her. Maybe it was just how lonely she looked, small and slight in the large world she was so obsessed with exploring.

She had a family. A Grave of her own that worried about her, but who couldn’t follow her on her constant travels no matter how much they wanted to. Proof that being some of the most powerful beings in existence wasn’t enough to prepare you for parenthood.

Somewhere along the lines she started following John around. Interested in what he was doing, where he was going, who he worked with. It hadn’t taken long to get her folded into JL Dark. Zantanna had blanched when he’d shown up with little Elle, pulling in the big wigs from JL Light to argue about the ethics of involving a child in their work. As if Supes and the Bat had legs to stand on with their own brood so often in the thick of danger. Elle was safer under his watch than she’d be under the loose oversight the Titans had or whatever fresh hell was going on with Young Justice but hell if anyone would listen to him on that front.

He lost the war when she met Superboy Jr. and Robin V.

She’d adored them from the start, delighted at having children her own age around to spend time with. They formed a little team, working together here and there, then more often as they got older. She still worked mostly with JL Dark, but she was growing up. Spreading her wings a bit.

Elle was seventeen when the Bonds first formed. The spider-silk thin threads finally winding themselves into the heavy binds that spilled out of her Core and reached out for anchoring in the boys. It was sickeningly sweet, in the way puppy love always was. She was too young for Core Bonds like that to settle, of course, in the way children were always too young when they fell in love the first time. It was normal though. Ghost children the Realms over made Bonds only for them to fade or change as they grew, almost never anchoring to anyone til they were full grown.

She’d blushed as red as Marvel’s suit when she realized John could see them, stuttering and embarrassed. He’d teased her about it for a long time, about how much she’d grown up, how much trouble she was going to cause, how he was going to have to fight the big bad Bat and his pet boy scout when she inevitably dishonored their poor, innocent sons. It was entertaining, endearing.

He waited for the Bonds to fade or shift. Weeks. Months. Years. As she turned nineteen, he started to wonder if they would stick around. If in another few years they might strengthen, begin the slow process of anchoring.

She was twenty-one when her boys - calling themselves Flamebird and Phoenix now - started dating each other.

The Bonds remained, steady and solid and painfully unanchored.

John stopped teasing her about them.

They hadn’t changed to accommodate platonic bonds, nor had they faded any. Their tendency to tangle around her like snare was another point of concern. Core Bonds weren’t meant to cause difficulty for the ghost they were born from, and they certainly weren’t meant to wrap around the ghost’s limbs and body in painful loops like that. They weren’t supposed to hurt.

When she was twenty three he started suggesting it might be time for intervention. The irony that he of all people would be trying to get someone to take steps to cut out the thing harming them was not lost on him. Nor was the way the fond feelings he had for the girl had skewed decisively paternal over the years in a way that his younger self would have mocked him for endlessly.

He felt better about broaching the subject knowing that her Grave had been suggesting the same thing. That he wasn’t overstepping the bounds of whatever odd partnership they’d developed over the years. John was, he had very reluctantly come to accept, the girl’s mentor if nothing else. His job was to teach her and guide her, not be her parent.

No matter what his old, battered heart might try and suggest.

Even still, he couldn’t help but be concerned.

She was twenty-five when they got temporarily launched into that broken, bleak world. When they met the Elle and Flamebird and Phoenix of that horrible dimension.

The three alternates’ bonds were anchored completely, tying the triad together in threads of silver and green. Not even Other-Elle’s complete, sickening deterioration into something cannibalistic and feral had been enough to break them. He can’t imagine how much it must have hurt to see that, for his girl to glimpse a world where something she’d longed for for so long happened, only for it to seemingly be at the expense of reality itself.

He helped cover for her, after their two groups had been mixed up and separated for the night - or what might be called night in a world that no longer had any light to make those kinds of distinctions in time. When she came back with the Flamebird and Phoenix of that world, after their little separation from the larger group he kept her two boys misdirected. Distracted Nightwing and Zantanna so they didn’t go asking too many questions he knew Elle wouldn’t want answered. The Bat John was helpless to do much about, but thankfully the big brooder seemed too intent on the desolate, lightless world itself to notice the way Elle’s gaze was going distant, bittersweet at the edges.

He didn’t know what, exactly had happened in the hours she was gone. He could guess, from the way the Other-Phoenix and Other-Flamebird looked at her, the way she avoided her boys. Loneliness and desperation made for an easy slide into bad decisions. John might just have to admit that Zantanna had been correct, all the times she’d said he was a bad influence on the girl. Not that there was any surprise there.

Elle’s Bonds were even more of a knotted mess than before. Offered something so close to anchoring only to find no purchase. They twisted about her throat like a noose now, ready to strangle the life out of her one day.

He signed off on her leave of absence when they finally made it back to their home dimension.

Anyone else would want details to write down. Would want to know the specifics of why and for how long and a whole mess of other details she either wouldn’t or couldn’t answer. He’d get his ass roasted over the fire for the mess the paperwork was in, but that was fine. He’d endured far worse for far less important reasons.

Personal leave, he’d written.

Duration of leave: indefinite.

Reason for leave: None of your fucking business, Bats.

They shared a cigarette on one of the high catwalks in the Watchtower watching dawn break on the world below. Grateful to see the sun and stars again after those two days in utter blackness. They didn’t talk about her Bonds. About what happened. About how she hadn’t talked to her Boys since coming back. Just stood and smoked. He pretended not to notice her tears. She pretended not to notice his. Neither of them had ever been any good at goodbyes.

When the time came she bumped his shoulder in thanks - for the cigarette, for the company, for the years of friendship and family - before turning and stepping through the bright purple door standing impossibly in the middle of the walkway.

He glimpsed the green of the Infinite Realms and the distant shape of her Lair beyond. A world of worlds, paradise to one that never stopped, always off to find something new, something never seen before. It was against all odds that she’d even stumbled upon this one in the first place. A small speck in the crushing infinite.

When the door closed it did so slowly, a painful whine and a soft, mournful click all that marked her leaving.

John watched it bleed out of existence, and wondered if he’d ever see her again.

Six months later, the stars started to disappear.

[babygirl-but-a-boy]

Let Your Father Die

[devine-fem]

No because Damian angst could be so much more interesting if it wasn’t “Oh, thank GOD, Damian’s white saviors took him away from that awful, cruel and wicked pseudo mom Talia, oh thank god that he has Selina Kyle now!” and instead talked about how Damian was proned to violence since the moment he could walk and make noises with his mouth and was taught never to feel emotions THEN it goes to oh, son, you’ve made the choice to be with me so let me show you how to cope with that… with more violence as a pattern of unhealthy coping mechanisms instilled in you and me at a young age and you can show emotions! buuuut you have to wear this suit and take on a whole other identity then when out of the suit you have to wear a facade so no one truly knows about the suit in the first place and this won’t be confusing for a child at all! … Bruce Wayne.. what? And oh, this guy who thinks you’re a responsibility and generally vexing is going to take you under his wing because he thinks no one else can deal with you otherwise and you get a little close but eventually he hurts and abandoneds you as well but now you’re on good terms because the narrative has decided that no one can wrong you except the only person who loved you at first (Talia, the only person who thought it’d be a good idea to take you out of their lives in order to keep you away from this exhausting path of violence and masking) but it’s fine! … Okay, Dick… and then you’re fighting with your brother because he’s jealous of you taking his place and he calls you worthless, unworthy of love and your mantle and unworthy of your fathers trust… Okay, Tim…? Does anyone wanna love Damian for Damian and not love him only when its convenient to their own personal mission please? No?

NO ONE REALIZES THAT ITS NOT ABOUT DAMIAN NOT BEING AN AL GHUL! BEING AN AL GHUL DOESNT MAKE HIM EVIL! ITS NOT ABOUT HOW HE’S TREATED BY HIS FAMILY. ITS THAT CHOICE!! Damian needs to make more choices for himself instead of living by some destiny and going by whatever everyone else expects of him! His heart is good and worthy and he doesn’t need to be an Al Ghul or a Bat to figure that out! He needs to make more choices to be the best version of himself he can be but we’re too busy demonizing the Al Ghuls in fandom and in comics to realize that!!!

[zeynyukine3011]

Spoilers from Batman - One Bad Day : Ra's Al Ghul

The parallels 😭😭 hugging and calming their father after the Lazarus Pit

I absolutely loved this comic. How Ra's was trying to make the world a better place, how he just cared so much about the wolves that saved him when he was a kid. How even though he hurt and kidnapped Damian, how he still cared for him in his own sick way. (I absolutely NOT excusing his behaviour nor saying that he was a good grandfather. It's just that he cares for his family, ok??? Its obvious.)

Bruce was so furious when he found out that Damian was kidnapped. Seeing him as a protective dad is just gold. He died (again, what's new?) and was resurrected by the Lazarus Pit. It was so heartwarming to see Damian caring for his father. He waited for three months for Bruce and look how he is hugging him 😭😭😭 I think Bruce's worst fear (one of them at least) is seeing Damian become a cold-blooded murderer. He wants Damian to be a hero.

Talia, the queen, was beautiful as usual. I just really wanted to see her interact with Damian and Bruce.

Damian *holding his father as he bleeds and dies in his arms* : New trauma unlocked 🙃🫠

[rjnonymous]

I like to think that one of Bruce's biggest character flaws is that he will let his children get away with anything. Especially when they find it funny because how is he supposed to be mad at his children when they laugh like that? And it's a fxking headache in the hero community, because while some might find their antics funny, others don't and they can't do shit about it because the brats will snitch and of course fxking Batman is not going to discipline his kids

[benbamboozled]

I would actually kind of like the “becomes a doctor and takes over Leslie’s clinic” story…for Damian.

NOT because I think it would be ~ethical~ or idk whatever-the-fuck.

I just really love the concept of Damian having this “I HAVE A BIG IMPORTANT DESTINY” backstory/lineage/bloodline …

…SON OF THE BAT, and all that jazz…

But when he connects with Gotham and the people in it—because Batman should be connected to the people he’s protecting—Damian realizes that he doesn’t actually WANT “his” destiny.

And it’s not about rejecting Batman or his father or his mother or anything like that, but instead about taking what he’s learned and what they’ve given him and shaping it to fit himself.

[bluegarners]

bruce and dick as a reflection of daedalus and icarus; none of them ever truly escape the labyrinth they built

[littlefankingdom]

People: Bruce was awful about Jason when he was dead, insulting him and slandering him.

Me: Or, maybe, he was written by people who have been vocal about hating Jason (they wanted to kill that kid so bad) for people who hated the kid (you know, because he wasn't Dick).